Film Theory: Why The Star Trek Federation is Fascist
Vložit
- čas přidán 9. 09. 2016
- Sponsored by Starbucks Doubleshot
Watch my episode of Uploaded ►► bit.ly/2cgdaWr
Subscribe for more Film Theories! ►► bit.ly/1dI8VBH
DON’T Destroy the Death Star! ►► bit.ly/2cry5r4
Film Theory: How To Kill DeadPool! ►► bit.ly/1WXtrCy
This week I’m boldly going where Film Theory has gone before...straight into the Star Trek universe! This week, it’s all about what we REALLY know about the so-called “benevolent” Federation. Sure, we all want to trust the Captain Kirk will always do the right thing, or that Captain Picard’s shiny bald head is really a beacon of hope in the universe, but what it isn’t? Today’s theory shows that there’s evidence to point to the Federation as something other than a peaceful exploration mission. That actually, the Federation is a fascist system who’s set out to control other species in the universe and convert them to their own propaganda-filled perspective!
MORE FILM THEORIES:
Marvel's Ant-Man Could KILL Us All! ► bit.ly/1UnoL5Z
Full Metal Alchemist's Fatal Mistake ► bit.ly/20HoPOC
Rick's TRUE Crime! (Rick and Morty) ► bit.ly/23evcJA
What is DBZ's Kamehameha Wave? ►► bit.ly/1RCwTyy
Can Doctor Who's Doctor Actually Exist? ►► bit.ly/1NmGyJt
We Found The Simpsons Real Springfield ► bit.ly/1Se6Wpc
Luke SHOULDN'T Destroy the Death Star ► bit.ly/1R5tzra
Is Hitman's Bulletproof Skin POSSIBLE? ►► bit.ly/1XPhdZK
How the Walking Dead will END ►► bit.ly/23IqNAR
How to SURVIVE the Hunger Games! ►► bit.ly/1qsEzt4
SOCIAL MEDIA:
Twitter: @MatPatGT
Facebook: GameTheorists
Instagram: matpatgt
Like the theme song? Thanks to CARF!
"8-Bit X-Men Theme" by Carf Darko
/ carfmobile - Krátké a kreslené filmy
"You should always question the motives of the person telling you the 'facts'"
...
I'm on to you MatPat.
But that's just a theory, A META CRITICISM THEROY! Thanks for reading
+Luxus Charka But that's just a lol A LOL theory! Thanks for reading
+
Cc c
Challenge Wikipedians who tell you you are incompetent or disruptive or inexperienced to edit in your favorite way.
Opss. . . Wrong neighborhood *backs up slowly and runs away *
Lol
The Trekkie Brotherhood welcomes you. We do not push away those in pursuit of knowledge. Jedi are welcome. :P
Master Kenobi, what are midichlorians?
+Naedeslus to answer your question with a question aren't they the thing that lets the five be the force
Everyone is welcome to join us on the trek!
MatPat 2016: "I could have had facial hair."
MatPat 2020: facial hair
Nice.
Dadpat has been summoned.
MattyDaddy has been summoned
I hope he found this one somehow before he posted
@@bompscout1999 daddy
My dad was listening and said “not in deep space nine. They show it from both points of view in deep space nine.”
+Otaku Gurl 4 Lyfe Imagine being so wrong about literally everything.
@Crotchwhistle Purple no it didn't
@Crotchwhistle Purple that's fkd man
Hmmm interesting i might need to watch that
@Crotchwhistle Purple DS9 is consistently rated as the best series in the whole franchise by the Star Trek community, year after year. You have made a bold claim without evidence.
Before anyone starts bashing the many flaws and holes in MatPat's theory, know that the point of this video was not to prove that the Federation is Fascist, but rather to make you the viewer understand that you should always question where the facts are coming from.
I'd agree with you except for the title of video says that star trek is fascist and not might be fascist. Because we need that catchy title.
I certainly question where *his* facts are coming from!
Except many of his facts are wrong or make no real link to facism.
Yeah, but isn't the federation being fascist just the theory? As in Film *Theory*
THANK you!
Quark: I want you to try something for me. Take a sip of this.
Garak: What is it?
Quark: A human drink; it's called root beer.
Garak: I dunno...
Quark: Come on. Aren't you just a little bit curious?
Garak takes a sip, wincing as he tastes it.
Quark: What do you think?
Garak: It's vile!
Quark: I know. It's so bubbly, cloying...and happy.
Garak: Just like the Federation.
Quark: And you know what's really frightening? If you drink enough of it, you begin to like it.
Garak: It's insidious.
Quark: Just like the Federation.
One of the greatest exchanges in all of Trek
Why do you insult Root Beer?
@@hydrolito For one thing, because that's the line in the show. For another, because root beer tastes like fermented taint sweat.
his name is Quirk
@@hydrolito Many food / drink tastes really weird and unpleasant if someone's not used to it. If other sentient species exist in the universe, who knows how different their sense of tastes would be? If anything, it'd be a miracle to find food & drink that actually IS enjoyable and not especially toxic to multiple species (except water, that might be common enough to be generalized.)
Star fleet is a military branch, like the navy. We’re not seeing much about how civilian life is.
Starfleet is every branch of the military plus security and they are in total control of society.
Ah, yes, my favorite star trek villain:Bill ney the science guy
bill ney
Yeah he caused so much damage in a non illegally way that they had to use a rigged trial to arrest him
BILL BILL BILL BILL BILL NEY THE SCIENCE GUY!
Bill ney the science gey
It's bill nye not ney
DEAR GOD MAT PAT! Starfleet is a navy, (if my memory serves me right) and a branch of The federation. There are also many ships not owned by starfleet ( cargo ships etc.) also, we don't usually see the life of a federation citizen because the shows and movies were focused on starfleet not the citizens of the federation.
thank you! you would think that after he complained so much about the narrow perspective that he wouldve realized that we rarely see citizen life outside of starfleet
This really wound me up when watching. He says he's seen every single episode of Star Trek, yet he confuses Starfleet with the Federation at every turn!
Yeah you can look through this comment section and see a majority of people make the same mistake then refuse top aaclnowledge it
Exactly. The show presents a very biased view of the Federation. It'd be like saying how the US Army officer's life experience is the same as any other private citizen of the USA. Regardless, I agree with his thesis. Fundamentally, the actions of the Federation, and the philosophy proposed by it, makes it not indistinguishable from Fascism.
Actually, the Federation is closer to a Utopian view of socialism.
we have not seen civilian court cases. only military ones. and of cource the officers and crewmen of the military owned vessels will use the communicators made by the military. us army wont use iphones for their communication. what im saying is most stuff we see in star trek is happenings with military personnell and ships. we cant expect everyone on planets to be adhering to the same rules as military personell. after all even colonies have the right to do what they want without any involvement with the federation (exept for protection and possibly communications).
again. civilians probably dont use starfleet communicators and the captain (like at sea) has command ober his ship. so he has all the right to remove kirk from the ship after going against his command. ESPECIALLY how kirk is not assigned to any federation ship, therefore he is not a crew member and basically just an academy student.
+Beans Theorum But how is it a fascist state? All of Matpat's info is either wrong, uses the fascist actions of people whose actions were condemned by star fleet as evidence that star fleet is fascist, and says that them controlling their own military is fascist, for some reason.
There is no civilian world in Star Trek. Civilians exist, but every civilian role that has appeared on screen has been somehow tied to supporting Starfleet. Starfleet is the cornerstone of Federation society and the core focus of their economy. While civilians enjoy a lot of personal freedoms, it is made clear from the get go who's in charge and who exists to serve whom. This could be because all the civilian settings to make it to screen aside from the sprawling cities of the capital are Starfleet outposts and colonies. Maybe it's the lack of any "Slice of Life" series in the Star Trek Universe that gives this impression, but what has appeared ON SCREEN, suggest a society and economy that is organized around Star Fleet where the separation between the civilian world and the military world is a paper thin facade, and the liberty and livelihoods of individuals are protected only by convenience and abundance, which is in turn guaranteed by the society serving the needs of the state without question and contributing to the success of the state. In other words what Communism or Fascism would look like, if a real carrot was tied to the stick, and the donkey got to eat it whenever the rider switched it out for a fresh one.
+Beans Theorem we have not seen what the civilians do or are forced to do. All we see is starfleet. And what we need to realize is that starfleet =/= federation. Its like saying the us military is the united states. There are no facts of civilian lives. We don't know. So its dumb to assume that they live like people on ships that if a war errupts. Would be warships. Again. I many tng episodes we kins of see people who live on colonies and how normal it is there. Why would they let people go to colonies when ot would be much easier to kust keep everyone trapped on earth...
GangpanSpock "Why would they let people go to colonies when ot would be much easier to kust keep everyone trapped on earth..." Because the colonies are necessary for gathering resources, and somebody has to populate the colonies.
matpat: from my point of view the federation is evil
star treck: then you are truly lost
Agreed. MatPat missed most of what the Federation has going for it. And it all comes down to one word that sparks open a world war of trekkism:
*Paradise.*
@@efulmer8675 I think you are missing the point. There is no such thing as Paradise. The Federation is using force and in a variety of ways to so-called encourage people to join a peaceful Federation where everyone has to change what they believe in in order to get benefits. The very subtle form of bullying. The Federation is evil. It really is. At least with the Klingons how you know what's up. The Federation issues passive aggressive evil
@Scott Isaak i would disagree on there being no such thing as paradise, but that philosophical argument aside, Earth in Star Trek is shown as being that, or being very close to that. Sisko's father runs a restaurant because he wants to, and we never see him charging for it, we never see him needing anything for it other than the actual food ingredients, and we know that he prefers non-replicated food, so we can assume he would avoid replicated ingredients. Sisko's father is also not an outlier. He has always run that restaurant in that way.
Extrapolating to the Earth itself, Earth is a fantastic place to live: no war, no threats, no poverty or hunger, no needless sickness, no problems. No wonder it's the capital of the Federation. Any visiting dignitaries have to travel there and see it. Earth is the best the Federation has, and that is why a new member would join. What's not to like?
Now, to address your criticism. The Federation only accepts species that fit certain criteria. This is true, and I'm not going to dispute that. However, the Federation does not change them to absorb them, they change themselves to join the Federation. This is borne out well through the franchise. Consider the Klingons: The Federation and the Klingons have been through many wars canonically across the whole franchise. If the Federation were interested in territory-grabbing or species-absorption as you claim, why haven't the Klingons been fully assimilated? There have been plenty of wars and lots of time to reeducate the Klingons to a more Federation-like or Federation-friendly structure.
But this is not what we see. The Klingons have retained their council, which they developed on their own long before the Federation came into being, and the House system and all of their internal factions and politicking which the Federation government would presumably stop because it's destabilizing.
Oh, and can we talk about how so many other species walk all over the Federation's territorial sovereignty and they don't even so much as issue a diplomatic objection?
..........using a star wars reference to further the star trek cause.... HERESY!!! lol
@@cheeseburgerinparadise7124 This comes into the harshest light in Deep Space Nine (which is probably one reason why it was so divisive to the fanbase when it first came out).
"The needs of the few do not out weigh the needs of the many" is Utilitarianism, not Fascism. The many is not necessarily the state--e.g., the needs of three people out weigh the needs of one person according to Utilitarianism (i.e., the Utilitarian mantra quoted by Spock), despite the three people not necessarily being a state. Utilitarianism may lead to Fascism but it does not imply necessarily Fascism.
Thanks for pointing this out, I knew he was kind of misleading the meaning.
The needs of the many outweighing the needs of the few isn't necessarily a utilitarian ideal, the goal of (Act) utilitarianism is to create an ethical theory which can quantify whether an action is wrong or right based on the amount of pleasure or pain created by an action. In the case that 3 people would feel a small amount of pleasure from an action, but 1 person would feel a great amount of pain, then in that case the action is wrong due to the net pain and pleasure created. The famous phrase more closely relates to Fascist or communist ideals, as it intends to strip away the individual's personal identity and autonomy in order to make them feel obliged to give themselves totally to the state and society, or else they are not doing their part to help others. Unlike what you said, the phrase is more fascist than it is utilitarian, and while utilitarianism can to a limited degree justify fascism, in reality the two are rarely compatible.
@@oscarwalton4415 I see where you're coming from, but I think you've missed the point of Act Utilitarianism (or any form of Utilitarian Consequentialism). First off, the Pleasure Principle you point out is correct; however, I think you're presupposing the Adjusted concept of pleasure as dictated by Mills (refer to the Doctrine of the Swine respective of Hedonism and Mills' response to that). Consequently, you are presupposing that the 3 people gain qualitatively poorer pleasure than the 1. Why does the 1 have qualitatively better pleasure than the 3 from any one action. What if the 3 have, individually, the same quality of pleasure as does the 1 from any one action? If the latter is the case, then how do you explain the mathematical impossibility that the aggregate total of pleasure from the 3 is greater than the 1? The answer is simple, you can't.
Furthermore, you neglect the Trolly Problem, or any other Utilitarian thought experiment (e.g., Juba and Kameka), which shows your answer to be fallacious at best and uninformed at worst. For example, if the 3 and 1 person split you have proposed are placed into the Trolly problem, then it is correct from a Utilitarian stance to forgo the life of the 1 for the lives of the 3 because +3 happiness is greater then +1 happiness, unless you plan to throw in a Doctrine of the Swine caveat for the 3, in which case, why (not even Freud would stoop to this assumption in perpetuity).
Finally, the titular phrase does not strip the personhood of the 3. It does not imply that the 3 are not individuals distinct and unique or autonomous from each other. However, the confusion you have with that is that the Utility (happiness) of the 3 is aggregated (i.e., (+1)+(+1)+(+1)=+3). Think of this as applied social epistemology with the aggregate function of knowledge. Your analysis is tantamount to saying that if you contribute out of necessity to anything greater than just you, you lose your autonomy and personhood. What if you do so voluntarily (i.e., think of war heroes), you seem to have a contradiction on your hands, which can't be.
At the end of the day, your analysis is weak and fails to properly handle Act Utilitarianism. You confuse utilitarianism with hedonism, strictly speaking, and assume that the more people there are in aggregate the less utility each person has to contribute (why? why naturally assume Doctrine of the Swine and the such for groups of people? Why not for the 1?). This very facet of your argument shows that you fail to take into account the fact the Utilitarianism applies an aggregate function to utility (i.e., basic math). And to the point of the matter, you failed to address the fact that I state that 3 is not necessarily the state.
I'd also add from time to time that statement is true.
Sounds like communism with extra steps
Did anyone else notice the nuts in the opening are Cashews, not Pecans.
Yes, yes I did.
No, Pekhans basically force James T Chachew, or Chashok, into the reactor to save the crew.
Oh.ggDor-Al Kryton Yokoo yfvlB
Hdhgg
Star Wars also has Rebels, The Clone Wars, and cannon books and comic books.
yep
Didn't all the comics and books get decanonised before episode VII?
Officially, yes, but such a massive weight of Extended Universe is not so easily glossed over.
NotAssigned You see my point?
The new books are official canon as well.
Welp this was painful... Like as everyone else has said Starfleet isn't in control of the Federation... So I hope at some point Matpat revisits it with that in mind
Really does the Federation stop Starfleet at any point? Does the Federation at any point demand Section 31 to be dismantled, is there even an effort made?
I want to see MatPat do a video from the Klingon's perspective and a video from the Sith Empire’s perspective. This is intresting.
Section 31 is not starfleet
@@CrestOfArtoriasLiterally every example Mat brings up here aside from money is court martials within Starfleet. Court martials are a real thing. By this logic every military irl is fascist (yes but different reasons)
by this logic, isn't the rebellion in Star Wars fascist too?
Yes they are. Never wondered why leia has the same job as her adopt dad and has the tittle of a hereditary dictators daughter? Or why she agreed to blow up her planet to further her rise to power? She could have easily saved all alderan people by just giving up the location and fight, and she clearly has no problem with dictators for she is one. And i dont see her motives besides a quest for more power. The emperor replaced the local planetary representatives with moffs who got there jobs based on skill and not based on who your parents where. Making leia and this older woman in the aliance (i think name was moth or smt) jobless
No... they're just murderous terrorists...
@@georgemurdock7670 My mind is blown... Wow, I didn't realize this. Both Star Trek and Star Wars... Fascistic? I suppose that’s the point though. You aren’t supposed to know. But what about idk the Klingons or the Sith Empire?
Jihad...Jedi....
@@georgemurdock7670 she did give up the location of the base, they just blew up the planet anyway
This is a fun theory, I was entertained, and then I went to the comments section. I saw a lot of people contradicting the video, and I found them right, so I will present it here.
1. Cashews not pecans
2. Starfleet is the navy for The Federation, military action from Starfleet does not pertain to The Federation's entire governing system.
3. Citizens under the Federation still can practice their religious beliefs freely, like the Vulcans with their philosophies of logic, humans with their belief systems, like Native American beliefs shown in Voyager, by Commander Chakotay.
4. Section 31 is a rogue organization, with select admirals knowing of its existence through membership.
5. There are many private companies in the Federation, like Ezri Dax's parents' company, Jennifer's cargo ship from DS9, Picard's brother, Robert Picard, who ran a private vineyard, etc.
6. Gold-pressed latinum was often used by the Federation and Federation personnel alike to pay people, this was mainly shown in DS9, as Federation species like Tellarites were paid in latinum for bounties, and others paid Ferengi, like Quark, for their services as well.
7. Throughout the entire Dominion arc, not one member of even Starfleet was concerned with conquering the empires weakened by the Dominion after the war, save for members of Section 31.
8. In Voyager, Janeway had the choice of leaving an entire civilization to die in order for her crew to go home, and another choice to upset the balance of power in the Delta Quadrant for personal gain, and even in the future, to gain an alliance between Starfleet and the Kazon. In both instances, she went with the route that upheld Federation principles, which was to withhold technology to abide by the Prime Directive, and to sacrifice her own crew to protect the Ocampa.
9. A facist rule would not explain how the Federation has a council, an elected president, and if I may add, a president that was hesitant to take full control over Starfleet in the DS9 episodes "Homefront" and "Paradise Lost."
10. In the original series, one episode presents a member of Starfleet, Professor John Gill, violated the Prime Directive, and transformed a planetary government into Nazi Germany, who killed offworlders on sight. As the episode continues, it is revealed it was not John Gill's original intention to bring up the racist, xenophobic traits of Nazi Germany, and simply wanted to us traditional Facism to bring stability. With his dying words, he told the entire world that the one who made him a puppet, the one who made racism and xenophobia mainstream, did not follow his vision. The one who corrupted the people was arrested, and John died later from being drugged too much. The reason I bring this episode up, is because Kirk asked the professor why he chose Facism. The professor explained, that in the lawlessness of Ekos, the planet, he believed Facism was the most efficient in bringing it into order. And in that episode, there was no president. There was no council, no star fleet indoctrination. If the theory was correct, and people in Starfleet knew they had the power, they would've indoctrinated Ekos, and recognized their own system as Facism, even if they do not admit it to outsiders. But they did not, they used Nazi Germany, instead of their own government, which would've been easy to replicate, instead of diving into history to find another Facist government.
okay then
interesting
This is way too well thought out for him to respond. He’s fun, and pretty good at what he does, but he’s off a lot.
Also, you cannot count Jar Jar Abram’s reboots as cannon - he is literally on the record as not being a fan and not understanding the series. His movies are fan fic from someone who never watched it.
i can understand why you want to deny matpat here! because star trek is in certain ways improved to our system!
but you're wrong mat pat is right, but he is not right in the defining traits! central rulership is the only defining trait of fascism! everything else is only where they have their rule! the dichotomy is fascism vs anarcism! soscialism is not mutually exclusive to fascism nor anarchism! as well as democracy, capitalism, theocracy!
only monarchy is different it can only be fascist, but not anarchistic!
power disparity is fascism, pluralism and agency for anyone is anarchism! get your facts AND definitions straight! the fasces is only symbol for central rule where anybody but the axe (the body of power) is a stick that protects the leader!
look the differences the greek and romans made back then! it was much easier to comprehend!
these are existing concepts with examples in the REAL WORLD AND HISTORY: anarchistic democracy, fascist (aka RERPRESENTATIVE) democracy, anarchist socialism, fascist socialism, anarchist capitalism, fascist capitalism. . .
all that came after greeks and romans it was trying to blind people about what fascist nature was about! and its a spectrum! because every GOVERMENT IS BY DEFINITION FASCIST, because it contains a central body of rulership! self rulership, agency for everybody and pluralism in every field, from currency, legislation, executive, healthcare, production and over every other field is anarchy!
every historian who is living in a fascist tries redefining it from what it meant in the beginning "together we are strong with our strong leader" thats why it is compelling! sometimes a group of people is together strong against others!
the concepts that withstand against fascism are few! democracy where only rule what is consented by EVERYONE is one of the few!
fascism is not unable to be fruitful for everyone, but it is not asking if the fruit is wanted!
You don't want state television broadcasters? you still pay! you don't want central rulership, you are still being ruled over! you don't want central juristiction, you're still judged!
fascism is not bad per se, but its applycation to the common good would be knowing what everybody wants and delivering that! and it cannot because people conflict about things, that is also true for anarchism! the question is if you want to be PEER in a decision or SUBJECT!
Germany Had National Socialists German Workers Party (often shortened to Nazis) which is not the same as Fascists which were in Italy.
Remember when MatPat made that "Mario is a Communist!?!?!?!" video using obvious clickbait and easily refutable points as a joke? Well, now he's doing it completely seriously.
Also those fucking googly eyes are the worst. At least he isn't using that stupid "angry mouth" anymore...
+Ash Tailor this man is speaking the fucking truth
Neon Murray
What?
At the time of this release starwars had the clone wars show and Star Wars rebels and 7 movies that weren’t splitting the fandom, the good old days
Here are the problems with your theory as concisely as possible.
1. The Federation Empowers its citizens even to a Fault. Examples are plentiful, just look at Seven of Nines parents.
2.The Federation does not crush its citizens under the power of the state, if it did, Data would have lost his trial and would have been taken as Starfleet property, or it would have been irrelevant, because in a fascist state, people are the property of the state anyway.
3. The United Federation of Planets is Governed by a Federation Council, whom are shown to be Democratically elected. While Starfleet may be a Military of some sort, no argument there, you can be a Military and not be fascist. Given that this effectively makes The UFP a Grand Republic, I don't see how you can call it a legitimately fascist state, especially given everything else I've added.
Lies and propaganda! Everyone is working for free for the federation in military or no military roles... no one is paid for their service... fascism!Saudi Arabia has given citizenship to a robot - Sophia. They are one of the most repressive regimes... just like the Federation. Show me a single frame of historical footage of the Federation conducting Elections? It’s all rigged and allows the Fascist leadership to stay in power! Long live the Empire!
@@AtlasGaming4k wtf are you emperor Georgiou?
1-Except they make everyone dependent on the federation as money isn't a thing.
2-I mean, if you go back through the series, you see a few instances otherwise like the demilitarized zones.
3-But who elects the councilors? The common people? An elite group? This has never been shown so either answer is valid and it's just as likely to be an elite group. We also never hear anything about terms of office or the like.
@@boredfangerrude The President ascends to the position through a popular election, serving an unlimited number of four-year terms. Presidential candidates are declared by the Council of the United Federation of Planets, which reviews anonymously-submitted petitions for candidacy before declaring that a given individual qualifies for the office. When a president unexpectedly resigns, dies, or is otherwise unable to discharge the powers of the office, the Federation Council declares a councillor to be President Pro Tempore; the President Pro Tempore then serves for a short term length set by law, while a special election is then called by the Council. (TNG novel: A Time for War, A Time for Peace, ST novel: Articles of the Federation.)
I presume councilors are either elected or appointed by Federation member constintuents.
The ENTIRE Theory Falls Apart with the existence of Deep Space 9 and everything that comes with it foo
The entire theory falls apart if you look at the definition of fascism. Mat's assertion is basically "No federal democracy and capitalism? Must be fascism!"
you guys are just a bunch of butthurt socialists
Dex Starr You give away your nationality when you think "socialist" is a negative word.
It fell quite apart when I tried to compare TOS with the real world. The two systems seems to be quite similar, specially when you look at when TOS was made. By his standards every country in Nato is fascist?? Huh??
SotraEngine4 "No capitalism? Must be fascism!"
We forget that Mat is American..
MatPat, for somebody who supposedly has a good understanding of Star Trek, you seem to be ignorant of some very obvious and important facts about the Star Trek Universe.
1. Star fleet is NOT the Federation, not even close. Star fleet is the Navy of the Federation, nothing more. It reacted to Kirk going AWOL as extremely as it did because Kirk's actions are equivalent to the Captain of a US Aircraft Carrier deciding to enter Russian waters in the middle of the Cold War. The show is from the POV of Star fleet because the show is, and always has been a Naval Drama, with Star Trek being squarely in the same genre as films like "The Hunt For Red October" and the like and therefore is going to, by it's nature, have the characters in a military setting.
2. The Elimination of money was not for some power grab by the federation, it was, and this is very clearly stated more times than I can count, because it was simply not needed. The society had no need for money because they had enough of everything for everyone, so they adopted a "to each a according to their needs" attitude on resources. With the use of replicators all they need was energy and hydrogen in order to produce everything they could ever want, making currency almost ridiculous in federation society.
3. Transport is far from controlled by the Star fleet alone, in the show ships for federation citizens are available and private ship use simply requires logging a flight plan with an FAA style organization, hell in the DS9 episode Explorers, Sisko builds his own ship by hand that he uses to fly all the way to Cardassia from DS9. Communication is equally open to anybody with a Subspace Radio, just because what is usually shown on the show is star fleet does not mean that it is only star fleet with any power over it.
4. The presumption that just because Star fleet has a mission of exploration means that they are equatable to the Conquistadors is nor simply laughable, but makes me question your trustworthiness. Of all of the moral dilemmas addressed in the show's long history, none is more fully addressed more than the nature of their exploration. It is possibly most thoroughly laid forth in the TNG episodes "Who Watches the Watchers" and "First Contact". The first of which shows how when the federation discovers a technologically backwards species, it does not conquer, enslave, or evict the natives, but studies them from afar. To let these people live and grow at their own pace. See, the federation's "resource" they want form this exploration is knowledge, not gold or some other bullshit that requires conquest, but to gain a greater understanding of the world around them. In fact in the latter episode it shows how the federation won't even try to make contact with other civilizations until they develop warp drive. They actively try to prevent their technology from polluting/damaging the alien society. This is not the act of a civilization of fascist colonialists, but the actions of a peaceful and benevolent people. Also the continuous expansion of federation settled planets are ones that are completely devoid of intelligent life. If there is even the smallest sign of sentient life forms in any point of the large amount of surveys that are conducted before a colonists are even sent the planet is declared unfit for colonization.
5. Section 31, The Federation's MIB, is a ROGUE organization from the founding days of the federation that has mutated into the dark organization that is seen in the show. Simply put it is so deeply covered that it's a part of star fleet that the federation doesn't even remember exists. It does not represent federation values and objectives in the 22nd, 23rd, or 24th centuries and should not be considered when debating federation ideology
6. The Abrams-verse Movies are not cannon for a reason. They completely miss or contradict the morals and philosophy of the previous star trek shows and movies. The bundle of sticks metaphor was used out of ignorance, not nuance, as these movies lack that level of nuance to begin with. This lack of nuance and understanding of the base material is actually noted in your comments where you mention how all three have the antagonist being a slight variation of a single character (Khan). Basically the new movies are there to piss on and ruin all that the originals stood for and as such are disregarded in most serious conversations on Star Trek philosophy.
7. The collectivist themes in the show are an endorsement of socialism, which was adopted in the federation because of the post scarcity economy formed in it. Also this is tempered by the existence and conflict with the Borg Collective. The Borg is a show of how pure materialist collectivism functions when not tempered by the democracy and individualism the federation has for it's civilians.
TL:DR by equating the Federation to star fleet and relying on non-cannon material you make a claim that the Federation is Fascist, despite your "evidence" being poor or outright false, and what evidence you do bring is cherry picked to a point of your picture of the federation being one of the worst strawmen I've seen in some time.
I'm going to give you a like for typing all that out, with this matpat could probable do a game theory theory where he tears apart his own work.
why so serious
Damn that must have took you at least 10 minutes to write. Good job.
Why didn't you put the TL;DR at the *beginning* of your comment?
So glad someone went into such depth. Even after the first few minutes, his claim of having watched all of Trek was clearly either an outright lie or a gross misrepresentation.
Even rudimentary Google searches will disprove almost every single one of his points.
I know this is not really the place to say this, but I am kind of getting tired of MP lazy attempt at click bait. I really don't know any other way to put it. If he did even half the amount of research for this episode that he's done in the past, I doubt this episode would have aired at all. Even a casual trekkie can spot the flaws in his argument with little effort.
"Capitalism is designed to give common man money"
Oh , boy
Isn't that supposed to be communism?
Common man stands for: the entire first economic power's army.
@@michalgolonka832 that's supposed to be socialism communism doesn't have money
Yes, it is. In Capitalism, any person could make money
@@mathewjose4753 Then why aren’t we all rich? Or at least all middle class?
"Star Wars fans only have to watch seve- errrr... 4 films"
Technically 11 films, one live action series, 3 animated series and a number of books.
I know this was published in mid 2016, but still...
Even in 2016 it didn't make much sense, considering all the books, comicbooks and videogames from before 2014
him discrediting the prequels is sad
@@thenarrator9000 Yeah. Especially since he made it so that the _sequels_ are actually better than the _prequels_
This aged like... the worst kind of wine, didn't it ? 🤣🤣
@@moemuxhagi nah, sequels are still watchable. Unlike the dumpster fire of the prequels.
@@councilofpoorlylitbaldpeople Excuse me, the prequels had at least a story to tell. It had bad dialogue and bad direction for some of the cast (especially Natalie Portman), but it had a PLAN. And consitency.
And meme potential. So many memes.
All the comments are about Starfleet vs the Federation, or Communism vs Fascism, but no one mentioned the real discrepancy: at 00:10 those are cashews, not pecans...
I thought they were peanuts 😰
thank you i was confused
False, they are pe-KHAN!!
(That's what the United Federation of Planets calls honey-baked cashews)
Honey-baked? So that's why they're so brown?
...except for the top comment made two years ago with 2.2k likes?
matpat: "something darker hidden underneath the surface of every star trek series or film ive ever watched"
there's something darker hidden underneath the surface of every series or film he's ever watched :D
I bet if we have Mat Pat watch the Ultramarines movie, he'll think of something light and happy about it.
Merriam-Webster Dictionary
socialism
noun
so·cial·ism | \ ˈsō-shə-ˌli-zəm \
Definition of socialism
1 : any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods
2a : a system of society or group living in which there is no private property
b : a system or condition of society in which the means of production are owned and controlled by the state
3 : a stage of society in Marxist theory transitional between capitalism and communism and distinguished by unequal distribution of goods and pay according to work done
12,20: Yeah, just what Donald Trump and 10 other Presidents do nowadays...
Yeah there's a common theme there, the search for that CZcams cash....
what is darker hidden underneath warhammer 40 000 ?
“I could have had facial hair” don’t worry mat, you’ll get facial hair AND do it for charity
Matpat: You should always question the motives of the person telling you the facts
also Matpat: **telling me the facts about tv shows/ movies**
me: **confused screaming**
RE “The only non-Federation ships that we see throughout the series are those that belong to enemy alien species”
This claim could only be made by someone unfamiliar w/Star Trek (& didn’t google it), as it is wrong in every detail.
Privately owned commercial ships for trading, colonization, and other purposes appear throughout, from Cyrano Jones’s Trouble with Tribbles trader to The Outrageous Okona’s freighter in TNG. The Maki border militia operate their own outlaw fleet in Federation space.
Also, plenty of non-enemy alien ships are shown, from allied Vulcan and Andorian ships to non-aligned First Federation and Yonada craft. Not to mention those aliens so powerful they can achieve interstellar flight without ships - the Organians, the Metrons, the godlike denizens of Pollox 4, et cetera..
surface details that might fool those who don’t look deeply:
1) the original series had a limited budget to do ground-breaking special effects, so a lot of ships weren’t shown onscreen, but only alluded to.
2) for fans who create lists like the one shown in this clip, the most interesting ships are the big, expensive, complex exploration and war vessels, which have always been the purview of government since the inception of surface sailing ships.
The fact that only the US gov’t can afford to build nuclear submarines doesn’t mean Maersk doesn’t own Cargo vessels and Royal Caribbean doesn’t have cruise ships… the same will undoubtedly continue to be true in the future.
Not all ships are owned and controlled by the federation.. there are plenty of examples of cargo and commercial ships as well as personal transports.
Also - the Federation does not equal Starfleet; Starfleet has tribunals much like the modern day military and the federation has civilian and criminal courts.
Also - I'm aware this is neither serious or real.
Where is there a example of a human commercial ship in star trek?
Not the most noble example, but Harry Mudd from the original series.
Kivuli Nyamaa He was more of a drug runner, slaver. He didn't really create and sell a commercial product.
I like how that in almost every video we get into a really deep discussion and at the end he says "But hey that's justs a theory a Film theory 😂
That is the point, because it is just a theory, a film theory.
This is the least accurate video I have ever seen. Starfleet and the federation are not the same thing. Starfleet is the federation’s navy, but there are lots of non-starfleet federation ships which are owned by citizens.
Thank you
Your point is??
they were actually cashews not pecans.
Honey Roasted to be exact
If the state says they're pecans, they are pecans.
He was screaming at the waiter, he wanted pecans, not cashews.
You mean peKAHNNS
Did you know that cashews come from a fruit?
Matpat: always question the people telling you the facts
Me:so we should question you then
Yes! Always question what you hear, see, read.
@@Gamesgamelan so I should question this but also not?
That's why he always discloses that it is just a theory. He's wrong sometimes, but his methods are still educational. His channels are made to foster analytical discussion of various medias.
@@Gamesgamelan should we? (srry I'm just questioning the person telling the facts)
@@canofbeans4971 We should question the concept of questioning, while also questioning the concept of not questioning. And question everything I just said, even the suggestion I just made about questioning it.
"I could've had facial hair"
Looking at you now, you do.
Mission accomplished.
The level of misunderstanding you display compelled me to write this moment-by-moment response to your video.
1)Kirk only saved the universe once, in the Original Series episode "The Alternative Factor".
2)"God Himself" was nothing more than a malevolent noncorporeal entity trying to escape its prison at the centre of the galaxy. It took the forms of gods to try to manipulate people into helping it.
3)You say "The Federation's point of view" while showing the Starfleet logo - the two are not interchangeable! The Federation is the space equivalent of a federated nation, while Starfleet is that nation's military
4)We get a pretty good look at the motives of the "bad guys" in quite a lot of Star Trek - for one thing, large chunks of Deep Space Nine focus on the antagonists, and many, many episodes of The Next Generation have as their moral "Before you pass judgement on someone, you should try to find out why they're doing what they do and see things from their point of view."
5)Not *every* Star Trek episode or film features a Captain's log; in fact, the term you used, "starlog", is only used in Star Trek: Enterprise. The vast majority do though.
6)If it's only the Federation telling us these stories, how do you explain "Living Witness", an episode of Star Trek: Voyager which takes place entirely outside of Federation influence? Or "In a Mirror, Darkly", the two-part Enterprise episode which features none of the main cast members at all? And how do you explain all the times the choices of our protagonists are portrayed explicitly as at the very least *extremely* ethically questionable?
Oh god I'm only 2.5 minutes in.
7)ARGH. AGAIN, STARFLEET AND THE FEDERATION ARE NOT THE SAME THING!
8)Yes, Starfleet's exploration does help them to spread word of the existence of the Federation, and if a new stellar power develops warp drive and is contacted by a huge alliance of worlds they may feel pressured to join, but that's not the goal of Starfleet's exploration. And while the Federation does mine worlds within its borders, those are always uninhabited worlds without life. It's unfair to say based on humanity's failings that Starfleet is colonialist, when Starfleet officers are usually (though not always) presented as ideal figures, paragons of morality that we should strive to emulate.
9)While Federation member states allow Federation government to manage affairs on a large scale with non-Federation powers, Federation members are allowed to have their own trade deals and their own diplomatic communication with other worlds, they have complete control over internal affairs except for that they have to ensure the fundamental rights of their citizens, and are free to leave the Federation at any time for any reason.
10)Complete freedom of religion is given to Federation citizens, the one caveat being that your religious practises can't put others in danger or cause harm to others without their consent.
11)Again, *past* exploration. Humanity has grown beyond its current nature of a, to quote Q, "Savage child race," and so now Starfleet does not do those things.
12)Again, Starfleet officers are not Columbus. I cannot stress this enough. The Federation really does explore just for the fun of it and the scientific gain!
13)"Primal and selfish human needs" which we have grown beyond by the time Star Trek is set.
14)The Federation is NOT the same as Starfleet! Stop conflating them!
15)The Federation puts nothing higher than the self-determination of its citizens, to the extent that a couple with a young child were allowed to take a spare Starfleet transport Starfleet had lying around and go on a long-term scientific mission to hunt down the Borg, which ultimately ended with their abduction and assimilation. Because they wanted to. Freedom of speech, movement and expression are fundamental rights in the Federation.
16)The Federation has no "dictator".
17)AGAIN, THE FEDERATION IS NOT THE SAME AS STARFLEET! To the extent that member states of the Federation have their own militaries separate from Starfleet.
18)There are many civilian vessels we see in Star Trek. Examples of non-Starfleet Federation ships include (note that this is an extremely incomplete list; this isn't all the non-Starfleet Federation ships we see in Star Trek, it's a tiny snapshot of them):
-The SS Raven
-La Sirena (though admittedly that was in Picard, which wasn't out when you made this)
-The entire Merchant Marine
-The entire Merchant Service
-The SS Columbia
-The SS Dierdre
-The DEV Eagle Valley
-The Festoon (again, Star Trek Discovery so seen after this video was released)
-The SS Hatteras
-The Havana
-The Horizon
-The ECS Horizon (two different ships)
-The Kirsearge
-The SS Koglin
-The SS Lakul
-The LaSalle
-The SS Manila
-The SS Manoa
-The Milan
-The SS Molokai
-The Norkova
-The Odin
-The Raging Queen
-The SS Robert Fox
-The SS Santa Maria
-The Stella
-The SS Vico
-The Woden
-The SS Wisconsin
-The SS Xhosa
While it's true that most Federation ships are built by official Federation shipyards, many are privately owned.
19)There are non-hostile aliens that aren't part of the Federation either. Take the Bajorans or the Ferengi from DS9, for example.
20)NO THE FEDERATION IS NOT STARFLEET STOP IT PLEASE I BEG OF YOU!
21)You show a Starfleet communicator and cite it as proof that there are no non-Starfleet communicators. The person hlding the communicator is a Starfleet Officer, for god's sake! Of course he's going to have a Starfleet communicator! By your logic, the fact that American soldiers wear uniforms means that the US forces its citizens to wear uniforms! That's not true!
22)That's not the Federation's insignia. That's the Starfleet insignia.
23)Well, of course the Enterprise-D can track its own crew - it's a military ship, for god's sake! Don't you think if the US Navy could do that as cheaply and reliably as Starfleet can they would?
24)The fact that the Federation News Network is called that doesn't mean it's Federation run. Is the BBC, the British Broadcasting Corporation, run by the British government? No! It gets funding from it, but it has total freedom over what it reports. Also, I don't know where you're getting Federation News Network from - that wasn't canonised until years after you made the video!
(Continued in replies)
42)So apparently "daring to speak out" = "unjustified mutiny on a military ship" now.
43)Krall's philosophy is not valid. He argued that the Federation had left him behind. Which was true - he was a soldier, and the Federation wanted to be nonmilitaristic. That doesn't, however, make him a good foil for the Federation, nor does the fact that he can personally provide a reason for his actions (a reason, not a justification)
44)It is "simply impossible that... a fascist organisation...would explore the galaxy for purely benevolent purposes." However, that is not what the Federation is, as my last 43 points illustrate.
45)While the Federation does portray its enemies as aggressors, that's because it, being a nonmilitaristic power, doesn't start conflict with other powers. Also, it constantly tries to improve relations with these powers, to prevent conflict.
46)How dare you say that the Cardassians were "responding appropriately." *They* are Star Trek's true fascist state, a clear allegory of the Nazis to the extent that they carried out a holocaust on an entire species that had different religious beliefs.
47)Star Trek is mostly told through the eyes of those in Starfleet, a military organisation. We see a uniquely military view of things in Star Trek, which doesn't represent civilian life at all. How similar is the life of a soldier to that of an architect, for instance?
General note:
With the exception of Star Trek: First Contact, you've only cited episodes from the Original Series as evidence, as well as the Kelvin timeline films. Those two things are the most unreliable when it comes to continuity out of the entire franchise.
Big comment
@@chloewilson4167 I had a lot to say.
@@albertnewton8296 matpat probably has seen very little of star trek
@@Joseph-sg3jz I would concur.
What about ALL the episodes where they purposefully stay out of things just for the sake of preventing a planet from being affected...
You're right, that's literally Starfleet's Prime Directive.
Which they break literally every episode.
Psionic Phazon
No, they don't. The Prime Directive applies to civilizations that haven't yet developed warp drive, they barely ever come across such civilizations.
PokemonTom09 Yes, you're right. Please allow me to amend my statement:
"Which they break literally every episode a pre-warp civilization shows up in (including pre-warp earth)."
Except when they can watched everyone die while quoting the prime directive
The federation aren't fascists they are humanists that was the whole point
hmmm still bhe does provide evidence that could suggest atleast a tinnnny bit of faschism...
no he doesn't. He jumps to the conclusion that everything that goes wrong is condoned by the federation. He jumps to the conclusion that there are no civilian owned ships or communicators, that none of the captains and officers are violating rules and laws.
He uses a lot of stretched logic in this that fails to factor in some very key facts about the federation.
Blind Side interesting so you do have evidence that beg the differ ?
+mamad dial I do gene Roddenberry himself was a humanist
Hmm I dont know first of all identifying yourself as a humanist dont necesseraly prevent you to be a faschist right ?
With the new additions of Discovery and Picard, I’d love to see him redo this in the prime timeline instead of mixing it up with the Kelvin timeline
Disclaimer: Matpat is talking about the mirror universe
What
No he's not
Thomas Robinson - CEM Student the mirror universe is still pretty much the same because if the kelvin was destroyed a lot of how Star fleet operates besides what happens in into darkness would have been the same as the original universe because they are not that different
Jacob Tomberg NEEEEEERRRRRRRD!!!!!!
It would certainly make sense that the federation would appear fascist if you confuse the federation with the federation's military.
indeed the federation of planets and starfleet
But federation doesnt have military, only research ships. They have built like one ship designed for combat, and that was due the borg threat.
öttöröö kökköröö .. yea research ships armed to the teeth, typical totalitarian playing with the words
They are not really armed to the teeth tough, when federation ships meet warships of a race with similar level of technology, they are usually outmatched.
star fleet is the military for the fed
Also, everything you listed about it being 'fascist' are either for safety or for MILITARY, not regular citizens, just the military. This entire show is based off a militaristic perspective
To be fair we know nothing of the general citizen so that means that it might or might not also run under the same code
(to finish your sentence) and soldiers aren't citizens! why would any one let them disagree with a commander murder that boi!
@@thatoneguy2886 The action taken is actually less extreme than the one an actual military would take in the situation of a mutiny, which is lining up the mutineers after ensuring they are guilty and putting lead throught their heads
@@wouterkessel4852 ok you have a point but at this point we would have to figure out if the legal system is working as it should or if it is corrupt
and remember the whole crux of this episode was that 100% of our info is coming from the "command" aka captains generals ect the kind of people who may or may not WANT the system to stay corrupt
@@thatoneguy2886 We actually have some material to work with on whether the system works or not. Consider S7E12 of TNG: "Pegasus" where a starfleet admiral decides to resurrect a pet project of his superiors in Starfleet Intelligence, the phase-cloak. Now this is Picard's crew we are talking about but it is only when the Treaty of Algeron is invoked that Picard's crew actively disobeys the admiral himself. Then, nothing happens that we hear about in terms of retribution on Picard or turmoil in Starfleet or anything particularly but there are two possibilities, and one is more troubling to claim than the other.
Case 1: Nothing happened and Admiral Pressman is still an admiral and the whole thing has been covered up.
This is extremely unlikely to the Nth degree because the Romulans knew immediately that the phase-cloak existed, it was on the Pegasus, and the Romulan Warbird following the Enterprise in that episode was informed that 'their government would be contacted shortly' and that government would absolutely want to smack the Federation for breaking the Treaty of Algeron which has maintained some semblance of peace between the Federation and the Romulans for 60 years (Cold war SALT/START allegory fully intended).
Case 2: Admiral Pressman and his 'friends' were all dealt with accordingly.
This is the more likely of the two because... nothing happened that we hear about. This is not mentioned in the rest of TNG, it is not mentioned in DS9 which was crazy good about maintaining strong continuity (not that it didn't fail sometimes), and this is not mentioned anywhere else. Yes, I am aware that absence of evidence does not mean evidence of absence, but it fits nicely with what we know.
Case 3: The charges are still ongoing.
Uhh, I literally had this thought while typing out this comment. There's not much difference between this and Case 2, and both 2 and 3 show that the justice system is working as intended, so... this is possible I guess?
*When you realize that the US space force logo looks almost identical to Star fleet*
That was deliberate XD. The Federation is an extension of America into space. It makes sense. Not to mention that the USS Enterprise (the real nuclear aircraft carrier and one of the sets in The Voyage Home) was named for the USS Enterprise the spaceship from TOS, and then the Space Shuttle Enterprise was named for the spaceship but then in TNG the USS Enterprise in lore is shown to be named after the aircraft carrier, the space shuttle, one other Enterprise and then Kirk's Enterprise, so the whole naming succession is actually cyclical in a weird way.
Me: *shows my brother a funny video about Star Trek tos*
Him: *tells me about this video*
Me: *in tears* why do you hate me brother
"You should always question the motives of the person telling the facts." Wait, you're telling us facts...
MATPAT WHAT ARE YOU DOING TO ME!?
He knows what he says is opinionated, its a statement you could easily question or believe
That's why it's called a theory.
YES
Awesome 360100
Doublethink in a nutshell.
he is revealing the truth
Starfleet doesn't control all transportation and communication. Because the shows and movies are ABOUT Starfleet ships and crews, Starfleet transportation and communication are all that we see.
This. There are multiple Cargo ships owned by private individuals.
Star Trek 3, McCoy was trying to charter space flight to Genesis in the bar.
Actually we do see non-federation transports all over the place. This is obviously the creation of a regressive leftist
funnily enough the economy of star trek is closer to that of a communist/socialist utopia than a fascist one, but people seem to get the 2 mixed up a lot more often than you would think.
Regressive leftist = right-wing nut-bag?
Honestly, when you have the capability to literally replicate matter, have created an open government that allows outsiders to fully join, and does not openly attack those that refuse to join… pretty good either way.
The Federation outwardly: Boldly go where no man has gone before!
The Federation behind closed doors: Would you like to know more?
Storm trooper vs red jacket. Storm trooper misses. Red jacket dies anyway
Zachary O'Connell *Red Shirt
Alex Thomas you know what I mean
It's red shirt mate. Seen it
:))
Bring me my red shirt!
"But hey that's just a theory" I would barely call it a hypothesis.
Inference Mayhaps?
Maybe, but its very contrived and the evidence to support it is cherry picked. His main focus is on the alternate timeline, which occurs as a result of one of the Federation's founding members home world getting destroyed.
I'd call it anti-intellectual propaganda. Half is blindly asserted generalizations and the other half is bald faced lies. "Exploration is only imperialist" my fucking ass. Yeah, those poor fucking squid tribes oppressed by Jacques Cousteau.
I can say that I've watched a pretty massive portion of Star Trek's content.The movies, the entire Next Generation, Deep Space 9, and some of the original series. As a fan who's grown up on this, and has a clear memory of the episodes, I can tell you that a pretty big amount of what Mat said in this video is straight up bullshit. Sorry Mat, but you obviously didn't do you homework on this one. And since when is sacrificing yourself for the good of others a fascist ideal? Man throws himself on a grenade to save his squad. Is that man a fascist?
Funny joke.
Ten out of ten.
Five stars.
I’ve seen a lot of people contesting your theory based on discrepancies with the actuality of the series, though I feel it’s necessary to point out that Fascism is economically variable, culturally far right, and authoritarian. The fact that the federation does away with currency does not contribute to its being fascist, and we do not see any instances of xenophobia throughout the government of the Federation, so it cannot be Fascist. Great video otherwise, even if you used an incorrect definition of Fascism.
Yes, make sure the crew on your starship are free to do whatever they want and aren’t monitored at all! What could possibly go wrong with THAT!?
Those aren't pecans, those are cashews
Thats what i was thinking lol
I thought they were peanuts
Marañones?
THANK GOD!!!!! SOMEONE KNOWS THEY ARE CASHEWS!!!!!!!!
Yea but shouting: 'Cas-HEWS' might have been misheard and taken as antisemitic ; )
You encouraged me to look at a Star Trek stellar map. If you look at one, you'll see that there are tons of non-aligned systems within Federation borders. For example, Razna V, Krios Prime, Gallos II, Mazar, Kohlan, B'Saari II, Dekendi II, Eska, Troyius, Malcor III, and Arkon all lie near the center of federation space near the home systems of the four founding races.
This doesn't necessarily support the view that they're imperialists, and creates the impression that they actually honor the Prime Directive. They also allow whole alliances and stellar empires within what are otherwise their borders, like the Lysian Alliance, the Satarran Empire, the Coalition of Madena, and the Sheliak Corporate.
Or, it could just mean that the Federation has its hands full keeping control over all the planets and species they already claim. That they are not kicking down the doors of less-advanced species (or more-advanced ones that would kick back - *hard*) could simply be attributed to the facts that they have enough resources for themselves, do not want to have to share resources with non-Federation worlds if it can be avoided and that their main focus is on controlling their own citizenry rather than expanding it. After all, they colonize planet after planet, and quite often these colonies (entire planets mind you) have populations measured in *hundreds*, or at best thousands! Why do they keep claiming planets only to plop down fewer settlers than most real world suburbs as opposed to moving millions of people from Earth to a smaller number of colonies? Because their expansionism is working just fine without the need for conquest! A colony with 500 people on it is every bit as much Federation territory as a species' homeworld with billions of inhabitants! They are planting their flag on innumerable planets, some very far away from the colonists' original homeworlds, for no better reason than to increase Federation territory. This is why the Maquis were so incensed by the Federation deciding to sacrifice expansionism to avert further war with the Cardassians. The ideology they had been raised to believe in held that the Federation should *always* grow larger!
You are talking like a crazy person. Star Trek is a work of fiction. If that is the way they wanted things to be, they would of wrote it to be that way.
LeginNoslen
No. Writers make mistakes just like everybody else. They also can have agendas, just like everybody else. We may not always know which it is.
For example, the TOS-era Prime Directive was explicitly presented as a benevolent anti-colonialism measure which could be bypassed in order to prevent catastrophic loss of life. But, by TNG and ever since, it has taken on a flavor of Randian Objectivism, essentially arguing (explicitly, and onscreen) that it exists to protect the imperatives of *evolution*, not people, and that even extinction is an acceptable outcome for a species that cannot save itself.
Works of fiction are one of *the* key ways that culture conveys social messages. This is why Star Trek has long been the subject of so much praise for addressing real-world social issues in metaphorical ways.
But the writers sometimes have darker messages than idealistic fans may expect, or they may just be so determined to make a favorite storyline work that they just hope that audiences will overlook some of the sinister subtext that they use to facilitate those plots.
Those empires realize star fleet would flatten them so close to their core worlds, thus the ultimate standoff.
Reminds me of a scene where Riker was on a non federation planet, when he was told they didn't accept his fed credits as payment he got aggressive and threatened them
"how about the justice and criminal court systems, again its under the thumb of the federation"
is matpat suggesting we have private courts?
Man, This Comment Section blew up worse than Hiroshima and Nagasaki combined.
I'm a Quarter, I'm Heartless.
It's so true though
...
But but but... you're a *Canadian* quarter.
The even funnier part is that most, if not all MatPat's stuff is purely for entertainment purposes. And so many people take it at face value. It's retarded.
It was funny, but im sure he/she could throw a 9/11 reference in there for an extra star
Oh God, MatPat. This is one big disaster. Thankfully there's others before me who have already pointed out the biggest flaws. Just one thing I'll repeat, which shows how little research you actually seem to have done for this video is this:
You conflate Starfleet with the United Federation of Planets constantly in the video. Those are not the same. The logo on the communicator is the logo of Starfleet, not the logo of the UFP. The reason why that logo is on there is because those communicators (which are not the only communicators that exist) are only used by Starfleet. And the reason why Starfleet seems to own all the ships you found is because all Star Trek stories are told around Starfleet because Starfleet has the most dramatic potential out of all factions in the universe. No-one wants to watch a series about a warp coil engineer from Milwaukee if we can have the epic saga of the Starship Enterprise.
Starfleet (which you have been wrongfully calling the Federation throughout this video) is the military and exploratory navy of the Federation. What you're doing is like calling the United States the US Navy, or Germany the Luftwaffe.
And now we're gonna have to deal with a bunch of listen-and-believers tell us that Star Trek is fascist because they saw it on Film Theory. Great.
I have no doubts you came to this video *only* to comment this. Before you say anything, I don't like Star Trek and "fanboyism" is a shitty insult. Okay, continue.
Tbh theories like this one and that Wright one aren't that great.
RobotDeathParty You'll be happy to hear that you're completely talking out of your ass. I like both theory channels and MatPat is one of my absolute favorite creators on this site. I came to this video expecting a usually well researched, thought provoking theory, but instead I got this, so I voiced my opinion about that.
HOLyPumpgun | Gaming Not talking out of my ass at all, especially since the use of that implies I don't know what I'm talking about... Which I do. I did, indeed, have no doubts as to what I thought.
Even other TV shows recognize this point. In the episode titled "The one where were trapped on TV" of DC's legends of tomorrow 2 characters get trapped in a star trek parody show where the motto is "To find disobedient life forms, and blow them up with lasers"
I think you're confusing Authoritarianism with Faschism.
Or you just wanted that clickbait.
Either one
Forcible suppression is specific to fascism, so he's not wrong
@@jlupus8804 thats not true, every type of government is possible of suppression, both of people and information.
@@gennik7966 Assuming that's true, they'd still be potential fascist
@@jlupus8804 potential fascists still arnt fascist. im confused as to the point you are trying to make.
@@jlupus8804 Also its not an assumption, its a fact. Suppression has been a thing since the dawn of civilization.
3:47: That's Greek armor, a legionare would never use a shield like that.
Matpat the pleb.
???
Except pleb came from Roman plebians :P
Well spotted.
+Some One Greek plebeians
Talking about eliminating capitalism. Brings up Hitler instead of Lenin or Stalin. Srsly, MatPat?
Lenin and Stalin were Communists, Mussolini and Hitler were Facists, which is what he's trying to prove.
Reff41 No shit. So all he does is show how the two extreme sides of the same coin are just the same.
MatPat would have had a better time at making the connection of the Star Trek Earth being one of Marxist Utopia.
Friday the Thirteenth ... that's kind of the point: the Star Trek Earth has more to do with Communism/Marxism than it has with Fascism. Those two weren't fascists, but fascism and marxism are the two extremes of the horseshoe that touch each other.
Rizky Iman He pussed out like a bitch... which kind of makes him a dog too...
My god... Hitler was CatDog!!!
lovz2splooge Yes. And?
It is funny how you never hear about elections in Star Trek.
"You keep using that word, I do not think it means what you think it means."
"History is written by the victors"
History also so happens to be filled with liars
+Logan “The Bearded Sniper” Chandler hence them always being on the "right side of history."
Tell that to the Northumbrians and Mercians
Would he have been if he had won? In the eyes of the people at least.
But he didn't win, now did he?
RIP Game and Film Theory, both have gone down the shitter now that MatPat sold out.
Go to shoddycast hes doing great theories
It's not that he sold out. It's that he is overworked. One guy doing at least three shows. Quality is going to suffer, no way around that.
+Doctor Sneus dont know
So much butthurt from trekkies.
which is why I gave the pope Undertale.
Commercial: "why do you call it a living room if it's the least lived-in room?"
Section 31 isn’t apart of Starfleet. They’re actually separate group that is imbedded in aspects of Starfleet. Majority of Starfleet has no idea what Section 31 is.
The hardest evidence against the Federation being fascist are the Mirror Universe stories. Those are pure fascism. And they are brilliant as a counterpoint for the characters.
this
There is one serious problem with this video: Starfleet isn't the government, it's the navy.
faux military more or less. It has aspects of the military but with more added TV drama that the military don't have
Navy is government, especially when it is under its control.
No...the Navy is the military. The government is the government. The military is under the control of said government, but has it's own rules and policies and follows strict chain of command all the way to the top. A senator can't give a soldier and order, a mayor can't tell a Marine what to do. Nor can a congressman, etc. Following how the US works, orders come directly from the top, the Command in Chief, through the joint chiefs of staff and down to immediate officers. That's how it works.
Sounds like somebody is getting coal for Christmas
Its more like NASA.
The way the federation handled the Maquis I think is evidence enough
Yup. Even though the motto belongs to only one Ship, the goal of the Federation is clear.
An ever expanding empire and an impossible Utopia.
Remember Cisco poisoning a planet's atmosphere to catch a renegade?
If born in that setting I would join the Maquis the moment I could walk.
MAT, YOU RAISED A BETTER QUESTION THAN THE ONE YOU ANSWERED!
What happens if you expose Pecans to heavy doses of Radiation?
you get tiny enterprises made of pecans capable of reaching warp speeds. their crew consists of tiny pecans
What you get a scratch from an irradiated cashew? Do you become "Cashew Person"?
They turn into Cashews.... apparently.
They turn in a cashew
They turn into cashews apparently.
A B C E F G H I J K L M N O P Q R S T U V W X Y Z.
Notice anything?
The D is out for Harambe
You should have put:
A B C D E G H I J K L M N O P Q R S T U V W X Z. did you noticed anything?
F is out for you.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Keep trying the comebacks.
+GameSync+ the u is still in there.
Hilarious and original. Not copy/pasted at all
A F B U C C D K E Y F O G U
notice anything? take the order out and it says fuck you
are you really scotpilgram
This video really was “just” a theory, an ANCAP theory.
Surprised that the TNG episode "Measure of a Man" wasn't brought up. Starfleet LITERALLY tried to declare Lt. Commander Data PROPERTY & that he didn't count as sentient because he was an android!
Because it debunks the theory easily. There wouldn't have been a hearing if the Federation were fascist. They would have just taken Data.
I'm certain this has been pointed out by others (as there are over 14,000 comments listed, already) but I'll chime in, just the same.
The Federation cannot be considered a fascist society, by even the broadest definition of the term. There were several episodes, in both the original series, as well as _TNG,_ wherein it was clearly said, by both Capt. Kirk and Capt. Picard, that a pre-contact civilization's decision to join the Federation was that society's choice to make, and nobody else. That, more than anything else, militates against the argument made in the video which states that the Federation is a hyper-expansionist empire that dominates it's member worlds, and forces less advanced civilizations to join...or die. The point made in the video, that of a hybrid democratic/socialist, post-scarcity utopia in fact being nothing more than a totalitarian regime in disguise, is clearly flawed.
Adrian Whitt Your point being...? I never asserted that a fascist, totalitarian regime could not be voted into power...It has happened in the past, as you noted. Hitler was elected to the Chancellorship of Germany, then proceeded to amass unprecedented emergency powers under the pretext of "National Security".
However, unlike the Federation, Germany did not give it's neighbors a choice, when the Nazi regime decided it needed to expand, geographically. It sent in the shock troops, then the SS, then the Gestapo, in order to round up and ultimately exterminate the undesirable elements of the local population.
I don't recall an episode of Star Trek in which the Enterprise, conducting a First Contact mission, was followed by a massive Federation invasion force which imposed its collective will upon the poor, helpless alien species of the week.
and trump! :P
Petrino please, don't remind me...
;-P
I would rebut with: how often has the Federation actually stuck to that policy? It's a great philosophy (if you don't dig too much into it), but the Prime Directive and the First Contact policies of the Federation have always been at the mercy of the story. Picard will use the PD as an excuse to let an entire civilization perish because they didn't invent Warp Drive yet, while on the other hand Kirk will use the exact same logic to redirect a hollow asteroid to avoid impacting a Federation colony*. The rule is only as absolute as the specific Captain decides, with very few PD situations ever coming up for review.
* Notice that he Federation colony in "The World Is Hollow..." can be mostly evacuated in time, however, Kirk's original mission was to divert the asteroid to save the state property on the planet from destruction. A PD society on the asteroid only made things more complicated... not to mention Kirk was about to let McCoy hang out for a year and get all violated in the Prime Directive.
But they do not disturb pre warp civilisations, even if they have valuable ressources on their planet and they are in their bronze age and thus litteral ages away from a warp drive. They could easily force relocate them, kill them, or just dominate them but they simply don't. And they accept if someone doesn't want to join.
Wow, you got a lot wrong here. I'm not even a Trekkie and I know every world in the federation has it's own government. The Federation handles foreign policy and defense. That's why it's called The Federation because its a federation.
Earth is the only world established in the shows to not have money. On earth you are given energy credits on the day you're born. Many times more then you need to live and you are free to do with them what you want.
You are confusing the legal systems of Starfleet a military body, The Federation a UN like body, and the world governments which are much more like a western government like we have today.
There are also many examples of non Starfleet ships in the Federation. Most worlds in The Federation are shown to have their own ships and all earth colony ships are made and or paid for by private citizens.
Also if people have to go rouge to do bad things doesn't that show in someway the Federation is good.
Voluntarily sacrificing oneself for an other is noble (Spock) and forcing people to sacrifice themselves isn't noble (Hitler). Do you see the difference? So are the people in Starfleet voluntarily joining the sticks or are they being forced to join the sticks. I think you even know that Starfleet is 100% voluntary and for that matter so is the Federation.
What ^^HE^^ said.
Butt Hurt much?
Yeah he dropped the ball on this one.
I think there are a few more things that he overlooked but I can't remember all the details.
Meddling Kids I am, just not over Startrek. The Theorists has let me down on his level of research.
4x :
Xplore (the map)
Xploit (resources)
Xpand (your empire)
Xterminate (your enemies)
Alright MatPat, I get all of this, but please next time when you try to do a Star Trek theory, remember that the Kelvin Timeline Federation isnt the Main Timeline Federation
Wait a second MatPat. I've watched the entirety of the Star Trek series, movies and all. And a lot of this is just total bull. Firstly Starfleet =/= The Federation. The Federation is a system of Planets joined together not unlike the UN. Starfleet is an Organization of Pilots and Crew members to do go exploring. Starfleets rules are not the Federations. Kirk is tried by Starfleet, not the government in which Starfleet lives. Secondly, as for Transportation would you care to explain Klingon warships and battlecruisers? Or the Mining ship Nero uses in 2009 Star Trek. How about the many other non-Federation planets ships we see in the Series? Including the rest of the Romulan fleet. And Communication? The Communicators are Starfleet issued, not Federation. Each Federation planet has their own equivalent to Starfleet, and thus have their own methods of communication. Also, you say you've watched all things Star Trek then how could you forget about THE PRIME FREAKING DIRECTIVE. To quote "Prohibit Starfleet personnel from interfering with the internal development of alien civilizations." GOES ENTIRELY AGAINST THE THEORY YOU HAVE PRESENTED. As for money, credits are used within Federation planets as their form of currency. The aliens homeworld currency is used in the event they aren't a Federation planet.
thank God I'm not the only one to point these out.
Goddamn, I started to think I'm the only one seeing this video as grabbing anything from any Trek, even things out of context and present them in a specific way just so they'd support the theory of the federation being fascist.
Either this've been a sloppy work from Mat or he actually goes for the money-and-attention-grab flow.
Both possibility is troubling.
Then why are there so many episodes where researchers or others are 'hitching rides' on the Enterprise instead of just using their own transport? I think what he's saying is that you don't see any privet ships zipping around the galaxy.
Also, in their system of government it's likely that even ships said to be owned by some mining group or other trace back to the Federation or Star Fleet in some way. After all in a system without money there couldn't possibly be companies to run the mines so the equipment (including ships) must be supplied by the government in some way.
The video isn't wrong about money. Star Trek is certainly supposed to represent a post-money society. They only use money when dealing with outsiders such as aliens. Consider the Next Generation Episode "The Neutral Zone" which includes this line: "A lot has changed in the past three hundred years. People are no longer obsessed with the accumulation of things. We've eliminated hunger, want, the need for possessions. We have grown out of our infancy. "
Ansatz66 Yes, and doesn't "The Next Generation" also imply that, if you're in Star Fleet, that all of your needs (food, clothing, shelter, etc...) are taken care of by them?
I'm not sure they've ever explained how these needs are met by civilians. I guess everyone gets a replicator and can make whatever they need with that. I know some of the shows have mentioned having specialized replicators that can make certain things. Like the ones we've seen the most make food and drinks, then there are others specially made to make clothing and equipment, etc...
That said I'm pretty sure we've also seen one used to make anything so I don't know. Guess in a world where you can walk up to a device and say "give me a juicy stake" and one comes out the need for money is gone.
Still, I would think that would lead to a population that is overfed and lazy unless you have some kind of system that limits how much you can use a replicator unless you do something to earn more uses.
Maybe they have some system in place, I don't know, but Picard seems to imply that everyone just works and does whatever they do for the sheer betterment of life kind. A nobel idea but I don't think everyone is that nobel.
Heh, the Star Trek fans are really destroying this theory. Makes you wonder if MatPat has actually watched all of the things he claims to have watched.
It is like the fans of Star Wars, so they were angry because someone broke the fantasy bubble
Yeah, there are many holes in his theories here.
If he actually had a good point, people might actually agree with his argument. As such, it is so poorly put together and presented that it fails right off the bat.
nawh people are just really pissed off, most of the things he makes has conclusions that makes fanboys pissed off
Most of Star Trek is not recent and I'll give him some slack if it's been a while since he last watched Star Trek, but still.
If you remember, in the Star wars cannon, they was 2 great wars and a purge, because of the last war that leaved many sick people from nuclear and genetic alteration. And all this, before the federation was created after they meet with the vulcan. So yeah, what you said in this video is really plausible.
Mat pat Star trek is actually told from the star fleet prospective not the federation's (Watch star trek picard for a look a federation civilian life) and the Xoza from DS9 is not federation built and that star is the star fleet symbol not the federation's.
MatPat make Dr Who part 3 or I will get CatPat
Yeah
Yeah!
he's waiting for new season to come out
I'm Chinese so I'm gonna cook catpat and eat him for dinner if doctor who part 3 isn't made
+Dark Strive The next series is next year. There's a spin-off meant to broadcast sometime this year, but I've heard no details about that at all, so if he's waiting for either of them then it's gonna be a loooooong wait.
the game theorist jumped the shark and made a click bate video.
I think Mat Pat missed the whole point by comparing the future to the past. Humans are on a trajectory upwards through time, Star trek reflects futurism. Money was not banished- what need would there be for it if there exists a magic box that makes whatever you need?
MatPat: Star Wars fans needs to watch only 4 movies
Clone wars: am i joke to you
Video comments
99.99% people criticizing
00.01% this
+Quilava the Mercenary forgot keemstar
+Quilava the Mercenary what
+Quilava the Mercenary Dude did you just go on comments of star trek theories to tell other people to kill themselves?
Good job dude, proud of ya.
I don't really know star trek
SSSSSPPPKKKKKKK!!!!!!!
Spok- what the hell do you want? my relative to revive?
Original idea is good but your arguments are not so much.
Federation is not a government, it is a union. You don't have to join it, and even if you do, they respect your traditions and society. Even if your traditions are fucked up.
They don't control transportation, communication or economy.
There are many other spaceships (custom made or made by non-federation races) you can use. Even if there wasn't, that doesn't mean they "control" it.
Everything is produced by same people and factories, simply because there isn't a private sector to profit. This is also the reason why there is federation logo on so many things.
They don't keep track of where is every single person at any time. This is only a feature of federation starships. They can also scan for specific people on surface if only there is a valid reason. And they only know where they are, there are no cameras or any kind of recorders although there are many cases that can be easily solved if some kind of record existed. Privacy is a very serious matter in federation.
Economy as we know is not exist, there isn't anything to control in federation's internals. Federation members can still trade with non-federation people who are still using currency. Like Ferengi. There isn't any kind of limitation to that, as you can see in DS9.
And "The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few" logic generally suggested by "the few", so I think they are going for sacrifice theme there, not fascism :)
I think Section 31 is the most valid angle to this subject. It is nearly as old as federation, but it still exists. Clearly, there are some high ranking people in federation looking the other way.
I got a little carried away but that's what happens when you put 500+ hours to something (as you know) :(
Yeah I think the Federation has fascistic tendencies. My biggest question is how much room is there for private business organizations. There seems to be some room, at least by DS9 times, but of course since DS9 was on the frontiers of the Federation we do not no how free the free market was.
You'd have to define "Private Business Organizations" - Sisko's father ran a restaurant, Picard's family ran a vineyard - both of these on Earth.
Neither of them charges people. They are doing it for recreation.
The Federation itself, in general, does not have a need for money per se as everything needed (food, clothing, etc...) can be replicated. However, there is still the need for Federation citizens to have currency or other methods of barter/purchase for societies outside the Federation, such as the Ferengi. This is why the Ferengi (and others) value gold-plated latinum so much; it cannot be created artificially in a replicator. There are plenty of things that exist outside the Federation that a Federation citizen might want, such as Romulan ale (illegal) for example. Granted, not much has been said about the Starfleet pay structure, but it definitely exists in some capacity as Harry Kim has the ability to purchase the crappy trinkets that Quark tries to trick him into buying for his family in the first episode of Voyager.
As far as empire building goes; yes, the Federation does want to add new worlds to their union but they never conquer to do so and it is always a choice presented only to a warp-capable world. The Federation is more of a mutually beneficial space socialism type structure (the good-on-paper kind of socialism, not the bad Soviet kind) where a world that is part of the Federation gains great benefits from being part of the Federation such as resource sharing, defense against enemies, greater opportunities for their citizens, the end of shortages in food/water/medicine, etc... in return, the Federation too gains resources and knowledge and personnel etc.
In the decade of 60 it was believed that communism was the pinnacle of social evolution was so "Tribal- Feudalism-Absolutism-Republic Socialism-Communism", the Federation was a "Communism Utopian" at that time they believed that this would be the future of humanity.
This means that Star Trek promotes communism?
No, they simply wanted to create a futuristic universe that including society
Other big twist : The federation capital is Rome and the leader is Benito
You should always question the motives of the person telling you their theories, so that you can get what's really going on.
How is this not the top comment?
Because only two people have replied, so far. And there's only one like, so far. Give it time, it may end up at the top before you know it.
Good Point!
Motive: clicks, chicks, and dicks out for harambe
I thought the same thing.
That moment when you wach Film Theory video and Mat starts talking about histry about WW2 and you just node youre head, and when Mat says that Italys flag simbol was originaly Bunch of stics and he yels "MIND BLOWN" you are like: "yea, you didnt know that? what? where do you live? oh wait... its America, they only think about how to start a war for oil..."
Lol gotta love hipocrisy
I don't think about how to start a war! :O
I think about how many turns I have left until I can craft my nukes.
Have a snicker +ArlanKels You turn into Gandhi when you're hungry.
It's not uncommon for people from a different country to know little about another country's flag; did you know America had two flags before the one we have now and canada had a different flag before their current one?
If you have them ready... I humbly ask of you to take into consideration the following places:
- Mekka
- Medina
- Beijing (Death to Communism!)
- Straßburg
- Brussels
- Hanoi
- Washington (if either Trump or Hillary win)
- Toronto
- Paris' suburbs
- Abu Dhabi
- Qatar
- Kuwait
- Busheir
- Berlin (Death to the Füherin!)
Thanks
The “Star Wars fans only have to view 4 films” did not age well…..
What do you mean, the four star wars films to watch are 1,2,3,3. You have to watch three twice just to be safe
Aside from getting the definition of Fascism wrong, you make several assertions counter to episodes. Cyrano Jones is a free trader - at least until he commits treason. Kivas Fajo, as well, 70 years later. And we seen dozens of merchant captains in DS9, including several operating in Federation space - Cassidy Yates amongst them.
The other thing to remember: The JJ-Trek movies/Kelvinverse are an alternate time line. It only applies to the Kelvinverse.
Well put, except for one little nit-picky detail... Cyrano Jones did not commit treason. He was only really guilty of introducing a potentially invasive vermin species throughout the Federation worlds, but that wasn't because he was betraying the Federation, just trying to make a living as a merchant of exotic goods.
Rewatch the Animated.
He starts a shooting war with an enemy power.
I have seen "More Tribbles, More Troubles" and while the Klingons are angry at Cyrano Jones, there is nothing there to indicate that he is a traitor to the Federation.
William Hostman So was Harry Mudd, but he stole his ship and didn't register it with the government .
There are even traders in Enterprise.
Engaging in armed conflict without a letter of marque is generally considered either treason (if it reflects on the government) or high piracy (which is nearly the same). Both Mudd and Jones are due major time in a penal colony....
Note that Jones also broke his conditions of incarceration to leave and get the glommer. He stole a federation ship, crossed a closed border, and triggered a shooting war. Close enough to treason for me.
You seem to be conflating "Starfleet" with "the Federation." The United Federation of Planets is a massive collective agreement between individual planets who still maintain autonomy, but have access to the resources and protection of the Federation. Planets that join the Federation (always willingly) do so with the goal of cooperating toward the common good. Now, you can call that "Fascism," because these days apparently anything that isn't solely about looking out for yourself with no regard for others is "Fascism", but a lot of your points don't add up.
The Federation is like a galactic United Nations, or perhaps a United States if each state retained a certain amount of autonomy from the rest. Starfleet is basically the Navy and NASA combined. It's a military organization, albeit one whose primary mission is exploration rather than war. Our characters are Starfleet officers. They have chosen a military career, and thus are subject to military rules and regulations. To assume that the standards to which Starfleet officers are held extend to private citizens is absurd. You can't court-martial a private citizen. Citizens are subject to certain rules, like "don't murder", but those are just, y'know, laws.
Repeatedly throughout this video, MatPat, you refer to the Starfleet emblem as the Federation emblem, which indicates that you don't understand the difference. Starfleet officers are held to Starfleet codes of conduct, and are issued Starfleet technology (Pike uses a Starfleet communicator because it's his "work phone", but private citizens can use whatever they want). Yes, when we look at ship names, the all start with USS because they are Starfleet vessels and we're watching a show about Starfleet in which Starfleet officers have access to Starfleet records. But private transportation companies absolutely exist in the Federation. Not everything is Starfleet. Assuming that every Federation citizen is a Starfleet officer just because that's the only job we tend to see in the show is like watching CSI and assuming that everyone in Las Vegas is a cop. I'm sure there are other news outlets on every single Federation planet as well, but the Enterprise crew probably doesn't give a shit what's trending on "Betazed Today" or "The Week on Rigel IV". There is no evidence of the Federation government micro-managing the daily lives of private citizens on their planets. In fact, dealing with the respective leaders of Federation planets and sometimes even arguing with Prime Ministers and colony leaders is the basis for a massive number of Star Trek episodes. Usually, the Enterprise will visit a Federation planet to help them out with a problem (like a natural disaster or disease outbreak), or assist in a scientific or industrial endeavour (mining, terraforming, archaeology, new technology), and while there, they take their cues from the planet in question. They don't tell the planet what to do, they ask what they need and then do what they can to help. When the mission is complete, they go on their merry way an leave the planet/colony/whatever to go about its business. The colony or planet is free to govern itself however it wants (as long as it follows basic Federation law, like "no human rights violations"- ie, the same laws we have now).
Also, this must be mentioned: you completely ignored the most important tenet of Starfleet's mission of exploration: the Prime Directive. Yes, when you think of "exploration," you think of men like Columbus and Cortez, and the disastrous effects of their expeditions are exactly what the Prime Directive is meant to prevent. The Federation has made it Starfleet's #1 rule to NOT influence, indoctrinate, or otherwise interfere with another world's natural development. Once a planet has achieved space travel, they have the option to join the Federation (after meeting certain requirements, like maintaining peace and not having slavery and stuff), but until then, they are to be left alone. We can study them from afar (or from up close, if enough precautions are taken to not be noticed), like a nature documentary where if you see something awful happen, like a lion tearing into a gazelle or a baby turtle getting stuck on a beach, you have to stay back and let nature take its course.
Now, of course you can argue that Star Trek characters violate the Prime Directive on several occasions, mostly when their conscience just wouldn't let them stand by and watch. And you can argue whether or not they made the right decision in each instance- in fact, many of the best Star Trek episodes are entirely about this argument. It's kinda the crux of the show. Star Trek has always been about debating the moral implications of its characters' actions, and usually there are no easy answers. I'm a big fan (duh), but there are times when I disagree with a decision that Kirk, or even Picard, makes. But that's okay- there's room to disagree, there's room for differing viewpoints, and in the world of Star Trek, there aren't good guys and bad guys, just people trying to make the best decisions they can. But I digress: yes, you can point out that even though the Prime Directive exists, it usually only comes up when someone is thinking of violating it. But that's the point- it's the *exception* to the rule to break this rule, and neither Starfleet nor the Federation tolerate doing so. It's never been entirely clear to what degree if any the Prime Directive applies to private citizens (I think none), but a Starfleet officer who breaks this rule is subject to court-martial, and will probably lose their commission.
Compare the Federation to the Borg. Now there is the ultimate Fascist state. No individuality, no freedom, encountering other cultures exclusively to assimilate them. The Federation values diversity, and you can question this tenet- in fact, it is questioned more than once in the shows- and that's fine. It's welcomed. Hell, how many times have we seen Starfleet captains question the very supposed values they are sworn to uphold, or ask how their society can be improved? Captains routinely enter such quandaries into their logs, which are sent directly to Starfleet HQ via subspace. And no Thought Police have ever shown up. How many Admirals has Captain Picard yelled at because he didn't agree with their orders? And yet he's never been demoted. How many military organizations can you think of that are so forgiving of an officer directly questioning a superior with little to no consequences? Yet Starfleet principles make it very clear that officers are expected to think for themselves. "The first duty of every Starfleet officer is to the truth, whether it's scientific truth, or historical truth, or personal truth." This is not the philosophy of an organization out to brainwash its members.
I also feel the need to point out that we do often get glimpses of outside, non-Federation perspectives on the show. I agree it's rare, but then, it's actually kind of not. Most encounters with "bad guys" ensure that the motivations of said bad guy are clear and understandable, and if we were on the other side of the viewscreen we'd probably support their actions. Non-Fedaration characters have called Starfleet or the Federation out on its hypocrisy more than once, encouraging the characters, and the viewers, to do the same. Yet it is this questioning that hopefully leads to a richer understanding of the world in which these characters exist- a world that isn't perfect, but always tries to improve. We've seen numerous occasions in which a Starfleet officer must cooperate with a Romulan only to discover that while they may come from different cultures, they are both doing what they think is right. Sometimes you can see and understand why the Romulans are suspicious of the Federation, or why some Klingons think that allying with them makes the Empire weak. Star Trek lore is filled with sympathy for opposing points of view. Yes, we see things from the perspective of Starfleet because it's a show about Starfleet, but that perspective is anything but narrow.
I usually like your videos, MatPat. I find them well-researched and often quite convincing. But Star Trek is clearly not your strong suit. You made a case out of minor, circumstantial, cherry-picked details, but ignored the entire underlying philosophy and lore of the franchise. I know you were "questioning" that philosophy, and that's a good thing- as a Star Trek fan who knows it well, I really enjoy hearing new perspectives on my favourite show that allows me to view it in a new light. If Star Trek has taught me anything, it's to keep an open mind and challenge my own preconceptions. I clicked on this video because I hoped you'd make a really interesting case. But from your faulty premise (not knowing the difference between Starfleet and the Federation), to leaving out any mention of the Prime Directive (which obliterates your argument that the Federation is interested in indoctrination or conquest), to your insistence that we never see situations from the perspective of non-Federation citizens (that perspective may not be the focus, but it is almost always present), I think we're going to have to call this theory... debunked.
RAE M this could be a whole new video
Very well said! You analyzed the false premise and twisted evidences of this CZcams commenter very thoroughly with substantial facts and logic. LLAP
RAE M like the answer to my question and to be quite honest with you i do find both points entirely plausible, I have to go with the fact that I have seen enough Star Trek to know that your theory’s evidence stacks up. I can therefore verify that Matt pats theory is in fact debunked.
Star Fleet is a military branch... So yeah... He is conflating their military branch with their free society.
too long to read....
I came from the future. MatPat is now DadPat with a fun.....
*gets beamed*
If you think that's bad, try being a Dr. Who fan! He never stops! XD
Only a few minutes in and already I'm thinking "all I want in life now is to see these series from the viewpoints of the Klingons, Romulans, Cardassians, and Dominion."
Yes. This would be amazing. It would give a thousand different layers to everything.
What does the Dominion think of the Federation?
*What does the Dominion think of the Borg?*
@@efulmer8675I'd assume what most of us think of the Borg, "Go away. I'm not trying to become the hybrid of the Terminator and Tyranids."