Ignore the Player Efficiency Rating, LeBron James should be the NBA MVP | THE HERD
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- čas přidán 27. 02. 2017
- Colin Cowherd still thinks that Cleveland Cavaliers star LeBron James should be the NBA MVP.
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About The Herd with Colin Cowherd:
The Herd with Colin Cowherd is a three-hour sports television and radio show on FS1 and iHeartRadio. Every day, Colin will give you his authentic, unfiltered opinion on the day’s biggest sports topics, and co-host Kristine Leahy will bring you the latest breaking sports news.
Ignore the Player Efficiency Rating, LeBron James should be the NBA MVP | THE HERD
• Ignore the Player Effi...
The Herd with Colin Cowherd:
/ colincowherd - Sport
Who do you think is the NBA MVP this year?
Colin Cowherd
Colin Cowherd not Lebum
GLO • ENT L
Colin Cowherd Lebron
PER is a great stat, but it has major flaws. The shooting % and turn overs does not affect that stat as much as it should. To make it effective you should combine it with win shares, and there you would have a more valuable and objective stat. LeBron, Chris Paul, Kevin Durant would always lead the league if you combine it. Those should always be the MVPs.
I wonder how Skip Bayless felt hearing this lol he uses PER in his arguments all the time!
Only when it benefits his argument. If he's arguing for the case of a player with low PER he'll avoid it like the plague.
Lol yeah but LeBron led the league in PER for how many years? And LeBron hits a 3 pointer to send the game into overtime, literally the next week he passes to D.Will31 for a wide open 3 and Deron misses, and LeBron doesn't have a clutch gene?
Heat Lifer LBJ looks for best play available.
oh LBJ hit same game winners in playoffs as MJ
plus more winners in reg season
LBJ fg percentage higher when PER leads
JH n RW too many TO's n also fg percentage low
k
I used to think PER was an important stat...then I seen this
19) Step Curry
22) JaVale McGee
richiswhere LMAO
richiswhere he probably saw this right before going after Shaq
richiswhere yeah Its a "cute" stat you throw around but flawed
Looooooool
the genius of that arrow, bravo sir...b.r.a.v.o.
Damn, we ignoring stats for Lebron now ? This shidd getting out of hand lol
Chris paul has a better PER than magic johnson, basketball is more than just stats wich makes it really subjective and hard to judge
Shadow 0876 do you even pay attention to the PER?
***** I'm against him by saying we're ignoring stats ? Lol ok. I guess I'll ignore stats when I debate my favorite players
jeppep95 Funny how he always says "LeBron will pass Jordan in every single stat" Colin just says what he needs to to make LeBron look better.
hector cervantes Him and Nick Wright do it. It blows my mind
This shouldn't even be an argument. If Westbrook is so clutch then let's talks about the turnovers in last year's WCF. Seriously, no one makes your team better than LeBron. Cleveland's stats with and without LeBron prove that.
What about thunder stats with and without Westbrook?????
Bill Jordan you know why it looks better for LeBron? Because folks say he has super teammates and all this help but when he sits they have a losing record. we all know harden or Westbrook teams are not crazy talented so people don't expect them to win if they sit while for the Cavs it's the opposite
Kevin Love won 40 games in the Western conference w/ a bunch of no names, so I'm pretty sure he can win 45 w/ Kryie/Tristan if the team was constructed around those 3 instead of LeBron.
The reason the Cavs struggle w/o LeBron is b/c the offense is designed for SPECIFICALLY LeBron which is why Love RARELY posts up but rather hangs out at the 3 point line to open up driving lanes. When LeBron is out they don't really have a drive & kick guy as Kyrie is more of a shooter who drives looking to score.
Instead of Lebron, you could have a guy like Otto Porter play the 3 & have Kyrie/Love run pick-n-pops similar to Isaiah/Horford.
Sabelo Masemola it's for this season not over the course of LeBron's second tenure with the Cavs
LeBron is not really even trying to be MVP. What is interesting is that even when he is not trying to be MVP, he is STILL seen as one of the most valuable players. You cannot doubt the influence he has on his teams performance.
how come when it comes to brady we give a plus to having a good coach and scheme and with harden its a negative? some of these media personalities are stupid
Vee Perkins, you are exactly correct. The media has an agenda and they push narratives. Brady never gets any blame, but all of the credit no matter how poorly he plays. He is the only athlete that gets that benefit, which is ridiculous.
Vee Perkins colin is a bronsexual and brady lover thats why
Percy Bedford that's why when Tom Brady throws a temper tantrum he's passionate and when anyone else does there immature
Good thing he's just a radio guy , not some analyst. He has to imply stats because he never played nba therefore he doesn't have credential .
Because Footballs not basketball. basketball players can come staight outta high school
kristines facial expressions are so cute😘😘
Conor McGregor facts
Evil LeBron why?
L You Virgins Make Me Cringe lol
Goat you're the 🐐 for that comment
She needs to stay in her lane tho
Cave are 0-4 without Lebron and they're the 3rd best team in the NBA after the Spurs and Rockets
SONICdaGOON so the warriors are a tennis team i get you
Elijah Mwamba lol hes the biggest warriors hater youll find well hes top 10
rushking20 #TerribleTowels Frank Jack is the biggest Bronsexual/Warriors hater in the comments
3rd best? damn lediva fans all of a sudden get amnesia...CLE had a losing record in Jan against mostly mediocre WCf teams. but hey don't let facts get in the way of your opinion
Arturo Luna do they have a losing record in February??
Hate when people make the argument Lebron should be the MVP every year because he goes to the finals every year
When he won his first 2 MVPs they didn't even get out the east it's about what you do in the regular season not the playoffs
trevion sewell But its been proven that when he doesnt play, the team struggles. Bron said it himself, "check his win percentage". MVP stands for most VALUABLE player, the player who contributes the most to his team's success. Technically, thats LeBron.
trevion sewell remind me what happened to the Cavs during the 4 seasons after those 2 MVPs?
He won those MVP's cause he was literally carrying teams averaging 42mpg
THANK YOU!
Curry's Dad want a cookie ? He's not the first and won't be the last Allen Iverson averaged 41.6 mpg his last 6 years in philly
The MVP award process is so flawed. It's not genuine. The media keeps inventing new reasons to prevent Lebron from winning the MVP award. He's the undisputed best player in the world AND he's been to 6 straight Finals. I realize Lebron can't win MVP every year, but he hasn't won it since 2013 - and he is unlikely to win it this season. And each season, a different stat or storyline becomes the justification for keeping Lebron out of front runner status. We've moved way past simple "voter fatigue" concerning Lebron. There seems to be a clear media agenda to prevent Lebron from matching MJ in certain accolades. I believe that's also why the media didn't give him DPOY when he deserved it both in 2012 & 2013.
Cornell Cannon it's not just Lebron they won't let catch Jordan. It's basically an unwritten rule that Jordan's awards can't be matched. You can thank Jordan's shoe sales for that.
No they don't invent anything. It's pretty much the player with the best stats/PER on a top seeded team. And if it's close, it goes to the team with more wins. Lebron hasn't won last 3 years b/c durant and curry had better PER and more wins.
scoop245 - That's the problem, which is Colin's point. PER is being over-valued. It's a flawed stat that isn't a true indicator of value. It's one stat, not the end-all-be-all. Don't kid yourself though. KD, Steph & Rose are MVPs because the media has Lebron Fatigue.
Cornell Cannon PER is not perfect but it's the best stat we have on value. It alone does not give someone MVP but it is the best indicator. That plus winning. MVP is how you perform in the reg season, not if you're the "undisputed best player", how many times you went to the finals or clutch time. And of course the cavs play worse w/out lebron. Same with any other MVP candidate.
Once again, KD and Curry had similar stats, but more efficient and more wins. If it was reversed then Lebron would have won those MVPs.
Cornell Cannon...Durant and Curry have MVP's because they are both superstars who DESERVED it...Rose won because of Lebron Fatigue...Colin is wrong because he is confusing PER with clutch...clutch is not something that can be evaluated or measured...at the same time PER is not the only thing that should be evaluated but the media only concentrates on PER...they fail to analyze win shares, box plus minus, and replacement player value...these are just as important as PER
Westbrook has the highest clutch stats in the NBA right now , so I prefer him to hav the ball rather than LEBRON at the end of the 4 th quarter
SmileMore lol name one game winning shot he's hit in the playoffs? I'm talking buzzer beaters.
SmileMore id take it4 over everyone
no, having him hold the ball is a perfect way to never win anything. his "clutch" stat is false here. since he is the one to shoot the most from his team of course he will score in the 4th which the clutch stat uses to "clutch %". it does not mean making the last shot but a combine points of the 4th, 5 mins left, 2 mins, and 1 min left in the clock.
Pilot Tone we are talking about MVP which is based on off season , also check out Westbrook Agaisnt clippers in the playoffs
SmileMore lol revisit game 6 against golden state last year. Russell folded like a cheap tent in that 4th quarter
Player of the Year sounds better than MVP
All the people who had better Fg% than westbrook strictly dunk the Basketball and never really shoot
ObeyBeeno Kevin Durant
Im just saying for guards you gotta give them slack because the people with the highest efficiency ratings are centers that catch lobs and never actually shoot the basketball form 22 feet out like westbrook
Jordan never shot?
He is the goat sooooooooo and also he had two ppl to rely on if he was off westbrook doesnt
Stats are subjective, I've seen Westbrook make a triple-double and lose, PER doesn't account for intangibles that make up great players.
OKC win % when he gets a triple double 79%. Win % when he doesn't 36%...so those triple doubles matter...a lot.
Geraldo S bro ... did u just say stats are subjective .... you may want to read a dictionary
ur mom A triple double doesn't guarantee a win, therefore in Westbrook case, I can't look at subjective stats to gage his importance to his team. You can't be objective with Westbrook stats because they hold no true value.
Guarantee PER will come up if Kobe and LeBron were being compared. So many excuses for LeBron these days! 😴
jaylenjordan2007 they don't have to use PER, Lebron is better than Kobe in just about every stat lol
Phil Purefoy Stay wise yes but I would still take Kobe over LeBron.
Brons a better scorer, rebounder, shooter, passer, defender, only think kobe has over him is free throw percentage.
Phil Purefoy yeah and westbrook and harden are better than lebron in virtually every statiscal category. are they better than lebron?
TheDAWinz Defender? Kobe 9 all NBA 1st team selections! Don't be a hater now.
Problem against Colin's argument for LeBron. When stats work for LeBron he uses it like crazy, especially earlier in Brons career. Now people have had better seasons and deserves the MVP over LeBron, it's not about stats.
There numbers are higher but Lebrons Win percentage, +/- ,and shot efficiency are better than Harden/Westbrook.
RJPointer plus LBJ numbers are
26
8
9
great numbers n on cruise control
RJPointer i think it speaks more to good coaching and team building. so youre saying a team of roberson, oladipo, adams are better than kyrie, love and tt?
Yeah it did it when Rose won MVP over Bron in 2010-11. He compared them side by side stat wise...not that that the stats aren't in LeBron's favor...stats don't matter.
When u take 12 shots make 9 score 20+ that's lebron Westbrook or harden take 30 shots to score 30 plus if u watch okc they all move out the way so Westbrook gets the rebound if cavs did that lebron would avg 20 rpg easy !!!
Great point Kristine
Hahahahaha did Colin low key said LEBRON is more clutch than Westbrook 😂😂😂😂😂
I mean Westbrook isn't clutch in the playoffs so...
He is. Bruh look at the facts. Anyone with a brain can see that.
SmileMore he is ... why is this even a discussion
Because it's true. Prove him wrong.
SmileMore westbrick* he's also more clutch than Durant, curry, kawhi, shall I go on? Numbers don't lie. Media and haters do.
The analogies this man makes are hilarious 😂😂😂
the way they do the player efficiency rating makes no sense. I think stats can only tell you so much anyway and if you really want to know how efficient a player is you should just watch their actual games, but if you wanted a stat to try to describe their efficiency there would be much better ways to do it than PER.
did Kristine purr at the end? lol
excellent commentary
once again my man Colin with the funny but logical analogy lol
There is a serious flaw in the PER algorithm if a guy is 1st in the NBA while shooting 42% and averaging over 5 turnovers per game.
Max Gilliam can you explain what PER is? ..sorry if its a bad question
Can we just stop the LeBron hate for one moment so we can appreciate how FINE Kristine Leahy is?!! I mean my lord!!! 🙌🙌🙌🙌
Exactly.
Win Shares would be Colin's favorite stat
at 8:26, how do those two percentages not add up to 1.000?
North Dakota sucks I got to college here :/
Colin out here hating on North Dakota. I've been to California, and I'll take North Dakota 10 times out of 10.
How you gonna make fun of the PER but then go on with some "per 100 possessions" bs
I've never heard anyone say hey let's go visit these top 5 states tf BRUH
"people are fleeing out of connecticut" lmao throwing some shade at the decline of espn are we???
"Where do they go? To a state with a bad PER."
he said the skiing? as in coke? lol
It's the Kings Reign... MVP every year but average people don't like to see sustained greatness!! Weird human condition lol
3:48 RUSSELL WECKSBROOKS
TheVida031 made me chuckle
TheVida031 read this then heard it
its crazy how Tom Brady is in a system that fits him... but he's the best player ever.. but harden is in a system that fits him... and its just the system... we gotta stop making narratives for some players and others get no love
I wish he would use the minute to go narrative when comparing Lebron and jordan
"I can't handle stats, so uhhhhhhhhh give my guy the MVP"
Here is my impression of Kristine "but Colinnnnnn.. why cant all of the players win MVP??!? They are all good!!!" Everyone gets a special participant trophy at the end of the season. Colin must want to hit her on a daily basis.. because you know I am right and that is exactly what she is thinking through this segment lol
Westbrook 42%? Well he is out of the MVP race as far as I am concerned.
there is no fatigue, the fact is that 2 players are having a better season than him. Russell and Harden. Its a FACT, no one can argue it, maybe between them two, but dont add Lebron. He is the MVP of the NBA, the player you would like to have, but its a season award... cant people just understand that? ITS A SEASON AWARD. Also the name of the award is dumb, it should be BPS: Best player of the season.
Damn the disrespect by Colin to not mention Kobe
"Lol the people in California" im sleep
Colin back at it again with the analogies
Wienz l He can't help himself
Atleast he didn't bring up his divorce
Points about LeBron are pretty fair and accurate, Your strange rants about living in different states is way off lol
my sentiments exactly, California is a beautiful place but the rent and housing prices are crazy high. The commutes are insane. Air quality, water availability, etc. That probably discredited his correct stance on LeBron to many who were on the ropes and undecided about PERs.
It's probably a whole lot cheaper to live in ND than in California tho.
he's absolutely correct
Kawhi is the real MVP.
Daniel Yankun lowkey he has such little help and still gets wins . Imo its harden,kawhi/kd
Commandosoap777 he has help and a great coach.
Daniel Yankun nope
NOT!!!!!!!!
Daniel Yankun finally
Same thing that happened to Jordan when he played voter fatigue
Yes
Tf hes saying with a minute left on the cavs you want kyrie to have the ball
Colin, don't talk bad about Dr. J. He hit those shots in the ABA
BET commercials be too long
i think we need to clearly define what MVP means to us. is it the person with the best stats? is it the person who means the most to his team's success?
one of the reasons north Dakota is rated higher than cali or new York is you could own a 2000 square foot house on 40 acres in the woods for the same price as a 1 bedroom 500 Sq apartment in Los Angeles.
You're describing apartments in NYC.
but in the last 2 minutes is kirie with the ball in his hands.
Mvp is harden and tbh I think his case is so strong that wins might not even play apart
The conversation about the states ranking... I'm not going to talk negatively, but that's a conversation for certain people that know about culture, politics and economics.
PER nerds lmaoooooooooo
Analysts saying Harden only benefitting from a coach that fits his style when he's been dominant under 3 different coaches. Plus, what's the Rockets front office supposed to do? Put a system around Harden that doesn't fit his style?
I actually agree with colin here i feel like PER of all the advanced stats is one of the worst i feel like a players on/off stats or RPM is way more indicative of a players impact on the game
Minnesota is top 5 in something on this show. Finally!
Nobody should ever be using single stats (ESPECIALLY COUNTING STATS) as a by-all-end-all argument, stats should be used to frame your argument. If you had to use only ONE stat to determine a player's value, PER maybe one of the more accurate stats to use (that doesn't mean it's a good stat to use by itself, not stat is), but even then real BPM is a better stat to use and you shouldn't ever be using these stats on their own or with only counting stats. Make sure to use context, advanced stats, tendency stats, point out anomalies and even stats that don't support your argument.
Yeah I think it's bs,Curry won 2 MVP'S recently and somehow he went from a hero to zero, how ? Well GSW have 4 very good players and somehow Curry is worse because he doesn't carry the teams offense ,when there's a one star in a team OFCOURSE he I'll score alot OFCOURSE he'll get assist ,rebounds etc.
If the MVP goes the the guy who I would want in the fourth quarter then the MVP goes to Isaiah Thomas, but that wouldn't fit in with Colin's argument so lets pretend he's making a good point. The Houston rockets are seeded between 13-15 in the west without James Harden, the Cavaliers are seeded between 4-7 with Kyrie and Kevin Love leading the team. James Harden is the Most *Valuable* Player in the NBA.
LARRY113Z whoossh I get the James harden part but 4-7 they got shlacked by the bulls last time the king didn't play
You can build a system around Kyrie and Love. You cannot build one around Eric Gordon and Ryan Anderson. If Kyrie was used to playing as a true PG instead of a combo guard, you'd have to believe Kyrie and Love would figure it out throughout the course of a season.
PER isn't even an accurate stat.
i know this is kinda unrelated but has Colin ever thought that maybe the reason Dakota is weighted higher than California is because California is so massively overpopulated? It's a tourist trap where it takes forever to go anywhere, so densely urbanised and built up that it's pretty awful. Places like Dakota get higher ratings because some people like clean air, space, natural environments, wildlife, etc etc
Why are there 300 million in the USA and 1.3 billion in China and 1.2 billion in India ?
The population size is not an indicator to quality of life
Colin your analogy for this topic was horrible and we're not asking who the better player is, we are just talking about the Regular Season" MVP, not who i want with the ball in my hands with a minute left
Connecticut Pizza > California Pizza
Nah...
Westbrook has hit 3 game tying shots and 1 game winner in the final 5 seconds this year. LeBron has hit 1 game tying shot. LeBron just gives it to Kyrie and sits back in the final minute. Westbrook is way more clutch than lebron
NO, Clutch matters in the playoffs. Playoff Lebron is a different breed. Lebron one of the best 4th quarter players in the league still.
Don't put Lebron in the same clutch category as magic, bird, and MJ. That's ridiculous.
I feel like Colin doesn't realize that the "NBA nerds" use a lot more statistics than just PER. PER is one statistic that can be used to see some things well while other statistics show other factors well. No one relies on just one statistic all the time.
No self-respecting advanced stats fans use PER smh. It's all about TS%, RPM, and % stats.
LEBRON ALL THE WAY UNTIL HE RETIRES
I don't understand why people say stuff like "Last Harden finished ninth and LeBron finished 3rd in the MVP voting last year." When Curry was a UNANIMOUS MVP. What do you not understand about unanimous? It means if you weren't Curry you didn't receive any votes, which means Harden wasn't ninth and LeBron wasn't third.
Hypocrisy and stupidity had reached all time high in the NBA and the so called "analysts"!!!!! I wonder how many people are on Leflop's payroll; directly or indirectly!!!!! I won't be surprised if this same genius shortly start discussing if having 4.3 TO or being 3rd (or 4th) in the league in TO is a good thing just because Lebron is the best passer in the league especially when he throws the ball to nobody, just like "its not a bug, it is a feature" type of thing.
the media used to use PER as the main argument to claim LeBron was the best in the league and better than kobe before he had any rings....now ignore it? lol wow.
Colin is 100% correct on this one!!!
I always feel like this woman hates her job....
PER seems to underrate point guards
is it because they tend to have more TO since they handle more?
I dont know, it seems really complex. guys like isiah thomas rank really poorly
Westbrook's PER in clutch moments is 51
then that case Kyrie Irving should be MVP if we're going by who we want with the ball in their hands. lmao
Michael Blackshear L
I pose two questions to you Colin Cowherd. 1. Who else was sitting out/injured when Lebron was not playing and lost? 2. Who were they playing when the lost. Don't dismiss stats that don't fit your narrative in place of other numbers if you aren't willing to be objective about them.
It's called education
Colin I was kinda with you until you said that only games 3, 5 and 7 matter. while I get that those can swing a series, if the other team wins 1,2,5,6 then it really doesn't matter
Colin hates on small market teams and cities for no reason. Just because you don't understand why people live somewhere that doesn't make it bad.
He loves the Cavs. What are you talking about.
HipHopR&BLover Jon He loves Lebron, he would trash that city and franchise in a heartbeat if Lebron wasn't there.
The guy is right, period.
I guess that they use the MVP thing to combat the LeBron's fatigue
I wanna live in peace away from 93 million people!!
Field goal % is such a stupid aged stat that is completely irrelevant.
This guy names everyone but KOBE as hitting clutch shots! What a Clown!
Colin, you need to stop taking Russell's talent away because he leads a stat.
what game clutching shot lbj hit to win a title? please someone educate, I remember kyrie and Ray Allen saving lbj legacy. what shot he hit to seal the deal
But you bring up Tom Brady and his coach and scheme but J.Harden it's a bad thing smh lol But this guy voted or agree he was for S.Nash when had the same coach and system
well its not kawhi's fault they playing a team basketball in san antonio
Colin how many more clutch performances does Westbrook need before you trust him with the ball in the 4th?
I think regular season MVP should be like finals MVP (best performance on a winning team). Give the regular season MVP to the best performance on a top 3ish seed. Like 2 years ago, Steph is the best player on the warriors but iggy got the MVP
TheCephalon no. they sometimes give it to someone even if they lose.
Drecyn Dyson no they don't. That happened once, to jerry west in the literally the first year that finals MVP was invented and they basically acknowledged that it was a mistake because it's never happened again in over 50 years
True
@ Colin: You want to make your show better?.....Turn down the volume when you speak and point the camera at Kristine!