Top 10 Heroes in Middle Earth SBG ~ ft. @Zorpazorp and The Green Dragon Podcast
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- čas přidán 26. 07. 2024
- This week we dive into another top 10! This time its the best heros in Middle Earth. I asked the best players from across Australia what they thought was best and this is what they had to say. What do you think? Some people might disagree with this list. What do you think should have been on the list?
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I cant believe no mention of Aragorn, considering his is one of Gondor's only models that can take down enemy heros, has the banner rule, and gets free might every turn.
It's cool how popular this game is in Australia particularly with a disproportionate number of players promoting the hobby through CZcams channels. Wonder why that is?
There definetly is, I think meeting each other at events motivates us to start making our own content. I would never have started if I hadn't met Lachlan from Zorpazorp at Arda Unleashed
@@ConquestCreations Zorpazorp is so great.
Is it big in NZ. Maybe coz that’s where it was filmed? I don’t know lol
I was surprised to not see Elendil! I feel like he's amazing.
He is definitely a rock solid hero! I haven't gone up against him yet since the edition changed and I am not looking forwards to it hahaha
Elendil is one of my top 5. His master forged 2 handed sword is savage. I run him pretty regularly and he has never died in a match thus far. . His best game I’ve had with him so far, he took down 2 Isengard trolls, Lurtz, and the other Isengard leader rocking two swords, including all the other infantry 😅😅 he is a beast
Imrahil's bubble is insane, a 12 inch banner to his entire army plus +1 fight to Dol Amroth models within 3". I feel he should be on this list.
He was on the first draft but just missed out. I totally agree that he is awesome!
No Aragorn?? He Is basically a walking banner, gets free might every turn, and with Anduril, wounds everything on 4+. Surely that should be considered better than everything on this list lol
Not realy, he ist just extremly expensive and only has 3 Will so if you are playing against some magic he is quickly a useless 240p moddel
Great list, great format, great execution. Bravo 👌
Oh thank goodness! When you mentioned Thorin in my mind I was like “yes!”
He is awesome!
I'd actually argue witch king should be top 3 strictly because he has a good auto bag of tricks, multiple armies that he syncs well with all his armies and the ability to adjust his points to fit your army, style and altered tourney pv
Agreed witch king is really good and versatile plus very cost effective
Killing it so far my dood! :D
Thanks for the comment mate!
I love Rumil soo much, very cheap and if supported capable of facing any Big boss like the balrog. Bardo on horse For a top Comander, Dwalin and Durin for a top fighter and Radagast for a top spellcaster. What about Galadriel from the white council? She is awesome
I don't really agree with Helm. Granted, he's a beast in his LL and we found very hard to deal with him at 600 pts and less, since he can just tear apart a D7 warband in a turn. But he's literally the heart of his army and just killing his horse will made him easier to deal with. If the opponent can hard counter this single model, all that's left it's a vanilla army with overall F3 and S3. And he can be kept at bay by 2 shielding elves.
I see what you are saying. I think the smaller the points become the more powerful Helm is. I can see him doing really well in 500 point tournaments simply because people don't have the points to invest into big magic characters but as the points increase and helm is a smaller portion of the army he is surrounded more F3 S3
I have found Helm to be absolutely savage to play against. Never used him, but played against him a few times. The ‘essentially’ two free might per turn is outrageously good. I think he is the king of the late game for this reason, so you need to deliver him to the late game. I get that he works best at certain points levels, though.
Uncommon opinion: the master of Lake Town is incredible for his points!
His ability basically allows him be boromir, and with alfrid he has essentially 5 might(so can use it 5 times)
the 2 of them cost just 70 points together, well worth it in my opinion
As a Laketown player I agree with you
Percy is great for archers too
This is such a tough topic and as you said there isn’t a right or wrong answer and a lot goes down to army preferences and experience with said models. My ones I’d like to see mentioned are Amdur as he is the hero that can make Easterlings competitive and is a top killer. The second, the balrog due to the way it will always, instantly make your opponent think/change plans.
Interesting to see Amdur. I haven't used him myself but when i have played against him he has seemed to lack hitting power. Have you had a different experience?
Good list, but honestly i would put aragornIn the list for always wounding on 4+ and durin as he is defence 9!! with terror, hearthguard, master forged 2 handed axe and all his other many op bonuses
Awesome vid! More MESBG lists and top tens please.
Absolutely man! What other lists would you like to see?
Yes. Top ten troops/archers/calvary
I really love Druzhag. The way he can make out of a spider a hero killer.
Thanks from Belgium =)
Hello, I’m from Brazil and I would love to see your opinion about Aragorn, King Elessar.
Your videos are amazing, Nice job, my friend
Great video as always! Really shocked to see Boromir at #1. I've played him a few times and he loses the horse easily and doesn't get the benefit of the horn if enemy only sends 1 model. Minas Tirith struggles to kill high defense units and he doesn't help there. Great hero just surprised to see him #1. I was most surprised that Galadriel, Lady of Light didn't make the list!
Great work guys! 👍
Lady of Light is really really good. She didn't make it on the list because I think people in Australia haven't really used her much. I haven't seen her on the gaming table yet!
I really missed the Shadow in the list... is the central piece of Angmar's army, and one of the worst annoyances that you can face...
Also, no Aragorn? not even in the honorable mentions?
Some form of Aragon definitely should have shown up. He's a key in the fellowship, three hunters, dead of dunharrow, countless legiondary legions and any Mina's tirith lists
Great video and I can understand all the choices even though I would have chosen some other heroes.
If you are interested in hearing which heroes I would have wanted to be in the top 10, here they are (in no particular order):
Gulli
Witchking
Cirdan
Boromir
Spider queen
Elendil
Suladan
Mouth of Sauron
Kardush
Galadriel LoL
I'd love to hear your opinion on these choices
I agree with a lot of it! Suludan came up when I was discussing the list. The one that I am surprised to see is the Mouth of Sauron. I have never thought that much of him. Compared to a black Numenorean Marshal he is a lot better but I haven't ever seen him as much of a threat. What made you pick him for the list?
I have had the model on my list of models to buy for a long time now so i want an excuse to get him!
@@ConquestCreations Basically because he's the perfect addition to any Mordor army with a named wraith and problay even those without one. He can lead 15 troops which gives you the option to have yellow alliances even at very low points and he can be your leader so you could for example throw Khamul into combat without worrying about him.
He's also perfect to bring march into your list.
4 will points are great to have a 2nd caster but unlike a budget wraith you can use him in combat when he's out of will (so a wraith at 70 pts only gets 2 extra will if he should survive but can't fight, be your leader or lead 15 minis).
Apart from maybe a 3rd might point there's actually nothing I would wish he had as a supporter.
@@ConquestCreations One thing I've asked myself when I was looking at the top 10 was: How popular is magic in your meta? Heroes like Gil-Galad and Dain aren't that popular in my area because of magic.
It is definitely around, There will generally be a few ringwraiths at every tournament. It might not be as popular as it is for you. I am keen to give the mouth of Sauron a shot on the table
@@ConquestCreations We are playing lots of GvE so I guess we have much more wraiths and therefore more Galadriel LoLs.
You should definitely try out mouth of Sauron, I'm sure he won't disappoint you.
Can you do a army tier analysis for both good vs evil tourneys and randomized?
Not a bad video at all, but: No Glorfindel? No Saruman? No Erestor (Point-wise phenomenal)? No Isildur? - I must admit I am a bit disappointed!
I am surprised to see you say glorfindel. I usually prefer Elrond or Gilgalad over him. What makes you like him more?
I had Saruman on the list but decided that other heroes would take his place. I have used Saruman a lot this year his best ability is allowing you to take Grima
@@ConquestCreations F7 is good, move 12" with horse lord is awesome, but the automatic fortify spirit on him just makes him a tank when combined with his maneuverability. Hitting Power is a little lacking but an enchanted blades from Cirdan covers that extremely well
@@ConquestCreations I would say Glorfindel is an excellent choice, combination between Elrond and Gilgalad. He has a sweet fight value (can come very handy against trolls, cave trolls, Ghulavar, ...) which is somehow Elronds weakness, while he has 3 fate points, which is somehow Gilgalads weakness. Furthermore his armor of Gondolin should not be overlooked - a vital thing against monsters - even a cave troll (especially with a hammer - burly) can smash other two in pieces very quickly, if you are unlucky enough. In Glorfindels case he can guard your weaker models/banner-barrers (he cannot be barged), he cannot be hurled, and most importantly he cannot be rended. Not to mention his unbending resolve which makes him almost impossible to pin-down, enchant, to drain his courage, etc., making him even more fearsome. This is another weakness of the other two Rivendel heroes you mentioned - well, mostly of all other heroes. For example, to destroy Gilgalad it is enough to use transfix and then attack him with a troll. Another very huge thing is Glorfindels horse. Asfaloth can move 12'', making Glorfindel faster than other riders, which can come very handy, as you can imagine. Besides that, he gains the fleetfoot special rule and since he also has the expert rider and the horse lord rules, it is very hard to dismount him or slow him down. All-in-all an excelent model. Oh, and of course, he has the Lord of the West and terror special rules, just like the other two. I would dare to say that this is a model with the least weaknesses in the whole game, besides from Sauron of course (and maybe Smaug).
Regarding Saruman - I would say that after adding the Lord of the Istari special rule he became the best spell caster in the game. His ability to re-roll one dice when casting is just gold! Not to mention his Palantir rule (can be decisive in certain circumstances; if nothing else, forces the enemy to sacrifice one might for heroic move, with Grima two), his huge courage combined with free will point and the Voice of Curunir (WILL keep the army together in almost all circumstances), as well as his sweet spell-casting values. And yes, Grima. He is a must have for all 750+ points Isengard armies (which is objectively the best well-balanced army in the game - you have everything: riders, monsters, huge variety of models/heroes, pikes, shields, bows, crossbows, siege engines, spears (from orcs), some models can be upgraded to move faster (in the case of Mauhur), drummers, shamans, fighting oriented heroes, etc.). Maybe the most overlooked evil hero there is.
And regarding Erestor - one of the best heroes you can hope to buy (price-wise). His Noldoring daggers are just priceless. Combined with terror, high fight/shoot values, 2 might/will/fate, high courage - a superb hero for the price.
Isildur is another dirt-cheap hero: Lots of might, will, fate, resistant to magic (in combination with Gilgalad or Elendil), amazing strength (for a good hero) and good all around stats. In combination with a shield, horse and a ring can be a huge pain in the ass! For only 135 points!
Otherwise, I would gladly agree with some of the chosen heroes (WK, Ghulavar, Boromir, Cirdan, maybe even Gandalf the White), yet some I would switch (I would also add Durin). Anyway, hopefully I wasn't too long. ;)
Best regards and props for your videos!
Aiglos is a Spear, not a War Spear, so it doesn’t work as a Lance from horseback. Unless you were referring to its +1 to wound special rule, which is better than a Lance because it doesn’t require a charge or to be mounted. It would be cool if it was a War Spear and they stacked though.
For Gondor!
It’s a credit to this game that people commenting have so many characters they think should be top 10. Which goes to show it is actually quite balanced. And everyone loves what they love
I am glad there are so many comments about different heroes!
This game is incredibly balanced and some heroes might seem weak at first but in the right hands they can be unstoppable
I 100p agree kardush is on it, not above ciridian due to his terror and Blinding light but especially any horde or part horde mordor list including 1-2 wraiths he's amazing.
Were would one acquire lotr miniatures
Goblin King should be at least a honorable mention. 130 points, F6, S5 with two handed and burly, D5 with unlimited 3+ saves against non elven blades and I was able to kill heroes in one combat, the S8 goblin projectile got me a few kills in some games, the monster powers and charging through his own troops. Couple this with Gollum with the ring on and you have 5 attacks and halve the enemy hero’s fight value and you have an almost unstoppable beast. Only dawbacks are his courage and the fact that elfs can destroy him pretty easily. My friends do all they can to avoid fighting him, even with good heroes.
He is pretty solid. I've been using him quite a bit in my Goblin town and I totally agree with you!
Probably not the best, but my favourite is azog, fight 7 strength 5 defense 5(7 with heavy armour) attack 3 wounds 3 courage 5, 3 might 3 will 1 fate. The whaute warf is fantastic, allowing for 6 might 4 will 2 fate 10" movement and cavalry bonuses, additionally, he provides excellent support: 12" stand fast that also affects heroes and master of battle. Killing enemy heroes is so easy, as he never need more than a 3+ to wound and burly allows him to weild the stone flail and eliminate even the tankiest of heroes
He may be expensive, but in my mind he is one of the best evil heroes
Who was that Orc after Dain, Zadush?, can you still buy him?
I agree with you sooo much but I have to say that floi should be higher, in my opinion.
for king's champion, can we use the +2 bonus on defence and the banner reroll on the same turn? and as there are 2 banners, can the king's champion reroll 2 dices?
Even when you have two banners, each model can only reroll once. I am pretty sure you can use both bonuses. You could in 2017, don't know if there's a new rule now.
@@Michael-jq1hl hmmm so if they stick together I have +2 defence and 1 banner reroll... on the king's champion. Nice
it looks like the list of the most expensive heroes not the most useful ones. I know gandalf, helm, boromir, gulavhar etc are fun to play with friends but they are so easy to counter during tournaments. you should consider how consistent the model is, regardless of the point format. look at legolas, he is the most common pick among elven players in more than 15 years. no matter if it is a 500/750/1000 pts game, he is always there. and there are plenty models like him - lurtz, imrahil, shade, shagrat, e&e, all being an important part of their armylists.
Thanks for the comment. I would love to have a discussion! If it were a list of the most expensive models Smaug would have been on it for sure hahaha
That interesting that you find those models easy to counter they do incredibly well at the some of the most competitive tournaments. These models are definitely not straight forwards to use so the list is base on their in game potential. Gulavhar was in the army that won the international master tournament. Gandalf the White I would have said is one of the hardest models in the game to counter. He has an answer for everything, blinding lights, banishment, your staff is broken. How would you counter him easily?
I completely agree that legolass, Imrahil, and Shagrat are great models. Imrahil was one that was originally on the list but got cut out but he is defiently one of the best. I don't think they have the same effect on the battle field as the other models in the list. I am interested that you said the Shade is good. I know a shade won ArdaCon but whenever I have played they they seem easy to counter so i must be missing something. If you split your forces the shade can only be in one place at once and if you go after it with magic it either runs out of will or is out of position. What makes it so powerful?
@@ConquestCreations yeah, smaug is great if anyone can afford him xd From my perspective having expensive models means fewer models on the table. Gandalf the White costs almost 1/3 or even 1/2 of the whole point limit, which means fewer heroes and therefore less might points. Once gandalf is out of them it's easy to spam heroics and just block him with simple infranty units. Another thing with high value models is that they are very tricky to play. Every dice roll counts, every decision, every charge. In good hands sure they are great, but just one bad roll can change entire game. I think that's why in my country I usually see either big armies or annoying monster spam.
And as for gulavhar and master tournaments i remember back in the time when my fellow countryman won UK GT with outriders spam under gamling royal banner, 100% army with bows and unlimited might points. It was crazy op and because GTs are full of great players and exploiters it's hard to compare to "casual players". What I usually see at local level is that people get overly excited about charging with gulavhar/great eagle/fell beast etc they roll max 3 or 4, spend all might points to win one combat or perform heroic action and quickly lose momentum after that.
I think that shade is the most annoying model to play against. I see many players losing their cool, they focus to much on him, try to kill hilm with bows, magic, they use heroics just to charge him and he is bascially a bullet sponge. Also his chill aura makes him best support model in entire game, making normally useless orcs capable of auto wining against anyone. Sure, army basically needs to be placed in a brick, but thanks to the numbers most of frontline should be covered. Another thing is how angmar is scary good against enemy heroes - dwimmerlaik, shade and buhrdur/gulavhar combo can strip enemy side from might points in seconds. Using shade to cover most important fight, keeping close to main heroes makes the biggest difference for me. Fact that I can auto win on 6 or 5 with higher value is something that I miss after switching to different armies. Yeah, he's pretty addictive xd
I totally agree with you. The models on this list are generally pretty challenging to play. Gulavhar probably most of all. He is very fragile with low defence. This list is about which models have the highest potential. Just because a model is easy for casual players to use doesn't make it the best. Having expensive models does reduce your numbers a lot but it allows you to access so many abilities that easily compensate for that. A lot of the armies that have been doing very well at Australian tournaments have been low to middle model count Its really cool that different courntries have different playing styles! I would love to go to Europe one day and play in some of your tournaments. Some of the winning armies is Australia have been the Riders of Theoden, Rivendell knights, Iron Hills, and fellowship + Lorien alliance.
Just like you I have seen heaps of new players throw their big monster in and have it die very quickly with out doing much damage but when it is wielded by a well practiced player it can be almost unstoppable. They are a lot more challenging to use correctly. I think its great that in this game the more you practice the better you become and a new player with a good list will easily loose to a good player with a bad list.
With Gandalf you can just never let him be in a position where he can be easily charged. To get his value he needs to cast a spell every turn so he should only hang out behind your army.
This depends a lot from the tournament style. In germany that list would have been totally different . Top 5 seems to be boromir, lady of light, witch king, legolas, suladan. In an mainly evil vs good enviroment, lady of light is huge, and heroes like dain or thranduil do next to nothing vs shadowking and witchking... gulavar on the other side willl struggle vs a not of good army builds. In personal i regard legolas the best hero in game, he is great in good vs good too and scores the leader wound in most of the games..
But nonetheless, great video !!
I thought gamling is one of the best support heroes giving free might to friendly heroes within 3 inches
He recently was adjusted in an errata limiting his might regeneration to 1 might per turn. He is still incredibly good but not quite as potent as he once was
What about Shades? Up to 8 turns of combat with a minus one on all your duel rolls. That's nasty.
Shades are powerful but but they can be avoided and magic completely shuts them down if they have to burn through there will to resist. Also the courage of 1 means as soon as you break they are either loosing all there will or fleeing. Also if your opponent spreads out the shade can only be in one place at once.
Lurtz
What about Balrog?
The Balrogs is very powerful but there are some very good ways to counter him. He only has 4 attacks without might so he can bitch fights easily and sometimes enemies just keep running away from him.
His strengths are his Goblin mastery which makes all goblins around him fearless and the ability to call heroic combats is awesome
I think my favorite is Sauron
That is definitely a fair call
@@ConquestCreations the downside is he is 400 points however he easily destroys 400 points of enemies and has a 2+ feel no pain which is abs insane in Lord of the Rings, the he is so strong and is easily able to kill basically everyone and I love his passive rule that enables him to strike everyone in base contact and those who are in base contact of them not to mention roasting your enemies alive
“There is only one Lord of the Ring...And he does not share power.”
I love groblog, 3 might for 50 points plus that crown is great.
I have used Groblog a lot and I agree I am a big fan of him. At 50 points he is such a bargain and provides so much into an army list
@@ConquestCreations I just picked up Moria as a faction, Groblog is my S tier. Though I don't know how to fully utilise the cave trolls yet so I've been relying on groblog and Durburz to just generally be good heroes. Wish Balrog was stronger he feels like I'm lightly tickling the enemy instead of rampaging
@@totallyoriginal9741 Interesting that you haven't found the Balrog to be absolutely devastating. What are some of the situations that you have gotten that makes him feel ineffective?
This is an old video but can show off what he is capable of: czcams.com/video/II99A7lEMvA/video.html
I have played the Balrog a lot now. His weakness is that he can loose the fight but after that he is easily able to clear 4 models per turn. When you use his free heroic combat in conjunction with his brutal power attacks he gives you a lot of control over the fight phase, you don't always need to kill the enemy, sometimes a hurl or a barge are the best option. With 10 wounds and defence 9 he is almost unkillable. Giving the goblins around him fearless makes them some of the most reliable 5 point models that you can find. If you pair his whip with a batswarm you can pull heroes out of the enemy lines and assassinate them.
@@ConquestCreations I love the lash. Once in a game with a friend I managed to drag a model in, heroic combat off of it into more models, then barge allowing me to get into the leader. In a little test run I had the balrog go up against the good side of the osgiliath starter set, he ended up still taking 5 Wounds, though there was some very lucky shooting. Should I always be keeping my balrog on the move as much as possible (he has no might so i can't heroic move to get him out of traps). As a hero assassin he could very well be the best though with the fight 10. Just feel like he could benefit from monstrous charge to round him out for that 350 points (I was really surprised to learn he didn't have fly as well).
You have commented that you are relatively new with the Balrog. I would absolutely keep playing him and learning his finesse. 350 points is a very reasonable point cost for him and he is very very powerful. You absolutely want to avoid him being trapped so I would keep him around his Goblins still. You want to keep him in the thickest point of the fighting.
Middle Earth is a game that is easy to learn but hard to master and I think this especially applies to the Balrog
Sure would like to find a Kardush for a reasonable price.
He is a tricky one to get your hands on. You could always do a cool conversion to create him!
If I played this game, I'm sure this would be useful.
No Azog? No Spider queen? No Bard? Heresy!
should have edited the comment out
for me. its the cave drave. very decently priced. can lead a small amount of troops. fast. monterous charge. a area on the board were it it fearless. there is nothing to not like about this guy. the dragon is even weaker then this bloke due to survival instincts being very detrimental to the dragon. and since its not a name hero you can have more then one. whats not to love?.
Been using Gil Galad for years. He's never let me down. Would never dream of fielding an Elf army without him.
Where’s my boy Azog!?! Not even honorable mention! None the less good video!
He is a pretty solid hero, I had him on the first draft of the list but Floi took his spot!
I'm bit disappointed that HELM HAMMERHAND miniature fights with SWORD...?! C'mon, why?
Hahahaha I am with you here but he has a rule that allows him to use his hammer hands to punch his opponent
@@ConquestCreations yea they came out of it somehow :P but in the movie, there was a statue in helms deep… shown during overwiev of fortress. I’m pretty sure that this statue portrayed Helm, shame they didn’t go this way :(