Chris Paul and JJ Redick Fascinating Debate About Manipulating The Game
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- čas přidán 5. 02. 2022
- Chris Paul and JJ Redick have a long talk about whether or not Chris manipulates basketball possessions or does he just know the game better than anyone else.
Edit: This conversation is interested when you see the way he's been pursuing Luka Doncic in the NBA Playoff series between The Phoenix Suns and The Dallas Mavericks.
Subscribe to The Old Man and The Three Podcast w/ JJ Redick and Tommy Alter on CZcams today. - Sport
Pure basketball discussion without the drama. We need more of this
Facts
This is a fantastic conversation about basketball man.
*Stephen A has left the chat*
Well, Everybody in the NBA appreciates the game more than Stephenie Curry!😎😎😎
@@afuriousblackman Stephanie Curry just left over his Trash Career for everyone to laugh at!!😎😎😎😎😎😎
Chris is telling the secret to his longevity and he knows most pros won't put the effort to achieve.
@Festy Haniya shut up
Chris Paul’s secret is the same as lebrons secret bro… over a million dollars spent a year on nutrition and proper rehabilitation of the body… except he doesn’t rely on athleticism like lebron so it’s easier to keep his body intact
100% giving away the "secrets" doesn't mean anything unless guys put in the tape time & work. Alot of guys just like playing basketball at a high level & mastering skills or abilities. Only certain guys actually study it and master it strategically. That's a different level of mental energy & effort.
@@m_js5709 only certain can
@@Zer0Edits00 All athletes this day in age spend a good chunk of money on their bodies, especially elite ones. Moreso than that is what they have ticking upstairs! Their basketball minds in addition to remaining in great shape are what are keeping them among the best. A lot of players can physically still do it into their 30’s but not all have the IQ and chess mindset to control games night in and night out.
“A fan said something crazy to me in Utah”
“Shocking” 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
You know the way Chris Paul says “ but why doesn’t everybody else realize that.” As average human working being. I’m almost sure Chris Paul would be successful in anything he would have done if it wasn’t basketball. Detail oriented people
The fact that CP3 was right about the rule and the ref was wrong just proves how bad the refereeing of the game is today.
fr refs should get fined for instances like that
NBA refs aren't perfect by any means but they are the best in sports. College hoops, NFL, Umpires, all atrocious. NBA refs are pretty consistent.
@@drewfleming5584 lmao 🧢
Give me FIBA/Olympic refs please.
@@charl_lee they don’t pay them enough to do that
CP3 and Kobe would have been perfect for each other. I like the fun years we all got with the Clippers but man, CP teaming with Kobe is such a big ‘what if’ in NBA history. Two guys completely basketball obsessed.
I feel like at the NBA level, everyone is basketball obsessed. It's just different levels of obsession.
@@AB-nv7fk nah there are 100% guys in sports that are just so talented they make professional level but never are actually that fussed about the game. Just cos you’re an athlete doesn’t mean you ‘love your job’
@@PacketOfCereal deron Williams is a perfect example of this
@@youngwolf024 Julius randle, Ben simmons
Would’ve got a chip, we’re seeing a mini version now with an older Chris and Devin who’s similar to Kobe(of course no where near as good)
Chris gone be an amazing coach one day if he chooses that route
He may win more championships than as a player.
He's smart enough, but I don't know if he has the people skills to be a good coach.
@@T-Add have you heard of Pop? Yeah...
If he can motivate people he could be a great coach. But sometimes he got on the bad side of teamates for being too demanding as a player.
Point guards make good coaches
All great players “manipulate” the game.. they cater the game to their play style and from the outside looking in you’d call it “manipulating” but all the greats do it
yep yall always wanna roast harden for doing it but all the greats do it
to some extent yes but some greats are known for their game manipulation (lebron) and other greats can manipulate the game, but most of the time its because of their straight up talent (mj)
@John Smith that's the crazy part, he's nowhere near as physically gifted as those guys and it's incredible that he's able to score the way he does at his size, but his mental acumen makes up for all of that
I'm agree bro
It’s fixed
"Jersey's untucked! Jersey's untucked! That's a delay of game!"
I love CP3. He always plays the game inside the game.
I’m glad you like it, but it’s chickenshit basketball. In baseball, they call it bushleague.
Yeah it’s cheap ish. Because dude will cry if it was the other way around.
Okay and?
@@adelinesarkissian8161 to be fair, CP did that when it was crunch time n they were down like a point. It’s not like their cheating or anything, but they ARE competing for a championship
@@davclutch4721 Yep! And they won that game.
(They had 1.1 sec to go in regulation. CP calling out the untucked jersey, Gallo knocking down the tech FT, and that Steven Adams to Schröder full-court pass, led to them tying up the game, then winning in OT!)
I was just talking to someone from Phoenix who hates Chris Paul, says he's dirty and abuses refs to get calls. This video came in clutch to show him that CP3's competitive stamina and mindset is just different
Who is this person. They are a suns fan and they hate Chris Paul. That’s stupid af
@@maciedixon3983 Ikr? I'm from Detroit and would be thrilled to have a player like Chris Paul
@@CitizenoftheWorld1 ofc you do, everybody in detroit don't give a fck how their guy does it as long as he gets the job done. 😂
@@dion4670 Lmao facts 🤣
That fan you talked to is absolutely right. He whines, complains, and bullies the refs to get the calls that no one else gets. Keep rooting for him, it just shows what a coward you are.
It's a beautiful thing to hear former players debate the game, and this applies to every area of life when experts debate respectfully. The listeners learn a lot. Please do more of these J. J.
Chris Paul and Lebron James are just savvy veterans which is becoming rarer in today's NBA.
Lebron is savvy if the definition of savvy is not getting back on defense while you argue with the ref
Savvy as in both Chris and Lebron think the game at an elite level. 99% of players will just rely on their talent. Chris and Lebron see the entire court like pieces on a chess board. This includes the refs.
@4:00 is the little details that great coaches notice. My HS coach ran an out of bounds play. Depending on which side we take the ball out of the play is ram for a different person. Makes even more sense that my coach moved up to a D3 school who had never won more than 5 games. At one point they were 3rd in the country.
Don’t hate the player, hate the game… or refs
I feel like you can definitely use manipulation in a playmaking sense. Coming downhill, give a look at the corner to get the low man to hesitate for just a split second or he fully commits to the corner shooter, and then you dump it off to a cutter or your roll man. Something of that nature.
It’s the same as a crossover move just more mentally and strategically
@@riddickflowe Stephanie Curry can’t even do a simple Crossover cuz he’s trash!!🗑🗑🗑🗑
That term manipulate in basketball reminds me of Larry Bird
There's an Australia rugby league player, Cameron Smith, whose career has been somewhat marred by similar accusations. He is considered one of our greatest ever (in that sport), and I don't recall him ever breaking a rule; I don't agree with everything he's done, Chris Paul has done, Bill Belichick has done, etc. but at the same time these are three absolute genius'/all time greats in their respective sports, so maybe there's something in hyper intelligent athletes being more prone to figuring out sneaky ways to win. Be thankful they're kicking or throwing balls around and not looking after anyone's retirement funds.
“Learn the rules like a Pro, so you can break them like a Artist”
- Pablo Picasso
CP3 controls the Tempo of the game & sets guys up for success by putting them in their best spots to score.
CP3 is tactical when he plays unlike Russ who is used to drawing double teams with his fading superhuman speed & jumping ability to get assist.
🎯
It's not manipulation if you know the rules and you use that knowledge to take advantage of those who don't bother to learn the rules as well. He knew the rules so much that he had to tell the ref an untucked Jersey was a tech, that's not his fault the Timberwolves didn't know or bother to learn about that
@D Cam Yeah all these people offended by the word manipulation lol
google is free. search up manipulation definition. this is what you get "handle or control (a tool, mechanism, information, etc.) in a skilful manner."
That’s not manipulative 😂
That’s strategy.
I’m from the UK and football (soccer) is my main sport but really starting to love basketball, so interesting to listen to CP talk about the ins & outs of the game
I love how Chris is trying to manipulate JJ into not saying he's manipulative
He does not manipulate the game. He understands the importance of film and he studies it. It's a chess game what's the best plays/actions for the team to succeed. He's just smarter than other players to understand the game more. You can tell why he's a leader in the team because he understands the game. He will be a great coach one day.
This man is just very smart. I really really think he would make a great coach, but I just can't wait to hear him analyse a game. My gosh.
Manipulating as a word just have a negative connotation. CP3 is all about efficiency. He will do whatever gives him and his team the best outcome each possession. That's why you study the game and it's intricacies to get to the level of IQ CP3 has. So much of the game today is just straight up freak athleticism and it's so refreshing to see someone just nonchalantly dismantle team's defenses with IQ
Manipulation most times has a negative connotation. Influence would have been a better way to explain it.
If something can be managed a certain way, CP3 will use it to his advantage. You need to be a student of the game to be able to do that, and he clearly is one.
Wonderful conversation.
I appreciate this discussion and it's awesome to get an inside look into the depth of the mental game. And, it's not just that Paul watches every game, it's that he clearly is looking for and absorbing the finer details.
That being said, I wouldn't call this manipulation so much as intense strategy. I think the chess analogy is a good one.
5:58 lmao JJ said it best
Can we get a link to the full interview?
Best interview 🔥
I m in love with your podcasts man.....jj great work
Chris is an absolute mastermind. Unfortunate he still has no ring.
The amount of trying he's done to get one will see him in the hall of fame and personally I'll find that comforting almost as much as it did seeing McGrady make it
Chris was definitely getting hung up on and taking manipulate as a negative term. Doing an initial action, knowing full well what the response from the other party will be so that you can take advantage of the known response IS manipulation. If I'm gaurding you 1v1 and I take left step forward and angle myself like this \ I am manipulating you to go to your left (my right).
Manipulating is a weird word. In your example You’re testing to see if you can get away with something. If the defense is ready and cuts off your initial move, what did you manipulate? Nothing. If they don’t react, you take advantage. In chess if you’re setting something up to see if the other player falls for it, did you manipulate them if they don’t take the bait? If they countered you, did you get manipulated?
@@andrewr439 no but you're still trying to manipulate the other person. Success doesn't disqualify an attempt. If you are intentionally taking an action, with the purpose of that action getting an assumed/expected response from your competition, then you are trying to manipulate them. Whether they do it or not is different.
The lob city clippers was my fav modern team so fun 2 watch!
great stuff, but JJ misuses the word manipulate. CP3 is just a smart player who understands the game and makes great decisions.
I think JJ means "maneuvering" not "manipulating"
Love when Chris and Jj talk… it’s so real and I learn so much
now THATS a real basketball conversation. so good
I'm from lewisville, where cp3 is from. Grew up 2 mins down the road from him actually. And I'm a big Duke fan, jj was my favorite player when I was 10-14. So this is such a fascinating podcast episode for me.
This studio/room is messing with my vibe man.
But the content is sweet 👌🏽
Savage point guard. And he's gonna be an even sicker coach if he chooses and I believe he will as much as he loves the game
I think Conditioning is the term they are looking for. He is conditioning the other teams to make decisions that hurt them.
James Harden for example, manipulated the hand check rule with his style of play.
Did they change the thumbnail after game 7?
Man this is great. Awesome convo, ring or no ring CP is a winner
For me manipulating the game is doing things like no look passes, head/eyes fake, looking relaxed and accelerating all of a sudden, breaking ankles with off ball movements, knowing how to position your body to get fouled and just thinking and seeing 2 moves ahead.
And most elite players do these things, especially great playmakers : Lebron, CP3, Bird, Magic, Harden, Doncic, Trae Young, Jokic, Curry, Rondo, Ja Morant …
When these players are on the court, you can put any players around them and the offense will still look good and fluid, but as far as seeing 2 moves ahead, the 2 players that impress me the most are Lebron and Luka, a lot of times they don’t get the assist, but they made the pass/move that made it possible for their teammate to make the assist, watching Lebron and Doncic play is really like watching a chess match sometimes.
What you're talking about is skill and savvy. What JJ means by manipulate is the mental aspect and the know how. How CP3 uses certain matchups on the team, certain plays, weaknesses, calls, so on and so forth. Not individual skill as a player.
@@gray_gogy strategy
CP is looking for the best advantage on every single possession. He's better at it than everyone else. And he enjoys the chess match of outthinking everyone else.
I love it. Dude is awesome.
"We ain't at the zoo...I talk back"
💯
👏🏽 Chris Paul reminds me of this guy at my work who can do 3 peoples worth of work ~ nice interview
CP3 made me fall in love with the game. He is pure basketball.
It’s not manipulation JJ, it’s intellectual control. I’ve been watching the nba since 1993, he’s the smartest player I’ve seen since that date. With Lebrun coming in 2nd
Subbed
Well, in every sport if you could put your opponent out of his confort zone, is way easier to win. That could be manipulation, but is also strategy. In certain way, every player could use the knowledge of the game to win, is just part of every sport.
Can you be a good point if you dont manipulate the game?
Chris sounds really meticulous about how he plays the game of basketball.
He'll become a great coach
how does this affect Lebron’s legacy ?
Where does Kevin Lee fit into all of this?
Appreciate you for the podcast JJ, shout out to you Tommy. This man Chris Paul is a once in a lifetime talent, greatest point guard in the game and one of the best all round, take it in while you can everyone, Suns this is it, perfect harmony to watch when its right and thats almost every night. Showing Love from the UK London. Blessings
Bring the other one of the best BACKCOURTS in the NBA
Wouldn't call it manipulating I would just say CP3 is smarter and knows the game more than others
The problem JJ is having is that he and CP3 have a different definition of manipulate. CP3 onset like the negative connotation that comes with the word manipulate but JJ is not trying to use the word that way
Big fan of the nba in general, cp3 is just a phenomenal PG but i cannot deny the fact that he flops
Manipulate to me would be working around the rules to your benefit. What guys like Chris and Lebron do is being a great strategist and floor general. All the greats do that. You aren’t great if you are reactive and fail to prepare. These guys prepare and know the best ways to work with the rules for maximal success.
CP3 is a basketball savant 💯
8:05 ya heard that Kyrie??
It's a FULL TIME job.
I understood 20% of what they were saying and enjoyed 100% of it
This really puts the strategy of the NBA into perspective. Most players don't know matchups that well, they don't watch enough film. CP3 is literally just saying to watcht he film, it's not that hard.
That's why the NFL is so different, only 16 games. You'll watch 5-6 games of film just of YOUR MAN for a week, strategizing. In the NBA, the games come n go so quick, there's very little strategy involved with the majority of the players.
Hometown player right there. Wish I would’ve gotten to see him play in highschool.
Amazing content beats everything espn or any other sports channel could do and without vip or plus subscriptions JJ's going on becoming the steph curry of sports journalism.
This is Golden.. Thank You JJ..
When he called old mate for not having his shirt tucked in, delay of game, free throw 👏🏾👏🏾
They’ve talked about more technical basketball schemes in this short clip than ESPN has discussed in the past 5yrs. ESPN has no problem discussing schemes w/ Football but Basketball they just discuss personalities and stats.
This is so easy to watch and listen to
Only the guys have that mastered the game and their craft are able to bend the game with their skills and strategic thinking
Fans opinion of Chris Paul before this interview: he’s cheating, he a flopper, he’s dirty!
Fans opinion of Chris Paul after this interview: ah, what a competitor!
Having a legal advantage at all cost doesn’t equal manipulation. It makes you top tier at that thing you do.
i think the issue is the negative connotation with the word ‘manipulative’
Manipulate is the not best word to use but I understand what JJ is saying because Chris influences the game fairly. He skillfully controls the game in ways most players can't.
I wish I knew…
To all the kids watching this, pay attention to the mindset of a professional. In anything you do; professional sports, Doctor, Lawyer, Engineer, etc…it’s your work ethic and individual drive that sets one apart from everyone else. In Hollywood they call it the “it” factor. Not everyone has this naturally, some develop it through struggle. Embrace the struggle and come out the other side refined.
Maybe instead of the word 'manipulate' because everyone tends to not have a good consensus of what that term means on the court - I feel like the right way to conceptualize what CP3 & LeBron do is "taking advantage of unwritten rules in their favour".
should have mentioned the time he told the ref about someone elses untucked shirt.
You can add Rondo to that list of players who manipulate the game
Listening to this, I can’t but think how he and Kobe would’ve been. Damn :(
It’s basketball IQ. Dayum.
Chris don’t understand the fans don’t want to see that without us it’s know game
I know CP3 has an amazing basketball IQ. I get it. But can we take a moment to appreciate what a great interviewer JJ has grown to become
Strategize would be a better word for manipulate
A better word than manipulate is influence.
Didnt Manipulate Dallas Game 7 too well!🙊
The word "manipulate" has two different meanings.
1. Control using skill and cleverness.
2. Control unscrupulously using deception or unfair tactics
The conversation is switching between these two usages. This switching is diminishing the conversation.
That is veteran speak and it comes from a high B-BALL I.Q and experience. C.P.3 is specialist surgeon 😷 when he is on the court..mad respect for his knowledge.🎯🎯💯💯👍
It's strategy!!
Tom Brady needs to be asked this question on here! Please
kinda weird to call it manipulation, when it`s just making the most optimal play in given scenario.
He anticipates the best outcome per possession and acts on that anticipation. THIS IS WHY AS THE GAME COMPTROLLER HE INFURIATES OPPONENTS. I still think in Houston they would ve been better with him in a 1 guard front because making him into an off ball ie. James harden , jj Redick movement person did not maximize his on ball playmaking skills. The okc and later James harden could move without the ball and was better in like floppy action. Cp3 spent too much time idling on the left side while James now heliocentric put up historic consecutive 50 point games and honed his dribbling and step back skills. They needed a corner 3 shooter . Otherwise it was James step back step through runner , finish or lob to capella. Cp3 s mid range elbow dominance and corner 3 passes went unused . It didn't work. The whole thing was deflated and players moved on.
Manipulation isn't necessarily a bad thing. It's just that the word is typically used to describe immoral or unfair manipulation, but manipulation isn't immoral or unfair by definition.
Should of ask him is take on when he would of been traded to lakers to join with Kobe !?
Not manipulate - dude is just competitive and a thinking player.....there's a stigma with the word manipulate/d that has ZERO to do with the Webster's definition....
That’s why Tatum said that he hates CP3 as an opponent but would love him to be a teammate.
don't call water 'toilet liquid'. don't call an educated move a 'manipulation'.
save manipulation for poisoning someone's food. or turning up the heat in the other team's lockerroom. that's manipulation.
CP3 is using the RULES of the game to his advantage.
maybe CP3 does manipulate the game, but there wasn't an example of that in this clip.