Why should we help Gondor? part1
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- čas přidán 17. 01. 2009
- An interesting topic:
Even if someone hasn't been there for us (like, in this case, Gondor hasn't been there for Rohan), we should help him, if he is (or can potentially become) our ally, otherwise we are both doomed...
Solidarity
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"Where was Gondor when I sank the Titanic?"
😂
😂👌
Win
Hahaha wrong universe Slade, I mean Wade XD
Lmfaooooooo
"Why should we ride to the aid of those who did not come to ours?"
"Be pretty cool if you did."
And boy was it fucking cool
@@mongo7106 it was indeed
Because you’ll all die regardless seems a pretty good reason.
Middle Earth is not Wild West, American
"Wow, forget what i said, count on us Gandalf"
As i remember it in the books, Rohan is confused and angry at Gondor's seeming lack of willingness to help. this is in part due to Wormtongues whisperings and rumor spreading. meanwhile in Gondor, the people there are angry at Denethors refusal to go help Rohan.
Denethor’s problem was that he was first obsessed with protecting Gondor at all costs and ignoring everyone else. Then, as the odds seemed to go even more against Gondor, Denethor sunk into despair. His people realized something was wrong and actually were ready to crown Aragorn as king immediately after the siege of Minas Tirith ended. Aragorn, however, still respected Denethor for his efforts in delaying Mordor’s advance and postponed the crowning until later. As Boromir admitted, Denethor was a decent man but he degraded over time.
@@WorldWar2freak94 There are some interesting parallels between Theodan and Denethor. Both about the same age, both lost a wife and a son and have turned against their other son (adopted in Theodens case) and both are in a state of despair. But Theoden chooses to embrace hope whereas Denethor sinks further in to despair.
Were they?
@@andrewstephen2359 Didn't he got corrupted by the palantir and the Witch King as well.
I remember it as Denethor focusing more with shoring up Minas Tirith's defenses than actually spreading his forces to help the common folk because he was playing the long game, at least in his mind.
Pippin's "where-we-going's" are hilarious😂.
Pippin is like that classmate that agrees to work on projects, is totally flexible in that sense, but also has no idea what's going on.
He's the one that asked where they were going after joining the fellowship right?
I bet he didn't read the terms of service.
so basically me ... I'm always so confused
"Why should we help Gondor?"
Because you'll get to make a speech in front of a 100 thousand plus crowd.
_Muster the Rohirrim_
6000
@@realworldforum sauron's army too.
@@youryoureallyare 200000 orcs and 6000 rohirrim,give or take 5000 men of gondor
@@realworldforum 6000 Gondor soldiers and 1000 rohrim were at the black gate and both their army's are bigger
@@EveryoneElseIsWeirdImNormal no 6000 were at the black gate
“What do we owe Gondor?”
That moment you realize that heir to the throne of Gondor just risked his life and limbs to lead Rohan to victory
in the books Gondor called for aid long ago. The beacons were already lit, and Gondor sent a red arrow, to show how dire their situation was.
@@Bringmeoneofthosechickens Yup, and the Red Arrow carrier was caught and killed by the Dark forces. It never arrived.
@@NgocLinh-iv9cg well it never arrived back to Gondor. Rohan did get it.
Which is why he changed his mind and ended up helping. He was still right, Gondor didn't help Rohan at it's brink of extinction from Isengard. Technically he is helping Aragorn, not Gondor.
@@megafarihinable The movies add elements that never existed.
As soon as the Battle of Helm's Deep was over in the Two Towers Book, Theoden was already preparing for War in the East by sending Riders to all corners of the Mark to assemble as many Men as could be spared. The goal was to ensure as many of his Riders would be assembled & ready to both so there were enough Forces to leave a viable defense of Rohan as well as lead as many Riders to Gondor as possible. With War coming sooner, this number Theoden had hoped would be 10,000 but the Errand Riders of Gondor with the latest news of the Enemy's Movements made Theoden decide to decrease this Force to 6,000.
In the Books there is never once even hinted that Rohan held any bad feelings towards Gondor. In fact, due to how "peaceful" the times had been up to the War of the Ring in Third Age 3018 to 3019, the Red Arrow had not been seen in Rohan during Theoden's Lifetime. Small interactions likely occurred with help going between the 2 Kingdoms especially with the Beacon Hills having been established but it had been a long time for the Men of both Kingdoms since the Oath of Eorl was invoked, that Rohan & whoever was the Leader at the time would help Gondor against it's Enemies during times of greatest danger.
*Why should we help Gondor?*
(Starts writing 3000 word argumentative essay)
That's shorter than I expected
@@einflinkeswiesel2695 Because Rohan doesn't have enough time to read a longer essay. They must be ready for war!
Because Mordor has weapons of mass destruction.
Less than a half i hoped for
Ian McKellen is a genius. The way he was able to play two different versions of the same character was genius. You can notice differences in Gandalf's personality once he becomes white. He is more assertive and direct in both his communication and disposition all without losing the warmth that we traditionally associate with Gandalf the Grey.
Wise Wizard
For me he lost his worth the moment he yelled at Pippin in the first movie 😭😭. I know Pip made a mistake but it still annoyed me
@@rohakhalid1846 Well Pippin did deserve it, they could've all been killed and the ring taken away
@@rohakhalid1846.
A pretty serious mistake too, in both the book and movie. Gandalf was quite nice to Pippin in that scene.
@@rohakhalid1846 It makes him better tbh.
Turn on captions. "I saw no lie in Pippin's ass.".
Lmao
I CANT UNHEAR IT DAMN YOUUU
Bhahahahahha
Gandalf the gay
I don't see what's so hard to understand?
Theoden Logic:
Two Towers: "Let's not bother sending for help from Gondor before this big battle of Helm's Deep."
Return of the King: "Why didn't Gondor come help us at Helm's Deep? We could have really used their aid."
Theoden logic. Lmao
why would he ask for help, if gondor did not help in other desperate times in his eyes that would have been a waste because if there's an army big enough to destroy rohan there shouldn't be question to help the only other remaining kingdom of men.
in the book it was only rohan fighting them in helms deep no elves were there.
I always got the impression he was referring to the earlier occasions he mentioned in 'The Two Towers'.
Maybe they had asked for help couple dozen times when the Westfold etc. was burned down, but Gondor decided to just chill.
OJ
When the Westfold was burnt Theoden was still under influence of Corumo/Saruman....he most likely didn‘t call for aid since the invasion of Dunland and Isengard was just ignored by the king of Rohan himself, furthermore Gondor was battling Mordor, Umbar, Harad, Rhûn and Khand at the same time loll...
This FILM has everything in itself.... What a maspterpiece
Yes
And now... Now Ukraine is Gondor of the Free People. And Osgiliath has already fallen. Wonder if anyone will aid us.
"By the blood of our people are your lands kept safe!" so relevent
@@endor4757 Light the beacons. Maybe the men of the west will come to your aid. I know my country won't, but at least the US and the UK will.
@@Rut6534 Lotr Amazon prime be like: but they were all deceived….
@@endor4757 putin is not sauron
I like how powerful this is, because Theoden knows the answer as well and why he changes his mind.
Where was Gondor?
Gondor was there. His _king_ was there. Along side him when all seemed lost and rode out together with you.
Shining Armour ARAGORN was his king ?
@@jordanda1 "His" meaning Gondor's king.
@@shiningarmour6805 Countries are usually female pronoun. Her king was there. Denethor was benchwarming (although in the books he was a lot better at it.)
@@moblinmajorgeneral the Stewards of Gondor have been benchwarming for a 1000 years.
Technically, since Rohan gain their country through a grant of land by Gondor, they are an autonomous state of Gondor, i.e not directly under Gondor but have an obligation toward Gondor. The pact of defense between the two also indicate this special relationship. Their relationship is actually closer to that of Holy Roman Empire and its member state, probably closer that with the Kingdom of Bohemia who is also an elector duke of the HRE.
"the enemeh"
- gandalf
"The Anime"
~Gandalf and
Only Grand Moff Tarkin can say "enemy" like Gandalf does.
ene"MEH.." 😂😂😂
-is on your doorstep
0:07
"There was no lie in Pippin's ass."
i laughed so unexpectedly, i spit all over my phone 💀💀
Omg.... I HATE YOU.... I cant unhear it now.....my brain is telling me pippins ass. 🤣🤣
Gandolf is like "Da fuq did you just say?"
Gandolf is a dog's name.
"His defeat at Helm's Deep showed our Enemy one thing. He knows the Heir of Elendil has come forth. Men are not as weak as he supposed. There is courage still, strength, enough perhaps to challenge him. Sauron fears this."
The downfall of both Morgoth and Sauron. Constantly underestimating the strength of Men.
Well, it took divine intervention to take Morgoth down. Morgoth even got (some) Men to betray the good guys and side with him. Come to think of it, Sauron also of course has plenty of Easterlings and Harad people. Men just aren't that strong for the most part - Númenor and the descendants of Elros being a bit of a different story.
@@Losrandir But at the same time, Men always threw a wrench in their plans, as they were focusing on the Elves, which caused Men to be able to do things like save elven armies from ruin or strike devastating blows against them.
@@LosrandirElves also aren't flowers.
@@professionaldriver77878they sure look like them. ❤❤
It made sense considering even men sided with sauron
Where was Gondor when the Westfold fell?
Gondor fought Mordor for centuries, goddammit
@@captain2ahab yeah yeah but they failed. Isildur himself ran with the ring. Rohirrim were loyal men and brave ...Gondorians were portrayed as weak men
"I dont give a fuck"
YTP :😂
Patriche Will not in book. Gondor fought Harad at south front , Umbar at costline, Khand, Rhun and Mordor at east front alone. Rohan had problem fighting only Isengard. whats more Gondorians are dunedain, they are not weak. Gondor had superior army to Rohan, even better cavalry.
interesting indeed, but Gondor has helped Rohan before the War of the Ring quite some times. The Rohirrim and Gondor had been allies since the Battle of Celebrant and its aftermath. The so-called Oath of Eorl was still applicable during the time of the Lord of the Rings. The reason why Gondor didn't come to the aid of Rohan at the Battle of the Hornburg was quite obvious, they were in war as well.
That, and Denethor was being manipulated and polluted by the Palantir and insanity.
I would've cited the end of the Long Winter of 2758 of the Third Age.
Just the fact that they were busy with mordor was enough for me. Even faramir was informed of the oncoming war from isengard.
"Where was Gondor when Blizzard released Wacraft 3 Reforged?"
It's also amazing when you consider that Theoden questions where Gondor was when they needed aid, without really considering that the King of Gondor rallied him and his people in their darkest hour.
I don't think that really connects for Theoden until Aragorn sprints in saying "Gondor calls for aid."
At that moment it's the rightful leader of Gondor, beseeching Theoden on behalf of his people, and after everything Aragorn has done for them how can he not answer the call?
aragorn has been helping rohan since king thengel´s days
At this point he isnt the king of gondor or even someone sent by gondor hes an heir to the throne but that doesnt make him a king when he isnt crowned.
Admire your spirit but I’m pretty sure theoden was just hesitating because his people had only barely survived, and riding to Gondor is yet more war. He goes with it because it’s the right thing to do, but he still hesitated to consider his people
When Theoden said why should we aid them?Gandalf and Aragorn were like what did u just say?
“Why should we help Gondor?”
“Well I mean...why not eh?”
“K lets go”
In the book it's never a question if Rohan should help Gondor. It was always a given. Actually it's kind of crazy how much of the return of the king was changed storywise in the movies.
But Aragorn literally said Gondor will answer for aid at Helms Deep and Theoden didn't want it. I don't know if that's the case in the book though.
But Gondor literally didn't show up, nor could it have in time. But didn't you listen to Theoden's speech?
There was no Gondor when Rohan had been being assaulted for years, and even though he eventually answers the call, he had to do it alone(with Elves in the movies, but with no assurance that they, or anyone would come).
Ents, aid Rohan.
@@Varyalover I guess, Gondor was involved in a much bigger fight, after all they sit right outside Mordor and were fighting for Osgiliath
Even if Théoden had sent for help, it would have taken days for Gondor to arrive at Helm's Deep.
This was always a little hitch for me. I always understood gondors role was to literally keep the darkness at bay. Never understood why so many people in the novel are pissed that they couldn't send men to rohand because they could look outside the wall and see saurons army massing. Always just accepted it as part of saurons strategy but it was one of the few things I couldn't empathize with any character on.
1:33 When you finish The Hobbit trilogy and feel the irresistible urge to watch The Lord of the Rings trilogy
Gandalf : “bad news and good news bad news Sauron saw everything pipin knows good news pipin knows jack shit and now e have Sauron’s plans”
Beautifully written character was King Theoden. Prideful but insecure. Practical, but yet totally valiant. He has every reason to have resentment against Gondor. He's got the most human side to a king's character I have seen in movies.
He has no reason to have resentment against Gondor.
but I like the fact that Gandalf leaves to Minas Tirith when Theoden just show him huge doubt about helping the Gondor, Gandalf just goes into Minas Tirith as if he was certain Rohan will come :D
Gandalf's commitment to reminding Pippen he's foolish is commendable. Never misses a chance😅😅
0:08 turn on captions.
Gandalf will say "there were no lies in Pipins ass" LMAO
lmfao it's true
I believe him.
hahahaha Pippins ass only contains the truth and nothing but the truth. And shit.
Where was Gondor when Sauron was weak.
The most badass “they will be” ever
I like Theoden Rohan was being burned and destroyed by Sauroman his mind was gone and his allies have seemingly abandoned him. But when the time came he honered an oath that was dead to him and helped Gondor in the hour of their greatest need.
Pippin didn't do so well by accident. He was a true Hobbit.
Gondor sure as heck was there at the Long Winter.
Theoden: "Why should we ride to the aid of those who would not come to ours?"
Gandalf: "Teamwork makes the dream work, Theoden. That is not the fucking attitude, mate."
Gandalf the white owns a set of hair straighteners
So Pippin looking into the Palantir was actually incredibly beneficial for the cause.
“A fool, but an honest fool”
Yes. It actually helped convince Sauron that Aragorn had the ring (Saruman captures halfling with the ring, said halfling looks in Palantir, Aragorn defeats Saruman and takes the Palantir and the ring, showing Sauron reforged Narsil), which is the only reason the march on the black gate worked (marching on the black gate seemed stupid, so Sauron assumed that the ring had got to Aragorn's head and made him ambitious, so Sauron just had to defeat Aragorn, and he could reclaim the ring and win the War of the Ring).
Pippin's folly set up this scheme which distracted Sauron from his real doom, and on the day that Sauron declared victory in his heart, he lost everything.
Theoden was a slightly couragous fool. He only made one good decision, when he changed his mind and went still. He discarded all advice from wiser people then himself. Thank good eomer became king of rohan after he died.
So were Rohan and Gondor the only two remaining Human Kingdoms left in Middle Earth?
There was Dale,a couple others depending on how u count.Harad and Rhun were there,but evil.
Nice to know Dale was still around. I guess I was wondering about how many good human nation. Every time I see a map of Middle Earth I can only notice Rohan and Gondor.
Of the major ones, I believe so (not counting Easterlings and Southrons). There were minor ones here and there though, like the aforementioned Dale.
Dale have business of their own fighting alongside Erebor against the Easterling. Speaking of the last, they were humans but like the Haradrims they joined Sauron
CoolsBreeze Bree exist which is a good nation not really a kindom tho. And there exist the wild men that lives in dunland but they are evil
Damn that Jeep ad with Bill Murray recreating Groundhog Day must have cost a pretty penny !
Gondor faced a much bigger threat (from Mordor and Sauron and the Nazgul), than Rohan did (from Isengard and Saruman).
Plus of course they had continually needed to battle against Sauron’s orcs for years beforehand, facing him / them directly while other lands including Rohan suffered far less damage in comparison.
Rohan is smaller and less influence than Gondor as far as I know
@@nicmagtaan1132.
Rohan is a small 500 year old kingdom, Gondor is the greatest kingdom of men. So you are definitely correct.
Theoden: Where was Gondor when the Westfield fell?
Denethor: where was Rohan when we held the forces of Mordor at bay?
Ben -- Both men had lost their sons, Théoden unfortunately lost his son in occasion when Gondor could've come. To Théoden it was personal, "Why should I help them, when they couldn't help my son?", "Why should I help them when my men were outnumbered by thousands?".
To Théoden's credit he's being petty, but he's not being disingenuous. Gondor was able to hold back Mordor for generations, which as a by-product of being so stalwart and successful, it can be assumed they could spare men to help their allies.
Things are now in motion that cannot be undone.
Especially this year.
Tirion Fordring: Where was Gondor when the Lich King was closing in around us?!
Why should we have volume? part1
I see the algorithm has blessed us once again
Boromir: gives the same speech in the council to theoden
But the fact that Theoden mustered his remaining forces after a terrible battle that almost wiped them out and RODE TO THE AID OF GONDOR and proceeded to DIE DEFENDING THE CITY. He was a flawed yet amazing character and king.
I know a guy like Gondor so quick to ring you to ask for a favour but no where to be seen when you want to borrow a tenner off him
Why should we ride to the aid of those who didn't come to ours?
Because you will lead one of the most badass and epic army charges cinema has ever seen
_MUSTER THE ROHIRIM!_
The jokes here are so weak that i love it. Keep strong!
Can we appreciate that pippin a mere hobbit resisted the will of SAURON?!
This is how a group project goes when the group has to get a project done ASAP.
One guy says how its in the benefit of all if we work together and one guy says why the fuck he should help when he saw that guy doing little to nothing.
"Where was Gondor when my wife left me?"
King Theoden was such a tsundere
"Gondor you BAKA!!!"
Nice! =)
Theoden: "Why should we ride to the aid of those who did not come to ours?"
Gondor: "You never asked for help!"
Wait do the beacons work in reverse?
"There was no lie in Pippin's ass."
Gondor, where were you on the 7th of June 1984 between 8 and 9 o' clock in the morning?
*You just know that Gandalf has a secret love for them 2 lil rascals*
1:33 When you finish watching The Fellowship of the Ring and you now have to watch The Two Towers
I mean, Gondar was probably inundated with invading armies and raids as it was, spread too thin with a steward who'd gone mad from despair and Saurons influence via the Palantir. Even if they had men to spare to send to Rohan, there's no way Denethor would have signed off on it.
I love that every situation in Lord of the Rings has an explanation
Except Tom Bombadil
I'm very happy Gandalf explained the vision in the palantir.
Not to sound like a dolt, but I did not get the significance from the book - so glad to understand it from Gandalf.
“Why should we help Gondor”
“Perhaps it is because I am afraid, and it gives me courage.”
Where was Gondor when the TLOU 2 released and ruin everything ...
i feel that.
Thèoden: Why should we help Gondor?
Aragorn: Bro I am the king and I just helped you defeat 1000s of Orcs at Helm’s Deep.
Fun fact Theoden was born in Gondor. Born in Gondor and died in Gondor.
I've always wondered why did Gandalf not let Aragorn go to Minas Tirith through the direct road.
So Elrond could meet him outside the mountain to give him the sword and collect the army of the dead.
@@erog418 This is all from the movies, not the books. In the book Aragorn had to pass UNDER the mountains to get to Pelargir to head off the corsairs in time. And he took the dunedain with him (plus the sons of Elrond). Jackson played fast and loose with Tolkien's story - to its detriment, in my view.
@t321bob did Rohan even ask for aid during the battle of Hornburg?
the heir of elendil
"What do we owe Gondor?"
Your entire country, which was once part of Gondor. Helm's Deep, the Hornburg. All your best weapons, which were made by them. The fact that you even exist in the first place. Shall I go on?
That literally has no relevance to the current situation
At this point I guess Theoden didn't exactly know who Aragorn was.
He does.
At this point he knew, as this is after helms deep, and prior to that seige he made the remark that he, not aragon, is king of rohan
He will Raise Pittman to the Ground Before he sees a King return to the throne of the Sith
The King of Gondor saved your ass at helms deep.
Where was the Gondor when I saw a noodle vid and had no noodles at home ?
"A fool, but an honest fool."
Remember when movies were good.
Where was Gondor when I fell into the river of LEGO city?
Put on undertitles and go to the part where he says, there are no lies in pippins eyes 😂😂😂
Gandalf be pounding Pippins cheeks as punishment.
Lmfaooo now I can’t unhear it
God bless u good sir 😂😂😂😂
Correct me if I’m wrong but wasn’t osgiliath getting attacked during the same time?
The real question is why is Bilbo invading Helm's Deep?
I think because Gondor had quite a lot of shit on their plate already.
It's the droid attack on the Wookies all over again.
Where was Gondor when Steve job died?
I loved Pippin. He was the joker in the pack...and had more courage than many men.
Why should we help gondor?
Gondor: "We have cookies!"
Theoden: "What kind of cookies?"
Gondor: "Chocolate chip"
Theoden:...ok
Like Theoden obviously doesn't know that Gondor went through civil wars, plague times, so ofc they couldn't help Rohan at all, and they could never free him from Saruman magic
In the books Theoden does not hesitate to go to war for Gondor. Not sure why this was changed in the films but I guess more drama was needed.
Most likely to add a bit more tension between Aragorn and Theoden at least that's my guess. In The Two Towers before the battle of Helm's Deep Aragorn did try to reason with Theoden to call for aid or face a massacre and that Gondor would be the best to ask aid from but of course Theoden let his anger and resentment cloud his judgment and assumed the old alliances were dead hence why he didn't bother sending out riders. Theoden for all we knew didn't realize or know most likely that Gondor was facing it's own problems dealing with the Growing power of Mordor. Take Denethor for example, we see him lose his sanity and his ability to want to aid other kingdoms not just from the death of Boromir but from also looking into the palantir for as long as he did as well. Perhaps in both their minds they both felt like the war was against them and that Saruman and Sauron were going to win out in the end and all hope was lost by that point. Sorry for the lengthy rant but this is just my opinion idk if this helps at all.
Petter Danckwardt and when the beacons are lit he suddenly changes his mind. It was just for drama like you said
He does not hesitate either.
Where was Gondor when I was without milk?
Well, he does have a point...
The same guy that plays count dooku
0:33 "His defeat as Minias Tirith showed our enemy one thing." Proceeded to say two reasons:
1. The heir of Elendil has come forth; and 2. Men are not as weak as he supposed.
1 is a cause for 2.
1:49 that last statement hahaha
that thumbnail should be a new meme. Suprised gandalf face
Captioning: "What did you tell him about Frodo in the ring there was now lie in Pippins ass a fool"
Gandalf : Pippins eyes
The translator : Pippins ass
Pippin went toe to toe with the dark lord Sauron. A Maiar. And didn’t give up his friend. Wow.
Came here to say this and you beat me to it. Pippin might be an idiot, but even in his terror he knew not to tell Sauron anything, so credit where credit is due. "A fool, but an honest fool."
Humans, elves, dwarfs and ents will fight the orcs together.