Multilevel Marketing: Last Week Tonight with John Oliver (HBO)
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- čas přidán 6. 11. 2016
- Multilevel marketing companies claim to be legitimate businesses, but some seem awfully…pyramid shaped. John Oliver and Jaime Camil demonstrate how they work.
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Here's a good rule of thumb: When your boss goes out of his way to explain to you why exactly the company is not a criminal organisation then the company is probably a criminal organisation.
Pretty much a general principle - if you have to ask whether something is legit, most of the time it really isn't! (e.g. scam/phishing messages)
Yes, I remember my old boss used to tell us not to go on CZcams and watch these videos that pretty much exposed the whole business, he would talk about how “it’s just the haters, the naysayers, stay positive, don’t listen to that”. They had me for 7 months, then I went to a leadership meeting in Houston, and I decided to do more research. I found the videos and realized that everything I felt about the company wasn’t me being “negative” it was true and they were basically brainwashing us. One of the worst experiences of my life. It messed with my mental health, but I was able to pick up the pieces, I found a stable job and I am grateful I came across those videos.
Except you don’t have a boss in an MLM, you’re an independent contractor.
I can probably guess the industry you’re in… is it fast food?
Exactly! MLM reps are constantly trying to explain why they are not a scam or pyramid scheme. No legitimate opportunity or business would have to defend themselves that way. It’s a huge red flag!
@@MidnightAndLuna they have to explain why it’s not a pyramid because retards like you keep thinking it’s a pyramid. Even though the FTC DNB and BBB say they aren’t.
They do it because you guys are uneducated and you come from school/job backgrounds. Not business backgrounds.
"Multilevel marketing" is to "pyramid scheme" what "enhanced interrogation technique" is to "torture".
It's what escorts and call girls are to prostitutes and whores.
No.
On the other hand, most currencies are pyramid schemes, but no one seems to notice or care. I wonder why that is.
Boris Paing the fuck are you on about
@@boris5950 Pyramid Scheme:
"a form of investment (illegal in the US and elsewhere) in which each paying participant recruits two further participants, with returns being given to early participants using money contributed by later ones."
I don't really know or care what your point is about money, but money fits nowhere into the definition of pyramid scheme. No ones going to listen to you if you're arguement is effectively "This term is bad so it must apply to this thing i don't like."
@@sexychick70325 from where i'm from we call it a "bubble". It's basically something "too good to be true" and you know it will eventually "burst"
just wanted to come back here to say that this segment literally saved me from signing up with an MLM today. heard the pitch, it sounded innocuous at first, then recognized the signs from this bit. wasted two hours of my time, but i got out before they got any money out of me. i mean this very sincerely: thank you mr zazu.
Do u think Andrew Tate thing is a MLM as well
Congratulations on dodging a major bullet
@@Dom-bn1ru Yes 100%
@@Dom-bn1ru andrew tate is the dumbest fucking most asshole guy in the world. Hitler was more tolerable than him
This is what this entire world is built on my friend. Scamming the next person you see.
If you have to pay in order to stay "employed" in any of these MLM Companies, then you aren't an independent contractor, you are the customer.
I'm getting flashbacks to the truck episode with those negative paychecks - actually, never mind, sounds pretty fitting too!
Please do some business research then re-read your comment. It’s quite a hilarious display of your incompetence
@@ValFatherTime You make no sense
@@BangMaster96 what makes no sense?
Maybe you have reading comprehension issues .
@@ValFatherTime Your comment makes no sense, as in "you're blurting out nonsense"
You have basic comprehension issues
'I'm not going to swindle anyone. I lost but no one else is going to lose because of me.' - God bless that woman.
Good for her for noticing where to draw the line with the selling stuff, albeit a bit late. She recognized the products aren't selling themselves and expiring and then the "friend" basically introduced her the illegal method.
@@cheesecakelasagna Absolutely, good on her :-)
props to her. most ppl who get to the point of losing all their invested money dont have the guts she has to draw the line at recruiting more people
Don’t believe in God but yes I agree.
@@cheesecakelasagna Yes, very impressed with her.
These poor salespeople will never understand. Because you're not arguing against their logic. You're arguing against their hopes and dreams.
Yeah. and MLM is more of a cult than a business. MLM distributors are brainwashed in to rejecting any sort of disagreements or criticism, and they believe they will be saved one day.
And the same statement can be applied to religious people.
KingOfKings as a former MLM distributor...this is the most powerful statement I've ever heard.
They’ve got to take responsibility for their own naivety though, my sympathy is limited when a lot of these people are driven by greed just as much as the companies themselves.
My friend has been dragged into it, the worst part is he doesn't even care if he is doing wrong and BTW he had to pay around 8k to enter "his pyramid" :((
This episode helped me and my husband and couldn’t be more thankful! We almost got sucked into Amway right around the time this came out. After everything I’ve learned since then about Amway and other MLMs, we seriously dodged a bullet.
Yes you did, now spread the word to others, send the link to everybody you know and encourage them to do the same.
Same with me almost got caught up in a financial mlm
gosh it was amway that almost got me too!! glad you and your husband saw the signs before you could get scammed!!
@@sandata glad you didn’t either. We dodged a bullet
What made you think Amway wasnt a piramid scheme at first? Like didnt they tell you that you could make a lot of money by signing other people up?
A college professor, whom I respected deeply, tried to lure me into one of these. After he was laid off by the university (after teaching for 35 years, with a 40-year-long career in all of the best companies), I assume that he got dragged into these due to his severance pay. He then started contacting his formuer students with a "great job opportunity". As he was a dear and credible professor, many accepted to meet with him. I was one of these students who gave him the benefit of the doubt even after countless red flags during his pitch. At the meeting, he brings a second person (his "partner") who starts spewing all of the clichés, talking a lot but without saying anything. I just said I wasn't interested and left. Then I warned my college colleagues about what had happened. Two friends later told me this professor tried to recruit them a couple of weeks later.
I feel sorry for this professor, to be honest. Disregarding all the awful ethical implications of recruiting former students to a pyramid scheme, it must have been extremely difficult for him after he was laid off.
Some individuals even set up booths around campuses and ask students if they're looking for work to sign up for a job interview appointment. They have you meet up at a Starbucks and then tell you that they can help you start your own business. All they need is a valid credit card for collateral before they can ship you the products you'll be selling for them - this happens all the time especially during bad economic times.
Just curious, how is that professor doing now?
@@andyyipster haven't heard from him anymore. on linkedin, he's still listed as "autonomous lecturer", which I reckon is just codeword for "unemployed stuck in a pyramid scheme". None of my colleagues mentioned they were contacted by him with this bullshit.
Falling for a pyramid scheme is like becoming a vampire: Someone comes along and bleeds you dry, and if you want to survive afterward, your only option is to do the same thing to someone else.
Never heard a better explanation than this!
You do all of it to yourself though..so it's more like vampire gambling.
spongeintheshoe ...Exactly!
"Turn it upside down.." -Frank
But at least as a vampire, you get to do cool shit like climb up walls, float in midair, turn into a bat or wolf, become super strong, and get some kickass sex appeal. When you fall for one of these schemes, you don't even get those. You just become a chump.
That woman in the documentary clip is a FUCKING HERO. Holy shit that was moving. She said "I lost everything but it stops with me". That takes real, genuine, toes to tip courage and character.
Where?
What's the old Truman quote? "the buck stops here"?
@@jhui604 21:25
I'm sure you're getting unemployment now right ? She must have sucked lol
That documentary Betting On Zero is available on youtube
This video popped up in my recommendations today, and I felt compelled to comment. I watched this the day it came out five years ago as a naive 23 year old, having heard of some of the companies but with no understanding of what an MLM was or how they operated.
About a month later, I was approached at my job by a girl about my age asking if I was interested in "helping people". I thought it was some kind of volunteering gig at a food bank or homeless shelter; it was Amway. I'm usually a big pushover, even with people I don't know very well, but because I'd watched this video, I knew enough to be suspicious of this girl and to ask the right questions about the company, the products, and how they operate. I got away from that interaction without an ounce of the guilt I usually feel for being firm or for denying my people-pleasing nature. Thank you John Oliver and the Last Week Tonight team for helping to protect a young 20-something from making a horrible mistake. ❤
Sigh... So young. Smh. She *STILL* would've let you 'gash up,' tenderfoot! Truuuuust me. You just don't
... know*
I got sucked into MLMs in my life and I'm so glad I'm over it. I used to gravitate towards health and wellness" MLMs. Melaleuca, Noni Juice, Market America, and narrowly managed to dodge Kangen water. I eventually ended up legitimately going into the fitness and health industry through getting a bachelor's in exercise science, nutrition, and certifying as a trainer. My heart sank at an MLM training for a weight loss product when the instructor (supposedly a certified health instructor) literally told the class that "muscle turns to fat". It was downhill from there.
I live in Utah, and it really sucks when you think you're making a new friend, and they just want to recruit you into their cult. Not that cult, the other one.
Yea, I live in Kansas and when I was in high school I joined the Mormon church (no regrets on that, beyond the fact that I now pretty much think all organized religion is bad... most Christians haven't even read the bible, they just parrot what their church leaders tell them) but even here they're all about their Amway... and I'm just like "uuuh no thanks. But hey, at least you have your ten years of food for when the apocalypse comes, you'll be set."
teapots?
O o f. Maybe find a different state 😬
I'm concerned you have to not only identify but avoid _multiple_ cults in your social sphere. For the low low price of your dignity and immortal soul I have some Essential Oils that'll help you out.
Well, the funny thing is, by the dictionary definition of what a cult is, yes, the Mormon religion IS a cult. So is Lutheran, Protestant, the Church of England, Catholicism, even Christianity itself is a cult by the strictest definition.
2 minutes in, and it's starting to sound a lot like a pyramid scheme
well, would you look at that
Yup, welcome to American capitalism, buddy.
Alec Stewart It's actually the exact opposite of American capitalism. That's the problem.
The only difference between an MLM and a pyramid scheme is that an mlm has a real product.
If you have to say your business isn't a pyramid scheme, it's probably a pyramid scheme.
My cousin lives in a poor developing country. her mother is constantly sick, and my cousin is trying to complete her nursing degree so she can take care of her mother and three younger brothers. recently my mother told me that my cousin has become a businesswoman! And she sells stuff! "Oh!" i said. "She makes and sells her own products?" "No" she answered. The conversation stopped there and I didn't give it another thought. Fast forward a week and I dust off my account on facebook only to see my feed filled with posts from her telling everyone how amazing this company is, and that you simply MUST join! Post after post, trying to convince others to join the "family" and "sisterhood". I don't speak her language so I contact my mother and inform her that my cousin might be involved in an MLM.
Turns out my cousin had taken a bank loan to afford the "starter pack", shes trying to sell her products but every potential client thinks it's too expensive. She said she did this because she wanted to help her family, she is the breadwinner of her family. I'm FUMING and so SAD that she got herself involved in this. But she is the target for these companies, she is young, poor and dream big.
Coming to this very late but it's brilliant. Here in Bulgaria, someone I know conned me into buying a stupid box of those Herbalife pills. He simply opened a new container, pulled a pill out and told me to try it out, then charged me the equivalent of 25 dollars for a useless product.
There's another loss that's not mentioned, that of relations, friends and acquaintances who get pushed to accept a product or a scheme they don't want and go right off the seller.
It's never too late, there are 10s of millions of people who reach 18 years old every year. If you were 12 years old when this video was made you are now a primary target.
Do something productive by sending the link to everybody you know and encourage them to do the same.
@@Whydoyoubanothers fuck outta here with that bullshit lmao. You are the exact kind of scum that OP is advising against
@@carmeloshin Hey "tough" guy, I'll bet you're too scared to come on my podcast to defend yourself. LOL
@carmeloshin I dunno what you said, but your probably a part of the problem rather than the solution. You have the look....if you don't know what that look is...ask if u have a debt, that's not a mortgage, over 5k...u look like you leasing alot
An MLM CEO running out on stage to a song with the lyrics 'I wanna watch you bleed'. Very subtle
You can taste the bright lights but you won't get them for free...
You can have anything you want but you better not take it from me...
You're gonna die...
Feel my, my, my, my serpentine...
It's gonna bring you down!
They are upfront about it, technically.
Isn't the line before that something about getting on your knees? Hot damn, that's creepy!
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 I thought I was the only one that noticed that 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 you killed it
I caught that too.
"You wanna know where you are...youre in the jungle, baby. Youre gonna diiiiiiieeeeeeyyyaaaaaaauhhhhh!!"
@@alexmarkadonis7179 ll
A 30 minute John Oliver video?
It's christmas, people.
two of those, brother.
same thing with spanish captions, brother.
Different endings, brother.
Light the fireworks gents and ladies
*Hermano
I had a friend in college who maxed out her credit cards because of Mary Kay. It's scary because I found out by just being invited to a "make-up party"; they aren't even honest about it being a sales pitch. I literally thought I was just going to get makeovers with my friends (maybe that was a bit naïve, but I was only 20), and I felt really uncomfortable when I realized she was selling the makeup. Even though I knew the company was BS, I still bought a few things despite the fact that I don't wear make-up on a regular basis because I felt like a crappy friend if I didn't.
That is what pyramid schemes and mlms count on people will buy the product just to support their friend/family.
Same here! She wasn't even my friend. My best friend signed me up for a stupid makeover even though she a) knew I didn't wear makeup and b) didn't know her friend. I felt bad and bought a $20 lotion I was allergic to. I even told said "friend" I was allergic to it and she didn't care. I fucking hate mary kay.
@@sapphiresupernova Wow, that really sucks! And I thought the foundation that doesn't match my skin tone was bad.
Do something productive by sending the link to everybody you know and encourage them to do the same.
@@aaab6054 Exactly. Do something productive by sending the link to everybody you know and encourage them to do the same.
Please do this again, my middle age mother has become obsessed with this crap and is buying boxes and boxes of candles. I've told her it's a scam but she won't listen.
My MIL is involved in a vitamin MLM. It's so hard watching a trainwreck happen in front of you and them not listening when you tell them to (leave) get out of the way!
I think Norway has the right approach: any business where 50% or more of the revenue comes from recruiting more members is declared an illegal pyramid scheme. Practical, easy to understand, fair, and reasonable.
Collin Porterfield you lost me after your first sentence lmao. inside sales means no product is being move legitimately. MLMs like lularoe or paparazzi are still scams, but don't technically sell fraudulent products, just shitty ones. they're still pyramid schemes, and suffer from the inside sale problem. 50 is understandable because if your inside sales are nearing overtaking your outside sales, something is clearly wrong. i'm sure 49% would warrant an investigation, too. inside sales on a large scale are essentially "cheating" at being a business, and do not reflect the true market status of the company.
Collin Porterfield Sure but 51% of your profits coming from outside sales as opposed to inside sales is almost impossible to do in these mlm type companies. In order for that to happen you need a really really good product and if you have that then is no point in engaging in these practices in the first place. The whole thing about it is being low effort as in just take a shitty product and try to trick as many people into it with false promises and after that they will do all the work for you while you cash in. These companies will get nowhere even close to 51% outside sales because nobody is interesting in buying lipstick from their friends garage etc that is why they depend entirely on inside buying.
Collin Porterfield I guess we found the "Independent Business Owner"
You might want to get "your" grammar usage right before calling other people idiots... But then again, I'm just a stupid American, so what do I know.
USA has a similar guideline, but it's 30%. You need to make 70% of your money or more from selling the product or it is one indication of an illegal pyramid scheme.
I read somewhere on some other youtube video "if you have to pay to work at the company, you are not the employee, you're the customer."
Alanna Powell you are the customer
Noam Chomsky maybe?
true but than again if you pay to open a coffe shop are you a customer?
@@zestorm6233 you are the customer of those people that you bought from. If you bought coffee machines from someone, then you are his customer. But if people buy a cup of coffee from your shop, then they are your customers.
@@joyfulness9968 An excellent explanation for someone who clearly needed it.
As a desperate college graduate some 15 years ago, I joined GNLD. The sales pitch was so perfect that I borrowed the registration fee (about $50 at the time). Lucky I realized after registering that "being my own boss" would cost me 10 times as much to buy shit I'd have to start selling to everyone in my village. I miss that $50.
LOL. I'm watching this in 2022 and I WANT to send this out to 10, 20,50,100 people!!!!!!
Honestly selling actual drugs would be less risky and get more results than this.
And drugs actually work!
I had a friend who did both. Can confirm he made more selling drugs.
It would be far more ethical too.
And, ironically, at least drug dealing is honest work... the customer is getting exactly what they paid for...
@@fleon4115 😂😂
Jon Oliver delivers a comedic TED Talk on a weekly basis
HOLY SHIT!
No.. just no...
He and his team are brilliant!
You have my sympathies. Clearly you misunderstand the topic.
I dont find him funny some jokes are tho. I feel the same with Trevor noah
Shout out to the graphic designer that came up with the logo for Jizz. You are truly an unsung hero.
I remember growing up and having my family get involved with these schemes. Thankfully they never got to far into them, but I still have people close that keep doing this. Its both heart breaking and infuriating to me that these kinds of scammers can get away with this crap.
You really need to do an update to this story - COVID has let these MLMs run wild and the unbelievable volume of stealth Herbalife ‘nutrition’ cafes with shakes/smoothies and “loaded” teas is terrifying.
So true. Many warning letters were sent to different companies and MLM's over health claims
I was just thinking this- and tic tok has become a place for free marketing and crazy recruit stories for these schemes. It's terrifying.
What is a nutrition Cafe? Are they selling this stuff in brick and mortar buildings now or is it something else? Thanks. 🙂❤
@@alainab6644 Yes. Brick and mortar nutrition cafés that are recruitment hubs. They have been popping up everywhere. Doesn't say Herbalife outside but inside it is full of Herbalife products. This is just another way to fleece people.
@@curiousculture3415 That is insane! Thanks for letting me know. I had no idea!
The only proper MLM with no fees for participating is infact drug dealing
You make more money selling drugs.
Pimping too
The only proper MLM is Men Loving Men
@@dylanchouinard6141 this comment deserves to be on the top 😤
@@nuggets0717 thanks
In my communication class in college, we were allowed to give our first presentation on any subject. And one girl basically did a marketing pitch for the MLM she worked for. My friend and I considered signing up but we never did lol
Which MLM was it, and what grade did she get?
I have a similar story of a student inviting people to their place for a "business opportunity". Stayed away.
@@anstef1485 Did you ever find out which MLM it was?
@@Whydoyoubanothers maybe it was amway?
@@Whydoyoubanothers I think she got a good grade because the professor looked impressed. In fact, the whole class seemed impressed. It was some skin care company that I think started with the letter A.
What kills me is that the mlm-ers call themselves "business owners." If you aren't producing or making your product and, most importantly, pricing your own product, advertising it and selling it, YOU ARE NOT A BUSINESS OWNER.
They are unpaid salesman
Because business owners manufacture and make their own products? Lol
Walmart MUST manufacture Tide, Crest, Reebok, PlayStation, etc?
Exactly!
@@MidnightAndLuna “exactly” yet that statement is incorrect
😂😂
This is why so many people fail at MLMs…
i hate the fact that it targets vulnerable people, especially younger mothers and people with health issues that don’t have other options
I quited for the same reason. I was not losing much money, but I remember my "leader" asked me to persuade a girl to join our team and purchase a bunch of products right in the beginning. But she was just a stupid kid with no idea of the responsibility she's gonna carry. At that moment, I just realized its all scam and these people care about nothing but finishing the month with high positive return..
Its a symptom of a bigger problem in this country. No one would be this desperate if we actually took care of our people. Not only that a lot of MLMs are based on wellness and yeah the products could be $40 not work but it's better than going to a doctor and getting sacked with a $100 bill plus prescriptions plus any follow ups. America is broken.
Your comment describes my sister inlaw exactly and I'm trying to convince her she is in a pyramid scheme
On one hand, yeah. On the other hand, I can't feel sorry for the idiot that lost 22.000$. How do you lose that much and only THEN figure it out. He dumb.
You have other options, its about not having education.
The amount of pyramid schemes I've had to talk my wife out of is ridiculous.
does your wife not have a job or skill? This seems to be a common factor amongst people attracted to mlms. I see single moms attracted to mlms because they tend to not have jobs or are forced to work part-time. I also see young and poor people attracted to these schemes because of the promises of quick riches.
@@painexotic3757 She runs her own business, but like you said mlm's seem attractive because of the promise of quick, easy returns. It probably is mostly single Mums and people on lower incomes. Although, even when you have money life tends to kick you in the teeth, I can see why people get drawn in.
this
I have a friend that is constantly trying to talk me into buying and selling stuff
@freedom300 *they're
Be careful with your comment, it leans on the sexist discriminatory side. Men can also be emotional. If anything, most people I know who have joined MLM's are men
How come i just watch this again & again over time, probably my favorite episode of LWT ? It'so over the top
I want this segment revisited with info on the new pop up shops they do, we have 5 in our local area selling shakes and teas and it seems outrageous. I think it’s a way to sell more product within the shakes and teas instead of it sitting in your garage in complete containers
If those are like the ones popping up here in Puerto Rico, they're NOT pop-up shops... Herbalife Nutrition Clubs keep popping and bankrupting all the time, even 3-5 in THE SAME BLOCK. Even a Club that closed it is replaced weeks later by ANOTHER Club.
"It's not a pyramid scheme, that would be illegal"
"What do you call it then?"
"A ziggurat plan"
hahahaha...
ziggurat
(in ancient Mesopotamia) a rectangular stepped tower, sometimes surmounted by a temple. Ziggurats are first attested in the late 3rd millennium BC and probably inspired the biblical story of the Tower of Babel (Gen. 11:1-9).
Nice!
@@IR240474 If I went to Iraq today, could I visit the Ziggurats in person?
ilmunaughtii: "Send in the Hun Slayers..."
@@carultch I am not sure Carl, I don't want to give you the wrong info. The lockdown won't help, and even if everything was good, there is still trouble there so be careful.
“Able to work from home” doesn’t have the same desirable ring to it anymore does it? Hahahhahaha
The problem isn't the ability to work from home. It's the inability to not work from home
to soon buddy
Yeah, that didn't age well :)
Now it's more desirable than ever.
I wouldnt mind it if I could
Here because I just saved my friend from getting roped into a MLM. The person recruiting her tried to recruit me but I’ve been burned by these m f’ers before and called them out and blocked. I had to do a deep dive to send her info to back my disgust. Thank you, John! ❤
Holy hell, 35 million views. Nice job.
My daughter joins these things all the time. I think she's on her 4th one now.
I keep telling her to stop wasting money. I sent her this. Let's hope she believes you.
My sister is the same way. I tried pointing it out over and over and it does no good. She hangs on every word these scammers say.
It is the “dream” that they all convinced to be a member. And if a recruiter touches people’s heart, ambition, emotionally they will join with you no matter what.
No matter what it cost. And that’s the problem, ALL MLM companies are giving people fake hopes & dreams. Only the Top 10 will succeed in a Bad way by pleasing people’s money, begging them to join, convincing people till they trust you. Giving people fake hopes & dreams is not good. It’s bad. It’s sad because i was there. I’ve been there done that. Please spread the truth, share the facts even though it’s hurtful but it is still a *Fact.*
They use actual psychological manipulation techniques that were discovered in the past from research that was funded by governments and marketing/advertising moguls to find out how to influence the subconscious through advertising and other techniques to trick the brain into being interested. Its pretty shady stuff when you really think about it
You might want to show her this documentary czcams.com/video/He1bgJ0sqtw/video.html
@@bennettdejoya2 I've been wanting to but I know the second she reads the title she will automatically dismiss it. I've been trying to find a way to get her to watch it as it's a awesome documentary
If someone ever says to you, "I have a business opportunity for you" and/or there is a whiteboard in their living room, best leave...
And you will never have any opportunity in your whole life
roopa v that doesn’t make sense
My aunt said that quote exactly 2 days ago.
Now now, there's nothing inherently wrong with whiteboards. I have a whiteboard and it has never been involved in any business opportunities.
This this is on top in India. We are fighting against this scam. So that people can save their lives and money.
My ex wife was wrapped into Young Living selling essential oils and it was truly disheartening. Never really sold many oils but made money off off people who didn't have money to stockpile product but had to. It was scary and sad. The insanity of the scheme ultimately led to the end of our marriage. Thankfully.
One of, if not, my favorite John Oliver episodes. I've seen this ten times at least
The fact you cant buy from a store and have to buy from other people make it sound like a drug dealer ring.
This is that winning perspective m8e.
Atleast you can make a living off Drug dealing
Except that with drugs, the business model doesn't revolve around recruiting your own competition.
hahaha right, if the product was any good, they would sell it at stores
Drug dealing is also a pyramid scheme. The people at the top keep most of the money and everyone under them has to peddle the merch. The only difference is that the product actually is in demand, and if you try leaving you might end up dead.
Those things are so pyramid shaped you can probably find a mummified pharaoh in there somewhere.
That was hilarious...NOT.
Oho, the good old bait and switch. Wow, that kinder garden level insult really blew my socks off. Good work, fella.
I was just trying to stoop down to your level of intellect, and couldn't get there. Fella. LOL
The reason you couldn't get there was probably that you were heading in the wrong direction.
I know what preschool "humor" looks like. You probably had to look up how to spell "pharaoh." LOL
This video was very very healing for me! I love you John Oliver! This was 100% spot ON! I am glad I am out of this industry - even though many people come "after me" to sign up again....NEVER
Had a friend who told me she was considering a MLM. I showed her this and she changed her mind.
8k dislikes from all the people selling supplements on Facebook
Or now on Instagram.
Those Lularoe "reps" are pissed.
dolebiscuit and Primerica reps
@finn bell prove it
finn bell how do you know how much they made last year?
"It's not a pyramid scheme....its a triangle of opportunity "
😂😂😂😂 It's a square without one side
under-rated
It’s a reverse funnel system.
“Triangle of opportunity” I love it!
@@curiousculture3415 😂
John in 2016: “Hello Beyoncé. I’m a big fan.”
John in 2019: *Works with Beyoncé in the Lion King*
I'm guessing she watched this video 😆
Wondering if our little otter made it weird, or if he played it cool ;P
They likely never met during production. Celebrities doing voice acting usually show up to the recording booths whenever it’s convenient for their busy schedules. They knock out their lines quickly and leave.
It means repeat
Shit, id taste her||:
I was in an mlm called Cutco, they deliberately target highschool and collage kids and won’t give you cold leads, you have to sell to your family and their friends. It was heart breaking to ask my family for money I knew they did not have.
I remember I got a mail letter from them right after I graduated high school. Went to their “meet up” and bleh. That was not for me. I’m so glad I didn’t buy into it.
I got a letter from them fresh out of high school about their “exciting job opportunity making $40/hr part time”. I feel incredibly validated in my decision to look them up a bit and decide it was too good to be true.
I have cutco stuff. I bought at a trade show. They never pressured us to sell. But they are effing crazy expensive. So that is a scan in itself lol!
"Collage kids" are far too young. That has to be illegal.
I got targeted by them when I graduated high school. I'd never even heard of them or their sister company Vector so I looked them up. I'm glad I did because there was no way I was going to sell anything, much less door to door. That's stupid and dangerous.
If you ever feel stupid, remember 13k people dislike this video
There is a reason for that. And it’s not stupidity, i love John Oliver, but there is a lot he left out, like what the ones who went from rags to riches building their own business had to become that others arn’t willing to become, “recruiting” isn’t the only way to build a community.
In my opinion drinking every weekend is cult like ritual with nothing to gain but fake laughs.
But no one talks about that scheme.
@@atomangelo9940 keep drinking that Kool aid bud.
@@atomangelo9940 what? What normal business has to do with this type of company?
there are many possible reasons to dislike the video other than supporting MLM companies (which I take is what you imply)
@@vibovitold Such as?
My girlfriend is dabbling into this with makeup. The sellers throw big parties and everyone does each other's makeup and then try to peddle their brushes and little shit, and then tell the girls, "Now you can throw a big fun party like this and even make a little money too!" I've always warned her it was a pyramid scheme. I can't goddamn bloody hell fucking wait to show her this video. GG as always John Oliver
I hope she proves you wrong so she can dump your average behind.
HUGO c Pyramid junkie confirmed.
average Joe to 9:5 job confirm haha
Is it Rodan and Fields? Because one of my friend's mom works with them and I didn't know it was a MLM until I saw this video.
As a side note; these aren't pyramid schemes, they're different. And as a rebuttal - my mom has been selling Mary Kay for 16+ years and she absolutely loves it. We've even gotten 4 cars out of it that our family uses.
I remember watching this back when it came out and never finished it...youtube decided to show this video on my feed and saw that I only finished half of it. I was 24 then....im 31 now. Man has life changed for me since then. I think I was watching this on my way to gradschool and totally forgot to finish it.
You aren't tested until a company you own and believe in is down 30-40-50% from its highs. You will question your conviction, your strategy, your process. The market has a way of finding your breaking point. Nothing tests your conviction like falling stock prices.
The key is knowing what you own and getting the best price possible. Falling prices give you the opportunity to lower your average cost. It’s a gift.
The deeper the correction the greater the chances of new positions and hence clarifications.
@@marianparker7502 It'S not the first time someone had advised on this. I need guide in order to salvage what remains of my DOW stock wrecked by the massive dips. I'll appreciate if I get details with which I can reach Ms Nicole .
SCAM
This is a really common scam / spam that uses different accounts to make it look like a conversation. This is all the same guy. Don't contact him or you lose all your money. Flag all of the scam replies and then the original comment as scam/spam.
You're not a business owner. You bought a starter kit: you're a customer.
It's an old saying but when: "You're given the business" , it means "You're being ripped off", which is old too.
😭😭
So mf true
So true
@@georgegates526 never came across that in all my reading?
Pyramids are in fact graves, aren't they?
MLM's are graves for your money. The ones who really succeed are the guys at the top, while the people at the bottom work their asses off to go up the "ladder".
Petra J. Expensive Graves! Built from human suffering!
Says a lot, doesn't it?
*sdimaryp
Holy sh!t!!!! The Egyptians were right!!!
My dad wanted me to work for Amway like he does, and set up a meeting for me with one of their representatives in order to sell the position. Now, I had no idea what Amway was at the time. The representative said things to me like "You want to have a game console? Well if you work for Amway you can get all the consoles!" and similar stuff like that. I was fairly engrossed by the pitch, but then I spotted something on one of the presentation slides he was using: A small line of text saying "This is not a pyramid scheme". This one sentence immediately rang all the alarm bells in my head, and as soon as the meeting was done I went back to my room and searched up everything I could about the company, found out how terrible it is, and promptly proceeded to decline any following requests from my dad to talk with Amway any further.
Thanks, Dad. You may be a Daily Wire watching guy working for a pyramid scheme who thinks that "men are invading women's sports", but you got me to learn about MLMs and how awful they are. That's the one thing I'll give you.
Man, John Oliver is such a legend 😂
I sent this to the woman I babysit for since she worked for Mary Kay. Next day, she quit.
Nice😂
Wait, quit the MK or the babysitting
Fergus Fisher lmao probably both
You saved her from wasting her life on MLM. Unfortunately now she has more time and might not need a babysitter anymore. I hope this wasn't how it turned out, but kudos to you for saving someone's life!
The mom quit MK.
Actual conversation during a introduction meeting where I unknowinly got dragged by a friend.
"I knew a pregnant woman whose baby tested positive for down syndrome. She began drinking this and when it was born, the baby was no longer down syndrome"
"are you telling me this product cures down syndrome?"
"no, I'm just saying the baby tested for down syndrome and was born normal following consumption of this product"
It removes chromosomes people.
That explains it way too much.
Might explain why normal people that join those MLM´s are retarded
May not be politically correct but way too funny not to laugh
That has to be the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. The person who made up that lie obviously knew nothing about downs syndrome. And if someone believes that tripe, they deserve to have all their money wasted on an mlm
See this show's video on gene splicing
Thank You John Oliver for this informative video. No more MLM for me.
Glad I saw this from someone in reddit! I was invited and confused about myself since I was just recovering from being absent semester... I was already suspicious during their seminar... Glad this made me understand more. I will decline them. It had been annoying because I was invited 3 times... Once online, twice by the same person at the mall on the small place☹️... Hope it stops.... My mental health is affected by their guilt tripping and hitting my weaknesses... They are forceful, consistent, and desperate since it is literarily true... The products are overprice and most of their income is from referrals...
You shouldn't feel guilt from those pieces of shits. It's just plainly psychological manipulation
It’s a shame they’re trying to take advantage of you. I hope you blocked them or they left you alone at this point.
The scary part is how they make you feel like it’s YOUR problem that you’re not making profit... they make you believe you must be a loser to not succeed in their “business”.
Yes! Politics do this as well.
People who fall for this shit deserve it
Thats horrible, im sorry that they made you feel that way 😔
It's a tactic that cults use as well. They praise you during initiation and then devalue you. Then you have to work harder to warm back their favor. Also if it's always your fault, then the company is never responsible.
Please do another video on MLMs. They've been running rampant during COVID-19.
Timeshares are an even bigger scam now.
Yes, they do indeed and my mother is a victim too.
@@hexostatus4658 I know, I watch many of them. This show is aired on television and can get the message to a different audience.
Have you ever used their products or you just lazy uninformed hater
@@SusieQSydney oh, you want me to have bought and used overpriced products from the... 50+ MLMs out there? ma’am, please watch this video again.
Fun fact MLM and Pyramid scheme are listed as the same thing on the FTC website
Even they are not. MLM are worse.
"not, not a pyramid" 🤣
As someone under 18 I’m lucky to have gained the knowledge that get rich quick schemes never work
You should be proud of yourself. Just remember, when it gets hard is when a loved one tries to suck you in. it's predatory, codependent, and it's the real magic sauce of MLMs. It's like with flat earthers, the truth doesn't matter to them, so you just have to remain strong and draw a line. You can do your best to educate them, but some people are a lost cause, and this can be extremely painful when it's someone you care about - and that's when it matters most to stand your ground, and it can cost you important relationships. The tears in the eyes of the victims shown in that documentary are real (and the disgusting shades of colonialism shown here with rich white folks trying to co-opt other cultures is disturbing as fuck, besides). My exes mom was sucked in to Nu Skin, it was hard to watch.
nice viper profile pic 😂
The old saying if it sounds too good to be true applies here
@@kylezo outstanding
Des tdtrrdtdtdrdrdrdr
Bottom line: If you need 40 people in your network to make a living, then only 1 in 40 people in that MLM can ever make a living.
I know your comment is a month old, and I'm sorry for that. But your comment is just so beautifully succinct and it's the easiest thing to say to people either in an MLM or considering joining one. I will use your comment for some idiots in my life that got involved.
My boss needs 2000 employees and only him and maybe 3 others at the top are making a living. Less than 1% for sure.
yet all 2000 employees have a living, salaries, benefits, peace of mind, some get commission.....
@@tomnguyen1999 nope we get lied to and scammed, work holidays with no holiday pay, get floating time but they don't tell you it's halved, every 2 holidays you work you get 1 day off and of course it can only be used non peak. Salaries are cut too forcing you to take medical and therefore paying you less for the "deal"... Who are the scammers?
@@jessicabellandy5687 You are getting fucked , get a real job. You are just playing the victim
very happy i saw this a few years ago, because recently this info became very useful to me. a friend of mine got sucked into an mlm recently and thanks to this video i was able to recognise quite quickly. i’ve warned her about it and am so thankful that i may have just saved her a lot of stress and money in the future
This is one of my favorite episodes. Shines real light. But somehow these companies continue
The single most amazing fact about MLMs for me, is that you quite literally have a higher chance of making money in Vegas than you do in any of these pyramid schemes, regardless of what they call themselves.
Considering the house advantage over you is something within 3% (i.e. 47 against 53) if memory serves, yeah those casinos are fucking honest businesses compared to MLM companies.
And you at least get free drinks in Vegas, rather than whatever crap you were supposed to be selling.
Basically the only way to make money from an MLM company, or any other pyramid scheme, is by starting your own, then using it to scam other people out of their hard earned money!
I would describe the industry as the wild West but without the sheriff
..and in Vegas, you get free drinks AND usually show tickets, a room, or meals, or something else comped. I don't care for gambling either way but at least if you go in with $500 you know you're getting some entertainment for your net loss.
Do you want to be rich?
Work your own hours?
Be your own boss?
Why don’t you try selling this great new product:
COCAINE?
At least cocaine works, and how!
If it ever gets legal am first in line
Cocaine. It's one hell of a drug.
@@mealexman If it ever becomes legal, selling it on the street will be even more illegal than it is now, because it'll be considered a controlled substance like alcohol.
@@janesmith1840 yea i know was talking about opening a real shop
A "friend" who was having financial problems hammered me with a Beach Body pitch. I say hammered because he wouldn't stop talking, and I couldn't get a word in edgewater. I was embarrassed for him but it ended our relationship.
You should tell everybody you know about MLM scams and have them do the same, or you'll be approached again and again.
3:58 I was already thinking about commenting how MLMs are a mix of pyramid scemes and religion but you said it for me.
I almost joined an MLM a month ago. I declined it thinking that it would be to good to be true. I'm 18 so I didn't have any knowledge about the thing until this video popped up on my recommendations. Thank God.
Edit: The MLM company is like if Netflix and Skillshare had an evil baby. My "friend" lied to me about making a last groupie before leaving. So I sat there at Mc Donald's for half an hour thinking it'll be a last hoorah, but well, there I saw him with some other guy in company uniform with a pen and paper. He lied to me and it did hurt my feelings. I won't be seeing my friends for a long time and as the last meeting, he thought it would be a great way for him to sell me out to some shady company. I'll never forgive him.
Hey i am 18 too i have been watching explanations on MLMs like Shanann Watts' Thrive company she worked for... I still dont get a way of a simple explanation as to why it wont work
@@amanda-us1rt what I know from the MLM interviewer guy that approached me, basically it's like a fountain. The water goes down and pumped back up. Imagine the pouring water is the assets and profits while the pumping water to the top is the profits. So let say, you're the bottom part of the fountain. You got the money but you first need to give it to the CEO which is the top of the fountain. The water is pumped on top then the rest of the water is distributed towards layers and layers until finally you got your share but it's insufficient to make a profit and buy back the assets which intern makes it unprofitable.
I breathe Napalm yup and my friend is in a Vasayo scam. People are so gullible. I bought into it but quit at 300
I breathe Napalm same
You are young and need life lessons? Here is a key one... don’t get you life lessons from this show if you want to have a chance at success.. enjoy it for what it is - moronic comedy with an agenda
How is this still a thing ?
Avi Bank $$$
Legal loop-holes, lobbyists and some really skilled lawyers.
"There's a sucker born every minute" -P.T. Barnum.... "No one ever went broke overestimating the stupidity of the American public" -H.L. Mencken.... "I love the poorly educated" -Donald Trump
It's not even really legal loop-holes. You'll never be able to stop stupid people from being dooped. Let's be real- basically all of homeopathy is snake-oil.
409 trump=shit
I was approached several times when I was in college to join one MLM scheme or another. I always felt that there was something that just wasn’t right about them, and I chose to focus on my studies instead. After watching this video and seeing how it can basically suck the life out of a person, I’m so glad I never fell for any of them. Also, the fact that NOBODY got the appendix and spleen is actually very sad 😢.
My missus has fallen for this, I told her flat out it’s a pyramid but it’s on deaf ears. I’m just watching at this point 😂
this video stopped me from making a HUGE mistake! i was approached by an MLM and literally when the guy was trying to explain it to me, I just thought of this video. Thanks for so much for this!
Kuhanathan Nerojan go to hell.
Pocahontas lol.. no Need to talk to kids yeah...
Shame on you Kuhanthan for trying to sell network marketing to someone who just barely avoided it by making invalid points. That is perfectly embodied in Pocohontas' comment.
Lonsdaleite Mapping shame on your self whoever... to put the people in trouble by telling on something which u don't even know.. grow up kids.. thus guys is talking just only a company kid.. grow up kids.. my number is there if u can prove me wrong kid. Do u have that guts?
I'm sorry... but you literally just insulted me, called me a child, were redundant, and didn't actually counter my statement. Your response was incoherent. Also, why do I need to call you to prove you wrong? I think your comment embodies why you're wrong.
I'm from Germany (I'm currently using the Google translator)
I contacted a former classmate via Instagram a few weeks ago after 10 years to talk to her about various topics. She was surprised and was happy at the same time. She asked me how I am.
I wrote to her that I often don't feel well because I have epilepsy. She immediately asked me if she could help me. I was excited about this question because my former classmate was apparently very empathetic. I wrote to her that I am very happy about her question, but only my tablets can help me. The next day she sent me voice messages telling me that she had a product that had a "positive" effect on my brain. I gradually realized that she wasn't about me, just about her product ... I tried to convince my former classmate to drop out of this network marketing. Unfortunately it didn't work. In Germany we say "I was talking to a wall" ... now I have written to her that I will leave her alone and no longer talk to her. I am sad, but I know that it was the right decision.
(I hope the translation was fine). Greetings from Germany
One of the insidious things about this type of marketing is that it also preys on people that genuinely do want to help.
For example, my grandmother had multiple strokes and needed intensive 24h care to get back on her feet, and she had one nurse that took on the early care when doctors still weren't sure she'd even survive. And she taught her to eat, to walk, to talk, she reassured my grandfather and helped him navigate expert advise, etc etc - everything you'd want in such a situation.
But she also believed she'd help them by selling them weird homeopathic crap that was supposed to produce miracles. Now (somewhat to my surprise) my grandfather was wise to that and simply ignored it. And maybe you can be cynical about this and say the nruse was faking staying committed to helping anyway in the hopes of making a sale later, but when you turn up years later to a funeral and are genuinely devastated by it I'm prepared to give the benefit of the doubt.
To me she is a person who desperately wanted to help and a company exploited that to market their crap through her. She's as much a a victim of those scheme as those she drags into it.
And that's just not right on any level.
That was written in excellent English. I find it hard to believe that was produced by Google Translate from input German text. In fact, I don't believe it.
You did everything correctly. You told her everything, you tried to help her, she needs to help herself.
Thank you all for your answers 🙏🏻
Awesome translation. Thank you for sharing the story.
Thanks
Saf
czcams.com/video/N2rlwXhtlY0/video.html
I belonged to a weightloss MLM. The lady that talked me into it promised me it was NOT a pyramid scheme by saying it was an MLM. I didn’t realize that was just a fancy way of saying pyramid scheme. I was young and naive, so I signed up and paid $800 for the weight loss kit. I actually made a lot of money the first couple of months bc sadly, I signed a lot of my friends up, but after that, not much. I was making so much money the first couple of months and promised so much more, that I quit my day job. But after the first maybe, four or five months my business dried up and I had to go back to my old $12 an hour day job. It was very disappointing. Thankfully I didn’t make any major life changing decisions, other than quitting my job. My husband was the real moneymaker in our household so it wasn’t a huge deal. We’re the lucky ones.
I've shared this video so many times. Still very relevant to this day. John Oliver and crew, thank you for this excellent program 😊
Thank you, more people should do the same and get this video to #1 rank.
Germany banned VEMMA and prosecuted the Big Network pushers.
I remember lots of people calling us Nazis when we pulled that, heh.
But its still kinda allowed/ the way of this marketing is there, Lifeplus is selling shakes and pills to lose weight and you can get money if you get others to buy it too, my aunt and uncle are always telling people about this at birthdays or family events...its annoying
Only the cult members. Most of us are smart enough to know better... at least I hope. I had a friend that joined one, and tried to push it on me. I agreed to meet with him but with the hidden intention to try to educate him on how its a pyramid scheme and that he is going to get scammed. He didn't listen and went as far as to attack me, while I was a good enough of a friend to actually take time out of my day to help a friend. He burned a bridge and lost a true friend, but only his unintelligence and stubbornness is to blame.
Sad story bro :(
But are they doing it as an MLM, or are they doing it as affiliates? There is a pretty big difference (although there can be some bleed-over. Some affiliate schemes are tiered, for example.)
You know a business is fake when they focus on the process more than the product
Please tell me how because I don’t want to fall for a scam but so far I’ve meet them (didn’t spend any money) and they share their past with me and how it’s shaped them into being an entrepreneur. But I’m searching up Amway and all I’m seeing are people’s doubts too lol
Amway is 100% a scam. In real life, there are no wealthy entrepreneurs waiting around eager to teach people the secrets to their success. They know many people WISH someone would come tell them the procedure for success...so that’s what they pretend to do. But it’s all fake. Don’t fall for it!
@@thedogdogification People who actually become wealthy entrepreneurs do so because they have some type of special knowledge about how to profit off of a service or product. They're not incentivized to share that knowledge, and the ones who DO tend to see more competition and thus less wealth.
Very well said
@@arcadeinvader8086 they also are usually wealthy to begin with
Most life insurance companies are MLM’s as well. The “higher ups” make their money recruiting. The turnover is ridiculous in that business.
This really did save me from getting signed up for Advocares mlm, my sports coach was so convinced he could help me make money, i told him, "i cant spend my ebt on that" and he shut up real fucking quick , and i now keep his new students from getting sucked into the MLM
Everyone who's played Civ knows Gandi wouldn't go for a rock, he'd find a nuke.
Gandhi's words are backed with nuclear weapons.
Nicholas Hartle He will nuke all threats to world peace.
Nicholas Hartle
He will nuke the shit outta Herbalife
it will be... GLORIOUS
He only wants to cleanse them... in atomic fire.
So, nobody is going to mention the fact that Joe Nobody was presumably buried while still alive?
What!?
I'm pretty sure it's just a Prop for the "Show".
@Poison Sumac You are very welcome in that case.
@Poison Sumac Not sure what Platinum has to do with my failed attempt at sarcasm, but last time I went to the doctors they didn't say anything about my composition.
So I'd assume not?
@Poison Sumac Ah, so then it was a dense insult, got it.
I mean in all fairness, I am a little bit dense.
Mentally that is.
Gotta love rewatching older episodes!
In the early 2000's, when I was in my early 20's and newly married, I worked for a few different MLM's. I didn't know that's what they were called until I was older, but the 2 I worked for the longest was Avon and Home Interiors (which, I don't think exists anymore, the last I heard, they changed their name). I never recruited anyone below me. I worked for Avon because everyone I knew bought it and needed a new distributor. I did very well with Home Interiors. I signed up because my mom and a lot of my family bought their products and they were very expensive. My mom and my mother-in-law (who's since passed) both sold Home Interiors and actually had the same district manager and my husband and I had met as kids before we actually knew each other.
I couldn't get involved with these new MLM's because I don't talk to enough people to sell the products 😂
(Edited for clarity)
It's not a pyramid scheme - it's a reverse funnel system.
into my pocket
B e r r i e s
Mason Hopkins More people should listen to others stuck in a kids’ playground
Except it is or to cite the show “it is not not a pyramid scheme”
When i was much younger someone tried to lure me into amway, went to a meeting and when they said "Its a pyramid but its a upside down pyramid" i was completely out lol
My sister dropped out of medical school because of these schemes, its heartbreaking
That's incredibly sad. Which one of the scams did she join?
😶
Bruuhhh.. 💀
Doctor to scammed? Smfh
I'm sure you're getting unemployment now right ?
@@johndepp750 To whom is your comment directed?
I remember going to some meeting when I was 17 about how I was going to get rich. I got home and told my dad about it. "Sounds like a pyramid sceme to me." Was all I needed to hear.
What's a pyramid scheme?
@Scott you are the worst.
Some of the best advice I've ever heard: if something seems too good to be true, it probably is.
I feel with all the recruiting/preying on people unemployed due to Covid-19, the MLM people have been doing, this video needs a part 2. Showing how specifically vulnerable people are targeted, new MLM companies that are currently on the rise and some of the FTC crackdown that has been going on.
Yes. I would include blessing looms/gifting circles/Ponzi schemes too
Annabella Neko Yes absolutely!
He rather do anti trump videos his masters tell him to do
Nightwishmaster Are your replying to jet blacker or me? 😅
@@athousandlives7231 jet blacker, sorry, I was on a weird interface when I made that comment!
as someone who's parents did an mlm a couple years ago, this is crazy accurate
Linda Rebecca my family are in one I agree
seize the means of production
b h
My buddy fell for erbalife. He tried to reel me in among some other people including family and neighbors. The meeting at the cafe was so cringy!! It was him and some good looking girl meeting with me, I think she was the one that tricked him into it. The meeting was a red flag from the get go since they were trying to sell me a dream or some emotions. The lady was asking me questions like what are some things in your life that are not going well? Do you have any haters in your life? What would you say to to those haters if you ever make it? And of course the whole meeting made its way round to her telling me selling through erbalife would make all the bad things in my life go away and that I will tell the haters off as I drive off in a beemer. Pure scam. So I basically said I dont make any big decisions like buying 1000 package or get into a new job without thinking it over for at least one day, and I go the fuck out of there.
Marie Carter
I once heard someone describe double black diamond ski slopes as for "experts with excellent insurance."
My God this is sad. I knew MLM was bad, but this video really drives that point home. If anyone has ever been roped into an MLM scheme, I’m sorry for the substantial financial losses you’ve incurred due to one self-absorbed, greedy, disgusting person.