The Power Pocket | Arming, Briefcase, and Over Rotation
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- čas přidán 31. 05. 2024
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0:00 - Intro
0:30 - TLDW
1:00 - Pocketed position
1:48 - Hand position
3:53 - Briefcase?
4:46 - How do I bring the arm in?
6:44 - How to practice?
7:43 - Easy 500’ foot crave into massive headwind
7:50 - Buy - Sport
THIS IS IT! I am 6'3" and 240lbs. I have always relied on my strength and disc was no exception. I understood the physics of the throw. I knew how the pro's do it. But I could just not make myself do that. I just always pulled my arm and muscled the disc to 350'. But this changed all that. I went out this morning with just my putters. I broke down the whole throw to just standing still and getting the disc into the power pocked and whipping it out. It took me about 30 mins of throwing before I did it right and it felt totally different. It felt like the disc ripped out of my hand.
I practiced for about and hour more and am throwing my putters 250' without anything more than a whip. No run up, no hips, no core, no real torso movement at all. Just whipping. Thank you for this video! I feel like I have just unlocked the very thing I was missing.
Finally somebody addressing this. I was always so bothered by all the advice on the internet saying your arm needs to be as lose as possible and others saying that the wrist being in the curled position in the pocket is just a consequence of all the other aspects of the swing going well and resulting in that motion. I tried keeping my arm and shoulder super loose and it was leading to my hand coming through too late like you showed. I tried keeping my wrist as limp/loose as possible, and it always ended up with my hand pulling the disc forward and not being outside of the disc.
It makes so much more sense that it obviously has to be an active movement to get in the correct positions, but you still want to keep it as loose as you can while achieving those positions so at the end of your throw your disc can still whip out of your hand. This is just like a golf swing. PGA pros aren't out there hitting bombs with noodle arms, it's all about balance.
Thank you. I need this. Two months of practicing, hoping i'm ready for this 🙏
"You're going to be alright". I'm strangely comforted. I've been playing for nearly 5 months now and I'm happy to report that my distance and accuracy have improved. Big smash of appreciation for you all.
Josh Idk if you read comments weeks after the fact but I’m glad someone finally addressed just how “loose” the arm should actually be. How we went from understanding that the “start the lawnmower” advice was bad to the complete other side of the spectrum with “your arm should be a noodle” has never made sense to me. It took about 3 throws with a “completely loose arm” to realize how absurd that advice was but nobody ever seemed to clarify it until now in this video. Thank you for that!
👀
Would be interesting to see you review your own throw.
Guys. Your chill, loose type videos are just spot on with superb editing. Pleasure to watch. And of course Josh explains the details extremely well. You can make a video just about nothing, just noodling around and the video would still be great to watch 😁 Keep it up!
Dan Beto has an excellent drill for exactly this.
Thank you. Would love a video on the standstill drive and how this goes into it for beginners.
Thomas Gilbert makes an amazing video breaking down his form, he gets into this position in a very exaggerated way. Definitely worth a watch
So you’re telling me that power pocket is that easy? I have always thought it will somehow come automatically from your arm movement and i have been quite frustrated for never getting it, cant wait to go out tomorrow and try this out.
Edit. Also i have to mention that i have always kept my arm noodle, many coaches tell to not muscle your arm and i’ve thought that they have meant to not really use it at all lol. This video gave me so much motivation to go out to practice, 2 years behind and just barely reaching 100 meters, i think this tip will get me to new levels. Thank you so much for this you’re the best coach on youtube!
The whole “briefcase” theory has been the biggest lightbulb breakthrough moment that I’ve been looking for. Watching back to self filmed videos, I can see how hard I was intentionally trying to tilt the disc away from me. This was forcing me to round since I was getting almost no mobility out of my forearm and elbow. I think this is a huge point to make and would probably help 95% of people that have trouble with rounding 👍🏻
Thanks for posting this, I've been following the "totally passive arm" advice for years, and just helping it into the pocket was an instant gain in D.
Love that you confirm that you need to use some arm to get there. Dan Brooks-Wells helped me with this when I took a lesson with him last year. Getting to that position became an anchor that helps me time the rest of my form and acts as a single thing to focus on during the shot.
i have tried so many things and cant get over 165 feet, but then the weathers clears up here i will go outside and try this. Love your videos
We’ve got a video we put up recently on not breaking 200’. Check it out!
I Will 😊
It’s like you made this video just for me. I hit a wall with my game and I have literally been working on this exact thing recently. I’m already seeing immediate improvement. Thanks Josh!
Smooth and Concise coaching! Keep it coming! 🤙🏻
Been lovin how real you guys keep it. Thats all.
Got a good lightbulb moment from the throw you did. My elbow is always overextending. Now that I see it, I can work on it and probably fix my release point. Great video
Awesome video, really clarified what needs to happen. I really loved when you said to just get to the position and not worry about how you get there as much.
Nicely packaged, easy to digest - nothing but to do it. Thanks, OT
Been struggling with exactly this. Thanks a lot!!
This video is just what I needed! Hit the practice field focusing on keeping a bent wrist until release. Result was longer distance, cleaner release. Why didn’t I think of this before (after 10 years of playing)?!?
WOW! Thank you so much for this video! I've had a big tendency to hit my left shoulder a lot and could never figure out why. I need to move my arm faster! I can't wait to try this out on the course this weekend.
This is great thanks for bringing these! If I may bring some critique: Somtimes I feel the editing is done to make the audio flow nice but when that happens while Josh is showing moves I sometimes get a bit lost. Example from 5:44 and forward. Again, learning so much and really appreciate you guys putting these out for free for everyone!
Mikey here! Understood! I’m working on this currently. Making sure that I find the balance between the two. Appreciate the feedback
Dude. Well done and accurate.
Amazing tips, will hit the field tomorrow to practice :D
Paging Dan Beto...is there a Dan Beto in the house?
this made me lol
I am going to implement that almost stand still pre loaded pocket technique you demoed at the end into my practice. Then start adding in the run up once I teach my body that position.
wow, so simple but so hard to replicate. TY
I recently learned that this is one of my throwing issues. I am one of the "keep everything loose in the upper body" learners and was recently told that "You don't look like you're projecting the disc out and throwing it where you want to.". It is all starting to make sense now and the only reason I've thrown it 450'+ with this type of thought is because my brace is good. Curious to see if this adds any distance, but more importantly consistency.
Yes, I like it! (you throwing) 🙏😉
that ASMR neckbeard scratching could be a positive direction for the channel
I would say no shave November but it looks warm wherever he is lol
😂
so good!!!
Solid advice. Once I curled the wrist so that the disc was under my arm, I could throw 11, 12, 13 speeds.
This is the one I needed
Really good
Not much to it but to do it 😮 Merch that slogan! Hoodie sweater ❤
“No, normal mo is fine”
I've seen this same "power pocket" advice in a number of videos: get the disc to mid chest -- or even right pec -- while the body is perpendicular to the target. To do this your elbow would have to be at a very acute, uncomfortable (dangerous?) angle with little room left to travel. Watching a bunch of slow-mos of top pros, I don't see anyone who gets in this position. When their bodies start rotating towards the target, the disc is coming off their left pec, or even their left shoulder/upper arm.
The elbow is acute. Check out the slow mos from above for easier viewing
Hey Josh i tilt the disc upwards (flight plate is shown ) in my power pocket how can I make the disc more flllat?
Is there any drill for footwork. I feel like i dont connect with the ground. My throw is mostly upper body
can you do a deep dive on the grip and the feel of not lettin go?
Thanks for this. Ever thought of doing a video that compares the disc golf throw to the ultimate pull? Or just a tutorial on the pull? With ultimate season picking up, I could use that.
Probably better to let the ultimate guys do that
New to this channel and so far I am really loving all of it! I loved the drills! Finally sth that is easy for the body to understand, a "wax on, wax off" moment. I wonder if all of the advices here on the channel are applicable for everybody, or is there a difference in coaching someone who is slower/ weaker/ got smaller hands? Thanks for great content🎉
All the advice on here definitely won’t work for every person. It’s just what I have found to be most helpful for most people. CZcams videos do not replace private coaching.
@@OverthrowDiscGolf thank you, yes, I understand that. We (my husband and me) are looking into that ;)
Hi my 10 year son and I just started disc golf. We have both played twice so far. Obviously we both are struggling with losing disc's and keeping the disc off the OB areas. My question is how do we play the round when our disc leaves the in play area? Of its in the trees buried back in or into a creek? What are the rules about this topic? Haven't seen anything about real amateurs that have this problem discussed. Might make a good video. 😅
love the neck beard. keep rocking it
Absolutely love the drill of already starting in the pocket. I think it will help with my practice of the brace since the upper is already there. Looks like you still rotated back as far as you normal would. Is that correct? Would just slowly extend your arm more and more until you are in your normal “reach back”?
Correct.
@@OverthrowDiscGolf Could that possibly lead to rounding while doing this type of drill or not? Disk is behind the body but already pull into the chest so wasn’t sure. Thanks!!!
@@justinsuttles8194 nope. Rounding is a collapsed pocket
THAT! Was super helpful. I've been focusing lately on my elbow as my leading edge during the throw. Seems the disc goes where my elbow goes? Is that right? More like I'm throwing my elbow than the disc and the disc just naturally whips out where my elbow was pointed...
That’s a point people use to aim
I’ve tried adjusting to the briefcase grip but I’m unclear how you adjust it for hyzer throws. The disc comes through in an anhyzer position naturally and while it’s easy to adjust it to flat it feels weird to rotate my wrist mid-throw to adjust for hyzer releases. How do you adjust for this, or does it just take practice? Thanks! Great content, love the beard!
It takes practice. Probably easier to watch Simon slow mo on different angles
I still have questions about the power pocket, you have mentioned that the disc needs to go through power pocket and thus you need your arm to get there. But then you say that the pocket is near your right pec, but then you create a angle more than 90 degrees. Is the pocket literally just the left to right pec and then the release is at the right pec, then the body rotates. I am getting the arm fast enough and the distance now comes much more ease but i do i need to do it speeding up faster to get more distance?
Once you get the position correct then speeding it up is the next step for increased distance. The pocket is greater than 90 once you get around the right pec.
Noticed that I am throwing with a straight wrist and grabbing the disc around 22:00 postition. Think that is a loss in spin? Kinda lost like 40ish feet of distance during winter and now trying to get em back
Probably a loss of spin
i was literally complaining about your neck beard as you spoke... you got me...
How do you get the disc to release straight to your target/perpendicular to your body? Anytime I've tried to hit the power pocket like you're showing here, I throw completely behind myself. I just went out to my practice net after watching this and it was the same issue. I can throw 450-500 but I know I'm not hitting the power pocket right.
Adjust your run up trajectory (or direction from a standstill). I had a similar problem when I started working on trying to get into the pocket because it changes your release point. Just play with it and relearn how to aim. Be slow and smooth and focus on where the disc comes out of your hand, not where or how it flies.
If you’re throwing 500’ you’re probably okay.
My question would be what is your wrist angle compared to the disc when gripping it?
I think I showed that a couple ways?
I have a suggestion for you guys, since every youtube teacher uses different terminology, preaches different things, feel like they are doing one thing but doing another, and some show one thing but when they throw it looks different. I for example was recently sold on being so lose in the arm I only used my body and the brace while having my shoulder in the right place and to solve the disc hitting my left shoulder with reaching out instead of back for example. after being taught years ago to muscle it with the classic "starting a lawnmower" then adding body and hip rotation on top of that for even more speed it seemed and felt correct. but now you say to drag it away from hitting the left shoulder which also feels like a good idea. Anyway my suggestion is for you guys to do reaction videos to other "teachers" to see what you guys agree or disagree with if its not too drama loaded :P . because in slow motion you lose all sense of momentum and its too easy to trick yourself into thinking they are doing what you think they are doing
Anyway I feel personally attacked and I appreciate it. good video and and its something I'm gonna try out. it makes sense that's how young kids like Eagle and Simon learned to throw faster and faster, they probably used their arm first then incorporated the rest. going from using the arm to suddenly stopping using the arm doesn't make sense for a kid that naturally learned themselves I don't think, using it less, sure. and thats probably a better place to start for most of us
Plan on having open discussions in the near future
Came here for the neckbeard, accidentally got better at disc golf.
Mechanically, if someone says they are putting more spin or less spin on a disc for a given disc speed, does this mean they are going deeper or less deep into the pocket? So keeping arm speed constant how do we adjust spin?
More or less curl in the pocket. Check out Drew and Simon in the pocket. Drew has incredible speed but not as much spin as Simon. Drew’s hand is more forward than Simon’s in the pocket.
Could you please address a anhyzer throw type video? I've having severe trouble throwing anhyzer with nose up (flat an hyzer throws are with good nose angle). Can not understand how it can be this hard :-D
Check out the swing plane video
I have perfect form why can’t I flip an egg in a pan?
Great content as always. Perhaps your next video can bridge this one and the last one… last video you emphasized how the back leg needs to sweep with the off-arm in while the right hand (RHBH) pulled into the pocket and out. This video, when you threw, you didn’t sweep the off-leg in, you lifted it up. This might be part of my challenge… your standstill slow exercises don’t map 1:1 to actual throw form. Please cover this, thanks!
Yeah, I’m not always the best about showing. That’s why I try to use pros as much as possible
Gavin Rathbun is a good pro to reference for starting in the power pocket position
Niklas Antilla as well
How much pressure on the grip? Clamping down? Or very loose?
I’m loose. It’s up for debate I think
Cool. Making adjustments. Have hit the wall. Used the disc facing out. Going to try not doing that. Thanks for vids
In my experience, the harder I grip the disc, the more it hurts when it releases from my hand. I think there's a law of diminishing returns when it comes to grip, and any harder past a certain point has too many negative consequences.
Do it to it😀
do you move your hips after your reachback
Which way?
What can you suggest losing weight I’m trying and struggling. Thanks for all you do!
Drink a ton of water. Then get back to me if that doesn’t work. Like over a gallon a day. And track it
@@OverthrowDiscGolf I lost 60 pounds about three years ago before nursing school and blah blah blah. I’m going to do low carb and will up my water intake.
Again nothing but the best content right here! 🤙🏻
@@AlohaVibes808 you can tell he’s passionate about disc golf and enriching people’s lives. Few out there like that.
I cannot recommend the Beto drill highly enough and highly recommend finding it on CZcams and doing it until it feels natural. Everything else in my form sucks, but this...
Dude, you need a drone or high fixed camera so we can get the view from above.
Early gang. Where my notification squad at?
Did that really go 500' feet in a headwind? Because if it did, that is one of the most effortless throws i have ever seen. crazy!
No. Lol. But good to know the chapters are being utilized.
I laughed out loud at that chapter title -- well played
@@erictriplett33 haha I guess I missed the joke :).
@@theostenmark2839 Yeah, clickbait titles to keep making Josh get YT-cash from his 100+ videos on explaining the throw once again. Finally he maybe aces it - and can move on?
Beto Drill 3.0? 15 years later and still relevant.
Still relevant
Love the beard and the advice! #weirdbeardgang
That's not a beard. It's just a hairy neck.
Love ya, neckbeard. 😘
I just don’t get it. Super frustrating. I wish you could show me in person…
Eventually arrived to Beto drill.
If I could grow two beards like you, I would never shave.
Josh, you know I love you guys and have referred dozens and dozens of players, but I have a problem that I've been holding in for too long. Whenever you do a backhand form video and you are walking through the throw, you do great modeling the beginning of the throw to the power pocket, but then you stop your shoulder rotation 90 degrees to the target and then arm the disc to the release point and follow through. I know you don't teach that why or throw that way, but it could be confusing for noobs I send to your site. I can't have you contradicting what I am teaching. 😜
Mmmmm. Well it does feel like the shoulders are very slow and the hand is moving much faster. Indeed it is. Students will probably mess up more focusing on shoulders moving forward out of the pocket than hand.
All I want to do now is noodle arm and smack my left should because I guarantee it’ll look hilarious
Josh is turning into mr steal your girl
... wow way to make me feel like a poor thrower of the disc ... Josh throws like 50' farther than me, when he uses a no reach back standstill verses my best ... This feels like a "my form is perfect why am I slower than Usain Bolt " moment ;) ughhh guess I get to work on this whole power pocket stufffff.
It wasn’t really 500. Rest assured
Kids watching this, eat your vegetables and do your beto drills
The power pocket is at the left pec, not the right.
And it only works if your shoulder is static, with your upper arm at 90-degrees to your chest.
This is the form that all top players are using.
Look at the position of the arm and chest when Paul's (and all other top pros) disc is ripping out.
THERE IS NO SHOULDER MOVEMENT IN A POWER THROW UNTIL AFTER THE DISC HAS GONE.
The Channel Spin & Throw Disc Golf can explain it all to you.
Watch side on view. Gonna disagree on this
This is something I've been looking a lot more into recently, and from studying pro form (across a lot of different ones) they're almost always having the upper arm at about a 90 degree angle, relative to the shoulder, throughout the actual throw. They reach a point where they reach (practically-speaking) a 90 degree angle by the time they reach the peak of the backswing, and that relative shoulder-to-arm angle remains around the 90 degree mark, up to release. From the moment the disc releases, onward, that's when the 90 degree angle is exceeded.
It's not perfect throughout the throw, but it's pretty close. If you take a look at the wireframe example in the Innova Tip of the Whip video, from the 90 second mark, you can see in that example, the 90 degree angle is reached in the last moments of the backswing, and remains that way up to the power pocket, when the angle increases a tiny bit, but that really happens from the release point and beyond. czcams.com/video/L1PHi-zgXIY/video.html
I'm certainly not saying this is the case for everyone, but it seems to be very common at the top pros. And I think this actually fixes other issues, such as disc wobble (by keeping the disc in the same angle throughout the swing), and of course, rounding. Also Dan Beto teaches closer to a 110 degrees in his 2.0 drill where you essentially lock your arm at a wider angle, with the disc below the right pec, but nobody outside of Garrett Gurthie seems to be exceeding that in their power throws.
I've been having some elbow tightness / pain from backhand. Is it because I'm not following through enough? I been really trying to constantly "hit" the "hit point". Maybe forcing it too much at 10 / 11 o clock? Or over extending my hit? :(
Also "Normal-mo" cracked me up
Unsure without looking. You’ll have to get someone to check it out
Great content as always, Josh. I'm curious how your coaching aligns with @dgspindoctor and his tips. I've learned so much over the past year from both of you.
We are aligned
Your neck has less hair than Paige Pierce's armpits. I'd call that a win. (it's a joke to all the virtue hounds)