Lindner Carbine
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- čas přidán 19. 08. 2015
- / forgottenweapons
The Lindner carbine was an early US cavalry carbine used during the Civil War. Unlike the many metallic cartridge firing carbines that would follow, it was a breechloader that used .58 caliber paper cartridges. An initial order for 892 of them was delivered to the Army, and Lindner went on to make some improvements to the design. By the time his improved version was ready, the paper cartridge had been rendered obsolete by metallic cartridges, and the Army was no longer interested in the guns. To avoid having to purchase them, they refused to send an inspector to Lindner's factory, thus ensuring that none of the guns would pass inspection. A slimy but legal way out of their contract, as the ensuing legal battle was decided in favor of the government and Lindner had to sell his extra guns in Europe.
Smooth bore carbine fired from horseback. The sights were probably as good as they needed to be. ;->
Not a smoothbore, Lindner carbines had perfectly ordinary for the time, three grove rifling.
The notch & blade are tiny, and thus would be terrible to use on horseback. On foot, better, but still pretty terrible.
@@anzaca1 in other words: use a normal Springfield
I was reading a book about the american civil war recently and found this channel because i was searching for some information about the the mechanics of civil war era weaponry. After watching your informative and interesting videos for some time now, i find myself becoming more and more interested in firearms, something i would have never expected. Thanks for your great work and greetings from Germany.
as expected from a German. all about engineering
The world has gone through wars and a pandemic since this video came out. One thing has stayed constant… Ian will always be gun Jesus
This is one of the coolest designs I have seen and the reason I subscribed to this channel. You always show off lots of cool and intetresting designs that otherwise you would never know about or never find a video on. Thanks again!
Seeing this comment from the future: oh boy, you're in for a ride
Melvin Suter oh yeah, it’s been amazing. I still watch every new video the day it comes out.
@@melvinsuter984 yes truly awesome content. I very much enjoy this channel. Lots of great history and mechanical wonders that have been otherwise forgotten. Hence the name...... Forgotten weapons.... 👍 Love this
A breech loading breach of contract.
Something about the action is so elegant and beautiful. I would love using one for hunting.
I wonder how well the gas seal is on this vs the one on the Kammerlader rifle.
save up 4000$$$ and you can.
Though at that price, you could probably have one made from scratch.
agreed. i love breachloading paper cartridge guns for some reason, and by far this seems to be the most. “solid” and simple version ive seen. something like the furgoson with the screw seems a bit fiddly, and other carbines seem to have a good deal of over engineered machanics that i feel would just cause more potential problems. or require a few different steps or dont offer enough of a breach seal (like the hall) this seems simple and straight to the point operations wise without many fiddly bits.
would love to see something similar on the market.
You should publish a book showing all these rifles and how they work. It would be a good reference for modern fire arms designers.
Ian ALWAYS comes up with some really neat stuff!! Thanks, Ian!
always impressed by a clever piece of firearms engineering. thanks.
convictjoe me to, allthoung i'm not a guy who shoots or collects guns.
Not a bad system. Clearly easier and faster than muzzle load.
Thanks for showing. Gives us an opportunity to admire some rare and expensive firearms we would otherwise miss out on.
Yes I love all of the Civil War Carbines that you show us . That and post war are favourite period really
That is a very cool breech loading mechanism. Would be cool on a flintlock rifle.
I know. Only you’d have to make the flint hammer a boxlock so that it centers right on the touch hole and acts as a firing pin to the paper cartridge.
Good video and you prove to me how little I know about older firearms.
Thanks for sharing that interesting information on the Linder carbine.
Really neat piece! Love your reviews.
Neat little mechanism, thanks for sharing.
Great video, I learned something new, even though I'm Canadian, I'm still very much interested in 1800's technology and warfare, like the American civil war and the war of 1812
I think it is fascinating how many solutions to muzzle loading were devised before someone came up with the self contained metallic cartridge. I would have thought it would come about much sooner!
I like this imagine what war would look like with this and other types of breechloading longarms using flintlocks.
This is actually a pretty cool design. I like all the videos but this is one that I wouldn’t mind having. Clever solution for its time this.
I'm currently reading The Illustrated History of Firearms 2nd Edition amd seeing this broken down gives me a much better understanding of the advancements of the contained cartridge.
A "slimy out" ain't that what government is all about?
To waste Tax and to cheat to get out of a contract are different things.
They're not obligated to buy if the guns don't meet what they wanted.
It's not a slimy out. There was nothing in the contract saying the inspection was due by a certain date.
Anzac-A1 yeah, when a contract is made with the understanding that gun purchases will be continued as long as guns pass inspection, it is generally accepted that those guns go to inspection. The sliminess comes in the fact that the government knew his weapons would pass inspection, so they just avoided inspection all together
Anzac-A1 that’s pretty much the definition of a slimy out. If they wanted to be fair and have more up to date rifles, they would have approached him with a list of improvements, but the government is slimy as always and decided to take the easy route (screwing over their previous manufacturer)
So precise! Unbelievable!
Really cool piece!
Wa no wait Government never changes
wow, lindner got ripped off by the goverment
Great history lesson. Thank you. Recently your channel after being introduced to youtube. I heard, several years ago, about a weapon that was awarded (only time in history) to a few heros of "The Battle of Plattsburg" during the American Revolution. I believe the Lindner may be a "later version" of that firearm. If you have already covered it, I am really sorry that I missed it.
The government screws over all of it people
Nowadays the government has a term for it: "Termination for the convenience of the government". If you sign the contract you automatically accept the possibility. The difference is now in the case of a "T4C" they have to pay you for all the money you laid out up to the time you're notified.
Name one person that hasn't.
#taxationistheft
Maybe if he hadn't fiddled around with the design for so long he might have accomplished something .
This is a fabulous design.
Thanks for the content
Каждое видео, что посмотрел на этом канале это удивительные решения оружейников своего времени!! Потрясающий контент, спасибо!! Masterpiece gun!! Thank you!!
If they switched out the little tab on the lock with an actual bolt handle it would've been way easier and faster to open and close the breech. It's still a really neat design. Thanks for uploading.
Very clever and effective design. You would think that mass conversion of rifle-muskets to this system would have been appealing, since it would be cheaper than producing new arms and using the issue paper cartridge and percussion cap ammunition supply wouldn't be impacted (except for the higher rate of fire).
I love the idea of using a breach like this to make the most unsporting English duelling pistol possible. Large caliber, rifled barrel, saw grip and front and rear sights like modern triangle quick acquisition iron sights but with polished silver inlays instead of luminous inlays.
I realise duelling pistols came in sets so it wouldn't really be unsporting of your opponent had the same or simply couldn't be used, but I still get a kick from the idea
Interesting piece. Thanks for sharing Ian. I do love me black powder. I looked and wonder if they will get the expected price. With so few in existence it would be a great addition to any collection.
Rather unique cartridges for this gun too.
Rather than the usual folded paper tail, there was ~ 7-8 strings of yarn forming a tail. Before loading, the soldier pulled out the tail, opening up the cartridge's rear !
The thumbnail image really has me wondering if Erskine Allin saw one of these and realized he just needed to flip the breechblock 180 degrees for metallic cartridges. There are obviously other differences, but even the contours on the Lindner breech mechanism remind me of the “trapdoor” on the Springfield Allin conversions.
...wow...7 years ago...how did I miss this for so long???
Very nice concept.
"Slimy but Technically legal" is the classic American thing.
i really like that gun it's pretty cool, always amazes me the number of guns i've never even heard of so thank you for putting out these videos they are quite informative. any chance you guys will ever get your hands on a Borchardt C-93? would really like to see you do a detailed video on one im fascinated with that pistol
Looks a lot like an upgrade of the Hall Rifle design
cool stuff man, videos came qiuck, nice
That's an awesome design :)
Interesting system. I'd never heard of that one. I wonder if Amoskeag was producing the Lindner carbines at the same time they were producing Pattern 1861 muskets? †hank you for producing these videos of unusual rifles and pistols. It is much easier to learn about them the way you present them.
With a paper cartridge, does a mechanism in the rifle peirce it, exposing the powder for the percussion cap to spark, or do you simply rip it yourself and shove into the breach? Sorry if a stupid question!!
Nice. No need for a ram rod. Just a ball starter would do the trick.
Wouldn't even need a starter - just shove the cartridge in by hand. The chamber is probably slightly overbore and the locking rotor / wedge brings the ball / bullet right up to the start of the rifling.
That name sounds familiar to me, somehow...
Fabian Lindner Think of all the one liners you could come up with if you bought this... 👌
You can choose one of the Lindners to be killed with... and youd be better of with the gun.
Fabian Lindner your 1st joke was good. the 2nd... not so much
Edgar Valencia the commenters' name is Fabien Lindner. The gun is the Lindner Carbine. Took me a second til I read the name
I thought the same. Turns out I was thinking of Lindt chocolate
An amazing engeneering design, stylish in fact :p
Shame it was already obsolete by the time they were done. :/
I could almost see this working on a self-loading rifle.
Very interesting and thanks for posting!
Looks like it would be problematic to clean; that waste and carbon would tend to build up underneath the breech loading mechanism.
William Cox I was wondering about that too, actually, though I can't imagine it's worse than getting around the gas tube inside a DI m-4's upper receiver.
But then, we have solvents and wire brushes, I guess.
William Cox I suspect a bigger problem when using this weapon is pressing down the breech tube after a few rounds when its hot. That and possible ignition as your shoving the cartridge into the hot breech!
@@MrReded69 I’m pretty sure that the rate of fire with these carbines is low enough that heating is not that big a problem.
Two questions: was that lifting chamber lifted on a spring or something else and did its resemblance to the Hall rifle cause any patent troubles?
The Hall rifle was patent expired (it was first manufactured in 1819 (with the last ones built in 1850).
Hello this is a good channel..
Do you think the Lindner had any influence on the Austrain 1867 Werdnl Rifle? Because the Lindner reminds me a lot of the Werdnl's "Tabernacle" breech system.
The Waraboo in which point do this mechanism remind you on the tabernackel mechanism only in the turning movement is a equality but else?
I"m curious what cavalrymen were meant to do about residue building up in the cartridge chamber. Wouldn't burnt paper etc build up in there and make it hard to fit a new cartridge?
No doubt, paper and powder would both build up fouling over time, but another advantage to this design is that the chamber is much easier to see and access with cleaning tools. Swab out the barrel as normal, then you can give the back of the chamber a good hard scrubbing where the crud accumulation would likely be worst. Ian didn't take the gun apart so I couldn't say for sure, but if it's at all feasible to remove the whole breech mechanism from the gun, you'd have access to the barrel from both sides, which is impossible on most muzzle loaders.
Really cool
How did they cut those parts so precise in that era?
I wonder what ranges that flip type rear sight was calibrated for?
Good Lord this is a complex weapon for what it was supposed to accomplish! My hat's off to the designers, but it looks like it would be a nightmare in the trenches.
This is my new favorite FW episode and I wish I could afford to place a bid on that puppy. I live < 20 miles from where that was manufactured and go to college in a building that was built by the Amoskeag Manuf. Co.
By the way, around here we pronounce it am-mo-skayg
Is there a website you use to find info on all these weapons? I am trying to do a report on experimental/ not widely used civil war cavalry carbines.
thats a great design,,
Is there a (hollow) spike in the back to puncture the paper? I assume so as this was common in other paper cartridge guns, but you didn't mention it...
I wonder if there could be a flintlock version of this.
This would have been good for infantry back then. We would have won a lot earlier if we had adopted them.
So simple it only makes you wonder why no one made this earlier.
Wasn't there also a cartridge version with this same mechanism?
Though the action's design is simple enough, to manufacture precise-enough dimensions for something like this would had been prohibitively expensive before the 1830s. Before that, the majority of fine, precision metalwork would had been done with files, in conjunction with the keen eye and steady hand of a skilled craftsman. The lack of precision measuring tools always meant every part would had to be custom-fitted individually during the manufacturing process. These shortcomings would had made it very laborious and expensive for anyone to produce a firearm like a Lindner carbine.
It wasn't until the late 1700s that we began to mechanized the traditional gunsmithing process, first with filing jigs and templates that sped up the filing process, moving on to automatic filing machines powered by water and steam, than eventually culminating into a whole set of powered milling, boring, and lathing machines augmented by the advent of precision measurements as pioneered by Simeon North, John Hall, Joseph Whitworth, and others.
Clever design
Kind of slimy = Government in action.
Maybe this is a bit of a silly question, but do percussion caps come in standard sizes, or did different rifles all take different types?
CrazyAlify Pretty much standardized, with a few outliers.
Thanks for the reply! Great video as usual.
I wonder if there was ever any consideration given to converting the Springfield rifle-musket to that system. It would seem like a way to significantly increase firepower.
A huge number of standard pattern muskets were given the trap door breach conversion some years after the war. While this system probably offers a better gas seal, it is a bit more complicated to manufacture, and not well suited for use with metallic cartridges, which by this time were becoming standard.
Damn it even had a little 1800s bubba on the breech block handle
I'd buy one in a flintlock (if possible), so I wouldn't have to bother with caps out in the bush.
Please keep it up
1:43
Government dick move. LOL
how is the breach allowed to hinge as well as slide forward?
Once again, he's sight-shaming a gun and I'm cracking up. I'm so amused by his disapproval of iron sights. I want a compilation of all the occasions. Guess I'll have to make one myself some time.
He's saying that the iron sights on this gun are not good.
It has a tiny rear notch, and an equally tiny front blade. Making the sights very hard to use. The front blade needs to be large, in order to stand out for the shooter. Look at any gun known for good iron sights, and you'll see a much larger blade.
I love this
It almost feels like they made him do this one
Is the paper cartridge to be emptied into the breach? Or is the percussion cap expected to burn through the paper? The first one seems impractical for soldiers on horseback and the second one seems like it’d be extremely unreliable, or result in a lot of instances of the hammer falling and the piece firing possibly as long as seconds later. Can you enlighten me? Thanks!
Wouldn't some paper get stuck in it? I thought that was a common problem with paper casings, was there a way to get it out?
Wouldn't opening the breech block with a hammer at half-cock fuse the thing and make it shoot out of the back end with consequences that are potentially deadly for the user?
Sounds like it would've made a decent conscript rifle for units assigned to cities, at least for a while.
Immer guter Stuff 😁
Hi Ian! Take a look at this! norskevaapen.no/?p=496 It's a Norwegian collectors website on Norwegian weapons, I think you might find the krag and "Kammerlader" (Chamber loader) especially interesting. And it's in english! Lots of fascinating reading and pictures.
HaakonTheViking Neat!
+Forgotten Weapons If you find a Kammerlader, will you make a video on it? Love hearing your oppinion on Norwegin guns :)
Have done anything with pin fire?
Was this manufactured in the NE US? On a recent visit to Manchester, NH I stayed at a motel on the amouskeg (?) river.
Yes the Amoskeag Mills were in Manchester NH. Most of the Mill buildings survive to this day, and are in current use in a variety of mostly commercial capacities. The story Ian told about Mr Lindner getting swindled by Uncle Sam is still part of local knowledge. I remember learning the story from my Grandfather.
Also you probably stayed at the Amoskeag Mills which are on the Merrimack River.
Is that the same cocking lever that’s on the Burnside Carbine?
Very nice gan
These look more primitive than the sharps which was already lightyears behind the dreyse and chassepot which were becoming obsolete to metallic cartridges so it's no wonder that the army lost interest in it.
Nice gun
The most pirate looking gun I've ever seen.
Great firearm and vdo
don't forget paper cartridges were cheap and could be made at home
Never heard of the Lindner carbine...interesting.
I you stuff the paper cartridge with powder and ball into the breech block, how is the paper cartridge punctured or opened so the cap can set it off?
Mickey Xtian The cartridge is probably of the thin, heavily nitrated types that were designed to be ignited by the explosion of the cap just like paper revolver cartridges.
Mickey Xtian Well, the Sharps, which was a falling block breachloader, used the closing breach like a cigar cutter to snip the back end off the paper cartridge exposing the powder directly to the cap.
Mickey Xtian Was thinking the same thing.
The Stoned Videogame Nerd Well you're probably well educated but you type like you're definitely stoned! LOL
I was wondering the same thing and trying to picture how that could be accomplished - possibly just a sharp point on the inside end of the channel carrying the ignition from the cap to the chamber, that slightly tore the cartridge as it was inserted.
It seems like this style of breech block would be a standard for hunters in black powder season these days. Forgotten?
Ah, that makes perfect sense. Stupid laws...
Bulsh1tMan Muzzleloading revolvers do, and this is essentially the same...
Ian . I see this as the North keeping a contractor under contract ,from makeing guns for the south
Slick!
I never understood the paper cartridge success.. doesn't the cap flame have to go through the paper to the powder....I have muzzleloaders but paper cartridges seems like a exercise in frustration? What about wet paper, or cuts,powder falling out?
Now that looks a gun that could give the Sharps rifle a run for it's money.
All it needs is taser mount ...and bam you get the Mandalorian rifle.
Is there a specific name for that type of rotating half of the breechblock that you turn and describe at 2:59? Telescopic Rotating breech? Telescopic Rotary? I’ve been looking for it everywhere because I imagine it could’ve been developed a lot earlier than it actually was.
Ok so apparently it’s a rotating drum bolt similar to the M1867 Werndl-Holub
Very cool system.
do you think it could actually be loaded on horseback?
Jeffrey Reardon Maybe if they had a holster it could be done with one hand.