Narcissist as Grieving Infant: It Affects YOU
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- čas přidán 3. 11. 2021
- Narcissists are 2 year old infants who are trapped in a post-traumatic condition characterized by a perpetual prolonged complicated grief coupled with depression.
Already in 1942 Hervey Cleckley hypothesized that narcissists and psychopaths may be actually emotionally hypersensitive and inordinately intelligent. Their disorders are defensive attempts to wall off emotions that were so profound that they threatened to overwhelm and dysregulate them. Theirs is a post-traumatic state that can best be described as complicated grief or prolonged grief reaction.
A later scholar, J. S. Grothstein suggested in 1984 that Borderline Personality Disorder was the outcome of a failed effort by the child to deploy pathological narcissism to avert and forestall ominous emotional reactions to extreme abuse.
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The only way I was able to have peace was to hold in my mind the small child who didnt get to develop and live. Once I used my empathy to imagine being so young and helpless and abused, I cried for almost the entire day and all of my anger for my abusers dissolved. The irony that strikes me is it took me to develop more robust empathy I've ever had. You use the tool that narcissistic people don't have in order to forgive them and heal yourself.
That is profound. Thank you for sharing. Comments like this help me in my own process.
Couldn't have said it better!🖤🖤🖤
I feel I should talk to my ex Bf, (he's a classic narcissist also an often kind, funny, generous person) but I feel afraid to talk with him
We saw each other per a mutual friend/business situation yesterday and neither of us could even say hi. I left him months ago after he told me (being honest) that he had other women he called GF in his life) but that it wasn't sexual. Well that is easy to believe since he's not really capable of sex. He tried 2x to come back into our living arrangement which was probably more of a benefit for me than him but I made it a clear no.
I don't know why we cannot speak to each other. Life would feel much better if we could. I am afraid if I open dialog with him he will just get annoyed or worse. He's very bluntly honest about some things. But he's lied about the essence of who he is. (not a military hero in real life) I know he has likely devalued me and perhaps that is why he doesn't speak to me. Although he keeps a photo of him and me prominent (first thing a person sees) on his sites. I am actually here for him but on the other hand don't want to be a GF just a friend. When he's not arrogant and think that he knows everything he can be the nicest person.
@@alayla3281 Keep away, protect yourself! Pray. ❤️🙏❤️
Wow also done this it helps 👏
Why can’t they allow themselves to be vulnerable enough to admit that this is how they feel, and allow you to support them? Instead, they deny their feelings and lash out at you with cruel and insidious abuse.
Perhaps they are ashamed that they are still missing the parent' love and push helpers away so as not to seem inferior in some way?
@clairebrown8861 I agree. They feel too inferior and struggle with it all the time.
A narcisstic mother will not allow a child's separation. However, I have done my work and as a sensitive I am learning to seperate and to set boundaries. My mother is an angry abusive toddler. I have her elderly self in my home because I am good and I forgot how how diabolical she is. Emeshment makes it profoundly difficult to separate from her. I am hoping to "outlast the bastard" as General Patton would say.
Mine would not let me express myself because I was outside of her 'normality' (control?) so I rebelled and went the other way. Had she let me I would have grown out of it.
....so I remember when I was in diapers, before crawling, and I would cry for my mama and she would not come. I remember the profound depression I felt. My mother's mother was always available and I stayed with her mostly. I developed catastrophic nose bleeds and my poor grandmom couldn't cope. The ambulance took me to hospital and when my mom came in she was angry because my grandmother couldn't watch my baby brother while mom came to see me. I was the recipient of her anger and decided to die. I had a near death experience and was told to go back. As a result I became shy and very damaged.
Oh my gosh, I'm so sorry. How painful to remember that and that far back.
Everyone goes through tough times even as a child. Now is that an excuse for me to abuse others? Not at all. After all that I have gone through, I would never for a minute empathize with a narc. I had a difficult childhood too. But I made a conscious decision to be kind and nice to people. Imagine being unconditionally compassionate, trying to do everything in your power to be nice and friendly to a person who betrays, back stabs, lies, cheats and manipulates you. Tbh the trauma bond is the real bitch.
I overcame this damage thanks to my loving grandparents and as an adult doing my hard work have risen above. No spouse, no children but a level of peace in my own space. I would rather be alone than with most people.
Your personality is charming. Since watching you teach us, I’ve learned how to conduct myself as a better human being as opposed to following the “eye for an eye” hate culture. Thank you.
I'm pretty sure a lot of narcissistic abuse survivors suffer from complicated grief.
I think this too....narc behaviour needs to be classed as a crime 👿
*raises her hand ✋🏼
I do. And I agree.
What you have described is exactly what happened to my ex. I was drawn to him because I hated the way his parents used him for attention then humiliated and cut him down simultaneously. He stood up against then I’m his late teens and young adulthood. Then fell victim to their manipulation and shaming. He would, eventually, spend his entire life defending their abusive behavior toward him, then Me (his lover, wife and ex from age 13 to 53) and even our children. He would literally panic, get angry or defensive at the idea they are not treating him or his family well. Once we were financially stable, they enabled his affair with a very young woman and it acted as a bonding between them. They, after all, we’re adulterers. They didn’t like the girl and called her vile names, but did go on a cruise with them during our marriage when she assisted with a discount. It’s still a sad state, but while I loved him dearly, I should never have tried to SAVE him. Lesson learned.
Thanks for sharing your experience. My dad and sister are both narcissist who manipulated me all along. I think it's time for me to cut them off. Since these guys are not going to change, what alternative do we have. What do you say??
So true, I was abused as a child and think all of my serious relationships have been with toxic narcissist
guessing I'm in a fragile state of mind today, this made me cry...(like a baby) & it was delivered with what *seemed like* genuine compassion. thanks for that
The ex who strangulated me near death has a 30 year criminal history for domestic violence. He was horribly abusive by his mother as a child. I believe this is why he is a psychopath. He has this type of grief. And now I have this type of grief because of how he had abused me. The cycle continues.
You will break the cycle🙏🏻...
I’m so sorry to hear that and I’m glad you’re better. I was just watching 22yrs Gabby Petito case whom is dead now and was in a toxic relationship. I hope you report it to the police to protect other potential women to happen this to them. I’m sending you big hugs❤️
@@theannaone5320 Yes. There is a court case against Aric Collins for the strangulation charge. But, unfortunately the judge in Michigan took Aric off this GPS tether on May 2020. Like how the Brian Laundrys parent helped their son to escape. So Aric Collins pastor/uncle is hiding him in Hoffman Estates,Illinois. Aric Collins is facing 10 year to a life sentence if found guilty. Please pray that justice is served!
I am thrilled you are back Dr. Vaknin! I was missing your insights. Hoping you are well! Thank you for all your contributions.
The sadness of rejection from birth will eat at a soul. The sadness of being rejected is too much to handle. So it makes sense. Unless you have a healthy other step in at a critical point. Like a loving grandmother from 1-5. Life changing results.
Yes this will be considered a intervener
Thank you for the video,
It makes a lot of sense because the grieving post the relationship can be very difficult and much longer.
It reminds me of this quote:
"One of the hardest things you will ever do is grieve the loss of someone who is still alive"
undeniably the best teacher ever. so glad you are back.
One of the best lines in the whole vlog, "Academics write in an obscure language style because it makes them feel self-important" said with a tone and a sip of coffee/tea ROTFL!! you're such a hoot Sam :)
Narcissists can be charming & charismatic, even sweet as they manipulate! Sam shows us & speaks to all sides... ❤️🙏❤️
The charm of a narcissist is truly mesmerising
The narcissist has the best wit on earth!
Concerning the line about Academics, “ROTFL! You’re such a hoot Sam”…….Agreed, Lisa!
I remember using a thesaurus to write papers in school. It used to make me so sad because I knew I could say what I needed to say in a more accessible and clear way, but I knew I would get a better grade if I made it sound more "educated."
I can’t believe that I am going through this!!!! 🤦🏾♀️
Yay Sam Vaknin returns!
Thank you for some clarification. I have put my love in a safe place, my animals. After losing so many, and then especially after losing a couple of pets that I considered soulmates, I find myself pulling away from my animals, out of fear of the pain of losing them.
I am also aware that for a long while, my animals are the only reason that I'm still here. No, in no way am I or have I been suicidal, but I just didn't care to be here anymore. Recently, I didn't want to take on more animals, but lately I rescued a few, and with a smile, I realized that now I have to stay here about another 20 years.
I especially feel deep loss over 3 pets (cats), one dog from 1979. I feel the pain over the loss of my dog as if he died yesterday.
I definitely didn't have a narcissist mother, but she was depressed much of her life, and a divorced, hard working mother of 3 children. She was a kind mother. Later however, I believe that she saw me as having her weaknesses, her softness, and probably felt guilt and sh began to dislike seeing herself in me. I'm not narcissist, and remember thinking that i was going to have a life like hers. I have always been very empathic, and became the mother figure for my younger brother and sister.
For me it was relationship I ended for extremely complicated reasons though mostly because I still hadn't learned at 30 that "boring" doesn't mean dysfunctional in a good relationship. Then I fell for a narcissist worse than my mother ever was, which was saying a great deal. And several years later, after going through an emotional break and serious cancer treatments, my beloved dog died. I'd never grieved for anyone as hard and profoundly as for her, my metaphor for my physical manifestation of the pain as a great white shark having taken a bite out of my torso. It took a few years to really get through it as much as I ever will, and 11 years later I still have lucid dreams in which I know she's actually dead but I prefer to enjoy her company over waking up or moving to another dream. There's guilt involved, too, because I think I may have contributed to or even indirectly caused her premature death (at 12, but should have had a couple or more good years in her). I was devastated and it definitely took its toll on me. Even when I tried to move on I kept getting injured having no understanding just how much the intensive chemo and sternotomy (for the tumor resection) had caused. So I had way way too much time to myself to ruminate and I became more reclusive, only to take it even further, though not overly mourneful any longer, when COVID forced us to stay home even more than I already did. I'm as recovered as I'm gonna be, but I can't adopt another dog unless I move out of my friends' house, which would involve enormous life changes. TY for this video and now I move back to the other, "Mourning Yourself After Narcissist Abuse." I feel like I'm approaching the point I can step into a new era that these narcissists no longer live and party rent free in my skull and heart. I have memoirs or a full on biography to write and I'm still hung up, paralyzed, by my difficulty moving past the narcissist damage of an exboyfriend and mother. It'll get better though. It's a work in progress. Bummer I'm now middle aged and still working on it, though.
Thank you Sam for the helpful explanation! I know this deep prolonged sadness and grief you speak of as a neglected child. I never felt safe. I am learning to care for myself.
I don’t even know how to
@@angeliquemarquis personal care basics is the first step x
My Narc "partner" penetrate the same thing (that was done to him in childhood) to me (in my adoult age). I was perfect target. He toxicated me for 33 yrs. Now, my mind is doing his job. I am on my Healing Path. Thank you Sam for all your contributions.
😂😂😂 the intros are hilarious. I’m not even 3 mins in. 😂😂 awesome 👏🏼 brilliant
Yes, Always a few hilarious moments. And thank goodness. These topics are so hard, humor is honestly the best coping mechanism I've come across.
Great insights to get through the root cause of narcissism.
Knowing what we know now… There needs to be understanding and helping those who are truly narcissistic tendencies so they can heal inside out instead of shaming them. I’ve seen so much suffering from those who are unaware and afraid to look within their narcissistic behaviour. Some are just not willing to take responsibility and projects their pain unto others.
We were pure love before all these dis-orders due to abuse, maltreatment, and all things that caused the child to cope in a maladaptive adult.
Acknowledgement and commitment to healing the wounds is necessary in order for them to get back to the road of a healthy life again.
Thank you, Dr. for sharing a deeper look beyond the façade of narcissism.
We can’t continue blaming the symptoms without getting to the root cause of the problem.
This is what we see collectively now and thank God people are waking up.
Return to love and we can get back to creating healthy attachments by healing unresolved trauma that we see amongst adults. ❤️
Return to Love and attempt to better yourself
Excellent ....Professor Vaknin!
I can understand grief on many levels. I found my 32 year old son passed away in his bedroom.
It was such a shock to my system of what I was looking at I left my body.
Through therapy I learned it was called "Dissociation with Shock."
I have been in therapy for 3 years now.
I was treated for PTSD with EMDR, 3 antidepressants, 2 anxiety medications also hospitalized several times.
I still get triggered by a song, a smell etc.
Anyway the excellent way you explain this I can truly see how the sever trauma could cause the child to not recover becoming Narcissist and or Borderline.
Glad you are back you have been truly missed ♡
I really feel for you. A tragedy no Mother wants. So sorry for your loss and I hope someday a smile will form on your lips before a tear forms in your eyes. Sending healing prayers to you.🙏🦋🙏🦋🙏🦋
I’m deeply sorry for what you have gone through. God bless you and your family.
Sorry for your loss
Unbelievable shock for you! I’m so so sorry you had to go through this.. please be kind kind kind to yourself. Love and healing to you 💜
I am so sorry for your loss. What a horrific thing for a mother to go through. Of course that would be terribly traumatizing.
Praying for you and your family.
You….you…you …force me to confront my life and reality….with your crystal clear explanation of the phenomenon. Brings me to the edge. Eureka!
You do a great service to humanity 🙏
Glad you are back.
Thank you for helping me become a stronger version of myself and developing boundaries against the narcissist in my life. Over the years I’ve gained knowledge and greater understanding of my experience.
❤️ from Canada 🇨🇦
Sounding very sparkly today, Professor Sam. 🦄🧚♀️🧜♀️
Thank you Sam for your brillant work.So helpfull. My mother is a covert narcissist and my ex-husband too. I am a Codependent with severe narcisstic traits. (surely the narcissists living in me). I have this sadness syndrom. I am now aware that I am so identified with the sad baby that it became my principal self Image. I fear to let it go because I fear there is nothing else there even if I know there is an authentic self behind. Oh my gosh ,my mother didn't allow to be myself. Thank you so much
Thank you so much. A complicated, sad life now makes perfect sense.
Very interesting that borderline is the result of a failed narcissism attempt. When people want to lash out at me, they sometimes call me crazy or a narcissist, but I'm much more borderline, the victim of narcissists. That little factoid kind of scared me today.
Professor Vaknin, thank you for helping me understand me
Professor Vaknin - your words have touched many people’s awareness of their tangled relationships with these narcissists. Your videos (along with only one other person) finally helped me understand that I cannot fix the narcissist.
I Love Your sense of humor🥰
I have always felt deep sadness and sympathy for the narcissist in my life. Always given them another chance…
And in return, they’ve wreaked vengeance on me! Devoid of mercy!
Thank you to the Great Professor Sam Vaknin again for opening our eyes to the truth.
This video has to be the most profound and beneficial to show us all who have suffered narcissistic abuse that the narcissist truly needs now our compassion & forgiveness
There is so much detrimental talk about how we should go no contact with any narcissist that we come across in life
If we do this forevermore then all the narcissists in our world will be so isolated and will never learn to come to terms with the fact that they can receive and give Love to another again … if they just open their sad black hearts…. Have therapy…and allow the light to come back into heal their broken child heart… and become a full healthy loving adult heart… I do believe narcissists can change their sad, broken and misunderstood childish heart 🌈❤️🌈
Very clearly explained
There seems to many many suffering from this form of Depression
Sam we miss you and we love your hilarious jokes thank u for the knowledge u provide us...
This is a game changer. Thank you for bringing this to us. You are a brilliant communicator.
Thank you for your knowledge, as always Sam. 👏🏼👏🏼
The longer the better, Dr Vaknin. I have used them to go on long walks. They kept me moving because I got lost in the studies shared.
Please continue producing and posting content. So happy to have been notified that you have posted!
I'm so glad you're back
Soooo happy you’re back Dr. Vaknin, thank you for all you’re help and contributions, you change my life in so many ways, Hopping you’re well…Best regards from Tijuana, México 🇲🇽 Hope you came a visit sometime.
I am so glad you’re back. ❤️
Thank You for being back! Your addictive 🤩
Why if a child is idealized, are they not getting emotional nurishment. After all they are constantly coddled and catered to. I guess this is the confusing part about how this can make someone narcissistic.?
I love that you are back helping people. Thank
you.
Welcome back professor 👍🏽
Prof . Thank you for sharing . I’m learning so much from your videos which is bringing much closure to my life experiences with Narcs - even within my family .
This is brilliant and so very helpful, thank you for your work Dr. Vaknin.
The length of your videos are great! 🙂👍 aswell as the insight and content!
My question was answered towards the end of your video. Thank you!
Back finally Professor :D Happy days
I took a test online and I showed fearful avoidance type. I was sick as a child and my parents couldn’t hardly love on me or hold me due to I would cry when they held me because it would hurt my organs (kidneys) when they held me: my mother never told me loved me until I was an adult and never hugged me ever and she died in 2008! I got married when I was 20 to a parter who abused me. I left him over 30 years ago and never would remarry again. I am now 51! I had guys try to get engaged and I would not commit. I have broken up with every guys I been with. Want love so bad since I never had it but at the same time I am scared it hurt me! I believe I may be borderline. Therapist have thought that in the past! I feel sad my whole life!!! I feel like no love and I feel dead inside at times. If some hurts me it’s really hurts me bad. Thanks for this video as all your work! Also I am a very untrusting person! It’s a real issue!
Have you heard of Dialectical Behavioral Therapy (DBT)?
Thank You Sir for enlighting ALL of us. ☮️
Love your sense of humor and I thank you for imparting all this enlightenment to us!
Really excellent today. Shed a whole new light on the issue.
Thank you, you have been a godsend in my journey of healing.
Im addicted to your videos
Thank you SO much for sharing your amazing and huge insights , Professor Sam Vaknin 👌
Dear professor Vaknin, I am so grateful for all your teachings on youtube and for the various book recommendations you have made. I plan to buy them all. I am learning a great deal and I hope, making personal growth that will both change the course of my life and affect change in my family based on the comprehensive research you have done on narcissism and all that I am gaining from the videos you have made accessible to me. Be blessed ,and again, thank you so much.
we all miss you Sam welcome back!
Great work, Sam!…..Thank you for this video to shine light on the very pervasive and pernicious problem of psychological abuse in childhood and the life-long, lingering impacts it has in adulthood.
The biggest loss is that of love, the only value worth living for.
I feel like you are talking to me directly. Thank you for helping me find my mind again. Trauma affects perspective for everyone affected by others traumas. Its like the economy, totally circular. ❤️💋
Dr. Vaknin! I have read a lot of books looking for the essence of NPD and BPD and this lecture was fabulous! Please receive many thanks!
With All Honor!
Thank you very much Mr. Vaknin. While listening to understand something that sounded familiar (related to a narcissist I know), you have helped me a lot with myself. My parents were both psychotic, my grandparents saved me and took me with them at 2yo. Our bond was of course very strong, expecially with my grandfather. In the last years I have faced the death of our company (I had been preparing myself to direct it for years) and then the disease and then death of my beloved grandfather. 3 years passed but only now I start to feel better. And the proof is that I naturally escape every Hoover attempt by narcs (I met in the last years these kinds... probably a reaction to what was happening to my life). Maybe the one year time rule is an average one. Maybe when the situation is more complicated to process, it takes a bit more. But I will listen to your advice and, in case I feel depressed again, will contact someone to check my grieving process. Thank you 🙏🏼
You rock - but you already know that!! Enjoy your vids + insight. Rock on
Thank you so much for the information. It helped me a lot and so many people around the world.
Thank you Prof. Vaknin for this video. I was taking notes throughout, thank you for your valuable service.
Thank you so much. What an extremely profound discussion!!
Bravo Mr. Vaknin!!!! 👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼
Thank you Sir for sharing this valuable information with us. It was important for me to hear this.
I love and am so grateful for your wisdom and understanding
This golden information, thanks for your efforts.
It’s about time! What a relief 😅
A Genius. Bless you.
THANK YOU! for the insights! Our child has parents who can get along cos of your work!
You have helped me feel compassion for my x husband.
I eventually refused to be my x's 'mother' after 18 years, this began a bargaining period which followed a very quick ending of the marriage by showing me his hidden sadistic side a double life i knew nothing about and it helped me leave and stay gone, I'm super grateful now, it was a gift.
He had a heart breaking childhood and is very intelligent and talented. I admire his determination to live and he works so hard to have a good life despite his trauma.
As long as I remain compassionate and never ever - ever - ever fall into being his 'mother' again (which would be followed by his unconscious need to abuse his younger mother by abusing the one playing his mother now).
Because of you I know how to avoid being abused now and it works! ... do not let myself play mother (which means he has no interest in wanting to be with me, which is great)
We are good now and can co-parent sharing the love we have for our child. Thank you Sam ......
#1 Fan over here Professor Sam🖤🖤🖤
Glad you are back :)
Welcome back dr Vaknin🤩
thrilled you're back Sam, had missed your daily dose of truth
Powerfully impactful!!!!!
This is very helpful. Thank you!
Sam you are the newest angel in what's becoming a long line of angels put in my path of knowledge and healing! These insights you are presenting are immensely helpful. I'm finally understanding and that feels amazing! And I'm actually feeling that feeling 😁
Alayla,
No contact.
Let yourself heal and follow you gut instincts.
🙏
Wooow this is the first time I heard of you. Brilliant
I found you this week and now a new video hooray enjoy your way of presenting 😊.
Wow! Thank you.
I HAVE WOKEN UP MAD AS FUCK AND HURT AS HELL JUST POSTED THIS ON MY FACEBOOK WALL!!!
Awesome 👍 thank you !!! Your teaching s are so true !!!
Sam, I live for your opening remarks and one-liners 😂
Very informative, thank you
Thank you.
Even though narcssist I lived with left me destitute frankly for dead I do not hate her oh yeh at first was seething !! Like anyone but since researching condition I have cried for her!! Basically what tortured life I cannot even comprehend it xx
Welcome back. May I always be back.
Very happy to see you back Professor!
It’s great insight into their mental struggle, great for understanding their inability to ever change, making it easier to detach.
Ive looked everywhere in your channel to no avail, but is there a correlation of eating disorders to sexual abuse in males who have been diagnosed with narcissism? Or would that just be attributed to one of their many addictions?
Thank you!