Speak no Evil
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- čas přidán 13. 04. 2024
- If you have a social media presence, subscribe to forums or write a blog or CZcams Channel, then you will have feedback in the form of comments. Today's video discusses the quality of those online interactions and asks if there is enough encouragement, support and collaboration.
- Hry
Well said, it is one of the reasons I don't allow politics or current affairs on the forum I run.
That can all too easily and quickly lead to confrontation and bad blood.
Thanks for sharing your salute video on said forum too!
I don't specifically ban politics or current affairs, but for most part it has absolutely nothing to do with our hobby discussions. Of course there will be circumstances where politics intersects with our wallets or our freedoms, but I try to avoid those subjects. Don't get me wrong, I'm a political animal. I follow politics, I vote, I support a political party... But that's got absolutely nothing to do with my love of wargaming and doesn't belong on this channel. I have no desire to bore everyone to death with my political opinions, no matter how strongly held they are. This channel just isn't the correct forum for those sort of conversations (as important as they are) and I don't think any of my subscribers would want it to be.
Hi Lee; once again I think you have 'nailed it'. The ONLY way to grow the hobby is to be encouraging to newbies (of any age); once they have been bitten by the bug you can offer some constructive advice on how they might improve their gaming/ painting/ modelling, etc. The real trick is to find the period etc. that gets them as interested & enthused as us 'old lags', & get them into the hobby
SALUTE was a clear showcase of where the hobby is going. There were a lot of Young'uns at the show, and a lot of small skirmish games across all genre. Of course I want to encourage new blood into big battle historical gaming, but if that's through a gateway drug like a skirmish fantasy game, then so be it.
@@MiniatureAdventuresTV Yes, I saw the Salute episode. Like you, I am a fan of battles rather than tiny skirmishes... but whatever gets newbies interested is a good start from which they can be shown other 'strings to the bow'
Excellent mate, looking forward to Johnathon’s report.
Here is the link palousewargamingjournal.blogspot.com/2024/04/fornovocating.html?m=1
Well said about being positive. I try my best, but sometimes fail. It's a problem that social media magnifies due to limits of the medium (lack of tone, facial expressions, and numerous other social cues that humans use without knowing how their body language positively affects our social exchanges).
You've hit the nail on the head. I think we all forget that the 'Internet' is still a new technology and as a society we are still learning how to use it responsibly... all the more important to re-read what we have written before hitting the send button!
I used to try and respond to negative comments and moans on my blog (normally criticism of various club shows.) I then realised its my blog, not a public forum and decided I would only allow positive comments to be published. If they want to moan they can publish their own blog.
Lol. Comment Moderation does give you a chance to filter what hits the page.
Good vid, and you make good points. Cheers.
Thank you
I suspect you have a slice of watchers who are more civil. BTW, I enjoy your videos enormously....Keep it up!
All my subscribers are thoroughly fine chaps 😆
Interesting discussion today Lee.
Thank you
Thank you
I have had some mixed experiences while getting into historical wargaming. Some groups are very welcoming and go out of their way, really, to make you feel welcome. And some folks have forgotten that they were once under 60 and seem to think anyone in their 20's or 30's must be a dope fiend who has never even heard of the subject of history, much less wanted to play historical wargames, and are exceptionally offputting.
Luckly I found more of the first sort than the latter. But it does really seem like some people would rather see the hobby die than see young people play it.
I run a Facebook group - not gaming-related - and if people are rude to others experience soon taught me there’s only one useful approach. Block and ban the rude member, because they’ll only repeat their behaviour. Maybe if this happens to them elsewhere too they may begin to realise their behaviour is a problem? My responsibility is to the group overall. They don’t come there to be abused or bullied.
I admire your optimism about people learning to change their behaviours.
I tried to be optimistic. My generation (I've just turned 55) experienced the birth of social media and had no idea how to use it. My children's generation have never known anything other than social media in their lives. They are the ones learning the hard way the pitfalls of the still new technology. And I want to believe that my grandchildrens generation will have learned from everything that's gone before... But as I said I try to be an optimist, so I'm probably wrong. Maybe online interactions will never be perfect but it doesn't mean to say we can't all try just a little bit harder.
@@MiniatureAdventuresTV I'm known for trying, or is that for being trying? ;-)
Very interesting vid 👍👍
Glad you enjoyed it
I always have my worst paint jobs in mind and some pretty bad decisions. That's why I try to be friendly and encouraging to those I interact with online instead of critizising.
Unfortunately, I can't handle harsh criticism and rejection very well at the moment. But that's life... I mostly react non-agressiv or by withdrawal.
The book sounds interesting. Thank you for the recommendation.
I think for me that is the crux of the problem with online discussions. All those non-verbal clues that you pick up on when you were talking to someone face to face don't exist online. So when someone leaves a harsh comment or is sarcastic or just plain nasty they have absolutely no conception of how that will be received by the person at the other end. It's like lobbing a hand grenade but not hanging around to see the damage.
It's still possible to offer a critique or makes suggestions, without impinging on any freedom of expression, simply by rephrasing how it is written.
@@MiniatureAdventuresTV Good point. Even with friends there is a lot of misunderstandings with WhatsApp or Discord, which wouldn't happen in presence.
Great that your old gang of DnDers are still getting together! I'm about to get together with my old gang shortly. Hope your knees are OK...or at least that the pain meds are really good!
I didn't overdo it on Saturday. I sat down whenever I had a chance, and ended the day listening to a Panel so had another sit down during that. My knees were hurting, but not nearly as much as the last time I did Salute.
@@MiniatureAdventuresTV Good to hear!
Excellent!
Thank you.
Well said. No need for negativity- if something really "annoys" you(for example. painting-- weren't we all bad painters at some point?) you just swallow it and move on.
Agreed. I have seen young gamer's put off by perfectly valid but thoughtlessly composed criticism. Offer support and suggestions by all means, but take a deep breath, re-read what you have written and re-compose it to be be a little less adversarial and a little more supportive.
The Audible version of destiny in the desert is great as he reads the book himself. If you enjoyed try his book on the battle for the Atlantic
I'll look it up, cheers.
Good food for thought. I've just started my online journey and haven't posted any of my work or opinions yet, just event videos without commentary. So it's early days, but I'm sure I'll be getting trolled at some point. I'm hoping I can treat it like I'm doing Customer Support (i.e. act as if I'm being paid to be nice regardless) and not take it personally, but you never know until it happens. Of course, having said that, any potential trolls reading this will be straight over to my channel to test my resolve. 🤣
It'll happen eventually, its an unfortunate side effect of being online. But Trolls aren't real gamer's, just people that want an argument, so its OK to ignore them (or block them) and focus on real readers and real comments.
@@MiniatureAdventuresTV I've worked in late-night retail once the pubs have shut, so hopefully I have a tough hide! Thanks for the advice.
I think I will refer to this video quite a lot. Thanks for making it!
I've added in chapters now so you can jump to sections by club.
I think the problem with social media pages their so humourless! Seems that ANY negative comment that challenges anything, is met with a hostile reply.
I think it depends on the type of social media and the audience that inhabits it.
I disagree that we need to exhibit some measure of civility in our forums and online. We can all ignore the dumb comments we don't like and we don't need to moderate speech. In fact, I'd say we need more surly overly opinionated trolls to keep things healthy in the hobby. When I look what happened to RPGs when everyone was forced to get along, it always seemed like a singular certain group of people took advantage of the speech moderation and used to bully everyone else. But what do I know, I'm a brutish American pig and we like to fight.
I'm not suggested we need rules to moderate comments, or limit free speech. But as the saying goes, freedom comes with responsibility and I often wish some people online would think twice before posting comments.
I'm old enough, and ugly enough to ignore the odd harsh comment but if we want to encourage a newer and younger generation of gamer's we all need to be 'nicer' online. Just because someone has put themselves out there and posted their creativity online, doesn't automatically mean they have the emotional and mental maturity to handle harsh criticism. As viewers we have no idea what that persons backstory is, and an unnecessarily harsh comment can do a lot of harm. As my late Nan would have said, if you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all (or at least say it politely!).
I would counter by saying that there are some who believe free speech is free of consequences and others who are incapable of dealing with change. Both my kids and my son in law GM and there are things that are perfectly acceptable to me in my games that would never appear in theirs - and vice versa.
This is normal and an expected part of a growing and increasingly diverse hobby. Orcs are born evil - go for it. Combat wheelchairs are a thing in a fantasy setting? Your game, your rules.
Where I agree with you broadly is that the most strident voices in any online discussion get the most attention and that is not always a good thing. There are a few folks yelling very loudly about "goblinoid monsters typifying the racist-colonialist paradigms inherent in classical role playing games", while others shout red-faced about "how in their day there was none of this here woke BS and we should all play exactly as Gary intended!".
The noise of the two camps can be overwhelming, but most of us are just struggling to get 2-6 people in one place at one time, and to have a game and a bit of fun. Anything we can do to improve the chance of that happening is a good thing.
I get what you're saying, but it does get a little tiresome when you see there's been a hundred new comments on a thread you've been following and you have to read them all to find out it was just a flame war and nothing actually of interest. Reasoned debate trumps shouting matches every time in my opinion.
@@MiniatureAdventuresTV I don't disagree about the responsibility part. I think the community is fairly self moderating in that regards. In fact I'd say wargamers are overall a respectful bunch aside from a few off comments here or there. Its when the social media and miniature / gaming companies get involved....Battletech is a good example of that. Great game, generally great community, generally very accepting but recently got coopted by the side that will not be named that ensured the only speech is their speech. Not a fan of that because they take everything as an affront to their sensibilities and then all conversation is killed because of it. But liek I said, I get what you're saying. Respectful is good and we should strive for that.
Unfortunately, the US is collapsing into medieval savagery, so I expect most of the toxic nonsense might come from Americans like me
just kidding, sorta😆
Sadly its a global phenomenon and asking where it started is a chicken and the egg scenario.
Great video Lee.was hoping to meet up with you at 🫡 salute on Saturday but I have sciatic so couldn't make.
Pity but l understand. It's a big show and physically demanding for anyone with back or leg problems.