Nikon Z6II + Atomos Ninja V. Is shooting 10-bit N-Log worth the hassle?
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- čas přidán 28. 07. 2024
- A real world analysis of the Nikon Z6II paired with the Atomos Ninja V and real world comparisons from my work as a freelancer. Is shooting 10 bit N-Log worth it?
Settings I used to set up Ninja V:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=0vqyo...
Affiliate links to support the channel:
MY MAIN CAMERA (The Nikon Z6II): amzn.to/3sjChga
NINJA ATOMOS V: amzn.to/3xyodSu
THE BEST NIKON PRIME LENS (35mm 1.8S): amzn.to/31fTBa6
THE LENS I SHOT THIS ON: (20mm 1.8S): amzn.to/36oJeDk
MY DRONE: (DJI Mavic Air 2): amzn.to/2NVt0Ms
Chapters:
0:00 - Introduction
3:39 - Overview of Categories
4:19 - Test 1: Talking Head | Artificial Light
5:00 - Test 2: Talking Head | Complicated Light
5:47 - Test 3: Talking Head | Outdoor Light
6:42 - Test 4: Interior Real Estate B Roll
7:33- Test 5: Exterior B Roll
8:23 - Final Thoughts & Analysis - Zábava
I noticed in 100% of shots with strong lighting that the 8 Bit was overblown in the white areas, and the 10 bit retained definition without getting overblown.
The 8 bit looks really good. Nikon’s colors are excellent. The 10 bit does look better. The dynamic range and tonal gradations are easier on the eyes and look closer to real life, bring you into the footage a little more in most of the comparisons.
(Apologies for the music playing into the conclusions for about 5 seconds - MY BAD)
felt like 30 s
First of all - thanks for making this video. From a creator to a creator - it is a lot of work. Big thanks - I have been looking exactly for a non-scientific video on this topic. Second - I'm watching on a 5k monitor and actually prefer the 8-bit look for indoor. The 10-bit outdoor looks closer to Canon and Fuji. For the real estate shots, I don't think 99% of clients will be able to tell the difference (nor they care) about the 8-bit vs 10-bit. It's only people like you and I who are more curious about this topic. So.....in conclusion... time to process the videos and data storage for me "for now" is more on an 8-bit side. Again - thanks for taking the time to make the video comparison. Btw, I shot the Z6II on my channel and so far happy with what comes out of the Z6II.
Hey man! Sounds like this video was exactly for you. I've had the benefit of bringing the Atomos out on a few client shoots now and I'd say most of the conclusions I make in this video are exactly the same and I totally agree - most clients would never be able to tell the difference.
The ONE caveat I will add is that the 10-bit does REALLY shine in complex lighting scenarios. I was filming in a church recently that had wild mixed lighting (flourescents, stained glass, skylights) and having 10-bit really saved my bacon in there. Those colours would have been unsalvageable in 8-bit.
That said, it's so specific and I think, for now, the Atomos will mostly stay at home.
Yes, the 10-bit N-log has a better dynamic range, BUT instead of complicating my life as a videographer, I simply put a polarizing filter on the lens. Gone are the clipped highlights and I'm even rewarded with rich colors and beautiful, warm skin tones in Portrait Mode. On a bright, sunny day, with Active D-Lighting set on Normal, I get almost no shadows in the eye sockets (otherwise I just switch the setting to High). (Video-) I know that grading and change of look is almost impossible with 8-bit files but I don't need it - colors are great right out of the camera.
Thanks for sharing this, great information.
Do you have any place that i can see your videos? I jsut want to see how the CPL helps so much? and With the Active D lighting the problems is that you may see noise in those dark areas.. I am using Z6ii BTW and was using D5500 before. I am jsut learning video making.
Great video man! If I could just make a suggestion, be careful with the music when you're doing voiceover. In the last chapter of this video it is very difficult to hear what you're saying with the music being so loud in comparison. That said, it was nice to see your take on 10bit. Thanks!
I noticed the same thing on my Amazon Fire TV but when I watched it on my iPhone the voiceover was fine. It was the last couple of minutes at the end when the VO was too low on my TV. So Darrin didn’t mess up the VO at all.
It was the same with me. Background music was to high in that section.
The shot inside the room with windows in the background really shows off the difference with the dynamic range, you can see the background with no clipping on the 10-bit. My personal experience is that dynamic range is the most important factor in making footage look cinematic. I am sure when you get more practice color grading a flat profile that you will enjoy it more. For wedding photography you will have more options in creating different looks without the footage breaking up on you.
Great video, man! I can definitely see the differences in the highlights. There wasn't enough evidence to speak for the dark spectrum but I'm sure it will be very similar. This is exactly the kind of content I look for on CZcams when I'm in the market for something! Thanks for sharing brother. Great work!
Absolutely awesome video! As a nikon shooter myself, your video makes me want to try using my z7 for video
Most of the content we agonize over is consumed on an iPhone.
Wow I’m actually loving the nlog footage and It’s mainly the dynamic range difference. You are retaining the highlight detail whereas the 8bit clips every time
Wow. That was enough to convince me that the 10 bit is worth it for what I want. The difference in the talking head segment between 8 and 10 bit was surprisingly significant to my eyes. Thanks for the video.
Great video !! Thanks for sharing…
Yes, I can. 10 bit is way better imo. It seems to have far more dynamic range. Good video!
Thanks for the video man! I think it really highlighted the strengths of N-log. The 8-bit is solid and extremely usable but it was only comparable to N-log in favorable lighting conditions. The N-log will always be better in situations with big dynamic ranges, which is was designed for. I think your video also addresses a good question on data management, and choosing the right tool for the job. Side note, I thought the N-log was better for the wood in your room. The 8-bit was too red for me.
I always thought 10bit nlog is more about colors, not DR, but looks that i could be wrong
Very informative
Thank you!
This was a great contribution to Z filmmakers, thank you. I'd be curious to see the (possibly negligible) differences if you shoot 4k 8bit delivered in HD vs HD 10bit N-log. Overall the 8bit footage looked great, a bit more rosy a hue to the highlights and skin tones but not unpleasant. In fact its something that could easily be gently adjusted in post without the footage falling apart I would guess. Did you modify the Flat Picture control or use Active D-Lighting at any point in 8bit? Thanks again.
Nice comparison and makes the differences clear. Would a test with less light be interesting to see the 10-bit capabilities?
Bonjour, Thank you for your feedback very interesting. Have remarked that the switch on/OFF is very hard to turn to ON position compared to ON position ? Thank you
I have the first Z6 and if I recall, internal recordings are downsampled from 6K while externally it's just a direct 4K feed. I noticed that when it comes to noise, the internal footage is a bit less noisy cause of this. Is the Z6II doing the same thing? Or did they figure out how to downsample the external footage from 6K?
Can I ask for your real estate shots (parallax over couch), was that gimbal or slider being used? Pretty smooth if it's handheld
I noticed better dynamic range for sure on the 10-bit as expected. The color grading adjustments you can push them further. But the question remained, is it worth it all the xtra work and HD space? My opinion would be depending on the project and the client.
I doubt if 10 bit has a role in my future. Took first videos of a neighbour’s child getting a swimming lesson with basic Z6ii and no colour grading. It was excellent. Beginner’s luck? It will be a long time before I feel limited, I believe. Still, the Ninja sure is a nice bit of kit!
new to video, but the 10 bit does look a little better in some scenes. thanks for the video, I also have the Nikon Z6II.
If you shot continuously for an hour. What how big are your file sizes? over a TB?
Hi. 2 years on, i've accidentally discovered this video. Thank you for making it. Do you still shoot with the Nikon z6ii?
I think being able to do 4k30 (4k/60 for z6 ii) with ProRes Raw with Atomos is enough of a reason for me. But Nikon's color science is fantastic, reasoned i switched from Sony Fx3 to Nikon Z6 (- sounds like a downgrade, I know.. and it's a z6, that I got, not even a z6 ii).. I don't think client would know or "know" to know the difference because they know your work and your work speaks for itself. But if you were to give them two versions (i am not sure if you had done this), and ask them which one they would like the most, or looks better to them.. I think the answer might surprise ya. (or might not).. But seeing both comparing side by side, yes there is obvious differences - in control lighting scenario (indoor)-the difference seems insignificant (I would probably like the 8 bit better from just the look of it), but Outdoor, the 10bit with Atomos appears to be more confident and higher quality, more professional footage IMHO. Great Review btw! Just subscribed!
Hey Darrin, I have the same set up as you, and recently upgraded my z6ii to prores raw. Seemed like a good idea. Those files are great, but huge and most of the time unnecessary. Tried selecting ProRes 422, for smaller files, and my Ninja won't allow me to record in 422, wants me to stick to raw. I'm not a massive techy, wondered if you had experienced similar? Dumbass from the UK. Nice vids mate. Thanks
I got the z6ii for photography. I use my fuji xh2 for video and an A7iv (i dont own the A7iv its acwork thing). But I've been testing flat profile (adjusted with contrast, sharpness, and sat all the way down). I like the results, but to really push color grading, I wish log was available internal. Not a big deal for me. I bought this for its low light and speed for photo work.
8 but colours are warmer … I mean it can be graded … but for 8 bit … I think it’s great… lovely video
Yeah, the flat profile definitely tends toward warmer tones. Thanks!
Nice test. Due to the file size this would not be worth it for me who is a pure hobbyist. 8 bit is not that bad for some random travel clips or family gathering clips. For pros 10 bit makes sense, if you can take advantage of it.
I’ve been struggling with Nikons 10bit n-log. Any real estate stuff I’ve done the grain in the shadows has been unusable. Found that you need to overexpose by 2 stops with any indoor footage. Had to buy Neat De-Noise plugin to try to fix a lot of footage I couldn’t retake. Overall haven’t been very happy with the 10-bit n-log and have gone back to 8-bit flat for most of my footage.
It looks good outside as you can work with bringing the highlights in the sky to get richer sky’s and shadows but indoor it doesn’t seem to be with the risk of crazy noise in the shadows if the lighting isn’t perfect.
Would love to see the client photos!
Are you lowering the contrast in the flat profile settings and are you using active delighting? Or are you just using a flat profile with no additional settings?
I was going to ask the same question.
Hello from Panama, since youtube only broadcast up to 8 - bit is not possible to really watch the difference. Of course 10-bit is better, you can down it to 8 but you cannot get 8 up to 10. I own a Nikon Z 6, I heard about Z6 II or Z7 are not as good like Z6 form filming. May you comment ?
Trying to decide if the atmos ninja v is worth getting to use with my Nikon z6 for RE videos. What do you think the biggest difference has been for you using the ninja?
Hey! I actually ended up switching to Sony a few months after this video but I can say after shooting pretty extensively in SLog vs NLog, it's a SUBSTANTIAL difference so long as you are monitoring properly and shooting correctly into the camera. I can't imagine going back to those 8-bit Nikon files vs these Log files I'm working with now.
Seems like a middle ground for easy grading could be to shoot Flat-Profile external in 10bit on the Ninja, and just avoid N-log if not needed.
Nice 20mm lens you have!
Hey by any chance are you able to get the 60fps on the z6 I to
Work with the ninja ?
Hey - sorry, I actually never tried the Z6 with the Ninja so I can't comment on that unfortunately.
make custom more flat profile for your 8bit
Hopefully Nikon will let Z6ii use 10bit internal just like Z9🙃
I feel it looks like comparing jpgs and raws files
Z6 shooting real estate videographer here. I came super close to buying blackmagics version last month. So I watched with interest. Yep I think I prefer the 8 bit colour too. Hey I'm curious: z62 has dx crop in 4k 60 doesn't it? But those shots you did internally looked pretty wide. What lens are you using?
Hey! It's so funny you mention that - I typically do my real estate work in 1080P (they're usually just social media vids for the realtors so no need for 4K) but last week had my first client request 4K and DIDN'T KNOW that it did the DX crop at 4K and shot the whole thing going "man this feels a lot more zoomed in than I am used to..." and then got home and realized what had happened.
Anyways - I shoot my real estate work on my Z6II + 14-30mm F/4 combo. I find 14mm to be a little TOO distorted unless I'm in a really tiny place so I usually keep it at 16mm - and then just a fun fact, it's about 21mm if you're shooting the 4K/60 combo which HONESTLY, was really nice too.
@@DarrinRigo yep I use the 14-30 too. I tend to shoot 4k so I can zoom in post (I used it a lot). I master in 1080. I've got a real estate Channel but I don't post to it much...
czcams.com/users/RealphotographyAu
colors of the 8 bit look nicer, the 10bit has better high light recovery for sure
the most benefit of Z6ii with Ninja V is shooting beyond 30min. I shoot a lot of conferences and the speakers all like to talk more than 30 mins
10bit wins in the comparison shots. Nice work.
I really like the focus help with Ninja V. Yes the z6 has the same feature, but it is nicer on the Ninja V. I really do not like the amount of storage you need to work with the Ninja V. My work is basically just social media and for my church. Nothing super high end.
can you shoot 4k 60fps N log
I'd have to double check to confirm this but yeah, I believe you can at a crop.
Can you folks tell the difference?
Thanks for the vid…. Curious, was the exposure the same on 8bit vs 10bit? I’m using the atomos with the OG z6 and I have to bump the ISO if shooting N log or take off any ND filters. It’s almost like the low light capabilities are thrown out the window when shooting N log. Did you experience this at all? Thx.
Except for the one 8-bit outside clip, the rest were fine for RE and probably most corporate work. Yeah noticeably more dynamic range in 10 bit but expect not enough difference to the “average” eyes to go there for all but cinematic stuff imho. As one commentator said, an overwhelming % will only be seen on a small screen.
BTW, The voiceover problem was noticeable on my Apple Fire TV but when played on my iPhone, it sounded fine. I was so disappointed I couldn’t hear your conclusions but then was really happy to find the VO was spot on, on the phone. Then when played again on the Fire TV after the iPhone play, the balance was perfect. Not sure what that’s all about but it turned out a happy ending.
And thanks for the video! Very informative and scientific enough!
nice vedio
I'd say the 10 bit looks more professional
This is all based on how you treat each one in post. For the money and storage considerations AND the most important, what is the actually project, the key element is the project itself is not comparing so the point is moot. Once the project is being played the 8 bit is fine. It's up the the choice of lens and shooter to determine the outcome, not the bit rate. If the budget is bigger and more at stake and specs matter, then fine. But if the budget is limited, why bother? That's the real answer to the choice.
Yea, 10bit has better highlights.
Beautiful house by the way.
Totally - I actually just finished my first commercial shoot project (since this video was filmed) using 10-bit and definitely have more appreciation for its DR.
And thanks man!
The dynamic range is waaaaay better on the 10-bit
Totally agree - I have done some shooting since this video that gives me a greater appreciation for it.
@@DarrinRigo Can you do a video teaching how to color grade with N-LOG?
Hi man, thanks for the video. I'm praying I'm wrong but I'm 99% sure we cannot shoot 10 bit when recording in 60 fps, it's limited to 8 bit internal. When connected to the Ninja V, it assumes we're recording in 30 fps. I am hoping it is possible to be able to gain access to 10 bit 60 fps 4k via a firmware update (anyone know if this is possible?). Curious, did you record at 60fps 4k into the Ninja and slow it to 24fps in post? If yes, then that would be WOW!. With all that said, I am very pleased with 8 bit. I've done color grading and you have a lot of freedom when filming properly exposed in a flat profile and assuming you aren't going for an extreme cold grade (say Matrix look perhaps).
With all that said, I think the Ninja V is ABSOLUTELY worth it, for access to an external hard drive, larger monitor, 10 bit, and false color monitoring.
Hey Gino!
Yeah, I don't think you can do 4K 10-bit 60FPS. You can do 4K 60 8-bit internal HOWEVER it does crop in to DX mode (something I learned the hard way on a recent real estate shoot). You can shoot 1080 10-bit 60FPS.
Yeah that’s the dealbreaker for me I want to shoot 4K 60p with no crop. I really wanted to like the Z6 because I own D750 and D810 with many Nikon lenses so it would be more cost effective do go that path. I’m also in the real estate and been using my Nikons for film. What I miss is more options when it comes to tweaking the colors. I’m pretty stuck with how I white balanced etc. I guess raw is the way to go but I don’t look forward to the file sizes. My old iMac 2015 will probably have a hard time as well. Thanks for the video.
@@CPSWEDEN you should try BMPCC 6k pro BRAW have more flexibility. but its a S35 sensor not FF. or BMPCC 4k with Metabones speed booster which gives you closer to the FF view.
@@JaspreetSinghArtist Hey thanks for the reply! I have placed an order on the new Z9. I have too much money in Nikon glass and the Z9 seems to be a beast.
Hey, what do you think about 10 bit flat profile vs 10 bit log? I just started toying with this approach while using the Atomos.
Interesting……I’ve been shooting my whole life, 35+ years, and now recently diving into youtubes. I’m curious about my 🇨🇦ZED😜6ii potential so I’m here. I’ll probably never get this deep into the camera’s potential but my whole 1st thought as soon as I clicked is……where’s the 2160. Why only 1080? Ive been a heavy utub consumer for years and 1080 always looks fuzzy, no pop, now that 2160 is more common place. Am I a consumer minority? Don’t pple want higher rez? Or is it all phone consumption and 1080 is good enough? (not by my mid 40s eyes lol) I’ve been creating at 2160 as much as possible, is it a waste?
Is this all just personal creative preference?
I own a Z6, but with the 20 videos I shot during my two years of owning it. I can’t justify the cost of half of my cameras worth to film in 10 bit. Everybody watches videos on smartphones anyway.
Totally fair, Koen. I think for me, 10-Bit is less about what the viewers notice and a bit more about giving myself some room to make mistakes (more dynamic range and colour capture) and add some style (grading Log vs Flat is way easier). But I totally hear you - you as a viewer could never tell.
That desk fan looks insufficient.
The colors weren’t matched well
IMO Music too loud compared to your voice
My video's never look this good :(
test 2 , 10 bit more details, test 5 10 bit obvious better colours
Mejor Sony a6400 sin necesidad de 🥷.
To be honest like a lot of videos done with the Ninja V and the Z cameras the colour grading is not good in my opinion it has a green'ish tint, skin tones are pretty bad not accurate to how the skin looks I know that not even close. The 8bit looks better, skin tones are better and there's more sharpness to the whole video images. I have seen a few 10bit videos done with the Z6 and Z6II with the Ninja V that haven't been colour graded the people have just used 10bit 422 Pro Res and have turned log off as far as I can remember and those videos look excellent. I would guess and say if you're a top professional at colour grading then the videos can look good, if you're not one of the best at colour grading then it's best to turn off log. I would say there asre very few CZcamsrs who seems to be absolute masters at colour grading and the rest that try and colour grade nearly all seem to make the cameras and external recorder look poor quality. Sorry. Here's one video that shows excellent colour grading and general editing as it's amazing image quality and sharp too : czcams.com/video/szxGtenTbdc/video.html and in this video the guy did no colour grading he just used the Nikon Log to Rec 709 LUT : czcams.com/video/A9hGBd3rJzg/video.html
What I’ve found out recently is that the Nikon lut is absolutely TERRIBLE when compared to Sony or Canon
Yeah, I definitely would recommend looking into using one of the LUTs from the subreddit. The actual NLog LUT from Nikon is crazy oversaturated and just bananas exposure.
Ill probably use it in my non payin client.
Oh wait, they all are my fam so they dont pay me any. Lol
Seriously, my dark side will make me use 10bit
The N-log looks lifeless, looks to have a smoky green color cast, lacking midtone contrast, lacking punch and has much added noise from the high ISO... Looks like all negatives and no benifits.
Are you talking about the uneditted n-log? If so you don't know how n-log basically works. It needs to be edited to bring out the colours and detail. n-log basically captures as much light data as possible so it can be editted. basically a video raw file. The n-log approach increase dynamic range and improves detail. You only need n-log if you want to increase your colour grading detail and to be more creative.
You could've got to the point a lot earlier. You kept repeating the same questions in different modulations again and again! Kind of frustrating listening to it. No offence intended.