Buying Studio Speakers - Everything you need to know!
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Ceiling looks great.
Great video!
Seeing your content in the finished studio makes me very *very* jelly. Your studio is legit! I’m really happy for you. You must watch these videos back and smile from ear to ear.
Seriously cool!
I don't know the technically explanation but speakers def need the break it period. For me its always been almost a 15-20% different in sound. My SCM25a's sounded ridiculously thin and harsh but they have really smoothed out. Love your unique studio set up, so clean and futuristic ! Congrats on the ATC's so sick!
You absolutely do need to break in most speakers and headphones, some as much as 40 hours. This is more relevant for cheaper speakers. The rubber surround and suspension on speaker drivers are both made of elastic materials that loosen up slightly over time. Usually, improvements can be heard in transient response and low end, but that depends on the speakers. Some custom speaker designers who use 3rd party drivers say that some drivers show a continuous improvement well over 100 hours of play time. It really depends on the materials used.
From an engeneering stand point speaker break in is a Real thing. But not in the extend some people say you have to Do. I got a New sub, a dayton audio ultimax 15. Between the First Listening and 2 days of Music and interstellar Later, the sub was 25 DB louder. That is because the plastics and the glue need to be softend through playing them.
But moast higher end manufacturs do the break in in the factory.
neumann clearly said that break was a thing for old speaker but nowadays if a speaker need break in it's just bad engeneering
jbl said there is no need for break in too
Thank you for answering my question Jon, I know I will try and invest a bit into my room acoustics now :))
Room treatment is so important. I'm always puzzled by pictures of audiophile listening rooms with 100 k speakers and no room treatment.
Some people enjoy that live sound of a untreated room. It’s the whole premise of “the band wasn’t playing in a treated venue” thing. In the end it’s whatever you enjoy with HiFi, that said it’s a different game in the studio. Anyway that why I think you’ll see some Uber systems in homes with no treatment. 😋
Good decision going with dual 9” woofers. Most don’t understand enough about woofer latency. Also, you’d only need to go 24hz if you’re doing audio for film or post where ‘feeling’ the rumble is is part of the immersive experience. Otherwise you’d low cut for music anyway 🖤
So true about the value of the investment in the speakers.
I think this is my favorite video in the last months. Even when longer than usual straight to the point and competent. Thank you! How do they compare to your old Eve 3012? Although I know it is subjective and not scientific and there are many factors but maybe you can give a overall percentage how better they are.
I haven’t tried either but I think the mid range (ATCs speciality) and high end is a lot different compared to the 3012’s (AMT tweeter). He closed the port on his 3012’s whereas the ATCs are front ported, so that influences it a lot too
That's a good point about the larger woofers being slower.
3:46 "...some other DJs/producers..." deadmau5 also uses ATC speakers, in an Atmos setup. He initially installed the huge Genelecs, but switched to ATCs pretty quickly.
RESPONSE: SPEAKER BREAKIN
You're wrong! Every single speaker has a break in phase. Yes with certain models, the get a factory break in playtime where they also test the speakers and measure them to make a perfectly matched pair. It's the same like with old speakers. the rubber surround quality changes and settles, after many years of playtime the softener in the material dissipates which makes it move drastically different. In pro studios they get speaker surrounding checked regularly and exchanged if needed. It is a moving part, same like breaks in a car. you also have to break in your breakpads for performance situations.
I had broken in about 26 speakers in the last 2-3 years and miced them befor and after 100h of breakin time, they sound about 2-12% different in high freq and around 8-19% in the low freq depending on the rubber surround material and magnet.
The thing with SENDING SPEAKERS BACK is the BIGGEST BULLSH*T I've ever heard. I'm a big fan of your channel but hearing that from you is SO disappointing. You're setting the seed of a bad thought about all manufacutrers here into the peoples minds. Really unfair.
@@1337murk how about stop watching his channel then.
It depends on the speakers suspension design. Some change a lot in their first 10hrs usually ones that have a very stiff suspension change a lot in their first hours,
yeah, i'm amazed how many misconceptions musicians and audiophiles share to regards of certain things. some say you can't tell the difference between mp3 and lossless (which you absolutely can, night and day), some say you can't hear the difference between 44100khz, 48000khz, 96000khz and so forth (yes you can and the difference is pretty drastic, majorly in the higher end of the spectrum and the smoothness of the high frequencies, also pretty crazy details of layering, you can put 3 songs simultaniously and still be able to discern every individual part of every song at 192 khz). it's hard to hear a difference on 16 against 24 bit though, it is pretty subliminal, but again it is there, because randomly a/bing i get them alsmost always right although I can't articulate what. in short - it's crazy how controversial these topics are given they are so evident to people who really work with sound
You truly haven't done enough research if you believe speaker break-in is discernable or makes any perceptible difference. Do more research! And just because manufacturers say so, doesn't mean they're being honest or correct. That aside, most manufacturer testing provides enough "break-in" any way. There are real tests out there that prove, without a measure of doubt, that "breaking in" provides zero perceivable improvement.
Go research it and prove yourself wrong.
please leave the greeting at the end, it looks crazy good
Hi Jon, thanks for sharing useful information and your experience. I also decided to buy ATC 110 Pro monitors, which will be built into the wall. I would like to know where I could order the same yellow pads (as you mentioned they are used in the railway industry). Thank you, Best, Millo
It would be cool to hear a recording of the new speakers vs the old speakers in that room. Not sure if you've recorded them but would be a cool idea for a video
speaker burn in is hard to measure.. its for the same reason you chose the smaller drivers in your speakers. its less to do with frequency response and more to do with transient speed. as they loosen up a bit they move faster. when they are new and stiff there is more resistance and they move slower. so measuring frequency response with pink noise is is like weighing something to see how tall it is
Hey Jon, don't the front ports make the bass speakers slower in comparison to fully enclosed cabinets like Barefoots?
Jon, use wood with some darker finish on the front wall with the speakers instead of that mirror-like film stuff. It will warm up the room and give it a nice finish :)
new cover will be ordered soon
@@Jonsine Can you tell us more about the method and materials used for the dampening platforms for the monitors, please?
If my opinion is useful. The most important factor is the size of the room. Then we set the point and places of the first reflection. you need to be careful to room because
the low frequency 50/60 Hz wave from an 8 inch speaker is 9 meters long. So the little rooms will colorize the bass
On the other hand, I agree on mixing music in Dolby Atmos. I listened to it on my iPhone but besides you’ve getting used to the Atmos sound quickly, I don’t see any real musical improvement (acoustically spoken). It only projects the sound in a inconvenient soundstage. The lossless feature is a great upgrade they did with Apple Music recently. Dolby Atmos should be used on movies only imho. Stereo sound is still king!
THe spider of a speaker ( subwoofer ) lessens up on tension after a while .. So transients and response does improve a bit ... Its not a huge difference but the response of a used sub is different that a new one .
18:27 mein Traum wird einfache war 😂😂
Vor einem Jahr hab ich meinem cosain gesagt irgendwann in meinem Leben werde ich ATC Boxen hören 🔥🔥
I don't know about speaker break-in. I do know that my new Focal speakers are recommended to be broken in. Focal is a reputable company, if you consider any company to be reputable, and I doubt they would suggest something that has no value.
Okay.. On some things you are right like the room for example being basically THE most important thing. But as a person who build speakers for 7years and knows some ppl who do it professionally i can say that you are wrong about bogger speakers being slower. It's simply not true. Yes they have to move more air and yes the cones are a tiny bit heavier and for that very reason they also have stronger magnets and voice coils. I have heard 18inch woofers that sound very accurate and 5inch woofers that sound like a big mess.
Speakers need break in depending on their design. In general speakers with a very soft suspension on the woofer like your ATC don't have this effect while speakers with a very stiff suspension like a PA Fullrange speaker they have a break in period where the sound can change a LOT. It's like bending a piece of cardboard in this case. First it's very stiff and then it becomes softer and softer until it stays at a certain point. This usually takes maybe 10hrs
I wish I could upvote this video so many times for actually listening to science and not the typical musician/'audiophile' bullcrap.
Most of the fools who claim they can 'hear' a difference after 100h are just responding to how their brain gets used to the sound of their new speakers over time. It's like changing car: after a while you get used to the clutch on your old car, and in many cases the new car clutch will seem 'clunky' until your brain gets used to it.
@16:00 I bought a pair of PSI A25m 10 years ago new for £5500. They've near doubled in price. Could probably sell them for what I paid 10 years ago. Used them every day.
Hast du noch deine hs7 oder 8 und wenn ja könntest du nochmal bitte ein Video machen produziere momentan nur über eine Box brauche um bedingt solche Lautsprecher
Danke schonmal im Voraus
I’ll agree with the speaker break-in, my Adams 77x sounded more or less the same, but the CLA10As (NS10 clone) I got literally woke up with time. It’s can vary depending on to the cone material - the CLA10s have very rigid paper-based cones.
Break in is about to move the woofer at differente speeds. To eliminate smalls frictions. Like an engine break-in. you run it at slow and medium speeds. The break in may change the sound or not. And can take +100 hours. It's just a period of time at the start of the speaker's life.
I am learning music making at home, but I don't know how to approach the sound treatment. Foam is seriously ugly and mineral wool a potential health hazard. I've seen at Thomann some commercial panels that look good. I am not that picky, I will gladly compromise on something eventually, because my room is buzzing when I clap my hands real hard and I know that should not happen. Until I figure everything out I'll focus on music theory.
Anyway, I'm glad you're finally done with the building. I got your sample pack about a week ago. Cool stuff :)
Hey Guys, what do you think about KRK Rokit RP7 or RP5 Studiomonitors for beginners? Is it worth it?
As a former audiophile, I would prefer audiophile speakers over large monitors. Must less expensive for what you get in terms of quality. Most of the good ones have pretty good frequency response with minimal coloration. Look at Paradigm, B&W, Elac, KEF, Focal, etc. There are many places you can go to listen and test them. Get an adequately powered decent amplifier with plenty of power and you are set.
Watch the You Tube channel called GR-Research. It is a guy who actually works on and modifies speakers. You will learn a lot. Guaranteed!
I used to co-design and build my own speakers and bi-amped them with an electronic crossover for maximum control. Tune them to your room with a 1/3 octave graphic EQ. For larger speakers, I would rather build than buy. Much less expensive. I also prefer the sound of larger woofers: 15"-18".
My favorite monitors of all time are JBL 4350s and Altec 604Es. Look them up. One studio I worked at in my teens had 4 JBL 4350s driven by a pair of McIntosh 2105 amps. Unreal sound!
I also believe in using smaller nearfields over soffit or wall mount speakers. You get to hear the direct sound rather than the sound of the room. You will also get a much better representation of the sound if your acoustics are less than optimum. Just about any of the decent brands will work once you learn them.
Personally, I prefer to track and mix using headphones. I can hear things much better, have much better low-end response. Plus, they are much less expensive than comparable speakers and you can record and mix anywhere.
If you aren't sure of your ability to get great sound, invest in mastering services.
If you have an unlimited budget, have the space, can afford acoustic treatment, and want to specialize in mixing and mastering for paying clients to recoup the investment, you can take the path that Jon did.
the sound changes even on the dacs. i almost returned one because of the muffled sound until it started to be ultra detailed. speakers are mechanical - there is a difference
I really like these speakers....I hope I can get a chance to demo them...but used...you would be lucky to get back half...thats the way the audio industry is...Its like buying a new car and driving it off the lot...
Break in or burn in of speakers isn’t bullshit. It has lot of mechanical parts which move like the conus of the woofer for example. Straight out of the box, woofers for example are very stiff and not used to move a lot of air immediately.
Da muss ich dir aber widersprechen. Kenne jemanden der teure Focal Trio 11 Monitore gekauft hat und der Unterschied nach dem Einfahren war enorm (Hersteller verlangt das Einfahren). Autos musst du auch einfahren bevor du sie voll ausfahren kannst, da sonst der Motor mechanische Schäden davon tragen kann und das Gleiche trifft auch bei gewissen Monitoren zu.
what is your room dimensions (volume) ? it looks very small
Have a wonderful weekend 🔊🍻😎
You too!
I just love how jon is so honest with his community
@@1337murk it doesnt matter how much ignorant or less u know, its important to be honest with people around you..and if ur telling me u know everything, then ur ignorant too ma boy...this is entertainment, not a school
,,i know, that i know nothing,, ...keep learning ma boy :)
15:30 Are they forming ~ 2.9m equilateral triangle? ;)
I disagree Dolby Atmos/Spatial Audio adds a lot to songs that do it properly. There's more separation between elements, more space and makes the music generally more enjoyable and deeper. It really is like Mono vs Stereo
@@1337murk true
@@1337murk deadmau5's studio is set up for it I think
i can ear your echo in my studio mate..is it on purpose?
the bass port on the front or rear does not matter. The most important thing is to choose the ratio of size to functionality
Pop quiz: how many sample pack sales = one set of ATCs?
lololol
1 billion 🤔
Apparently ATC monitors burn in' isn't an issue. They leave the factory in perfect working order and their performance will not change over time. Those aren't my words bu the way.
You absolutely need to break in / slow burn your speakers you can massively hear the difference as it’s happening. Has nothing to do we return policies haha.
yezzirr
thats a good point, about buying high end gear and it having a better resale experience then cheep gear will. sometimes we cant give cheep gear away!
maybe on new generation speakers (and music) no much difference after breaking them in...in the old days they where mainly in paper and the tolerances a bit more loosed with older technologies...so an old broken in speaker did sound better ( specially in the ones for musical instruments) another thing very important...an acoustic instrument will improve with the playing time...speakers are the same....in fact I was offering harmonic molecular alignment among my services too
I think you should read some more about ”burn in”,
T/S parameters change a lot (vas, qts, qms, fs etc) when you burn in a driver. Burn- in with speaker means you need to massage them with sinus wave @
20hz for near woofer xmax. En hour takes care of 90% of it.
The spider and suspension that hold the cone up need to have massage.
This is easily noticeable when you listen.
Also caps, resistors, transistors will settle after 5-10 hours.
I don’t know if ATC burn in their drivers from factory. Some manufactures do that..
Break your speakers in people! Lower end and higher end response will change. ATC's have a magical mid frequency response, but what about the outlying frequencies? They need breaking in. Not a super long time, but some break in.
The running-in ("break-in") it's needed for the mechanical elements, just like a car or motorcycle when you just buy them new.
If you blast them straight forward you risk damaging the mechanical components, as they have a physical movement.
Just like your body before a match, if you don't warm up :)
naissssss
Get the Speakers first or finding a Room that you can treat the right way first? As you can imagine the most Home Studio Producers don't have the possibility to make such a huge effort with acoustic treatment like you did in a rented aparment with annoying neighbors! Finding a Room for Studio Purpose these Days in Düsseldorf for a good renting price where you can work undisturbed is really not easy..
You are wrong, you need to break in your monitors. The speaker cones needs time to break the stiffness. That only happens after a good 2 days or 3 days. You can definitely hear the difference. Most music retail stores gives you 30 days to return your purchase.
In Romania I have found it difficult to get anything worth listening to as a demo unit. It's annoying!
Thanks for sharing with us your opinion about the breaking myth, I agree it sounds voodoo bullshit 😂
Please repeat that thing about woodoo bullshit couple of weeks from now.
Loudspeaker drivers are elektroMECHANICAL deviced, so there are mechanical parts like cone/dome suspension parts that needs to work to come to optimum mechanical response.
You are are audio engineer, you should know that.
Ppl online giving advice always disregard shipping international shipping 🤦♂️ my 299$ Rokit 6's turfed into 700$ after shippihg been looking at HS8'S or Eris8's that's atleast 1500$ shippibg Sucks so much Bout 200K$JMD 🇯🇲
I'm double your age. I can tell you monitors are no differnet that hi end loud speakers. I can have a better sound than any monitors using hifi seperates...mono amps and using ruark exclaibur speakers that are thousands and thousand cheaper than your Atc's. I use a Montage 7 with my simaudio equpent and it's dramtic, emotional and non-ear fatigue in perfect.
I just spent a lot on a set of monitors and 1 sub and have not been happy with them. They sound great but don’t get near loud enough for the amount of money I spent and the praise they get, not to mention the stated SPL level that is obviously BS…..
As far as testing, I couldn’t due to where I live. So I did years of listening to what people said about different monitors in my price range $10,000. In the end I talked to Sweetwater about my room and what I thought and they agreed, but yeah not so stoked. Just don’t have enough oomph. I definitely wish I could have tried them first. Lesson here is don’t listen to reviews, go listen like he said and make up your own mind.
And btw; what you said about Hifi speakers are not true. Pleasing? Well, depends on the manufactured and their preference.. also i know many hifi speakers that have a flatter reaponse that most studio speakers so i’m not sure ehat you’re talking about.
Sorry if i sound negative. I watch your videos everyday for 4 years and i think this is the only one i feel is somewhat misleading.
/Johan from Finland
Hi-fi speakers with flatter response? Can you name one? Really curious
@@djpedrocarrilho Swedish Ino Audio for example and there is others like Troels Gravesen construction etc etc. I dont say ATC are bad at all. Don’t get me wrong. Will not reply more here.
about braking in. by my beyerdynamic headphone's sounds bad arround 3 days by normal use sounds 200x better. but by my adam a5x sounds directly good. i recomand play a 1khz 24 hour. you can try 13 days the speakers.
Why would you only play one frequency and not pink noise? And why 1kHz? This makes no sense to me.
16:30 That same exact thing happens with analog gear and also sometimes the price actually increases over time
interesting.. I have midfields and other pairs..no subs yet
Break in is not Vodoo. I'm not going to add to it.
Please React to:
Morissette - Could You Be Messiah (Official Music Video)czcams.com/video/ghI8HLG_JuM/video.html, this is the most beautiful voice and song i have ever heard🎼🎶💕
"Fun speakers". 😄
Big woofers are for 808's. Tight bass comes from 8-10, imo.
No big woofers are for rumble for big explosoons in movies
Big woofers are Rottweilers
It makes no sense to go below 30Hz because 99.99% of the listeners don't have Speakers that get that down low. Even if the specs say so.
it's true, but if your music is being played in clubs/festivals, it should be a consideration if it's worthwhile
@@ACDevastation If your Music is going to get played on Festivals and such .. the Beat below 30Hz is none of your concern anymore ;)
You Could do different Mixes like Club, Festival mix and such.
@@1337murk you are totally right .. but that's Mixing & Mastering for.
@@1337murk well that's the additional 0.01% you are producing for. If this is what you "need" .. go for it.
Learn about wood
KOMPLETNE GŁUPOTY HAHAHA