Video není dostupné.
Omlouváme se.
Strut bars do nearly nothing. Sway bars do a lot!
Vložit
- čas přidán 15. 08. 2024
- There's lots of confusion around about strut bars and sway bars. Basically, strut bars do almost nothing... but sway bars can transform a car's handling balance. www.amazon.com... or Amazon in your country.
I disagree the book is expensive. A single pointless modification costs more and even one hour of diagnostic time at a workshop is twice the price.
Julian is a rare case of someone actually breaking down methods for testing and changing your car.
Very satisfying for proper car enthusiasts to have a hand in setting up their own car and getting a great outcome via DIY accessable changes
I view strut bars as, generally, gilding the lily. BUT, I still use them. The biggest benefit they have shown to me is the reduction of creaks and rattles as a car ages. My youngest car has 130k miles and is SILENT over bumps with the factory suspension. However, I can also confirm that sway bars are a vastly more effective way to tune a vehicle's handling.
The strut bar quieted down almost entirely the dash rattles and creaks on my Fiesta ST that were driving me crazy. It was worth it for me just for that.
I use them in some of my cars but they are all 30+ year old sh!tboxes with no crumple zones even. Less than a ton of car doing not much for safety or chassis flex :0
For most people, strut bars are just for looks. And admittedly, they do look cool.
A strut bar on a 1960's or 70's car has a much bigger effect compared with any car made since 90's.
60s fords had em from factory to support the top mounted strut of mcpherson together with the garbage unibody frame. Mustangs, taunus p5 and p7 models etc
I would add that a strut bar is going to be most effective on a car with MacPherson strut suspenion that has strut towers which aren't well braced or triangulated from the factory. On something double-wishbone or multi-link, where the strut mount is not a pivot point for the geometry, then it's basically no different than any other chassis brace. And Mr. Edgar is right that most modern cars from the last decade or two won't show much effect in general, as manufacturers have gotten much better about gusseting or triangulating the shock towers in their chassis designs (or have bracing already in place from the factory as in the BMW M3/M4)
In my experience, strut braces are put on a car just after you put on the stickers that increase horsepower
finally someone said it
people just adding weight for no reason
I replaced the sway bar end links with a much stiffer version. That's a forgotten area. The factory ones can be very soft.
Strut bars were great in things like my old Capri convertible, but the Focus I track is incredibly stiff in the shell. I gained so much from camber and castor setup and coilovers that the factory sway bars worked very well.
My 240sx convertible chassis is a wet noodle. A firewall brace, strut bar, front power brace, and frame rail brace have transformed my car. It handles really well now.
Yes, older convertibles are typically very low in stiffness.
I think for old cars whose chassis feels like a wet spaguetti strut bars do help
But modern cars, not so much
i think strut bars are more beneficial on older cars 90's or older. the newer cars have much stiffer chassis
Strut bars purposes is to stiffen the chassis. It does make a difference, i used to drive a honda civic 1990 hatchback and i installed one, i dont remember the brand but it was black and yellow and solid metal. The car steering was more responsive and stable.
Yes, did you watch the video? In it I say that strut bars can be effective on old cars. (A 1990 car was designed more than 35 years ago.)
You have a strut bar, cuz' no one is going to crawl under the car to see the real suspension work.
Sleeper
I’m sorry, but this is the first time one of your videos is obviously wrong.
Upper front strut bars are visible when the hood is open. All anti-roll bars are hidden under the car, and no one will know how awesome my powder coating color choice is unless I have the matching front strut bar.
Knowing your car looks heckin sick is a 10/10 handling and driving experience improvement. This is why a front strut bar is a stellar upgrade on literally all cars.
I’m starting to think Julian and this book were funded by Big Swaybar 😁
I know you’re joking but it’s not about big sway bars: it’s about front/rear roll stiffness ratio.
Can’t speak for anyone else’s car but my Porsche 997 came from factory with a weird front strut bar setup. The general consensus is no other bracing is needed, but on the 997 cup car Porsche installed a Motorsports strut bar so there goes that. On my car I went with front and rear additional strut bars, elephant race front frunk bracing, and a brey Krause harness bar that stiffened up the rear of the chassis. Not saying these parts made the car handle night/day different but they did firm up the chassis which allowed my larger rear sway bar, coilovers, solid subframe mounts, and full rose jointed suspension to do its job. I agree that sway bars are much more effective at tuning your handling but less face it, if your chassis is twisting and bending all over the place it’s still gonna feel sloppy and unpredictable.
Side Note: my 997 is my 4th car…. It’s not a daily, it has no AC or radio, it’s just a fun build that I like to tool around with
What you are describing is literally nothing like a typical aftermarket strut bar.
The old air cooled Porsche 911s had strut towers that really did flex enough to make small changes to the dynamic camber under hard cornering. But even in a 911 a plain strut bar did almost nothing (rectangles can flex plenty). If you installed one that had a triangulated brace, then it made a difference. But again the difference was only substantial under race conditions, particularly if you were using racing tires with very high grip. So there were lots of these sold for 911s in car magazine ads. And people thought, if it makes a Porsche handle better surely it'll help my Honda or Ford too. Right? No.
In every other car I have ever owned, the the strut towers are tied (both front and rear) together by other structural elements like a fire wall or the deck behind the rear seats. I sometimes see Honda Fit's (Honda Jazz in most of the world) with strut bars. The strut towers / wheel arches are literally tied together by the firewall which connects to the wheel arches from top to bottom. It would be hard to make those strut towers any stiffer. Car bodies are radically stiffer today than they were in the 70s-90s. In 95% of cars, strut bars are tools for separating you from your money.
Strut bars serve a visual purpose, in that one youth can pop the bonnet and show off their brightly painted strut brace to the other youths, think a peacock showing off its feathers.
🤣
The chassis on my r31 skyline was so flimsy I cracked the windscreen jacking the car up from the front driver's side. Talk about flex.
Yes, car stiffness has changed radically in 40 years.
On fiat 128's the strut bars are used to stiffen up the front and to stop the strut towers twisting outwards from power modifications, since they came with 55-73hp and the stock engine is quite easy to get to 100+hp (nearly doubling the hp and many times tripling) it's easy to make the strut towers bend
also it's safe to say that in the balkans they were made under the "zastava" factory, which never used metal meant for cars, and basically on all of them you can bend the roof from the outside inwards with just a little press from your hand, which should put into perspective how much of a job the strut brace makes here
Edit: I can film/upload a video of the roof bending on my channel tomorrow if you don't believe it
The Fiat 128's basic design is over half a century old. Just look at crash testing performance to get an indication of the change in vehicle design strength over that period.
Got to say, when I first added a dead straight strut bar on a Datsun 1600, I wasn't impressed. Then I took a difficult tight corner that dipped and then rose upwards, and I couldn't believe the difference. But that is a 1969 Datto that was no doubt flexy as all giddy up! Later on I added a rear sway to it and difference was dramatic, as you say.
Yes, I’d expect a 55 year old design to be fairly flexible in the body.
@@JulianEdgar
Hi Julian. One of the problems that I see with a lot of strut braces is that they are not straight rods. The bar that I had on my S13 Silvia years ago looked pretty but was obviously compromised by the fact that it had two bends in it where the bar dipped down to the strut tops. Dubious about its rigidity, I tested in compression outside of the car and was able to make it bend. I doubt that it offered anything other than 5 ghost horsepower.
Yes that is a point I make about strut bars in the book.
My brain keeps telling me I shouldn't upgrade the daily driver but I see so much potential 😂
I go by the philosophy: modify the car you drive the most.
I have a 90's Honda civic hatchback I am slowly prepping for track days and have replaced all the suspension parts with new/fresh/upgraded parts, as well as upgraded the brakes front and rear. I noticed that the "type R" versions of the integra and civics like mine came with strut bars from the factory. Wondering your opinion on those "factory installed" parts? I would assume since those models had slightly stiffer springs and anti roll bars, it might cause some chassis distortion when pushed hard. Was shopping for one when I came across this video, so perfect timing. Honda at the time found value in it. Maybe in the case of these models it was warranted, or perhaps shinny bits to validate the extra cost?
Typically on the highest performing cars, the added factory strut bars do make a small difference. If you can get those parts without spending a lot, they may be worth it.
Not all factory parts are fitted for performance or functionality purposes. The purpose of the car is to be sold, so anything the manufacturer can add to increase likelihood of a sale will go on. Some parts simply get added as part of the overall marketing package.
Hi excellent informative video👍Do you think strut bars on fwd cars make understeer worse due to stiffening the front? Thanks for posting. Have a great day.
I think they do so little that any change to understeer would be inconsequential.
@@JulianEdgarThanks, I agree.
I am planning to get lsd installed on my mx5 nd 1.5l. I am not sure if I should get oem or aftermarket. Mostly it willl be driven on street. However I heard that lsd tends to increase understeer. I am not sure how I will adjust suspension system. I seems that I should harden back swaybars. But the question is how much.
An LSD in a RWD will allow you to stiffen the rear sway bar without then getting inner wheelspin, yes.
Thank you sir
Julian what are your thoughts about wheel spacers? Are they worth it?
I don't like wheel spacers: they change scrub radius and bearing loads.
I’ve Never heard of a “Sway bars” just Anti Sway bars! But He’s the “Expert”🧐
In most countries they are known simply as sway bars. In my book I primarily use the term anti-roll bars.
What are your qualifications, then?
🎉🎉🎉
Hi, thank you. Could you do a video on cars without sway bars like some Mercedes or McLaren?
I won't be doing a video on it, but active systems are covered in the book.
@@JulianEdgarcheers
I haven’t read your book, but surely it’s the obviously superior approach?
The chapter covers the pluses and minuses.
Maybe if there was a front and rear strut bar, along with a diagonal bar that tied front left to rear right or Vice versa
Yes, called a roll cage!
@@JulianEdgar basically lol. I remember reading a short article years ago saying that a NASCAR team did testing on the effectiveness of strut bars by testing them on a chassis twisting machine. And they did nothing
@@ellisjackson336 citation needed. NASCAR cars are tube frame, and they don't have strut towers at all, so there is no way for a NASCAR team to "test a strut bar" because they don't have strut towers to connect them to and they're already tube frame.
@@jsquared1013
Maybe it was a nascar team doing the test, on something that wasnt a nascar stock car
hi @Julian Edgar, will a sedan (corolla) with torsion beam rear suspension benefit with a rear sway bar ? I just feel the car wobbles/rolls annoyingly. I just want a more planted driving feel without sacrificing comfort. Or it's a lost cause with torsion beams?
Wobbles and rolls sounds more like soft dampers (shocks). Any car suspension can use altered / added sway bars.
Thank you for your insights Julian.
Would love to see you do a video speaking about torsion beam. Lots of cars have them, even sporty cars, but they get such a bad reputation by 'enthusiasts'. My car also has torsion beam rear, but plow oversteer.
Yes sway bars make a much more difference:
But Stiffer sway bars do also reduce the comfort of the car which strut bars don’t do
Strut bars don't reduce ride comfort because they're doing nothing... And softening a sway bar actually improves ride comfort - there's not a requirement to always go stiffer.
@@JulianEdgarat least you can make the handling a bit better (even it’s just a bit) with additional strut bar without loosing comfort of the car.
Where a stiffer sway bar (for better handling) will always reduce the comfort, right ?
Why do you keep implying that changing sway bars is always about going stiffer? On my current car (that was very stiff in roll as standard) I softened the front bar. It is about the front/rear stiffness *ratio*, not the absolute stiffness. And strut bars do basically nothing for handling, and therefore have no effect on ride. (An infinitely stiff car would have a worse ride quality than one where the body acts as an additional spring.)
@@JulianEdgar I was referring to tuning to make a car handle better, more precise, more sharp sporty fealing:
That is probably the intention of 95% of people who modify their cars.
I never heard that somebody removed a strut bar or put a more soft strut bar in the car to make the car more comfy
Well, you'd better read the book! Depending on the car you're starting with, a softer sway bar can improve handling balance, turn-in response and ride quality. Strut bars are basically irrelevant to ride and handling, they do so little.
🦾