Why F1 Wheels AREN'T STRAIGHT | feat
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#Formula1 #Engineering #F1 - Auta a dopravní prostředky
As an engineer and a budding sim-racer, I think this is my favorite video of yours so far. It perfectly toes the line of technical explanation and real meaning for the adjustments without becoming an hour long tuning course.
Great stuff Scott! I've got some new things to think about while tweaking my car in ACC. Speaking of which, please show ACC some more love on Trophi! Especially the Huracan Evo 2 😉
So glad to see a collaboration between my two favourite motorsports content creators! I’d love to see more technical explanations from the two of you! Keep up the great work guys!
Rear toe-in actually creates more stability by effectively lengthening the wheelbase through corners. It actually makes the car less nimble. For example, in a left-hand corner the vehicle load is primarily on the right side. So if the rear wheels are toed in, the right rear wheel is actually turned towards the left. This is like a car with rear wheel steering having the rear wheels turned in phase with the fronts at high speeds, which promotes stability. If you wanted the car to be more nimble, you would want the rear wheels to turn opposite to the front wheels. Which is why cars with rear wheel steering have the rear wheels turn opposite to the front wheels at low parking lot speeds. But having toe out in the rear for a race car would make it far too unstable to be practical.
renault laguna had it on one model rear wheel steering
It's not lengthening the wheelbase, its shortening the moment arm of front axle and opposite on the rear, effectively moving the grip balance rearward. But what we feel in car has more to do with inertia, as toed-in car requires less rotation to reach cornering angle, reducing the overshoot rotation after it has been reached.
Also rear toe out not being a thing in racing isn't really about stability. Its about grip balance, because loaded tyre has higher peak grip slip angle, so only a toed-in setup can reach peak grip on both tyres at the same time.
Rear wheel steering is nice but no need to go as far for rear toe changes... many older porches (due to space limits having engine where suspension links would like to go) turn the rear wheels into the corner as hard or harder than typical RWS does through bump steer (and there are cars with opposite effect but that's rare).
i keep the rear as straight as possible for less rolling resistance
front little bit of toe out and neg camber for agility
back cant do much with leaf springs (falcons) and solid axles (go karts)
mainly for low horsepower high pace
I was not expecting Verstappen's former engineer to be an American.... That was weird.
Lower tyre pressure and the resulting extra tyre flex also helps (and hinders, depending on the situation) in building tyre temp
Funny but long story My weekend warriors suspension is completely adjustable (ride height, camber, caster, toe) and I spent a good month every weekend dialing it in. Every time my neighbor would come out and say “you broke something again”, even after I clearly explained it to him. And he wasn’t joking or being pedantic he literally couldn’t understand it. Flew straight over his head every time. The chick across the street understood perfectly, even his wife got it. He just doesn’t get cars and how they can be your passion. He would tell me “You must hate having to do that” when all I hated was him…. Lol
It's like reading a book and someone keeps asking if you're doing homework because nobody could read books for fun that's hard work... Like nah fam, I just have an IQ over 70 and I like to keep it that way.
> a good month every weekend
lol
@@KevinJDildonik yeah you know a month so 30 days but just on weekends, so 30/2.
Edit: I didn’t graduate college, I grew up poor. Lol
Glad you guys crossed over with Brraakkee or however he spells it. He seems like a great guy with a ton of technical and analytical knowledge of F1 cars. I’d love to see him be successful in this
They have reverse Ackerman front geometry because of weight transfer meaning the outside wheel can stand more slip angle. They aren't designed to be driven slowly 😊
A collab a I didn't know I needed.
Awesome content.
Love these videos and perfect timing. Still play Grand Prix 4 which helped me learn so many setup best practices before I even really understood the concepts behind them. Looking to finally upgrade to newer sims soon and many have additional things like pressure and camber to contend with so this will be going into the favourites!
This was a great explanation of the various suspension settings on these cars. I’ve always wondered how they are able to get it set back up correctly when a driver destroys a corner and all of those parts need to be replaced. It’s not like you ever see them doing an alignment in the garage.
Speaking of high cars.....I drove a Vauxhall Zafira VXR around Thruxton once. The front tyres deserved a mention in dispatches.
Great collab, I have been watching his channel from time to time :).
Scott, what about a series about the pitfalls and idiosyncrasies of the current F1 tracks? After this weekend I imagine there will be a lot of things to talk about from LosVegas.
Absolutely love these sorts of videos. 👍🤙 Totally nerd out for 16 minutes. 😆
Great video! I love these kind of technical videos and this one’s especially good cause now I finally know what all my settings in sim racers do
This is a particularly good video, a topic I don't think some of more recent F1 fans understand. All those mechanics swarming over the car during practice and qualifying have a lot more to do than placing the cooling fans and wiping the car with a polishing cloth. I think there's a tendency to think they drive nearly the same car at all times, or maybe they set it all up at the shop using simulator data and just run it that way. That's never going to be the case. The simulator isn't perfect, it's just close. It can't know exactly how the pavement aged over the last year, fully incorporate any pavement heaving or new patches that occurred since their last visit, or deal with normal variations in temperature, humidity, or the likelihood of rain.
I already knew why Lance's wheels are always facing in different directions but thanks for the vid
Some towards the wall and the other rolling down the track
Thanks Scott, this is perfect for dabblers like me and an ideal jumping off point for my mate Dave who is going deep into the Sim Racing rabbit hole
Saved for future reference. 😎
Toe in and toe out increases grip due to the scrubbing effect. The maximum grip occurs just before the tyre slips it’s known as the slip stick effect .
This is mega it helped me alot and please we want more car setup videos please ......... thanks🙏🐐
as someone that learned skiing on straight planks.... That sounds like the difference between those old old straight skis compared to carving-skis.
This Explains it Very Clearly
I play 2 mobile tacing sims and yhe drift focused one has tire wer simulation, some setups definitely wear lower than others. Good thing they added time attack mode recently I can test these parameters there.
I was just about to ask about Front Anti-Dive and Rear Anti-Squat!! And Push - Pull rod systems... and there it was in the last minute!! Thanks
Man you could've easily just made a video about the toe-in/out and covered the title. But this was really in-depth and really interesting, thanks!
Fantastic video; very informative. I went and gave this dude a sub (the Texas flag being just a bonus).
Why is this more informative then my actual works training back when I was learning alignments 😅.
Good Deep dive guys. This is quite a deep subject as much of it is largely to do with rider/driver preferance.
I look at this as a Forza sim player. The whole tuning the suspension was paramount to building a great car. You wanted to build as much mechanical grip as possible without applying to much downforce slowing the car. I’d spend hours watching the heating across the tires when at track speeds. Next was how compliant the suspension was. Getting the bump rate was pretty straight forward but getting the rebound rate was much more complicated. When you hit the sweet spot the car would be a pleasure to drive.
First I thought that the diagonal tire contact is longer that shorter straight contact but I know it's deeper than that too.
Thank you very much for this video! Amazing !
As an mech eng student in Germany, trying to compete in Formula Student, this was extremely helpful. It fits well into our lectures and gives me some pretty important english technical terms!
Was ist Formula Student?
@@Mercenaryow I'll answer to that in english so our fellow readers can understand this :D Formula Student is an engineering-design competition where students of the technical faculties design, build and race a formula style car.
@@battlebooms6429 cool! I didn't realise there was such a thing. But of course, engineers also need new blood. I wish you every success there!
@@Mercenaryow Thanks very much!
That's nice to see, I am also a student in Germany working in a Formula student team, it's nice to see other formula student members watching the same videos !! Also might I ask which team you are currently in ?
quick math 800kg*5g/4 each tire with contact patch the size of your palm is actually pushing the road ~1000kg towards the outside of the turn (and same reactive force tranfered to the car towards the inside)!
Toe has an aero effect. Toe in increases the wake on the inboard part of the wheel, toe out reduces it. Of course for the effects to be significant you have to run like 5 degrees of toe, not realistic or practical. Outwash inboard of the wheel does the same thing as geometric toe out from an aerodynamic sense.
Scott, I love your technological insights. My father introduced me to motorsport as a young child. However, he was a romantic and a bit halcyon about the grand prix he attended. I am always interested how cars work and not necessarily how good the driver is.
This is the video in needed as a kid playing gran turismo
Straight lines the causes for the wings at topend to keep ground. 3 wires and natural order.
one thing the sims/games could do would be to better represent graphically in the settings window, how any settings would actually affect the car. the amount of camber represented graphically such as in this video would be a great help with new drivers/players
Forza motorsports & horizon 5 are really good with the depth & realism of the tuning. But they just give a description iirc. A diagram/picture should definitely be included for those not already familiar with all of it
Mercedes W11 has something to say about that
LOL 😂
We use to run our back wheel out of line, Toe to the right on speedway bikes, to keep the bike straight, when conering/keep the bike running in line...... 👍🏁🇬🇧 Although on speedway, we only turn left! Lol 😂
This is exactly what i needed, now imma try these out in assetto corsa
Just as a train has its steel wheels set on an angle on the railroad tracks so it will go straight but if you put the wheels square on the they will go into themselves
Tire Pressure is like the A and O of Motor Racing
Anyone can change the toe settings in their own car and experience the effect themselves. Quicker turn in or stability vs tire wear. Of course camber and caster. Rather than spending thousands on mods, a simple wheel alignment adjustment can do wonders for performance. Unless you go nuts with it and make everything worse.
I would like you to break down the driving style of your dad, and his way of setting up the car. That would be such a treat…
brrrake just told us that AM’s performance drop was due to the flexi wing TD, but then they reverted back to their old aero package and got fast again. Whoops.
Interestingly, camber, caster and toe is actually something that all road cars have built in as well, though it's obviously not for performance, but to manage the wear of tyres, and they do have to be adjusted every now and again, and tyre pressures is obviously something as well, but that is more common knowledge than the others
It is also for handling and performance as well as tyre wear, road car setup is a compromise between many factors, if it were set wrong you'd pretty soon be complaining about fuel economy, lack of manouverability, heavy steering and picking bits of your car up off the side of the road after you'd lost control and smashed it up on a corner.
@@M0UAW_IO83 Well yeah, i just mentioned a few, as i didnt want to get too much into it
Common misconception in here about the effect of camber on contact patch area. Camber doesn't affect TOTAL contact patch area. Contact patch area is simply a function of tire pressure and load (weight). So a tire inflated to 20 psi supporting a 400 lb load will have a contact patch area of 20 square inches regardless of camber. Camber affects the SHAPE of the contact patch and therefore the distribution of stresses within the contact patch which can have a large effect on grip. Otherwise brilliant presentation!
Sometimes the camber like in brazil is super visible or spa...it even looks funny
I loved this video! As someone subscribed to Blake’s fraudulent podcast(s) and his extra website goodies, this was really excellent. He is so knowledgeable. I hope the two of you collab again!
Far Early , Benz F1 car can adjust toe in/out while racing by push down & pull up the steering wheel❓
Which racing series uses straight aligned wheels? i'd be interested - I 've never seen racing car wheels aligned straight !
Interesting that they typically run toe out at the front. Can anyone tell me whether they use Anti-ackerman steering geometry to reduce that toe out with steering angle?
Spreading the load.....
Got it.
Very interesting, thanks 👍
What if there was a way for your wheels to automatically adjust the camber angle to maximize grip, improving acceleration, breaking, corning all while extending tire life and improving fuel economy?
That's active suspension
That level of active adjustment isnt even made, itd most likely weight alot though, it might be slower then manually setting it up
@@dsdy1205 I dont think that impacts camber. Just damping and spring rate i believe
The total weight added to the car would be very minor. The angle adjustment would be calculated by and onboard computer weighing less than a smart phone. I'm the patent owner this concept.@@12th.jahlil
It is honestly a shame how little wiggle room for adjustments related to the tires the teams actually have. With how tire development has progressed to try to provide maximum durability and consistency, it really has killed the unpredictability of tire strategy during the races.
In part this is a safety issue. Too low tire pressures can be faster and yet cause damage to the tires leading to failures.
That’s what you get with a single make in a high level series. There’s no competition so tire makers do what they want and blame the teams if there’s a problem.
Rather than design a tire that works with what the teams want they’re designing tires for what they want and making the teams try to figure it out.
Love your content❤
Why is the side-skirt at 12:45 censored out?
I still do not understand how to out gives you more bite when the weight is going to be over the outside wheel more.
This was a great video.
even your normal car the wheels dont all point strait forword with front wheel drive they point slitly to the outside to compensate voor the power on the wheels that will pull them inward
Not true - look up the target parameters for any fwd car, you’ll see they always toe in.
Manufacturers prioritise customer desire over engineering knowledge.
You are one of the the best and combined with Blake...$$$
I thought heave springs/third springs were banned with the new cars?
I had my slalom car set-up with toe-out. Faster "turn-in"
With tyre pressures @ 20psi how do they get the responsiveness out of the steering?
Especially with the old cars running 15 inch wheels.
Because contact area has nothing to do with friction. The contact area has to do with the structural integrity as well as wear and tear on tires. People never distinguish the physics involved when talking about "traction"..
@@Dyson_Cyberdynesystems
I'm not talking about the contract area.
However the contact area is directly responsible for how much friction there is. Bigger contact area equals more friction.
I'm talking about low pressures allow the rim move. Lower the pressures in any vehicle and the steering becomes less responsive.
@@Robert-cu9bm I mean. I'm not giving you an opinion. Friction is completely independent from contact area. It is a product of the friction coefficient of two materials and the normal force applied to the contact plane. Tires would be less "responsive" because the tire structure collapses under lateral forces. You can counter for that with structural sidewall reinforcement or lower profile tires..
@@Dyson_Cyberdynesystems we're taking about contact area and friction on cars. The
More contact area on a car the more friction you get.
F1 must have really stiff sidewalls then.
Do some drivers ever prefer understeer?
This was great
Why or Where is MIT in chassis builds
The contact patch is really only the area of your palm? Isn't that less than a typical street tire?
Just found out about this as well. Wonder how small the patch is for old grooved tyres
7:55 lol
im an engineering student and want to have a job in motorsport but too bad we're at a different part of the globe
Vote 1 for Scott to drive the Bloodhound LSR. C'mon big guy step up. 😊
i dont like many videos, this one got one.
They would go faster if they could get the wheels straight. A common wheel alignment for around £100 would fix it for most cars.
Very interesting!
But what confused me a bit was the fact that he was american or talked like an american I mean I was expecting a british accent since many or majority of people seem to be british on most F1 teams.
I understand why they are there but I feel the tyre supplier shouldn't tell the teams how they should setup the car. I mean it almost become the case when Pirelli has their min. tyre pressure, camber etc.
Wait so what's the point of antidive if you are already riding on the bumpstop going into braking anyway?
It's always a trade off! If you have more Anti-dive you can run "less" stiff - but it's always relative
Good so I don’t need that alignment after all.
Short answer: Because corners!
Toe in is measured in degrees and minutes 😉
Is the DAS the "magic" Ham was mentioning after he crashed soon after warming his tires?
No, he was referring to a brake bias setting. The "brake magic" setting shifts more brake pressure to the front. This allows the front brakes to generate more heat and warm the front tires better. He accidentally turned it back on and cause the front tires to lock up.
@@mr0sparkles4682 Cool thanks. That is what I originally thought.
More videos with blake please
I love this channel but can I make a tiny suggestion. I find it exhausting the way that the audio is edited so that there is no pause whatsoever. I think it's more enjoyable and easier to absorb the information if you don't edit out the tiny pause when the narrator needs to breath.
Crossle @ 2:22?
The loss of of what? From times races to run to have chances causes im coming by knowing. This so beyond mosts understanding
“Spreading the load”
My new favourite video
Finally we talk about settings. People only praise drivers and know NOTHING about how the car works and that this is actually a team sport. All of these settings (that you can easily get wrong) play a massive role that can decide a race (by tyre wear, slow-speed corners, grip ...). And yet even the F1 commentators only say "Lewis wasn't feeling it today".
So this is why Ferrari can have a great pace but burn up tires. They sacrificed tire longevity for higher grip to keep up where red bull needs less camber to keep the same grip with their overall better design, aero and setup.
3:03 He said zero at the rear going over bumps, not zero static ride height. Your analysis of what he said after that is factually incorrect.
Conclusion : setting up an F1 is very complex, fortunately Pirelli gives you very few margins to play with.
Brrrake sounds like atozy
It's annoying to me that toe is commonly stated as a length dimension instead (millimeters) of an angular dimension (degrees). WHERE is the length measured? Where is the measurement relative to? Degrees doesn't need any explanations...millimeters does.
3:07 What you on about XD
Thanks!
Thank you so much!!
suspension you go as SOFT as possible without bottoming out the car.
Every car is an "aero" car, but not every car uses it well.
2 seats is close to a actual car but it is a feeling to that of God given natural frequency or unnatural neuralink frequency causing a overload in frequency causing situations within civilization and well beings.
Same as rc cars 😊