Why Women Are Quitting Their Side Hustle: Leaving LuLaRoe
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- čas přidán 21. 05. 2019
- LuLaRoe, a multi-billion dollar company that skyrocketed to success by attracting an army of women to sell their colorful patterned clothes is now facing numerous lawsuits calling the company a “pyramid scheme.”
Thousands of women who have bought into the LuLaRoe legging empire in hopes of getting rich quick has since left. We talk to three women about their experiences as LuLaRoe consultants and why they decided to leave the controversial MLM behind.
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I’m no fashionista, but those clothes look absolutely horrendous
So the only reason I know aout this company is because my girlfriend's sister in law always wore what i called "clown clothes", so one day I asked her, hey where does your sister in law buy her clothes at, and she laughed and said "Luloroe" and here I am. Everything makes so much sense now , everything lmao.
RIGHT!! lol
I was at a thrift store in Texas and saw a bunch of these clothes, brand new, in my size and got a excited until I got a closer look lol. The patterns were hideous and the fabric was super cheap quality. With the thrift stores deal the clothes would’ve ended up being $1-$2 a piece, brand new with tags, and I still didn’t want them lol.
Like golf clothes on acid.
This sounds terrible but they’re like bigger woman’s clothes!
As soon as they say, "It´s not a company, it´s a lifestyle", you know you´re in trouble.
Honestly!
It's not a job. Lol
100% true
Thats how Wework speak about their business.
"Its not a real estate company- we are a community"
It's not a company, it's a cult!
There was an adult film director on another LuLuRo video who said they used the leggings for costumes because they were so easy to rip!
I am going to hell for cackling so hard at this.
LOL!!!
I laughed so loudly that I scared my cats and one of them knocked over a soda can.
😂😂😂
At least there is some use for them... 😏😛😂
World's okayest mom looks like a great mom and friend. Good for her having courage to get out of this cult!
Roberta seems like a very good human, glad she got out.
A good friend??? How many of her friends did she screw over to make all that money? She's just very good at projecting the image of a good and caring friend. None of it is true.
She has her own CZcams channel and podcast : Roberta Blevins. She’s an asset to the anti-MLM movement!
@@ykMMD We forgive corporate monsters who've done so much worse, she's learned and deserves forgiveness and empathy. I also didn't see an indication she made much money in particular. And now she's trying to get other victims OUT.
I’m listening to her on Leah’s Scientology podcast right now
the real victim is my eyes because the clothes are hideous
😂😂😂😂truth
I think hipsters would disagree with you
I know that's right!
May they Rest In Peace. At goodwill where they are destined to sit until they end up at auction being sold by the pound.
Monica Archer 😂🤣😂
Am I the only one that thinks most of the clothes look really ugly..?
Right! The shit people buy.
Kekistani Goddess I agree. But, I think some of the print/patterns aren't so bad, it's just the color combinations are really ugly.
It's like scrap on aliexpress
Most of the clothes are hideous but they have a few really cute pieces. They do that on purpose so people would spend spend spend spend hoping to get a "unicorn" (rare, cute piece). Consultants can't pick out what clothes they get so they spend thousands of dollars on a box of leggings and just hope that it had a "unicorn" that they could sell for massive amounts of money and earn it back.
It's like real life loot boxes
Shannon Griffin Yeah, real life loot boxes full of mold and holes 🙄
I felt so bad when they hammered the "for sale" sign and she started crying. I hope she and her family recovered and are living happy.
Seriously tho... that hurt my heart 💔
Always remember where you come from and always live within your means
Yeah but what the hell did she do with her money
@@millsykooksy4863 LuLaRoe kept pestering her to spend her money and share it on social media. Like cars, clothes, flights, jewelry, etc. From her doing that they benefit from the potential victims to crave for the luxury life. And unfortunately, she listened not knowing it would send her to losing her house.
@@millsykooksy4863 did you not watch the video? It explains everything, in detail, about where all the money went. Where it had to go. Perhaps these women were naive, and probably didn’t use very good judgment, but so what. Nobody deserves to be treated like they were/are. The company’s owners are absolutely disgusting people, to be able to use someone’s new-found circle of friends, and happiness in order to manipulate them into doing the company’s bidding. Hopefully these women were able to repair their lives, and find peace after all they’ve been through.
Woooow those leggings were $50 a piece?! Insane! The patterns too busy, they’re giving me a migraine.
Some of those patterns are like bad acid trips! Fugly to the extreme!
Yessss those designs are God awful
So crazy, you’d get a killer pair of leggings from Nike or Under Armour for $50
These are cheap chinese factory leggings. At a local warehouse you can get them for 3 dollars piece and if you buy loads from the factory it's like 1 dollar per piece.
God I saw better leggings much cheaper than this, on freaking street markets!
The real scam is these woman being tricked into thinking those clothes look good...
Right.
hahahaha exactly
omg i knowwwww
These look like the clothes I wore in 1996 when I was 5 years old
Agree
You aint the seller you're the buyer. These companis don't care who you sell it to cause they've already sold the product to YOU.
Mickey jay XXXACTLY!!!!
It *is* a pyramid scheme then.
Bingo!
Exactly
Nailed it.
I was a retailer from 2016-2018. I felt every ounce of these stories, to my bones. While I never reached Mentor, I was sucked in and even on the small scale, made to feel the same ways. So I made a BUNCH of money, but I spent it all as I went. I wasn't smart enough to save, because it was like this HUGE thing that never felt like it was going to end. In the end, I left with more debt than I started, and am still dealing with it in late 2021.
I wish I would have done things differently, but I don't wish I would have never done it. I gained a lot of confidence in myself during that time, and learned that I can do a lot more than I think I can. I just don't apply those new found attributes to pyramid schemes anymore.
I’m glad you got out of there queen!! Here’s your crown 👑
@quotetheraven90 I don’t know how you can lodge that accusation at her. I don’t think you accurately read her comment
that's one thing all ex cult members say, whatever the group was, everyone agrees that you realized you are capable of working harder than you ever thought possible.. not that it is healthy to work that hard, especially when you are doing it for your upline or your cult leader
That’s sad. I can’t imagine losing so much. And here I am mad I spent all my unemployment money flying to Miami and partying. At least I’m not in debt
Maybe you should contact Roberta Blevins (she’s on this video and has a podcast) and share your story?
The sad thing that isn’t talked about with MLM’s is that these women are clearly talented sales women and entrepreneurial. If only they could utilize that talent for their own small businesses or projects instead of for these thankless scam companies. It’s sad that they only saw their own potential in LulaRoe.
That's a really good point!
They were Never smart women, basically uneducated. Get Rich Quick mentality. No critical thinking there.
When you give a company money for a job, you are a customer not an employee.
LetsSmash007 so many people fall for this ....
While I agree with this message, businesses also have to purchase goods to sell to make money. With that said, this is a pyramid scheme in order to make real money instead of buying into a franchise.
Stacey Cole thank you captain obvious. The only business here is Lulaxxx, by the motion of paying bonuses, the person is not a business as well. The person is an employee. Do we know any person joining a MLM then forming their own LLC? This would be two distinct businesses. See when Lulaxxx changes policy, you are the employee. If Lulaxxx changed policy causing a breach of contract between themselves and another businesses then litigation commences. So much more to explain here. Just a short bit.
I wish all the #Bossbabes that constantly post on FB and IG about owning their own "business" would realize this.
Bonnie Howell thank you. I fucking HATE these stupid terms...girl boss, boss babe, lady boss bullshit. It makes my skin crawl when I see/hear these basic terms
Friends don't let friends join pyramid schemes. 💛
this! I lost a long time friend to Younique coz no one knew until she made a big speech on FB saying she was ‘starting her own business from home’ 😬 oh dear...she then FB messaged me their recruitment spiel and I unfriended her. her ‘voice’ was nowhere in the message, it was just copy and pasted “do you want to make money at home like me?....” NOPE!!
@@EvelynRobinson22
So Younique is another pyramid scheme huh?
I never even heard of them before but yet, I just typically go to the store in person and buy things.
they’ll deny that they are, but basically...you can only buy their makeup through ‘consultants’ and their set up is the same as most MLMs, you buy your “kit” and people order from you
@@EvelynRobinson22 What do you mean *"This!"* The op was promoting friend loyalty: "Friends don't let friends join pyramid schemes." You said you immediately "unfriended" yours when she joined one. How does your story relate to the op in slightest? That is the definition of a shitty friend is it not? 🤔
💯
Sadly my older sister was a victim of this. She had just graduated from college and was going through medical issues and she was so motivated to be a part of this! Sadly she now has over hundreds of pieces just sitting there! So sad to see how much debt she went in for it and is now still paying for it!
Sorry to hear that. If someone is stuck with that many, can they be cut into bits and sold in bundles for crafting? That's quite a popular product.
You have to brain dead to fall for one of these scams. Your sister should’ve known better smh
It’s really hard for me to feel bad for the woman that was making $50k bonus checks; she profited off of the financial ruin of countless women. She had to have known that pretty much everyone else was losing money, right?
Cognitive dissonance
Yup. She came from corporate management too, she knew what she was doing. She just didn't pull out cleanly enough.
She was selling to them . That's how business works
Did she truly make that though if they were requiring her to purchase "so much" of her own inventory? I may have understood this wrong but they were buying in with alot of their own funds.
I recognized the problems in the first few seconds of the video.....sad story
I feel like this says more about the isolation of modern motherhood than anything else
TRUTH
Sarah Hdgsklansjd Modern women expect motherhood to be entertaining instead of just hard and fulfilling work. These women are overgrown toddlers.
Motherhood has not always been isolation. It's only been in the least 30 years that empty houses have created the isolated environment.
Mother of 3, I never realized the stark difference between my mother's generation of stay at home moms and me working part-time. All the houses were empty in my neighborhood and I was stuck at home alone with 3 children with social media advertising everyone's "best life."
Back in the 70's /80s moms would have the summer to hang out with other moms who's kids are running the neighborhood or go hang out at the pool. Where now 40% of moms are full time employed, 20% part-time employed, and 40% stay at home. So those households that are at home, are mixed into neighborhoods that hopefully have other stay at homes but if they have no one in the area, that's isolation.
It's a very cold, gotta be Pinterest perfect, kids prefect environment, making 100k+ culture or you fail. If you aren't a perfect mom (which no one is!) Then social media only adds fuel to the fire and isolates EVEN MORE.
You are really right about that.
@@sevendeadlychins -BS
The thing I find so awful about MLMs is how they obviously target women looking for a sense of belonging. They don’t really sell clothes or whatever, they sell a dream to lonely women. It’s so predatory and sad.
is it more sad that they do it ..or more sad that these women fall for it. I fault the women ...they set back women's progress in society.
Sounds like K-Pop
@@stephanie8699 They were lonely and taken advantage of because of it. Also, no, lol.
@thedeadmemer multi-level marketing. aka pyramid schemes
Annie D I feel more it targets women who have children and struggle to work and look after kids.
They really push the flexibility of working with an MLM and target working mums and women on maternity leave.
I’m just now hearing about this company-if this is what suburban mom fashion looks like, then I’m staying in the city FOREVER 😭
I wouldn't worry, I think it's working class fashion.
Polyester.
@@c4715 where do they work dressed like that?
I live in the suburbs and u could not pay me to wear this crap
@@c4715 I am working class. No thanks
Ehh so hard to have sympathy for Courtney. Especially after watching her in the other documentary. She was fine setting women up for debt and failure until it started affecting her bonuses. She bought not one, but two brand new cars complete with lularoe license plates for hers. She cries about superficial and material things; "my husband wasn't there so I went out and spent $4,550 on this purse", "I'm fat and I need to have this surgery to be like them." She admits she would have done anything Deanne asked her to do, which says she was a butt kisser who thought she was in the inner circle. "We were told to live a lavish lifestyle and spend money to attract others"; that's right up her alley.
She also admitted she thought she was better than everyone else, and squandered even more money on a boutique. She would have still been in lularoe today recruiting if the bonuses hadn't changed. Never once has she expressed remorse for the women she victimized or the debt they endured. Everything's about her and she plays the victim.
Yeah... at least Roberta showed remorse and called her actions predatory...
Totally agree. She's like oh woe is me! The purse pissed me off lol
These clothes make Walmart's apparel look high end.
SacredFire oh yeah I’ve gone to Walmart and in some they are nice clothes I can even wear to work at an office.
SacredFire and Target is haute couture
That's quite an accomplishment
Let's face it; these are the sort of people that considerthe Costco food court as a suitable date night or anniversary place.
@@michaelhart7282 😂
ANY job that requires you to pay to work for them is a scam.
well I mean literally starting any business requires you to invest in capital so that's not a good measure of scam/not scam. Also franchises sort of work this way. You can own a baskin robbins if you buy that franchise in that location and then they give you the inventory. The difference is they make profit on their ice cream, not on recruiting.
@lil cucky, just have to be able to lick 21 flavors.
@lil cucky obviously theres a difference but my point still stands. There are scenarios where you pay up front to make money and its not a pyramid scheme
@lil cucky no you don't but you also aren't running the business as a cashier. The idea of these mlms is that you are running your own company with the assistance from the main branch. Which is similar to a franchise. So it isn't even a comparison to bring up cashiers. The problem with mlms like lularoe is the recruitment.
@@LipSyncLover Not exactly what he is highlighting there...
I'm happy all women in this video have very supportive family. They all implied wanting a connection and group of friends that support them, but when it fell through, their family was there to help them heal and move on.
The fact that the owner and co founder has the audacity to say that the employees and customers are “stale” should be more than enough to close the business down.
Every single employee and customer should sue him just for saying that. Bring him back down to reality
He’s also very dismissive of women and sees them merely as breeders and workerbees. It’s a misogynist company that makes money off of sexism.
Is he wrong?
Whenever you hear “Part-time work for Full-time pay” it’s a scam
😀😀😀
I make full time pay for part time work but I also went to school for it and didn't just give my money to someone for a shit useless product
There are direct sales jobs where you CAN make residuals and set your hours. MLMs are not that. A real job will not require constant fees from you, and don't depend on you entirely to acquire lead and hire more sales consultants.
ghostphoto the point is there aren’t many LEGITIMATE jobs that you walk right into and your making a full time pay with part time hours. EVEN in direct sales. It takes time, experience and knowledge to get to that place. The 234 people that gave this comment a thumbs up, understood what I meant. Just like “mineral” that commented above you, she’s doing it but she also went to school so that she can be in that position. There’s just no way around it. Get rich quick ideas generally don’t work. I run a HR Consulting firm. We do pretty well and I’m able to set my own hours but it took years of 60 hour work weeks before I got to this place.
@@nicoleblack5249 Yeah I agree. There are no get rich quick schemes. I'm starting my own business and even that requires a great amount of time and risk. I've lost a lot of friends to pyramid schemes.
I was just saying it is possible to have things MLMs advertise like residuals and bonuses in direct sales jobs. Except the difference is you actually make money in those jobs.
In sales jobs, the product is what the company is selling. In MLMs, the product is the "sales consultants" they trick into signing up, and the actual product is an afterthought.
The CEO doesn't even wear her own clothes
@Carrie Young
Ah, but that just means they're dog scarfs!
I'm all for optimism and being positive, but falling for this kind of crap is just stupid.
Seriously the "designers" have to deliberately trying to make the clothes that heinous.
When she was crying and even asked the man putting the for sale sign in her yard to thank the realtors for working with her, I lost it. I wish this company would crash and burn already for what they did to these women.
Agree that it's incredibly sad to see the pain of the women in this video. I watched the Amazon Prime 4-part series, "LulaRich", last night. The women sharing their stories in the Vice story and in the Amazon documentary should be acknowledged for coming forward to tell their stories about LulaRoe, but I have to wonder if some of the tears are also due to the realization by these women that they were part of the predatory pyramid scheme by receiving huge commission checks because they recruited others to "buy in" and perpetuate the cycle.
As much as the women interviewed were victims of the larger scheme created by the Stidmans, these women (as trainers, coaches and mentors) also perpetuated the scheme by recruiting others who spent their money to buy in and then essentially became the customers who funded the commissions for their up-lines.
The Stidmans should definitely meet their karma sooner rather than later, however the women who reaped the benefits of large monthly commission checks need to also face a reckoning.
Sameeee
She didn’t spend any of her 50k monthly commission on her mortgage? Where did all her money go???
@@pacwellness50 taking others out to lunch, driving fancy cars, and living lavishly to impress others for recruitment
I feel no pity for people who create their own problems. It's like banging your head on the wall and then bitching cause you got a headache
LOL I keep finding multiple lularoe dresses with tags, same dress in different sizes, in my local thrift shop. Now I know why.
When the mom in yellow mentions all the friendships that were ruined due to her leaving, I just want to grab her and tell her they were never your friends!!!
Hi 😊
More like shake her!
Same
I agree!
this is exactly what a sorority is i just realized
My mom (who was about 80 at the time) was right when she said " If everyone is selling, who is buying". She was right.
Right! My aunt has always said this same stuff and she was right!
That’s fantastic. Actually reminds me of an episode of Schitt’s Creek. Every woman in the entire town is a rep of a “mary Kay” type of business. And someone new to the town decides to join it as well, does a whole party, tries to sell the products, and yet exactly what you said is what happens- they’re all sellers, so there aren’t any buyers
Your mom was a smart lady ☺️✌️.
The weird thing is that I thought these would largely die out with the Internet (they have existed for decades). Pre-Internet you didn’t have instant access to all the great videos like this one to counter the MLM propaganda. But instead…they got bigger - I guess because there is always a new generation coming up.
Yeah it’s so strange to me that’s there’s these hugeeee conventions with all the sellers…. But no events for the buyers….. that would have been a huge red flag for me
God bless your mom.
I never understood how these companies managed to last until I worked at a boutique thar catered towards middle-aged suburban middle & upper class women (not an mlm lol) but those women were so manipulative & mean-spirited it was absolutely insane
Another MLM sign is that when you succeed, you are supposed to thank the company for giving you the opportunity. But if you fail, then that’s on you…you didn’t have enough drive, etc.
this scheme also highlights a growing loneliness epidemic... hearing all these women talk about how happy they became to have a “support network” of sisters that they were terrified of losing really saddens me :(
You might want to blame modern society or tech for this, then you remember the Yellow Wallpaper and realize that women have been stuck in quarantine like states for hundreds of years.
Edit: lot of likes? Apparently I wasn't the only one made to read that short story during school! Women have for a long time been kept caged like birds by societies expectations, that book always stuck w me as an example of the history of that struggle!
That's so true. It targets people who are vulnerable.
avuhhh you are right about loneliness. BUT These women Are like on drugs. On dopamine... Addicted From success.... It's Not soooo hard To find 1 or 2 good friends. Just Go out, Do sports. Or join a club....
@@TWHowl yellow wallpaper could hands down be the best s.s. ever written.
I think it's more about greed
Please be the start of a series. Expose senegence cosmetics, doterra essential oils, herbalife, scentsy...
Market America is another one of those pyramid schemes. $500 initial to join & $125 a month to stay in & sell their products. I quit 6 months into it. It's crazy how they can sell you the dream of success.
Arbonne
Classical Conversations...
Definitely investigate Younique and the Huns
I love how Thrive is attempting to distance itself from the negative connotations of tiered marketing since the Chris Watts murders
MLM's like this skirt the law around pyramid schemes by pointing to the fact that they actually sell a product. They do. And the proceeds from those sales go to the top .01% while everyone else makes nothing. It is a mathematical impossibility for everyone to make money. There aren't enough people on the planet. My ex sister in law and her husband were deep into Amway. I remember him saying "You're stupid if you don't join Amway." He would wear t-shirts that things like "It's hard to soar like an eagle when I'm stuck down here with the turkeys." They worhiped t heir "uplines" and talked constantly of going "diamond direct". 4 years later, with thousands of unsold products in their garage, they got out. They figured they'd spent 50,000 on product and sold a fraction of that. And this was the 1980's, so you could almost put another zero after that number.
Chester Wilberforce You have my sincere sympathy. It's just the worst ever to be invited to 'stop over' to someone's house for dessert, and see the flip charts waiting. :- ( "I think I feel Malaria coming on, 'scuse me."
Brought to you by the Church of Latter Day Saints, a much older MLM!
Just fill in the blank ……all churches are MLMs
@@Gorillafishing Exactly
Underrated Comment!!!
People laugh but it's really disgusting how these people prey on mothers and lonely women. I had a woman approach me and my baby daughter in a cafe having dinner . She was so friendly , telling me she and her husband were new to the area , she was looking for friends. She gradually starting asking me about my work and making money independently. She so casually tried to play me. It was wild
@It's Okay what's wrong with you? people with children can still feel lonely and can experience lonliness in different ways. you're just a bitter, sad person
Wasn't this what @oliviacarr was talking about?
Hey don't make me call Admiral Steve. Leigha!
uwu
4 years ago or so, a customer at my work asked me if I wanted a second job where I can work for him, he said he will write down the details, it was weird because I was looking for a second part time job at that time so I thought, wow, maybe my service or energy was so good where this guy wants me to work for him... maybe its fate? Anyway... he comes back to the counter and tries to casually explain this pyramid scheme to me and mentioned I would have to pay to start working. I was stupid at the time and didn't even know the term MLM but yeah, I told him I would be interested.
When the guy left, my boss and other staff gave me a heads up about how dodgy that is and not to fall for it. I'm so glad I avoided that whole mess. The way the guy worded it was quite clever though and I can see so many others falling for that bs.
I'm shocked at how many MLM's and pyramid schemes there actually are now and ones I have heard of before but didnt join the dots
All of this clothing looks horrid.
It is the ugliest crap to be so expensive. I'll get the same looking stuff at Dollar General for $6.99!
It's the suburban white mom starter pack
@@kingbradley8058 empowered*
December Sixx LoL it’s literally not dollar store bad 😂 they do have some good stuff
An eyesore to say the very least😳
I always thought all that clothing was hideous, and I know that $5K start up price would have ended any "consultant" idea I might have had, even if I did see clothing I really liked. I can, however, honestly see how these women got hooked on the community/family aspect of this scam. It's very sad.
This is relatively unrelated to the documentary itself, but when she said how much the Louis Vuitton charms cost I was stunned bc I used to work at the American branch of the costume jewelry company who produced those charms. They're pot metal (shitty zinc and aluminum alloy) plated in base metal, and cost less than $1 each to actually make, including what the laborers were paid
The way people will spend out the nose for a brand name, not a product, but a brand name, is ridiculous
It boggles my mind that this company was so successful to begin with, I have never seen uglier clothes in my life and they were made like garbage.
Apparently when they started, everyone was really excited because they were so soft and comfortable, and the "unusual" patterns were part of the fun of it. I didn't even realize it was a pyramid for a long time (never bought any, just saw the hype). But what the company did was really clever--in the scumbag way--they'd make very few of the popular patterns, and you couldn't just order them--you had to order a box of 50 (or whatever) and MAYBE the pattern you wanted would be among them. Just like loot boxes in video games. So that encourages the consultants to order more and more in the hope they can satisfy their customers . . . kind of brilliant, actually, if you are a company with the morals of a snake.
The buzzfeed article breaks it down pretty well:
www.buzzfeednews.com/article/stephaniemcneal/lularoe-millennial-women-entrepreneurship-lawsuits
Heyyy... be nicee lol
You have to realize they never really „sold“ much. So the early days were just more and more sellers, which gave the impression of success... basic pyramid scheme
grumpyotter that’s what SA face shields does. You can buy the one you want for 20 bucks are a box of like 5 and hope you get that one
My roommate bought some sugar scull leggings from a seller. I never understood it
This is extra sad because of the insane amount of waste created by the fashion industry... all this stuff only getting worn once... so much pollution & slave labour all around.
.b/ thredup and depop
100 %
@@thinkingtoomuch7680 sadly not every country has good secondhand shops like the US seems to have.in my country the shops are horrible ,no variety in sizes and they literally tried to sell a 5$ H&M Shirt for 30. Thats how awful it is where i live.i wished i could buy second hand,but not possible here
I agree nothing of real quality
@.b / they are everywhere and I have only shopped them most of my life.
Goodwill, salvation army, consignment shops ,the list is endless and supply of outfits to pick is also
A house can be furnished with less money and more offerings. Go to your phone book and look up second hand shops or some may be listed after goodwill and other well known names
It is so much fun
You can get good at the hunt and be pleased you got several items that would be a lower price than one item at what I call a real store.
Dd
So sad, I have so much empathy for these ladies. Thank you for speaking up! My daughter-in-
law got into this several years ago and was selling for a couple of years. At the time she was a stay at home mom. She's a wonderful wife to my son and great mom to my g-girls. I didn't want to insult her integrity, so I never said anything but I knew it was a pyramid scam from the beginning. She invested so much money in selling this over priced junk, even to the point of renting out some office space because she outgrew the half basement in the home. In the long run because of this, she lost a lot of money. 😪
Watched this documentary twice. This isn't about business or fraud. It's about women needing validation in their 'common' lives and finding it/getting addicted...then, being willing to pay just about any price to maintain it.
Validation. You nailed it 👍
@@zachking566 I respectfully disagree with your statement - "Validation & money make the world go round." But I do get where you're coming from. Thanks for the comment.
Exactly.
I work at a Goodwill. We get this stuff in ALL the time because no one can sell it.
I walked into my thrift store one day and someone must've donated their whole package. There was over one hundred pieces. I got a cute Mickey Mouse shirt for $2.99.
I worked at a thrift and we would also get a ton of this stuff. Sometimes just a few items and then sometimes we would get boxes of all Lula Roe gear.
Is Goodwill actually as bad a company as people say? I always hear that it's not really a charity and they exploit their workers...
Ezra Farber Yes, it’s not as it seems. The pay isn’t the best. They were asking more and more of the associates but not paying them for what they were asking. I saw individuals with special needs not treated very respectfully or kindly.
I found out the CEO of Goodwill makes over $14 million per year. I think it's disgusting they get stuff for free and then sell baskets for $6, vases for $8. Why not sell them for $1-3, when you know the shoppers are poor.
Any time someone is pushing for you to live beyond your means, that’s a red flag,
I know a couple who did very well with another company and they were told the same thing. Live big and show it off so they did. That company turned out to be a Ponzi scheme.
mcomeslast of course! They need people to be in debt and thus needing to keep selling and recruiting 🤷🏻♀️
Huge red flag. I’m so perplexed though. The clothes are hideous...
Well, that’s sales in general.. I sold high end new construction, and when I started, my sales manager really pushed me to get an expensive car and clothes. If the people you are trying to sell to think you are successful, they will feel more confident buying from you
Chainsaw Kitten I get that. All jobs expect a “look”. But putting yourself in financial straights isn’t smart and that seems to be what this lady did. Sure take some bonus money, upgrade the wardrobe. It’s a career investment. But also save some or invest. She’s worked hard and has nothing to show for it.
My mom fell into this schemes before. Selling “slimming” detox coffee. It did not work, and the few times that she forced me and my sisters to drink it, we got really bad stomach aches. She’ll sell it to her friends and say it worked, look at her daughters- we were thin because we did ballet and ate well, not because of some stupid coffee. It took my dad threatening to divorce for my mom to realize that she was sinking her savings on a pyramid scheme.
A multi level marketing company built on thousands of Karens 😂
"NO, *YOU'RE* STALE"
Wow. That's a grown man.
What does he even mean by “stale”
HERO_DREAMER I believe he means, I’m rubber you’re glue whatever you say bounces off me and sticks to you. Just basic kindergarten stuff
Baahahahahahahahaah...... sooooooo STALE
This is a telltale sign of a money-hungry leader. I can't believe he would say and also on film!
@@ItsMzPhoenix you're boring
How to spot a Pyramid Scheme: An old High School friend with whom you barely talked to randomly invites you for a coffee...
RUN
The exact thing happened to me but with Amway LOL
Some random dude on Facebook, who is a friend of a friend, messaged me about getting coffee the other day to talk about opportunities. Guy, I own two legit businesses, you don’t know that because it’s not listed on my profile. No, I’m not interested.
Ugh. Same with those who get "saved".
Omg this happened to me 😂😂 worst part I had just beat cancer and I thought we were hanging out as friends I was so annoyed 😂😂
@@Stefan-ji2ek My own sister tried to con me into selling Amway, I said no thanks! Years later, an acquaintance at the gym tried to con me into Arbonne, I said no f*ckin way and ran. She kept texting me, just told her to buzz off.
One of my dance friends moms was a “consultant” and soon my entire dance company was covered in lula roa it was crazy and it’s so interesting to learn about it more now
Leggings can be cut to make wide headbands : use larger ✂️sharp sewing shears. From the ankles, the ankles for ponytail ties, the hip-waist areas to make a turban type-- with a few hand stitch to prevent unraveling where you cut 🪡🧵
Great idea
@@dedepyle7046 thank you, you can make many, and if scrunched only the colors show. Post that, or really horrible colors🚀 rags for your favorite mechanic :)
@@adamarlem9863 awe, you are welcome.
I'm no Pharaoh but I know a Pyramid when I see one.
Boom! 👊
Nice
Yes, I was part of the Amway cult.
Lol!
😂 😂 This was great
Vice hits their mark: informing me about a bizarre subculture I've never heard about before, but doing it with a soft touch and plenty of emotional depth.
i’m hoping they put out more content like this!
Drew Penner in Utah this isn’t a subculture. I know about a dozen of these sellers and probably 4 dozen women who are apart of other schemes. It’s ridiculous
If you're interested in more stuff like this, check out reddit.com/r/antimlm
It's been one of my favourite subs for well over a year (probably closer to 2) now. You can learn a lot about more schemes like this one! On the subreddit most people loved this doc.
There's some AMAs from time to time from people who have been in or study MLMs like this one.
@@132karissanelson Prepaid legal services lol. Or whatever their new name is. "Legalshield"
I have watched this 4-5 times…these ladies are so funny and savvy. It’s not for lack of intellect that this happened to them. These companies are predatory.
They are predatory. They were fine when they were making money. Its all a scam
50,000 dollars / month very impressive...
Lmao you're just wrong im sorry, these are adult women who are responsible for their own choices and lack of career/critical thinking
The majority of women who are "recruited" are stay at home mothers. They want to be able to earn an income and stay home with their children. It is understandable how someone could fall for it because you would think if it was a scam, surely some entity could shut it down for being predatory. Sadly, government agencies aren't providing any protection from these "companies", and they are allowed to thrive. I've always worked outside of the home, so I can't fully understand the thought process of these ladies. I'm also not going to rip apart women who entered into something with the intention of helping their families.
"Tijuana skinnies" I can't anymore XD
Golden rule: If you have to pay to work at a company, its either a scam or a MLM.
So it's a scam?
@@jakemitchell7786 yeah, MLMs are pretty much the same thing as a scam. Never, ever pay money to buy into a job. Itll all go downhill from there
@@cait8573 I feel so bad for people who are actually so naive that they're victimized. It's also easy to be taken advantage of when one is vulnerable in any way. The right snake on the wrong day certainly has free reign to poison us.
I told a friend that she was in a pyramid scheme. She told me it was an MLM and the products worked for her. And I shouldn't say anything if I haven't tried the product.
I will not buy a product that has a history of hair damage and baldness.
I wished her luck and left the chat.
Edit: Yes, it's Monat
@@cait8573 just like modelling ‘agencies’ and the like... if you have to PAY for a job... it’s not a job. MLMs are disgustingggg.
Seller: “my inventory is stale”
Ceo: “YOU’RE STALE”
Lmaaooooo
YOUR CUSTOMERS ARE STALE
I know for him to say this and have No compassion for her👎🏻
Hahahaha I laughed so hard when he said that. No chill!!
That's why his wife, who has no say in how the company is run, is its public face. No one would buy their shit if he opened his mouth in public.
He is a nasty old man who doesn't give one single fuck about any of his customers.
If I make 75 grand in one month and someone tells me I have to spend it all...I'm like 'see ya later" I don't understand spending that much money.
Why does the state of Washington get 4 million? Any "damages" should go to the real victims. The women who were stuck with thousands of dollars in unsellable clothing should be the ones getting their money back. Joining a class action lawsuit means a judgement will be split - a law firm gets the lions share and a former consultant will get a check for $127.43.
Sooooo basically...the Scientology of fashion?
Monie Bugg hmmm fashion... is that what we’d call it? Lmao
Gill B lmao! Girl you know you're right! Basically they let a whole bunch of 5 yr olds color some leggings!! And look a friend of mine has 3 pair that tore up, girl she use them for cleaning rags...a damn shame...I hope they get SOME type of money back
Monie Bugg lmao they’re such a mess. But oh damn cleaning rags?!?! Lol I mean, I guess you gotta use them for something 😂😂 that’s pretty innovative hahah
Monie Bugg no this is 💯 a Mormon thing so more like warren Jeff’s cult of fashion
@@norml6874 so true! Gotta get more recruits, gotta get more wives...they were *stale*...Selfishness and Greed are a hell of a drug...
I don’t even wanna think about the people in the warehouses making these items getting payed pennies to do so.
Children in China
Mister Winkybluff more like India, because one child policy has made those children become emperors in China. All from vice news.
I know, and that's more than these ugly clothes are worth!
Wait I saw an ad for people in poor countrys for this. This is a scam.
They're probably still making more than these women.
Omg I can remember so many of my friend’s moms being “consultants” for lula roe, and I had so many lula roe leggings because of it. I had literally no idea which is the weird part.
The racks at goodwill are jam packed full of Lularoe.
I like SOME of LulaRoe's products. Not a lot but some...
I always had that feeling that something was not right with them.
I don't like them at all..I wear mostly solid colors and dress pants.
But yes exactly right. I see them all the time at the Goodwill Stores where I live.
The most disgusting part of this whole video was the CEO trying to convince her to get a gastric sleeve surgery. I lost it when I got to that part of the video.
Sandra XO I agree. Her mindset reminds me a lot of what I felt when an ex of mine pushed me into developing Anorexia and to join different “proana” groups. Weightloss should not be held in such a toxic mindset.
It sounded like the CEO could have been receiving kickbacks from the surgeon!
@@legallyrequired Oh wow, I'm so sorry :(
@@snapoutofit2151 Oh for sure! lol
Snap out of it - You might not be far off.
This is really sad because one of the main reason these women joined this scheme is because of loneliness. These women must have seen so many warning signs and ignored them because LuLaRoe made them feel like they had a support group. They felt like quitting would mean losing their (fake) friends so they didn’t do it.
That's the worst
Exactly and wanting financial freedom. That’s all people want. When you really open your eyes you see the world for what it is. It’s all about greed
"CoffeZilla" and "Always Macro" talk about this.
MLM's are master manipulators, they target the most vulnerable in our society, and give them a false sense of hope.
That's how a cult works
One of the women is still calling the other LulaRoe sellers 'friends' even after they disowned her because she quit the company. Fact is they were never friends. They behaved like friends because at one time you validated their own life choices, but as soon as you choose something different that challenges them and you've become a non-person. Totally cult-like.
"I didn't have friends, my daughter was too young, and I WAS STUCK AT HOME!" Key phrase right there that should have sent up alarms.
The fact that she in a sense, blamed her CHILD, for getting into this MLM scheme...is sad.
Thats what I thought too. Thats bs. I wonder why they dont have friends. Its probalbly because she does mlms. I dont hangout w people who do scams like this. Are they really victims?
I agree, and these women fail to admit that they themselves were preying on every single vulnerable woman that they recruited underneath them. I’m happy for them that they wised up and got out, but they need to own up to the fact that if they recruited people, they were predatory too. Seems like they only became victims after those big bonus checks stopped coming in.
Imagine thinking that you had friends who just used you the whole time.
What about the stolen art?? This pyramid scheme company took people's art and prints and used them without permission. There are so many lawsuits against this shady company.
Des Comer Wow!
And I will enjoy it when in the end every judge rules against LLR
Unfortunately I imagine that was in some fine print. Wouldnt surprise me if this was part of the plan from the beginning, especially leverage in case someone was going to double cross them.
@@taylorhunt5459 so much leverage I went to a free makeover from Mary Kay to see how much of a cult it was and they already started worth the leverage before they even higher you. They ask you to sell 300 dollars worth or 100 dollars worth at first and offer you a car within first fee months or year and they use fear tactics. Also it is a religious Christian cult if you do not admit to being religious they convertin their minds even of you claim you cannot be converted
What a shitty company. Fucking people over wherever they go.
Someone mentions $5k to start, and I'd be laughing on my way out the door. I can invest that in my own business before throwing it away on theirs.
It would make sense if it was an actual franchise.
I would’ve made more money investing in enron
LOL same
Yeah! If I couldn't pick my patterns and peices no way would they get that much out of me. Also I had already spent it on their ugly leggings. Don't judge me they are buttery soft!!!
@@anitalassiter4266 , but you need leggings that are very beautiful and that will display your beautiful shape so that you feel lighter than air.
30 thousand dollar checks each month and you didn’t pay off your house? Maybe shouldn’t have been buying LV purses!
I just heard of this company; the ugliest rags ever. I'm surprised they sold. It is also really terrible that this company preyed on people. Lastly: if you have to pay to hang out with people, they are NOT your friends. People you connect to on FB are NOT your friends just because FB calls them that.
I was thinking the same, who would buy these ugly af rags?
If you have people on your list of Facebook friends who aren't your friends in real life, just delete them. No good is going to come of collecting a list of strangers on a page and then posting about your personal life so that they can read about it.
Or better yet, leave FB, have a real life instead of a virtual one. It is really annoying how much time people spend on their virtual lives instead of meeting and talking to the real friends sitting next to them.
@@b.menendez1525 Yes, that's an even better idea. I have a FB page, but I hardly ever use it and go months or even over a year without even logging in. It's a massive waste of time, causes depression, and makes it even easier to inadvertently offend people.
I distrust anyone who calls me "sister" just because we're both women. There's something so hollow and phony about that. Know me first.
Why is this sooooooooo trueee!!?
Yeah, it's like guys who kiss your hand. No thankyou, forced intimacy gives me hives.
Kaelah, you are SO right!
@J R So the tea is that you're being fake. If you're regarding someone as your sister, when you don't actually feel like they're your sister, that's you giving validation to OP's initial statement. I would 100% not trust a single person who calls me "sister" because we happen to share a gender. I have a real sister, and some random fake stranger ain't gonna compare to that kind of bond.
It may be a wild thought, but you ARE capable of being kind to someone who's a friend. They don't have to be a sister or a mother to you to remember to be kind and welcoming to them.
@TheAmazingLittleRose lol!
What I really wanna hear is Lashae's story, she seems to be far more aware of the behind the scenes than the sellers/recruiters.
SAME! She didn't get enough time to get much of anything on camera :/
'sounds like an MLM but ok' podcast is realllly good, they interview a lady in one of them that was quite high up within lularoe, she rubbed shoulders with diane, very creepy gross stuff !
just realised that the lady i'm talking about is the one who had to sell her house !! she goes into more detail about the gastric sleeve etc
@@er_cl yeah theres videos of a facetime she did with a ex consultant she goes more in depth over all. Also another good video if you wanna know more about Lularoe, münecat has really good ones. She goes more into stuff that other anti-mlm CZcamsrs haven't. It's pretty long.
sʟʏ fox yess i'm subbed to münecat ! it's such a rabbit hole 😱
I'd defenitely would love a Vice documentary on Amway. They make statements such as they've been around for 60 years and they're legal since if they were illegal they wouldn't be around. I got some friends in Amway and want to undersatnd how AMway's MLM works too.
This breaks my heart and I feel very badly for these women that just want to belong. The sad thing is the pressure that the up lines place on the reps to get them to get people involved in this that cannot literally afford to spend their last cent on buying in. The pressure is insane and to lose a life long friend over a pair of defective leggings makes me wonder just what someone would do when the Real money is on the table. These people should be sent to prison. If you ever watch the TLC show Sister Wives, you will see that either one or all four of them are Lu La Roe reps. Talk about pressure to be on one of their down lines! This is robbery
and fraud all rolled into one corrupted mess. Makes me very sick to see the real collateral damage done by these so called good people. Shame shame on all of them involved.
This sounds like a cult basically.
More like a pyramid scheme
Because it is
It is a cult. Many of their tactics come directly from the playbook that cults use.
MLMs are basically for-profit cults xD
Izuku it is. It's Amway all over again.
My mom is gullible to stuff like this. This reminded me to check in on her more often
Akisha Parker my mom too! 😂
My mother too! Just recently she was telling me about a scheme like this.
My mom as well. And she seems so enlightened when talking about these companies.
Akisha Parker Mine too. Herbalife got my mom once.
A LOT OF OUR PARENTS are victims of this. My dad was part of HLife (You know the name). I was so upset since I went to school for business. I didn't talk to them about finances for 10 years. Now I am fixing everything, very frustrating.
no legitimate company would dictate their employees how they should spend their money
if employees want to squander their money on lavish things that's their choice, but the legitimate employer would never order their employees what they should do with their money
Legitimate companies tbf often pressure people into pushing a certain image too, including with getting nice cars
Whilst that doesn't exist in the company I work for, a colleague said you're on x money, why are you buying y car?
I said I barely use the car and I'm not gonna spend £2-£300/month on something that's just there for image.
@@waqasahmed939 a company may not be MLM but can still be shady in their own ways
if an employer pressures their employees to push a certain image like getting nice cars instead of focusing on customers' satisfaction, then the employer won't be kosher
Watching this after LuLaRich even though I’ve seen it before. Lol.
Those bonus checks were returns from their own money - not actually bonuses.
Yeah and the cruises and vacations they thought they won were actually paid for my them
@@Balletified what I meant was, all of them essentially are just reinvesting money they make from the company, by buying inventory to keep selling... so it's all just stupid lol
Seriously. They’re just shifting everyone’s money around to make it look like they’re making money. But they’re not. They’re expected to pay for their inventory again.
It’s just a cycle of moving their money around & the actually company receiving it back.
They were a combo. It is a pyrmid scheme so the people at the top, the bonus is a mix of their own money and money returned to them from those below them that made purchases, so they’re also getting other people’s refunds. It is what makes this business structure disgusting.
Like that always sunny episode where they used coupons 😂
Pro tip: if you ever have to pay a company to work for them, it's a scam.
Pro Tip 2: if you are told exactly what you can and cannot do, as well as how and when to do it, and exactly what to sell, you are not a business owner or a #bossbabe. MLM "consultants" are not their own bosses; theyre unpaid distributors.
Pro tip 3: Always save/invest a portion of every paycheck because unexpected shit can happen. If you are making $50k per month you should have a budget and it's possible that $10k can be put into an investment portfolio.
Fr
Erin it’s not MLM if your buy in and recruiting are emphasized over sales, the buy in is what drives commissions, AND of course, if their pay structure is illegal. Pyramids are illegal. That’s what they were. MLMs are different but you have to do your research to distinguish between them.
@@shawna1278 There is no such thing as a good MLM. Period. Citation, this FTC-Sponsored White Paper (Which really should get more publicity): www.ftc.gov/sites/default/files/documents/public_comments/trade-regulation-rule-disclosure-requirements-and-prohibitions-concerning-business-opportunities-ftc.r511993-00008%C2%A0/00008-57281.pdf
Even without papers like the above, it should be obvious what MLMs are... but somehow, people don't get it.
I can’t even wrap my mind how people bought that ugly clothes..
I'm amazed how could they sell anything. The clothes look beyond awful and the quality, oh my 😬
the black woman was highlighted more in the intro than her actual part. would have loved to hear more from her side of the industry. she worked in the background!
Janos Pergely 1000% AGREE
Janos Pergely Yes..
true, also the part when she said about how much supply they were receiving... it's mind-blowing... all that clothing was literally trash manufactured in Asia that will end up in America's trash bins and will have to be burned to get rid of, turning into toxic smoke to further damage the climate of the planet... apocalypse now.
I was hoping
@@Mashruz What a stupid close-minded, statement. Get passed color. You'll be a better person for it. WE ALL BLEED RED
The environmental impact of this must be astronomical.
I couldn't stop thinking about all of that just going straight to the landfill when it inevitably rips/falls apart
THat's the fashion industry as a whole though, Forever 21, Target, H & M. It's all really bad.
ikr. either end up in goodwill or the landfill.
Makes me cry. The amount of waste that is unbiodegradable that we continue to buy from China is actually killing our planet right in front of our eyes. Burying things doesn’t make them go away
@@melainebullock ikr! plus these clothes looked like shit to begin with. the injustice.
Well, supplier quality is a *vital* part of any sales business. I've learned that same lesson with many different products. Just change the product or supplier if you're really good at selling.
Edit: And you should never invest $5k into a business without rigorously testing the product orders first!!
This company is obviously trash, but I feel like Courtney is making excuses for her very poor financial planning or lack thereof, and blaming it on the company. She actually said she should’ve planned from the beginning but then negated that responsibility by saying “BUT they “taught” us to spend lavishly”. You’re a grown woman- you don’t need to be taught how to spend 4 grand on a bag. That’s absolutely ludicrous and the epitome of irresponsible spending when your income isn’t a constant. I don’t care who tells me to spend like that- in fact, if any employer tells you you should be spending lavishly, that’s a major red flag and a good indicator the owner is unethical and probably also a criminal. It seems like Courtney still isn’t owning up to her financial mismanagement, so she will most likely keep putting herself in debt. For one thing, if you’re that broke, you would’ve sold that 4K bag long ago.
When are these people going realize that they do not own their own business and that they are the customer? Really sad.
could always be worse. At least clothes don't have a short shelf life like Herbalife!
They are not even customers. They are sheep getting fleeced over and over without even realizing they are being fleeced until it's too late.
They’re the customers with the liability of the company. So sleazy. These consultants are brainwashed.
More like these people are the product. The leggings are just a distraction prop.
I had a lady selling amway approach me about it. She met me many times at starbucks and didn't mention amway she just talked about investing and other things. I even went to two of the meetings and everyone was so hyped and excited to be rich like the speaker. He made fun of people working and how rich he was and still no mention of what the supposed investment would be. I wanted to see how long this would go before anyone told me what it actually was. She had me read a book too. Finally I told her what you wrote and she said I am not a good fit for the company, I have had 2 others approach in the last 2 years with similar spills. I have a second sense for these things now. I straight up told an old couple yesterday if it was amway or anything like it I wasn't interested.
Watching her describe the tree without realizing it’s a pyramid scheme😂
Sheryl Black 😂😂😂
The people that own this company probably got together and thought that instead of making the level of"consultants" look like a pyramid, let's call it something more friendly and relatable. I know, we'll call it a tree 🎄! Window dressing at it's finest
As soon as someone says "upline" you know it's a scheme 😂😂
Like 15 years ago, i went to a too good to be true job opportunity. He called it legs, you had your left leg and your right leg. This month your left leg would make you good money and next month your right leg would make good money.
@@salimkhawati7222 haha Beach body says that
Mark is a peach. "You're stale, you're customer's stale." 🤦🏾♀️👀
My friend almost fell for an MLM. But she told me how the interview process was and how she would get paid, and I knew something was not right. I searched the company up, and ppl were saying it was a scam and it was an MLM. Had no idea what an MLM was and searched about it. Safe to say I stopped my friend from getting into it and was disgusted at how predatory MLMs operate.
People recruiting downlines actually require an interview???
If people unfriend you and not speak to you anymore because you're exposing the company then they weren't your REAL friends anyway.
Vee Orange no shit, it was a cult.
Vee Orange yeah Im pretty sure that was implied......
I seen a few people lose friends this way. I always get frustrated when I get an invite to a "girls night party" that's only disguised as MLM sale.
That's the really sad thing. Everyone thinks they're real friends.
It is that way with politics also
I find it ironic that the CEO is calling the Reps and customers stale, when it's their clothing that smells like mold..
You could write a book on the incredibly stupid things him and his wife say, or two.
I was thinking the same thing...
I was taken aback by how much of an asshole that guy was being in that segment. I though he would at least try to maintain a cheerful next-door-neighbor facade, but no, he acted like a sneering whiny jerk instead.
DeadlyDeadlyBeees Right... that sounded like a four year old!
Stale is a retail term that suggests an item simply isn't selling and getting 'stale' on the shelf. I'm almost certain that's how CEO Mark Stidham was using the term. I can only assume that the Vice reporter didn't know this or simply used this clip in the middle of the 'outdoor storage' segment to generate outrage by implying the clothes were musty. If the latter is the case, Vice's reputation for being propagandists is quite warranted.
Gonna be honest, Dianne or whoever the owner is called is incredibly charismatic, but toxic AF. She really could have built a legit business. Such a good idea and product in the beginning, but she just loves money too much, and it didn't matter what she sold. It could have been bags of poop, for all she cared
My wife and I did Avon yrs ago Not once did my upline ever talk about selling the product just recruit. left after a few months.
I’m sorry but the clothing looks out dated and tacky.😳
Muffy Chao What year was this,??
I think it’s more for like 40-50 year old women. My mom would like a lot of it I think like the cardigans and bags and crap.
E.Therese Bradley what do you mean?
Shaylyn Jordan mine too lol!🤣
Shaylyn Jordan
I’m almost 23 and I would buy those leggings, I love colorful clothing! (But I also have never cared about fashion trends)
I feel like if someone tried to make counterfeit lularoe leggings it would be a much higher quality than the legitimate product
The designs are already counterfeit 🤣
@@graciearson So, the counterfeit of a counterfeit?
bet
I have been finding new LuLaRoe dresses with tags at Goodwill. I have several dresses and skirts of that brand. I had no ideal it was a pyramid scheme.
They probably would have been dropped off by people who couldn’t sell them (those especially ugly patterns) or from those who were pressured into buying them.
As of February, 2021 Lularoe has lost that Washington lawsuit to the tune of about $4.7 million. Kinda wish it was for more but at least the suit was victorious.
It's a start at least.