Correction: The leveler range control adjusts HOW MUCH leveling the leveler applies. It does NOT control how much attenuation the noise gate applies. By extension, that means I was wrong that the gate needs to be on for the leveler to work - in fact, the leveler range needs to be set to 1 or higher for the leveler to work. Also, note that a noise gate or expander IS NOT the same as auto mix. Automix operates differently and lowers the overall noise level to a sustained level. When done well, auto mix sounds far more transparent than a noise gate.
I think the best description of what a traditional dugan automixer does is “gain sharing”. If you think of the total gain as 1, all the mics split that 1 amongst themselves based on their comparative levels at that moment. So if one person is talking they get like .97 and the other three get .01 each. If 2 are talking they get .49 each and the two silent mics get .01 each. If all four are silent they get .25 each, so the total noise is equivalent to one mic. Now if you used a gate or expander on each coming in, or the outgoing signal, it would clean it up even more.
@@curtisjudd largely I referring to WT itself. For a while, the only software implementation was the Waves Dugan plugin. I also own a Ui24R, and it got an auto mixing feature in v3 of the firmware
Automix is something I find to be both underrated and misunderstood - when I talk to even fairly experienced audio people, they often go "well, just slap a gate on - it's the same" but it's absolutely NOT the same. The core of auto mix is to keep the background noise level around the same level at all time, which a gate will not do. For LIVE usage, like if I'm live streaming a panel discussion, to me, it's invaluable to have auto mix on my Yamaha Cl1 console. For post production, it's definitely a very-nice-to-have because, as you show in the video, you CAN of course edit out the unneeded parts but effectively it's more or less equal to adding a gate = not the natural sound / equal level of background noise you would idealistically want to obtain. Throw in a bit of levelling as well, like this plugin does, makes it a winner for long form content like podcasts, panel discussions etc, I think.
This is exactly what I've been looking for I have mic bleed in my two-person podcast and I spend probably about an hour each week cutting out the mic bleed on each channel. This will save me a lot of time thank you Curtis.
Stumbled upon this video just as I was looking for a way to fix audio for a 4 guest podcast that had a ton of mic bleed on 2 of the tracks especially. Learning about this plugin was a lifesaver and it definitely did the job! Keep this kind of content coming Curtis.
This has been my secret weapon for years. Before this plug-in, I had to run a Dugan system on a separate DAW in real time with a light pipe bridge. When working with multiple lav microphones, it is an absolute godsend.
Also.. To get insanely smooth results when auto mixing don’t compress on each mic channel individually but send all automix mics to a single bus and compress as if one microphone. You retain the benefits of the automix enhanced signal to noise ratio this way.
I have been searching for this for quite some time. I recently shot 8 videos, 30 mins each, with 4-5 lav mics active. The majority of my editing time was on cleaning the audio due to mic bleed. This plug in will pay for itself in less than a week for me because of the style of videos I do. Thanks for sharing this!
I literally discovered this plugin this morning because i was running into issues with Comb Filtering when trying to record a podcast with 2 sets of Rode Wireless Pros with 3 packs recording. I tested it today in Audition and it works pretty good for the most part. Great video, as always, Curtis! Thank you!
I think the leveler Range has nothing to do with the noise Gate (which is cutting the quiet noises away) but it affects how much auto leveling is being done. If you turn it up the autoleveler is heavy duty and agressively changing the levels of each Track. If you keep it down it does adjust but only by a small amount.
BTW, so cool your friend was here in San Francisco! that is a lovely garden. The whole park is probably the best thing in San Francisco. We are so lucky to have it.
Curtis, thank you so much for this follow-up to my question some month ago! With the stereo-mix of Rodecaster Pro 2 the Mic bleed was not that bad. Now I can compare with WTAutomixer 😊
Very interesting! I've played with the automixer on my mixer but it would be better to do it in a plugin like this for recording. I really wish you could use this in Adobe Premiere!
Have you noticed, just about every youtuber and every website that talks about video lightning says this... " the closer a softbot is to your face the softer the light source, you want to have the soft box as close to you as possible, When you move the soft box farther away the light sources turns into hard light" ---- Am i missing something here???? i cant understand how they are all saying this ??? i even saw one guy demonstrate this and i can tell you the light did not get harder as the moved the softbot away.. I'm trying to figure out why everyone is saying that the light gets harder as you move it away from the subject and softer when you bring it closer ????
The larger the relative size of the light emitting surface to the subject (and the relative size is larger when closer to the subject), the more the light can wrap around the subject. That to a large extent, that's the definition of hard versus soft light. A lot of people initially think that hard and soft refer to the INTENSITY of the light and that's not what we're talking about here. Hard versus soft in the context of lighting refers to how slowly or quickly the light transitions from light to shadow - how much the light wraps around the subject and how wide the gradient is from light to shadow. Intensity of light (the setting on your light's dimmer) is a different matter.
I will also add that there is a simplified version of this in every Behringer X 32 or X air. Although it doesn’t have any real controls or fine adjustments , it works quite well.
@iZotopeOfficial needs to make something similar or update Neutron to do multi-channel auto mixing. They're so close, with Neutron already having masking control
@@curtisjuddThanks. I'd love to see a more thorough comparison, if possible. (Btw: If DLZ auto mix is only software as well, I'd like to see it in Rodecaster Pro II, too.)
Last thought: Doesn't an Auto Mix plugin in post production always have the advantage of knowing what's coming next? I mean noise gate of Rodecaster Pro II isn't something I ever used because no matter how you set it up, you always hear it kicking in or letting go too fast or slow, which sounds unnatural. I always and only use a plugin for this job :)
Cheaper working solution would be rethinking mic placement so micbleed would be tolerable - not avoidable but tolerable. Dynamics controll is whole another beast to tame.
Wow, it's striking how much it improves the dialog. It would be cool if it could work on Adobe Audition, but I don't see that one called out on their compatible host apps. I think for video podcasts recorded using an ATEM Mini ISO, editing in DaVinci Resolve, it could make for very easy audio mixing. Thanks for demonstrating this Curtis.
@@aftertheshowmoviepodcast Hi, any tips? I apply it to my track and the window pops up with no tracks in it; just solid gray and with the on/off switch.
Voice 010 Is there a smart gate? It is my situation. I have 2 tracks one for the pastor zoom F2 and 1 for the church congregation Tascam DR60D mark 2. What I need this plugging to do is like a smart gate, basically need to. Open when the Bible is being read and close when the congregation does not participate with any voice. Because even on the congregation track the pastor voice is it noticeable that I wanted to close when only the pastors thought talks and I wanted to open when the congregation participates, this would eliminate the need of my manual intervention off the volume adjusting. In the cases when the Bible is read or when somebody responded participates with their voice. Thank you.
@@curtisjuddI also came to ask this. It would be a good head-to-head comparison. It would also be nice to compare both with the Sound Devices MixAssist plugin.
@@RyanJFleet There are two versions. I expect you heard the non-enterprise version which was recorded with a RODE NT1, Universal Audio Apollo Solo with the Teletronix LA-2A compressor. I did do the post but it was, admittedly rushed - I got about an hour to do the mix.
hi curtis i have watched your show for while.regarding audio. do you have advice how to improve audio from instruments? I play Armenian duduk that is best with reverb.
I'd generally use a small diaphragm condenser microphone, experiment with where to place the mic to get the best sound AND record in a room that makes your instrument sound its best.
Seems like a decent plugin. But $160 seems overpriced for what it does compared to the overall audio plugin market. If compared to time saved, not an unreasonable price. But in market comparison, that price put me off from trying it.
@@curtisjudd Ah, sorry. I had checked their website about half-way through the video. I'm familiar with auto-mixers from my SD833 and the A&E SQ5 console where I use them regularly. The price is definitely justifiable from a time saving when looking at at it business wise, and I might well buy it at some point. My comment was more that I find the price insensitive in the market. I should have clarified that.
Correction: The leveler range control adjusts HOW MUCH leveling the leveler applies. It does NOT control how much attenuation the noise gate applies. By extension, that means I was wrong that the gate needs to be on for the leveler to work - in fact, the leveler range needs to be set to 1 or higher for the leveler to work.
Also, note that a noise gate or expander IS NOT the same as auto mix. Automix operates differently and lowers the overall noise level to a sustained level. When done well, auto mix sounds far more transparent than a noise gate.
I think the best description of what a traditional dugan automixer does is “gain sharing”. If you think of the total gain as 1, all the mics split that 1 amongst themselves based on their comparative levels at that moment. So if one person is talking they get like .97 and the other three get .01 each. If 2 are talking they get .49 each and the two silent mics get .01 each. If all four are silent they get .25 each, so the total noise is equivalent to one mic. Now if you used a gate or expander on each coming in, or the outgoing signal, it would clean it up even more.
@@JonSchwarkyes! I’m unclear on what parts are patented by Dugan and how other auto mixers share gain.
@@curtisjudd my understanding is that the technology has proliferated so much lately because many of the key Dugan patents expired
@@majahanson311 Cool. Where have you seen it proliferate to? I'd love to see it integrated into more mixers and in more plugins for post processing.
@@curtisjudd largely I referring to WT itself. For a while, the only software implementation was the Waves Dugan plugin.
I also own a Ui24R, and it got an auto mixing feature in v3 of the firmware
Automix is something I find to be both underrated and misunderstood - when I talk to even fairly experienced audio people, they often go "well, just slap a gate on - it's the same" but it's absolutely NOT the same. The core of auto mix is to keep the background noise level around the same level at all time, which a gate will not do. For LIVE usage, like if I'm live streaming a panel discussion, to me, it's invaluable to have auto mix on my Yamaha Cl1 console. For post production, it's definitely a very-nice-to-have because, as you show in the video, you CAN of course edit out the unneeded parts but effectively it's more or less equal to adding a gate = not the natural sound / equal level of background noise you would idealistically want to obtain. Throw in a bit of levelling as well, like this plugin does, makes it a winner for long form content like podcasts, panel discussions etc, I think.
👍
This is exactly what I've been looking for I have mic bleed in my two-person podcast and I spend probably about an hour each week cutting out the mic bleed on each channel. This will save me a lot of time thank you Curtis.
👍 Happy recording!
Stumbled upon this video just as I was looking for a way to fix audio for a 4 guest podcast that had a ton of mic bleed on 2 of the tracks especially. Learning about this plugin was a lifesaver and it definitely did the job! Keep this kind of content coming Curtis.
👍
This has been my secret weapon for years. Before this plug-in, I had to run a Dugan system on a separate DAW in real time with a light pipe bridge. When working with multiple lav microphones, it is an absolute godsend.
👍
Also.. To get insanely smooth results when auto mixing don’t compress on each mic channel individually but send all automix mics to a single bus and compress as if one microphone. You retain the benefits of the automix enhanced signal to noise ratio this way.
I have been searching for this for quite some time. I recently shot 8 videos, 30 mins each, with 4-5 lav mics active. The majority of my editing time was on cleaning the audio due to mic bleed. This plug in will pay for itself in less than a week for me because of the style of videos I do. Thanks for sharing this!
👍 Happy mixing!!
I literally discovered this plugin this morning because i was running into issues with Comb Filtering when trying to record a podcast with 2 sets of Rode Wireless Pros with 3 packs recording. I tested it today in Audition and it works pretty good for the most part. Great video, as always, Curtis! Thank you!
Nice 👍
I think the leveler Range has nothing to do with the noise Gate (which is cutting the quiet noises away) but it affects how much auto leveling is being done. If you turn it up the autoleveler is heavy duty and agressively changing the levels of each Track. If you keep it down it does adjust but only by a small amount.
But still thank you for the great video I really appreciate your work 😅
Good catch, thanks
Good catch, thanks
BTW, so cool your friend was here in San Francisco! that is a lovely garden. The whole park is probably the best thing in San Francisco. We are so lucky to have it.
It is a beautiful place. 👍
I truly would love to see a comparison between Behringer/Midas auto mix, Zoom auto mix, Sound Devices mix assist and Dan Dugan Speech.
Me too!
Curtis, thank you so much for this follow-up to my question some month ago! With the stereo-mix of Rodecaster Pro 2 the Mic bleed was not that bad. Now I can compare with WTAutomixer 😊
Glad it was helpful!
Fantastic! Thank you as always for the great breakdown. I’m sold 😂
👍
Very interesting! I've played with the automixer on my mixer but it would be better to do it in a plugin like this for recording. I really wish you could use this in Adobe Premiere!
I haven't tested it, but you might give it a try with the free trial to see if it works.
Have you noticed, just about every youtuber and every website that talks about video lightning says this... " the closer a softbot is to your face the softer the light source, you want to have the soft box as close to you as possible, When you move the soft box farther away the light sources turns into hard light" ---- Am i missing something here???? i cant understand how they are all saying this ??? i even saw one guy demonstrate this and i can tell you the light did not get harder as the moved the softbot away.. I'm trying to figure out why everyone is saying that the light gets harder as you move it away from the subject and softer when you bring it closer ????
The larger the relative size of the light emitting surface to the subject (and the relative size is larger when closer to the subject), the more the light can wrap around the subject. That to a large extent, that's the definition of hard versus soft light.
A lot of people initially think that hard and soft refer to the INTENSITY of the light and that's not what we're talking about here. Hard versus soft in the context of lighting refers to how slowly or quickly the light transitions from light to shadow - how much the light wraps around the subject and how wide the gradient is from light to shadow.
Intensity of light (the setting on your light's dimmer) is a different matter.
@@curtisjudd Thanks Curtis, I really appreciate the explanation.
I will also add that there is a simplified version of this in every Behringer X 32 or X air. Although it doesn’t have any real controls or fine adjustments , it works quite well.
Indeed!
@iZotopeOfficial needs to make something similar or update Neutron to do multi-channel auto mixing. They're so close, with Neutron already having masking control
👍
Isn't their De-bleed made for this?
@@creedoonist de-bleed takes a different approach and doesn't aim to create a consistent room tone like a good automixer does.
@@curtisjudd Thanks, good to know :)
Hi Curtis, thanks so much for doing this video! It is awesome!
🙏
Hi Curtis, please can you let me know the mixer featured - also an introduction to using small mixing units would be great!
DLZ creator then he showed the sound devices mix pre 10ii I think
@RadTein is correct 👍
Seems like a pretty awesome plugin! Have you looked at how it compares to DLZ Creator’s automix?
This is exactly what I'd love to know too!
Subjectively, my first impression is that WTAutomixer worked better than the DLZ’s automix.
@@curtisjuddThanks. I'd love to see a more thorough comparison, if possible.
(Btw: If DLZ auto mix is only software as well, I'd like to see it in Rodecaster Pro II, too.)
Another question regarding DLZ creator: Would it even be better to use their auto mix feature AND this plugin to further improve the quality?
Last thought: Doesn't an Auto Mix plugin in post production always have the advantage of knowing what's coming next?
I mean noise gate of Rodecaster Pro II isn't something I ever used because no matter how you set it up, you always hear it kicking in or letting go too fast or slow, which sounds unnatural. I always and only use a plugin for this job :)
Cheaper working solution would be rethinking mic placement so micbleed would be tolerable - not avoidable but tolerable. Dynamics controll is whole another beast to tame.
Agreed - of course this plugin is not a replacement for all of the other good audio engineering practices.
Wow, it's striking how much it improves the dialog. It would be cool if it could work on Adobe Audition, but I don't see that one called out on their compatible host apps. I think for video podcasts recorded using an ATEM Mini ISO, editing in DaVinci Resolve, it could make for very easy audio mixing. Thanks for demonstrating this Curtis.
It *might work. They also didn’t have Resolve listed so it’s worth a test.
It works in Adobe Audition I bought it today and its working great.
@@aftertheshowmoviepodcast Nice! Thanks for confirming!
@@aftertheshowmoviepodcast That's great, will try it out.
@@aftertheshowmoviepodcast Hi, any tips? I apply it to my track and the window pops up with no tracks in it; just solid gray and with the on/off switch.
Voice 010
Is there a smart gate? It is my situation. I have 2 tracks one for the pastor zoom F2 and 1 for the church congregation Tascam DR60D mark 2.
What I need this plugging to do is like a smart gate, basically need to. Open when the Bible is being read and close when the congregation does not participate with any voice. Because even on the congregation track the pastor voice is it noticeable that I wanted to close when only the pastors thought talks and I wanted to open when the congregation participates, this would eliminate the need of my manual intervention off the volume adjusting.
In the cases when the Bible is read or when somebody responded participates with their voice. Thank you.
Try it and see if it works for you. There's a 7 day free trial.
Hi Curtis, Thank you for the great video. Would you know, how does this plug in compare to Auphonic cross gate?
I haven't tested them side by side so I'm not sure, yet.
@@curtisjuddI also came to ask this. It would be a good head-to-head comparison. It would also be nice to compare both with the Sound Devices MixAssist plugin.
@@AdrianMcIntyre 👍
Please do videos on using USB and XLR mics on the iPhone pro max 15
Ok! Please send iPhone pro max 15. 😁📲
@@curtisjudd 👍👍😅
pro max has prores but lacks pro audio - pleeeeze!!
@@richardstirling5799 Will do once I get an iPhone Pro Max 15 or higher. I usually upgrade every other year so I skipped the 15.
Or use the build in gate in davinci.
Yes, but that doesn’t level or automix.
@curtisjudd You do the VO in the newish webflow video Maximize your site's global reach with Webflow Localization?
Yes!
@@curtisjudd ha I knew I reconginized that beautfiul voice! What was your audio recording setup for that and did you do the post on it?
@@RyanJFleet There are two versions. I expect you heard the non-enterprise version which was recorded with a RODE NT1, Universal Audio Apollo Solo with the Teletronix LA-2A compressor. I did do the post but it was, admittedly rushed - I got about an hour to do the mix.
hi curtis i have watched your show for while.regarding audio. do you have advice how to improve audio from instruments? I play Armenian duduk that is best with reverb.
I'd generally use a small diaphragm condenser microphone, experiment with where to place the mic to get the best sound AND record in a room that makes your instrument sound its best.
@@curtisjudd thank you!
Seems like a decent plugin. But $160 seems overpriced for what it does compared to the overall audio plugin market. If compared to time saved, not an unreasonable price. But in market comparison, that price put me off from trying it.
We talked about that at the end. If it isn’t worth the price to you, definitely skip it.
@@curtisjudd Ah, sorry. I had checked their website about half-way through the video. I'm familiar with auto-mixers from my SD833 and the A&E SQ5 console where I use them regularly. The price is definitely justifiable from a time saving when looking at at it business wise, and I might well buy it at some point. My comment was more that I find the price insensitive in the market. I should have clarified that.
@@JanKlier 👍