Part 6 - Sony STR-AZ7000ES AV Receiver - Inhouse Review - Dual Center
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- čas přidán 10. 11. 2023
- Part 6 - Sony STR-AZ7000ES AV Receiver - Inhouse Review - Dual Center. This video continues our analysis of the Sony STR-AZ7000ES AV Receiver with a test of the Dual Center channel feature. This Sony STR-AZ7000ES (as well as the STR-AZ5000ES and STR-AZ3000ES) provides for three modes to center the dialog in the middle of a standard television:
1: Center Lift - using height left and right speakers
2: Acoustic Center Sync - using internal Bravia TV speakers
3: Dual Center - using 2 center speakers (one above, one below the TV)
These methods are alternates to using a projector and acoustically transparent screen with 1 center channel behind the screen.
We setup and test method 3 - Dual Center in the video and provide our opinion on how well it works.
Other video screen
Part 1 video:
Sony STR-AZ7000ES AV Receiver - Inhouse Review part 1 - Overview vs Marantz, Onkyo, Yamaha
• Sony STR-AZ7000ES AV R...
Part 2 - Sony STR-AZ7000ES AV Receiver - Inhouse Review - Speaker Configuration and Calibration
• Part 2 - Sony STR-AZ70...
Part 3 - Sony STR-AZ7000ES AV Receiver - Review - User Exp, Sound Modes 360 Spatial Sound Mapping
• Part 3 - Sony STR-AZ70...
Part 4 - Sony STR-AZ7000ES AV Receiver - Inhouse Review - Sound Comparison - Moving a speaker
• Part 4 - Sony STR-AZ70...
Part 5 - Sony STR-AZ7000ES AV Receiver - Inhouse Review - 360 Reality Audio
• Part 5 - Sony STR-AZ70...
Sony New 2023 8K AV Receivers - STR-AZ7000ES, STR-AZ5000ES, STR-AZ3000ES, STR-AZ1000ES, STR-AN1000
• Sony New 2023 8K AV Re...
#sony #hometheater #receiver #8k #ripewave - Zábava
Acoustic Center Sync works quite well with my 77” A95L and STR-AZ5000ES. Much clearer dialogue and high frequency sounds; does lift the sound up near center of the television. The speaker quality is excellent on this model, but varies somewhat throughout the Bravia range so your mileage may vary. Unfortunately have to sacrifice my HEIGHT 2 output when using this feature on the 5000ES, so am upgrading to the 7000ES through Sony directly.
Great review. This whole series is very detailed. Well done. I use only the TV as a center channel. The TV is an 83A90J Oled. This uses the Oled acoustic surface audio using the Oled panel as the speaker. It works fantastic. The sound literally DOES come from the screen. Best center setup i have ever had. Sounds great and saves the space needed for the center speaker. The frustrating part is not only does the center amp go unused, you have to give up a set of height channels to do this when no amp is needed at all. The TV is its own amp.
Glad to hear that you have success with the OLED acoustic surface. I have never experienced that technology. I agree that Sony sound provide more flexibility in the channel assignments. -Jon
Brilliant video, thank you!!! I am designing my room for this exact configuration so it is reassuring to see it tested.
I believe that 7.1.4 is currently the main target for immersive audio. Are you implementing the dual centers as in this video? -Jon
A brilliant Review, Sir. I personally think the above center channel 2 was purposely created for in-ceiling speakers. Plus, by adding the center channel 1 & 2 together will create a homogeneous effect in the center of the tv or a short throw laser projector.
I’m seriously considering the 5000es to replace my Yamaha 3040 AVR. I think this would pair with my Sony 75Z9F.
Finally, You are totally right”would it be nice if Sony came out only with a AV processor”.
Thank you for Reviews.
Yes - the ceiling mounted speakers are common enough to have a receiver like this to accommodate. The blending of the upper and lower channels makes for good results. Sony is paying a lot of attention to solving these problems. -Jon
You could always preamp the center channel, use a Y cable to two channels from an amplifier, and use the top and bottom center speakers.
Yes - that would be a good workaround. Perhaps using a MiniDSP to ensure balance and calibration; just like you can do to blend multiple subwoofers with the same. -Jon
problem with 2 centers is they can cancel each other out so you need processing to account for 2 centers. just putting in a y cable and another amp to run a second center will probably not sound good.
I've tried the 2 centers and it's great for me. I equally liked the center raise using the 2 front heights. It is unique and gives an improvement to both dialoge and action in movies. I've experimented a bit on the 86 inch and tried wides with the L&R both above and below the tv. I've tried center lift and placed the heights at spec and also on the top of the tv so it's like 3 center channels, I like that too. I've tried 5.1.5.3 and placed the bottom L&R above and below the tv. I've felt the front sound stage really opens up with all of these and I didn't need as much surround in the rear as most of the back stuff in ancillary but all of the important data is upfront. I did not used to think that until I tried all of this emphasis on the front.
As far as wanting more channels I have a denon3800 that I connected to the Sony 7000 and can get like 10.5.13 or you do the math based on the setup. You can use the sony for wides and the denon for backs, use the dual center of the sony and VOG and center height(way up) or whatever configuration you want. I don't double up identical speakers like front L&R. But I spread all of those rear speakers all over and it's freaking powerful. So the downside is you lose dolby vision I believe and limits to hdr I think. I can run auro3d with atmos though as that does get sent.
This would be a cool feature for me, since I already run 2 centers. However, I am not giving up my Class G Arcam AVR30 with Auro 3D. Back to my centers, I have 2 tower speakers flanking my screen that serve as my center channel. I call it discreet phantom center. It is still a phantom center as the center image is still being created from 2 speakers (as it is with the dual center mode on the Sony 5000es and 7000es). However instead of being created by the processor downmixing the center information to your mains to create the phantom center it is created with physical speakers, and is discreet as they are playing the center information in the mix. The Sony does the same, but they seem to intend the centers to be above and below the screen, that doesn't appeal to me, but there is no reason it couldn't be used for a set up like mine. Many state there are all kinds of issues with phantom center, but in extensive testing I have found that I prefer it over a horizontal center under the screen. One issue that the discreet phantom solves is it still allows you to increase or decrease the volume on the center which regular phantom doesn't let you.
I can envision how a horizontal approach to centering the center channel sound in the middle of the TV can work. What I am trying to understand is how you are able to adjust the volume of the center channel independent of the front L/R channels. I use a real center channel and I like how my Emotiva RMC-1 remote have a Center Trim button set where I can raise lower the volume of that center independently. -Jon
@ripewave I have 2 tower centers that both receive the center signal. I have dual centers like the Sony, only I do it the old-fashioned way in my case running them wired in Series. So left to right I have my left tower, my tower that is a center on the left of my screen, then the tower that is a center on the right of my screen, then my right tower. So I can adjust the level of the "dual discreet phantom centers" as if they were a single speaker. I can't adjust the 2 of them independent from each other as they are treated as one speaker, but their level is adjustable independent of the L/R just like any conventional center is.
Upon rereading my original I didn't make it very clear that I have a second pair of towers serving as the centers in addition to the mains, so 4 towers up front, 2 on each side of the screen.
You are sending both left and right material from both the left center speaker and the right center speaker, so sending 4 signals that when I've experimented didn't work well for me. It seems you would want the left center to send the left only data and the right center to only send the right center in order. But good for you that it works for you. Not here to debate that unique setup, but I will comment on the advanced DSP that Sony utilizes and it works well for me, with both dual center and center lift. I like your experimentation!
@trauma50disaster1 I think you misunderstood. My left and right speakers (the 2 of the 4 on the outsides) are getting the appropriate left and right signal. The 2 on the insides, flanking the screen are both getting the identical, normal center signal. Each of the 4 speakers only gets 1 signal, but the 2 inner speakers on both sides are getting the same signal, the normal center signal.
this is very interesting. i use to always run my center above my tvs and then my current home theatre i moved it below any much prefer it there. i had seen in some of my older Yamaha receivers back from the 6.1 days the option to run dual centers but never tried it as people said it was a gimmick. but with the processing power of these new receivers and processors its interesting that it may come back again, but actually work this time around.
Nice report for experience. I run my single center below my TV and find that the combined angles of speaker and TV get closer to center. Mounting above would be way off. I agree that the technology better supports dual centers now- the effect was better than my standard single layout.-Jon
Would you recommend this over the Cinema 30? I don't need side surrounds on either, but I would be using the front wides, 4 in ceiling, and 2 rear surrounds, plus the normal front and center. I don't have a Samsung TV, so does HRD10+ really matter? I currently have the Sony A80J, but maybe in a few years, who knows? Also, would you go over to Cinema 30 with Dirac?
Let me confirm if I have your setup correct:
Front L/R : ear level
Front Center : ear level
Front Wide L/R : ear level
Side surround L/R : No
Height row 1 L/R : ceiling
Height row 2 L/R : ceiling
Rear surround L/R : ear level
Either model will work. What you get with Sony is the 360 Spatial Mapping which may help compensate for your lack of side surrounds. -Jon
@@ripewave Yessir! That’s exactly my set up with 2 PSA TV 1813Ms
I am equally between tv watching, gaming, and music listening. Just wanna get which would sound better all around. Or would they both relatively give me that same sound, and it just comes down to price and options? The bass shaker and Dirac? Or the 360 spatial
Added an Emotiva BasX A3 amp (140w/ch) this week and it opened up the front stage- dynamics & clarity, especially dialogue. I don't want to use a second Center spkr, the Center is 1 inch below the screen with about 15 degree tilt upward.
Question: has anyone found the receiver ON in the morning after turning it off at night?
3 or 4 times the AZ500ES was ON in the morning. I question if it's an ARC CEC problem.
Because ours is video only, the only inputs are Roku & UBP-X800 BluRay
I agree - if the angles of the TV and bottom center speaker are positioned so that intersect with the main listening position the benefit of the top center is diminished. While I saw an improvement, it wasn’t drastic as mine intersect pretty close.
I haven’t noticed mine turning off at night. It could be a CEC issue. I think you can turn off and see if it survives the night. -Jon
This is an interesting approach. When I first got a center channel, I was surprised at how much clearer the dialog was compared to the stereo speakers on either side of the screen. The speakers imaged very well with music, but the TV dialog did not seem to come from the screen as believably as I had expected, nor was it as clear. I read that because each ear hears the dialog with slight inter-aural delays. Your brain then figures out there is not one source of the dialog. With top/bottom, as long as the calibration gets their vertical arrival time the same, each ear would get the dialog precisely simultaneously. Your setup does look scary, but I wonder if a tiny midrange unit could give you much of the effect, as you mentioned the Sony TV's speaker could do. It might clip on the top of the screen like cameras do on a laptop.
I like your point about vertical timing and agree it is key. With both speakers going through their DCAC IX calibration it is likely a smaller top speaker could be used and the calibration could compensate. Wouldn’t know without trying, but likely. Having a clip bracket for top of screen mount would be nice - great idea. -Jon
I have used phantom center for years and tested it back and forth frequently. I personally always prefer phantom for movies. The voices just sound "stronger" to me with no loss in clarity. I also find this theory that a pair of speakers can create an amazing phantom center image for music, but then the same pair of speakers just fall apart when forced to instead play music.........
The point you make about hitting the ears at different times does make sense, but that should apply equally to music or movies. Additionally, while it makes sense I have not found it in my real world testing for music or movies.
Not meaning this as an attack, just posting a different experience and perspective.
There are certainly challenges with center channels and the forced center upmixing of music can focus all the vocals to the center. The Dolby center spread and Sony’s 369 Spacial Sound Mapping push those back away from such a strong center. How is your approach with non-main listening positions? -Jon
@@ripewave You raise an important issue for center channel listening. Usually, for music, I set the center spread to wide, then set it to narrow for TV. It makes a massive difference in the sound, depending on whether a separate channel was recorded (or mixed) in the first place. Sometimes even with music a narrow setting can sound good if it is a Dolby mix. I'm very curious to hear how the front wide channels affect the overall sound of music. It could be that each instrument in a band gets its own speaker, which would be pretty cool. The spaces where imaging "tricks" your brain into thinking there's an instrument between speakers might be placing one between the right channel and the wide right, or the right and the center, etc.
If content is mixed for front wides, then it is possible to have a discrete placement of instruments. If not, the upmixed content won’t be placed, but rather sound more spacious
Since the Onkyo/Pioneer/Integra higher level AVR's have active line outs I am curious if using an external amp to power a 2nd center along with the internal power to run one would work. I wonder how that affects Dirac or if Dirac would, in essence, "hear" them from the screen despite being slightly different distances from the seating position.
I can be done,, but not ideal. Dirac wants to address each speaker. It could get confused, but is the error minor? Can’t say without trying. -Jon
Love the idea, it would solve the problem of not having an acoustic transparent screen, but with a Bryston tc 1 center channel, at 108 lb , and 10.5H×16.5D×39.5W center channel, would be impossible to do, plus another TC-1, $$$$$$$$......
Costs add up for a little benefit. At some point you can simply move to a project screen for similar costs. -Jon
Hi, so I bought Sony STR-AZ7000ES is there any way to enable two stereo with subwoofer on ? Because in the manual it said Only 2 stereo and no subwoofer!
The Denon and Marantz receivers and processors that can process 13 or more channels can use a Center Height with both Auro3D and DTS:X-Pro.
Not sure if they have a center lift option (I think Yamaha does using the two Front Height speakers) but I do know that Imax Enhanced has a Center Height object in its movies (just like a real Imax theater) that is designed to use the Front Height or Center Height speakers to lift the dialogue to the center of your screen.
Thanks for filling in some details on Denon and Marantz use of upper center channels - I thought was the case so having this confirmation helps. I would like to explore further. Maybe a video that outlines models that have multiple center channel support and whether they include a lift function. -Jon
@@ripewave The denon center hight for auro/dtsx I don't believe is designed for adding to the center channel dialoge. What I've experimented while turning the CH up and the rest of the channels down in level seemed to keep all dialoge out of the CH and instead used more ambient sounds that are designed to be up there like birds or planes. I've noticed auro to somehow really focus on keeping dialoge pretty strict to the center channel and not have much bleed in of dialoge from other speakers as seen is some dolby upmixers.
Great classification of the use of center heights by other sound formats and upmixers. Makes sense that they are using it mainly for ambient sounds and not dialog. -Jon
Am I right that as for the 5000 I'd have to sacrifice e.g. one layer of height-speakers? Because in this case there would not be enough internal amplification for an 7.1.4 layout with two center speaker, right?
Correct, you give up two channels of processing. The two channels not supported by the STR-AZ5000ES is the option for Front Wide or a 3rd round of height speakers. The maximum configuration with a single center channel is 7.1.2. The maximum configuration with dual center channels is 7.1.2 (8.1.2 counting x2 centers). A single set of speaker terminals is shared for Height 2 / Zone 2 / Center 2 (Right Only).
Jon
@@ripewave Thank you Jon. I really hope Sony will go to sell These AVRs in Europe. Would trade my x4700h for an Sony 7000ES.
I am surprised they haven’t brought these new models to Europe yet. -Jon
@@ripewaveMe, too. I already wrote a mail kindly asking if there is still hope for european customers buying the ES AVRs at some time in the future, but they only respondend with some standard marketing chatter 😅
Odd
Have you tried the center lift configuration and compared it with the dual center?
I haven’t as I done have front height speaker. Something I need to add in the future. -Jon
I have, I like either just as good. I even experimented with moving the heights on top of the 86 in tv and that was good for me too for center lift.
Great to have your firsthand experience with those options. Glad that the results are good regardless of choice. -Jon
its an absolute shame that you cant run the s-center with a bravia tv if you are using height 3... and the fact that using a center high option in height3 automatically disables the left terminal connection is such a waste. I was really hoping to have sony brand matching across my tv and AVR, but these specific flaws ruin it for me lol why cant i run 6 height speakers AND the s center tv option... seems like a capable thing but god knows why they didnt enable it... smh lol
Was the Dialogue clearer ?
I wouldn’t say clearer, it was more centered. It was clear, but that I believe was a function of the calibration and my speakers. -Jon
pls always keep the ripewave audio hair flowing long. thanks.
That’s too funny - Jon