Where does "rule of thumb" come from? | FACTUAL FEMINIST
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- čas přidán 1. 06. 2014
- Feminist analysis of the term, "rule of thumb" usually refers to an alleged law where a man could beat his wife with a stick no wider than his thumb. But is that true? And if not, how did the term originate? The Factual Feminist answers these questions and more.
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Where does "rule of thumb" come from?
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In the event this video uses Creative Commons assets: If not noted in the description, titles for Creative Commons assets used in this video can be found at the link provided after each asset.
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I have followed the Rule of the upward Thumb on this video.
When I tried to find a law that permitted men to beat women, I was unsuccessful. I even looked up "rule of thumb" and found nothing. All that I found were laws that prohibited domestic violence against women.
Thank you Christina. There are millions of men who cannot publicly speak in support of the facts because of their gender and the rules of society. You speak for them when you speak the dispassionate rigorous truth to these powerful mythologies. Your own gender and credibility give you a rare opportunity to speak truth to power, and we the powerless in this context deeply thank you.
Powerless ? That's pathetic grow a spine dude
I think the greatest current feminist myth that needs to be addressed- and one that I've addressed extensively on my own channel- is the current myth that there's some sort of conspiracy by men to keep women off the internet.
There isn't, it's just that women can't cook and type at the same time!
Joking aside, men and women are by-and-large (up until facebook and Google+) able to conceal their true forms behind anonymity. If feminists are so quick to assume that an Anon is a male, then that is a projection on their part is something they should explore in themselves.
Anonymity also means that IRL feminists can act as woman-haters to create 'proof'' of whatever false conspiracy theory... They like that, but not the ability for men and women to say whatever they truly think if it disagrees with their Dogma.
Indeed. Its a shame what they can get away with.
They think that men are always conspiring against women.
You know, because penis.
They don't get that we want to conspire WITH women because penis!
I have not bumped into one single feminist claiming that "there's some sort of conspiracy by men to keep women off the internet."
You could probably point me to some, but the fact that I've been on the internet for 20 years without seeing this claim says to me that you are attacking a straw man.
"The greatest current feminist myth" -- I'm sure you can find a myth that actually exists -- such as the one addressed in this video -- if you dig a little. And I bet the Factual Feminist would be happy to help you debunk it.
You give me hope in humanity again.
Thank you for making these and keep on keepin' on!
It is just an expression, which might be around for a long time, in German we have two similar expressions, one is Faustregel (rule of fist) and we have Daumen-Schätzungen (estimation by thumb), so the origin of simply using bodyparts to measure things seems not to far off, especially when also considereng that many older measurement systems used units based og bodyparts, like the ell and foot. So, that some guy might have used that expression in a context of wife beating doesn't make it originating there.
www.waywordradio.org/rule-of-thumb-origin/
www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/rule-of-thumb.html
It is _precisely_ like your second example. A means of estimating using the thumb, which was approximately 1 inch long.
Yes and it's meaning comes from the fact they used to measure an inch by the width of the thumb as a ruler. This gives you an approximate rule hence the meaning of the saying!
Thank you for maintaining the ideal of "Academic Scrutiny knows no bounds". Everything and everyone can and should be criticised whenever possibly, especially when they're wrong.
What a fascists you woke crazies are to have the audacity try try to police speech terms words this is America we have FREE SPEECH. No we're not listening to a pack of Grammer woke fascists telling us what words and terms to us and I am An AMERICAN citizen You loons belong in Communists China with your ridiculous fascists word policing . GFO
@@ruthsturgeon4979 8 years too late but okay.
Appreciate people who are both articulate, and have taken the time to perform due diligence on a subject. I have also found your other lecture quite well written and orated.
I appreciate how you dug into this, I have been trying to clear this up in my head looking into the etymology of it.
The subject in the video is very interesting. I especially enjoyed your thoughts on origin, which I also share on my own channel. The main idea of a rule of thumb speaks to me and is something I talk about in my own videos. This video has been a valuable piece of content to me. Thank you for sharing.
I'm not one to usually comment, but I must commend you for being a voice of reason, intelligence, and sanity among the conversation involving social values in America and across the world. I found out about you through my research into the current version of feminism, and I've thoroughly enjoyed every video so far. I'm even going to purchase your books for further study.
Media, news organizations, and the internet are so full of reactionary people from both sides of the argument. You see the anti-contemporary feminist group go out of their way to shame those that subscribe to the current form of feminism, and you've already addressed the concern with contemporary feminism and its shaming of many things. I myself was baffled and appalled to discover what had become of the women's equality movement from the 20th century.
I really want to say that you are a highlight of rationality among a reactionary culture. I hope to see you and the AEI continue its excellent work.
Keep up the good work, Christina.
I have certainly learned a lot from this! Thanks!
You learned some bull shit ...this woman is on a fem mission
I find it hard to believe that people could actually dislike this video. It must either be click bots that try to disguise bot boting by bundling others in or it is the likes of Anita Sarkeesian and Rebecca Watson along with their zealots. Keep up the good work in spreading the truth.
Excellent debunking work as always, CHS.
God, that's so true. I've tried to correct some falsehoods and faulty logic in my feminist friends, and in one case, a friend of 10 years called me a racist and a sexist and blocked me because of it. Never engaged, never rebutted. Just labelled me and blocked me. IMPERVIOUS TO CRITICISM.
my left ear enjoyed this.
Not in favor of trying to ban any phrases.
How about covering the feminist myth that Elliot Rodger was an MRA?
He was definitely a misogynist though.
Of course he was! Killed four men and two women. True misogynist indeed.
***** He was also a narcisist, and was jelous to the point that he would kill over it. However I think his dream world of egg making, concentration camp, rape factories, for women comes under as pretty misogynstic to me. Look, some things are clearly not misogynistic despite radical feminist claims, but part of the problem here is that crying wolf too many times prevents anyone from taking a real wolf seriously.
***** Rodger may well have been a misogynist but he was not an MRA.
Nor does being a MRA, or criticizing feminism or even criticizing women make somebody a misogynist.
Unless, of course, you believe that feminism and women are above criticism and that men should not be allowed to object, when they are treated unjustly.
Paul Jackson I never said it did.
A thumb is 2 degrees of vision when held at one arms length. it is one way to measure angles in astronomy for rough quick measurements among others, like 18 degrees being the width between the outer edges of the index and pinky finger
Thank you for being factual!
This touches on a subject that is often bandied in the religious debate. People have a very hard time accepting facts and figures no matter how much evidence is presented when they have an emotional attachment to their own point of view.
Keep up the good work.
Could you PLEASE rebuld this playlist, sorted as it should be from oldest to newest?? That way users can auto play instead of stopping to back up after each episode. Also, suggestion -please move the next episode marker away from the time line, so one can more easily click it! Finally, keep the next episode marker on the screen until the end, so it is not necessary to rewind to see it. Thank you!
I love your work Mrs. Sommers! I tried to debunk feminist views with my philosophy professor but he was a modern radical feminist and wouldn't listen to me. He went far just to shock us students and make us believe as he does. I wouldn't have it. Keep speaking the truth.
In Germany we have a similar expression: "Pi mal Daumen" meaning "Pi times thumb" (Pi meaning "about" in this context) which originates from the mathematical formula pi*d=circumfrence (the d was expanded to the german word thumb - Daumen- starting with as well) of a circle.
This is a very educational video! Never knew that it was mythical.
Check the facts.Thank you Christina!
Prof. Sommers - I am a medieval re-enactor and archer. We always tell people that the rule of thumb is an archery phrase. When stringing a longbow, the archer places their fist, thumbs up, on the inside of the bow. If the bow is correctly strung, the bowstring should just about touch the outstretched thumb. This is what I'd always heard as the origin of the phrase, anyway.
For any academic that insists this law existed, they should be able to answer a question right off the top of their heads; "When - what year - was this (thumb) law finally abolished?"
“It is easier to believe a lie that one has heard a thousand times than to believe a fact that no one has heard before”
Also...
What is it with feminism (ideologies in general) to be so very opposed to factual findings and reality? Surely having these helps you eliminate the very thing you are having an issue with.
Nar! Feminists would rather be victims you see? Much like the hysterical old time damsels ;)
All while pretending to be for female empowerment lol >.
+kasa blanka actually that's an oft repeated mis-attribution (and meme). Something similar was said by Goebbels though the idea predates him as well.
Here's the link with the exact quote and the references.
ca.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20100310092910AACOZuI
Thank you so much CH Sommers. WHY do we have such a hard time busting these myths?? This error is in a special made about Violence I just added to a playlist. The show was made in 1995 and states this myth word for word as described here. I hope there aren't that many other errors like that in the show.
Wow, logic and facts. Good!
Thank you Dr. Hoff Sommers for challenging this myth! Unfortunately, these sorts of feminist pseudo-facts are resistant to correction (as made clear in the video). For anyone who is interested, Black's Law Dictionary also addresses this myth: "Rule of Thumb: There is an urban legend, dating from the 1970s, to the effect that the phrase is offensive because it originally denoted the width of a rod with which English law allowed husbands to beat their wives. If that were historically accurate, of course, the phrase would be repugnant in the extreme. The best account of the debunking of the legend is to be found in James E. Clapp et al., Law Talk: The Unknown Stories Behind Familiar Legal Expressions 219-25 (2011)."
Black's Law Dictionary, 10th edition. Brian A. Garner, Editor-in-Chief, 2014, Thompson Reuters publishing, p. 1533
My campus had a sign warning about saying "rule of thumb" a few years ago. I wish I could have shown this video (along with the research) to the management.
I like your channel.👍🏼👍🏼
You're just way too reasonable to be real. You must be a unicorn! Thank you!!!
It is an interesting barometer of our times, and our culture, that the act of pointing out a simple historical truth, is such a controversial act.
Or, to put it another way, to say, "Look! The Emperor has no clothes!!"
color me unsurprised. Considering the phrase is "rule of thumb" and is only ever used in reference to preforming a task, it coming from a law doesn't make much sense anyways,
But once again, if someone wants to be offended good on them. No one else has to or should care about them being offended by a phrase.
Is it just for me that the audio is solely on the left channel for her recording?
Good video
That's the problem with most women who subscribe to feminism in that they all too often uncritically accept what they're told from feminists without verifying whether the claims are true. It's little wonder that so many women come out angry, if a lot of the stuff claimed by feminists were true, I'd be angry, too! The unfortunate consequence of these, let's face it, lies (or misinformation to be charitable) is that people are hurt by them. Characters are assassinated, strawmen are created, laws and policies are formed, and innocent people suffer for it. Besides, I get really tired of being told I'm a bad guy just for what is between my legs, and being told what I think even though that's not what I think at all. These days, men, especially white men, especially if they're American, have become the bogeyman in nearly every scenario because of these lies, it stinks.
I tell you, if the MRM did the same thing, I would be just as critical of them. To date, I have yet to see them act anything at all like feminists. From what I've seen to date, MRAs have acquitted themselves far better than most feminists.
There are a lot of women who probably mean well, but have been told a pack of lies and they apparently don't have the wherewithal to question it or to use critical thinking skills. Perhaps for some it just confirms what their preconceptions are, so it's just further proof of what they already think. For me, skepticism is at the core of who I am - I want to know as many true things and as few false things as possible, and minimize my own cognitive dissonance.
Another possibility for the origin of "rule of thumb" is being discussed here in Lindybeige's video about the english longbow around the 3:39 mark; Longbows
Hi Factual Feminist/Based Mom. I'm really really enjoying the videos and especially the evidence presented. I would like you to make a video about transgender women being descriminated against by some feminist groups. I would also like to know your opinion on binary transgender identities in general and how feminism has played a role in their liberation. Thanks for the work your team is doing to keep feminism about equality through these videos. Keep it up!
I agree with Christina Hoff Sommers about everything except her saying she will continue to read feminist scholarship and agree with them when they are right. Any scholarship performed by people without a deep commitment to truth is going to be valueless. Indeed, without a deep commitment to truth their work doesn't even qualify as scholarship. The only thing that should be done with these shameful frauds is to purge them from academia because they discredit it.
True results from a wrong method are never more than an accident.
I heard from history buff's i hang around with, that it came from the minimum with of a swords cross guard.
A blacksmith needed to make it as wide as a thumb or it wouldn't be useful / break in combat. Saying hes read old smiting guides that have a "thumb law"
I'll admit I used to believe this. That changed when I actually bothered researching it and couldn't find it anywhere.
I recently learned that the oft-used phrase "You can't have your cake and eat it too" was actually misquoted somewhere along the way and the misquote is the one that kept getting repeated down through the ages. The actual phrase was "You can't eat your cake and have it too," which to me actually makes more sense. Fun fact!
You must like having a fascists dictate your words terms . Did you forget where you live your constitutional rights and freedoms. The ones where owly losing to woke fascists word police ?
@@ruthsturgeon4979 What?
Why are you trying to police words in America. ? Wtf do you think you are ? This is America where we have FREE SPEECH TERMS of Expression. The Nazis wanted to control speech the Stalin Mao communists dictated speech . Did you ever hear of US Constitution and rights freedoms each American has at birth ?
@@cyrene7784 You not a rocket scientist word Nazi are you
@@cyrene7784 What DUH what
A thicker switch is less painful. The thin switches are the switches to fear. The thin switches bring the blood. Anyone raised in the southeastern US would know that.
Yes! Preach sister!
Natasel
Baseball bats are a completely different league from common switches. They can, however, be overcome by opened fist martial arts. Their surface area is their detriment.
'Rack of eye and rule of thumb.' Refers to an experienced craftperson's ability to estimate measurements quite accurately without instruments. Of course, some people are not as good as they think they are, so it may sometimes be used pejoratively.
an error becomes a deception when you know it is false but perpetuate it
I occasionally see an article from the supposed magazine "Housekeeping Monthly", (that I cannot find any evidence of it existing) called "Good Wife's Guide". I got into an argument with a professor about its authenticity but he was adamant that it was real. Can you research this?
+Clybourn Street it's been debunked as a hoax check Wikipedia for "good wife's guide" to see the analysis and references.
Interesting historical correction.
Endless, absolutely ENDLESS respect for Christina Hoff Summers.
It will always have the layman's connotations. There is the unspoken laws and codes within society that are not written in law. Thanks for the clarity.
I watched a documentary years ago I can’t find it. It started with children’s rights. How they were considered properties and could be beaten to death. Then in the documentary in moved on to this topic. Do you know what documentary I’m talking about. Thank you as well. I’ll read Ana watch more
If only all Women's Studies professors were like you, then maybe I could take it seriously.
i have to get my ears checked, did i just hear a feminist tell the truth?
Most feminists today consider her anti-feminist. I think anti-feminism is better feminism than feminism.
Yes, yes you did and it’s really sad to know that this is very rare these days
It's not that they would measure things based on the length of their thumb, it's actually still used today in engineering. It's using your thumb to feel the smoothness of something. It just so happens that you can can feel very tiny differences in a surface much better than you are able to judge with any measuring device. They still teach the rule of thumb in mechanical engineering schools. I can't believe this was able to become such a popular myth without any engineers standing up and saying "um guys, we still use the rule of thumb".
Well, now you know where it REALLY comes from.
The word "pouce" in French means "thumb", but also "inch". The "rule of thumb" is basically using your thumb as a ruler, while sounding classy.
Truth helps you even when it hurts you.
i feel the whole dismissing of information might be associated with people always wanting to be right, even when they might be wrong.
Thank God. Now I can use the phrase, when appropriate and with a clear conscience, and ignore the college girls screaming blue murder and accusing me of all manner of abominableness, when I do.
what 'rule of thumb' can be used for whle speaking. Im hispanic and wonder
Even if the origin of the phrase "rule of thumb" were 100% true, it still wouldn't be reason to ban it because it's not what it means today. Lots of words and phrases have strange origins and / or have changed their meaning over time - its what makes language so fascinating. Don't ban or shun it - embrace and enjoy it!
I was always told it comes from a general "fact" (I don't know if it's actually true,) that the length from knuckle-to-tip of most men's thumbs is one inch
Contrar, Texas had a statute still in place in the 1980's. It was actually cited by a knowledgeable husband with the unfortunate wife that received his disapproval of her behavior and lack of self control or traditional values. It was removed after the husband was found to be within his legal rights according to the "rule of thumb". I am NOT an advocate for abusing women or anyone else. Just the opposite as a matter of fact, but I am NOT in favor of the way Men are being treated unfairly, unjustly and so easily persecuted, publicly ridiculed and undermined with NO physical abuse evident or any professionally trained family abuse counselors , investigators or law enforcement officers filing charges with NO proof or evidence or creditable affidavits to support an arrest, indictment or conviction in a fair court of law. We have something to DO as citizens in a " Free society" to be diligent and aware of each and everyone's rights protected under the law and Constitution of the US.
Hear the warning Men, that we are targets and that the current attitudes of society and the law seem to be undermining our rights, liberties, home life's and occupations with NO due process, factual evidence or proof by untrained person's with NO training in identification of abuse, cause or severity to any standards. Its a National problem and a social issue that's destroying families, homes and lives everywhere daily. We are being treated unfairly and often the fact is ignored that we are actually the victims and because our sex is male...its NOT a concern because of the fact we are by nature the "stronger" sex of our species. That is ignored and as a result women have the stronger favor in the view of the law and judicial system in family protection cases. We are actually less protected, and often unfairly treated and victimized segment of domestic abuse. It should concern all, because if anyone of us is NOT afforded their rights to be protected and defended, we may all have our rights lessened and reduced or even lost. It is NOT favorable or equality to treat each sex differently in legal filings or motions. It will correct itself with a shift of balance without any standards or law enforcement, legislation action or judicial handling. Men will protect their rights and liberties by avoiding risk and NOT marrying or cohabiting, living together in shared homes. Living alone and king of own home seems be the only way to maintain our security, lives and freedom.
Would the term "reset" be offensive for a open handed slap to bring a woman out of imbalance or hysterical drastic behavior?
I heard this term when I watched the first Boondocks Saints movie from 1999. At the beginning, a woman hired in a slaughter house had a fit over the phrase when the main characters used it to train her in. Needless to say, the scene ended in a comedic brawl.
wat. I can't believe my eyes and ears. *An honest Feminist?!*
Thanks a lot for this video. That myth had me wondering.
And funny enough, I had just used the phrase "rule of thumb" in a conversation with my wife tonight. Luckily she's not one of these brainwashed morons who cry misogyny at any opportunity no matter how nutty.
i heard this say'n before
but i never knew what it
means....
"Tommelfinger regel"
Is what it is called here in Denmark. It has always been about carpentry because "Inch" in Danish is called "Tomme" and that again comes from the "Tommelfinger".
I had never heard the "Beat your wife" thing before and when i heard it the first time i thought they were kidding.
Some egg heads talking on an NPR show said the "rule of thumb" is actually of agricultural origins. The rule of thumb is how to measure the ideal depth for planting a seed according to them.
Rule of thumb comes from the way a chippy would make a guesstimate of an inch by using his thumb which is on average an inch long . Also you do not use a ruler to measure but a "RULE" hence rule of thumb
The “new” rule of thumb” will be saving women from the mess they helped create.
Mine will be, “you fuck it up you fix”
2:56, I've been called a woman hater and more simply for treating women equal to that of everyone else.
I think the rule of thumb came from english Longbow archers. each archer had his bow specified so that the distance from the centre of the bow to the string in a perpendicular line was the length of his fist and thumb (eg a sideways thumbs up)
+livid tea Even thou it's a nice legend, i must disagree. Rule of thumb comes from math and it defines orientation and rotation in euclidean space. :-) Because it works everytime and is actually a real rule, from there it came as analogy "the rule of thumb", something that is sure and should be that way everytime, to many other places. "Its a rule of thumb that this this happens when this this happens" :-)
+thevil aaah thank you
I feel like this woman's seen The Boondock Saints one too many times. Nobody actually gets upset over people saying "rule of thumb"
Great series. I have one you might want to look into: sexist air conditioning
When someone produces work of this quality, they earn respect. They don't have to demand it, or even ask for it. They just respected. Women need to pay more attention to women like this lady, and less attention to clowns like Rebecca Watson, Anita Sarkeesian, Melody Hensley, Suey Park and their kind.
What he said! Those clowns can certainly be amusing, of rather they would be if their message wasn't so decisive and based on oft repeated lies.
This...this is what feminism should be
There is an article containing a debate between Sommers and the author Nancy K.D. Lemon concerning whether Romulus was a real King of Rome, and whether there was a "rule of thumb" in English common law that involved wife beating. Link:
www.chronicle.com/article/Domestic-Violence-a/47940/
Wish you taught at my university.
An untruth can be an honest mistake. However once someone has made you aware of your mistake, if you keep repeating the untruth you are not mistaken you are *lying.*
Even if the saying is based in something that WAS offensive to women, I think reviving that meaning is useless. I don't believe most people know the history of that word and using it certainly doesnt mean youre a woman hater, nor will it worsen conditions for women in our society. Its just a saying that has adopted a meaning independent of its origin. Policing words because of their origins seems to me to be pretty silly
First I heard the origin of the rule of thumb was in the beginning of boon dock saints.
czcams.com/video/4E1weruUCeg/video.htmlm7s
pretty much summed it up for me.
I think I have a woman crush! You are an inspiring woman. You are what I want to be one day.
Christina, it would be nice if you made your own youtube channel.
Personally I would be subscribed if it didn't fill my video inbox with a bunch of conservative economics. Also if you had your own channel you could get a patreon account to go with it.
As it stands AEI has about 11k subs. I'm guessing that at a rate of 2-3 videos a month at your current quality you would easily hit 30k subs in 2 months and 100k+ in less then a year.
Finally I don't think posting through AEI gives the right message. I don't think factual feminism vs gender-war feminism should be a right vs left issue. It shouldn't be bundled with supply side economics and trickle down theory.
You wouldn't find the rule in any law wrighting as it was common law
I tho rule of thumb was related to how we figure out the directions of electrons.
I am english and never once have I heard of a law about the rule of thumb... Really the things people believe.
Should've been called "rule of wrist".
Heh? Huh? Nobody here saw "Boondock Saints"? No? OK, I'll be leaving.
By the way, in the middle ages in Anglo Saxon Law
men who practiced witchcraft were burnt and tortured too if not even allot worse than that, since men in Anglo Saxon Britain were always punished for the same crimes even way more severely,there were no crimes or punishments that were only reserved for women unless they were allot more lenient punishments. Anglo Saxon women were also allowed to have just about any job a man was allowed to have and their laws of Chivalry were still very sexist and very much in favor women. (just the way it was in the 1600's to 1900's)
Gotcha feminists! Uhh double-up uhh uhh!
i would love to read the research that went into this video c:
Cool, I learned something today, there was no rule of thumb law.
Could we make one? 😈
Do we need one?
no in old England for hundreds of years at least if not more, wives and women were very legally protected and respected as if they were someone's grandmothers.
Same thing with old France, old America and many other western countries back in the past that are now hardcore feminist countries.
in our society, at least for hundreds of years, men of all ages were really the ones who were legally oppressed,
I highly doubt women were ever oppressed in the western world ever since Chivalry was introduced.
I had heard this and assumed it was true, so interesting to learn that it’s a myth even a satire of some brutal 17th century judge - of which there were many as this was a brutal period and people were flogged for little reason and hanged or transported for theft. What I don’t get is the reference to undoubted judicial brutality in the past to justify a “counter oppression” of eg men today. Women were undoubtedly badly treated in the past under English Law. So was everybody. Things have improved greatly since then. Its as if this important reality is ignored by grievance dogmatists. The laws have changed and society expects them to be enforced justly. Everyone over 18 has a vote, not just a few men MPs of “rotten boroughs”. How can real problems of today be resolved if extreme change is demanded because of ills of the past distracting from actual issues and just antagonise non fellow travellers?
Sad, to say but NOT taking action would be avoidance or letting law enforcement officers make that decision for themselves? Catch 22
Although, yes, "the rule of thumb" has nothing to do with wife-beating, it should be noted that there existed in medieval Wales a provision whereby if a wife committed one of a number of acts against her husband she could be struck by her husband no no more than three times on any part of the body other than the head if he used a stick shorter than his forearm and no thicker than his middle finger. This is contained in The Welsh Law of Women. See listserv.linguistlist.org/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind0612B&L=ADS-L&P=R2409 for more.
It's a rule of thumb that if an SJW complains about something, it's probably a non-issue.
LOL