BMW E36 Turbo/Supercharger Tuning: Full Tutorial
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- čas přidán 31. 07. 2024
- #BMW #Tuning #ForcedInduction #Turbo #Supercharger #Romraider #MS41 #Ignition #Fuel #Wideband
MAF Scaling Spreadsheet (Credit to ba114 Murray Allen) - Feel free to donate:
github.com/ba114/MAF-Scaling
Part Throttle & WOT Fuel Tuning Spreadsheets (Credit to busterhax/a32guy): www.romraider.com/forum/viewt...
^(MAKE SURE YOU'RE LOGGED IN TO SEE THE FILES)
Additional credit to the Open MS41 Development Team:
OpenMS41 provides a shared repository for understanding the Siemens MS41 family of ECUs (MS41.0, MS41.1, and MS41.2) for the purpose of providing the hobbyist with the means of tuning and calibrating their own ECUs. Most of the research thus far has been for the MS41.2 variant.
The MS41.2 OBD2 tuning project was started by me (Abhishek Shinde) in August 2012 and slowly worked on over the years in my spare time. Many tables have been found for the MS41.2 ECU used in a 1996-1999 USDM M3 and the ability to write to the ECU has been developed by Kim Freding, as well as Kyle (busterhax) who has developed MS41 Quickflash. Since then, several people have used the definition files I've provided to tune their 6 cylinder BMW engines; some even with Forced Induction!
Dale Schultz is our RomRaider implementation expert and has made huge advances in the ability to datalog the ECU based on information discovered by Mika and Alec.
Murray Allen was able to develop a much faster method of datalogging an MS41 ECU by experimenting with alternate ways to send serial messages to it. The result is a much more user-configurable data stream and speed can be as high as 15-18Hz depending on how many variables are logged. Though, for typical tuning purposes enough variables are needed to bring this down to about 10-12Hz, which is still sufficient for being able to tune most engines in 3rd or 4th gear.
Of special note, is Alec (d_munter) who setup the raw hex code in IDA and interpreted the disassembled code to identifying various functions/subroutines. Together we have used the reference documents to generate a lot of understanding of the ECU logic as well as defined a lot of maps. This project would not have been possible without Alec! He has taught me a lot about disassembly, which I have used to further analyze the code, as well as write my own custom code.
Original Contributors
Abhishek Shinde - mrf582
Alec - d_munter
Kim Freding - xbyte
Dale Schultz - dschultz
Mika - pheno
Kyle - busterhax
Abel - Enabled
renneimer
Tom Kelly
Dave
EVILM3666
Todd Williams
Robert
Murray - ba114
???? - pazi88
00:00 Intro
03:06 Injector Scaling
9:00 MAF Scaling
21:00 Ignition Tuning
24:10 Part Throttle Fuel Tuning
33:30 WOT Fuel Tuning
38:23 Drivability/Special Functions
40:42 Knock
41:50 Outro - Auta a dopravní prostředky
This is so generous of you dude much appreciated!
About this Project
OpenMS41 provides a shared repository for understanding the Siemens MS41 family of ECUs (MS41.0, MS41.1, and MS41.2) for the purpose of providing the hobbyist with the means of tuning and calibrating their own ECUs. Most of the research thus far has been for the MS41.2 variant.
The MS41.2 OBD2 tuning project was started by me (Abhishek Shinde) in August 2012 and slowly worked on over the years in my spare time. Many tables have been found for the MS41.2 ECU used in a 1996-1999 USDM M3 and the ability to write to the ECU has been developed by Kim Freding, as well as Kyle (busterhax) who has developed MS41 Quickflash. Since then, several people have used the definition files I've provided to tune their 6 cylinder BMW engines; some even with Forced Induction!
Dale Schultz is our RomRaider implementation expert and has made huge advances in the ability to datalog the ECU based on information discovered by Mika and Alec.
Murray Allen was able to develop a much faster method of datalogging an MS41 ECU by experimenting with alternate ways to send serial messages to it. The result is a much more user-configurable data stream and speed can be as high as 15-18Hz depending on how many variables are logged. Though, for typical tuning purposes enough variables are needed to bring this down to about 10-12Hz, which is still sufficient for being able to tune most engines in 3rd or 4th gear.
Of special note, is Alec (d_munter) who setup the raw hex code in IDA and interpreted the disassembled code to identifying various functions/subroutines. Together we have used the reference documents to generate a lot of understanding of the ECU logic as well as defined a lot of maps. This project would not have been possible without Alec! He has taught me a lot about disassembly, which I have used to further analyze the code, as well as write my own custom code.
Original Contributors
Abhishek Shinde - mrf582
Alec - d_munter
Kim Freding - xbyte
Dale Schultz - dschultz
Mika - pheno
Kyle - busterhax
Abel - Enabled
renneimer
Tom Kelly
Dave
EVILM3666
Todd Williams
Robert
Murray - ba114
???? - pazi88
Description of this video and links have been properly updated
Appreciate you taking the time to make this video. There is a lot of information out there, but it is hard to digest it all. Kudos to all the original contributors who have made this all possible.
Just found your channel.
Subbed and liked 😊
Wanted to thank you for the time and effort you've put into it and for the wealth of knowledge you're sharing with us all.
Im not quite there yet but learning as much as possible before i got FI route on my e36m3! Thanks for the help.
This is great. Thanks for all the time and effort
Much appreciated. Learned the basics from your video and have tuned many e36s now.
Great to hear!
Thank you very much for this great video.
Best regards from Germany
Thank you for sharing. Really appreciate it.
such amazing information, thank you
Yo bro, you have no idea how long I have been waiting for something like this 😭.
Same here! I'm surprised there's no other videos covering it. I don't want tuning to be a secret anymore haha
@Canyon Tuned it really has been. I've owned e36s for 11 years and this is the first time I've seen anything on being able to tune it yourself.
you're the only guy doing in-depth videos on e36 tuning, i really appreciate it as im about to start a project of my own
thanks man!
This is going to be my project this spring. Overdue for a proper tune on my old supercharger kit and start thinking about piecing together a turbo build. I've got the old vf engineering supercharger kit in my 97 M3. I'm the Robert in OpenMS41 list above. Good to see that the old project kept moving. I still get people asking for access to the files in the repository.
Love the wiki page, although the guys behind the ms41.3 custom code I'm not a fan of how they're going about the release. Hopefully they can make it easier to access and learn in the future
Thanks allot!!
Have you looked at Speediuno M52. I didn't even no this one existed. Very nice solution, open and extensible.
Yes, but it requires a lot of extra fiddling. Megasquirt is the more polished version or the same thing
Dude you are a plethora of information,I'm planning a budget oriented E36 build in the near future with my 95 325i vert and tuning has always been an area I have blown my budget more than hoped for ,tuners being for away when it comes to those who knows certain platforms etc.tow bills and Dyno time , hopefully with your advise I can write a decently safe tune until I'm able to get my 325i on a Dyno with a real knowledgeable tuner to get it dialed in properly
Keep an eye on those knock sensors and make sure your fueling is safe and you should have no problem!
🤝
I saw that MAF scalling spreadsheet before. I think ba114 made it as it looks identical.
Is there any reason you didn't credit him>
Description of this video was just updated to give credit to original authors and contributors. Thanks
@CanyonTuned Great video, a lot of help for us. One ting I believe is wrong in the injector scaling : when you install 95% bigger injectors, you have to reduse the injection times (due to the increased volume of injected fuel per millisecond) in the case the fuel tables have to be multiplied by 0.95, not by 1.95.
Correct. This has been mentioned many times in the comments. I'll try to pin yours so others aren't mislead in the future 👍
You are also wrong. You have to do old inj cc / new inj cc = around 0,511 in this video example and multiply by that so you almost half the duty cycle.. I've personally installed bigger injectors on a m52b20 and adjusted it for E85. It ran a MS41 though but still the same. There I also added around 40% fuel so the formula was old cc/ new cc * 1.40
Awesome video love the enthusiasm and the insight of tuning. I’m assuming you’re running pump gas. Would love to see some video information about alternative fuels and maybe water method Injection your thoughts on those
My opinion is to use methanol as a "safety net", not an octane booster. Simply use it to lower IATs and don't push timing relying on the system to be there always. That being said E85 you can increase boost/timing substantially but I would go the flex fuel sensor route and an ECU that knows what to do with various ethanol percentages. Again, leaning towards safety
Hello, I'm an active member at the RomRaider forums. The scalar you are using for the Nissan MAF is wrong, it was modified by users request after multiple tests. But it looks like it was affected by counterfeit MAF sensors. I uploaded a spreadsheet with the scalar calculated directly from a 350Z bin file, also I attached other spreadsheets and filter formulas for MLV that might be useful for you. Check it out, I personally had problems with that scalar from the spreadsheet you are using, bad idle, and cold starts mostly. You can find me with the username of Caatz. Useful video though, thank you very much😁
Also you must be careful as there are many, fake Nissan MAF out there... Mostly on ebay. You better buy it directly from a dealership or get it second hand. I made another post explaining the differences between a fake and a real one... I got scammed too 😢
Awesome thank you! I'm dealing with drivability issues with the Nissan maf myself, I might actually switch to an 803 maf since I have one on hand now
I'm only new to this stuff but if you use bigger injectors, don't you want to Decrease the pulse width to get the same amount of fuel sprayed, not Increase it?
Yup good catch, totally slipped my mind. You want decrease by the % difference not increase!
I was about to write similar comment 😃 for example what I did to get good settings to start fine tuning when I replaced stock greentop injectors to 580cc EV14, multiply stock fuel maps that stands for injector pw by 0,287 and after that car had already pretty good drivability for logging
@@niko7090 Exactly what I did when I swapped injectors, I just used the wrong math in the video haha
First off, thanks a ton for making this video. question: how is the engine kept safe during initial logs before any fueling is done? or does the injector scaling help.
Usually I bump up the additive/multiplicitive fuel learning tables to like 50% allowed correction first. I also take a bunch of timing out of it at higher load cells. But usually the scaling math is fairly close for closed loop
you're the f*cking boss
Bro i need your help! My fuel/ignition axis is at 700 how do i correctly set these up? Ive scaled my maf in the full read but im not sure if that automatically scales up the axis columns or if i have manually change them or how to correctly
There's a Load X Axis table you can use to rescale, just make sure your values in the tables are also adjusted as well
Hey i have 1000cc injectors so im trying to figure out what equation you used to get the percentage in increase
www.calculatorsoup.com/calculators/algebra/percent-difference-calculator.php then you just need to find the stock injector flow rate. Also it's a percentage decrease. I made a mistake in my video. You want your bigger injectors open for that percent less time
Really useful video! What 3" housing did you use for the 226807s000 MAF sensor? And any info on how it is wired and connected?
I found a generic housing on ebay, and just look up the wiring diagrams for both vehicles and match them up. If I remember correctly there's a temp sensor in the Nissan maf that's not used. 3 wire vs 4 wire
If I am just upgrading the maf do i only need to update the maf scaling?
Also I see in the video that you pasted the values into the 2048 table. Do you do this even though your using 1024 and leave the 1024 table as it is?
Great Video, how did you wire the wideband into the DME to get it on the log? Is there a spare input? Thanks for any help.
I used a serial to usb cable and wired up the output from the wideband to that. I have 2 usbs plugged in. 1 for the dme and 1 for the wideband. There's a drop down at the top of romraider to select a 2nd usb connected sensor
Hi kindly which pin am I supposed to connect the resistor
I'm not sure the wire color but it's the 0-5v that goes back to the ecu
Hi kindly assist on the subject of Nissan MAF how do i connect it to an e36 ie the pins
Find the pinouts of each and match them up. One of the pins on the Nissan maf is for iat which is not used
When does a resistor for the MAF become necessary? Could you have no resistor running 6 psi 7psi no issues or will that potentially max it out?
“Nissan maf”
It's hard to say because they're two different units of measurement right. You have airflow vs manifold pressure (psi). You'll have to see where a Nissan mafs airflow limits are. Personally...if you really want to do things the right way, throw a megasquirt ms3 pro or VEMS ecu on it and drivability will be much better. Speed density is the way to go
Dude you are helping me so much with my bmw z3 turbo project!
Romraider dosnt work with my m43tu BMS46. But the other Information is glorius.
Do you know how I can get the Maps to my computer so i can edit it?
Thank you
TU motors are the red headed step child of the BMW tuning world. Very little support and map definitions out there. If they don't exist in the romraider forums you're out of luck
@@CanyonTuned Yes it is like you describing. I should make a youtube channel xD in emergency i can spent money and buy a programmable ecu, lets make it happen :D
Tank you!
I know you went with VEMS for the improved resolution of the MAF tables. Is this something that could also be addressed with the porsche or 540i 3.5 MAF or does it take a combination of the 2 to get good control over your air fuel setting. I see a couple of tuners who continue to sell tunes with matched injectors and mafs fairly successfully in the 500/600HP range.
No, I went with a standalone ecu for speed density. You can certainly buy one of these stock dme maf tunes but honestly Drivability wise they never run right. I think it's better just to get a megasquirt plug and play or VEMS. It's worth the extra couple hundred dollars in the long run. Especially if you actually want to drive your car
@@CanyonTuned PnP OBD2 Vems is 2200usd so quite a bit more than a couple of hundred bucks. Did you find a cheaper way?
Megasquirt pnp is $1200 usd
The vems is $1100 usd. Idk where you got that number from. Maybe two of them? Lol
Quick question.
14ms with a 200cm³ = x amount of fuel.
Thats why if you swap for bigger injector with no tune it will run rich.
14ms with a 400cm³ = 2x amount of fuel.
Would it need to do half of every value to keep the same afr to start with ?
Correct you would need to take your entire fuel table (which is injector opening in ms) and reduce the opening time by the percent increase or decrease of your new injectors. That will get you in the ballpark but you still need to do a logging session with fuel trims for the final correction. Some injectors don't have predictable fuel flow across the injector opening range
@@CanyonTuned yea tuning it after is another story. But bigger injector = less ms. ( than stock) 😇. So you would have to make the values less not double them 🫡
Hello Canyon Tuned, I really appreciated this video and it gave me insight to my issue. My NA m52b25 car seems to only register the first fuel bank in the ecu as it was previously modified for forced induction turbo, now removed. I've tried multiple different tuned ecu's, and everything down to the plugs/injectors themselves, multiple crank sensors and all that has been had multiple thrown at it. The whole engine harness was swapped as it didnt have front o2's. The timing was off a tooth and just finished getting done.. and it didnt change the problem, let alone change how the car ran at all. Most of that is all back to stock and it still wont show a second bank which causes an odd misfire under max load after a certain duration, if car is turned off the car will reset and the car could drive without issue until it goes under max load again and after a certain duration but the duration seems to get shorter as the car repeats this and gets hot I think i dont know (but for example trying to push the car through an event it seems to come back quicker). Why does the car show 1 fuel bank in the data logs on my OBD2 software? Is it related to this when you say the 1&2 STFT "merging" together? How can I reset using romraider?
I would start by overwriting your ecu to one of the stock maps provided in the forums. If that doesn't work you have a mechanical or electrical issue
@@CanyonTuned Okay! Thank you, I will need to do more research on tuning the ms41 on my own as I used a mechanic service before, do you have any video recommendations ?
@@teamcnatch Yup please check out the rest of the videos in this playlist, I have a few beginner tutorials for basic tuning for MS41
@@CanyonTuned awesome!
I think ur wrong in the injection section.
If u have a 220cc injectors let's say that they flow 220cc per 1ms the bigger ones "440cc" will flow more then that in less time "less pulse width" 440cc in 1ms so they ll flow 220cc in .5ms .so u should dived the existing values by the values that u mentioned or multiply them by 0.x !!!
You are correct, you need to multiply by a decimal value equal to the percentage decrease in pulsewidth
Am I able to use a regular OBD1 Moates Extreme data logger on a stock ECU?
I honestly have no idea what you're talking about
@@CanyonTuned which data logger do u recommend I use, I’m trying to do a turbo build on a stock ecu
@@edgarrivas1804 it's all covered in the video, use the romraider logger. Personally I ended up just going with a vems standalone ecu
If i am turbocharging my car. Do I still have to have the factory narrowband and wideband in the downpipe ? Is it possible to send the ecu the analog data from the wideband to factory o2 sensor wire
You would need to wire in a serial connection off the wideband with two wires then get a serial to USB cable. Then in romraider there's a drop down menu at the top to select a wideband to log
@@CanyonTuned so no closed loop for cruising ? Or would both sensors need to be in the exhaust
The DME cannot use the wideband sensor at all. Closed loop fueling is always controlled by the stock narrowband so you'd need both. There is a table that tells the ecu to switch between open and closed loop (based on load) but it's not all that reliable. This is why I would highly suggest just using a standalone ecu with speed density. Megasquirt or VEMS plug and play are my two choices
@@CanyonTuned thank you for the info
Have you had an issue where the maf read 0 on a log
What parameter are you looking at? Maf_v, maf, or load?
@@CanyonTuned I’m going to dm you on ig
What about that ”forced 14,7afr”, if you try to keep 11,5 afr in full throttle by manipulating the catalyst overheat protection-nominal map?
I think that might help if ther is a problem to stay in rich aft when you ”floor it” for a longer time than just second or third gear
I don't like using those % additive tables personally, they're very difficult to get to your target AFR. Most tuners leave that stuff disabled, turn on WOT detection to 30%TPS and dial everything in through the main fuel table. Just personal preference although that might work too. Most have COP disabled
@@niko7090 Also I just double checked that table, you can't set custom load axis like the fuel/spark table
Okay I was just wondering in that would help to get the most divable/fuel economy maps, I have set wot detection to 40% in my turbo setup but maybe I should try to go as low as 30%
So if im using 2048 mode i double all the load values in the load table?
It's been a while since i've touched this, but I believe everything would be halved in 2048 mode
@@CanyonTuned @20:01, as i understand it, you say to scale up the load values to end at 2048. So if last value is 1024 i would be doubling all of the values in order to make it 2048? Sorry if this doesnt make any sense brand new to this
@@chideverett9580 just confirmed all the main tables need to be halved to get to the same starting point as before you switched to 2048 mode
@@MikeP41 thanks!
Also I thought the porsche 3.5 maf sensors where more common for e36s for boost
Due to cost and availability the Nissan maf is a better choice these days
$250-300 vs $20
@@CanyonTuned thats awesome. What's the max power or flow threshold on those Nissan mafs?
Bosch maf sensors for audi B5 Rs4 and bmw M62tu are pretty good also and what I have found from other ms41 tuners in rr forums etc. they thinks that those sensors show more accurate readings compared to slot style mass airflow sensors
@@niko7090 I agree, if you look at the scaling they seem more sensitive at lower air flow (which is what you want for drivability). With any MAF though, the more resistance you add to handle higher loads, the more sensitivity you're going to lose at lower RPM. Basically you're offsetting/shifting the voltage curve
Great video, thanks for the explanation, I what you about spending 100s of hours researching. Just subscribed.check my channel I also have E36/46 CONTENT