Nightheart isn't a firestar clone, he's a breezepelt clone. parental issues, teenage angst, angery, black cat amber eyes. If he was a fourth arc cat he'd be manipulated into the dark forest by now angrily training to get revenge on all flame colored tabbies.
I want to see a medicine cat villain. I’m tired of the sweet, can do no wrong medicine cats. A mediator villain would also be cool, as the potential of these two powerful roles using their power to warp and bend the Clans to their benefit could be neat if done correctly.
Scourge should have been given more time. Like sure he threatened to drive the cats out of the forest and killed Tigerstar, but it was all fixed in one book, and he was killed off and never seen again.
This may not be a hot-take but, we need the perspective of a strong villain, as part of the main series. A pov from Ashfur or Sol could of been amazing, or a new cat who we slowly see turn into a villain. I think it would be really cool to see the perspective of an antagonist and a protagonist.
I think this would be amazing to see a cat that truly has good intentions in the beginning, and they slowly develop into a cat that is willing to do anything for their goals including bad things thinking it'll be worth it but it ends with hurting others
I realllly want an ashfur book. There are plenty of times when I wish I were on the Aaron Hunter team because I have so many ideas for how to write him! One of my personal favorite head cannons is the ashfur was struggling it to be good and squirrel flight always helped him with that. he was trying to make an effort to choose to be a better person and then she dumped him for bramble claw who he knew treated her worse. At first, he hated bramble claw, but when he was hanging out with hawk frost, who still thought that bramble claw was on his side, hot cross, convinced him that squirrel fight was to blame, taking advantage of his unsteady morals. I typed all of this with a voice text and it’s really long, so I’m not going to fix the mistakes, so good luck figuring out what any of this means.
Personally, I would’ve loved to see more of Longtail. He’s such an interesting character with an actual nicely written redemption arc, and to see how he develops from hating Firestar and being an angry cat who’s buds with Tigerclaw, to being a chill dude who’s pretty good on terms with Firestar. If he didn’t get blinded, I think he could’ve gone on to be deputy, considering how much of a skilled cat he is, and how many apprentices he’s trained. Even blinded, it would be nice to see a cat with a disability ACTUALLY have an important role for once that isn’t a medicine cat. Longtail had so much potential, and the writers just flat out ignored it.
Silverstream's death is sad even though she was a bland character. Her father had already lost so many loved ones, Greystripe lost the love of his life and her kittens would have to grow up without their mother.
Yes, actually Crookedstar's Promise was one of the wc books that made me really sad lol. Actually most of the super editions from this era were so sad to me, like Bluestar's Prophecy or Yellowfang's Secret
Redtail had a novella, Redtails Debt, but Lionheart is literally a throw away cat with nothing to him! He just dies, gives Firestar a life, and exists in StarClan!
I think that a lot of people are forgetting that Stonefur even existed. I know this may be a weird thing to say but I personally feel he could’ve gotten more attention then just us barely getting to know his character in the first arc and the few super Editions and novellas he appeared in. Sure he got a bit of character development in Mistystar’s Omen, but I feel like we could’ve gotten more, like, it would’ve been kinda cool to see him appearing in a dream from Hollyleaf or something because of their similar lives with both of them being half clan. And let’s not forget that Stonefur had one of the most dramatic deaths in the first arc. Edit: Thanks for all the likes!
Man I kind of want to write a short story with Hollyleaf and Stonefur now. It would be nice to add some extra content for the both of them since they are criminally underrated as characters imo
The reason why Dawn of the Clans is my favorite arc outside of The Prophecies Begin, is because it adds so much fresh lore and character arcs that we never see again. I feel like “two brothers who are close but drift apart and end up fighting each other,” is done better and way more dramatically between Gray Wing and Clear Sky while Brambleclaw and Hawkfrost wasn’t as deeply developed as I’d like. I understand that DOTC has problems with writing female characters to be as important as the male characters, but Wind Runner and Tall Shadow are definitely interesting, add weight to the plot, and are way more interesting than Thunder as Leaders. Gray Wing is also the best POV character I’ve ever read, his conflicts between Clear Sky and Thunder are so well written and interesting that none of the books in that series make me feel like I’m reading filler. Everything from Bright Streams death to Turtle Tail having kits with a kitty pet and Gray Wing loving them so much even after she dies is heartwarming. The kits are treated as more important in these books and we actually get to see them grow up and become adults with their own aspirations. These books definitely had the most effort put into them seeing as the writing team had to start completely from scratch and find reasons to explain why everything became part of the clans. I also kind of prefer the names of the cats in these books, we have some really good ones that aren’t represented in new books at all like: Jackdaws Cry Sun Shadow Jagged Peak Clear Sky River Ripple Turtle Tail Star Flower Moth Flight Quiet Rain Like these name combinations are never seen to the extent as they are in DOTC. I also think all of the tension and drama and death surrounding the territories are more realistic. We have cats actually being described as having their flesh melting off from a fire, cats falling to their death, siblings murdering each other in graphic detail after seeing their great relationships (Jackdaws Cry and Falling Feather if I remembered her name correctly) the deaths have so much weight to them in this arc that pretty much all of them take a toll on many characters throughout the books. Clear Sky losing literally every single one of his mates one after the other is hilariously tragic and Gray Wings death is probably the most emotionally charged death in the series. Getting a POV death is basically unheard of for the main series and Gray Wing is a fan favorite, so actually seeing him die like that is a tear jerker for sure.
Yes! Yes! Yes! Very good points! Almost all the other arcs seem boring compared to DOC, and the only thing DOC could've done differently was not rushing Clearsky being forgiven. He did lots of crappy stuff, and honestly didn't deserve to go to Starclan or become a leader. It would have been really cool if he was the first cat in the Darkforest, especially because he did worse stuff than Thistleclaw and Mapleshade.
Yeah, the deaths were dramatic and the naming system was great, but Clear Sky's villain arc was *COMPLETELY* ruined. Everyone was just forced to forgive him and were just like "Ok, you kicked your son out of your clan twice, started a war, stole territory, attacked people for saying something you don't like, and exiled cats for being injured. Let's forgive you like nothing ever happened!" For god's sake he's *so* much worse than Mapleshade.
Dawn of the clans is SO underrated. You don’t have to read them to read the vision of shadows. But you’d probably be confused at who this ‘Grey wing’ is in a light in the mist, of which the strange cat who was talking to Twigbranch when she was finding her kin. I definitely agree though
If I'm being honest, I REALLY want Nightheart to turn into a major antagonist. I know we will probably get someone else with the whole RiverClan chaos, but I kinda want Nightheart to turn his angsty teenage phase into more of a villainous era. It's unlikely to happen, since you know that the Erins couldn't possibly make a forbidden romance actually bad, but Nightheart possibly being rejected by ALL of the clans and antagonising ALL of the cats (Sunbeam and all of his family especially) could be a good pov. It's the only redemption Breezepelt 2.0 could get now
For Warrior's 20th anniversary, hey should have made limited edition retro-style covers for all the newer books that didn't get one (Vision of Shadows and beyond)
I genuinely think TBC and ASC are some of the best arcs. They’re dark and the protagonists have unique personalities. Especially ASC they actually listened to fans and have made a lot of cats seem more like there own characters and have more cat to cat interactions that are meaningful
TBC isn't dark. And I would rather have the most boring protagonist ever than have to read one more chapter of Rootpaw from the first two books. That kid was so insufferable.
Yeah honestly the past couple of arcs have been fantastic in terms of quality compared to OOTS, TPOT, or the one with Twigbranch and Violetshine. I just hope they keep taking criticism like they have been. SPOILERS BELOW: Hearing about Bramblestar leaving/stepping down as leader in the newest book is a huge leap in terms of what's going on with the messaging in the books. Hopefully they won't unintentionally write another abusive character again because guinuinely good lessons can be taught about grooming/abusive mannerisms and behaviors to children as warnings about predators they may encounter. (Spottedleaf's Heart, for example, had a really interesting potential lesson with Thistleclaw being a child groomer/predator but they absolutely ruined everyone and everything involved. Bramblestar is a great example of a guy they wanted to have as a "they fight but they always come back stronger" husband to Squirrelflight but instead they write him constantly gaslighting and emotionally abusing her.)
I love hollyleaf in arc 4, but I’m arc 3 she was like a SkyClan character (modern SkyClan has the worst arrangement of characters, leafstar being a brat and everyone being “super loyal”) and was just really annoying to read about.
Yeah I hated her outrage in the power of three. Killing ashfur was interesting but then doing what he was gonna do anyways and just being selfish really annoyed me. And the fact that she's basically forgiven right away was even worse.
@@ghostyghost202 I think if Hollyleaf went to the Dark Forest despite barely trying to redeem herself except for saving Ivypool (like Juniperclaw saving Shadowsight as a kit) would have been relevant to the plot of the Broken Code with the whole Dark Forest Cats like Snowtuft wanting redemption
We (the fandom AND the books with the exemption of Mapleshades vengeance.) Have been portraying Mapleshade WRONG, not in a moral sort of way but in her strength. She relies on stealth for Ravenwing, not fighting skills, and a snake for Frecklewish, and short of a one-shot kill for Appledusk. She then gets killed by a teen. She is not meant to be strong and it would honestly be way cooler to see a villain that uses a workaround for the fact she can't fight, but she is just a strong “girl boss” fighter (which we had also gotten in the dark forest but ill settle for sleek whisker I guess)
I think Hawkfrost is a sympathetic villain. Not a watered down Tigerstar 2.0 or evil version of Brambleclaw. I’ve always seen Hawkfrost as a cat that was just desperate for some sort of love and acknowledgment. Which is why he pretty much blindly followed his father’s instructions and orders, because Tigerstar had given him that acknowledgment. Hawkfrost has a pretty screwed up childhood. The dude watched his big brother die and then watched his mother leave him, the person he looked up to as some sort of parent (Feathertail) just drops him and in his POV he doesn’t know why. Not only that but he often gets flack for being a cat that wasn’t born into the clans. With all these things combined, this had to have left a mark on him that made him desperate for some sort of acknowledgment. Hawkfrost seems to have abandonment issues. I say this because a lot of the times he is spotted with Mothwing, it’s evident that he’s close with her. When she wants to become a medicine cat, instead of being a warrior with him, I feel like he probably felt like he was losing his sister. After all, Hawkfrost was fairly affectionate with his sister before she revealed she wanted to become a medicine cat anyway. So he then fakes the sign from Starclan, to either help his sister become a medicine cat, or to feel some sort of control of the situation to make sure he wouldn’t lose her and to make sure she’d stay by his side. I mean think about it. He watched his big brother die and had the most dramatic reaction out of all of them, seemed to have mourned more than Mothwing. He then watched his mother leave him, and then Feathertail as well. That HAS to leave a mark on someone so young that they become fearful of abandonment, not just that but I also felt like that was the reason he was so reserved around all the other cats and kept putting this stoic and arrogant impression so they wouldn’t see him as weak. I don’t think he is interested in befriending the other cats because of his abandonment issues where if he believes he opens up to others. They’ll just drop him like that because of his father or because of his looks. Not just that but Hawkfrost and Mothwing held Tigerstar at a pedestal because Sasha never once said anything bad about Tigerstar. When they would ask questions about the things their father did. She would brush it away and paint the image that Tigerstar was a good cat, not some evil murderous treacherous creature. In fact, she tells him he was an incredible leader and was absolutely lovely, was selfless and fought two foxes off to save her. Which is why Hawkfrost later grows to admire Tigerstar- and in fact wants to be like him. Hawkfrost seems to want to connect with kin, because look at the way he treats Tigerstar or sees Tigerstar, look at the way he treated Brambleclaw, and the only times he ever showed emotion was around Mothwing, his sister. Tigerstar comes to Hawkfrost and just fully acknowledges him, saying how strong Hawkfrost is, how Hawkfrost deserves the role of deputy. I mean it’s no wonder he just kinda low key blindly followed Tigerstar. Tigerstar (except Mothwing) was kinda the only cat to actually acknowledge Hawkfrost (in Hawk’s POV) Hawkfrost wasn’t evil when he was a child. Unlike a lot of villains who were born evil. The guy seemed like he was born with a pure and timid heart. But considering his childhood, how people often leave him, how he has no friends, how he has to listen to people constantly talking about him behind his back because of who his father is. It’s kinda no wonder he became a villain if you think about it. I’d explain more but this is a lot as is and I probably sound delusional right now. But, that’s my take on Hawkfrost.
Tigerstar wasn't born evil either. His father leaving the clans and the brutal training he received made him evil. I honestly feel really bad for him even though he caused a lot of trouble for the clans.
My hot take is, maple shade wasn’t 100% at fault for her kits death, heck she didn’t throw her kits into a river and drown them on purpose. I hate how people shift it all on her, both leaders, her, and appledusk are at fault, not just maple shade. I will say she was never “good” she was very manipulative and I absolutely LOVE a manipulative perspective ❤ But I believe even if her kits didn’t die she would still become murderous, I would’ve loved to see her try and hide it from her kits
Oakstar (I think that's his name) should have banished Mapleshade and not her kits they were young and had no idea what was going on they weren't the ones who killed his son or lied about who their father was, and I think the book would have been cool to see kits grow up in a clan that exiled their mother with no second parent present because they are half clan. the only thing the kits was be born and they ended up paying for that.
Shadowsight is one of my favorites. He doesn't want anything bad to happen and tries to make things right but it only ends up worsening the situation. Shadowsight is like an outcast when all he wanted to do was help the Clans. What annoys me is how the Clans flicker between being understanding and being impulsive. Well, it's kind of always been like that but with Shadowsight, I can't recall at least 3 cats who defended him (if you can, please name them because I can't remember). It was basically the Clans berating a young cat for his mistake.
bluestar *was* reasoning leading to swiftpaws death. swift wanted to prove to blue that he was ready to be a warrior, so thats why he tried to fight the dogs.
I honestly think part of the reason I loved the first arc so much was partly the nostalgia, but also the fact we got personalities of the rest of the clan other than just names, and also the fact Starclan and medicine cats were so much more mysterious and I loved that, now it’s just a bunch of chaotic cats that have no idea what’s going on
Here’s a hot take for y’all: the Tribe was actually a really interesting concept. When I first read the series, I assumed there would be four of them just like how there were four Clans (SkyClan wasn’t even a blip on my radar at the time), and the Tribe of Rushing Water was just the RiverClan equivalent or something. I saw them and I was like “wow, that’s cool, does the type of society these wild cats form depend on where they live? Like, do some become a Clan and some become a Tribe? What else is out there? I can’t wait to meet an alternate Clan of sorts!” But then it wasn’t any of that and it sucked. And then PoT/OotS just made it even more confusing with ancient cats. I think one of my least favorite things was a super petty gripe I had with Stoneteller- if he hates Clan culture so much, why didn’t he rename Stormfur? Imagine how cool of a Tribe name he could’ve had! “Storm over raging water” or something, I dunno, I came up with several back when this thought first crossed my mind. So yea, TLDR, I assumed the Tribe was going to be a cool new thing, and it wasn’t. But I stand by my opinion that the Tribe(s) had potential to be so much more.
I honestly think feathertail was soooo underrated. She was brought in with the first "dramatic" scene with silverstreams death just for her not to do anything? Sure she had her dramatic moments of almost being killed by tigerstar but that was only dramatic bc of stone fur! Then she gets this big message from Starclan on how she has to save the forest and then dies!? WHAT!? She was so sweet and their was so much much more that could have happened for her...
Hot take: I honestly think that Fireheart/star was a good main protagonist, and that caused me to have a hard time moving onto Brambleclaw's perspective (Fireheart/star is one of my favorite characters too!)
Scourge is kind of a weird character. If you’re reading TPB and you already have heard of Scourge, you’re probably anticipating this as a big finale, instead he’s just some random rouge that shows up last book. He’s like Yoda, only popular because of his unique nature, with little “screen time”.
I was superrr excited to see the part with the Bloodclan battle because I thought it would be epic, and it was but Scourge kinda just died a few pages in- I would love to see more of Bloodclan too, since we only knew much about Bone and Scourge.
I think what made Jayfeather interesting was that when he was a POV MC, we got to see his thoughts, which showed the reasons as to WHY he was grumpy and reacted the way her did. Now, we don’t see that so all we see is “grumpy old kitty who wants to claw everyone but morally can’t, so he’ll hurt you in other way” but we aren’t seeing what’s going on in his head. When Alderpaw was having difficulties with him while Leafpool was in ShadowClan, Alderpaw snapping at Jayfeather probably reminded Jayfeather of when HE was an apprentice dealing with Leafpool and made him reflect on how he treated his apprentice, which was how he came to the conclusion that Alderpaw was ready to be given his medicine cat name. That’s the kind of thinking Jayfeather has, but we’ll never know because we never saw it like we did when he was a POV MC.
TigerStar’s death was too sudden. He was actually a good villain and he honestly scared me more than scourge. It was so obvious that LionClan could defeat BloodClan honestly and TigerClan freaked me out. Like obviously the main characters weren’t gonna die but what if a loveable side character died?? And in the BloodClan vs. LionClan battle, basically nobody that we were TOO attached to died. (No offense WhiteStorm lovers)
Okay but my hot take is that medicine cat chapters are the best chapters. I am there reading about them trying to find a cure, sorting through herbs, picking herbs, dealing with tough worries acting dramatic over a thorn. When a colored cough breaks out and theres no catmint, it's gonna be an amazing time. The warrior chapters dont make me as happy as the medicine cat ones.
3:42 skyclan’s destiny isn’t that bad :/ i actually liked it, the characters actually felt like characters instead of nobodies and seeing there journeys was enjoyable. (Keep in mind i skipped sticks chapters because I didn’t care so that made reading it enjoyable)
I want to know more about the Dark Forest cats like Maggottail, Silverhawk, Rushtooth, Houndleap and the others. Listening to their confessions about what they did during A Light in the Mist made me very curious.
2:33 that is my BIGGEST problem with MAPS that still persists to this day. In any warrior cat map, the artists will design apprentices which are often around 6 months or older which are the SAME. SIZE. AS AN ADULT CAT as little tiny baby kittens. This is most notable when it comes to ANY MAP that has Stonefur protecting Stormpaw and Featherpaw from the wrath of TigerClan. I don't understand why apprentices are seen as smol kittens. That's just not possible given the actual SIZE of cats when they get 6 moons, and when you actually THINK about WHY kits have to wait until six moons. Not to mention, if you ever read a phrase "it's too crowded in the nursery" IT'S BECAUSE THERE ARE SEVERAL NEARLY FULL GROWN KITS PLAYING AROUND IN A SMALL DEN.
Naw, a 9 month old cat is significantly smaller than a 15 month old cat. But I agree that it's more on the scale of 12 vs 20 years old and not 3 vs 20.
@@ktkc1o7 it's still the general shape and size it will be when it gets to 1 year. Again that's why when they say "the nursery is full" they REALLY mean the nursery is FULL.
@@ktkc1o7 You make a good point although I’m not sure I’d say 12 and 20 cause a cat’s first year of life is equivalent to a human’s first 15 (first two years of a cat’s life is equivalent to a human’s 25, which is around the time people are fully developed)
I think that if Frecklewish and all went to the dark forest Bluestar, all the other cats that mildly broke the warrior code with forbidden romances, leafpool, crow feather, lionblaze, oakheart, Graystripe, silverstream, etc etc, and other cats who mildly broke the code should go as well. All the “bad” they did and stuff could be compared and be almost equal to frecklewish, but they didn’t go to the dark forest, only freckkewish did, because in maple shades eyes FRECKLEWISH was the villain. They were writing it from her perspective, which when they were writing made Frecklewish seem all bad and probably when the Erin’s put her in the darkforest only thought of Mapleshades wrong accusations. Erin’s be like: kill your self trying to save some pretty much already dead kits ! Starclan is coming your way! Erin’s also be like: omg you ugly fox hearted cat you didn’t kill your self to save some babies which would have died anyway? You evil cat! Go to the darkforest. The cats other than Frecklewish only went to the darkforest because they were “good” main characters, friends of “good” main characters etc. they were so easily forgiven. Also, the leader (forgot their name) when Mapleshade was alive, in thunderclan, was DOUBLE AS BAD AS FRECKLEWISH. APPLEDUSK TOO. omg sorry I feel so damn strongly about this.
Same! If you think about it, there would have been no way for her to be close to reaching them. Mapleshade could hardly catch her kits, and when she did she struggled catching the other two and the one she did have was let go. Mapleshade was the closest cat to them, how would frecklewish be able to swim up and catch them? That would be impossible. And another point, when saving mapleshade, the river clan cats didn't jump into the water to save her, they pulled her up with stick. And I could make so many other points, in the book it says it was hard to hear in the rain, so for mapleshade to hear the river clan cats she would've had to be extremely close to the edge of riverclan. Frecklewish in my opinion, only crime was yelling at those kittens, they didn't deserve it, and you wanna make that arguement fine, but since rainflower is in starclan i will argue that frecklewish shouldn't have been condemned to cat hell. Frecklewish at worst is a morally gray cat, Wouldn't argue she a good cat but a cat worthy of being in the dark forest when cats who've done so much worse are in heaven chilling? No. Just no.
I personally thing it was a good idea to send her to the DF. I don’t think she deserved it, don’t get me wrong. But that’s exactly why I think it works. Cuz you’re right. They put squirrelflight on trial for something they forced her to do. They let Ashfur into Starclan. I know this probably wasn’t what they’re going with. But I like to think this could be good build up for the whole “Starclan is incredibly flawed and somewhat corrupt” theory that I’ve seen floating around
Leopardstar was a amazing character because she was basically all those "hot headed righteous characters that cant see what they are doing is wrong, and have a horribly tragic backstory", just if those cats where taken too far, and given a chance to redeem them self.
Mapleshade did NOT deserve to be exlied for her kits. There have been many half-clan kits in the series, such as Silverstream & Graystripe's kits, Oakheart & Bluestar's kits, and Crowfeather & Leafpool's kits. I understand why Silverstream and Bluestar were not punished for their kits because they died when the secret got out, but with Leafpool and Crowfeather, Crowfeather got no punishment, and Leafpool just temporarily lost her role as a medicine cat.
Ivypool didn’t need a mate or kits. It seems as if if your a she-cat, you need a mate. Ivypool was a perfect cat who didn’t need a mate or needed to have kits
I heard a lot of new and interesting opinions today! Helps getting a better view on things and getting out of the popular opinion sort of things which can get pretty suffocating sometimes tbh. Rad video as always!
2:11 YES! YES!! FINALLY!!! I’M NOT THE ONLY ONE WHO KNOWS THIS!! Swiftpaw and Brightpaw were actually a bit older than Cloudtail, yet Cloudtail was old enough to be a warrior, therefore so were Swiftpaw and Brightpaw. They may have not been 100% fully grown, but they were definitely warrior size.
My hot take is that every once in a while in the really sad and dark arcs, we just need a scene of a normal day in clan life. We never see normal days where nothing happens. I also really liked squirrelflight’s Hope when squirrelflight and leafpool go to starclan for a little bit, because it is a nice refreshing happy break from all the drama. I want to see that more!
swiftpaw, gorsepaw, and yellowfang are personally the saddest deaths for me in the first arc. I have no explanation to offer except that gorsepaw and yellowfang where amazing characters and swiftpaws death was undeserved.
*Hot take: Appledusk was at fault for Mapleshade's evil arc.* Just think about it: A. He never told Mapleshade that the river would flood, only that she should stay away from RiverClan, the only reason seemingly being the half-clan kits. B. Appledusk is a two-faced cat. He tells Mapleshade how he loves her and her kits and is so glad he could be with them, and then not even a day later talks about how how he made a mistake and he was not at fault. Then a couple days later he's saying that he loved Mapleshade all along and doesn't want her to end up a villain. C. He cared nothing about the kits. After they died, he just went on being jolly and letting Reedshine have his new kits. D. He was dating Reedshine first and decided that he wouldn't tell Mapleshade and just accepted her love for him. Mapleshade knew Reedshine liked Appledusk, but had no idea that Appledusk liked Reedshine back. Please don't start a debate in the comments :')
the time between the kits seeing appledusk and the kits drowning is a bit of time. not only that, but you can't exactly predict that rivers are going to flood. if the kits were swimming in the river just fine, then clearly there's no signs it's going to flood, and it isn't mentioned what season it is at the time or if it was raining. also - appledusk remarks before he tells mapleshade to keep the kits away from the river that patchkit is worn out from swimming. he's concerned that the kits are going to be swimming in the river one day and then get too worn out to get back on land. not only that! but it's common sense to keep your newborn children away from rivers! appledusk was obviously telling mapleshade that because they were newborns... (oh also - pretty sure mapleshade isn't BLIND... if a river is flooding you can very clearly see it with your own eyes that it is flooding) he's not twofaced either! in fact i have no idea where you got that from. his personality and opinions on mapleshade remain very consistent after he found out about the drowned kits - he hated her. he loved her while they were mates, but as most relationships go, he hated her after the breakup. he didn't start hating her for no reason and they didn't break up for no reason. he never said that he loved mapleshade all along and he never said that he didn't want her to be a villain. appledusk absolutely did care about the kits, it's clearly portrayed he worried for their safety and was thrilled to be a father. and i think you need to remember that the pov of the novella is mapleshade's. she's in a whole different clan to appledusk - we'd never see him worrying about the kits, thinking about them, or grieving for them. reedshine's pregnancy takes place a significant amount of time after the kits drowned, we'd never know if he had a mourning arc, because again it's from mapleshade's perspective it isn't confirmed which she-cat he was in a relationship with first. reedshine is showed to be friendly to him, but it wasn't fully confirmed that they were mates until AFTER they broke up, when reedshine was pregnant. there's context clues to show romantic interest, sure, but only from reedshine. it's clear she had a crush on him but nothing was showing that appledusk returned the interest during his relationship with mapleshade, except for mapleshade's paranoia telling her that the 'look in appledusk's eyes told her that he saw reedshine as more than a clanmate' final notes: im not an appledusk fan or apologist completely. i find him bland and boring, i just hate the demonization that he goes through because he moved on from mapleshade. it was never canonized that he was in a relationship with reedshine while in a relationship with mapleshade. if you guys want to hate a cheater, redirect your hatred to blizzardwing, who was an actual cheater and canonically was in a relationship with featherstorm (raggedstar's mother) while in a relationship with hollyflower (blackstar's mother) the absolute character assassination you guys put appledusk through is ridiculous when most of the stuff he's accused of was completely out of his control
@@nyra8263 Alright, there's a lot to take in there, but if he's not two-faced, why didn't he accept Mapleshade if he loved her more? Why didn't he ask a single thing about the kits, or even show that much sadness when they were dead? Appledusk didn't even seem that shocked after they died. Also, wasn't it that he told them to leave the river and then right after Ravenwing told Oakstar and Mapleshade got exiled? Going back and rereading, that does seem to be the case. Appledusk just suddenly started hating her because she revealed the secret to all his clanmates. And, they weren't newborns. They were two or three moons old which yes I agree is still young, but they were swimming like fish and weren't helpless. The only thing would to be improving their stamina.
@@thatdangartistgrrl 1. He didn't accept her because she was the reason their kids died. It's possible he still loves her, but a leading cause for breakups is child death. Think of Rainflower and Shellheart; though Shellheart loved Rainflower, she was putting Crookedstar through hell, and that's what caused their breakup. The same can be easily applied for Appledusk and Mapleshade. 2. The Erins have showed a few times that they can write grief well. Leafpool and Jayfeather, Brightflower and her kits, Cinderheart and Hollyleaf, I could go on. The thing about grief is that it's different for everyone. Not everyone is sad when they hear the news; in fact a large group of people are angry, like Appledusk. 3. Yes, I see now that it was a little bit in-between. I must've got that wrong. 4. I exaggerated the kits' deaths to make my point more agreeable, I didn't mean it seriously. Even then, as Appledusk pointed out, they weren't in the river for long and Patchkit was already exhausted. They weren't good swimmers, because they were kits. They had 0 training. In fact, in RiverClan, cats learn to swim at apprentice age, and there's been incident time and time again of RiverClan kits falling in rivers and not being able to swim out. If full-blood RiverClan kits can't swim very well, then Appledusk is right for thinking that the kits would be in danger near the river, especially since Patchkit was exhausted after swimming for at most 1 minute.
@@thatdangartistgrrl Crossed the river when they drowned? I'm unsure, but I don't see how it still matters. She can still visibly see that the river is flooding and neither she nor her kits knew how to swim.
Here's a take of mine: I liked all of the books where the cats traveled somewhere else. It was interesting seeing them adapt to new areas and seeing how cats outside of the clans lived.
I had a theory and hot take of why Ashfur was worse then Mapleshade (but it was made before the Broken code serries existed so please keep that in mind 😅): [WARNING: While I feel like it's already explanitory that there will be spoilers to Mapleshade's Vengence, The New Prophecy serries, and Power of Three serries I just wanted to give a warning just in case. So if you havent read those books yet please dont continue to read] Ashfur is FAR worse then Mapleshade, so I'm going to explain why. In Mapleshade's past she was put through so much stress and trauma happening on the same day that she got temporary insanity and schizophrenic halucinations. She truly believed and thought that her kits couldn't rest until she avenged them. Mapleshade loved her kits with all her heart, they were her world and ment everything to her. In the story she shows them nothing but love, and so when they drowned she felt like she had abandoned and betrayed them. Some people often forget that when the kits were drowning Mapleshade was so desperate to save them that she didnt care if she drowned along with them or died saving them. To show an example think of if there was a human mother (at the age of 19 or 20) who had never raised a baby before so this was her first time doing so leading her to be rather inexperienced and naive. On top of that she had to raise her baby on her own which made it even more difficult. So said mother had gotten a new car seat and thought that she tightened the seatbelt properly before starting to drive, but what she didnt know was that it actaully was on improperly accidentally putting her baby in danger. As she is driving safely another semi-truck had gone off the road and rammed into her car (so it was completely out of her control). The mom survived, but her baby died in the accident. In that situation you wouldn't blame the mother and say that she didn't care enough, you'd support her and try to tell her that she didnt mean for this to happen. Though a lot of people still blame Mapleshade despite the fact that her kits dying were exactly the same type of situation. Mapleshade was the type of mon who would do anything for her kids, so seeing them trapped in a purgatory state desperately asking her to avenge her over and over finally broke her. When she killed the three cats she wasnt in control or free will/sanity when she did so. Ashfur on the other hand knew EXACTLY what he was doing, he was in control of his actions and knew how cruel and sadistic his actions were, but he didnt care. Ashfur has the quote in quote "nice guy" problem where he assumed that Squirrelflight owed him and had to be his mate since he was nice to her. Not caring about how she felt and only thinking of himself, but yet he claimed to be the victim in all of it... Now he might've not suceded in killing three cats unlike Mapleshade, but he was fully in control while he did so. [WARNING: There will be spoilers of the Harry Potter series so if you havent read those books dont read the rest of this paragraph] Another good example of this type of argument is that Umbrige is seriously far worse then Voldermort. Voldermort being born by his father who was under a love spell cannot feel love or kindnesd, he LITERALLY is unable to do so. On the other hand Mrs. Umbrige does know what she is doing and can feel love and kindness, yet she chooses to hurt others anyways.
I'd also like to add that Ashfur not only kept his hatred for Squirrelflight over the years but acted on it multiple times while everything that happened to Mapleshade was very sudden. While rejection sucks, the fact that he balled it up for awhile, abused her adopted son (Lionblaze) and took advantage of his mentor status over him as a trusted adult warrior, and even attempted to kill her children to make her feel awful isn't even near justified. (TBC adds more to this as well, he continued to ball up his hatred rather than resolve it and it lead to many people dying because he couldn't get over the fact that Squirrelflight didn't love him like that.) Honestly Hollyleaf killing him may have been the best thing to happen to him. He may have gone on to do worse if he was to keep living since TBC proves that he didn't learn from the fire scene. Now onto Mapleshade. While I don't condone her actions in the murders of Ravenwing, Frecklewish, and Appledusk, there is a lot going on with her mentally with how she operated during her time alive. As you've mentioned, everything traumatic happened within a span of a couple of days so the shock was guaranteed to stick around until the time of her death. Shock and grief can do a lot to a person, so it's very easy to see why she committed the heinous crimes she did. That's why I'll always argue that Ashfur was worse than Mapleshade while they were both alive. 1st degree murder is always considered worst than 2nd degree murder in a mass majority of cases. (The only thing arguable about the two is the overall damage caused to other people, which Mapleshade is the queen of causing extreme harm to others lol)
This might be one of the hottest takes, but as someone who recently re-read the first arc, I'm gonna say it: Scourge isn't a good villain. His motives behind what he does are childish, and his potential was wasted so hard because he only existed for a _portion_ of ONE book. The fact that one encounter with Tigerstar that didn't even leave him with major injury caused him to hold resentment towards the guy (and possibly the entire clans) and slaughter him so brutally is pathetic, really. Tigerstar was a villain that got built on and truly felt sinister and cunning, and he was prepared to become Firestar's _true_ enemy, only to be shamefully killed off by a tiny cat over a grudge from YEARS prior. And then, despite showing how absolutely "powerful" and terrifying Scourge is, they decide to kill him off in the very same book, instead of letting _him_ grow into a better villain who could have been the second arc's major threat. Like seriously, that would have been SO cool! Plus, they could have leaned into Firestar learning about Scourge being related to him in some way (if they really wanted to). While it's neat that they are half brothers, the information is just as worthless as knowing Darkstripe and Graystripe are half brothers because the series DOESNT ACKNOWLEDGE THESE THINGS. Imagine how much more emotional, mental impact there could be if the storylines made it clear that some of these characters are related. It makes the deaths and drama more complex when you know these are siblings who are forced to fight and kill each other y'know?
Yooo early! Edit: There were honestly only a few things I could agree with in this, though it was interesting to see all these opinions! A bit disappointed one wasn’t shown, though I’m sure quite a few were left out.
Hot take- I dislike the tribe of rushing water, their leader was awful and narrow mined and he exiled brook and storm fur for something that wasn’t their fault and he almost gave up on his clan by not training another stone teller.
I found Silverstream's death to be VERY tragic, but not sad. I cried more over Badgerfang dying than Silverstream. In fact, Silverstream didn't make me cry at all. But it was tragic. Very tragic.
What do you all think of the new book? Probably spoilers in the replies. Edit: Shadow CZcams videos aren't out yet so I'm bored waiting for content (I read the whole thing). I wanna hear what other people think about it
Thanks Akira for reacting to my comment! Sorry I know it wasn't actually a hot take I just had to write it because it was just about one day after I've finished A Light in the Mist and I was pretty frustrated about the last book of Broken Code. Anyway those comments are really cool. I agree with many of them. Thanks for making this video.
I 100% blame Mapleshade for the death of her kits, her stupid choices killed them. But Miss Dako is right. Bluestar is also a terrible mother. Mosskit died because she gave up her kits to be a leader. She was too paranoid about Thistleclaw and it was confirmed never going to happen. Both cats took their young children out into dangerous areas (rapid river, snowstorm) and Bluestar's kits were way younger than Mapleshade's. I think the reason people don't fiercely condemn Bluestar as much is just because Bluestar doesn't blame everyone else for Mosskit dying and her giving up Mistykit and Stonekit. Mapleshade is deluded into thinking she did nothing wrong. But yeah Bluestar is a terrible mother.
Spotted leaf is a good character. The drama about her being Firestar’s second love and not being able to move on is something that the fandom is just wasting their breath on. Even if this scenario is so bad then why don’t we all hate Feathertail?
Seoul sly though yeah Spottedleaf was a little weird in the dreams but also Firestar was seriously also holding on and when he was forepaw if I remember correctly I don’t think she really talked to him when he was alive at least but in general I think like one or two prophesys
I think Frecklewish didnt deserved to die. Honestly it should've been Oakstar. Frecklewish had nothing to do with the kits deaths. And if you are going to say: she watched the kits drown. Don't. She saw Riverclan warriors and thought the kits would be okay. Oakstar was the one who EXILED freaking KITS!!! 😢 Also im not entirely sure mappleshade and appledusk would be that big of deal. Yes he did kill Birchface but im pretty sure that was after Mapleshade conceived the kits. Meaning Mapleshade was preggo when Birchface was killed and no one would have known that Appledusk would kill him. It was in the heat of things.
Taking everything into context, Oakstar banishing Mapleshade and her extremely young children during a bad storm and expecting them to survive is beyond horrific and I'm surprised that Frecklewish got the same treatment as other characters like Tigerstar, Mapleshade, Hawkfrost and Brokenstar when all she did was exist within the proximity of dying kits either not aware (which is possible) or helplessly witnessing knowing she has trauma with that exact river, no ability to swim, and that the conditions were too dangerous for her to effectively intervene. I'm sorry, but while it is sad that three children drowned in that river during the flood, it's more tragically sad if three children and one adult attempting to help the children drown. It's not only justified that she didn't kill herself for no reason but also unreasonable for Starclan for sending her to the Dark Forest on those grounds.
I agree with you but she DID have a reason for the kits death ; When Mapleshade was exiled and went to the River, Frecklewish saw her kits drown and die and Frecklewish did not save them (on purpose). But what's not normal is that Mapleshade killed Frecklewish WITHOUT KNOWING that Frecklewish did not save the kits on purpose. Mapleshade DID NOT SEE Frecklewish spying on her and seeing the kits drown without saving them. So I guess it was very unfair but fair
@@cherrerry okay but think about it: thunderclan cats don't know how to swim. Riverclan cats are known for swimming. So even if it was on purpose there was no reason for Frecklewish to go in the water. She didn't want to end up like her brother and flowerpaw
@@Lu13s I don’t like the argument that thunderclan cats can’t swim because they absolutely can. Hell Jayfeather proved they can and he was BLIND and almost saved Flametail Same with Squirrelflight and Leafpool as apprentices The argument of Frecklewish not knowing (which is actually book accurate because she didn’t) makes more sense
12:22 Medicine cats then: *I am smart, determined, and work hard to keep the clan cats healthy. I have trained hard and long to get where I am now and work my tail off for the sake of the whole clan* Medicine cats now: *hehe starclan magic go brrr*
Personally, I think that the hold Spottedleaf and Thistleclaw grooming stuff isn't bad at all and it something that should be shown in kids' books more often but the way it is shown and written is the bigger issue and with it continuing with Spottedleaf becoming a groomer herself with Firestar shows how the cycle can be passed on but then again, I think her feelings for Fireheart are a retcon by the Erin's but I would love to see real world problems pop up in the books more often but with Erin's who can handle the topic instead of just smashing the idea on paper and not doing anything with it
Except, Spottedleaf never groomed Firestar. It was portrayed as a one-sided crush throughout the first series. She even seemed to ship him and Sandstorm, especially in Firestar's Quest. Although at that point it seems the Erins had decided to make her crush on him as well, even though she's dead. I agree that her feelings always felt like a retcon.
@@ktkc1o7 I think that the writers kinda aimed it Spottedleaf having feelings for him the moment that he joined the clan but yeah the feelings are a major retcon in the books
She never groomed him, it was one-sided for a long while, and her age was later retconned. In the context of the first series, all we could assume was that she was young, probably not much older than Firepaw if at all, because that's how the books described her. Just young. I know you already said that her feelings were also probably a retcon, but I think it's important to mention that her being significantly older than Firepaw was a retcon, as well.
appledusk is literally just a dude. the others are some of the worst cats in the series (onestar a little less horrendous but still horrendous) and appledusk is just a guy. he MAYBE cheated on mapleshade or reedshine literally nobody knows and its never confirmed in-book that he did cheat and yall are lumping him in with the dude that exiled his newborn children into the cold forest while the river is flooding
@@nyra8263 that and the fact apple-dusk was trying to distance himself from maple because she was getting possessive of him and dove to take a blow for his then cat wife reed-shine
I am a 'boring' book supporter personally. Show me cats just being normal ass warriors/MCs, it's awesome in my opinion, because I would 100% prefer to be a boring warrior cat than a person and it's nice to see a life I'd rather live Good to see my take in this! :D
My hot take since i missed the poll: firestar should have picked Brightheart as his deputy, not brambleclaw. He had a personal connection to her as she got hurt during the crazy bluestar era and tigerstars schemes, his nephew is ger mate. Shes a strong she-cat with actual personality and an established story. Imagine a brightheart deputy. How jayfeathers arc might have been different if a disabled cat had been in a position of say. Brightstar. If i could choose anyone to have been a deputy and future leader. It would have been her
My secondary hot but is it really take: Most of the antagonists would have worked better as fusions. Darktail and Sol should have been the same character. Scourge and hawkfrost too. In fact, a lot of the plots and characters would be more dynamic if they were fused. Like- what if scourge won and the journey to the lakes was a refugee crisis? Or what if Darktail/Sol had used his time as a kittypet to give him knowledge clan cats wouldn't have (like how the eclipse works) and that was his way into the confidence of shadow clan? We could have had a really good counterpoint to the idea that kitty pets are inherently weak if they had let Darktail childhood give him an arsenal of info to weaponize. For example- imagine if he had figured out pesticides?
Me too. Hell, I'll go further: Lionblaze is on the whole my second favourite PoV in the PoT-Omen saga (number 1 is Ivypool). Jayfeather definitely have some great moments too, but personally I can think of way more Lionblaze scenes that stuck with me.
I also like Lionblaze. I would say I was the most invested in his character while reading tPoT even though they didn't conclude things the best way imo. I really found his issues interesting. In OotS as well. I feel like the fandom sees him as a totally different character than I see him as.
@@ghostcaty Yea I feel the same. I loved reading all of Lionblaze's mental struggles. He may be near unbeatable in physical combad and never risk any bodily harm. But he's still as voulnerable as anyone else mentally. Hell, even beyond that I've said many times that Lion-Jay is my favourite sibling dynamic in the series. And that wouldn't be possible if not both Lionblaze and Jayfeather contributed to it. They may argue and get on each others nerves every now and then but they still clearly love each other.
Mapleshade, knowing full well that half-Clan kits were against the Warrior Code, Chose to be open about her relationship and the kits’ father as far as I remember. That was reckless. She also tried to cross the river on her own. Bluestar, while I still don’t condone her actions entirely, at least hid their parents and made arrangements beforehand for her kits to be safe.
I'm glad someone mentioned that there are no windclan protagonists I felt that everyone was always saying that riverclan should get a protagonist and forgetting about windclan also we need less shadowclan protagonists and thunderclan obviously
Hi Akira, is there any way you can cover the new Copyright laws due to what happened with Into the Wild by Little Dragon Studios. I've heard this basically states no one is allowed to make a fan series of warriors anymore Based off the books. I'm curious if you could do research into this and make a video out of it if it wouldn't hurt the audience too much
I have two takes. 1. I don't like the super editions and novella's. They end up being mostly insignificant to the main plot, and just become problematic, like Spottedleafs Heart. The only use is extra reading when your caught up or can't find the next book in the main arcs. 2. As much as I love the series, it needs to end soon. Everything is repetitive at this point. Cross-clan relationships, cat teens feeling unwelcome and hated, drama between the leaders over the stupidest things, and drama with Bramblestar. (Can't we just kill him and move on with our lives?) I feel like everything from the first 3-4 arcs is being reused. The only original idea that I can remember is the whole ghost, Ashfur, dark forest thing. And that ended up incredibly inconsistent. I think the writers need to either get new ideas, or END THE SERIES.
A year late but: The first arc names weren't that good! Like, I guess you could say that they were more realistic, but this is a series of magic cats with medicine. Realism has never been important. Now we have such cuter names like Bristlefrost, Myrtlebloom, Sunbeam, and people don't like them? At one point in time, we had a Longtail, Cloudtail, Dappletail, Sorreltail, and Speckletail. The first arc names were SO boring but they're considered the best? Best first arc names were Morningflower, Silverstream and Swiftpaw because they sounded nice. Not because it was realistic to have twenty 'furs' and 'tails'.
Most people say that Swiftpaw had one of the 'bravest' deaths in warrior cats, fighting the dogs. But may I remind everyone, Swiftpaw was upset that he had lost his chance to be a warrior- so he decided to run off into the shadows, not exactly knowing what was there, and tried to fight the dogs. Also, not saying most warriors could survive, but if Swiftpaw was truly ready to be a warrior, he would have had better training or knowledge- meaning he should be stronger, or smart enough to not run into danger. According to the Warriors wiki, Swiftpaw was about 20 moons, while Bluestar's sister, Snowfur, was a warrior for a while, had a kit, and died ( sadly :( ) before Swiftpaw died. The wiki says she was only about 18 moons old. How was Swiftpaw brave, or 'deserved' his warrior name, if he wouldn't listen, wasn't patient enough, and didn't care how dangerous it was for him to do what he did? HE WASN'T READY, or even neccisarily brave if he put himself and his clanmate Brightpaw in a lot of danger. (Sorry for any bad spelling!)
Wait...if Bluestar not being in control of the dogs means that she wasn't responsible for Swiftpaw dying, then wouldn't the same logic apply to Mosskit's death?
Critique of the fandom A lot of rewrites or AUs revolving around ships and stuff that I see are super forced. They feel ingenuine and really do nothing towards rep. You wanna know why? We don’t have that many healthy friendship dynamics in warriors. We don’t see characters with strong platonic connections. Taking the ones we have and making them romantic is stupid. It is just as important to show healthy friendships as it is to show healthy romantic relationships. Warriors does neither of those things well. But it has more romance than friendships, tends to not just.. forget about relationships like it does to friendships. For god’s sake, let the characters have friends… And don’t erase characters with queer implications? Mousefur is implied to be canonically asexual and aromantic. I’ve seen people take that away and say “well in my opinion, actually she dated another she-cat!” That’s erasure. I don’t care if it’s lesbian rep, or mspec rep or whatever. Aroace rep is so hard to find. At least let us have that? Please warriors fandom. Not everything needs to be gay. There are other identities. Note: i’m not against queer rep. BUT if you’re going to have a headcanon like that and be so serious about it, at least give it a base. If there’s no chemistry, it’s still a bad ship. Even modern canon would butcher rep if they tried considering how terribly they write straight characters. I’m all for queer rep actually, but it’s not good rep if it’s forced. I’m pansexual if it matters, don’t take this the wrong way.
Bramblestar has PTSD, i don’t think that makes him a bad leader for stepping down. However i think he will end be regaining his leader role near the end. Now that he’s admitted to the problem, he can work with medicine cats to recover.
Willowpelt and brightheart are the best side characters. Brightheart we all know why But Willowpelt is WAY too underrated, to refresh your memories, she was in the first arc, and she was Whitestorms mate. She even raised Graykit because he didn’t have a mother! How kind :) I know it’s a pretty hot take, but Willowpelt was so fun to read about!
Ngl I almost guarantee that Bluestar would be called selfish for NOT taking her kits to Riverclan. She was told that Thunderclan would be destroyed if Thistleclaw became deputy and Sunstar literally told he he was making Thistleclaw deputy because she had kits to look after. Bluestar made the right decision. If she didn’t bring them to Riverclan the fandom would likely call her selfish because she didn’t save Thunderclan, and just cared about her kits.
I feel like Mapleshade barely got any book time, Erin basically said 90 pages is enough to develop a whole ass storyline and then basically throw it away. I think she should have gotten a bigger book, like maybe at least 200 pages. I stared at the next page and yelled "THATS IT?" after I finished, give my girly some more time!
When you said, 'Silverstream's death was no where near Cinderpelt's or Briarlight's death', I took that to heart. When I read Cinderpelt's death, I was crying and my mom came to check in on what was wrong because I was reading at 1 in the morning. hee hee night owl :)
@@rawr1131 sure but even so, she seemingly has no reason why not to make him a warrior especially considering he was 20 moons when he died from the dogs
I did not expect my comment to be here. 8:21 (I’m sunny) thanks for including it! Also fellow Sol disliker, thank you Frostybluestar if you are reading this
Nightheart isn't a firestar clone, he's a breezepelt clone. parental issues, teenage angst, angery, black cat amber eyes. If he was a fourth arc cat he'd be manipulated into the dark forest by now angrily training to get revenge on all flame colored tabbies.
omw fr
My little edgelord 🥰🥰🥰
I Love all characters mentioned in this comment. With a capital L.
Nightheart is the perfect mix between Jayfeather and Breezepelt
Oh my god you are so right
I want to see a medicine cat villain. I’m tired of the sweet, can do no wrong medicine cats. A mediator villain would also be cool, as the potential of these two powerful roles using their power to warp and bend the Clans to their benefit could be neat if done correctly.
That almost happened with Goosefeather. Gotta agree there's a lot of potential with this idea.
hell yes
THIS!!!
I think antagonist Mothwing (for reasons unrelated to her father) would've been really cool, but I do like her as is as well
Yellow fang left her clan, somewhat villain? Sorry, haven't gotten through even the first book lol
Scourge should have been given more time. Like sure he threatened to drive the cats out of the forest and killed Tigerstar, but it was all fixed in one book, and he was killed off and never seen again.
i completely agree with you.
Scourge should have been the Vegeta or Sasuke of Warrior Cats
i had seen so much discussion and art of him that i was definitely expecting him to stay for longer!! i was surprised when he died, lol
exactly! ive just finished the first arc and im quite disappointed that scourge didnt stay longer, but he was an interesting character nonetheless
maybe when he was a a kitten I cared but when he became the monster it was a big *FAT* juicy no.
This may not be a hot-take but, we need the perspective of a strong villain, as part of the main series. A pov from Ashfur or Sol could of been amazing, or a new cat who we slowly see turn into a villain. I think it would be really cool to see the perspective of an antagonist and a protagonist.
I think this would be amazing to see a cat that truly has good intentions in the beginning, and they slowly develop into a cat that is willing to do anything for their goals including bad things thinking it'll be worth it but it ends with hurting others
We already have Mapleshade...but ok
@@Stormflower not as part of the main-series though
I realllly want an ashfur book. There are plenty of times when I wish I were on the Aaron Hunter team because I have so many ideas for how to write him! One of my personal favorite head cannons is the ashfur was struggling it to be good and squirrel flight always helped him with that. he was trying to make an effort to choose to be a better person and then she dumped him for bramble claw who he knew treated her worse. At first, he hated bramble claw, but when he was hanging out with hawk frost, who still thought that bramble claw was on his side, hot cross, convinced him that squirrel fight was to blame, taking advantage of his unsteady morals. I typed all of this with a voice text and it’s really long, so I’m not going to fix the mistakes, so good luck figuring out what any of this means.
Definitely
Personally, I would’ve loved to see more of Longtail. He’s such an interesting character with an actual nicely written redemption arc, and to see how he develops from hating Firestar and being an angry cat who’s buds with Tigerclaw, to being a chill dude who’s pretty good on terms with Firestar. If he didn’t get blinded, I think he could’ve gone on to be deputy, considering how much of a skilled cat he is, and how many apprentices he’s trained. Even blinded, it would be nice to see a cat with a disability ACTUALLY have an important role for once that isn’t a medicine cat. Longtail had so much potential, and the writers just flat out ignored it.
I agree, longtail should have been a way bigger character than he turned out to be
Silverstream's death is sad even though she was a bland character. Her father had already lost so many loved ones, Greystripe lost the love of his life and her kittens would have to grow up without their mother.
Not me forgetting what happened in avos entirely x-x
@@ripscrumble that wasn't from avos that was from arc 1
I'm just reading the book where she died ehwherebsdub eurbe
Yes, actually Crookedstar's Promise was one of the wc books that made me really sad lol. Actually most of the super editions from this era were so sad to me, like Bluestar's Prophecy or Yellowfang's Secret
Yeah I personally didn't really care about *her* but I was sad for Greystripe 😅
Honestly we should had more presence of Redtail in the books that’s really sad
Redtail had a novella, Redtails Debt, but Lionheart is literally a throw away cat with nothing to him! He just dies, gives Firestar a life, and exists in StarClan!
@@Stormflower yeah but honestly I think they should have give us more content for both characters it’s really a shame
@maxxroxanne4ever416 yup
I think that a lot of people are forgetting that Stonefur even existed. I know this may be a weird thing to say but I personally feel he could’ve gotten more attention then just us barely getting to know his character in the first arc and the few super Editions and novellas he appeared in. Sure he got a bit of character development in Mistystar’s Omen, but I feel like we could’ve gotten more, like, it would’ve been kinda cool to see him appearing in a dream from Hollyleaf or something because of their similar lives with both of them being half clan.
And let’s not forget that Stonefur had one of the most dramatic deaths in the first arc.
Edit: Thanks for all the likes!
THANK YOU! YES! STONEFUR IS AMAZING!
Man I kind of want to write a short story with Hollyleaf and Stonefur now. It would be nice to add some extra content for the both of them since they are criminally underrated as characters imo
Ye I think stonefur should’ve been killed off a bit later or at least gotten some attention before his death
Stonefur was best deputy, and I still think Stonestar would have been a better leader than Bluestar 2.0.
I like Mistyfoot, but goodness...
YES FR STONEFUR WAS MY FAV CHAR-
The reason why Dawn of the Clans is my favorite arc outside of The Prophecies Begin, is because it adds so much fresh lore and character arcs that we never see again. I feel like “two brothers who are close but drift apart and end up fighting each other,” is done better and way more dramatically between Gray Wing and Clear Sky while Brambleclaw and Hawkfrost wasn’t as deeply developed as I’d like. I understand that DOTC has problems with writing female characters to be as important as the male characters, but Wind Runner and Tall Shadow are definitely interesting, add weight to the plot, and are way more interesting than Thunder as Leaders. Gray Wing is also the best POV character I’ve ever read, his conflicts between Clear Sky and Thunder are so well written and interesting that none of the books in that series make me feel like I’m reading filler. Everything from Bright Streams death to Turtle Tail having kits with a kitty pet and Gray Wing loving them so much even after she dies is heartwarming. The kits are treated as more important in these books and we actually get to see them grow up and become adults with their own aspirations. These books definitely had the most effort put into them seeing as the writing team had to start completely from scratch and find reasons to explain why everything became part of the clans. I also kind of prefer the names of the cats in these books, we have some really good ones that aren’t represented in new books at all like:
Jackdaws Cry
Sun Shadow
Jagged Peak
Clear Sky
River Ripple
Turtle Tail
Star Flower
Moth Flight
Quiet Rain
Like these name combinations are never seen to the extent as they are in DOTC. I also think all of the tension and drama and death surrounding the territories are more realistic. We have cats actually being described as having their flesh melting off from a fire, cats falling to their death, siblings murdering each other in graphic detail after seeing their great relationships (Jackdaws Cry and Falling Feather if I remembered her name correctly) the deaths have so much weight to them in this arc that pretty much all of them take a toll on many characters throughout the books. Clear Sky losing literally every single one of his mates one after the other is hilariously tragic and Gray Wings death is probably the most emotionally charged death in the series. Getting a POV death is basically unheard of for the main series and Gray Wing is a fan favorite, so actually seeing him die like that is a tear jerker for sure.
I agree with everything you said in this comment. They're such emotionally filled books and its compelling to see how the clans were made.
Yes! Yes! Yes! Very good points! Almost all the other arcs seem boring compared to DOC, and the only thing DOC could've done differently was not rushing Clearsky being forgiven. He did lots of crappy stuff, and honestly didn't deserve to go to Starclan or become a leader. It would have been really cool if he was the first cat in the Darkforest, especially because he did worse stuff than Thistleclaw and Mapleshade.
Yeah, the deaths were dramatic and the naming system was great, but Clear Sky's villain arc was *COMPLETELY* ruined. Everyone was just forced to forgive him and were just like "Ok, you kicked your son out of your clan twice, started a war, stole territory, attacked people for saying something you don't like, and exiled cats for being injured. Let's forgive you like nothing ever happened!" For god's sake he's *so* much worse than Mapleshade.
You're 100% correct! I love DotC!
Dawn of the clans is SO underrated. You don’t have to read them to read the vision of shadows. But you’d probably be confused at who this ‘Grey wing’ is in a light in the mist, of which the strange cat who was talking to Twigbranch when she was finding her kin. I definitely agree though
Why, do we always seem to forget Ravenpaw’s death, it was the saddest by far. No contest.
Because Ravenpaw’s death was in a novella that a lot of Warriors fans may not have read.
If I'm being honest, I REALLY want Nightheart to turn into a major antagonist. I know we will probably get someone else with the whole RiverClan chaos, but I kinda want Nightheart to turn his angsty teenage phase into more of a villainous era. It's unlikely to happen, since you know that the Erins couldn't possibly make a forbidden romance actually bad, but Nightheart possibly being rejected by ALL of the clans and antagonising ALL of the cats (Sunbeam and all of his family especially) could be a good pov. It's the only redemption Breezepelt 2.0 could get now
For Warrior's 20th anniversary, hey should have made limited edition retro-style covers for all the newer books that didn't get one (Vision of Shadows and beyond)
Sadly the original artist who did the old covers passed away, but I'd love to see them honor him and make the covers in his style! The art was so good
@@HiHi-lt1cb AWW THAT'S SO SAD. I really enjoyed their art
I genuinely think TBC and ASC are some of the best arcs. They’re dark and the protagonists have unique personalities. Especially ASC they actually listened to fans and have made a lot of cats seem more like there own characters and have more cat to cat interactions that are meaningful
I mean, they aren’t as bad as people make them out to be.
TBC isn't dark. And I would rather have the most boring protagonist ever than have to read one more chapter of Rootpaw from the first two books. That kid was so insufferable.
@legrandliseur tri Same. TBC was boring up until the last two books in my opinion.
Yeah honestly the past couple of arcs have been fantastic in terms of quality compared to OOTS, TPOT, or the one with Twigbranch and Violetshine. I just hope they keep taking criticism like they have been. SPOILERS BELOW:
Hearing about Bramblestar leaving/stepping down as leader in the newest book is a huge leap in terms of what's going on with the messaging in the books. Hopefully they won't unintentionally write another abusive character again because guinuinely good lessons can be taught about grooming/abusive mannerisms and behaviors to children as warnings about predators they may encounter. (Spottedleaf's Heart, for example, had a really interesting potential lesson with Thistleclaw being a child groomer/predator but they absolutely ruined everyone and everything involved. Bramblestar is a great example of a guy they wanted to have as a "they fight but they always come back stronger" husband to Squirrelflight but instead they write him constantly gaslighting and emotionally abusing her.)
@@IJustAnimateThatsTheJist so glad you agree!! They have been actively taking criticism and improving, especially with Bramblestar
I don't really like Hollyleaf, I like the fandoms Hollyfawn more.
I love hollyleaf in arc 4, but I’m arc 3 she was like a SkyClan character (modern SkyClan has the worst arrangement of characters, leafstar being a brat and everyone being “super loyal”) and was just really annoying to read about.
Yeah I hated her outrage in the power of three. Killing ashfur was interesting but then doing what he was gonna do anyways and just being selfish really annoyed me. And the fact that she's basically forgiven right away was even worse.
@@ghostyghost202 I think if Hollyleaf went to the Dark Forest despite barely trying to redeem herself except for saving Ivypool (like Juniperclaw saving Shadowsight as a kit) would have been relevant to the plot of the Broken Code with the whole Dark Forest Cats like Snowtuft wanting redemption
Fr
I understand
We (the fandom AND the books with the exemption of Mapleshades vengeance.) Have been portraying Mapleshade WRONG, not in a moral sort of way but in her strength. She relies on stealth for Ravenwing, not fighting skills, and a snake for Frecklewish, and short of a one-shot kill for Appledusk. She then gets killed by a teen.
She is not meant to be strong and it would honestly be way cooler to see a villain that uses a workaround for the fact she can't fight, but she is just a strong “girl boss” fighter (which we had also gotten in the dark forest but ill settle for sleek whisker I guess)
Dude what? In the first book where she ever appears, she beats Crookedstar with ease, and that cat is described as much bigger than her.
@@legrandliseurtri7495 you actually do have a point, I still consider her book the most accurate (even if it wasn't her first)
I think Hawkfrost is a sympathetic villain. Not a watered down Tigerstar 2.0 or evil version of Brambleclaw.
I’ve always seen Hawkfrost as a cat that was just desperate for some sort of love and acknowledgment. Which is why he pretty much blindly followed his father’s instructions and orders, because Tigerstar had given him that acknowledgment.
Hawkfrost has a pretty screwed up childhood. The dude watched his big brother die and then watched his mother leave him, the person he looked up to as some sort of parent (Feathertail) just drops him and in his POV he doesn’t know why. Not only that but he often gets flack for being a cat that wasn’t born into the clans. With all these things combined, this had to have left a mark on him that made him desperate for some sort of acknowledgment.
Hawkfrost seems to have abandonment issues. I say this because a lot of the times he is spotted with Mothwing, it’s evident that he’s close with her. When she wants to become a medicine cat, instead of being a warrior with him, I feel like he probably felt like he was losing his sister. After all, Hawkfrost was fairly affectionate with his sister before she revealed she wanted to become a medicine cat anyway. So he then fakes the sign from Starclan, to either help his sister become a medicine cat, or to feel some sort of control of the situation to make sure he wouldn’t lose her and to make sure she’d stay by his side.
I mean think about it. He watched his big brother die and had the most dramatic reaction out of all of them, seemed to have mourned more than Mothwing. He then watched his mother leave him, and then Feathertail as well. That HAS to leave a mark on someone so young that they become fearful of abandonment, not just that but I also felt like that was the reason he was so reserved around all the other cats and kept putting this stoic and arrogant impression so they wouldn’t see him as weak. I don’t think he is interested in befriending the other cats because of his abandonment issues where if he believes he opens up to others. They’ll just drop him like that because of his father or because of his looks.
Not just that but Hawkfrost and Mothwing held Tigerstar at a pedestal because Sasha never once said anything bad about Tigerstar. When they would ask questions about the things their father did. She would brush it away and paint the image that Tigerstar was a good cat, not some evil murderous treacherous creature. In fact, she tells him he was an incredible leader and was absolutely lovely, was selfless and fought two foxes off to save her. Which is why Hawkfrost later grows to admire Tigerstar- and in fact wants to be like him.
Hawkfrost seems to want to connect with kin, because look at the way he treats Tigerstar or sees Tigerstar, look at the way he treated Brambleclaw, and the only times he ever showed emotion was around Mothwing, his sister. Tigerstar comes to Hawkfrost and just fully acknowledges him, saying how strong Hawkfrost is, how Hawkfrost deserves the role of deputy. I mean it’s no wonder he just kinda low key blindly followed Tigerstar. Tigerstar (except Mothwing) was kinda the only cat to actually acknowledge Hawkfrost (in Hawk’s POV)
Hawkfrost wasn’t evil when he was a child. Unlike a lot of villains who were born evil. The guy seemed like he was born with a pure and timid heart. But considering his childhood, how people often leave him, how he has no friends, how he has to listen to people constantly talking about him behind his back because of who his father is. It’s kinda no wonder he became a villain if you think about it.
I’d explain more but this is a lot as is and I probably sound delusional right now. But, that’s my take on Hawkfrost.
Tigerstar wasn't born evil either. His father leaving the clans and the brutal training he received made him evil. I honestly feel really bad for him even though he caused a lot of trouble for the clans.
My hot take is, maple shade wasn’t 100% at fault for her kits death, heck she didn’t throw her kits into a river and drown them on purpose. I hate how people shift it all on her, both leaders, her, and appledusk are at fault, not just maple shade. I will say she was never “good” she was very manipulative and I absolutely LOVE a manipulative perspective ❤ But I believe even if her kits didn’t die she would still become murderous, I would’ve loved to see her try and hide it from her kits
Oakstar (I think that's his name) should have banished Mapleshade and not her kits they were young and had no idea what was going on they weren't the ones who killed his son or lied about who their father was, and I think the book would have been cool to see kits grow up in a clan that exiled their mother with no second parent present because they are half clan. the only thing the kits was be born and they ended up paying for that.
Mapleshade is an absolutely awful, evil cat. But I don't blame her for her kits' deaths. Appledusk on the other hand, makes my blood boil.
Exactly! She’s not a good cat at all, but that doesn’t mean the kits’ deaths are entirely her fault.
Yeah she went through so much and almost nobody feels bad
we can all agree they're all at fault maybe darkstar more than others.
Shadowsight is one of my favorites.
He doesn't want anything bad to happen and tries to make things right but it only ends up worsening the situation. Shadowsight is like an outcast when all he wanted to do was help the Clans. What annoys me is how the Clans flicker between being understanding and being impulsive. Well, it's kind of always been like that but with Shadowsight, I can't recall at least 3 cats who defended him (if you can, please name them because I can't remember). It was basically the Clans berating a young cat for his mistake.
samee
bluestar *was* reasoning leading to swiftpaws death. swift wanted to prove to blue that he was ready to be a warrior, so thats why he tried to fight the dogs.
I honestly think part of the reason I loved the first arc so much was partly the nostalgia, but also the fact we got personalities of the rest of the clan other than just names, and also the fact Starclan and medicine cats were so much more mysterious and I loved that, now it’s just a bunch of chaotic cats that have no idea what’s going on
Here’s a hot take for y’all: the Tribe was actually a really interesting concept. When I first read the series, I assumed there would be four of them just like how there were four Clans (SkyClan wasn’t even a blip on my radar at the time), and the Tribe of Rushing Water was just the RiverClan equivalent or something. I saw them and I was like “wow, that’s cool, does the type of society these wild cats form depend on where they live? Like, do some become a Clan and some become a Tribe? What else is out there? I can’t wait to meet an alternate Clan of sorts!”
But then it wasn’t any of that and it sucked. And then PoT/OotS just made it even more confusing with ancient cats.
I think one of my least favorite things was a super petty gripe I had with Stoneteller- if he hates Clan culture so much, why didn’t he rename Stormfur? Imagine how cool of a Tribe name he could’ve had! “Storm over raging water” or something, I dunno, I came up with several back when this thought first crossed my mind.
So yea, TLDR, I assumed the Tribe was going to be a cool new thing, and it wasn’t. But I stand by my opinion that the Tribe(s) had potential to be so much more.
It is a very interesting concept!! Personally I love the tribe, but it’s not common to see others liking them.
The tribe is
Cultural appropriation so
I honestly think feathertail was soooo underrated. She was brought in with the first "dramatic" scene with silverstreams death just for her not to do anything? Sure she had her dramatic moments of almost being killed by tigerstar but that was only dramatic bc of stone fur! Then she gets this big message from Starclan on how she has to save the forest and then dies!? WHAT!? She was so sweet and their was so much much more that could have happened for her...
What do you mean she didnt do anything in silverstreams death? she didnt even have her eyes open and couldnt even walk or mewl
warriors hot take: smudge got his balls stolen
That's not a hot take, that's canon.
L smudge
Hot take: I honestly think that Fireheart/star was a good main protagonist, and that caused me to have a hard time moving onto Brambleclaw's perspective (Fireheart/star is one of my favorite characters too!)
Scourge is kind of a weird character. If you’re reading TPB and you already have heard of Scourge, you’re probably anticipating this as a big finale, instead he’s just some random rouge that shows up last book. He’s like Yoda, only popular because of his unique nature, with little “screen time”.
I was superrr excited to see the part with the Bloodclan battle because I thought it would be epic, and it was but Scourge kinda just died a few pages in- I would love to see more of Bloodclan too, since we only knew much about Bone and Scourge.
I think what made Jayfeather interesting was that when he was a POV MC, we got to see his thoughts, which showed the reasons as to WHY he was grumpy and reacted the way her did. Now, we don’t see that so all we see is “grumpy old kitty who wants to claw everyone but morally can’t, so he’ll hurt you in other way” but we aren’t seeing what’s going on in his head. When Alderpaw was having difficulties with him while Leafpool was in ShadowClan, Alderpaw snapping at Jayfeather probably reminded Jayfeather of when HE was an apprentice dealing with Leafpool and made him reflect on how he treated his apprentice, which was how he came to the conclusion that Alderpaw was ready to be given his medicine cat name. That’s the kind of thinking Jayfeather has, but we’ll never know because we never saw it like we did when he was a POV MC.
I find in almost many medias, especially video games, Mc's are vastly different in 1st person vs 3rd person
TigerStar’s death was too sudden. He was actually a good villain and he honestly scared me more than scourge. It was so obvious that LionClan could defeat BloodClan honestly and TigerClan freaked me out. Like obviously the main characters weren’t gonna die but what if a loveable side character died?? And in the BloodClan vs. LionClan battle, basically nobody that we were TOO attached to died. (No offense WhiteStorm lovers)
Okay but my hot take is that medicine cat chapters are the best chapters. I am there reading about them trying to find a cure, sorting through herbs, picking herbs, dealing with tough worries acting dramatic over a thorn. When a colored cough breaks out and theres no catmint, it's gonna be an amazing time. The warrior chapters dont make me as happy as the medicine cat ones.
12:05 is so true. Like, the only medicine cats now are ones that have disabilities and were literally forced to take the role against their will.
3:42 skyclan’s destiny isn’t that bad :/ i actually liked it, the characters actually felt like characters instead of nobodies and seeing there journeys was enjoyable. (Keep in mind i skipped sticks chapters because I didn’t care so that made reading it enjoyable)
Ikr
“OKAY BROKENSTAR I DIDN’T KNOW YOU HAD A CZcams ACCOUNT” I was dying when akira just said thqt
I want to know more about the Dark Forest cats like Maggottail, Silverhawk, Rushtooth, Houndleap and the others. Listening to their confessions about what they did during A Light in the Mist made me very curious.
2:33 that is my BIGGEST problem with MAPS that still persists to this day. In any warrior cat map, the artists will design apprentices which are often around 6 months or older which are the SAME. SIZE. AS AN ADULT CAT as little tiny baby kittens. This is most notable when it comes to ANY MAP that has Stonefur protecting Stormpaw and Featherpaw from the wrath of TigerClan.
I don't understand why apprentices are seen as smol kittens. That's just not possible given the actual SIZE of cats when they get 6 moons, and when you actually THINK about WHY kits have to wait until six moons. Not to mention, if you ever read a phrase "it's too crowded in the nursery" IT'S BECAUSE THERE ARE SEVERAL NEARLY FULL GROWN KITS PLAYING AROUND IN A SMALL DEN.
Naw, a 9 month old cat is significantly smaller than a 15 month old cat. But I agree that it's more on the scale of 12 vs 20 years old and not 3 vs 20.
@@ktkc1o7 it's still the general shape and size it will be when it gets to 1 year. Again that's why when they say "the nursery is full" they REALLY mean the nursery is FULL.
@@ktkc1o7 You make a good point although I’m not sure I’d say 12 and 20 cause a cat’s first year of life is equivalent to a human’s first 15 (first two years of a cat’s life is equivalent to a human’s 25, which is around the time people are fully developed)
I think that if Frecklewish and all went to the dark forest Bluestar, all the other cats that mildly broke the warrior code with forbidden romances, leafpool, crow feather, lionblaze, oakheart, Graystripe, silverstream, etc etc, and other cats who mildly broke the code should go as well. All the “bad” they did and stuff could be compared and be almost equal to frecklewish, but they didn’t go to the dark forest, only freckkewish did, because in maple shades eyes FRECKLEWISH was the villain. They were writing it from her perspective, which when they were writing made Frecklewish seem all bad and probably when the Erin’s put her in the darkforest only thought of Mapleshades wrong accusations. Erin’s be like: kill your self trying to save some pretty much already dead kits ! Starclan is coming your way! Erin’s also be like: omg you ugly fox hearted cat you didn’t kill your self to save some babies which would have died anyway? You evil cat! Go to the darkforest. The cats other than Frecklewish only went to the darkforest because they were “good” main characters, friends of “good” main characters etc. they were so easily forgiven. Also, the leader (forgot their name) when Mapleshade was alive, in thunderclan, was DOUBLE AS BAD AS FRECKLEWISH. APPLEDUSK TOO. omg sorry I feel so damn strongly about this.
Then there’s Russetfur. Didn’t she watch Berrypaw lose his tail? She’s living the life in StarClan rn
@@Littlefox1213 fr
Same!
If you think about it, there would have been no way for her to be close to reaching them.
Mapleshade could hardly catch her kits, and when she did she struggled catching the other two and the one she did have was let go. Mapleshade was the closest cat to them, how would frecklewish be able to swim up and catch them? That would be impossible.
And another point, when saving mapleshade, the river clan cats didn't jump into the water to save her, they pulled her up with stick.
And I could make so many other points, in the book it says it was hard to hear in the rain, so for mapleshade to hear the river clan cats she would've had to be extremely close to the edge of riverclan.
Frecklewish in my opinion, only crime was yelling at those kittens, they didn't deserve it, and you wanna make that arguement fine, but since rainflower is in starclan i will argue that frecklewish shouldn't have been condemned to cat hell. Frecklewish at worst is a morally gray cat, Wouldn't argue she a good cat but a cat worthy of being in the dark forest when cats who've done so much worse are in heaven chilling? No. Just no.
@@orchidoxs126 yeah I agree
I personally thing it was a good idea to send her to the DF. I don’t think she deserved it, don’t get me wrong. But that’s exactly why I think it works. Cuz you’re right. They put squirrelflight on trial for something they forced her to do. They let Ashfur into Starclan. I know this probably wasn’t what they’re going with. But I like to think this could be good build up for the whole “Starclan is incredibly flawed and somewhat corrupt” theory that I’ve seen floating around
"OK BROKEN'STAR" really got me💀
Leopardstar was a amazing character because she was basically all those "hot headed righteous characters that cant see what they are doing is wrong, and have a horribly tragic backstory", just if those cats where taken too far, and given a chance to redeem them self.
Mapleshade did NOT deserve to be exlied for her kits. There have been many half-clan kits in the series, such as Silverstream & Graystripe's kits, Oakheart & Bluestar's kits, and Crowfeather & Leafpool's kits. I understand why Silverstream and Bluestar were not punished for their kits because they died when the secret got out, but with Leafpool and Crowfeather, Crowfeather got no punishment, and Leafpool just temporarily lost her role as a medicine cat.
Ivypool didn’t need a mate or kits. It seems as if if your a she-cat, you need a mate. Ivypool was a perfect cat who didn’t need a mate or needed to have kits
But I do think that Fernsong being the one to stay in the nursery most of the time was pretty creative.
I heard a lot of new and interesting opinions today! Helps getting a better view on things and getting out of the popular opinion sort of things which can get pretty suffocating sometimes tbh. Rad video as always!
Tbh they should have made Shadowsight go insane after losing the connection
He kind of did though, he doubted himself a lot of the times
@@airconditionedBreeze yeah but i would love if he turned into next villain but he actually becomes kinda good after evil arc
2:11 YES! YES!! FINALLY!!! I’M NOT THE ONLY ONE WHO KNOWS THIS!!
Swiftpaw and Brightpaw were actually a bit older than Cloudtail, yet Cloudtail was old enough to be a warrior, therefore so were Swiftpaw and Brightpaw. They may have not been 100% fully grown, but they were definitely warrior size.
My hot take is that every once in a while in the really sad and dark arcs, we just need a scene of a normal day in clan life. We never see normal days where nothing happens. I also really liked squirrelflight’s Hope when squirrelflight and leafpool go to starclan for a little bit, because it is a nice refreshing happy break from all the drama. I want to see that more!
Oooh! 3 of mine got there!
swiftpaw, gorsepaw, and yellowfang are personally the saddest deaths for me in the first arc. I have no explanation to offer except that gorsepaw and yellowfang where amazing characters and swiftpaws death was undeserved.
so honored to be early
Same here
I think people are overhating bluestar, I mean Blackstar also disowned STARCLAN? And I don't see anyone hating him for that!
*Hot take: Appledusk was at fault for Mapleshade's evil arc.* Just think about it:
A. He never told Mapleshade that the river would flood, only that she should stay away from RiverClan, the only reason seemingly being the half-clan kits.
B. Appledusk is a two-faced cat. He tells Mapleshade how he loves her and her kits and is so glad he could be with them, and then not even a day later talks about how how he made a mistake and he was not at fault. Then a couple days later he's saying that he loved Mapleshade all along and doesn't want her to end up a villain.
C. He cared nothing about the kits. After they died, he just went on being jolly and letting Reedshine have his new kits.
D. He was dating Reedshine first and decided that he wouldn't tell Mapleshade and just accepted her love for him. Mapleshade knew Reedshine liked Appledusk, but had no idea that Appledusk liked Reedshine back.
Please don't start a debate in the comments :')
the time between the kits seeing appledusk and the kits drowning is a bit of time. not only that, but you can't exactly predict that rivers are going to flood. if the kits were swimming in the river just fine, then clearly there's no signs it's going to flood, and it isn't mentioned what season it is at the time or if it was raining. also - appledusk remarks before he tells mapleshade to keep the kits away from the river that patchkit is worn out from swimming. he's concerned that the kits are going to be swimming in the river one day and then get too worn out to get back on land. not only that! but it's common sense to keep your newborn children away from rivers! appledusk was obviously telling mapleshade that because they were newborns...
(oh also - pretty sure mapleshade isn't BLIND... if a river is flooding you can very clearly see it with your own eyes that it is flooding)
he's not twofaced either! in fact i have no idea where you got that from. his personality and opinions on mapleshade remain very consistent after he found out about the drowned kits - he hated her. he loved her while they were mates, but as most relationships go, he hated her after the breakup. he didn't start hating her for no reason and they didn't break up for no reason. he never said that he loved mapleshade all along and he never said that he didn't want her to be a villain.
appledusk absolutely did care about the kits, it's clearly portrayed he worried for their safety and was thrilled to be a father. and i think you need to remember that the pov of the novella is mapleshade's. she's in a whole different clan to appledusk - we'd never see him worrying about the kits, thinking about them, or grieving for them. reedshine's pregnancy takes place a significant amount of time after the kits drowned, we'd never know if he had a mourning arc, because again it's from mapleshade's perspective
it isn't confirmed which she-cat he was in a relationship with first. reedshine is showed to be friendly to him, but it wasn't fully confirmed that they were mates until AFTER they broke up, when reedshine was pregnant. there's context clues to show romantic interest, sure, but only from reedshine. it's clear she had a crush on him but nothing was showing that appledusk returned the interest during his relationship with mapleshade, except for mapleshade's paranoia telling her that the 'look in appledusk's eyes told her that he saw reedshine as more than a clanmate'
final notes:
im not an appledusk fan or apologist completely. i find him bland and boring, i just hate the demonization that he goes through because he moved on from mapleshade. it was never canonized that he was in a relationship with reedshine while in a relationship with mapleshade. if you guys want to hate a cheater, redirect your hatred to blizzardwing, who was an actual cheater and canonically was in a relationship with featherstorm (raggedstar's mother) while in a relationship with hollyflower (blackstar's mother)
the absolute character assassination you guys put appledusk through is ridiculous when most of the stuff he's accused of was completely out of his control
@@nyra8263 Alright, there's a lot to take in there, but if he's not two-faced, why didn't he accept Mapleshade if he loved her more? Why didn't he ask a single thing about the kits, or even show that much sadness when they were dead? Appledusk didn't even seem that shocked after they died. Also, wasn't it that he told them to leave the river and then right after Ravenwing told Oakstar and Mapleshade got exiled? Going back and rereading, that does seem to be the case. Appledusk just suddenly started hating her because she revealed the secret to all his clanmates. And, they weren't newborns. They were two or three moons old which yes I agree is still young, but they were swimming like fish and weren't helpless. The only thing would to be improving their stamina.
@@thatdangartistgrrl 1. He didn't accept her because she was the reason their kids died. It's possible he still loves her, but a leading cause for breakups is child death. Think of Rainflower and Shellheart; though Shellheart loved Rainflower, she was putting Crookedstar through hell, and that's what caused their breakup. The same can be easily applied for Appledusk and Mapleshade.
2. The Erins have showed a few times that they can write grief well. Leafpool and Jayfeather, Brightflower and her kits, Cinderheart and Hollyleaf, I could go on. The thing about grief is that it's different for everyone. Not everyone is sad when they hear the news; in fact a large group of people are angry, like Appledusk.
3. Yes, I see now that it was a little bit in-between. I must've got that wrong.
4. I exaggerated the kits' deaths to make my point more agreeable, I didn't mean it seriously. Even then, as Appledusk pointed out, they weren't in the river for long and Patchkit was already exhausted. They weren't good swimmers, because they were kits. They had 0 training. In fact, in RiverClan, cats learn to swim at apprentice age, and there's been incident time and time again of RiverClan kits falling in rivers and not being able to swim out. If full-blood RiverClan kits can't swim very well, then Appledusk is right for thinking that the kits would be in danger near the river, especially since Patchkit was exhausted after swimming for at most 1 minute.
@@nyra8263 Alright let's just stop i don't want an entire debate in the comments XD (Also wasn't Mapleshade carrying Patchkit when they crossed?)
@@thatdangartistgrrl Crossed the river when they drowned? I'm unsure, but I don't see how it still matters. She can still visibly see that the river is flooding and neither she nor her kits knew how to swim.
Here's a take of mine: I liked all of the books where the cats traveled somewhere else. It was interesting seeing them adapt to new areas and seeing how cats outside of the clans lived.
THOSE BOOKS WERE TERRIBLY (Aside from SkyClans destiny, also no offense)
@@Ashcloud3228 oh yeah they totally were. I only said that to rile people up.
I had a theory and hot take of why Ashfur was worse then Mapleshade (but it was made before the Broken code serries existed so please keep that in mind 😅):
[WARNING: While I feel like it's already explanitory that there will be spoilers to Mapleshade's Vengence, The New Prophecy serries, and Power of Three serries I just wanted to give a warning just in case. So if you havent read those books yet please dont continue to read]
Ashfur is FAR worse then Mapleshade, so I'm going to explain why. In Mapleshade's past she was put through so much stress and trauma happening on the same day that she got temporary insanity and schizophrenic halucinations. She truly believed and thought that her kits couldn't rest until she avenged them. Mapleshade loved her kits with all her heart, they were her world and ment everything to her. In the story she shows them nothing but love, and so when they drowned she felt like she had abandoned and betrayed them. Some people often forget that when the kits were drowning Mapleshade was so desperate to save them that she didnt care if she drowned along with them or died saving them.
To show an example think of if there was a human mother (at the age of 19 or 20) who had never raised a baby before so this was her first time doing so leading her to be rather inexperienced and naive. On top of that she had to raise her baby on her own which made it even more difficult. So said mother had gotten a new car seat and thought that she tightened the seatbelt properly before starting to drive, but what she didnt know was that it actaully was on improperly accidentally putting her baby in danger. As she is driving safely another semi-truck had gone off the road and rammed into her car (so it was completely out of her control). The mom survived, but her baby died in the accident. In that situation you wouldn't blame the mother and say that she didn't care enough, you'd support her and try to tell her that she didnt mean for this to happen. Though a lot of people still blame Mapleshade despite the fact that her kits dying were exactly the same type of situation.
Mapleshade was the type of mon who would do anything for her kids, so seeing them trapped in a purgatory state desperately asking her to avenge her over and over finally broke her. When she killed the three cats she wasnt in control or free will/sanity when she did so. Ashfur on the other hand knew EXACTLY what he was doing, he was in control of his actions and knew how cruel and sadistic his actions were, but he didnt care. Ashfur has the quote in quote "nice guy" problem where he assumed that Squirrelflight owed him and had to be his mate since he was nice to her. Not caring about how she felt and only thinking of himself, but yet he claimed to be the victim in all of it... Now he might've not suceded in killing three cats unlike Mapleshade, but he was fully in control while he did so.
[WARNING: There will be spoilers of the Harry Potter series so if you havent read those books dont read the rest of this paragraph]
Another good example of this type of argument is that Umbrige is seriously far worse then Voldermort. Voldermort being born by his father who was under a love spell cannot feel love or kindnesd, he LITERALLY is unable to do so. On the other hand Mrs. Umbrige does know what she is doing and can feel love and kindness, yet she chooses to hurt others anyways.
I'd also like to add that Ashfur not only kept his hatred for Squirrelflight over the years but acted on it multiple times while everything that happened to Mapleshade was very sudden.
While rejection sucks, the fact that he balled it up for awhile, abused her adopted son (Lionblaze) and took advantage of his mentor status over him as a trusted adult warrior, and even attempted to kill her children to make her feel awful isn't even near justified. (TBC adds more to this as well, he continued to ball up his hatred rather than resolve it and it lead to many people dying because he couldn't get over the fact that Squirrelflight didn't love him like that.) Honestly Hollyleaf killing him may have been the best thing to happen to him. He may have gone on to do worse if he was to keep living since TBC proves that he didn't learn from the fire scene.
Now onto Mapleshade. While I don't condone her actions in the murders of Ravenwing, Frecklewish, and Appledusk, there is a lot going on with her mentally with how she operated during her time alive. As you've mentioned, everything traumatic happened within a span of a couple of days so the shock was guaranteed to stick around until the time of her death. Shock and grief can do a lot to a person, so it's very easy to see why she committed the heinous crimes she did.
That's why I'll always argue that Ashfur was worse than Mapleshade while they were both alive. 1st degree murder is always considered worst than 2nd degree murder in a mass majority of cases. (The only thing arguable about the two is the overall damage caused to other people, which Mapleshade is the queen of causing extreme harm to others lol)
THIS!! THIS!!!!
Yes! Mapleshade is my favourite character
Okay but-
Yes.
This might be one of the hottest takes, but as someone who recently re-read the first arc, I'm gonna say it:
Scourge isn't a good villain. His motives behind what he does are childish, and his potential was wasted so hard because he only existed for a _portion_ of ONE book.
The fact that one encounter with Tigerstar that didn't even leave him with major injury caused him to hold resentment towards the guy (and possibly the entire clans) and slaughter him so brutally is pathetic, really.
Tigerstar was a villain that got built on and truly felt sinister and cunning, and he was prepared to become Firestar's _true_ enemy, only to be shamefully killed off by a tiny cat over a grudge from YEARS prior.
And then, despite showing how absolutely "powerful" and terrifying Scourge is, they decide to kill him off in the very same book, instead of letting _him_ grow into a better villain who could have been the second arc's major threat. Like seriously, that would have been SO cool!
Plus, they could have leaned into Firestar learning about Scourge being related to him in some way (if they really wanted to). While it's neat that they are half brothers, the information is just as worthless as knowing Darkstripe and Graystripe are half brothers because the series DOESNT ACKNOWLEDGE THESE THINGS.
Imagine how much more emotional, mental impact there could be if the storylines made it clear that some of these characters are related. It makes the deaths and drama more complex when you know these are siblings who are forced to fight and kill each other y'know?
YAY! New video is out! It’s always a good thing when Akira posts. Love ur vids 0:51: is that Naruto I see?
Yooo early!
Edit: There were honestly only a few things I could agree with in this, though it was interesting to see all these opinions! A bit disappointed one wasn’t shown, though I’m sure quite a few were left out.
Hot take- I dislike the tribe of rushing water, their leader was awful and narrow mined and he exiled brook and storm fur for something that wasn’t their fault and he almost gave up on his clan by not training another stone teller.
Yoo tysm for featuring me! And actually I liked his chapters👺/j
I love this series.
I found Silverstream's death to be VERY tragic, but not sad.
I cried more over Badgerfang dying than Silverstream. In fact, Silverstream didn't make me cry at all. But it was tragic. Very tragic.
What do you all think of the new book?
Probably spoilers in the replies.
Edit: Shadow CZcams videos aren't out yet so I'm bored waiting for content (I read the whole thing). I wanna hear what other people think about it
What latest book
Sky or the shadow preview I think
@@krdt1111 oh right thank you the only point I remember from that book is spoilers below
Shadowclan raiding riverclan and rowankit dying
Is it riverstar’s homes or sky or shadow?
@@Limecat3322 riverstars home isn't out yet I think it's shadow
Great vid as always
Thanks Akira for reacting to my comment!
Sorry I know it wasn't actually a hot take I just had to write it because it was just about one day after I've finished A Light in the Mist and I was pretty frustrated about the last book of Broken Code.
Anyway those comments are really cool. I agree with many of them. Thanks for making this video.
I 100% blame Mapleshade for the death of her kits, her stupid choices killed them. But Miss Dako is right. Bluestar is also a terrible mother. Mosskit died because she gave up her kits to be a leader. She was too paranoid about Thistleclaw and it was confirmed never going to happen. Both cats took their young children out into dangerous areas (rapid river, snowstorm) and Bluestar's kits were way younger than Mapleshade's. I think the reason people don't fiercely condemn Bluestar as much is just because Bluestar doesn't blame everyone else for Mosskit dying and her giving up Mistykit and Stonekit. Mapleshade is deluded into thinking she did nothing wrong. But yeah Bluestar is a terrible mother.
Hot take: Firestar is the best cat in all the series, The first arc is the best one, And Firestar's quest is my fav warriors book ever:)
Daaaannnnggggg hot
Not the best but very close
Spotted leaf is a good character. The drama about her being Firestar’s second love and not being able to move on is something that the fandom is just wasting their breath on. Even if this scenario is so bad then why don’t we all hate Feathertail?
Seoul sly though yeah Spottedleaf was a little weird in the dreams but also Firestar was seriously also holding on and when he was forepaw if I remember correctly I don’t think she really talked to him when he was alive at least but in general I think like one or two prophesys
THANK YOU I LOVE HER
I think Frecklewish didnt deserved to die. Honestly it should've been Oakstar. Frecklewish had nothing to do with the kits deaths. And if you are going to say: she watched the kits drown. Don't. She saw Riverclan warriors and thought the kits would be okay. Oakstar was the one who EXILED freaking KITS!!! 😢 Also im not entirely sure mappleshade and appledusk would be that big of deal. Yes he did kill Birchface but im pretty sure that was after Mapleshade conceived the kits. Meaning Mapleshade was preggo when Birchface was killed and no one would have known that Appledusk would kill him. It was in the heat of things.
Taking everything into context, Oakstar banishing Mapleshade and her extremely young children during a bad storm and expecting them to survive is beyond horrific and I'm surprised that Frecklewish got the same treatment as other characters like Tigerstar, Mapleshade, Hawkfrost and Brokenstar when all she did was exist within the proximity of dying kits either not aware (which is possible) or helplessly witnessing knowing she has trauma with that exact river, no ability to swim, and that the conditions were too dangerous for her to effectively intervene.
I'm sorry, but while it is sad that three children drowned in that river during the flood, it's more tragically sad if three children and one adult attempting to help the children drown. It's not only justified that she didn't kill herself for no reason but also unreasonable for Starclan for sending her to the Dark Forest on those grounds.
I agree with you but she DID have a reason for the kits death ;
When Mapleshade was exiled and went to the River, Frecklewish saw her kits drown and die and Frecklewish did not save them (on purpose).
But what's not normal is that Mapleshade killed Frecklewish WITHOUT KNOWING that Frecklewish did not save the kits on purpose.
Mapleshade DID NOT SEE Frecklewish spying on her and seeing the kits drown without saving them.
So I guess it was very unfair but fair
@@cherrerry okay but think about it: thunderclan cats don't know how to swim. Riverclan cats are known for swimming. So even if it was on purpose there was no reason for Frecklewish to go in the water. She didn't want to end up like her brother and flowerpaw
@@Lu13s i guess that's fair
@@Lu13s
I don’t like the argument that thunderclan cats can’t swim because they absolutely can. Hell Jayfeather proved they can and he was BLIND and almost saved Flametail
Same with Squirrelflight and Leafpool as apprentices
The argument of Frecklewish not knowing (which is actually book accurate because she didn’t) makes more sense
12:22
Medicine cats then:
*I am smart, determined, and work hard to keep the clan cats healthy. I have trained hard and long to get where I am now and work my tail off for the sake of the whole clan*
Medicine cats now:
*hehe starclan magic go brrr*
Personally, I think that the hold Spottedleaf and Thistleclaw grooming stuff isn't bad at all and it something that should be shown in kids' books more often but the way it is shown and written is the bigger issue and with it continuing with Spottedleaf becoming a groomer herself with Firestar shows how the cycle can be passed on but then again, I think her feelings for Fireheart are a retcon by the Erin's but I would love to see real world problems pop up in the books more often but with Erin's who can handle the topic instead of just smashing the idea on paper and not doing anything with it
Except, Spottedleaf never groomed Firestar. It was portrayed as a one-sided crush throughout the first series. She even seemed to ship him and Sandstorm, especially in Firestar's Quest. Although at that point it seems the Erins had decided to make her crush on him as well, even though she's dead. I agree that her feelings always felt like a retcon.
@@ktkc1o7 I think that the writers kinda aimed it Spottedleaf having feelings for him the moment that he joined the clan but yeah the feelings are a major retcon in the books
She never groomed him, it was one-sided for a long while, and her age was later retconned. In the context of the first series, all we could assume was that she was young, probably not much older than Firepaw if at all, because that's how the books described her. Just young. I know you already said that her feelings were also probably a retcon, but I think it's important to mention that her being significantly older than Firepaw was a retcon, as well.
Amazing job Akira!
Even if my take wasn't added, it was a very good video. Good job Akira and Warrior Cats Fandom!
Just before we start the video, I checked the date just in case. Good one!
My opinion is that Star Clan has some Courption in it for allowing cat's like OakStar,AppleDusk,AshFur and OneStar in.
appledusk is literally just a dude. the others are some of the worst cats in the series (onestar a little less horrendous but still horrendous) and appledusk is just a guy. he MAYBE cheated on mapleshade or reedshine literally nobody knows and its never confirmed in-book that he did cheat and yall are lumping him in with the dude that exiled his newborn children into the cold forest while the river is flooding
@@nyra8263 that and the fact apple-dusk was trying to distance himself from maple because she was getting possessive of him and dove to take a blow for his then cat wife reed-shine
@@strangechimera9538 exactly. people say he never cared for reedshine he literally died for her
I am a 'boring' book supporter personally. Show me cats just being normal ass warriors/MCs, it's awesome in my opinion, because I would 100% prefer to be a boring warrior cat than a person and it's nice to see a life I'd rather live
Good to see my take in this! :D
we need a part two pls 😭
"Ok BROKENSTAR, didn't know you had a CZcams account."
I definitely agree with how the books should've stuck with the single protagonist
My hot take since i missed the poll: firestar should have picked Brightheart as his deputy, not brambleclaw. He had a personal connection to her as she got hurt during the crazy bluestar era and tigerstars schemes, his nephew is ger mate. Shes a strong she-cat with actual personality and an established story. Imagine a brightheart deputy. How jayfeathers arc might have been different if a disabled cat had been in a position of say. Brightstar. If i could choose anyone to have been a deputy and future leader. It would have been her
yesss bramblestar is stinky, brightstar should’ve existed!!!
I WOULD LIVE FOR BRIGHTSTAR YES
My secondary hot but is it really take:
Most of the antagonists would have worked better as fusions. Darktail and Sol should have been the same character. Scourge and hawkfrost too.
In fact, a lot of the plots and characters would be more dynamic if they were fused. Like- what if scourge won and the journey to the lakes was a refugee crisis? Or what if Darktail/Sol had used his time as a kittypet to give him knowledge clan cats wouldn't have (like how the eclipse works) and that was his way into the confidence of shadow clan? We could have had a really good counterpoint to the idea that kitty pets are inherently weak if they had let Darktail childhood give him an arsenal of info to weaponize. For example- imagine if he had figured out pesticides?
I don't think we have a Medicine Cat villan. I think that would be interesting
I really like Lionblaze, he left a big impact on me and I don't think he's at all forgettable!
Me too. Hell, I'll go further: Lionblaze is on the whole my second favourite PoV in the PoT-Omen saga (number 1 is Ivypool).
Jayfeather definitely have some great moments too, but personally I can think of way more Lionblaze scenes that stuck with me.
@@waveeyes He was my favourite PoT character.
I see your side of the story but I strongly disagree. Try reading his chapters without getting bored
I also like Lionblaze. I would say I was the most invested in his character while reading tPoT even though they didn't conclude things the best way imo. I really found his issues interesting. In OotS as well. I feel like the fandom sees him as a totally different character than I see him as.
@@ghostcaty Yea I feel the same. I loved reading all of Lionblaze's mental struggles. He may be near unbeatable in physical combad and never risk any bodily harm. But he's still as voulnerable as anyone else mentally.
Hell, even beyond that I've said many times that Lion-Jay is my favourite sibling dynamic in the series. And that wouldn't be possible if not both Lionblaze and Jayfeather contributed to it. They may argue and get on each others nerves every now and then but they still clearly love each other.
Mapleshade, knowing full well that half-Clan kits were against the Warrior Code, Chose to be open about her relationship and the kits’ father as far as I remember. That was reckless. She also tried to cross the river on her own. Bluestar, while I still don’t condone her actions entirely, at least hid their parents and made arrangements beforehand for her kits to be safe.
I'm glad someone mentioned that there are no windclan protagonists I felt that everyone was always saying that riverclan should get a protagonist and forgetting about windclan also we need less shadowclan protagonists and thunderclan obviously
Hi Akira, is there any way you can cover the new Copyright laws due to what happened with Into the Wild by Little Dragon Studios. I've heard this basically states no one is allowed to make a fan series of warriors anymore Based off the books. I'm curious if you could do research into this and make a video out of it if it wouldn't hurt the audience too much
I have two takes.
1. I don't like the super editions and novella's. They end up being mostly insignificant to the main plot, and just become problematic, like Spottedleafs Heart. The only use is extra reading when your caught up or can't find the next book in the main arcs.
2. As much as I love the series, it needs to end soon. Everything is repetitive at this point. Cross-clan relationships, cat teens feeling unwelcome and hated, drama between the leaders over the stupidest things, and drama with Bramblestar. (Can't we just kill him and move on with our lives?) I feel like everything from the first 3-4 arcs is being reused. The only original idea that I can remember is the whole ghost, Ashfur, dark forest thing. And that ended up incredibly inconsistent. I think the writers need to either get new ideas, or END THE SERIES.
Crookedstar's promise has grown to be one of my favorites if not my number 1 favorite book in warrior cats, so I could not disagree more lol.
@@legrandliseurtri7495 welp, it's a hot take for a reason
A year late but: The first arc names weren't that good! Like, I guess you could say that they were more realistic, but this is a series of magic cats with medicine. Realism has never been important. Now we have such cuter names like Bristlefrost, Myrtlebloom, Sunbeam, and people don't like them? At one point in time, we had a Longtail, Cloudtail, Dappletail, Sorreltail, and Speckletail. The first arc names were SO boring but they're considered the best? Best first arc names were Morningflower, Silverstream and Swiftpaw because they sounded nice. Not because it was realistic to have twenty 'furs' and 'tails'.
On take 15, I was drawn to mothwing because of her stance on star clan like akira said. I only figured out about the moth pool ship like months after
Most people say that Swiftpaw had one of the 'bravest' deaths in warrior cats, fighting the dogs. But may I remind everyone, Swiftpaw was upset that he had lost his chance to be a warrior- so he decided to run off into the shadows, not exactly knowing what was there, and tried to fight the dogs. Also, not saying most warriors could survive, but if Swiftpaw was truly ready to be a warrior, he would have had better training or knowledge- meaning he should be stronger, or smart enough to not run into danger. According to the Warriors wiki, Swiftpaw was about 20 moons, while Bluestar's sister, Snowfur, was a warrior for a while, had a kit, and died ( sadly :( ) before Swiftpaw died. The wiki says she was only about 18 moons old. How was Swiftpaw brave, or 'deserved' his warrior name, if he wouldn't listen, wasn't patient enough, and didn't care how dangerous it was for him to do what he did? HE WASN'T READY, or even neccisarily brave if he put himself and his clanmate Brightpaw in a lot of danger. (Sorry for any bad spelling!)
Wait...if Bluestar not being in control of the dogs means that she wasn't responsible for Swiftpaw dying, then wouldn't the same logic apply to Mosskit's death?
Swiftpaw went off to fight the dogs on his own accord so it’s still his own fault for dying imo.
@@mybrotherdied227
Bluestar still indirectly (or directly) caused it
He only went to make bluestar give him his warrior name
Critique of the fandom
A lot of rewrites or AUs revolving around ships and stuff that I see are super forced.
They feel ingenuine and really do nothing towards rep.
You wanna know why?
We don’t have that many healthy friendship dynamics in warriors. We don’t see characters with strong platonic connections. Taking the ones we have and making them romantic is stupid. It is just as important to show healthy friendships as it is to show healthy romantic relationships.
Warriors does neither of those things well. But it has more romance than friendships, tends to not just.. forget about relationships like it does to friendships.
For god’s sake, let the characters have friends…
And don’t erase characters with queer implications? Mousefur is implied to be canonically asexual and aromantic. I’ve seen people take that away and say “well in my opinion, actually she dated another she-cat!” That’s erasure. I don’t care if it’s lesbian rep, or mspec rep or whatever.
Aroace rep is so hard to find. At least let us have that? Please warriors fandom. Not everything needs to be gay. There are other identities.
Note: i’m not against queer rep. BUT if you’re going to have a headcanon like that and be so serious about it, at least give it a base. If there’s no chemistry, it’s still a bad ship. Even modern canon would butcher rep if they tried considering how terribly they write straight characters. I’m all for queer rep actually, but it’s not good rep if it’s forced. I’m pansexual if it matters, don’t take this the wrong way.
My favorite books are always the traveling books. And not just fun ones like Hawkwings journey. I liked the book per arc they went to visit the tribe.
Bramblestar has PTSD, i don’t think that makes him a bad leader for stepping down. However i think he will end be regaining his leader role near the end. Now that he’s admitted to the problem, he can work with medicine cats to recover.
Firestar should be named the master of dying. He died once every 10.6̅ moons!
5:24 I liked mosskit first but Bluestar did not want her to die I’m Prity sure
Willowpelt and brightheart are the best side characters.
Brightheart we all know why
But Willowpelt is WAY too underrated, to refresh your memories, she was in the first arc, and she was Whitestorms mate. She even raised Graykit because he didn’t have a mother! How kind :)
I know it’s a pretty hot take, but Willowpelt was so fun to read about!
She didn't raised graykit bc he didn't had a mother,she was his mother.(his dad is patchpelt)
@@oko5771that was retconned. Those two cats are related lol
Ngl I almost guarantee that Bluestar would be called selfish for NOT taking her kits to Riverclan.
She was told that Thunderclan would be destroyed if Thistleclaw became deputy and Sunstar literally told he he was making Thistleclaw deputy because she had kits to look after.
Bluestar made the right decision.
If she didn’t bring them to Riverclan the fandom would likely call her selfish because she didn’t save Thunderclan, and just cared about her kits.
3:08 this I agree on it gets to confusing sometimes 13:17 them killing off bristlefrost was so dumb
Yeah
YES
The people who said: "Bluestar should go to the dark forest" are the people that hadn't even read the wiki page on her 💀
I feel like Mapleshade barely got any book time, Erin basically said 90 pages is enough to develop a whole ass storyline and then basically throw it away. I think she should have gotten a bigger book, like maybe at least 200 pages. I stared at the next page and yelled "THATS IT?" after I finished, give my girly some more time!
When you said, 'Silverstream's death was no where near Cinderpelt's or Briarlight's death', I took that to heart. When I read Cinderpelt's death, I was crying and my mom came to check in on what was wrong because I was reading at 1 in the morning. hee hee night owl :)
Jayfeather is best boi! and Mapleshade deserves better.
5:44 I will correct you on this: They've said her _actions_ led to it, so she _caused_ it indirectly instead of directly.
Still, it’s not like she refused to make him a warrior with the intention or knowledge that he’d be driven to go fight a dog.
@@rawr1131 sure but even so, she seemingly has no reason why not to make him a warrior especially considering he was 20 moons when he died from the dogs
I did not expect my comment to be here. 8:21 (I’m sunny) thanks for including it! Also fellow Sol disliker, thank you Frostybluestar if you are reading this
bluestar’s prophecy is one of, if not the best SE 😶