British Breechloaders and Trials Rifles
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- čas přidán 4. 09. 2012
- Unfortunately, when we visit great gun collections there is never enough time to do everything we would like to. We always have to leave great stuff undone, as much as we don't like to. Well, we got to visit one particular collection with a bunch of great stuff, and amongst the other items found a fantastic handful of early breechloading rifles mostly built as converted muzzleloaders for British army trials (not the wheellock, of course). We just didn't have the time to give them the attention they really deserved, but we were able to whip off a quick video of them. So we apologize for teasing you with just a glimpse, and we promise to show them in much more depth when we are able to get back to this collection.
www.forgottenweapons.com/briti...
They're in a private collection, and the owner (unfortunately but understandably) prefers to remain anonymous.
That socket on the wall is a dead giveaway at least to what country it is in lol.
I'm not sure why that one was deac'd - I don't know of any current legal reason it would have to be. But it's been around for a long time, and who knows where circumstances may have found it over the last century.
now you know the wheel lock takes cartridges
I'm not specifically familiar with the Prince design, but generally the rifling will prevent the ball from moving forward.
Still not satisfied? Here's a breachloading laser.
Like this?
img4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130223104242/warhammer40k/images/d/dd/Praetorians_Last_Stand.jpg
or this?
fc01.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2010/311/f/4/imperial_laslock_by_templateconstruct-d32cxvu.png
If I can get my hands on one, definitely - but I can't predict if or when that will happen.
"Hey guys, thanks for tuning in for another video episode on forgotten weapons" You are like the Bob Ross of the firearms world! Always pleasant and interesting to listen to...
British patent numbers restarted as 1 each year back then (they may still today; I'm not sure) - so a two-digit patent number doesn't actually signify much of anything.
The "Cossacks" computer game from 2002 or thereabouts allowed breechloader research in the 17th Century. It's nice to see something that gives this game feature a shred of respectability. I wonder how it fired!
5:33 I've always wondered how the Snider extractor worked. Now I know! Thanks!
Outstanding teaser. I can't wait for the full thing.
Yes, I have no doubt it leaks gas.
My personal favorite is a matchlock breechloader that anticipated the idea of the bolt action. It had a bolt-like breech section with a priming pan that also served as handle and locking stud. The breech was inserted frim the rear with the pan/handle upright, then rotated 90 degree to the right into a recess locking the breech.
I bought one of the Snyder conversion Enfields in Afghanistan in 2006 and jumped through the Army hoops to mail it home, then gave it to a good friend of mine who looked after my truck while I was gone. He loves it and has pledged never to sell it, so I'm thinking about seeing if anyone works up the .58 caliber black powder loads so we can try a few groups out of it. The rifling is in surprisingly good shape considering where I found it (a bazaar in Ghazni province: at least I found a real one and not one of the fake knockoffs they make in Pakistan and sell in Bagram as souvenirs), so it would be interesting to see how it shoots. The Snyder action has a few steps more than the Allen conversion for the Springfields, but I like it better.
An endless treasure trove of forgotten,or unknown,weapons,boundless ingenuity and limitless possibilities.
all interesting pieces. thanks, always have a good time watching your videos and having a cold one
Damn Ian, another great job !
You have the greatest weapon history channel anywhere. Many thanks.
I'm recommending you to all my firearm chatroom buds.
Honestly, your channel has become such a 'must see' for firearms enthusiasts as of late. Always something new, always something interesting. Keep up the amazing work!!
Also, I love how after showing a bunch of super rare rifles that have never made it to full production you can still say "Hope you saw something interesting today" lol !
You know what's the even more obvious giveaway he's in britain besides the wall sockets?!
The british guns he's presenting to us!
The same electrical outlets are also used in some former British colonies, being safe as well as robust.
love your channel!!
The Snider was the only one I had heard of. Thanks!
This is exsquist, well done chap.
I am so jealous of you. Those are some really awesome cutting edge designs given when they were made.
I've always had a soft spot for these futuristic innovations like firelock breach-loaders. I'm glad I saw this.
Damn, those are beautiful.
i guess i knew guns like these existed, but never looked into it at all. thanks for the video, i think i may have found a new fascination
Excellent video.
Great weapons , really appreciate the share. It's fascinating how close a couple of those weapons were to being a bolt-action , just didn't quite make the leap....
Always like the delivery.
I love all these videos. You should try and find some more trial rifles or just cool rare stuff
This video should be called "steampunk heaven" lol
Really nice presentation
very interesting stuff there!
i always love looking at the designs of guns which were trying to solve a problem which was almost impossible to do back when (rapid-fire)
i would like to hear if you have seen or just heard about the old danish blackpowder leveraction rifles, if you can find one, it would be awesome to see
I just purchased a Hiram Berdan first prototype British Enfield trapdoor breech loader made by Remington Arms Co. in 1866. Berdan hoped the British Government would use his design, however they opted for another American inventor's Enfield conversion that used the Snider system.
Funny the Americans did the same thing with their after War muskets by adopting the Springfield Trapdoor in 1873. My Enfield is a Confederate issued musket made by Barnett of London. There no other marks on the lock plate. It is believed to be one of the 200 Enfield's purchased by Berdan for conversion because they were very cheap to purchase from the U.S. Government.
Woah..... Ian’s look hasn’t changed
You must scour the world looking for these cool rare guns
I understand. Were I able to afford/collect such fantastic examples, the hardest part for me would be the desire to actually shoot them. There are some guns that I would be satisfied simply owning due to antiquity, craftsmanship, or significance. Even so, I look at a gun I couldn't shoot as simply an object. I envy you the opportunity to examine (and occasionally shoot) such rare and interesting guns. The Federov avtomat is one of my dream guns to shoot.
You can see where the U.S. 50 70 Trap door Springfield's ideas came from.
This the British Breech-loading Rifles Evoluted Trial examine
Filmed in the U.K ? Power outlet is a dead giveaway lol.
yes they did it was a screw breech called a furgeson and saw use in the Carolinas.
A nice collection, I envy you.
Some truly ingenious designs here to combat the weaknesses of reloading firearms at the time. I assume they didn't see more widespread use because of manufacture cost? I really liked the wheel lock!
This video is sick. Where is this from? Did I miss it stared at the beginning?
Did you ever get to do another analysis of this collection? If not is there anywhere I can learn about the T.J. Mayall conversion, like what its converted from?
In need ALL of them (except the wheellock)
Awesome!
I can honestly say that I had never seen ball and powder breachloaders until I saw this! Thanks for sharing. I have a question about them though. When breachloading something like the Prince's patent, what would stop the ball and/or powder from falling out the muzzle?
a bolt action musket... mind is blown!
Those wall sockets... HE'S IN BRITAIN!
Yup! highest safety standards in the World!
Nope, Just an American so into British things his house is wired that way.
Not necessarily. Also in several former British colonies. Safe and robust.
This is a fantastic showing!! What is the 6th rifle you featured? It is the next gun after the "Penderson" and before the "Benson patent" I have one of these rifles and I would like to find out the maker. Thank you for any help. Wes
Can we get a video on the snider?
i remember somewhere seeing one of those major fosbery cartridge conversions carefully converted to .22lr. it had been carefully rebarrelled and the action remained unmodified as the new .22 barrel was slightly offset from the original firing pin so the centrefire pin would strike the rim of the .22lr cartridge. would be interesting to make a reproduction of one of the fosberys in .308 or something :)
I have a .577 Snider in very good shape . Making my brass from 24 gauge , lube from bee wax and beef tallow . 85 gr. of fg goex and a 500 gr. miner ball . The deer ever drop 😊👍
I stand corrected, thanks. In Canada there is no permit required for antiques, depending on the ammo it uses. Flintlocks, new or antique require none. Powder, caps etc. is just 18+
see for sure movie: --> Combination wheellock-matchlock -Self-Spanning - rekonstrukcja
1:45 this look a little awkward for loose powder and ball, do you think it's more likely that many of these used these used paper cartridges with nitred paper?
that first breachloader looks like the really ornate german one you made a video about, probably uses the same primitive cartridges too
where did you find those magnificent rifles?
very helpfull vedio...thx...
So i guess Georg Luger didnt copy the toggle mechanism for his gun from the Borchardt, Borchardt copied it from these early breechloaders. Its nice to find the missing links!
These rifles are AWESOME! SUB!
Who's is the bolt action patent at 2.05? It looks a bit like a Terry's improved patent.
Any chance you could do a video on a Reichsrevolver?
So is the auction available to Canadians? Cause I gotta have one of those!
I presume the wheel lock's breeck had an imperfect seal that would have been mitigated by it's forward placement away from the shooters face, what do you think?
the wheellock is a metal cartridge gun, probably cartridges are lost. there are images of the same proto-snider system pistol in the net, it is of a 16 century german manufacture.
the first "trapdoor" looks like a variant of an Albini-Baranov with a chamber instead of a cartridge, like in original Mont-Storm patent. Interesting.
When shall we see these again?
Looks like extracting the casing on the snider conversion could potentially burn after repeated firing.
Untrue, I'm from the UK and own firearms, you can own bolt action rifles in any calibre and semi-auto rifles in .22 calibre. You can also own black powder rifles too so there would be nothing stopping you owning and shooting the rifles in this video.
IF you have your rifle cert... which many people do not. The law allows people to own non-fireables as curios without a cert.
Someone needs to make a version of that cap loader for the breechloading BP guns of the 1850-1870s, aka smith sharps etc. Something like that would make those guns practically rapidfire. ps the pellet and primer tape systems are cool too but no one uses them so this may be the answer.
I like the second last one best
Cool
They kinda tried that with a civil war game history channel helped on Guess it never took off still trying to find it for x box Id like to give it a try.
Any luck scoring a Dutch Snider M1867?
That breech loading wheelock is interesting
He was a complete video on the wheelock systm infact that wheelock uses primitive ammo he just didnt know at the time
@@MisterCuddlesworthPT do you mean “he has a complete video on the wheel lock system”?
@@jayvynjohnson7509 Sorry for the english i mean he has a complete video on the wheel lock system that is present in the video.
If there are other areas of history you would be interested in exploring as a hobby, we would appreciate learning along with you.
What's the name of the rifle at 2:05? That was a very interesting video.
T.J. Mayall's patent cartridge conversion.
I was wondering this too! May you be granted happiness in this life, friend
In England, which is where this collection is, the classification of DD and NFA machine gun don't exist anyway. To own any rifle requires a firearms certificate, which is not difficult, but equally not very easy to obtain. It also requires membership of a gun club etc, so for a collector who no longer shot, the economics of making your rifle no longer a rifle makes sense. Equally if it was inherited and the recipient hadn't got an FAC. Or someone simply, wanted to display it as a mantle gun.
In a nutshell: All original weapons manufactured before 1870 are free to own in working condition The Netherlands. Also, you are allowed to own blackpowder rifles, flare guns and every blackpowder non-centerfire revolver manufactured before 1945 in working condition. Everything else, including ammo requires you to get a license (which can take quite some time). There are no licenses available for shooting full auto weapons. It is pretty bad but not as bad as in Britain or China.
I have a question, how hard will it be for a post apocalyptic society to build a similar gun like this? and the ammo and powder? is for a story i am writing, and i am having lots of question of what would be a simple to build fire weapon. since modern weapons use primers at that would be tricky if not imposible to make in a society where industry just disapeared.
It would some what be easy to make a musket with modern know how
Yes, but whit modern society gone will it be easy? is for a small story i am writing not to tell that i am a very curious person.
If you are still writing that story (I know its been about 2 years or so), Most wheelock/flintlocks simply used a piece of flint to strike on some steel and direct sparks into the chamber, this would be relatively easy to make, especially if any scrap metals remained (metal plumbing piping etc...). If your story is done I would be interested in reading it. :)
Are these California compliant, or does the breach unlocking mechanism count as an assault rifle?
its an assault rifle
Could someone provide the actual name I should be searching for online, per Ian's "Petterson" rifle referenced starting at 2:45? Thanks.
Pederson
From what I understand an antique gun such as that is legal to own without any type of permit in Britain. Powder and caps are another story. It is a shame that such an historical piece was deactivated.
Can't have people running around with high capacity single shot loose powder and ball assault rifles now, can we.
On a serious note: I wonder why. From my (scant, but still somewhat existent) knowledge of gun laws in the UK, a gun that does not use an actual cartridge such as that one would in itself require no license?.. I think.
@@bowmen08 no, they are treated like anything else if it can shoot (this includes muzzle-loading guns). If it is unfireable, anyone can have it as a curio.
I recall hearing of a small number of british marksman during the revolutionary war using a breech loader.
Yea, Fosbery, the John Moses Browning of the.......er.......
A firing Greene patent rifle would be nice
Was that the rifle he used to win the cross
I believe in the UK you can only own a working rifle if you can demonstrate need or that its a part of your profession(like gamekeeper). This applies to all guns including single shots. That gun probably belonged to a British gun owner when it was deactivated.
Whose patent was the rifle at 4:13? I didn't quite catch the name. What's the patent number?
Try searching for a first name of BENSON. The second part may have been Poppinberg, but unless you have other ways to find out, you may need to contact the people themselves.
no ferguson rifle?
why only 360p?
How do you even breechload a musket it makes no sense to me
Except at 3:43
Interesting.
Why didn't they. Make one where you just load the cartridge into the breech door
the fosbery one seems more practical as opposed to the snider. must not have preformed well in trials otherwise seems like a great rifle
Yes, i guess so. In the netherlands they fill the barrel with metal too. No fun collecting guns and rifles here, you have to destroy the weapon first...
muy bueno yendrias que traducir al español desde uruguay
Sounds pretty similar to the UK actually.
Where is this collection held? Is it open to the public?
These are part of a private collection whose owner allowed me to video them on condition of remaining anonymous.
Are we allowed to know where in the uk it is
+TheGamers0 look out for a grammar nazi. You'd be gunned down
which is the weapon of the min 3:00 min 4:18? (I speak Spanish and use google sorry for the bad translation)
3.00 Patterson, 19th Century.
4.18 Benson-Poppinberg (patent).
Sorry but the spelling of the names is my guess.