Suppressor Science: Pistons
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- čas přidán 27. 06. 2024
- Welcome to Suppressor Science! The video series where we explore anything and everything that has to do with suppressors.
EP 02: Pistons
Find out everything you wanted to know about pistons and more! - Sport
Anybody else amazed by the amount of movement in frame of the Glock near the muzzle at 5.56 mins?
Holy shit that is crazy. I never knew that was supposed to happen?
This is why polymer frames Glocks and other such pistols are much more durable than alloy framed pistols. Alloy frames can experience stress fracture after several thousand rounds.
Yes, that surprised me too
Yes!!
I noticed that too almost looks like it’s coming apart!
That was probably one of the most professional fun videos I’ve ever seen with just the right mix of humour thrown in.
Very informative and easy to understand.
Thanks for stopping by and checking it out!
@@SilencerCo hi
What is your healthy way with piston or without piston?
I had no idea wtf a piston was, or why I had to buy it, but now, I understand. The slow-mo really helped!
Thanks guys!
Of course! Thanks for stopping by and checking it out!
HUGE help! I’m very new to the suppressor community and had no idea why I needed a booster/piston assembly for my handgun. My first instinct was that the guy at the store was just selling me crap I didn’t really need, but who am I to question the guy that deals with these things every day? Now I fully understand the physics behind WHY I need it. Thanks so much!! Now I just need to learn how to be more patient with the ATF’s approval process! 😂😂
"Here is a NON-NFA Maxim pistol"-BRRRRRRTTTTTT
700HpVette, ya he just slips that in there like it’s no big deal.
Omg that needs to be mine.
Non-NFA MAXIM .........must.......have
Product announcement video disguised as an educational video.
I don't understand how a suppressed, full auto pistol can be a non-nfa item? Or am I just missing the point of a joke?
@@mrmactknife "prototype" allows it in the same vein as the G18. It won't ever be sold in the U.S. but the semi auto version will. I'm sure it's a joke designed to invoke these questions sprinkled with jealousy....it worked.
Now I understand this so much better! I can more confidently choose the proper equipment I’ll need when I get my first suppressor soon.
I'd be interested in see a video explaining why some pistols will run with a suppressor out of the box no problem (like my CZ P10c) and others will not (Like my Sig P320c, had to buy fancy expensive recoil spring kit). Sound interesting to you. You guys make really interesting and good videos. Keep it up
The slow motion capability of the high speed camera and your explanation just saved me from making a mistake in my order of a suppressor. And your explanation was enjoyable. Thanks a bunch.
You guys make great videos.
We appreciate you stopping by and checking it out!
Thank you for this excellent explanation. This is exactly the information I was looking for to understand the additional parts I needed.
Thanks for explaining the piston, that helps me a lot understanding the need for one.
I tell people the booster/Nielsen device/piston allows the suppressor to float momentarily, freeing its mass from the barrel and slide just long enough for them to unlock properly and cycle the action.
That's a very accurate summary.
@@SilencerCo Its actually not, from a physics standpoint the pressure in the can is driving the barrel to the rear adding force to help the pistol cycle. It does not simply "decouple". Using terminology like "float" and decouple" denotes a passivity to what's going on. The pressure generated in the can and against the inside of the case actively push the can and barrel/slide away from each other aiding in cycling. That's why terminology such as "piston" and "booster" are used. Everyone assumes because the piston doesnt have a surface to act on that gas pressure isnt at play here. the reality is once screwed onto the barrel the breach face/case become the surface the gas pressure acts on. Boosters effectively turn a recoil impulse operated system into a gas operated one.
@@bikefreek and that is how you complicate a simple summary 😂
@@bikefreek Well then by that logic, you shouldn’t need the booster assembly at all. In fact, it should cycle better without the piston assembly then. If it’s the pressure in the can exerting force rearward against the casing and breech face, forcing the slide rearward, you’d have more pressure to assure cycling. But that’s not the case. It does in fact, de-couple the system. Kind of like a suspension strut on a car where the barrel/ piston would be the wheel and the car, the slide. The wheel is free to move independently from the car in one axis momentarily but also structurally supported in different axis. After the round leaves the muzzle, both the the slide and barrel move rearward together momentarily until they separate and the slide continues on its own while the barrel remains. Without a piston the force of the gasses rearward against the shell casing would have to move the weight of the barrel, suppressor and slide all rearward until it hit the locking block, then there would have to be enough momentum left in the slide to travel rearwards fully to properly cycle the next round. Some is also dissipated into the frame via the barrel hitting the locking block. On typical handgun cartridges, there’s just not enough initial force created to force all that mass rearward and have enough left over for the slide itself to continue fully rearward. I suppose if you had a hot enough round to create enough rearward force initially, it might work, but at the expense of lots of wear and tear on the other parts. It would be like driving a vehicle with no suspension and the wheel hubs directly mounted to the frame. It’s pretty much like a suspension for your barrel.
@@bradskis81 The pressure in the can cant push the breach to the rear without a booster... think of it this way, The case, barrel and booster "piston" are the piston and piston rod of a pneumatic cylinder. The can is outer tube. When the gasses pressurize the inside of the barrel and can the barrel is forced rearwards.... that force aides cycling. Why do you think terms like "piston" and booster" are used for them? It is NOT a passive system to simply allow the gun to cycle. It actively adds force to drive the slide and barrel back.
Excellent video with a great explanation and technical demonstration on a suppressor's functionality. Thank you!
Thank you for making a helpful video describing not only why you have a piston, but the actual physics of why. This has really helped me understand suppressors as a whole. Thanks again.
Happy help! Thanks for stopping by and checking out the video.
Wow! The bottom frame movement at the rail upon cycling. Incredible video.
OMG the running to weigh the slide was hilarious! Love that part😆
Excellent analysis! Thank you!
Outstanding informational. This cleared up some questions I had about an Omega 9k with pistol and PDW configurations.
in depth view of mechanics of the silencer, additional interchangeable parts.
awsome view
Thanks for the education!!! Very cool.
I want to see a full video on that full auto maxim nine
Where can I get one, ha ha. Probable out of my price range
Perfectly explained. Thanks
sure is nice to get this information that's backed up with video evidence from an authoritative source - this video pretty much answers all the questions I had about "that other thing" I'd need to get besides the silencer itself
Neat Prototype! And Reddot on the front, interesting, I like it!!
That was super helpful! Thank you for your work!
Thank you so much for this information!
This was really well produced. Thanks for the information.
LOL, good mix of fun and facts. Love how high-speed photography captures what would otherwise just be 'theory'.
Great video- answered so many questions
Excellent, excellent video. Very informative.
7:35, I need that in my life
Hello from Pasco County, FL. Thank you for the excellent educational video. Well done.
First, your videos demonstrating the mechanics are awesome!!! So many people/companies make claims about products and even if they show how they collected data, none compare to your videos. Great job guys! Now, how about expanding some of your videos to include: a) what happens on fixed barrels, b) with and without boosters, c) PDW/PCC guns, d) DI and gas piston guns? I know you must have a ton of high speed video collected. You probably have a fortune invested in that equipment. Again, great job! PS. I own a couple of your products but maybe did not appreciate the work until now.
Best video on this subject thank you!!
Best video ever explaining why pistons are important.
Love this series of videos...
How cool! Man, I love the slow motion video! The first time I’ve been able to actually see the bullet leave the barrel of a gun. The Maxim 9 is badass too.
Thanks for watching!
Great video. Informative and to the point with realtime examples. Subscribed.
Very informative. Thank you.
Great videos . The physics make sense for a booster
great video! great explanation of why it's important to use a piston on a floating barrel pistol.
it looks like the bullet has far cleared the suppressor muzzle before the slide action happens- have you ever seen a baffle strike when adding a fixed suppressor on a floating barrel (sans piston)?
Good ol Glock frame-flexx... gotta love it.
Outstanding explanation and video!
Interesting video would be either showing the differences in how the back pressure of a suppressor impacts a Direct Impingement rifle vs that of a piston system, or subguns(roller delayed blowback vs blowback).
Or maybe even just a larger video surrounding blowback, and how you test it when developing a new suppressor.
Great topic. We will add this to the growing list!
@@SilencerCo 👍
Ive always known why you use "pistons" but this helped understand why. Good video.
Great information.
Fantastic information
Very interesting...the science involved..interesting
Very informative!
extremely helpful thank you
Now that’s awesome footage!!! Thanks for sharing!!! 🦅🇺🇸🦅🇺🇸
Good info and excellent with the slo mo. I'd like to the difference between dry and wet firing.
This video was an excellent way to show how the piston functions, and how much it affects the slide movement on the graph. I never knew that the piston actually had that much action within the can fitting. Thanks a ton for this. Saved me a lot of headache, I was about to try direct thread on everything.
One thing I would like to know, if you run the piston on a fixed barrel, then run the direct thread adapter on the same fixed barrel, same ammo etc, how much difference in dB is there due to the extra volume in the direct thread case?
Excellent video, thank you for the education. Please can you do a video on the types of approach to managing the gases, cross flow, phase cancellation, turbulence and theory behind the "mouse hole" and "dater hole" with respect to cross flow. I'll be waiting patiently putting off chores until I see the video.
first video i foulnd, that did exactly what i wanted to see :) thx dude
Good to hear! Thanks for stopping by and checking it out.
love the video..........................!
5:59 didn't know polylower where this much sturdy!!!
Great slow motion explanation ...
Very excellent video, thank-you! I now understand why they are there and what it is they do. (Boosters or Pistons) I know very little about suppressors and the how's and why's so why is it ok to have a .45 caliber suppressor and install a piston with the thread size for a 9mm and shoot 9 through it? Does the suppressor work as well to suppress the sound or not?
Great video
Awesome channel...🇬🇧
Can't wait for that pistol to hit the market
It's when I really WANT 1 TO
That Maxim is some kind of crazy wizardry.
Nice video, I always wondered why pistols need a piston
Nicely done! If u taught this as a class I would sign up lol
look how much that guide rod and frame/rail wiggle in slowmo.. Holy Cow!
very cool
At 5:50 flex in the glock polymer frame at the front is surprising! Also shooter holds gun so low in hand he could get 'slide bite'!
Smart dudes!
i appreciate that you call it a silencer.... thanks
Fixed barrel 9mm: Walther CCP m2
A video on different baffle profiles and spacing would be interesting.
Love it.
When will the non nfa be out?
Excellent example of the Piston. Thank you! I have my first can, a Hybrid 46m, I am using the piston mount, with a 1/2 x 28 piston. I had issues. What is the benefit of what a XL piston would do? 1/2 x 28XL vs non XL?
Your graph showed velocity against time, with the velocity on the Y axis and time on the X axis. I think it would be interesting to see a graph of distance (slide distance traveled rearward) over time - i.e. the derivative of velocity, with distance shown on the Y axis, and time on the X axis. That way, the overlay of the 3 curves would indicate the retardation effect on the slide's actual motion, of the additional weight of the silencer, and the reduction of that weight retardation initially, as a result of the decoupling effect of the piston. Or even a slow-motion time-lapse 3 panel video with all 3 firings shown one above the other, so you could see the deceleration and reduced motion attributable to the additional weight, and then mitigated by the decoupling. Geeky, I know, but a picture is worth a thousand words. Interesting video!
Excellent video. Now, how to I configure my Omega 9k for a fixed barrel? I have your ASR mount and muzzle break...
I guess supressors are good for snipers. But going Rambo kicks butt. I want you to hear us. LOL!
I cant believe they discontinued the Octane line that was the best line of silencers for handguns. I hope the still warranty them.
Not only will we always warranty any product regardless if it gets discontinued or not, but keep your eyes open during shot show.
Now I know! thanks
What is the effect of booster spring rate on the slide velocity? I notice many of the commercial boosters I have tried use very stiff springs.
that pistol at 7:02 is SIIIIIIIIIIICK
I am curious about heavier recoil springs in suppressed pistols. Are they needed or recomended? Do some hosts and or caliber combo's need them more? I have heard of some manufactures include different recoil springs with there factory suppressor ready models. I know my Glock 35 with an Omega 45k seems to cycle smother and return into battery better with a 24lb recoil spring. It would be good to hear from someone who has more experience and data.
I wonder what the test results would be like if you install a heavier or lighter recoil spring ?
I just bought a Taurus G3 tactical, it came with a lighter spring and it didn't help. I also reload my own bullets. I tried going up to max powder and heavier bullets (147gr) to get more recoil. That didn't work either. I'm now waiting for my piston to come in the mail to go on my Hybrid 46, so my pistol will work.
How do you guarantee that the bullet exits the end of the silencer before the barrel/slide unlocks and the barrel tilts upward? Seems like you would get baffle or end cap strikes a lot.
Can you cover what happens if you use a booster setup on a fixed barrel PCC such as a Ruger PCC9 or lever action .357?
Question: if you are using the direct mount on a fixed barrel like cz scorpion, do you remove the spring or leave the spring? I don’t think you need it obviously from your demonstration but the space behind the direct mount is still there. Thank you.
I have the piston add-on. Can I also use it on a 1/2x28 direct thread fixed barrel? Or is the fixed barrel spacer required? What would happen otherwise?
Hey, cool video you guys nailed it a question I had about going to the fixed barrel! I also sent you guys a e-mail about a month ago asking why my silencer was not silent through my carbine and the answer you gave DID NOT NAIL IT. "1st thing is to try different ammo. JD" a little more detail would have been more helpful!
TRY SUBSONIC AMMO DINGALING
Back in the old days the military was experimenting with putting cans on 1911s. They had to mod the weapon so much that they engraved the weapon "DO NOT FIRE WITHOUT SILENCER ATTACHED"... Or similar text warning.
The .45 is such a perfect cartridge for running suppressed. The 1911 was not a very good platform.
I need to see this with a full auto Glock. How does it not baffle strike with that much movement if it’s rapid firing. Awesome video
"Memorizing" is a surprisingly good exercise 😂
The slide is slowed by the spring also. Is there a ratio to spring weights between the two?
That non nfa maxim with the sear is dope as f--k
are they doing this out in west valley? man i want to visit
That’s why I like my ij70 makarov the barrel don’t move when it’s recoiling.... to bad Iit don’t have threads tho lol.
My new cgs mod 9 suppressor appears to have problems with the piston spring...both ends have flaired out somewhat...its hard to assemble and the piston 'gears' do not engage.....so when I attach the suppressor, I can still rotate it by hand (not where you have to pull it out to make point of aim adjustments). Have you heard of this? Do springs wear out after ~300 rounds? is this a unique CGS problem? any advice greatly appreciated.
Anyone else surprised by the amount of flex and movement the muzzle end of the (I'm guessing polymer) frame was making in the slow motion video, pretty much everything past the trigger guard directly underneath the barrel? And that's even with the added reinforcement that i would assume that the built-in pic rail adds to that portion of the frame. Kinda crazy to watch but idk i guess it's polymer maybe that's silly of me to find that so shocking? I only bring this up because i most recently built a Glock 17 from a Polymer 80 frame and when milling out the little area for the front two legs of the enhanced locking block from ROOK Tactical, i went just a hair too deep, leaving a pretty large portion of that whole area directly in front of the trigger guard and underneath the front locking block pin to be nearly hair thin. As a result of this, the frame and slide has been sitting for a few weeks now in my garage and has never been test fired due to my concerns over the frame strength in that area and what might happen if it were to break while being fired. Seeing that in this slow motion video definitely doesn't inspire any more confidence in those fears I've had already...
is it normal for the piston to have a slight side to side play. like if you screw the can down all the way then turn it the opposite way the can will move a little bit before it starts unthreading from the barrel?
You could see at @6:00 that the guide rod HITS the piston. Does this cause wear? do you need to upgrade to a metal guide rod due to this??!
Great video, thanks. Question: if you put a suppressor on a 9mm PCC, do you need the booster?
You would need to either use a direct thread adapter or replace the spring on the piston with a fixed barrel spacer.
It's crazy how the front of the frame moves given the polymer flexing...