Interview: Evidence of Israel in Egypt-From the ‘Egypt’ in Israel
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- čas přidán 27. 07. 2024
- When considering evidence of Israel in Egypt, scientists have generally searched for material evidence. But it isn’t the only means of investigating whether or not Abraham’s descendants really did “sojourn” in Egypt.
On today’s program, host Brent Nagtegaal talks to archaeologist Christopher Eames about another approach: looking for evidence of Egypt in Israel. Specifically, evidence in the foundational book of Israel’s history, the Torah.
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Só many good News from this channel.
one would think that if people were writing the Torah hundreds of years later - they would be inclined to paint their ancestors in a more favorable way - but the fact that Bene Yesrael are depicted as stubborn and ungrateful proves the legitimacy of the Torah
No.
*Let's briefly run through the 'ten plagues':*
First the rivers are turned to blood, all the fish die and the waters stink. No one has any water to drink. This lasted for seven days and would have resulted in mass deaths due to dehydration. Amongst the first to die would have been the children. *The author doesn't think to explain how the Hebrews were saved from this. No record of it was made anywhere in any Egyptian records.* Exodus 7:17-25.
This is followed by a plague of frogs which had somehow survived the rivers of blood that had killed all the fish. A mere inconvenience, nothing more, and a big stink when they all died, *but no record anywhere.* Exodus 8:2-13.
Next we have the plague of lice about which very little is said *and of course no record was made.* To a people who would have been accustomed to lice this would probably have been nothing remarkable. Exodus 8:16-18.
Then the flies. Apart from the land being 'corrupted', whatever that means, there don't appear to have been any ill effects from this and they disappear as quickly as they came a few days later. *Nothing worth recording there, obviously.* Exodus 8:21-31.
Now the author seems to begin to lose the plot and describes a 'grievous murrain' *which kills all the Egyptians' cattle, horses, camels and sheep.* ***They all died - hold that thought.*** *No Egyptian historian or keeper of official records deems it worthy of mention.* Exodus 9:3-6.
Next come the boils which afflict everyone and everything, including all the livestock ***even though they had been killed by the 'grievous murrain' a few days earlier,*** *apparently, and yet no-one thought to write anything down anywhere.* Of course, anyone who understood anything about microorganisms and the aeteology of boils would have described this as an infestation with Staphylococcus - the signs of faecal contamination - but the author was obviously unaware of these. Maybe he was just in too much of a muddle by now to care. Exodus 9:8-11.
Now it's hailstones so bad that every plant, every tree, every servant (for servant read slave) ***and even the livestock (that our story-teller has forgotten already that he killed off in the fifth plague before given them boils in the sixth) were harmed.*** It looks like our story-teller has learned from his earlier silly mistake with killing all the livestock too soon then having to resurrect them later. He mentions that some plants survive. Do I smell stinking fish again? *The greatest hail storm in all Egyptian history, apparently, but not worthy of being recorded.* Exodus 9:18-25.
It's the turn of the locusts and it's suddenly obvious why some plants had to survive. *How could the locusts turn Egypt into a barren desert if the hail storm had done it earlier?* Good thinking there. Shame about the earlier boob! *Mysteriously, no Egyptian scribe appears to notice any of this or the inevitable famine and mass starvation which would have ensued.* Exodus 10:4-15.
And for the penultimate trick, it's going to be dark for three days. *No one makes a record of this, obviously.* Exodus 10:21-23.
The last 'plague' is not so much a plague as a ritual genocide. *Here our tale takes a nasty turn and the true character of the Hebrew god is revealed in all its glory - a petty, vindictive, homicidal psychopath who has not yet acquired the omniscience he will be granted later. He kills every firstborn Egyptian in a single night,* ***including the firstborn of all the cattle that died in the fifth plague.*** *For some reason he needs the Hebrews to leave a secret sign so he doesn't kill them too. Weirdly, he can't tell his own chosen people from ordinary Egyptians and doesn't even know where they live.* And he had been leading up to this, apparently, because after every plague he 'hardens the heart' of Pharaoh so that he wouldn't let the Hebrews go. He had actually been planning this genocide all along just to impress people with his powers. *And still no-one thought even this mass killing in a single night worth making a note of in any Egyptian records.* Exodus 12:1-30.
And then, of course, Pharaoh could muster up 600 horses to pull the chariots ***from amongst all the dead livestock from the 5th plague*** (Exodus 14:7).
Google *"Rosa Rubicondior: Origins Of The Exodus Myth"*
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Google *"Debunking Christianity: PATTERNS OF POOR RESEARCH- A Critique of Patterns of Evidence:Exodus"*
Google *"For you were (not) slaves in Egypt: The ancient memories behind the Exodus myth - Archaeology - **Haaretz.com**"*
Google *"Why the Exodus Story Has Value Despite Being Complete Myth - Psychology Today Australia"*
Google *"Is the Exodus a Myth? - Worlds Beyond"*
Google *"Historicity of Exodus and Moses - The Creatively Maladjusted"*
Google *"Biblical Contradiction #81. When did the Exodus allegedly happen: during the reign of Rameses II (1279-1213 BC) OR in 1447 BC?"*
Google *"Ten Reasons Why the Bible’s Story of the Exodus is Not True - by Tim Zeak - ExCommunications - Medium"*
Google *"Why Moses Did Not Write the Torah - Thomas Shoemaker"*
Google *"Sargon the Great and Moses - The Word of Me… Wordpress"*
Google *"Contradictions in the Bible | Identified verse by verse and explained using the most up-to-date scholarly information about the Bible, its texts, and the men who wrote them -- by Dr. Steven DiMattei"*
Google *"How do we know that the biblical writers were* ***not*** *writing history? -- by Dr Steven DiMattei"*
Amen and what a nation the people of Israel and Judah were/are. Reflected and still Reflects the nature of all humanity. It also just reaffirms John 3:16 , Undeserved, unmerited favor on Mankind.
@@joshuanun5317 the idea of One Unseen Creator may be difficult to comprehend even nowadays - yet man must strive to reach it (the first of three meanings of the name Israel)
Exactly. The criterium of embarrassment is one of the ways that scholars authenticate documents.
The Jews were also educated not just the priesthood. When the 2nd temple was destroyed, they made sure the writings were The Torahs when they were copied by scribes were doubled tripled were reviewed
Since they were the Word of Vashem they had to be perfect.
Way interesting. Thanks for all your hard research
Since much was found in Saudi Arabia (former Midian), altar, animal pens, graves, blackened mountain - is it possible to go there for archaeological exploration?
The Arabs won't allow it.
Great content.
Thank you. True faith is willing to allow questions to be asked and go the distance to answer them properly. Giving up our precious historical treasure to peer pressure is much easier. Current western attitude would much prefer these books to be retrospective and hence, less authoritative.
great video
thank you
fantastic, exciting
I don't have Exodus 7:26:28 what Bible version do you use?
It is amazing that every criticism by the world are proven wrong by the Bible itself, and the archaeology.
Every critics of the Bible prove by their own words that they didn't read the Bible, hence proving the veracity of it.
Watch the must-see documentary "Patterns of Evidence: Exodus".
yes good video love it 😃
I have always simply believed the words written in the new testament where Jesus testifies as to who wrote the Law - Moses. Luke 24:44 - 'And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.' John 5:46 - For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me; for he wrote of me.' This was also the testimony of the Apostle Philip in John 1:45 - 'Philip findeth Nathanael, and saith unto him, We have found him, of whom Moses in the law, and the prophets, did write, Jesus of Nazareth, the son of Joseph.' As always this archaeological / historical / textual evidence to corroborate is excellent.
Joshua wrote the last few verses of Deuteronomy
The Talmud just assumed that Joshua wrote the last eight verses of Deuteronomy, so even people that believe in Mosaic authorship never claimed that Moses wrote those verses.
Also, whether Moses wrote it with his own hand, or ordered a scribe to write it, he was still the author. The King James version of the Bible wasn't literally written by King James.
Basket in the nile with a baby, crocodile snack!!
When it comes to the use of pharaoh signals familiarity with the pharaoh (like if you are in the army you just say Sir not LTC XYZ or when you talk to the president you say “Mr president” not president Biden”) and it also signals familiarity for the original readers - he didn’t need to say who, because they all knew. We all must remember that the Bible was written for us but not to us.
I have traces of Druze from Israel and Chaldea where they have a pyramid and Sphinx like in Egypt and Western and Eastern Mediterranean and and have Balkan and Baltic ancestry where they have pyramids in Bosnia and also ties to pyramids in Mayan and Inca Aztec pyramids and areas where pyramids are around the world although I am mostly Northern European and am U5a1b1 maternal mitochondrial DNA haplogroup.
*The Enuma Elish would later be the inspiration for the Hebrew scribes who created the text now known as the biblical Book of Genesis.* Prior to the 19th century CE, the Bible was considered the oldest book in the world and its narratives were thought to be completely original. In the mid-19th century CE, however, European museums, as well as academic and religious institutions, sponsored excavations in Mesopotamia to find physical evidence for historical corroboration of the stories in the Bible. ***These excavations found quite the opposite, however, in that, once cuneiform was translated, it was understood that a number of biblical narratives were Mesopotamian in origin.***
*Famous stories such as the Fall of Man and the Great Flood were originally conceived and written down in Sumer,* translated and modified later in Babylon, and reworked by the Assyrians ***before they were used by the Hebrew scribes for the versions which appear in the Bible.***
***In revising the Mesopotamian creation story for their own ends, the Hebrew scribes tightened the narrative and the focus but retained the concept of the all-powerful deity who brings order from chaos.*** Marduk, in the Enuma Elish, establishes the recognizable order of the world - *just as God does in the Genesis tale* - and human beings are expected to recognize this great gift and honor the deity through service.
Google *"Enuma Elish - The Babylonian Epic of Creation - Full Text - World History Encyclopedia"*
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Google *"**ExChristian.Net** - Articles: The Bible: Primitive Nonsense"*
Google *"10 Ways The Bible Was Influenced By Other Religions - Listverse"*
Google *"Top Ten Reasons Noah’s Flood is Mythology - The Sensuous Curmudgeon"*
Google *"Reasons for disbelief: The top ten reasons I am an atheist - Real Bible Stories"*
(Written by a former minister)
Google *"Secular Societies Fare Better Than Religious Societies - Psychology Today"*
Google *"**ExChristian.Net** - Articles: The Bible - Is it the Word of GOD?"*
Google *"The Adam and Eve myth - News24"*
Google *"Some Reasons Why Humanists Reject The Bible - American Humanist Association"*
Google *"The origins of the Ten Commandments - Carpe Scriptura"*
Google *"Does the Ipuwer Papyrus Refer to the Biblical Exodus Account? - Bishop's Encyclopedia of Religion, Society and Philosophy"*
Google *"Before Adam and Eve - Psychology Today"*
Google *"The Problem of the Bible: Inaccuracies, contradictions, fallacies, scientific issues and more. - News24"*
Google *"Gilgamesh vs. Noah - Wordpress"*
Google *"40 Problems with Christianity - Hemant Mehta - Friendly Atheist - Patheos"*
Google *"The Problem With Faith: 11 Ways Religion Is Destroying Humanity"*
Google *"Retired bishop explains the reason why the Church invented "Hell""*
Google *"You Need To Consider The Possibility Your Religion Is Mythology"*
Google *"No, Humans Are Probably Not All Descended From A Single Couple Who Lived 200,000 Years Ago"*
Google *"Adam & Eve: Theologians Try to Reconcile Science and Fail - The New Republic"*
Google *"Adam and Eve: the ultimate standoff between science and faith (and a contest!) - Why Evolution Is True"*
Google *"Bogus accommodationism: The return of Adam and Eve as real people, as proposed by a wonky quasi-scientific theory - Why Evolution Is True"*
Google *"The Shroud of Turin Is Definitely a Hoax - Tales of Times Forgotten"*
Google *"Old Testament Tales Were Stolen From Other Cultures - Griffin"*
Google *"Parallelism between “The Hymn to Aten” and Psalm 104 - Project Augustine"*
Google *"Contradictions in the Bible | Identified verse by verse and explained using the most up-to-date scholarly information about the Bible, its texts, and the men who wrote them -- by Dr. Steven DiMattei"*
Google *"How do we know that the biblical writers were* ***not*** *writing history? -- by Dr Steven DiMattei"*
So everywhere the Israelites were Mesopotamia, Babylon, Sumer (Iraq) we find evidence of their writings just being attributed to others, seems this is evidence for the OT writing.
Wait I just googled "forgery" turns out forgery only started in the 1800's = Google stats.
Why does he use the term BC"E"? Is he not sure what event took place that separated the "current era" from the previous? Don't you realize that changing the terminology from BC/AD to something new is a secularist attempt to rewrite and remove God from History?
It always frustrates me when Christians say BCE
Whether you use BC/AD or BCE/CE you are still using the birth of Christ as the starting point.
@@mikeljenks no Bce means before common era not before Christ
@@SongsOfTheWay and the common era is defined by the birth of Christ. BC and BCE use the same point in time as 0.
Genesis 14verse14 says something contrary to the facts
I have always believed that the Bible, Torra, was written by many scribes over the generations, and rewritten as time went by until all the books were put together...
Very appealing, but I would like sources for these claims. I find it cruder and more dishonorable to make false claims about God and his people. I agree, with what you're saying, but I would like secondary sources, besides your website. They sound reasonable and true, but with everything man does we tend to twist stories to our own likings (even when we me good).
Then don't make false claims and do your own research. My students used to try to get me to do their work for them. And get your own channel.
@@InfoArtistJKatTheGoodInfoCafe agree
You can just do your own research and verify this.
Sun Gate Alexandria
משה is a verb
Hidden Rambo: Hykos, called He- qua- kha-sut. Thutmose, called Djehutymes. Moses: Ahmose. All are Khemet names. Not Greek names.
There ia no evidence of Israel in Mizraim because Israel is a man named jacob and it only means Is Royal.
moses wrote the Torah
WHAT RUBBISH. The old testament was written over a period of about 350 years. (Most scholars agree.) Most importantly, Moses could not have written a description of his own funeral.
@@michaelberman4478 ah no, it was written over a lot longer period considering the date the prophets wrote their accounts .
@@michaelberman4478 Joshua , the commander Moses put in charge before his death wrote the last chapter of Deut.
no doubt Moses had informed Joshua before hand, to prepare Joshua of his eventual death ; and Joshua wrote about Moses death in the last chapter of Deut .
I really hate this stupid idea of calling the Hebrews, "Egyptians" or "Canaanites".
Your foremost problem here (and Im positive that you know this) is that everything archeology does favours Egypt and anything they do find concerning the Biblical record is suppressed!! Again Im certain that both of you know this yet you lead the audience to believe that any validation of the Biblical record must concur with the supposed archeological record!! That is illogical!! The alleged Egyptian historical record is so highly esteemed by European archeology that our entire society is based on all its pagan gods of Apollo, ORION, Artemis and Ra!! Why do you seek the esteem of archeology when they hate you and the Biblical record!!?
Depends on what archeologists you listen to. There are many that believe the bible is proven by archeology. You just have to look harder to find them. This is Satan's world right now. It's why we are told to come out of it rev 18:4. Satan doesn't want us believing in God the father or Jesus the Son. He has many people doing his bidding until Jesus returns.
@@johnmonk9297 Um. That was my point. Most archeologists favor everything Egyptian and promote it over Hebrew truth! Our society celebrates the pagan satanic gods of Egypt that Rome and Greece adopted of which present day society serve!! Apollo, Orion, Artemis, Saturn, Mars and Jupiter. GRAVITY is thier God, NEWTON its prophet and NASA its disciples!!
First of all, Yahweh is not a name of God. There is no "w" in Hebrew. It is a mistransliteration of the YHVH, or Yud-Hey-Vuv-Hey. It is deemed unpronounceable as it is the only Hebrew word without vowells.
Second, you should mention the Ipuwer Papyrus which gives us an Egyptian account of the exodus.
Third, archeologists dismiss the Torah's account because of a lack of evidence. They don't consider that just maybe they were looking under the wrong time period. It has always been assumed that Ramses II was the pharaoh of the exodus, but there is evidence that the exodus happened earlier. There is a Jewish oral tradition that the pharaoh who enslaved the Israelites ruled for 90 years. There was such a pharaoh, who actually ruled for 94 years, named Pepi II. He reigned over a powerful kingdom, but Egypt quickly collapsed after his death. This does correspond with the Torah's account.
Now the dating of the Ipuwer Papyrus does not exactly correspond with the period of Pepi II's successors, but remember the dating is just an estimate. All evidence together indicates that the exodus is historic fact, but that it occurred prior to Ramses II.
I like this comment. I have done what everyone has done and tried to make a timeline from Adam which has Moses birth around 1507 which lines up with the death of Joseph around 1538 and with the oppression of the Hyksos (Israelites) around that time. Making the two Pharaohs (Father son) Thutmose III (Menkheperre) 1504 - 1450
Amenhotep II (Akheperure) 1427 - 1392
(Thutmose III 1512 start after successful revolt)
Exodus 1:6-16 Now Joseph and all his brothers and all that generation died, 7 but the Israelites were exceedingly fruitful; they multiplied greatly, increased in numbers and became so numerous that the land was filled with them.
8 Then a new king, to whom Joseph meant nothing, came to power in Egypt. 9 “Look,” he said to his people, “the Israelites have become far too numerous for us. 10 Come, we must deal shrewdly with them or they will become even more numerous and, if war breaks out, will join our enemies, fight against us and leave the country.”
11 So they put slave masters over them to oppress them with forced labor, and they built Pithom and Rameses as store cities for Pharaoh. 12 But the more they were oppressed, the more they multiplied and spread; so the Egyptians came to dread the Israelites 13 and worked them ruthlessly. 14 They made their lives bitter with harsh labor in brick and mortar and with all kinds of work in the fields; in all their harsh labor the Egyptians worked them ruthlessly.
15 The king of Egypt said to the Hebrew midwives, whose names were Shiphrah and Puah, 16 “When you are helping the Hebrew women during childbirth on the delivery stool, if you see that the baby is a boy, kill him; but if it is a girl, let her live.”
Just my biased opinion but I think it fits well there is upheaval anti-Israelite sentiment already in full swing in the region before these come to power so when they get there they don't care about Joseph he was the problem in their eyes, they are military men (cut throat) and Thutmose had a few daughters who could've adopted Moses.
Indeed, the Pharao of the Exodus is dead under the sea and his mummy looks like a 20 yo instead of a 80yo ( +- same age as Moses)
@@sylvaind5303 There is a Midrash which says that Pharaoh did not die at Yom Suf, but survived, left his throne, and traveled the world telling everyone about Hashem's power. This does make sense, since one of God's goals was to prove that Pharaoh's claims of godhood were false.
I should point out that Midrashim are not always to be taken literally. They are written not as historical reference, but to make a point. This particular Midrash also says Pharaoh roamed the world until he came to Nineveh, where he was offered the kingship after telling his story. Supposedly he was still king during Jonah's visit, which is why the city repented and did teshuva. That part of the story is stretching things a bit. But I still accept the theory that Pharaoh survived the sea since having him die would defeat the purpose, which was to get Pharaoh to admit he was not a god, and that Hashem is the only true god.
You can find rabbinic opinions in support of both sides.
The problem with trying to date using the pharaohs, is to assume that there was only one pharaoh ruling, with another one following after his death. In fact there were several pharaohs ruling over different areas at the same time, and they naturally overlapped.
@@abigailfoster2467 The problem is that the Torah does not seem to be too concerned with dates. That has driven scholars crazy over the years. But Jewish oral traditions do offer some clues.
There is an oral tradition that says the pharaoh who enslaved Israel reigned for 90 years. This story has been traditionally scoffed at by historians, until they found a pharaoh who did reign for that long. His name was Pepi II, who actually ruled for 94 years (2246-2152 BCE). He left behind a powerful kingdom. His successor was Merenre II, who ruled less than a year and left Egypt in ruin. The facts fit these accounts, at least being a tighter fit than other accepted historical dates, though I do note that this would mean the exodus took place 7 centuries prior to when historians traditionally date the event. But those historians were working with estimates, assumptions, and a lack of hard documentation. Pepi II could well be the pharaoh who enslaved Israel, and Merenre II could well be the pharaoh of the exodus. I cannot state this for sure, but the evidence does fit the theory. The evidence is just incomplete.
LMFAO.....NO EVIDENCE
"FBI criminal profiler James R. Fitzgerald began working on the case in July 1995. He remembers the Unabomber as a "criminal mastermind" who went to extraordinary lengths to erase any trace of physical evidence within his explosives."
"But Fitzgerald and his colleagues did have one important source of *evidence* : In the 1990s, the Unabomber began sending letters about his crimes to the media and some of his victims. In 1995, he sent a sprawling, 35,000-word "manifesto" to The New York Times and The Washington Post"
"Fitzgerald says the Unabomber's writings were a "pivotal factor" in cracking the case. He and his colleagues used them to help pinpoint the age and geographic origin of their suspect - *evidence* that helped lead to the April 6, 1996, arrest of Ted Kaczynski, an ideologically motivated hermit living in a cabin in Montana."
Seems the FBI disagrees with you Linguistic and textual analysis is evidence & worth using.
It's not BCE. Its BC. Stop using the language of your oppressors oppresors.
That is why we use BCE.
BCE: Before Christ Existed🤗
@@InfoArtistJKatTheGoodInfoCafe BCE means Before the Common Era.
BCE is a horrible replacement for BC because it's just an attempt to secularize it
@@rayzas4885 More like it is a reminder that other people follow a different religion than you do.
Please stop using the pagan, anti-God terms "BCE" and "CE". You should be using the historical terms "BC" and "AD". Jesus split history. The Old Testament (BC) looks forward to the Cross and the New Testament (AD) looks back at the Cross. Why are you surrendering the language to the enemy?
armstronginstitute.org/840-bc-ad-or-bce-ce
The Bible is derivative religious literature. Brent Nagtegaal is using circular logic assuming his conclusions. He does not even discuss the possibility of the subject matter of the Torah being derivative from earlier Sumerian mythology.
To date there is no serious archeological evidence for Israel being an enslaved people in Egypt. There is also no evidence of the Exodus, none, and modern archeology has uncovered an enormous amount of the history of Egypt. This article is twaddle.
Your last sentence should be in all caps, at least double the size.
@@Silverheart1956 Wow! Very well said. You understand that the chances of @John understanding or even considering the truth, logic, reasoning you gave are slim to none? Perhaps next step is speaking in parables? Pearls before swine can get frustrating 😜🤔God bless