Part 3 - Sony STR-AZ7000ES AV Receiver - Review - User Exp, Sound Modes 360 Spatial Sound Mapping
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- čas přidán 28. 10. 2023
- Part 3 - Sony STR-AZ7000ES AV Receiver - Review - User Experience, Sound Modes 360 Spatial Sound Mapping. This video continues our analysis of the Sony STR-AZ7000ES AV Receiver with user experience with front panel, remote, on screed display (OSD), webpage setup, sound modes, and details of Sony Digital Cinema Auto Calibration IX (D.C.A.C IX), Speaker Relocation / Phantom Surround Back and Sony 360 Spatial Room Correction.
Part 1 video:
Sony STR-AZ7000ES AV Receiver - Inhouse Review part 1 - Overview vs Marantz, Onkyo, Yamaha
• Sony STR-AZ7000ES AV R...
Part 2 - Sony STR-AZ7000ES AV Receiver - Inhouse Review - Speaker Configuration and Calibration
• Part 2 - Sony STR-AZ70...
Sony New 2023 8K AV Receivers - STR-AZ7000ES, STR-AZ5000ES, STR-AZ3000ES, STR-AZ1000ES, STR-AN1000
• Sony New 2023 8K AV Re...
#sony #hometheater #receiver #8k #ripewave - Zábava
Chapters for these would be seriously helpful!
i see ur channel becoming the ultimate go to for these kind of reviews. u r the BOSS.
Thanks for the kind feedback. I am glad this type of content has an audience. -Jon
I own the STR-AZ3000ES, running a 5.2.4 dolby atmos surround setup. Had it since March so I've had some time with it. The spatial surround mapping sounds great to me. I have low ceilings, about 7'6", in my basement, and the spatial sound mapping makes it feel as if I'm in a much larger room. I love the sound. To be fair, I also have all Sony CS speakers, except for the subwoofers to go with it. Love this video review series. Very informative.
My basement theater is also has 7'6" ceilings. I need to spend more time listening, but the 360 Spatial Sound Mapping when enabled can open the room up. Waiting to compare against my reference, but so far it is sounding good to me. Glad the series is helping and you are pleased with you AZ3000ES. - Jon
I just mentioned this in another video, but after finally hearing the Sony 7000ES recently, I’m officially looking to that model for my next upgrade.
I was truly shocked at how well their 3D spacial mapping/room correction works. It made a space with inferior acoustic treatment and 5.1.4 channels (2 channels up firing speakers) speakers offer a better 3D bubble than my 7.1.4 with actually height channels…
Anyways mind blown! Haha great video thougj
Great in depth video
Glad you enjoyed the content.-Jon
Excellent look at Setting this up. As a Yamaha fan I found it all a bit daunting however your explanations made it all seem pretty straight forward. Now onto how all this actually sounds. Hope you get a chance to compare Sony 360 option to Yamaha surround Ai since im thinking they do the same thing. If you get a chance look at feedback on AVS forum on user experience with these receivers. Many are finding great sound quality but too many bugs to warrant keeping it in their theater.
I just have doom early impressions right now on the sound quality. Sony is either in the upper 2nd tier or lower 1st tier. It doesn’t seem to handle bass consistently. Yamaha and Sony go about their DSP differently with different goals. Outcomes on each are very good. I think I will still prefer the Yamaha. -Jon
I had the Sony 7000 and my Denon 3800 connected through hdmi out and made a 7.5.12 running in Auro3D/Atmos. Then I put the sony in 5.1.5.3 360 RA with the denon in 7.4.4. It was cool and I learned for me I prefer more front info than all of the surround. The base layer I didn't double up speakers, but for the heights I spread them out to fill the huge room. Then on the Sony I played with center lift to the front heights, but I placed the those two not high on the wall, since the denon had that covered, and I put them in the corners above the 86 inch tv and that brought some cool center info to front stage.
Very creative setup - combining two receivers into one theater layout. Glad to hear the center lift feature produces positive results. I would like to try that for myself. While I agree that it is easier to perceive sounds across the front stage, I also like it when I hear something coming from behind. -Jon
Which one sounds better for you?
@@nekerrivera Sony by a small margin, but not worth double the price.
good explanation, I demoed a 7000 for a month and went through all of these settings and had the same questions as you. I tried to experiment with some off and some on but there are just too many combinations and in the end it didn't matter as it sounded good in all modes for me. I'm looking forward to you trying out 5.1.5.3 360 Reference Configuration I used it for movies and it had interesting sounds coming from all of those speakers in the center. I had fun putting trying the floor center up to regular center - under the tv, the center above the tv, and then the middle center way high. Then moving the 2 floor centers in various places to experiment for fun.
At some point I stop asking questions and just listen. If it is good, your ears will know. However, I still like to know the reasons why I like and don't like a product. I am trying to determine how I can going to place a second center channel above the TV. I may just fake someone out and not worry about watchin the video for a temporary setup. Thanks for sharing your firsthand knowledge. -Jon
You mentioned the option for "upmixer" in audio settings. I'm curious as to it's implementation as well, especially with Sony not giving many details on its algorithms and determinations in so many areas. I wonder how upmixer behaves in different combinations of surround options, and varriations of other settings that afffect the output.
Another option you mentoned "auto phase matching." I'm also curious how that works, Sony describes it as matching waveforms from paired speakers to enjoy wider sweet spot and more natural sound effects. Well how the heck does that interact with the other half a dozen options?
I like the "center lift option", I try wacky things for fun. I put my two front height (L+R) speakers on my 86 inch tv and repurpose them for help with center speaker/front stage enhancement. I turned the level on center lift up to 10 (0-10 scale) and had a nice opening up of the center channel, with results I liked.
Next I'm going to play with the "in-ceiling setting mode" and instead of the intended use I'm going to put the speakers across the top of my tv to see how that brings out the front stage.
In the 5.1.5.3 speaker config which is cool for it's designed purpose of 360 Reality Audio which different than the similarly named 360 Spatial Sound Mapping. 360RA is for music and custom desgined by the artist's sound engineer to locate music sounds spatially, similar to atmos music. From what I can tell any speaker layout can be used for 360RA music but I like to use the 5.1.5.3 for movies to get new sounds. But what I've found it yes the 3 lower speakers provide new data, I lose the rear and front heights is some formats. I'm still experimenting with what formats do that and how activating 360ssm and other available options interact. Losing those heights is prob not worth it for most uses unless you are running 2 avr's as I am and have another option for getting those lost channels back.
I couldn't find a white paper on the subject nor did I find additional info from interviews from Sony on yt, or sound enginner industry cont ed videos that described how the 5.1.5.3 system handles non 360RA content. I did find a Sony of Japan 360RA website that I was able to submit a question, doubt I hear back. I asked a local vendor to reach out to his Sony rep for details as well, and requested they set it up in the show room to test out 5.1.5.3. I found a couple videos on yt of Sony audio studios that had the setup and they had the speakers mounted on rings around the developer, kind of cool.
Overall a great review again Jon. I learned a few things about this great AVR line. One thing to understand this coming from Sony about their screen. The AVR 's front screen is really designed for installers especially those who have a HT rack behind the scenes. These AVR's also have available rack ears for them. Thus why the screen is what it is, but I agree it could be better for certain. The implementation of both an IP control via computer, smart phone, or tablet is really excellent and most AVR systems are driven this way and most are going forward. I have used both the Sony Music Center App, and the IP App, which both work very well and are very clear to use. The TV onscreen is very good especially if you have a newer TV that supports eARC. I really do not utilize the front panel and screen being the others are more to my liking.
Thanks for filling in some missing elements for me. What I was missing was the Sony Music Center App, I will search for that and discuss in the next in the series. The one point I will make is that if I was an installer, I would still need the front panel larger on the front panel. I can't read even with glasses on. -Jon
Agreed best to take your laptop or even better a tablet to do your work as in installer that way you can roam the room when testing as well. Pro Audio Engineers do this for concerts. The front display is weak but I don't care so many other options.
@@ripewave
Hello Jon. Great overview of all the buttons and menu features. I myself own a Sony STR AZ-5000-ES with a 5.0 system and a learned quite a few things from your video. I will be upgrading my speakers to a 5.1 next month and eventually to a 7.1.4 system next year.
Regarding 360 SSM, For movies and gaming (PS5) I use 360SSM when I am in "AFD Movie". All 360SSM does for me is make my speakers sound louder than Dolby mode.
When listening to music from Spotify, I only use Pure Direct and have not tried Music Audio Enhancer.
I have questions a few questions below.
1. The receiver set all my speakers to Large too. I will go ahead and set my side speakers as Small as you did because my sides are box speakers. However, I don't know what cross frequency to use as I am new to the field of audiophiles. What are your recommendations for cross frequencies for my two Large front towers and two side box speakers. If the answer is complicated can you point me to a website that can teach me what to do?
2. Regarding "AFD Movie" when pushing "Movie" on remote, I am still trying to understand it. I am assuming based on your explanation that if a movie is encoded in Dolby Atmos, "AFD Movie" will play the movie in Dolby Atmos. The difference being that "AFD Movie" mode will upmix the sound and will allow use of 360SSM to enhance the Dolby experience, but Dolby Mode alone cannot use 360SSM and is not upmixed to sound louder. The exact same experience occurs for movies encoded in 5.1 surround as well. Please let me know if I am correct.
Again, the only difference I find between Dolby Mode and "AFD Movie" is that my speakers get louder. There is also a slight change in how the Dialogue sounds between Dolby Mode and "AFD Movie."
Also I have never tried regular "AFD" mode under 2CH/MULTI.
3. If I am correct in question 2, How would you use Dolby Mode, AFD Movie, and regular AFD?
Thank you and please keep the reviews coming!
Nice to explore these new Sony receivers together. I think these are good sounding products - especially since they can bring extra life to less then ideal setups. To address your questions....
1) The simple way is to set them all to SMALL with an 80Hz crossover. If you feel that some of your larger speakers can accurately handle lower frequencies within -3dB of the source, then you could drop to 60Hz or even 40Hz with the best speakers. If you feel your small speakers are really small and not able to handle bass, increase to 90Hz or above.
2) If you select "AFD Movie" with a Dolby Atmos source, I understand it will provide the Atmos signal to the speakers you have, plus be able to add virtual speakers and a wider sounding 3D stage when the 360 Spatial Sound Mapping is turned on. If you hard select "Dolby" instead of "AFD Movie" the 360 Spatial Sound Mapping will be disengaged and you will hear standard Dolby Atmos playback for the speakers you have - which can still upmix using the Dolby Surround upmixer alone.
Louder?) The artifact you have experience with the 360 Spatial Sound Mapping sounding louder should be ignored in your judgement. I suspect Sony may be raising the output in that mode just to add to the perception that it is better. Most people will choose louder as being "better" - it may not be.
3) I would leave the receiver in AFD Movie mode (for movies) and turn on/off the 360 Spatial Sound Mapping as to suit what sounds better for the source material being played.
Thanks for your support. -Jon
I didn't realize how long this was going to be, so apologies in advance.
I bought the 3000ES a while back and compared it to my Pioneer Elite VSX-LX505 (sister AVR to Onkyo RZ50) and I can say it sounded amazing, set up was actually enjoyable, and the OSD was quite nice. In my space though, DCAC IX and 360ssm wasn't any better (or worse) than Dirac from the 505(using the puck mic and Pioneer app to set up Dirac). The convenience of being able to use Sony's own wireless surrounds and sub was and is a very cool and in some cases extremely useful feature. For me the cons were using it day to day, for example the HDMI switching didn't always go to the source on its own like the 505 does and Sony's tech response was quite literally "I don't know how Pioneer is doing it, but it's not magic." Also the OSD volume didn't display on all sources either which would've been ok if the AVR screen was larger. I sit 6ft from where my AVR is and even with 20/20 vision the Sony was hard to see. Finally comparing the apps for both products, the Sony app is extremely basic and horribly antiquated when compared to the Pioneers app. The Sony sounds great and has some nice features, but the day to day use is what ultimately caused me to send it back and stick with the Pioneer
Thanks for that detailed comparison. Usability items mean a lot to me. They can outweigh sound issue. However, you said that for your room (I am assuming your layout and room are more standard then what the Sony technology is designed to solve. -Jon
@@ripewave my room is a townhome basement, so I do have some weird challenges here, but I make it work as well as I can. The Sony seemed to have slightly better object placement, at least perceived. But that could be bc I wanted it to, based on the hype generated not any actual measurements. I wouldn't know how to or if it's even feasible to measure it as far as object placement. In the same token I feel like Dirac in the 505 was more spacious and sounded fuller
After you set it up, then you need to listen to it ! I have an ES 5000. I think it sounds fabulous in calibrated 360 SSM. I bought a laser measuring device to fine tune the distances even better. Right now I have a 5.0 system.
Yes - I was listening to movies and music this weekend and the results are very good. It compare with my processor separate and was fun to listen to. It will likely go on my recommendation list - some of the best results with very little effort.
Did you fine tune all the distances or just the ones they ask you to provide prior to calibration? -Jon
@@ripewave Curious is bass management if done outside unit.
I am not aware of any bass control that is executed as part of the calibration in this Sony model. They just have the standard crossover configuration and low pass filter setting. I suspect some may want to run external tools for bass with this model. -Jon
Thank you for such a great video but I still hesitating between the Sony str-az5000es and the Denon 3800H, any suggestions from you would be appreciated.
Great reviews! Where can I find the AN1000 for $500? I only used and refurbished in that price range
Jon, the mapping feature becomes less of a value if you have all the speakers placed. Especially for a dedicated built HT room. Living Rooms and Great rooms with less speakers benefit more speaker mapping technology by Sony. I find this to be a very noticeable and pleasant improvement for my great room over my Dirac settings I had with my Arcam AVR850.
I suspect you are on the right path with your assessment. This solution seems to be ideal for non-textbook rooms and physical speaker layouts. -Jon
I agree with this. My sister's are placed well, and I don't notice a difference compared to my Pioneer.
My thoughts….Between the two I’ll take the clarinet. Thanks for the extremely in depth review of this piece.
I play piano and organ but feel the clarinet makes for a nice prop for these videos as the goal is for natural sound.
The Sony does sound nice and can compete sonically with other brands. However, I don’t get the superlatives afforded from many reviewers for models which are not perfect. It seems that anything new (other brands included) has a good chance at a rave review. Am I being too critical? -Jon
It feels like you can't go complete rave/fanboy about this given the 1990s-style frontend -- Sony should have done better there for sure. I miss the EQ, but I get that that's sort of Sony's vibe -- the whole thing reeks of "engineer"/"Sony Standard Room" mode. Still, it IS 13.2 (or 13.1-dual at least) and for $3200, that's not bad. Denon's 6800 has yet to ship, but I think this space gets more interesting when that happens. Then it comes down to 360SSM vs Dirac and Sony's center channel lifts vs independent subwoofers.
This is a very good option for those who want one of the best sounding receivers without needing to tinker. Plug and play and trust that Sony has everything optimized as good as it can without needing a calibration expert. And this unit lives up to that from its ease of setup, and great sound quality. It is an appliance and not a show piece but a great value for those who seek the best sound with the least amount of effort. -Jon
Another excellent video. Doing the Lord's work as usual.
That 360 sound mapping looks very interesting. And as I thought, the basic DCAC9 calibration includes angle and elevation of the speakers, not just distance. I think thats gonna make a huge difference in the accuracy of sound placement.
I'm very curious to find out how well the phase alignment works. I try to adjust mine manually using REW but it aint easy.
Very excited to hear your opinion on how it sounds. So far, many users sing its praises. It might give the Yamaha a run for its money.
I appreciate that you continue to tune in and enjoy the content.
I am working my listening tests and will compare with each feature ON and OFF. So I will compare the phase alignment as part of that comparison. As for phase alignment, they may only be doing that for the speakers and not the subwoofer output. I don't see anything in the setup that suggests bass control features beyond the standard crossover setting and low pass filter. -Jon
Jon,
I'm still modifying our A/V room, buying new seating and sound treatments before Atmos spkrs install, but have tested the AZ5000ES very limitedly. Our plan for the AZ5000ES is 5.2.4 or 7.2.4 video only. I will be using a power amp for the front 3 channels.
So many things to like about the unit.
We have a very good dedicated 2-ch music system, so my wants and needs are probably different than many buyers of a theater unit.
I agree with your dislikes and the confusion about spkr distance irregularities. I came to the same conclusion the distances must be measurements from the pink noise test to the seating postion for those values. (change the settings or not?) Someone from Sony needs to clarify.
The speaker size also defaulted as yours- set to "large", no x-over option until setting to "small".
The remote control is terrible compared to the XMC-1 remote we're using. Sony should offer an upgraded remote that I would consider buying. GUI is clunky, not as user friendly on the fly as hoped.(still learning the unit & remote)
Sony makes great TV monitors and they used a dot-matrix type display that requires a magnifying glass??? It's 2023... Even the cheap ChiCom products have beautiful displays.
We use Sony Bravia XBR X900H & UBP X800 and the eARC is not syncing- need to remedy that issue. Getting a Sony was a reason I went with Sony over Marantz- previous HDMI issues
Texas has had night-time storms the past couple weeks and found the unit turned ON in the morning. I have a dedicated, isolated 20 amp line with multiple noise & electrical protections for my electronics and no other equipment is turning themselves ON. hmm
Very good 3-part explaination & evaluation. 👍 Actual listening podcast coming? Hope so
I'm looking forward to a possible AZ7000ES vs Marantz Cinema 40/50 comparison soon too.
I appreciate when there is a firsthand account. Thanks for sharing.
A power amp for the front three channels makes sense if you have the funding. It takes the load off the receiver to focus on the other channels .
I am with you - Sony makes TVs, so you would think a Sony-to-Sony connection would be flawless. I few the same about their HDMI 2.1 implementation missing some features, yet they have the Playstation to show off HDMI 2.1 capabilities. Again falling short on Sony-to-Sony interoperability.
Still a great unit, but these little things keep these models from full success. I would still recommend, but seriously?
Jon
@@ripewave Jon, your podcast are very good; intelligent, well thought out, informative.
Cheers
Thanks so much - glad they hitting the mark
Wonder if it’s possible to record the preout of each receiver to a computer for comparison of differences?
It is possible, to measure with tools such as REW that can compare input to output. Such a test has to be conducted thoughtfully. I made some attempts, but don't feel I has the right process yet for an accurate and meaningful comparison. Something I should revisit again. -Jon
I completely overroad the Distance from Listening position and Distance from Screen. I don't trust software Algorithms. I had the same problem with Dirac. Once I placed actual measurements in these fields my system sounds fantastic and real.
Okay - you have me convinced. What I will do is leverage the 2nd preset to compare. First I will compare against no auto calibration or special features, then I will use the 2nd slot for a second run of D.C.A.C IX but with the distances manually set. Thanks for the tip. -Jon
Cool let us know what you find. What I did was the auto calibration as instructed. I didn't like the settings and the sound. I then did overrides with both the distance measurements of seating position and from screen. I then changed the speakers to small so I can change the frequency crossover points of each as well. I did utilize the 2 band EQ with the center channel which did smooth it out more to my liking. The rest of the speakers were fine. I bet one doesn't need to run auto then make changes like I did but that is how I did it.
For a more precise PEQ of my SVS PB 4000 I will run REW send in the measurement to SVS and they are going to send me the suggested PEQ settings for the subs. But right now I am liking the way they are sounding. I will let you know how the tweak sounds in comparison via preset 2 when I am done.
Nicely done. Yes manual settings do help. I did these settings manually with positive results. Best to use REW to determine the cross-over points - Jon
Sooo.... we set our sizes/crossovers and THEN run the calibration right? And does the calibration respect what we chose, or does it reset them all to "large" every time? thank you
Well....I set those first, and it didn't matter. The Sony D.C.A.C IX calibration changes them regardless. You have to go back in afterwards if you want to adjust. At least for my setup, it want to set all to "large" - odd. -Jon
thanks. I wonder if applying a crossover would make the system no longer as "flat" as the calibration would have made it.... unless it knows to divert that energy to the subwoofer accordingly? I wonder how it works. It seems obtuse.
I think all the mapping features are great, but more and more I'm starting to think atmos is done fundamentally wrong at the directors intent level. With everyone having limited budgets and atmos being a seperate thing that has to be done and just doesn't come passively is not the right choice.
You have these movies with 2 minutes of good atmos in a 120 minute movie. It should be good for the whole movie, not just 1 scene with a helicopter lol.
Auro 3d upmixing fixes that issue, and atmos is working as an atmospheric sound effect for the whole 120 minutes (because auro 3d heights copy the base layer information, but quieter and with some treble modifications)
Sony Sound mappings okay, but my findings, im going to choose a passive atmos product, auro 3d does that.
I find the same true, I test a movie in many formats and almost always the auro3d makes you sit up and react, oh! that's better. I would note without the vog channel it is not as impressive for me, so that is a must for me.
I just rented Barbie, The audio was fantastic on the 5000ES. I think Hollywood is now mixing far better than in the past with immersive audio.
@@garykarczewski6678 that’s good there are a small percentage of atmos movies that have the dedicated time and resources to not push the sound engineers to do a rush crap job.
Agreed. I just order Ford vs Ferrari which is supposed to be a staple of Dolby Atmos. I agree Auro 3d seems to have a huge fan following for movies that are not mixed very well for Atmos being most of them. Me, I wouldn't purchase an AVR just because it comes with Auro 3D. Like Vinyl I would venture to bet a lot of remixing of legacy movies to have a better Atmos experience forthcoming.
I wonder how close this Spatial audio is to Trinnov and how it stacks up the the newer Denon and Maraz AVR.
I haven’t started my A/B/C comparison yet against my Marantz Cinema 50 and Emotiva RMC-1 yet. However, I have listened enough to feel it is a contender. I will say the there are multiple options with the D.C.A.C. calibration whereby the Spatial Sound Mapping is just one option. I feel the 360 Spatial Sound Mapping results vary with the source material - sometime better on, sometime better off. -Jon
Without param EQ it seems like it's an "either auto correction is great or you're screwed" kind of outcome.
Definitely wonder how this all wound up sounding.
I compared my denon 3800 vs the sony 7000 and I preferred the sony but not by doubling the price. I would prob pay $500-700 more for the Sony but but not $1500 more. I'm going to keep my eye on it over black friday and watch how the price goes.
That is a good way to look at it. You should way the sound improvements against the cost. -Jon
How does it sound for 2 channel as well as multi channel music?
It sounds good in both modes. -Jon
I agree especially if you use the Enhancement feature.
How do you upmix stereo music sources into 360 reality audio?
As I understand, there is no conversion from other formats to 360 Reality Audio, which is a source format, not an upmixer. Sony's 360 Spatial Sound Mapping feature will upmix from any source supported by the Sony AVR, including stereo sources. -Jon
@@ripewave Thank you.