Our Least Favorite NBA Trades of the Last 30 Years | The Bill Simmons Podcast
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- čas přidán 4. 07. 2022
- The Ringer’s Bill Simmons is joined by Ryen Russillo to discuss the NBA trades that they hated most when they happened.
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One of many times where Bill and Ryen do a deep dive into the history of the NBA, especially the trades, which makes the content so enjoyable.
I'm glad you didn't die in that Hurricane ❤️
They have such good basketball history knowledge it’s just cool to listen to them talk about this stuff because this was before my age.
They mentioned all these trades and gave 0 hardely.any details
@@roboliver675 yeah wish it was lomger
I love so much when they have the gravitas and seniority to podcast with such ball swinging sensibilities.
The Bucks trading Ray Allen for a few months of Gary Payton effectively killed the franchise for 15 years. In the post-MJ pre-LeBron East, the Bucks had a core that could've made the Finals, but they nuked it to satiate George Karl's ego. Still haunts me, even after winning a title with Giannis.
Played my pacers tough in 2000 playoffs where we took Lakers 6 and out scored them in total points!
im
@@superdopehiphop Only outscored then after they were already down 3-1
@@superdopehiphop Yall lost.
Yes that was one of the worst trades ever! George Karl did that it set us back 15 years for sure!
The Bucks traded a prime Ray Allen for a half year of a washed up Gary Payton. Might be the most unforgivable of all these.
The one-two punch of the Vince Carter trade and drafting Araujo made me rage quit being a Raptors fan until Masai arrived.
That Pau Gasol trade was easily the dirtiest trade at least in my lifetime. The execs quietly left and worked for the lakers shortly afterwards.
What about the Knicks trading a million assets for Melo when he would be a free agent in 6 months and they could've just signed him?
In all fairness, the nets had Deron Williams and were looking to trade for Melo as well. If the Knicks waited, the nets would've got him and melo might've resigned in Brooklyn since it was still home and he would've had an elite PG teammate with room to sign a third star
@@jeremyking9442 if I remember correctly, that was the reasoning. In hindsight it sounds crazy but Dwill was still a problem at the time & people forget Jay Z was part of the Nets organization at the time too. Knicks couldn't risk it
@@jeremyking9442 Actually, melo made it known he was going to the Knicks and requested a trade specifically to them and forced their hand, he has a tremendous amount of blame to shoulder for his lack of team success in his career(although the Knicks, knowing all of this, still made the dumb decision to not just wait)
While this was a bad trade and a bad move on Melo’s part, sometimes when you want a guy, you need to go & get him.
As we are seeing right now, NBA players can be the most fickle people on the planet. Right or wrong, if they don’t get what they want, or don’t feel loved properly, they can easily change their minds & a team is left holding the bag.
A couple of seasons ago, the Lakers refused to trade for Paul George because they KNEW he was going to sign him. He ends up re-signing with OKC (there was some weird contract stuff that would ultimately net him more money down the line if he re-signed which was also a factor), and now he’s with LAC.
You can argue whether or not it worked out for LAL, but the key is that if you want a guy that badly, just hoping he falls to you might not always be the best strategy.
Honestly this sounds just like the Anthony Davis trade where the lakers gave up a million first round picks + lonzo ball + Josh hart + Brandon Ingram
The Iverson for Chauncey trade was pretty bad for Detroit. They've never recovered from it
That and letting Big Ben walk in FA
they weren't going to recover regardless, because the franchise was being sold and the rest of the Pistons were going to leave. It was a bad trade though. SVG pretty much put a few nails in the coffin after with a long list of stupid crippling moves.
I didnt think it was that bad as Iverson was still good but they decided Rodney Stuckey was the future at point guard... and I thought they may know something I don't. So I thought hmmm let's wait and see
It was so weird bc Billups played the first game and then boom he was traded for AI. I remember being in class and our teacher told us the news. I was sad but LOWKEY hype bc we got AI… AI was washed and didn’t go anywhere
@@ThatChefMaki well the Bulls way overpaid him, so I think the Pistons were smart to not try to match the contract.
I would love to see another Bill Simmon’s basketball book, perhaps even an updated Book of Basketball, accounting for the 13 years since the originally release. Because basketball has changed so much within that period. I know they continued it in a podcast form, but I’d love the 2.0 version in book form. That would be so awesome. I doubt we’ll get it, but I can dream. Lol
pretty sure he did a podcast - book of basketball 2.0. Something like that
I doubt we will, either, but it could stand for some significant updating. That book left off at the 1984 all star game as an endpoint in league history, as if that were enough to explain to younger fans why the league looked as it did ca 2008. So he went through pains to expound on the 1950s, 60's, the ABA, the merger. "And then we had the Bird- Magic rivalry, and then nothing much happened for 25 years." That's okay for longtime fans his age, but it felt like he was tired of typing and just wanted to hand in his work. So it doesn't cover milestones like rookie contract scaling, the Bird exception, individual maxes, luxury tax, the lottery, and subsequent changes to the lotto format to help fans understand why the league is what it is.
As a young Raps fan at the time, the Vince Carter trade winkled my brain. The only part of it I thought I understood was getting Zo back, but then he immediately went on record saying he wouldn't report to the Raps.
They talk about player empowerment today but in a weird way these terrible trades show that the GMs and teams refused to flex their power in those cases, trading players because of bad vibes and taking back pennies on the dollar. Just baffling. Who wouldn't give up a King's Ransom today for T-Mac, Vince, or Kidd in their primes???
I'll never forget Babcock saying "Oh. we never expected Zo to be coming here." Like wtf man?
As a child I remember thinking how cool it would have been to see Vince Carter, Tracy McGrady, Rasheed Wallace, Damon Stoudemire all on the same team
Worst part about that trade was Babcock justifying what a great haul the Raptors got.
What he sold: "A elite starter in the league, a proven veteran, a hall of famer at the end of his career, and two great picks for the future."
Reality: "NBA journeyman role player at age 32 (who wasn't even a starter), an end of the roster filler stiff, a dead contract and 2 low first round picks".
You literally couldn't do any worse than this. You should be fired just for suggesting this. How an actual NBA GM thought this was an acceptable deal for an NBA superstar still baffles me to this day. Babcock has got to be the worst evaluator of assets in the history of the league.
@@scoutwithoutclout Carter and TMac should've been like an earlier version of Wade and LeBron. Could've been such a Nasty duo.
People really go out of their way to forget how good Pau was.
The west was so stacked through his prime that he lacks the all star appearances, but he was easily one of the top 15-25 players in the league when he got traded, and one of the easiest fits...
And all for bench fodder and picks off a 55+ win team
Always my favorite nba content with you two. You guys are awesome
Yessir..need the whole podcast😎💯💯
As a teen I was a 76ers fan too. I agree with you on the trade in 86, but for a different player. I was a huge Len Bias fan. It was a triple heartbreak. First Philly trading away the chance to draft him, then the hated Celtics drafting him, and worst of all, Bias dying shortly after getting drafted.
As a Cavaliers fan, the Ron Harper trade still galls me. One of those deals that, as soon as you found out about it on the day it happened, you knew it was a disaster- and it was. I tend to think the Cavs wouldn't have won a title even had they kept Harper- they'd already lost twice in the playoffs to MJ and the Bulls with Harper- but it would've been nice to play it out with Harper just to see what would've happened.
It's obvious, the Westbrook trade. The moment that trade happened I was like OK LA went all out to sign LeBron and AD, won one chip and then decided to self destruct for the next three years.
I used to think, prior to the Allan Houston amnesty clause in the CBA, that NBA general managers had a sort of "gentlemen's agreement" that each team had to carry at least one horrendous contract on their books to spread out the load evenly across the league. There were so many bad, long-term deals made in the late 90's to about 2010, that there were plenty of them to go around. Those horrible contracts might explain some the terrible trades made in that era.
Let's just agree the Raptors organization was really really badly run back in the day.
1:52 Bill was gonna make a House suicide joke but then he had to redirect his thought on the fly. Impressive
Is there context to this? Like did House try killing himself or has Bill just gone PC?
@@hardwoodthought1213 bro ducking out of a suicide joke is not overly Pc💀💀
The JKidd trade brought Michael Finley to the Mavs where he had his best years (All-star twice, didn't miss a game for 4 years), and is currently employed as the VP of Basketball Operations, so not exactly a terrible deal. The Rondo deal though, oh boy. Totally unnecessary considering how well they were playing before the trade, +7.2 ppg margin before, +0.7 ppg margin after, and then of course Rondo quitting on the Carlisle and the team in the playoffs. We also traded Jae Crowder who's had a decent career since then, and Brandon Wright who was backing up Tyson Chandler as a really underrated Center combo (27 pts/15 rebs/3 blks between them) and who never found a home after that. Hated it when it happened, Rondo then justified my hate.
Steve Nash and Wesley Matthews come to mind too
I loved the Rondo and the Odom trades when they happened. Both ended up blowing in the Mavs face (Mavs still have Dwight Powell from the Rondo trade).
I loved the ASG 2010 trade with the Wizards getting Butler, Haywood and Stevenson for Josh Howard, Drew Golden and a few others.
Man I love Finley but he wasn’t even close to Kidd
As a Wiz fan, I lost my mind with the Foye/Miller trade
That Raptors trade buried us for like a decade. The entire reason we booed VC for so long was not because of him, it was because of that trade. We traded an all star and a top 5 most popular player in the league for literally nothing.
Worse than nothing. We got to carry a dead contract and 2 below replacement level players' contracts.
I want to believe the narrative that he only drafted Araujo to appease Carter's "win now" desire and not because he seriously thought Araujo would be better than Iguodala who everyone thought had a Scottie Pippen upside.
Shaq for Shawn Marion. Ruined the team identity and took away a year and a half of a title window. Suns wanted to go big and instead of getting Tyson chandler or Emeka Okafor and picks they took a brokedown hall of famer that never fit. Marion wins the title with the mavs like 5 years later. Still makes me question Steve Kerr.
Marion won the title three years later.
@@Doknot-tb9ey thanks for making me even more sad.
@@surewhatever5851 Sorry, I was just letting you know.
Steve Kerr was clearly meant for the bench versus the front office
Was the J Kidd trade really that bad?
Not that trading away Kidd was smart, dude became a top 5/7 player for the next 8 years.
But they did get back future All-Star and bedrock of those 2000 Mav teams in Finley, Cassell who made All-NBA in 04 (so still had upside) and AC Green who fair play wasn’t great, but compared to the rest of the trades listed it’s clearly the best return
Kidd was great, but Finley was a multi time all star himself and Cassell was a good player, had championship experience and was a clutch player. That was a pretty good trade all around. Why Dallas decided to trade Kidd, Mashburn, and Jackson never made any sense at all.
@Danny Tallmage I understand why you would trade one or even two of them if they're not getting along, but trading all three made no sense.
Mine, As a Hornets fan…
1996 Draft, trading 13th overall pick Kobe Bryant straight up for Vlade Divac.
Kobe had the Hornets hat on. We literally had him. Would have changed the entire course of history.
Meh, maybe. Kobe went into the perfect situation where he had one of the most dominant players in league history to carry him to 3 titles. Without early success kobe strikes me as the type of guy that would've left.
as a so cal lakers fan who was 5yrs old when the lakers got Kobe, my life would be so different had he stayed on the hornets
@@DavidDobrikAndNatalie He likely would have left but would have obviously made us worlds closer to winning a title in the early 2000s, and There is great pain in trading a generationally talented 18 year old for a good center in Divac who was off the roster after 2 seasons.
The Hornets GM did not believe in Kobe
@@kevinowens3774 Captain hindsight.
12 other teams passed on Kobe....
Spurs got Kawhi (15) for George Hill...
How did Bill not mention the Harden trade from OKC? He's been yammering about it for 10 years
They got Steven Adams with that pick and he never won a title
Absolutely. Probably the greatest young core that was given up on too early.
@@micahclawrenceone of the most overrated centers of the last decade
@@eeeee4686 he’s the reason the Thunder got up 3-1 on the warriors.
Kevin and Russ choked not Steven
@@micahclawrence he gets benched in the playoffs he can’t shoot no post game his defense is bad gets abused on switches and is an average rim protector. Poor mans Andre Drummond
The Andrew Bynum to Philly trade should be on this list. There’s not a day that goes by where I don’t think about it.
the kidd trade was pretty good under the circumstance. of course they would have been better off keeping him but they got sam cassell and michael finley who went on to be all stars.
Hawks trading Wilkins for Danny Manning in 94 while they were number 1 or 2 in the East.
Nets should make this list multiple time. The Pierce, KG and both Harden trades were an absolute disaster. A caveman could have done a better job 😂
Bill loved that trade for his team lol
What you mean you shouldn’t trade a ton of firsts for two players past their primes and who were only going to get worst
1. former Pelicans/Hornets GM Dell Demps traded Chris Paul to the LA Lakers for 4 starters: PG Goran Dragic, SG Kevin Martin, SF Lamar Odom, PF Luis Scola.... but the NBA stepped in, canceled it, & instead sent CP3 to the LA Clippers for Al Faruq Aminu, & Eric Gordon (who was one of the most apathetic players in the franchise history). It was really bad, and that's probably why Demps played such hardball on his way out dealing with the Anthony Davis trade bc he was still bitter about having his hand forced.
2. rookie Kobe Bryant got traded from the Hornets on draft day for Vlade Divac. Everyone knew it was bad at the time because Kobe was regarded as the next high school phenom.
There's some you just know are bad at the time, like someone mentioned the bynum one that was baddd. Then there's some that might have looked okay and lookin back you're like seriously? But of the ones they mentioned, the cp3 one would be my pick
I'm confused is the full video available on Spotify... Or they just upload random small video clips to promote the Spotify audio?
Not sure about Spotify, but some of these short video clips are from longer videos (1-2 hours), which themselves are part or all of a podcast.
Two of my least favorites: dubs trade Webber for three picks that ended up in the twenties and a bunch of crap so that their coach ended up quitting anyways (Chris Cohen sucks), and Jamison for Nick Van Exel (nothing like having the pick up player who thinks he can make every three, even when he goes 0-40)
Yeah the Webber trade is brutal. I'll never understand why the Warriors have him that one year out clause.
I'm actually with Bill on this. That Gobert trade is awful the other way. It's not a star player going for nothing. It's a flawed star on a yuge contract going for an entire franchise's next decade.
You're all assuming a lot when talking so bad about Gobert. The trade could end up being a huge W for Minnesota. Those picks could all be 20-30 and the best asset going to Utah would be that and... Vanderbilt? A 34-y/o Pat Bev? Sad.
Tremendous defense, that should not be argued.
In offense, he gives perimeter guys great options with pick and roll, great screener. But he never benefited from a good playmaker and still got to ~15ppg with no looks.
You know he could be a 20-13 guy pretty easily with elite defense, right?
I know both of these guys probably love this trade but isn't the worst trade ever the Celtics moving on from Pierce and Garnett and shipping them to the Nets for some guys and three first round draft picks and a pick swap?. Brooklyn got murdered in that trade and it set them back for 5 years
Lakers got screwed out of the Chris Paul trade that got vetoed. I think the Pau Gasol trade was a mea culpa by the league.
how was it a mea culpa by the league if the CP trade happened AFTER the Gasol Trade? (Gasol trade was in 2007/2008, CP was in 2011)
@@Anthony97279 gotcha . I think the league was already under fire that they let grizzlies trade away gasol for Kwame and a bunch of jabronis that Stern felt that the lakers would be getting g too much if Tbey got CP3 in what he /league felt was a lopsided trade .
@@eddiechase305 oh okay I got what you were saying, thanks for the clarification
the only reason I think this trade isnt talked about as one of the worst trades of all time is because Marc gasol ended up becoming a hall of famer on par/better than his brother, so it worked out in the end, but they really did give a prime all star up for absolutely nothing
Andrew Wiggins and the #7 pick that became Jonathan Kuminga for D’Angelo Russell might end up being one of the doosiest of the 21st century.
It’s a really stark example of how culture and the ability to develop young players is a really under-developed element to team building. Wiggins was widely considered to be a bust by the time he was traded away from the wolves. People actually clowned the Warriors for it. It’s just that some teams suck at developing and maximizing talent.
Orlando and McGrady is a great point, imagine if the Dwight Howard Turkoglu Lewis magic teams had TMAC
That was 2009 Tracy was kinda old at that point, still would’ve been a good piece on that team but def not prime tmac anymore
@@WILLIAMtheKIWI that’s true, and I suppose if they never got rid of TMAC they wouldn’t have bottomed out to get Howard with the first pic either
Nets trading Vince Carter and Ryan Anderson to the Magic for Rafer Alston, Courtney Lee and Tony Battie…. Aka tanking for LeBron….. only to not get LeBron and instead sign Travis Outlaw, Johan Petro and Jordan Farmar…..
sometimes I wonder how great this podcast could be if they had $30 to pay a teenager to tack on some graphics to go along with the dialogue
Surprised Bill didn't bring up the Harden trade to Houston.
As a raps fan, this is why I will never have love for VC, forced his way out so we got back trash and whaaa, I’m shocked BS didn’t bring up the harden trade, he’s written so much about it
I have complicated feelings with Carter. I can get behind the love because we probably don't even have a team without him, but everything between 2002-04 was just brutal. Even though I don't blame him for wanting out, there is no one that looks great over that period.
VC gets some blame. But ultimately Babcock is the one who made the decision to take the worst trade offer ever. Everyone in the NBA was like huh? We would have offered more, why did they take that offer?
The worst ever has to be Memphis trading Pau Gasol to LA for Kwame Brown. Even Greg Popovich was openly pissed off about how little Memphis got back.
It seemed like most of the trades that Bill was upset about were because a team traded a Star away and didnt get enough back for him. The Gobert trade upsets him because the Wolves gave up way too much.
Wolves win that trade imo
Holy shit. Bill Simmons looks super different to me
Kurt Thomas and 2 first round picks to Seattle for a 2nd round pick. Effectively closed the door on the Suns replenishing around Nash. Will never forgive Sarver for that move
Bill wrote about the terrible Suns organization un-building around Nash... he mentions they could've drafted Iguodala instead of signing Quentin Richardson (he keeps pushing "Deng or Iguodala" with emphasis on Deng, and like... I grew up a Bulls fan, I like Deng, but the pick is Iguodala, the fuck you talking about?) and then you have Nash, Joe Johnson, Shawn Marion, Andre Iguodala, and Amar'e Stoudemire...
AND they dumped several picks to get rid of Quentin Richardson's bad contract, including a pick to OKC that became Serge Ibaka! Fucking imagine the defensive switchability of Iguodala, Marion, and Ibaka with Nash running the point! Are you fucking kidding me?!?
(They dumped Richardson and picks for Kurt Thomas, I think? Then Kurt Thomas and picks for nothing; so the OKC pick wasn't part of the Richardson salary dump, but it was part of the salary dump of the bad-but-not-as-bad-as-Richardson's cap dump; it's part of the Richardson-cap-dump trade tree.)
You assume they would've at some point had to have dumped some of those players for cap reasons; in my mind you get as much as you can out of the Nash, Johnson, Marion, Iguodala, Stoudemire core, then as it gets too expensive, you move out Johnson and eventually Stoudemire, for cheap role players and/or picks, and you get to inject Ibaka into that... one of the 1st they lost as part of the Richardson cap dump trade tree was in 2010; late enough that nobody was particularly intriguing BUT it was the draft where Jeremy Lin went undrafted. More than a bit disingenuous of an argument, it never would've happened, but imagine you build around Nash with Iguodala, Marion, and Ibaka, have enough success - hard to imagine you don't get a ring, or 2, or 3 - and so you keep D'Antoni, and then you use that 1st to get Lin as a backup G behind Nash?
NBA 2k always does these "recreate the iconic NBA career moments" with MJ, Kobe, and LBJ... I don't find those fun or interesting, you're simply trying to be as good as the actual version was. I would have a ton more fun if it was about *fixing* a historical fuckup, doing something *better*, such as "You're the GM of the Suns right after they got Steve Nash; don't fuck it up".
Or, as a Bulls fan, I'd love to re-do MJ's Wizards years. You could draft Pau Gasol, but I'd actually trade the 1st to CHI for Elton Brand because I'd also grab the Bulls' 2nd round pick and get Gilbert Arenas there - get Arenas to the Wiz a few years early - and not do the Stackhouse trade. Just build around MJ, Rip, Elton Brand, with up-and-coming Gilbert Arenas, plus role players like Ty Lue and Brendan Haywood.
The TMac trade was legit not bad lol
As a Lakers hater the Pau Gasol-Kwame Brown trade still stings me to this day. Everybody who watched the NBA knew Pau was a great player, the fact the Grizzlies gave him away for a bust, Javaris Critterton, Aaron McKie and an overweight Marc Gasol who they couldn't suit up for another year since he was playing in Spain is beyond parody to me. Jerry West might have had some dirt on Chris Wallace to convince him to fold like that and singlehandedly gifting the Lakers 2 more titles
That one felt like corruption. Lie send Kobe another star to get LA another ring type deal.
Bring up the kevin garnett trade oh wait no you won't who was the timberwolves GM that year just curious? Oh ok
I guess KG gift wrapped to Boston slipped your mind!!!!
Bills the goat
Haven't watched this but I bet the Gasol trade he hates the most
RR could probably do with a bit of therapy about that whole nursing home period by the sound of it ngl
Vintage wheelhouse segment
Funny how the KG deal isn't mentioned.
Bill forgetting that Jim Jackson and Kidd had a beef and they traded Kidd who was the better player think they proly could have got that same package for Jim Jackson
If you grew up and the sixers were good and fun to watch it made you a better human. Dr j. Moses. Sir charles. A.i.
NBA star player trade always suck.
The 76ers trading away Moses was dumb.
you can hear the anger in bill's voice every time he brings up the pau gasol trade. it happened 14 years ago, Memphis fans have long gotten over it, but ol' billy boy still can't let it go. it's delightful.
What's even better is that yes that trade was horrific but not as bad as Kevin McHale gifting the celtics Kevin Garnett for free or the celtics getting ray allen for a bag of skittles
Only trade I know where a team got a young player who turned out to be a HOF, but it’s totally written off as luck. Wallace was bad and it probably was lucky, if it eventually works out it eventually works out.
How did the Bucks trading Ray Allen for Gary Payton on an expiring deal not make this list! Painfully awful return for the Bucks
Yeah but dallas got nash not soon after and Finley was a beast at the time! I hear you but Nash and Kidd are kinda a wash
First off, Pau gasol wasn't gonna stay with Memphis long term, so you gotta get value. Second, Marc gasol for Pau alone woulda been a great return, Kwame was more of a cap throw in. It's slander to say Jerry West (greatest exec of all time) "got lucky" with how marc turned out. Just cause Bill hates the lakers so much doesn't mean he shouldn't do his homework, discrediting the lakers won't add banners to the garden bruh...but hey, anything for content! 😆
How many teams knew Halliburton was available
Trading away Dirk at draft night is one of the worse ever.
They care about basketball and don't just want to further their and unfortunately stephen a doesn't care about basketball. There are a lot of media people that are jaded
Pau Gasol to the Lakers was absolutely awful.
But the Pau trade set up Memphis to be contender for years to come. Not a bad trade at all.
Exactly and of course he doesn't mention the Kevin McHale giving the celtics Kevin Garnett to the celitcs for free trade
Moses was 36 years ago. Just sayn...
Why does nobody ever mention Caron Butler for Kwame Brown
People forgot that Marc Gasol was in the Pau trade.
Pau gasol trade
Sam Cassell and Finley for j kidd ain't terrible actually that's decent value back
The Mitch Richmond for Billy Owens trade still stings.
Oh man, Mitch was my favorite player and they traded him for a meh player
Thank vince for that. Most unethical unprofessional player of all time that basically fixed games and tanked his value by playing like shit for weeks. Was averaging like 14 ppg. No effort at all. Older raps fans remember and he will always be booed
Vince Carter was never a great player. Best dunker I’ve seen but nothing else
Good player? Or average?
Second!
Reading Readers Digest because yer so bored is a very specific joke for almost 50 year olds.
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first
Shaq trade
So David stern rigged the nba for the Lakers twice?
Wait until you find out how they won the title in 1988
Wait until you find out how the celtics got kevin garnett
@@jakesmooke3644 they traded for him...?
@@Hazztech No kevin mcchale gave his former team KG for free so they could win a title
I don't get the F bombs. Doesn't make their podcast better IMHO.
anybody curious why alonzo mourning had kidney issues 💪💉💪💉
Bill Simmons is kind of a joke
Worst trade ever was KG to Boston.
they should POD the opposite.
trades THEY LIKED that turned out to be ultra shitty.
have some balls and talk about that. its so EASY to talk about any trade in hindsight.
but what trades did they like (or even love at the time) that turned out to be stinkers?!!?
that's what we really wanna know.
i like these guys. sometimes. but they don't really have the balls to go along with their tough talk 🤦🏾♂️