5 Easy Tips for Better Multi-Person Podcast and Livestream Audio
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- čas přidán 20. 07. 2024
- In this episode we teach you some easy ways to improve you podcast and livestream sound. These include recording techniques such as close-micing, post-production skills like railroading, and a quick demo of how an automixing system works. Implementing even just one of these tips can elevate your sound from mediocre to amazing! Let’s take a closer look.
If you’d like to learn how to make great dialogue audio for your film and video projects, please have a look at my courses including processing dialogue audio in Adobe Audition and DaVinci Resolve/Fairlight, recording sound, how to use the Zoom F4, F6, F8, and F8n, and how to get the most from the Sound Devices MixPre series of recorders. Our latest courses cover Sound for Live Streaming with the ATEM Mini and an Intro to Izotope RX. school.learnlightandsound.com
Support my work creating videos by donating at Ko-Fi.com ko-fi.com/curtisjudd
Gear used or mentioned in this episode. The links below are Amazon.com, B&H Photo, Sweetwater, DVEStore, Perfect Circuit, Trew Audio or other affiliate links. As an affiliate, I earn from qualifying purchases:
- SoundDevices MixPre Series Recorders - B&H, Sweetwater, Amazon geni.us/O8e0
- ZOOM F6 audio recorder - B&H, Sweetwater, Amazon geni.us/pCFS
- ZOOM F8n Pro audio recorder - B&H, Sweetwater, Amazon geni.us/fdkN4s
- Mackie DLZ Adaptive Digital Mixer - B&H, Sweetwater, Amazon geni.us/42KrX0
- SoundDevices 888 Audio Recorder/Mixer - B&H, Sweetwater geni.us/zAryW4J
- RODE Podmic Dynamic Podcasting Microphone - B&H, Sweetwater geni.us/BXoJWsN
- ElectroVoice RE20 Dynamic Cardioid Microphone - B&H, Sweetwater, Amazon geni.us/kP1lo
- ElectroVoice RE27 Broadcast Announcer Microphone - B&H, Sweetwater geni.us/OdXTfp
- SHURE SM58 Cardioid Dynamic Vocal Mic - B&H, Sweetwater, Amazon geni.us/c2pxTM4
- SHURE SM57 Cardioid Dynamic Instrument Mic - B&H, Sweetwater, Amazon geni.us/6Dtqb
- SHURE SM7B Cardioid Dynamic Microphone - B&H, Sweetwater, Amazon geni.us/GYU7dHy
- SHURE KSM8 Dualdyne Vocal Mic - B&H, Sweetwater, Amazon geni.us/XKxz
- sE Electronics V7 Handheld Supercardioid Dynamic Microphone - B&H, Sweetwater geni.us/y3cI
- Impact Turtle-Base C-Stands - B&H, Amazon geni.us/8a8tt
- Amaran 200x S LED light - B&H, Amazon, Aputure geni.us/y6ym5V
- Aputure Light Dome II soft box - Aputure, B&H, Amazon geni.us/AuMKRr
- Aputure Spotlight Mount - Aputure, B&H, DVE Store, Amazon geni.us/kfAj
- Rosco Prismatic Glass Gobo in Cool Lavender - B&H geni.us/GWKt
- Canon C70 Cinema Camera - B&H geni.us/ABYB
- Canon RF 24-70 f/2.8 lens - B&H, Amazon geni.us/qwsEs
- Panasonic GH5 camera - B&H, Amazon geni.us/InspOl
- Panasonic 12-35mm f/2.8 II lens - B&H, Amazon geni.us/gr47
The intro and outro music for this episode is from Musicbed - “Dynamo” by Virgil Arles. Take your films to the next level with music from Musicbed. Sign up for a free account to listen for yourself: geni.us/G7by
Copyright 2023, Curtis Judd
#Podcast #Livestream #Recording #Mixing #Automixing
Index
00:00 Summary
00:10 Common audio issues
01:28 Poor setup example
02:01 Tip 1: Close-Micing
02:46 Tip 2: Mic Positioning
03:36 Tip 3: Live Mixing
04:32 Tip 4: Post-Production
05:37 Tip 5: Automixing
07:59 Mackie DLZ Automix
10:07 SoundDevices MixPre Automix
14:22 My Take
14:34 Please buy my courses
"Comb Filtering" is what I always struggled with in post production and i never knew the word for it and you finally scratched that itch. It wasn't until i spent enough time optimizing the setups / positioning that i finally was able to get the idea audio i wanted in my interviews. Thanks for always providing huge value in your content!
Thanks and glad it helped, Kevin! 🙏
Great video! Def gonna buy MixAssist for my MixPre-6
I often auto-mix in post using Dynamics Processor. Works sweet if speakers are moderately consistent in their mic technique. My typical Adobe Audition per channel gain staging: light noise reduction, eq, dynamics processing to squelch/reduce silent potions, hard limit true peaks, tube compressor. Gets great sound every time as long as people are close enough to the mic. Then some master hard limit true peak and some compressors, finally LUFS deliver towards goal :)
Solid workflow, sounds like.
The shure sm58 are so forgiving of huge spaces. Great advice. I use them in 1500 square foot non treated dance studio and you barely hear reverb;) its not perfect audio but 90%
Yes, I agree. 👍
what about the shore beta 58a what's the difference ?
The SM58 has a cardioid polar pickup pattern, while the Beta 58A is a supercardioid. The polar pattern subsequently affects how you should use the microphone and where it would be most appropriate. A cardioid microphone will reject best from the back while a supercardioid microphone will reject better from the sides.@@creativegreatsvisuals
The sensitivity difference between dynamic and condenser microphones is often simplified when people say that dynamic microphones are “less sensitive.” If that was simply the case, adjusting the gain could equalize the output levels for both types of microphones whether the sound was soft or loud, but this is clearly not what is observed in practice. I think this “sensitivity” concept needs unpacking a little.
1. Diaphragm Mass and Inertia: The diaphragm of a dynamic microphone is generally heavier than that of a condenser microphone. This added mass means that the diaphragm requires more sound energy to move. As a result, very quiet sounds or subtle background noises may not provide enough energy to overcome the inertia of the dynamic diaphragm, effectively filtering out these quieter sounds below a certain threshold. This non-linear characteristic makes dynamic microphones less responsive to low-level background noise and helps them focus more on the louder, proximal sound sources, like vocals or instruments.
2. Transient Response: Condenser microphones, with their lighter diaphragms, have a faster transient response. They can capture more detail and subtle nuances in sound, which would include low energy - higher frequency, background noises. Dynamic microphones, with their slower transient response, may not capture these finer details as effectively. This characteristic also makes them less prone to picking up ambient noise and other unintended sounds in untreated or noisy environments.
Those are good tips! I have a situation where there are 3 hosts and one guest, and they want video as well, with MID shots of person talking and a WIDE, so it's pretty crowded in a small space and they want to all face the same direction for the video. I've been using 5 cameras and the Rode SM7B mics. It's mostly good, but they turn to talk to each other and then talk low, and then loud when they get excited about a topic; it's all over the place sometimes.
Indeed. That's a tricky situation. The hosts need to train on mic technique.
thank you so much for sharing your wisdom and experience!! priceless!!
🙏
I had a chance to build a podcast recording studio at a conference recently (first offline recording in a while), including a video with just one camera. And when it’s a single camera angle, you don’t really have many good mic placement options. Fortunately, I had four Shure SM57 mics and MixPre 6 with the MixAssist plugin, and the result was pretty good. I’m glad I didn’t trade my good old MixPre for a fancy RodeCaster :)
Yes, good call to keep the MixPre! 👍
Thank you for the video Curtis. You are a real treasure!
🙏
Very helpful. Thank you.
I have been wondering why I get so much mic bleed when I record at home, but when I'm in a professional studio there is none. This explains it.
👍
Thanks for these really wonderful and useful tips. Really grateful.🙏🎙
Thanks! 👍
My recent problem with multi-person Podcast was that I had a soft talker as my guest. I did enjoy her company in my recording, but she kept talking softly all the way. This means that I had to turn up the gain on her channel even though we did the recording with a pair of dynamic mics and sat with each other 1.5m apart. Consequently, it took me a lot of time to do the railroading in post.
That was indeed a very pleasant conversation. There had been too many times when we talked simultaneously, which means railroading did not work that well. I was seriously considering buy a recorder like Mackie DLZ to make my job easier. (Right now I'm using a RCP2, which I trust very few people in the world would say to be incompetent.) Yet I'm not sure that will solve the problem effectively.
the DLZ auto mix is ok, but not great. The MixPre's makes a bigger difference. But you will still have to gain up for soft talkers and get them closer to the mic.
@@curtisjudd exactly, the right microphone skill is the key
try bphs 2 , adjust the mic close to lips.
Great video as always. My situation is different. Solo is fine, but when I do interviews with 1-3 guests everyone is on a lav. To mitigate crosstalk I use cardioid lavs. These are actually pretty rare, especially ones that aren't super expensive. I then bring all the tracks into Izotope RX9 ( I haven't splurged for 10) and use the De-Bleed function. It's not the normal reason to use it, but, if done right, it can do an excellent job of eliminating another person's, or multiple people's, voice(s). It's tricky when there are more than 2 people, but it can be done.
After that I do my normal audio editing in RX9. It's taken a bit of experimentation to get it right, but it can be effective. Rooms with low noise (reflections) are better than those with lots of echo. Essentially I get a really good isolated vocals for each person. I can then edit them in Final Cut Pro.
So....the real question is...how do they do this live with lavs on news programs? Visually I can't tell if their lavs are cardioid or omni. Either way, they have to be using some kind of auto mix to isolate each person's mic. I know we're talking a big difference in cost of equipment, but is there a lower cost hardware solution? Is the lowest cost solution what you showed? I get good results from what I do already, but a simpler and faster solution would be nice.
At least some of them use Dugan Automix in their mixing console.
Probably not for everyone, but if a more typical digital mixing console is available, applying noise gates can be very very helpful
That's the classic solution. But you have to optimize your mic positioning and you must set the gates up carefully.
Yes, another option and can be used in combination with auto mix. But as @Texturas75 says, it is pretty fiddly and you have to tune mic positions to make it work.
@@Texturas75 Definitely. I've had to record/mix live vocals on a very small stage, and without a ton of post-production time, that was basically my only option, and it worked fantastic.
I want to record myself in my "studio" and want you to grade my set up, chef Gordon Ramsey style. Hahaa. I always appreciate your videos. I learn so much from you.
😂
Simple gate plugin in post helps a lot, too
Yep, helps a little bit. 👍
Thanks Curtis. I'm in the planning stages of recording a podcast with 5+ speakers and your videos and advice are invaluable.
One question: Are there any DAW plugins that do the same thing as an automixer but in post?
There is WT Automaker but I wasn't super impressed with the results I got. You might also try Hindenburg. I think it might have something to help with that.
I believe there is also one for Reaper.
Thank you Curtis. I suffered all the problems you talked about. So good to get all your help.
Q1: is there an AutoMix equivalent on Rodecaster Pro 2?
Q2: is there an Post-production-tool or service for the multi-guest-/mic-bleed-problem?
The manual railroading is heavy work 😂
Thanks Michael. 1) there is ducking, but that only reduces the level of guests when the host talks so not really auto mix. However, the RCP2 does have pretty decent noise gates. It isn't easy to get them all working when you have multiple people in the same space, but if you fine tune mic positions as we described, and ideally spread people apart, it can work pretty well. 2) Not sure, but look into Auphonic and Hindenburg.
@@curtisjudd There is indeed a Crossgate feature in Auphonic Multitrack.
@@user-yj2hu5cn4v Thanks!
Great tips. What would recommend for the headphone jack amplifier to split to many headphones?
I don't have first hand experience with affordable models but I'd try the Mackie HM4.
I missed the budgety Zoom Podtrack P8 in there. I know it's limited to 44.1 kHz as you pointed out in your review, but you also did praise its automix. Is it still a worthwhile device nowadays or have the newer devices like the Rodecaster 2 and the Mackie DLZ totally left it behind?
Oh, you mean the noise reduction feature? Yes, that' helps a bit as well. 👍
I never advocate for buying newer gear just because it is newer. If you're getting good results with your P8, stick with it.
@@curtisjudd I'm part of a multiperson podcast and we already try to do most of what you said yet the bleed is pretty high. Editing 1h+ weekly is out of the picture, so I was wondering what would be a good device (right now we use a normal interface with a laptop) and the Podtrack P8 is the most budget option providing it helps. In your review and compared to the Rodecaster 1 you made it sound like a defining factor.
@@dasnack Mmm, not my first choice and the noise reduction feature helps a little but not a lot. Is the primary issue noise? Reverb? Are you using dynamic mics at close range (within 10cm)? I hesitate to recommend a MixPre if you're not already doing all of those things because they make the biggest difference.
@@curtisjudd Thanks for the follow up answer. The bleed isn't as noticeable as to warrant expensive gear like a MixPre, the podcast (and/or the workflow) would probably benefit more from having some kind of processing like compressors to avoid having to fiddle with the audio too much afterwards (I speak way lower than my podcast partner) so I'll probably look into that direction more than the automix direction.
Thank you for the great video! The automixing feature can make things easier. May I ask what is the black and thin mic you're using when you're alone on video? Thank you!
Thanks yes, that's the JZ Microphones V11 which we reviewed here: czcams.com/video/p4p1nardHPU/video.html
@@curtisjudd Thank you very much!
What do you think about using supercardioids for this application (either dynamic or condensers)? You have to be mindful of the rear lobe, but it seems like they give more options than cardioids for positioning the speakers in the nulls when you can’t be directly facing each other, and they can help with room noise and reverb a bit. I’ve been thinking that some Beta 57As or 58As would be a good podcasting setup.
Sure! Polar patterns are a trade off as you so clearly noted. 👍
Thanks for the video 👍🏻 is the gain on the recorder (zoom f6 for me) is important to reduce bleed? K'm usualy record so that everyone in the room picks at about -6 on the recorder. Because i saw on your video that you pick at around -20 on the mixpre. Thanks
Yes and no, you need healthy levels for the person you’re trying to record. More important to use the other techniques we cover.
Great video.
What's the main vo microphone you're using? I've never seen it before.
JZ Microphones V11: czcams.com/video/p4p1nardHPU/video.htmlfeature=shared
@@curtisjudd Thanks!
Oh yes. Always hated that. Editing the faders by hand was a PITA. What I eved up doing - and an option I don't think you mentioned - was getting a control surface. I would often need to mix for a hour long talk show, where all the mics were just recorded live, and no mixing was done. So I'd sync them up on the time line, plug in my little Korg nano control surface, and hit play. For the next hour I just sat there and mixed it "live". It ended up being a lot faster than doing it with the time line and rubberband volume points. Now-a-days, I would be really susprised if there isn't a plug in that does it and gets you 95% of the way there.
Yes, that's automation. We didn't go into detail, but that's exactly right.
can you exlpain more? thanks.
@@Slingshot4FunTW THe hardware I used was super cheap - I think I paid $30 used on eaby. It's called a Korg nanoKONTROL2 - it just a thing you plug in via USB and has faders on it. You can then hit play on your timeline, and "mix" the sound live just as if you were sitting there live. It's not "automation" at all I would say - nothing about it is automated. But, if you have an hour long program, you'll be done in an hour - and sometimes with a lot of talking heads, that's faster and better then doing it on the timeline with tiny little control points.
@@GeorgeGraves thanks.
Thanks for the topic. I bought a Rodecaster Pro II recently and I was thinking how I am going to resolve this issue since I have been planning to host multi-guest podcasts. I know RCP II does not have Automix but I am not sure whether I have to return it and buy Mackie DLZ Creator. Will it make a worthwhile difference?
Additionally what is your take on using wireless lavs(e.g. Rode Wireless Pro) for podcasts? Are they preferable over a single MKH 50 for two persons?
I wouldn't sell the RCP2 to get a Mackie DLZ. It'd help a tiny bit but not night and day. To make a big difference, the Sound Devices MixPre with MixAssist seems to make a bigger impact as far as automixing - and each person needs to be on their own mic. Mic bleed is potentially worse with lavaliers unless you really space people apart from each other.
@@curtisjudd, I have a MixPre-6 II and I love it, but the form factor and the hardware interface is not made well for a podcast workflow, therefore I decided to buy a dedicated device for this purpose.
Can you tell why lavaliers are worse than a boom or a podcast mic? Is it because of the omnidirectional polar pattern makes them to pick up the surrounding voices even more?
@@elnurvl Yes. 99.9% of lavalier microphones have an omni-directional polar pattern. If you have people in close proximity, they are less directional than dynamic broadcast mics so microphone bleed issues tend to be worse.
Как всегда очень интересно! Привет из России!🎉
Огромное спасибо и удачной вам записи!
Слава Богу за Google Translate!
@@mattwruff Hahaha!
@@mattwruff 😁 это точно!))👍🏻
Hey Curtis! Do you think Earthworks Icon Pro would work well for a setup like this? I know they aren't dynamic (which is why I'm asking), but their rejection supposedly is on par with dynamic mics? :)
Depends on positioning, proximity of each person to the other, and the acoustical characteristics of the room. They can certainly work and sound great, but if people are positioned very close and/or there's a bunch of acoustical noise and reflections, a dynamic used up close may be a better option than the ICON Pro used a little farther back.
I have noticed that if I'm doing the Podcast and running sound I know when I'm speaking. So, as such I know how to do the faders. I just don't trust the auto-mixer (maybe I should) and the quality is good enough (I use RCP2 with 2 Procaster mic's with pop filters).
Trust the automixer, Matt. 😉
LOL Trust must be earned! @@curtisjudd
Curtis, can you tell me what the name of the microphone you are using in the beginning of your video? It's a tall, flat shaped mic.
That's the JZ Microphones V11 which we reviewed here: czcams.com/video/p4p1nardHPU/video.html
I always try to filter the microphones with Noise Gate. Unfortunately with mixed results as it's almost impossible to regulate three microphones for a whole hour.
Yes, it isn't easy. Automix is a massive timesaver for me.
I tried MixAssist on my last 2 person talking head video but I had to use two different microphones - the Schoeps CMC641 and the Sennheiser MKH50. There was a noticeable difference in the noise floor when the mixer was switching between the two. In the end, I just turned MixAssist off. Does it help to use the same mics? Is there a way for me to change something on the fly to better blend the two different microphones?
Mic position is the biggest factor. If there’s a noise source in the pickup range of one mic, best to bet that managed or re-orient the scene.
using mix pre 6 ii with auto mix assist feature for podcast ...how can you synch audio coming from 2 or 3 Shure sm7db mics with one c70 (camera a ) and one r6 mark 2 (camera b ) ?
In post with your video editing app. They all have a sync by waveform feature
@@curtisjudd I know u have video on mix pre 6 ii do u have video on the wave form feature ?
@@creativegreatsvisuals How to sync audio in post? Depends on which video editing app you use. Which are you using?
@@curtisjudd Final Cut x
I cant synch audio of 2 cameras with mix pre 6 ii before post ?
You already get a like and sub alone for the summary at the top of the video!
👍
What kind is it, a Bosch?
(oh, sorry, the dishwasher)
Haha! Yes.
...Listen to this automix fea-THAT'S _SUPPOSED_ TO BE A QUIET DISHWASHER.
😂