You Can Upgrade Your Laptop's Memory Again! (CAMM2)
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- čas přidán 22. 02. 2024
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Learn about CAMM2 memory for laptops.
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Whats surprising is that its from Dell of all company. Dell a company that goes out of there way to still sell pre-built computers with proprietary hardware inside even for the most basic of things
They even scammed people not once but twice with the Alienware area51M. Touting it's upgradeability but never releasing components for upgrades and instead forcing people to buy a whole new laptop for the upgrades.
Wasn't always this way. My Inspiron 6000 and 1011 were (and still are, I guess) incredibly repairable and upgradeable. Latitudes also have a reputation for still being serviceable.
It just goes to show you: Stan the *product,* never the brand.
@@heroninja1125It's upgradable, but not for the end user, only for Dell.
Tbh that’s mostly because they want to make it cheap and efficient for them to make the pre-builts.
Given that most Dell laptops come with standard Phillips head screws, no warranty void stickers and even labels to tell you which screw goes where, I don’t think they have evil intentions like Apple.
@@GSBarlev precisions are still extremely upgradeable but parts are super pricey
I trulyyyyy hope this takes off... Its so hard already to find laptops with 32gb, let alone the price gouging
You will pay $800 for 32gb of memory and you will enjoy it !
-Tim Appleman
Yeah, even today there are still many premium class laptops which still caps the max memory to 16GB with no option to upgrade it yourself because it's soldered
Sure most tech savvy enthusiast recommends everyone to "just buy a gaming laptop which has all the upgradability you need", but some users would not justify the extra weight they have to carry around and shorter battery life
ThinkPad T480 for $180-230 used can support up to 64GB RAM. Namely the models with vPro.
Redmibook Pro 16 2024 comes with 32GB RAM and a 1TB SSD as standard. Pricing starts from $835 in China, you can import it from there for around $200-300.
What’s worse is lack of options. More RAM is usually reserved for more expensive CPU/GPU combos. Meaning a potential $40 RAM upgrade ends up becoming a $400 meaningless upgrade.
@@jivewig Just don't buy thin and light expensive gaming laptops witn soldered RAM. They're a meme.
this is a hell of a lot better than the way apple wants to go about it "soldered"
That and how 8gb is equivalent to 16gb
Apple went soldered for faster and less latency years ago. CAMM2 does not even exist as a product you can buy yet!
I wouldn’t mind about soldered RAM if the pricing wasn’t so offensive, because the soldered RAM in Apple silicon means a much better memory with less latency. Soldered SSDs on the other hand…
not even soldered now, it’s just straight up on the chip so it’s completely unupgradable
Close but RAM on modern Apple systems are not soldered. They are embeded in the same chip (SOC) that contains both CPU and GPU. I may not like it but this approach results in higher memory bandwith and lower latency, even CAMM2 modules have no hope of cathing up.
If it's that good then I hope it takes off. Soldered RAM is a travesty. Really hard these days to find a cheap laptop that does not have soldered RAM.
Really? I've yet to encounter a PC with soldered on RAM that wasn't something shitty like a MS Surface or something.
@@countfrackula6707I did say cheap. In Latin American markets and similar, where the purchasing power is considerably less than in places like the U.S, most affordable and readily available devices are cheap Lenovos, HPs and Acers that often have soldered RAM modules and no extra SODIMM slots. But I have even seen more "premium" Asus and Dells with soldered RAM now.
And they often come with just freaking 8 GB of soldered RAM.
@@diegosoto8537 The new Core Ultra chips from Intel have to have soldered LPDDR5X RAM to be able to use that chip, and they all start at 16GB. I am not sure people do their research before posting.
this is unlikely to affect soldered ram products at all. it's still easier, thinner and cheaper for the manufacturer to do it without the connector.
I always buy laptops that have replaceable ram. It's a necessity for me as my needs change quite often among my devices. It helped me out just this year as I got into design classes that were more resource intense. Laptop already had a 6 core i7 but was being held back by 16GB of RAM. plopped in an extra 16GB stick and boom, problem solved. It absolutely has real world value and I'm glad that there are plenty of people out there that are actively working to keep the option alive.
You won't be able to do that with CAMM2. You must buy a 32GB LPCAMM2; your original 16GB version may become e-waste.
@@andyH_EnglandYes, but it's still way better than having to buy a whole new laptop just for the 32GB of RAM and the entire old laptop becoming e-waste.
The best outcome of this really is just not having to pay a 100% upcharge for higher capacity ram when you can just install it yourself. It's ironic that Dell is the company introducing this standard when they're the ones who notoriously charge like 100 dollars for 8 gigs more ram.
@@g00bergob94 You forgot about Apple lol.
@@johernandez266 Apple isn't relevant to inventing this.
The main issue here is that many laptop makers do not want people upgrading the RAM, thus even units without space constraints are also having soldered in RAM. They like being able to charge an extra $300 to go from 16GB to 32GB, rather than allowing them to buy a cheaper base model and then spending $90 for 32GB., and recovering some of the cost by reselling the old modules.
But there isn't many. Most laptops even now do not use soldered RAM.
If you have choice between a laptop with cam2 or not, you gonna choose cam2. This consumer choice will FORCE the rest of the manufacturers to comply or lose out.
Anyone else notice the quick shirt change at 4:50.
Yup.
Nope.
I was too busy not noticing to notice.
probaly that is the reason for the reuplaod? I swear this video was already posted weeks ago
@@ffffff52I only finished writing it last week.
I really do hope this takes off. This is revolutionary.
It is not. It takes more space, not less, and limits you to a single RAM slot.
Also laptops are already too thin to the point that they are unable to cool themselves on light load, not to mention heavy loading.
4:18 That was so satisfying to watch.
Nice, makes our corporate lives easier. Soldered on ram fu** us hard with some machines bc dell changed it without notification in a generation stepp.
If you're buying machines with soldered on RAM, you're buying the wrong laptops.
@@countfrackula6707 say it to dell - we changed it back to sodimms after noticing it immediately
Honestly I wouldn't be so against soldered on memory if it wasn't for the fact of if there is soldered on memory, there is no SODIMM slots that can be used to expand the memory, and once detected, the soldered in RAM would act as a "limp mode" effectively in case the SODIMM fails for whatever reason.
If they began doing that, I think more people would start to accept soldered on memory as a positive, not as a if it was the technology version of herpogonasyphaids.
Well you say that until your soldered on memory gets messed up. Then your machine wont boot.
@@Dubfiance it the soldered RAM failed, and the SODIMM modules failed, you probably have bigger issues going with the device.
Also, if the soldered memory fails as a back-up, it would be just like if it didn't have it at all unless manufacturers went so proactively down the rabbit hole using hundreds of man hours to fuck it up. And everyone already knows don't trust acer already
already have a laptop like this, 4gb sodimm that's part of the motherboard with a sodimm slot above it. works without the removable sodimm and have a 16gb one installed for a total of 20gb
@@calebpace8788 my previous laptop with 2 slots and no soldered ram had a failed sodimm slot that would prevent post if it was populated, forcing me to run it on a single sodimm, so soldered memory failing in a way that stops the laptop from working even with the working removable module is plausible.
I only buy laptops with upgradable memory, i hate the smaller sizes that offer soldered ram/Emmc storage
I'm proud to work for Micron. Ahead of the game
Let me know when it is downloadable
Thanks for the info, keep up the amazing work
WE NEED MORE OF THIS.
Also, what about using these for VRAM?
My understanding is that vram needs such high speeds that socketed memory just wouldn't work
@calebmenker988 depending on how fast these modules can go it might work. No expectations though as v ram has never really been replaceable without a hot air station..
nvidia alone will kill this idea entirely
how would they be able to sell a 12GB version GPU will a significant price increase than the 8GB version if the user can just buy a off the shelf VRAM module
@@calebmenker988true, but they would definitely help out iGPUs, where their main bottleneck (besides sharing cooling with the CPU) has been the comparatively slow memory speeds. Give them much faster memory, and they'll be a lot more competitive.
@@antonisautos8704 Are you suggesting that gpus should make use of slower memory just so that the memory can be upgraded? The performance hit will be insane, I imagine to the point that it becomes totally unviable (imagine what should have been 4060 performance, which is already very underwhelming, sold for the same 4060 price, but performing like a gtx 1650 instead)
We need upgradeble cpus in latops again
Why? Average lifecycle before a new board is needed isn't long and there won't be another AM4 platform.
@@portman8909 Technology will improve over the sound of your pessimistic whining.
Thank you for the lesson master Riley.
I really hope these catch on for handheld gaming PC devices like the MSI Claw, Lenovo Legion Go and the others. 16GB ain't gonna be enough in 2 years.
Well, that interesting news!
Thanks for the video!
4:22 that screw hole got stripped in no time XD
As primarily a Mac user the thumbnail got me curious if there was some new rumor about upgradable RAM for MacBooks. Now I’m sad… but I get with how Apple silicon works it may be tricky to make with upgradable RAM. However I’m sure Tim Apple COULD do it if they wanted to.
they could, and they did for a long time. They're probably not going to unless forced
@@tournamentmaster2000They would have to completely redesign their Apple Silicon CPU chips.
I hope no laws are made for this for the single reason that it stops innovation - there are applications where the speed and latency of RAM built into the CPU are a genuine advantage and it would be a shame to lose the ability to manufacture them.
People who don’t need that can just buy a different laptop, that has cheaper RAM than the firstborn’s-blood-amount of money that Apple is asking for RAM.
Apple's pretty stubborn. I'm doubtful they would even investigate this.
@@yensteel It's because they know they dont have to on their consumer products. Up until 2008ish, you could change the RAM yourself. The battery too, until they decided to glue it to the top case.
While CAMM2 is better than SoDIMM, the soldered memory is still better on space and power efficiency. But the M chips don't simply use soldered memory, they have the memory directly on chip, for even better power, space and performance. And probably cost too, at least for something comparable in performance. So you won't see something like CAMM2 on Apple laptops anytime soon, if ever again.
Much better than soldered RAM. I hope it becomes ubiquitous!
Yeah, it’s almost like connecting a daughter board
Space ISN'T a problem. The last two laptops I bought like the LG Gram are half empty inside!
it is, for products they wont use the connector in anyway..
@@lasskinn474 I don't understand your opinion, could you rephrase please?
space is a problem for gaming laptops.
@@petergplus6667 that space is an issue for ultralights, the manufacturers will not use this connectors in ultralights, soldering gets them many millimeters, is easier to route and and is cheaper.
someone said that it's an issue for gaming laptops but for gaming laptops the height really isn't an issue since the 200watts+ cooling takes the height anyway. frankly I wouldn't mind mine being thicker and have a removable battery.
It's the headphone jack again
Wow, I love this! Yesssss... YESSSSS!
Usually I hate to see competing standards but this seem to be a good improvement in general.
I hope soldered RAM becomes a thing of the past in laptops.
Jostling severe enough to dislodge properly installed SoDIMMs would likely result in a damaged notebook.
3:30 and now that's a great Alastor impression
I think the biggest reason for higher power consumption for SODIMMs is they only use DDR and not LPDDR. If you soldered DDR it probably will use same amount of power as SODIMMs, maybe bit less because of shorter wiring.
Maybe will still see power reduction‚ if the wires is shorter you also need less power for signal integrity.
@@yohanmestre2203 I believe signal integrity is why LPDDR were soldered instead of using SODIMMs. Where CAMM2 would improve there (but might still use more power than soldered).
Or just... make an ever so slightly thicker laptop which might allow you to actually include some other ports other than USB-C?
one major advantage of upgradable ram you missed:
you can buy buy low equipped laptops and immediately insert additional ram you bought yourself instead of increasing the margin of the laptop seller (apple before m1 was this way).
and you can sell the ram separately later.
imho this is the PC industry finally figuring out that replaceable parts is cheaper for warranty issues than whole motherboards.
Cool, this must be supported.
Though the best upgrade is a trade-in with a nice trade-in price coz' by the time you upgrade it, the newer tech will be bottlenecked by older bus.
God bless.
finally. the best of both worlds. looking forward to upgradable ultrabooks.
now please someone do the same for gpus
Since gddr is much higher in data rate, they need to sit very close to the die to get that speed and maintain signal integrity, look at some PCB shot of a those which use gddr6x and you know it is not going to work for current architectures. Maybe someday it can be done as a extra layer of cache?
Ha! Not to rub it in... But Riley said I'm the best viewer for staying all the way to the end... I always knew I was special to you guys...
I had no idea this tech was coming.
i can't see that memory used on sbc's as it is bigger than a lot of sbc's. it looks bigger than the pi2/3/4/5 size, although I would love to be able to upgrade ram on an sbc. some way of stacking on top of the processor might work, then it is all cooled by the same heatsink.
Love this channel.. show some Amiga love and retro tech content
3:27, oh oh, is Alastor the Radio Demon have hacked the video?
𝕞𝕒𝕪𝕓𝕖
As soon as i saw it, I knew someone said it.
ctrl+f -> "radio" -> and I found someone that said it.
I upgraded my RAM from 16gb to 32gb and sold the 16gb on eBay for way more than it is worth and bought the 32gb on a good sale. :)
Also got a over 200€ m.2 2TB SSD which is ultra fast like faster than most other m.2 ssds.
I hope it work. Apple needs more competition in the RAM and CPU department
What has it got to do with Apple? It only has 9% share of the market and is a small player!
@@andyH_England I like Mac's. 9.8% market share makes it the 4th PC vendor in the world. More competition is always better :)
@@andyH_EnglandApple may have a small market share but no company so far has been able to compete with apples power efficiency with their components. Their laptops last quite a while despite the workloads put into them. That’s what he meant probably
Riley has a hype that delivers anything better
That's great 🙂
wish we get replaceable gddr memory as well, they break easily and everyone has different vram needs for different situations
No reason not to use this new cam2 for desktops as well. Shorter signal path is always good especially for APU that could do with faster memory.
I mean, I have an Acer Aspire from 2012(?) And it's still allive and kicking with 2 spare Slots for SoDIMM yet to be filled, but the limitations of speed is a problem, and we're only accelerating on the slide of technology, so I can see how Dell invests in this Problem BEFORE it becomes a USP for some other company. In Tech Industry, if you cross the bridge once you get there, you are probably too late for profit.
“Jostling your RAM” has a very different meaning if you are a laptop owner or a farmer.
Sound good to me.
I'm in.
Hope they come up with something for the SSDs as well, pretty scary seeing those NAND chips permanently soldered down with the motherboard...
I'm down to it.
Standardization ❤
I’m surprised it’s Dell, but I’m also glad it’s Dell? When Dell put actual effort into things they are fantastic (such as their monitors and office Computers- they function and do the job.) but the Consumer side needs help 😅
Massive W for Tom.
Sadly we are moving to memory-in-package ARM SoC, so this is kinda a temp thing I think :(
Hopefully not a later RD Ram situation
Very interesting standard
My first laptop had a _socketed_ CPU. I wish that could have a comeback.
Hey!!! The difference between 64 and 32 bit busses are more than 4x! It's 2^32
I gotta ask, what's with the odd stock video of man staring at rain in that intro there
Maybe, it's been raining for a long time and now it's about to stop, happy days are coming.
That screw not being countersunk makes my skin crawl. I no longer see any other part of the video.
The way you explained it CAMM2 removes the option of upgrading existing RAM. You have to swap out the entire thing, while with SODIMM you can just insert a second one. Either I misunderstood or your title is misleading.
I thought LMG switched from MHz to MT/s?
Bring back upgra... I just installed a 2nd 4Gb sodimm into Poptoons Skaff's laptop for his birthday, which is... TODAY, actually.
I know that height is an issue, as is heat, but is anyone considered putting a second set of connectors on the top of the processor and then connecting expandable ram directly to that from the outside?
@ 1:29 is that a sora video? The laptop doesn’t have a keyboard
Not so fast, CAMM2 may not be a replacement for SODIMM.
Why? Because the standard defines CAMM2 modules with optional sizes: "Various form factors with X = 78 mm, Y = 29.6to 68 mm".
That means that laptop manufacturers can lock bigger CAMM2 footprints for larger capacities behind pricier laptops with that RAM coming OOB.
Basically we'll get SteamDeck's M.2 2230 pain in the butt, but now with RAM.
Don't know about you but I was already fed up with searching for laptop specsheets in support sections to know if the laptop comes with 2x SODIMM slots or if it's half-soldered trash.
Now they can just state the usual "up to N DDRX" which didin't mean anything before but now may or may not. Gosh, I wish the standard mandates the mention of CAMM2 supported sizes.
I like having 2 slots. I guess that also disappears with camm2.
Sounds like an interesting upgrade for very weird videocards
1:25 The last time there was a June 24 that was a Wednesday was 2020.
thats good
Why are they acting like soldered ram is more reliable?
And even if it was more reliable, when it breaks you can't easily replace it so it wouldn't be much of a plus
To be friendly a device has to be repairable and upgrade-able. Dont fall for big tech companies propaganda
LPCAMM on my Raspberry Pi 6 or 7 please.
Getting 6000MT/s CL36 So-dimm for my Celeron cpu
My hope is it allows for devices like the steamdeck to have upgradable ram 2026 beyond etc..
Another Ramtastic video
So what you lose in thickness, you gain by needing to use screws?
2:24 skip ad
4:31 but you need the screwdriver to disassemble the laptop to begin with.
4:30 isn't it "bolted down"?
Imagine buying RAM when you can just download more
Upgradable RAM would be so good if everything could have it. A family member has a decent NAS, but its memory limit is really hampering it
Batman and Superman once crossed streams in a battle for dominance over one another. Superman, who was about to be defeated, let out a desperate "RAMMMM!"... Batman (who was actually 1980s TV Batman Adam West trapped inside Ben Affleck's Batman's body) exclaimed "what!?". Superman, "backwards!" Batman's enhanced mental sleuthing powers kicked into high gear, he turned to his '80s sidekick, Robin. "RAM, backwards," he hinted. Robin, tapping into his own reservoir of sidekick wisdom, quickly pieced it together, "Holy tech tips, Batman! *RAM*... spells *MAR*..." Batman nudged further, "And 'MAR' is the start of...?" With a spark of insight, Robin exclaimed, "MAR... MAR... MARRRTHAAAA!"
i dont know if I should be impressed or concerned
If it is RAM that you seek, always go with atleast a xeon or epyc. Then only thing that can stop you is the RAM slots and your wallet.
Man I don't understand the pricing of laptop components.
I have a dell Inspiron 3000 and for a 8gb ram off website says 70$ but normally it should br near 20$
Cool !
Will it work with linux?
VIDEO IDEA
Howabout a 2024 version of windows system recovery thumbdrive creation, and windows system and app backup options, both reviews on popular paid softwares, and actual freeware that actually works. The goal is to create a thumbdrive you can create and set aside until you get a full win fail or BSOD ... and plugging itt in just works without a $50 a year sub to crap like Acronis.
"Installs like a CPU"
"Needs to be screwed in place"
How is this an upgrade?
Clearly this new ram is so good, it moves at *Schnell speeds*.
I'll see myself out.
CAMM2ME!
Doubt this will have a major impact. Enterprise laptops like the HP Elite Book or most thick Thinkpads already come with SODIMM slots. Some workstation models have 4 slots 😮 such models from dell, hp and lenovo will probably adopt this new standard as it has less limitations and the price of the modules will definitely be higher than that of SODIMM, which are still ubiquitous. But no mainstream ultrabook will adopt this. How do I know? They make more money with soldered ram, and the consumer already accepted soldered ram without much fuss. Certainly apple will not be adopting this. They can’t even adopt a standard M.2 Slot in the mac mini and studio, those certainly are thick enough to accommodate a 1.2 mm thick NVMe ssd.
Oh Jessica wrote this. I am surprised compared to the others she has written.
I would be surprised if companies adapted this ram.
Won't affect Macbooks as the RAM is on the SOC anyway
Thats a lot less modular than I was expecting. When I hear the words Upgradable RAM I was thinking of a dim that had a chip replacement system built into it. then just buy better chips to slot into it later.
PCB is cheap
3:55 - a correct version must include space between value and unit of measurement. That's how everyone was writing in school, too.
That was not an LTT screwdriver for shame
Soldered RAM and storage should be the next thing EU bans in laptops
Anyone noticed the change of shirt at 4:52 or just me?
Did nobody notice him changing his tshirt lol