How to tune ms41 ECUs (BMW m52/s52 engines): Vanos tuning
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- čas přidán 25. 12. 2017
- Continuing the "How to tune ms41 ECUs" series. This time I will show how to do vanos tuning for wide open throttle pulls.
Big credits to the guys that have made all this ms41-tuning possible: Abhishek Shinde, Alec, Kim, Kyle, and Dale. If you find this information useful, considre dontaing to the ms41 project: www.paypal.me/A... and to the RomRaider folks: www.paypal.com...
If you want to help making of these videos, you can donate to this channel through PayPal: paypal.me/pazi88
New flash tool for ms41: sites.google.c...
The OBDII cable I'm using available at Ebay: tinyurl.com/yb...
The OBDII to round bmw connector adapter available at Ebay: tinyurl.com/yb...
RomRaider and RomRaider logger download link: www.romraider.c...
RR logger official definitions: www.romraider.c...
ms41 wiki: sites.google.c... - Auta a dopravní prostředky
Jätkä pyörittää ekseliä niinku piru raamattua! Hyvää tavaraa as usual.
Great videos, luckily there is CC for your videos :D
Dude, I love your videos. Glad I found your channel. Keep it up bro
pazi, god of ms41
so interesting and cool videos, i hope there will be more. greetings from germany
I have many more coming when I have time to edit.
Excellent video learned how to use those csv files in excell properly lol i was for sure looking through the information for awhile
thank you for all the details
Wow!! Awesome ! Next cool Step could be how to tune m52 With m50 instake! All of this Stuff can aply to a ms41.2 conversión with ms41.0 map?
There is not much in the m50 intake swap tuning. Just tune the vanos and ignition advance as i have shown. This vanos tuning will also apply to ms41.2 also. But it has speed dependent vanos map so you can make the vanos switch earlier than that 100-200 RPM at lower speeds.
Nice video brother,
How about AT transmission to take data logger? Put shifter at D?
How can I tune the VANOS of the MS41.2, as it is speed related... I'm very confused there. Thanks in advance
how much hp gain would you get from doing this on a stock m52b25?
it comes correctly tuned from the factory so none probably. also this pretty much only affects how even the torque curve ends up being so no gains
Is there any efficient way to tune vanos in MS41.2? In that ECU vanos is speed dependant
Are you not supposed to use a round plug under the hood instead of the OBDII?
Is it possible to connect an e36 m50 obd1 ecu to a laptop?.
I wanto pull data for a digital dash or tuner studio
I think I read somewhere on RR that the ms41 learns the vanos delay time and stores it in the adaptions so the delay goes away, is this Not true? Also, how does the Interpolation Work in the vanos map? If the map has a 1 at 4500 and 0 at 5000, when will it start doing the Switch?
Can you record a film with romraider how to tune ms41 rev limiter like m50?
good video, is it compatible with m52 b28?
Pazi, is it the same with the intake vanos with m52tu and m54?
Hi Pazi, I have question, do you have loggs from stock work vanos? when normal vanos start works and when end? I have problem with my, but I need orginal data to comparison, and * Idle Air Control Valve should be open when is WOT or close? in my engine have more less 70%.
thx
No unfortunately.
Hello! :)
Can you help me?
What type of interface is good for romraider? K+Dcan? Or which?
Thank you for the information!
Tamás Bimmer I have link in description.
Thank You!
Hello please for e39 m52 ms41 97. 110kw Ecu 1429861 please tel me the values for pop n bang (popcorn) i use romraider and siemens MS41 flash tool v 1.05b thank you im follower love your videos best regards alias Aknas
Search the RomRaider forum. Lots of info there
Can MS41 be tuned to support boost? I did saw some good info on romraider but didnt dive into it. I'm interested as it would be fun project and looking around 250-300whp.
xdanano Yes it can. I have done few turbo tunes for ms41. Hopefully in some point I will have time to finish editing videos about that.
pazi88 awesome, thx for quick reply.
@pazi88 in my logs the throttle position is maximum 88% even with my foot to the floor... Does that matter, is it possible to calibrate?
Yes that is quite normal. It's just RAW adc voltage from ecu. The ecu calibrates the actual tps% constantly but it's not seen in the logs. So no need to worry about that. If you wan't to have it from 0-100% (which is unnecessary), you can adjust the conversion calculation in logger definition
@@pazi88 excellent, thanks!
Hey man, as always great informative video. Thanks a lot for your effort!
How are the stock Vanos settings? I always thought Vanos is on all the way until high rpm and then shuts off. And there are some rumors that Vanos is switched on again at even higher rpm to lower engine output.
So Vanos table would be 1 1 1 1 0 0(1?) or so.
Or does BMW also "mess" with the settings like you do (switching Vanos off and on and off and on)? Also, is it true that Vanos switches on again at very high rpm? How much hp (pump gas, 102 octane max here) do you think is achievable with stock M52B28 and only remap?
And will it be even more with M50 intake?
Thanks mate!
Vanos is off at idle and turns on at lower RPM when you apply throttle. There is the light throttle map that defines if the vanos is on or of by RPM and engine load. When you floor it vanos is on up to ~4100 RPM and stays off until rev limiter.
There is not much hp gains from remapping stock engine. Only few hp. Mostly you can achieve more torque. And also there is very little benefit on running high octane gas on stock engine. You would need to raise compression ratio to make the engine use the higher octane gas.
Thanks for the answer!
Ok, I see why Vanos is off at idle, you would need all oil pressure you can get at ~700rpm rather than powering the Vanos...
You say stock is not as "messy" as your tuned table and there is no activation of Vanos at higher rpms as the rumors say. Ok, interesting. So the M52's "limitation" at high rpms is in fact only the intake, right? Btw also interesting that you said below some other comment that M52TU intake is even better than M50 one, will keep my eyes on that.
Not much hp gains from remapping stock engine but a bit mid range torque on high octane pump gas? Ok, so again limitation is the M52 intake I guess and maybe camshafts.
Well, I'm not really hoping for much performance gains from stock engine and remapping, the target is to build a well working lower budget turbo M52B28 (euro spec) and do the mapping on my own. I maybe wanted to gain first experience from messing with the DME on the stock engine before the bosst is coming, you know...
If I really get this project going I will use much information from your videos (again, thank you a thousand times already) and I for sure will have a lot of questions in the future, just gonna say sorry in advance :D
Don't want to overload you with text but after you hopefully answered the last Vanos referred questions of this comment I could write up my plans for roughly 400+hp setup and you could say what you think of my plans. That would be extremely helpful since you have already built some M52 turbos...
Peter Muelltonner The vanos will stay in on position at idle just fine. The engine will just run very badly if it would be turned on. Yes I have tested :D And yeah the m52tu intske would be better than m50. But the intake is not limitation in m52. It's the cams. You get best hp gains just be changing cams and doing custom tune for those.
Thank you again! I just digged a bit deeper in single Vanos and now it makes sense why it is off at idle. Ok.
So M52 is limited by cams and after that by manifold you say, ok thanks. Here your M54B30 camshaft mod should do the trick I guess.
One more thing I am constantly thinking of: First question, did your Nikasil block do well in the white E30? Which video do I have to watch for that? Haven't seen your more recent videos yet...
I'm not sure if boosting my Nikasil B28 is such good idea (target around 450-500hp on 102 octane, maybe water meth injection). Cylinder liners would need to be in good shape, block would need time serting, expensive head gasket, other cams, maybe head studs, Vanos rebuild, maybe expensive Nikasil piston rings, not sure if M50 rods...
I read something from you in comments of another video about M52TU engine. You said that there isn't such problem with head screw threads (Why, isn't it the same aluminium?), it has factory MLS gasket, steel cylinder liners and here below this video you said that you prefer M52TU intake manifold over M50 or M52 one. So M52TU seems pretty attractive to me, they also seem to be cheaper than regular M52B28s. I would be very glad to hear your opinion on that. Maybe I should go for a TU engine in E36 or even buy an E46 for boosting? Is the tuning of TU DME much different to the MS41 you show here in your videos? Somebody once said that DME from M54 can't deal with rpms over 6500, how is this in MS42 from TU engine?
Here is how the nikasil block looked: czcams.com/video/gqi_LRRmwmM/video.htmlm52s There was no other damage than the cylinder wear in number 1 and 6 cylinders because of way too rich e85 mixture we had that washed away the oil and the fact that m50 intake doesn't create even AFR between cylinders.
The m52, m52tu and m54 have same problems with the head bolt threads. The threads itself are fine but if you overheat the block, the aluminium will get soft and the threads let go. The reason that m52tu and m54 don't suffer about that so much, is probably that those have different (better) coolant flow. Whole cooling system is different in those. But the single vanos threads hold just fine if you don't overheat the engine. For example in my e30, the head has come of something like 4 times and I have driven that up to 1.2 bar of boost. No timeserts and still using stock headbolts.
But I would prefer m52tu and m54 if starting fresh built. Because of the mls gasket those are much more suitable for boost even unopened. And all around much better engine. The tuning of ms42 from m52tu and ms43 from m54 is pretty much the same as m41. Of course the vanos tuning is harder because of the dual vanos system, but the results will be better also. And there is many more fuel maps compared to ms41 but you can put all the same and tune those like there would be only one fuel map. I have done few m52tu turbo tunes. Some results of those in here: www.romraider.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=14389
ms41/2/3 rev limit is 8160 RPM. The m54b30 is bit problematic because of the longer stroke than the other engines and that causes the oil pump nut vibrate loose if you rev the engine closer to 7000RPM all the time. But I would start with m52b28tu, because it doesn't suffer from same problem and is much cheaper engine than m54b30. Also even though the m52tu is basically drive by wire. There is still throttle cable in those. So putting those to older cars is easier, because you don't need to run extra wires to throttle pedal.
Pazi are you running oem coils with your ms? If so how did you set it up?
B Morris Yes OEM coils. There is not much to setup. The going high/low setting depends on what ignition drivers you are using, cranking dwell about 6ms and running dwell 1-3ms depending which works.
Sorry, like what specific hardware/circuit. Trying to setup ms3 for a s52.
B Morris Currently we have KDFI plug and play megasquirts so I don't know :D But I'm also building ms3x for both of our e30. I have ISL9V5036P3 ignition drivers for those but I haven't yet looked how to connect those. Should be fairly easy. Gate to igintion output at ms3x card, drain to coil and emitter to ground
Ah thank you, keep up the good work on the videos!
Onko mahdollista vaihtaa vanha(ei flässättävä) ms41 uuten flässättävään ecuun? Onko johdoissa yms eroja?
Johan Nevanperä Voi vaihtaa. Ei oo eroa niissä.
Johan Nevanperä ews synkan tai poiston joudut toki tekemään.
Did you found the cause of ticking sound at dyno?
mohamed mostafa No. I haven't got time to even touch the car after I drove it in garage.
does anyone here have experience with the M44b19 engines ? do they take boost well ? what is the limit or weak point of these engines ?
m44 and m42 is basically m50 with 2 cylinder chopped off. So those are quite thought and first point to fail under boost is headgasket.
I am planning an e30 turbo for rallycross. there is a minimum weight but i would like all the weight in the rear. Max engine capacity with turbo is 2000cc. I would like a lightweight engine up front and gearbox and diff in the rear. 400hp is the target. alu m54b20 or M44b19? I'm affraid of twisting the block...
thanks for the quick response !
The block failures are not something that you will need to worry with bmw engines. For example m50 block will hold over 1000 hp without problems.
Ms41.0 ms41.1 which one of best?
Not much difference in those. Ms41.1 just has more emission crap and is obd2 compatible.
hey pazi my Load values are really unconsistent... if i floor it they jump between 40 and 500 but dondt increase linear... They just jump randomly and gives values that makes no sense... What am i doing wrong or what is broken ?
like this
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. . . ....
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Nico Nachname Could be that yor logger is not correctly saving the log file. Try enabling the "force us formatting" in logger settings
that fixed it... Thanks a lot !
Good video!
what do you think about the M52tu/m54 intakes? Have you tried one of those?
Those are better than m52 and m50 intakes. I'm going to fit m52tu intake to my e36.
pazi88 Please make a video about it when you're done.
I will. Unfortunately it will take very long. I will first need to get our e30:ies ready for summer. Then I can start working on my e36.
So the m54 intake would be better than the m50b25 intake that everyone always suggest for m52b28? I always wandered is the oem m52b28 single vanos intake so bad? I is really strong in low rpma but a bit flat at the high rpms (above 5k)?
I tried m50b25 intake, but big difference in the high rpm came after modding the already modes exhaust with X-pipe, right after the headers. This gave much better high rpm.
What is your opinion? I am speaking for m52b28 single vanos, stock valves, m20 flywheel, e34 m5 clutch, and custom exhaust (decat).
so what's the situation on m52tu intake? have you tried it?
can i swap and tune a ms41 ecu on a m50b25?
Yes if you swap ms41 wiring harness and sensors.
@@pazi88 ok but m52 have some extra sensors
so how about M54 ?
www.ms4x.net/index.php?title=Main_Page
Tuleeko millon jatkoo siitä sun vitos sarjalaisest?
Kunhan kerkiän vielä airbag vian korjata.
Last time I was this early I thought I understood Norwegian...
what
Nice video’s pazi..!! Bro If I send you my logs can you make a tune for me..? We can do it with mail If you want
For stock and almost stock engine is not worth for you to pay me to tune the engine. You can do it easily by yourself.
Its not stock, m50 intake mod with cai between bumper. Stainless headers with decat stainless exhaust. Good intake and exhaust. New vanos unit also
Abdullah Demirkan So almost stock. Just do the ignition tuning as I did in my previous video and it will be fine. You need vanos tuning with non-stock cams. No fuel tuning needed because it's MAF based. Only with bigger injectors or MAF.
And when I give the car more fuel the maf ganna set it back.? Correction?
No. You need bigger cams and/or displacement to run out of MAF and stock injectors.
Cool. Translate to russia please.
I don't know russian :D Only english.