Liechtenauer's Zettel - Ep 9 | The 5 Cuts
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- čas přidán 3. 04. 2020
- Due to social distancing I'm going to make a series going through the verses of the Zettel for my students to use as a reference. The Zettel is the series of cryptic verses written by Johannes Liechtenauer to his students(1400s). It would become the foundation of the German combat system lasting over 200 years.
In my opinion the Zettel and the treatises from it are a series of advanced techniques written for people who can already fight with a sword. Therefore these videos as well are not made to be an in depth trainer for beginners but just going through the idea behind each verse.
These are my interpretation at the moment but as we develop, grow and learn, ideas can change. Feel free to disagree with me and try out other interpretations. My goal is to make very short and precise videos for one or two verses. Because of this there will be lots of information and details that don't make the cut. - Sport
Everyone else starts off with the master cuts but knowing the concepts behind the cuts before the master cuts really helps digesting the information
I've found it useful to teach the master cuts with the strong/weak hard/soft paradigms, explaining why they work and also explaining their timing as versetzen; why they're used in the vor. Otherwise they tend to get stuck on using them as reactions when attacked, sticking to some plan they had in their head and running on a script even though they should be reacting with nach techniques.
There's a bunch of different ways of achieving the zornhau, which makes it surprisingly deep despite being the most peasantly of strikes. A somewhat funny parallel to the zornhau is the Japanese Ono-ha Itto-ryu's concept of the "kiriotoshi", which they teach as the first technique, which is a sort of zornhau ort, but also their "final" and "ultimate" technique. They claim that you can kiriotoshi any cut or thrust, which kind of does make sense. But they describe it using words such as "my sword is more alive than yours" and "the bigger circle devours the smaller circle", so it comes off super esoteric and nonsensical.
As for the krumphau, I generally go off on the belief that Fiore was a student of Liechtenauer's, but shuffled things around just enough that people wouldn't instantly realize, so when I look at his Breaking of Thrust I see it as potentially how he was taught the krumphau, so I assume that rather than aiming for the hands or head, it's going for the extended blade. But the Ochs, but using it and facing it, are still my weakpoints so I'm not a 100% sure on that theory.
I have an alternative interpretation for the early source Zorn (this doesn't apply to Meyer's Zorn). I'd be interested to hear your thoughts.
Rather than a diagonal stroke designed to overpower the line from more vertical Oberhauen, a useful interpretation I've found is to treat Zornhau as a regular Oberhau, but reaching full extension in a lower hanging, instead of longpoint like a regular Oberhau. In this way, it can dominate the centerline, due to the structural weakness of a stroke passing through longpoint.
That is a good observation. I don't see those as mutually exclusive. The zornhau ort is the concept, not one specific thing. There's rarely a catch all position. The Zornhau, we know, is a regular cut. It's stated as the peasents strike in the old sources. The zornhau ort is one tactical use of that cut. Absolutely it works well in the hanging, but it also works in longpoint, and the grey in between. I actually just made a video that talks a bit about this. The purpose of these verses is to teach, and here it teaches us about the centerline. czcams.com/video/CV8JmMS7T24/video.html&lc=Ugwt2b6u0vNt5Ys0RCd4AaABAg
In one of the old sources it actually specifically says in the zornhau gloss: Strike THEN shoot to the long point. Meaning clearly you were not in longpoint already, and the hanging theory works well with that. And is effective when you step in aggressively (or they did) with their attack.
But if you misjudge distance then your cut doesn't threaten and they may change through. Or when they cut they caught your weak and blew through. So then Longpoint may have saved you then.
Good question and thoughts.
Greetings! I have some trouble translating the sentence that starts 1:46, "Liechtenauer wants us using these five cuts..." Would you mind type the full sentence? Appreciate!
Ah yes that one is fast. Here you go! "Liechtenauer wants us using these 5 cuts as our parries, as opposed to commoner parries, or cutting into the sword. All these cuts can be used to hew, thrust and slice. So practice using them as such."
@@superiorhema Appreciate your help!