I never begged for his presence/love. But I understand now, that I had a sort of “addiction” to his personality type. Now that I know how toxic narcissists are, I take measures in my own life to protect myself from these personalities!
My nephew who spent a week in the hospital before they realised he was allergic to dairy. He would cry for whatever amount of time my sis would be gone.
Yeah me too, I felt vulnerable and afraid but was too young to know what it was. So the emotional stress manifested itself through bedwetting, nail-biting, and easily frightened "crybaby".
@@apostatejim2080 so weird, I suffered from the same things as a child. It was a very difficult time for me. Nothing like getting your nose rubbed into your mess like I was a dog. Thanks for sharing.
Here is where the paranoia that you're really the narcissist creeps in, because being raised in neglect both makes you likelier to become a narcissist and likelier to become a target of one.
@@Picca65 I’m realizing that I have a lot of anxiety from growing up trying to placate an emotionally fragile, possibly narcissistic parent. So when i have to leave other people, I’m not mad at them for abandoning me but rather worried they’ll be mad at me. It took me an hour to realize that, but the distinction feels crucial.
@@Picca65 ..Yeah - true. I don't understand why Narc. go thro their whole lives - in the 'Narc. Club' !?! Maybe they never had any really good friends who challenged them. !! My Dad and brother were - so to my Husband and his parents. I - just observe not absorb mostly now -they have learnt not to mess with me, but I will 'hold the line', permanently now. ;))
The anxious attachment style is different in narcissists than those non-narcissists who were raised by a narcissist. The narcissists sees their anxiety as an excuse to lie, gaslight, do smear campaigns and otherwise systematically opress a person. Simply being anxious or having an anxious attachment style is not narcissism on its own.
I’ve been anxiously attached my entire life due to a cold German mother that was more interested in having a clean house than validating my emotions. At three, I started nail biting due to anxiety. Going to school (starting at age three) always resulted in inconsolable crying and fear. I found it extremely difficult to self-soothe (as is the case with those anxiously attached) and am learning how to do that now, in my mid-fifties. Of course, the family narrative was that I was somehow flawed or “too sensitive” for being such a crybaby away from home. Now I understand that it was my parents’ inattentiveness and lack of mirroring that made me so fearful about life. 🧐
@@elfglow4557 I relate with each and every word of yours. More interested in having a clean house than validating my emotions. Always tagged as too sensitive, fearing going to school. Narcissistic abuse from the mother is the worst thing in the world.
Wow, my mother is also German lol.. basically a good person but always very critical, judgemental and not validating at all, not emotionally supportive. I didn't become a narcissist to my knowledge, but I carry that with me by always seeking approval from people who are older or more senior than me, I am always looking for that supportive parent figure. In my life I also struggled with a sense of identity and always "fell in love" with people who didn't, or couldn't, love me. My brother is pretty much diagnosably schizoid or at least very significant traits. We had a normal childhood, so just goes to show how much kids need emotional support growing up.
@@justlivinglife465 You sound like you are codependent, just like so many others (including myself) who have been raised by narcissists. Thankfully, with much help from the internet and CZcams, we can all move out of codependency and learn how to soothe and validate ourselves! 💪
In my last relationship I kept trying to figure out my ex's issues as I was definitely feeling anxiously attached.. He fits the description of the neglectful narcissist and a dismissive avoidant. In the end it didn't matter which he was as my boundaries got better while his treatment of me got worse and I ended the relationship. The fact that I was trying so hard to figure out how to navigate the relationship was the biggest red flag and not something I'll do again.
THIS. Another piece of the puzzle to putting my spine back together and give myself some confidence in navigating new relationships. That’s my fear. I don’t want to disengage from the world entirely but how do I know? My narc radar is obviously out of whack. *It doesn’t matter what they are (they’ll never be authentic), the red flag is me trying so hard to bend to fit the mold only to find the mold is constantly changed.* 😳🤯
This is a take that I was surprised to find was missing from this video. I'm still recovering from the narcissistic abuse I experienced with a dismissive ex that I cut out of my life a couple months ago, and at this rate I feel like my recovery process might even take longer than the eight month span of the relationship itself. I have never, ever once been in a relationship that made me feel so inadequate and insecure. The most self-centered people I've ever known have had avoidant attachment, and the most open hearted have been anxious. The idea of an anxiously attached narcissist makes sense to me (I can have some narcissistic tendencies when avoidant behavior from a partner triggers my anxious side) but to say that narcissists are predominantly anxious does not conform to my personal experience.
@@umbrascitor2079 My experience totally matches yours. Avoidant attachment is characterised by an over-reliance on the self (which often, but not always, comes with an over-inflated sense of self). This was a really one-sided, and I think quite false, video. Yes, some people with anxious-attachment are punitively rageful but that's not true of most people with that attachment style.
My therapist gave me a book 3 days ago called Attached where it discusses the different types of attachment styles and their interactions with one another. First of all, amazing read. Please check it out. Second, it’s very interesting that styles can change due to dramatic events. For example, I was raised by a narc father that was always helicoptering and overbearing. My mom was always available and supportive. With the combination, I had a secure attachment style. My first marriage (and first relationship, long story) was with a narc of a different type (dads grandiose, she was covert). Despite countless times of having avoidance thrown at me, I was more disheveled than traumatized. I stayed secure for the most part. Found my next girlfriend days after my separation started (yeah it wasn’t a highlighted time in my life lol). She was also a narc, but more malignant and grandiose mixed, so I yet again missed the signs. She was most anxious AND avoidant, and with my mind being in such a raw shape at that point (from the separation and having to prove to myself that I could do this relationship thing correctly if given the chance), she molded me like clay. Almost a year after that relationship, I’m now realizing I’ve developed an anxious attachment style and it’s been causing issues in my current, very healthy relationship with a very secure person. As always, thanks to therapy, independent in-depth research, and videos from people like Dr Ramani, I’m learning what caused it, triggers it, and how to work myself back to a secure style. Will it be easy? Not a bit. Will it be worth it? Always. Thank you as always Dr Ramani for helping on my continuous healing journey ❤️
Yes, I have seen the push pull in the narcissist between wanting my attention and wanting to punish but over time it was replaced with being avoidant. Then it became a toss up between being avoidant and trying to be “good” so he could be praised every so often. If not praised enough he can be punitive and rail at how unfair everyone is to him.
If you take the bait you get punished, if you refuse it as well. These people want full control and don't give a rat's A** about anybody else's feelings and jerk them around as if they have none.
Narcissists and by extension, their victims have either anxious, avoidant or disorganized styles of attachment. That’s why they gravitate towards each other and why it’s so hard for some people to leave these narcs.
I try to validate my children's emotions *as a priority* and accept them for who they are. I try to help them learn that making mistakes is ok. (I didn't learn any of this in my childhood). The hardest thing is talking to them about their dad's behaviour without demonising him. It confuses the hell out of them! Your videos help me so much, Dr Ramani. Thank you from the bottom of my heart 💛
Yes, validate your son emotions and opinions, cause when you're not, he/she gonna find someone else to connect emotionally, don't let others take the parent role instead of you....
I see enough Narc and Psycho's in my family, and iam already afraid of the trauma my brother gonna give her child later, i already saw some abuse with her son, especially his wife, his wife use ayah and such to make him comply, when those child only want to play, have emotional connections with her mom..... I don't want to see my lil Nephew, facing life with stress and trauma like i do, so i pray to God, He will Keep him safe, and give him guidance, cause i see myself as child at him, abused and already blamed as little as 5 years old.... I look at him with love, he only want emotional connections from her parent figure, he want to her mom validates, and understand him, and he can read newspaper already as 5 years old, sometimes he's on tantrum, but we love him...
I thought I was getting solidity and security and faithfulness and human dignity when I married! I was certainly wrong! I was of the belief that a marriage is a reciprocal exchange of love and caring for each other! I certainly found out different! There was no solidity! Fidelity for the narcissist was out of the question!There was no security in that my inner beliefs would someday become real.... I had daily inner implorations of hope that all went up in smoke! thank you Dr. Ramani! Yes! You are here for all of us every week and I so appreciate that! ❤️🙏🕊
Oh, how I relate to this statement of yours...reciprocity, fidelity, care all of it was non existent. Almost broke my spirit, I'm still in the beginning of my journey towards a better, authentic future...it's scary, but nothing is scarier than the though that I could exist (can't even use the word "live") the way I did for the rest of my days...what a waist of life that would be..
My mom grew up in an abusive household. I'm convinced that she conditioned me to be overly empathic to overcompensate and to give her the validation she needs. When I don't, or whenever I do something she thinks is in the slightest way wrong, she loses it on me. I've tried grey stoning, but she just sees that as me complying and that I'm fixed (I have CPTSD).
Keep learning and implementing new things. Add a boundary and stick to enforcing it. If she ignores it as mine did, you may have to go no contact for a while to make your point, and it will be awful for a short time. It’s a really important move. Just get through it and you will have her attention. Grey rock minimizes outbreaks of rage and devaluation. It is not a tool for creating boundaries and improving you position in the “relationship.” Wishing you strength and wisdom.
@@eunice6694 this might be irresponsible to say as you don’t know where on the spectrum she is and it may have consequences for the OP. I think the better bet would be to follow Dianna’s recommendation to find what works in her situation from the number of strategies that exist. Sounds like there might also be a struggle with how to be authentic while dealing with it. Mine is a hypochondriac which triggers my savior complex. Now, I respond with, sounds like something that needs to be checked out and possibly treated but from your symptoms, it doesn’t sound fatal. Stays true to my need for honesty, reality, and compassion for others, without gaslighting or minimizing his feelings (cuts his fuse). I found this by trial and error. If you decide not to go no contact, stick with this community as they may have suggestions for other specific strategies to help.
I had a narc mom and a narc husband (no surprise there) when my kids were little, but I had no language, insight, or understanding for narcissism. All I knew to do was the opposite of what my mother and my kids’ father did, so that was my guiding parenting principle. I got a “Children Learn What They Live” card out of a box of formula and put it on the wall and read it every day. I have two successful, kind, and intelligent sons of whom I am incredibly proud. They are 38 and 41, and I am only recently learning about and understanding what we endured.
Not my partner but my mother parentifying me and re-enacting her anxious childhood. Emotional abuse for me. But that’s in the past now. Excellent overview. Thank you!
I've noticed this re-enactment of their past they soo much hate as well. Sometimes it's like they want to take revenge on their own parent(s) through their kids and spouse or something. Even when they are aware they still can't help themselves. Like "I didn't get it so no one will" !! or, "I didn't get any but I turned out perfect didn't I ? so don't complain because I had it much worse then you"! Yea, when your a child of those types you don't get a fair chance even and later in life you will hear the narcissist abusive parent tone of why you are such a failure and bla bla they had kids when they were your age and so on.
Ya it’s so sad and unfortunate how the narcissist as the parent doesn’t want you to live your life and grow up. My toxic narcissistic mom wanted to hold me back from experiencing life. It’s like she’s mad at me for wanting to leave and do my own thing as a healthy person should. It’s sick how she thinks I’m bad because I’m not a child and she couldn’t keep control over me forever. Really messed up how these types of individuals are not healthy with how they act and then lash out immaturely and angry at the victim for nothing.
I'm watching the same dynamic. Woman I know infantalizing her child to such an obvious degree. The girl is two and a half and you have never seen a helicopter like this one, always shoving her tit in her mouth. wants to nurse her until she's 5 or 6. Whatever floats your boat, but it is so obviously not about the child, who doesn't talk- doesn't have to before someone jumps, and doesn't really engage even if spoke to, looking her in the eyes. It's not just the extended nursing. I don't think she's let the girl out of her sight since she's been born, plans to ... unschool. Very sad to see what a trapped victim the child is.
I'm 58 yo & have a healthy 84 yo MOTHER that's hell bent/hell BOUND on keeping me dependant on her so mommy can Micro MANAGE my life til her evil deaths end.
Being a psych major I remember when we covered attachment styles , I found it so interesting . I agree completely that most narcissists have an anxious attachment style . You’re the best !
I studies Psychology in college. (DSM 4 was out at the time) and its amazing to me how we glossed over the personality disorders, I think they were only a chapter for all of them combined. Its amazing how many patient facing clinicians are blissfully unaware of narcissism, solely because they aren't given much importance. Dr. Ramani, you are doing absolutely groundbreaking work.
My rumination has lessened dramatically. I beiieve its this channel and all the sharing here that is helping me wind it down. This channel is bringing me to my senses. I''ve realised that through rumination I've blocked off creativity and self-growth. I wish this channel had been around years ago. What a gift it is. It's all down to Dr Ramani of course. This video is another one that is giving me a timely lesson. I am staying with this channel because it is a healing path. 🕉
Me too. Not planning on having any even though my motherly instinct to have children is extremely strong and just looking at children warms my heart. But I don’t think I’m healed enough and I will not damage the innocent being I bring to this world.
I raised my stepson from age 23 months to adulthood. Mom left at 18 months. Spent years getting treatment for him due to severe behavior issues from abandonment but a special place that no longer exists in Indianapolis made the difference. 2 weeks of intensive treatment followed by 4 yrs of excellent counseling and he is a healthy 34 yr old.counselors tell me he is an anomaly to have faired so well.
At 62 I find myself watching CZcams videos of young families that are healthy,respectful and have truly happy home lives. I think it validates for me that the neglect I experienced in childhood really happened. Even thinking about seeing family members fills me with anxiety and makes me break down. My siblings don't get it.
To be fair 50 years ago kids feelings and needs weren't really considered by parents. The CZcams families do concern me though because although the kids have a nice home life, being filmed constantly and having to be "on" for the camera must take a toll.
"CZcams videos of young families that are healthy,respectful and have truly happy home lives" Soo perfect they should be on YT ? I hope you don't believe too much of that..
@@suemick8709 I think the point they are trying to make is these CZcams families are mostly for show. People that are monetize the family most likely are not thinking of the children first. They are taking the freedom of choice from those kids. Most likely they are narc for parents.
I love attachment theory! Since I've learned about it, I have understood that I had an insecure attachment style. I later learned it was disorganized. This is due to the fact that I grew up in home with a narcissistic parent, suffering through rage fits and abuse. Due to this environment, I grew to behave similarly and struggle with disorganized attachment. I have done a lot of inner work and reflection and I try to be accountable and not shame myself for my brain being wired in a way that I did not have control over. However now, I have to work very hard on my behavior, self awareness and accountability for slip ups. But I could tell my current partner was disorganized before I realized he was also narcissistic and I had to look at myself in the mirror.
This makes so much sense to me about the narcissist that was in my life! He never had a safe consistent safe person in his life! He was abandoned by his mother on numerous occasions. His mother was also bi-polar and manic depressive and consistency was/is NOT a strong suit of hers!! The push pull was definitely alive during the relationship with my ex (narcissist). I am so happy I have went zero contact. Getting stronger every day!! Thanks for your amazing videos!!
I was raised by a narcissistic mother who could be very infantile. She would tell me endless sob stories about her life, & from a very young age, I thought it was my job to be her emotional support & "therapist". I would try to comfort her & constantly reassure her that the world was not such a dangerous & scary place as she imagined, to help her cope, even though I was never allowed to explore or experience things in the world. My mom & I had a severe trauma bond & for the 25 years I spent with her almost exclusively, she kept me isolated from the world & other people. During the last five years I spent with her, I began calling her "baby", because I was under the false assumption that I (as her child) could somehow re-parent my mom & if I could just "love her enough" it would heal her. I now understand that narcissists are like a black hole & nothing you do will ever be enough or "fix" them - that is the responsibility of the individual. I am now free from that relationship & working daily to heal & re-parent myself.
Sometimes I think of them like an addict, there's noting you can do that'll make them feel loved, there's no way of reaching in there. Afterwards you just get that sense of helplessness and sadness, because there's nothing left to do but take care of you.
There must be different levels of anxiety attachment. I am aware I have an attachment disorder. I remember in my 30's when I first had a therapist, I would feel overwhelmed and call her between sessions. Not every week. I also would call her several times, if she didn't return my call. The difference is I learned and accepted boundaries. I did stop calling realizing that the feeling passed. Also, I learned techniques to distract myself from the anxiety or self soothe. I don't call my therapist in between appointments anymore. This may be related to I do have empathy. Also, I realized that I needed to stop using the therapist as a crutch. I stopped focusing on my feeling of being overwhelmed, and I knew there are clients in emergency situations. Finally, I recognized my behavior is inconsiderate of the therapist; also it's inconsiderate of other clients who are in a dire situation. Take note I did learn this over a period of time. My first therapist did move on to advance in her career. This was eventful for me. I learned that I could survive through the grief. It was a long path of learning techniques, which I learned through work and practice over several years. I did actively set this as a goal in my mind to pursue. I never had punitive intentions. Lastly, Children were an inconvenience for my mother. My dad believed it was the mother's role to be the caretaker. My father did provide for our material essential needs food, clothing, shelter..ect
Rant: Once a person reaches a certain level of maturity, explanations for problem behavior bother me for one reason: Lots of people suffer lots of early trauma, sickness, death, and loss, but, by and large, their chosen core values determine how they react. A person committed to nonviolence of body and mind would never take their issues out on another or ignore someone in their presence. Those who don’t care about honesty, integrity, communication, etc., tend to act like dysregulated toddlers throughout their lives. I’m tired of “excusing” bad behavior because of a “traumatic past.” There is no excuse, there is only commitment to decency or not. Freedom doesn’t mean free to be cruel. True freedom comes from self-control.
okay i get your point but do you not believe i growth? is everyone supposed to reach a good point at a specific time in their life. Does everyone who harms someone do it intentfully? do we as humans not make mistakes and learn from them? do we not say sorry and make a mens for a reason? Some people have bad/toxic/unhelathy traits and i 100% agree that the person on the receeding end of that deserves the persons empathy and apology and a firm resolouting they will try not to make the same mistake but people do change and people childhood and even adulthood can sometimes have a negative impact on their behaviour such as leaving a abusive family home or marriage these relationships habe a negatove impact on the one who is in them and sometimes that person has picked up negative behaviour that they deem as wrong and probably never once had.
"Once a person reaches a certain level of maturity...". Well, the fact is that these people don't get there, whatever the reason. It's okay to understand or even have some compassion for them. However, excusing their destructive impact on others isn't required, nor do I think it is right. I don't think emotional maturity is a straight line linear process like, for instance, physical maturity of the body seems to be. Understanding, empathy or compassion don't have to rule out accountability for one's behavior, nor negate the emotions we feel when confronted with their damage.
It’s true but I think that’s where spirituality/religion can come into play. We all look human but our souls are not all the same. Some people are more worldly and more likely to repeat karmic cycles. It does suck that people are like that, but not everyone can be “good”.
I grew up with severe hearing impairment. Hearing aids were a stigma. Now I understand, this helped me have a beautiful empathetic approach and connection, but also made me a narcissist’s punching bag. I didn’t spare myself from one ounce of narcissistic abuse. It’s scary when the love of your life that willingly loved me turned so cruel 12 years into our relationship. The saddest part….he was taking advantage of knowing he was my translator. It’s all sorts of fear. But the loneliness instilled by narcissistic abuse coexisting with an invisible impairment was and is the darkest days. We gotta look inward. We can be ok. Im getting healthier as we all can. Hugs to all of you. No matter what you are going through. Let’s love ourselves.
Does anyone else have a partner who, when you’re trying to step out the door to get to work or you’re late for a medical appointment (anything!) he/she starts talking to you about stuff that can absolutely wait but they just won’t stop talking until you tell them you’ve gotta go? And sometimes even then they don’t stop?
Yes, that is what I feel my narcissist is trying to get me to do, be his parent and that somehow it is my job to fix him until he becomes this equal partner. And if I think he needs to fix himself I have done some grand injustice to him. He doesn’t see he failed to live up to the promises he made. Everyone else in his life treats this like his issues are just normal weaknesses and he is being abandoned and do not see who he really is.
Mine would complain of a headache after working outside in the sun for too long. I asked if he'd drank any water, he went off in a huff because what he wanted was not a solution but sympathy.
@@barbaramale9106 yes, I can relate. Mine also would only want sympathy and no solutions. He would not like me asking about what he tried to help him if he didn’t feel well. He saw that as criticism. He also re-wrote history to create a version of life where I did not offer him help or attention. He paints a different version of reality for everyone he knows. He makes himself out to be some innocent victimized husband who is going to be abandoned.
I can relate to this. Since I’ve realized I can’t help him my life has gotten better. Now he is taking steps to help himself. Hopefully it’s not an act. He goes back and forth a lot.
I learned about attachment theory through la leche league as a new mother in the mid 1990s. I was and am a proponent in helping to facilitate a secure attachment.
@@bumblebee803 it was the wrapping of my mind around that aspect of it all that really began to set me free. To know that they actually enjoyed my misery.
@@jodyayers4592 I know. But it goes much deeper for me. I'm still surrounded by really toxic people and I'm just wondering when is it all going to end? I've put 5 years of really hard self-work and seem to fail in protecting myself. No matter what I do. I'm really, really tired.
This series Rocks! I had some MAJOR moments of clarity about my Narc Mom and Partner. I've been looking for a point of reference that makes more sense for me, and this is it. That Need You/Need to Punish You dynamic describes my Narcs perfectly. I even more clearly now see how I unhealthily became the Parent/Rescuer/Fixer in hopeless situations. I'm still feeling a huge weight being lifted from this powerful clarity. Thank You, Thank You, Thank You for everything you do for this community!
Leave the narc partner you cannot fix the partner nor the relationship. That person will never stop punishing and might escalate if he senses your "clarity".
I remember this from Child Development class. The anxiously attached child grows into an adult who's had many years of managing their fears without overcoming them. So, their relationships are now dominated by fears of loss and how to manipulate an attachment out of others, knowing they can never get it based on trust alone.
I have consciously made an effort to remove us from toxic situations almost instantly. I’ve built a network of amazing friends and loved ones that I was vulnerable enough to share my needs with and they always come through for us. As soon as I see narcissistic traits I speak through it and monitor alternative behavioural responses. We practice responding vs reacting. We do not go to bed not having had a talk through something. I always emphasis empathic exchanges and resolutions. We hit speed bumps and navigate those as they come. I do practice attachment parenting, I have one autistic child, it was the biggest blessing cos he made me curious and was my introduction to conscious parenting.
Antique, what a thoughtful lifestyle you have created! To actively implement healthy, empathic exchanges is a parental home run. I am inspired to figure out what that means at a more granular level as I strive to learn to be more healthy. I am desperate to get it right for my kids and may have only a couple more years to implement my own lessons for us. Thank you for the example.
Oh My Goodness!! The wanting reassurance from me but also wanting to punish me is what completely killed the relationship. He would get mad at me for being busy with work, not being able to talk on the phone because I was sleepy or not seeing him enough but as soon as I try to correct my behavior by calling him, making plans to see him, canceling meetings so I had more time for him, etc then he'd punish me for days and weeks with cold, rejecting, passive aggressiveness, deflection and bringing up the same argument over and over again. It was exhausting. And then he'd get mad at me for threatening to leave him or actually ending things with him and blame me for ruining the relationship by leaving. It's good to know that I couldn't rescue him because I wanted to save him and get him help and show him love but it was killing me. My body felt literal pain whenever I talked to him. His mother was abusive and neglectful so its definitely an issue with childhood trauma. Some times I still wonder if I could've done more but I would've hurt no only myself but also my child if I did. I just can't give 100% of myself to anyone. I exist and my feelings and needs matter too.
When my son was born Attachment Parenting was all the rage and everyone talked about attachment theory and I knew so many parents who "wore" their babies and slept with their kids forever, and required that their infants be on their persons at all times. These people often criticized me because I didn't do that. I see some commenters commenting that they did this type of parenting so they did the right thing. I saw a lot of what I interpreted as narcissitic attachment parenting being called the right way to parent. The parents were so into being seen as perfect parents who were obsessed with doing this Attachment Parenting style right. I saw some of them as more "anxiously attached." For myself, I had to listen to a lot of their B.S. because I didn't parent in that style, and the primary reason was my son refused that style. He hated to be "worn" because he wanted to see out, so he prefered a stroller where he could look out, but I got so much grief from people for not wearing him close to me. Also, I could not sleep with him because he was so active and it seemed to make him wake up a lot. He chose not to breastfeed at 11 mo., as well. I tried to see what HE needed, not what I needed so that I could convince myself I was a good parent and pat myself on the back. I've missed a lot of cues and been a bad parent at times, but I hope that he feels allowed to be who he is and feels secure and loved because of that, and does not feel burdened by my shortcomings.
I like some of the ideas of attachment parenting but as with everything you have to adapt and adjust to your own situation. I have 3 kids and I know that there is no one style of anything, you need to do what works for everyone. My first was like yours and hated being held when she was sleeping but my other 2 would scream when I put them down so in my experience both ways were positive and beneficial 🤷
Good for you for taking cues from your son and not trying to push a square peg through a round hole! I could relate when you said your son “hated to be worn.” My daughter hated to be cradled like a baby, but, rather, wanted to be held upright so she could look all around. Go figure 🙄. . . It would be nice if they all came with an instruction manual. 🤪
It is always a pleasure to watch your videos Dr. Ramani and learn with you, thank you😊💖 I have read the book "Attached" and you talk about it in your latest book as well. You are right on everything. I have experienced this in narcissistic relationships with the narcissists being anxious-avoidant which is so confusing and very stressful for us on the other side. Even when we are secure, it affect us deeply. Exactly as you describe it💔
I realized that crying babies unglued me (grands crying created anxiety) in talking with my son I blurted out “no one ever came.” This was a huge aha moment. I was a head-banger as a child & used to rock to self soothe. Comforting each other works well ❤️
Yess exactly on point. My ex tried to punish me for saying his real things on his face. So he tried to punish me by breaking up. But I knew the game and got out of this mess early. Thank you doctor 💗
Good for you!. I didn't. Played the tug of war for several years. I didn't know what I was dealing with. I didn't know that there's Narcissism😔..until I started researching and came across Dr. Ramani. She's the only one I found that explains it in a way I could I understand more.
Interesting. I’ve definitely heard grandiose narcissism associated with dismissive avoidant attachment and covert narcissism associated with fearful avoidant attachment. Anxious attachment is generally considered the closest to secure and studies are clear that anxious attachers easily become secure when they experience a lasting relationship with a secure partner whereas a DA or FA is, in the vast majority of cases, is too insecure to successfully date a secure partner long term. I love your videos, Ramani-keep it up! I do disagree with this particular one.
I have to agree with you. I love her and usually see truth in what she says. But this one seems to be a bit wonky to me. I have a anxious attachment style, yet I have very few narcissistic traits. My husband, who I believe to have a disorganized style, has more of the narcissistic traits. I believe being anxious is what makes one a more likely target for a narcissist because you tend to do whatever is necessary to make your partner happy and stay. I’m not sure I’ve ever heard of a anxiously attachment wanting to punish their partner. I’m no expert, but I have been in therapy with this as the basis and have personally dug into it via books, podcasts, etc. Usually it’s affirmation and confirmation that sooth the anxiously attached and help them respond more appropriately. It’s the avoidance that want attention, but don’t want to give it.
I disagree with her here, too. In my experience, it is the avoidant types who are most inclined to detach, stonewall and use silent treatment and to avoid intimacy all around, and to punish. Like yourself, I have an insecure attachment style, and find myself attracted in my past to many Narcissistic highly avoidant women
It's all nice and rosy until the therapist tells the anxious attachment style that they can be narcissistic themselves. I see it on many videos. Too hard of a pill to swallow. We just cannot see it while we're in it. Anxious can be in such denial. I know I was one. I was the good one, the rational one, the healthy attached one, the balanced one. He was the narcissist, or at best avoidant ofc lol. Till I woke up. And realized it made no sense whatsoever as a grown up to be in a relationship where I felt so unfulfilled and finally took responsibility over my own well being. Completely shifted my perspective.
This made me cry today, for the child I was, and who this made me. I feel actual pain and wish I could have parented that small child........ how anyone could have harmed them and continue to harm the adult they became I cannot get my head around it 🙏
they have no empathy so they only care about themselves. Curious thing is that they themselves became like that just that exact way but still would keep behaving like that even if they realized it.
@@LSMH528Hz that so true, and I feel so awful for them.... I truly do. I feel awful for everyone involved. It's such a difficult situation and consequently makes everyone very dyregulated within that mix. The piece that stands out for me is why didn't ahyone sit back and say wait a minute. .. is this okay, is this a good thing, can things be different. Leaves one in cognitive dissonance and lives wasted. The world is a funny place not 8n the laughing type. Kind wishes you you 😊😊
I’ve never seen a 51 year old act like such a child. I’m burned out, I feel for her mom. Like a good neighbor stay over there. Yep mom was the narc example.
I really felt that part about if I'm always there and always loving then I can fix their anxious attachment. Very early on in my relationship my abuser predicted that I would leave him eventually because "everyone always leaves" which reinforced my commitment to not leave no matter how scary things got - I saw it as my mission not to be the one who leaves him this time. I appreciate your comments about what their job is and what the victim's job is in the relationship. I've been no contact (as no contact as possible with kids involved) for 4 years and I still think daily about going back and "doing better" to make him feel secure in my love. Your videos have helped keep me from acting on that urge but this one especially is impactful because it adds a counter argument to the fixer narrative in my head. Thank you!
Great informational video 🙂 I'm a substitute teacher and I have noticed narcissist traits in SOME of the students around age 8-10 years. I also know most of these kids came from broken families. I have heard some heart breaking stories from the kids myself. Some students have even called me (mom). Anyways I'm thinking some narcissism is on the raise due to the break down of families and likely both parents will have to work full-time to support themselves. So this leaves less time to be with their children. Also being a single parent can be very stressful and if they do remarry or have a partner, it comes with its own set of problems. Teachers and students should learn about narcissism and realize it's becoming a problem. Knowledge is power 💕👍
I was extremely thankful to my one parent who gave me so much love. And if my aunts are listening, THANK YOU, I needed you. It's true, if you just have older person you can count on, you can make it. I think.
So, I never had an issue with hello/goodbye until my husband. He had a coldness that would come over him when we said goodbye/hello. I would linger to try to get the normal response I had in healthy relationships...which would lead to frustration with both of us. My parents/extended family/ex boyfriend and his family would hug/say loving words/linger a lil and part ways waving/blowing kisses/etc. So, I was in shock not knowing what to do with my husband and felt absolutely rejected which led to being sad and angry eventually. 11 years in and it is like pulling teeth to have him give a kiss or acknowledgement that I exist when he comes home or leaves. Growing up I saw my Dad immediately go to my Mom and give her a loving embrace and kisses/I love you when he got home from work everyday. With my narc, he exhibits dismissive attachment. I did notice that when I started coming around his parents....eventually his Mom would tell his Dad to hug him and for him to hug his Dad....soooo...that was interesting.
One blissful weekend when my kids were teens, we attended a church youth retreat where the peace and empathy were palpable. My son asked me if that was what heaven was like. I absolutely know that most church events are not like that. But on this one occasion, like minded teenagers created a very special atmosphere.
Love your work, Doc, and wanted to share that the reason the mental health profession doesn't know the root cause of narcissism or the other cluster B's is that they don't even consider the spirit of the person. We all have free will to choose to either keep a tender heart and be a loving empathic person, or to harden our heart and be focused on self and out to fulfill our own desires with no concern for others. We can choose to be open to God and serve Him, or to serve the evil one and be under his control. The cluster B personalities are the ones who are the abusers of others. They lie, steal and kill. Those are the works of the evil one who God's word says "came to steal, kill, and destroy.," and that "He is the Father of lies."
I certainly agree. I’m a narc survivor and I saw the same reaction play back-and-forth over and over! I thought I was losing my mind! I have learned so much from you and appreciate your work so much! You have no idea to the reality Of you helping us survive and get well mentally! Thank you for your hard work!❤
An absolute treat to listen to this video, Dr. Ramani. Married to an extremely malignant covert narc, this attachment theory greatly explains his erratic push pull behavior and the unavailable caregivers his parents have been( in his words once). My only goal now is to raise healthy children by being a healthy adult and this content immensely helps. Thank you so so much!💛
Wow, a malignant covert narcissist! He must be really hard to deal with. My heart goes out to you! Mine was not malignant, & we were ‘together’ only 3 1/2 yrs, but he really played a number on my psyche. I didn’t know about toxic narcissism at that time, but I knew enough about mental health in general to know that this was NOT a healthy relationship. I remember thinking, “If he’s treating me like this now & we are still in the dating phase, I can’t imagine what horrors might occur within marriage!” Oddly enough, HE broke it off with me. I think I ‘frustrated’ him; I was “a nut too hard to crack”.
I fostered two children, for five and a half years, who have multiple diagnoses, both physical and mental/emotional, including Reactive Attachment Disorder. I have now adopted them, about 15 months ago. I’m struggling with this! It’s like they don’t want to be loved... don’t get me wrong, I didn’t think it would get better over night. I didn’t expect it to get even worse. I feel like the worst parent on earth and so inadequate! Three broken people, one trying to keep us together and form a family and two fighting tooth and nail against everything. Though they both told the courts, GAL, CPS, their biological parents, and attorneys and the agency that did our homestudy that this is what they wanted!! Their actions and inactions, their lack of communication just exacerbates it
To begin with, I thought my ex Narc had an avoidant type attachment disorder. I was wrong. She was (is) a full blown Narc. She is out of my life almost 2 years now but still hoovers. I would not even give her the time of day much less a split second of my attention. I love coming back to Dr. Ramani’s videos because I learn and because those lessons are reinforced. Thank you, Dr. Ramani and all the lovely peeps who share in the comments. It’s great to not feel “alone” and confused.
Sometimes as I continue to learn about covert narcissism, I feel like I'm on the Matrix movie and have taken the red pill. My paradigm of how I see many has changed. This is a great thing, but I'm no longer the same. Upgrades! Smiles!
Dr. Ramani when you said a, "tantruming adult child" was soooo my exhusband and I was the wife who tried to be his all and everything. But of course nothing worked, I pushed for therapy and by the end I was so exhausted. I literally felt like the weight of the world lifted when we got divorced and even then he stalked me. It was horrible but your videos have helped me so much to understand what was going on in the relationship and all my relationships. Thank you.
Thank you, Dr. Ramani. I have so many insecurities about my parenting, especially as I realize how many mistakes I made while parenting my children. It breaks my heart that I didn’t know better, and that I wish I could reparent my children now with the knowledge and tools I’ve acquired now in my later years. Too late for my children. I just pray that my heart was indeed in the right spot in those days, for my sake. But for my children’s sake, it just breaks my heart that I contributed to their pain in ways that I can’t fix now. I got better with the younger children, but my poor older children weren’t so lucky. This life is messy and I appreciate hearing the de-vilifying statements from you, because I’ve sure heard them from my oldest two children very loudly and clearly. They have been devastating to hear over and over through the last 10+ years or so - longer from my oldest child. I definitely could have done better, and I wish I would have. Thank you for your perspective. And thank you for cracking open the door of hope that maybe I am not 100% to be blamed for some of my children’s misfortune and profound sadness. Thank you. I’ll hang on to that little bit of hope. ❤️
It's easy to relate to these feelings having raised 2 sons under similar conditions. Would that I could do it over but at the time there was no one like Dr. Ramani to explain to me why things were so awry.
Dr.Ramani I see you reaching over a million subscribers by the end of 2022. Your knowledge & information is so helpful, and absolutely life changing. Thank you for keeping us educated on a subject that’s unfortunately not talked about as much.
I did worry about attachment with my children since I had avoident and anxious attachments to my parents individually. I know that when my youngest was a baby I was not really present due to emotional issues and we all (My two partners and our two other children) felt like we had fallen down on the job. He was about 5 when we really started to see some ill effects....we made a concerted effort to redirect our energies to supporting him and along the way our adult children were able to start healing from the issues they felt when they were children. Thank you for giving me hope that our efforts will prove to be good enough to prevent our children from suffering needlessly from their parent's emotional attachment issues. We continue to be open, available and accepting of our responsibility for thier anger, resentments and more importantly for their praise when they see the effort. I am SO glad our brains grow and change as we age...goodness knows during those dark years we dealt with our dying parents and their own issues we weren't at our best as parents. There are three of us co-parenting our three children but we still sometimes feel like we have massively screwed up! Thanks again Dr. Ramani for shining a light in such a dark room....Just last night my oldest complimented all three of her parents on how even though none of us had a real map of how to be good enough parents we still managed to surprise her on how committed we all three are to being just that: Good enough. I had to admit that these videos are my best teacher though. :)
In soviet times, there was a practice to take a baby away to a different room ascsoon as she's born for the first 7 days and bring to the mother only at feeding times. I was one of these children. Also, my mum was never emotionally available. She was preoccupied with her own life and thoughts. I was put in full time nursery as soon as she could go back to work. I developed avoidant attachment style, and once (she told me this)when she came to collect me from nursery i said to her - why did you come so soon you old ass. (:D omg) later i became invisible child. Only since the past year i learned that she is a covert narcissist and my brother from golden child grew into grandiose narc to whom i cut all contact now and don't miss a thing. I'm parenting my baby being responsive at all times, and this aggravates my mum when she sees it, for some reason.
That sounds like such a terrible practice! I can’t believe people used to think this would be a good idea. I‘m so sorry! Paediatricians in Germany used to allow feeding babies only at a certain schedule (every 4 hours) in between which babies were to be put down in the cradle. Back when my grandma was a baby the paediatrician would even come by her parents‘ house in the evening to check if she was in her bed. And of course then came world war 2…. I’d say I’m suffering from my grandparents’ harsh upbringing 2 generations later. I wish you all the best in breaking the cycle!
This is so sad! In England in the 50s and 60s they told mothers to put the baby in the pram at the end of the garden for 2 hours every afternoon for fresh air and to close the doors and windows so the mother couldn't hear the baby crying for her. Eventually the baby learned there was no point in crying for care and stopped and this was considered success! Then they sent the kid to boarding school at 6 or 7 no wonder so many Brits are messed up!
Just befor our break-up. The pull in and the punishment were constant. Being accused of not helping when he needed me but no question for help was posed. When I confronted him i am being pacified / distracted with a flattering comment. Such inconsistent and crazy making interactions. And in my experience talking about what just happened only ends up into an argument or a spoilt day. I recognize me trying to rescue him being that parent, trying to safe the relationship. It was heart breaking. Thank you for the clearity.
Really liked the acknowledgment that codependency is based in anxious attachment whether it’s narcissistic codependency or not, but I don’t think most people catch-on to it. To be a survivor of narcissistic abuse and view perpetrators and victims in a grossly oversimplified black-and-white way is the very definition of narcissistic splitting itself… and it’s rampant.
Interesting. I always assumed most narcissists have more of an avoidant attachment style since they emotionally detach so easily once the initial thrill of the chase is over. Also because they are notorious for cheating. I can see how it may turn anxious in times when the other person may want to cut ties, but my experience with the narcissists in my life has been that, once they believe they have you in the bag, they could hardly even care to feign interest unless it's in an effort to hurt / upset you.
Grandiose narcs can be like that, but Grandiose/Vulnerable are just different modes that the narc can shift between. Everyone is different, of course, but some narcs are primarily Grandiose, some are primarily Vulnerable, and many are a blend.
I feel avoidance is all the time, anxious is more complex. Maybe your partner get you in the pocket so they are not anxious anymore, and they can ignore you.
I can’t help but think of the pregnancy and birth experience of the mother and how that plays into temperament. I had an emergency c-section and they had to begin cutting before I was numb. Once it was safe to gas me, they did so. But I can’t help but notice a kind of residual panic in that child. The children that I had calm pregnancies and normal child births are calmer. I also have a child where my pregnancy with was stressful. I notice this child is hyper sensitive.
I couldn’t leave the room when my daughter was a baby. Putting her is her crib at night she cried and cried for me. Leaving her at daycare at age 4 was horrible. She would hang onto my leg and not let me leave every single day for a year. As a 33 year old adult she is a grown up version of this insecure kid. I thought I was there for her. I thought I was that stable base. I raised a narcissist who lived with me to age 31. Now she’s gone and married and we are no contact. I was abused for a decade and didn’t know it. It’s heart wrenching.
For past 1 and half year I'm reading and understanding the attachment theory. And it has now become one of the most dominant lens I view the world with.
As a psych major we definitely covered and discussed attachment theory, attachment phases by Bowlby and attachment styles by Ainsworth! I wrote a paper on attachment theories and how neglect disregulates such styles and leads to possible personality disorders! One of my many favorite topics in the class!! Thank you Dr. Ramani for more insight on such theory!
What do y'all think- I think ideally BOTH parents would be consistent and there. Because I have met a MANY men with narcicissm that had full blown stay at home moms, but father's that just were not there / absent and inconsistent. The daddy issues are REAL
Yeah my mum was 'stay at home'. Caring or nurturing may aswell be some remote Icelandic meal plan. Being 'stay at home' is literal. Not a show of care or nurturing.
The last part of this video was so important for me. I know I was a good, secure attachment for my daughter but I strongly believe she was born with narcissist tendencies. Now that may be genetic and/or epigenetic since I was raised by an authoritarian parent and a neglectful, unemotional, unattached parent. I have been in therapy a long time and have CBT and DBT skills. Every therapist we worked with gave me the same advice I was already following: good boundaries, clear rules, praising good behavior. But raising her was incredibly difficult. My ex-husband was abusive and authoritarian and I was forced to have 50-50 custody. I believe my daughter was incredibly angry at me for leaving her exposed to his abuse and took it out on me in horrendous ways. However, as her brain developed and she finally started to be willing to use skills, listen to her therapists, and take accountability for her own behaviors, she has come out the other side. I'm not sure we managed to entirely dodge the narcissist bullet (covert narcissism), we have avoided BPD. So I'm thrilled with that. She is a kind, empathetic person to most people she is around and has made enormous strides in being empathetic towards me too. So telling me that I wasn't a bad parent that caused her narcissism is really important to me. Thank you.
The best explanation of attachment theory and how it relates narcissism. I so wish you had been my teacher when I was studying psychology. Thank you Dr. Ramani.
13:00 I've been watching your videos for the past few months and, while a lot of content is relatable and makes sense, this really hits the nail on the head for me. Stuck in a constant hell of trying to soothe my partner while also trying to get them to notice and fix some of the glaring issues (which are often self-inflicted). I remember near the end of our short-lived relationship they told me about some poor decision they made and were bragging about how they "got away with it". Instead of laughing and going along with it I called them out on it, and immediately they became extremely angry at me, accusing me of things that didn't happen or that just didn't make sense. Now that I can look back on it with more clarity it's interesting to see how narcissists often use projection as a last line of defense. You know you've really hit a pain point when the other person starts throwing a bunch of BS at you.
“It only takes ONE consistent parent” THANK GOODNESS!!!🙏🏼👏🏼❤️ I try to help my son, by learning him to analyse behaviour and feelings. He’s only 3 years old, but talking about how the characters in a cartoon might feel, and why they do this and that, and talking about what is right or wrong… Also addressing some issues.. not ever talking bad about his dad, but still addressing that his dad doesn’t always keeps his promises. Kinda like “sometimes dad has so many good ideas, but it is not possible to do/have/follow through on all of them. I understand why you’re disappointed..”
Thank you Dr. Ramany. I think my adult daughter is a narcissist. I’m not sure what to do anymore. I’m afraid to call or text her because I’m afraid I’m going to agitate her and make it harder for my grandsons. My daughter just turned 33, she really started to show signs(change) in 2019. Things got worse the end of 2019 when her grandmother passed away and one of her younger cousins passed away 3 days after her grandmother. She goes from wanting us( her dad and I) in her life to not wanting any contact. The last time we spoke was on my birthday last month, the conversation started off good and then she started bringing up things from the past.( only negative times/things , she never brings up anything positive) She’s always been closer to me(her dad was in the Navy and gone quite a bit) She doesn’t want anything to do with us and won’t let us see our grandson. My heart is shattered. I miss her and the kids so much. Can you touch base on having an adult narcissistic child and how to communicate with them? Thank you again, I’m so glad I found you.
Could she be depressed or have some other kind of mental illness? The fact that her behavior changed after triggering/stressful events would be more like a mental illness than narcissism.
@@joanna0988 She was changing before the the deaths in our family But, yes she got worse after. I’ve often wondered if she’s bipolar, the past couple/ few years She definitely shows signs of that which might be signs of being a narcissist also. (maybe they are similar??) I’m her mom and I’ll never give up on her. I am just praying for all of us to get through this. But, ultimately it’s all up to her. If you pray, please pray for our family. I just want our family back together ❤️
Seems to me the adoptee is more likely to be the anxious narcissist. I'm definitely of the aviodance narcisisst and all the adults, siblings and peers of my childhood scapegoated me. It's been a tough road to be aware of how I present to the world. I didn't have kids because I had to change me before my ignorant deviance torture a child.
I had (and continue to have) a negative form of attachment to situations or people who don’t treat me very nice. I’ve noticed it and trying to work on it. I give more than the healthy amount of chances to someone who I know won’t change. Thanks doctor.
I had always thought the narcissists in my life were dismissive avoidant but now that your describe the traits of anxious attachment in relational styles, yes that’s exactly what I experienced. I guess it was the punitive aspect that made it seem dismissive and avoidant. Likewise heading into the discard there is a great sense of dismissiveness and rejection
My experience, having had an avoidant, raging Narcissistic mother and multiple Narcissistic girlfriends, including my last one, has been the opposite. Avoidant people don't know how to express care and empathy, receive feedback, or to self-reflect well. Stonewalling and Silent Treatment are familiar hiding places for more avoidant types. Having healthy boundaries is one thing. Avoiding intimacy or accountability is another. Insecurely attached people, yes, struggle with feeling secure, but they are more attuned to their partners, and tend to be more caring, available and kind. I really like most of your content, and your videos are helping me recover from a recent break up with someone with huge Narcissistic tendencies, more of a Covert nature. But this assessment about Narcissists being usually insecurely attached feels partly off in my experience. This said, I imagine there is a range of why people become Narcissistic.
@@Protegida444 So true❤people get mixed up because they don't know, or have read wrong info somewhere. A lot of us are empaths and just trying to provide the stability, whilst the other styles can be real a roller-coaster and can have big needs.
@Cassadams In my experience, and also from research, because I tried to understand what had happened, I've found the grandiose narc to be fearful avoidant, because they need the drama, tantrums and loud fights, and the rage fits too! The one I knew would break and throw things. King of drama, the whole building could hear him. Dismissive avoidant style, as bad as the label may sound, is actually a conflict avoidant person, in stark contrast to the fearful style. A narc will invalidate and dismiss a person simply for reason of being a narc, regardless of whatever style, because it's in their nature. Covert I've found to be anxious style, because of having feel in control. This I thought was explained so well in the video, the punishment thing, ignoring, aggression, and scorn. I used to think this person was fearful but now I'm pretty convinced he was anxious.
@@Protegida444 as a way to attempt to understand my own experience, I have read two brilliant books on Narcissism and watched some 40 to 50 online videos on the subject from people I respect, not to mention my own years of personal therapy and close examination of myself and my relationship history. I speak from my own experience, which simply differs from yours. I am not meaning to "spread hateful misinformation" as you suggest, I am naming my experience, which apparently is not the same as yours. There are many varieties of Narcissists and the people that attract them. I am also highly empathic. My childhood experience set me up to be more anxious and insecure in my attachment style, yet I am a very caring and responsive person. As I am sure you are aware, there is a wide range of categorization of Narcissists, yet they can share common traits: lack of empathy, self-involvement, a tendency to rage or close themselves off when given direct feedback, a seductive, charming and often erratic facade, punishing tendencies when they don't get what they want, and so forth. Some Narcissists are more obvious and overt than others. Some are more covert. I found your remarks to narrowly interpret what I shared. I would invite you to consider that my experience and attachment style might differ substantially from yours, and that we can both have be subjected to the harmful effects of having Narcissistic people in our lives.
@@Protegida444 , our experiences differ. I am highly informed about Narcissism, have read two books on the subject and watched some 50 or more online videos. I am also highly empathic. My childhood set me up to be insecurely attached, and I have experienced Narcissists with differing attachment tendencies, but primarily have found that they tend to be avoidant and dismissive. And reading through the comments here, I am apparently not alone. This said, I am sorry that you have also been subjected to the harmful effects of Narcissists in your life. Please keep an open mind that the experience of other victims of Narcissistic abuse might differ from your own.
Really really helpful. Narcissism runs in my family but the buck stops here. Teaching my kiddos to really value each other is helpful...and making sure they no all people are created equal and GOD IS NO RESPECTOR OF PERSONS.
So true!!! I never could make sense of how awful my partner treats me when I'm going somewhere, like to visit my family far away. He was so awful to me and it never made sense to me.
I just learned about this in Developmental Psychology and had already made the anxious attachment style and narcissism connection when I started listening to your videos. I can definitely see it.
Dr.. Ramini, I hear you!! Loud & clear! Takes me time to process what you say & what I hear. There are times when certain information is quite scary before I get the "aha" moment. So off with the guilt baggage, I did the best I could under the circumstances. My adult kids are so different, equally lovable. Protecting myself now is my first & foremost priority. Forever so grateful for your blessed videos 🙏
I was wishing you would do a video on attachment styles. I had read about them before, but the author put an emphasis on the avoidant style as the source of narcissism, and the anxious style as a source of borderline issues. There was also the old wives tale of gender roles in their descriptions. I think he was going with narcissism as a diagnosis and not a descriptive term. Thank you for clearing it up. I had been misinforming people as the self proclaimed local expert of narcissism. Thank you for being here for us! XOXOXOXOXOXOXO
I could write a book about the experiences I had for over 15 months. He was also mixing drugs and liquor with his narcissism. I went into this Friendship trying to help him, not knowing anything about narcissism or drugs! Only after he threaten to kill my granddaughter Did I finally wake up! He even asked me if I thought he was narcissistic. I remember hearing the term in psych 101 in college that did not study it any further. When he got in jail I looked up on the Internet thru CZcams And found you on CZcams and started learning and that was in December 2021 and I haven’t stop learning since then! You absolutely A difference in my life!
Learned about attachment theory in maternal/newborn nursing class- but we only focused on newborns and didn’t cover how these styles can follow a person into adulthood. Could have pieced things together alot sooner had we covered that nearly ten years ago.
I had a narcissistic friend whom I just cut off contact with very recently. Our sons were friends as well and would play online games together. Their friendship started off really well until the time when we started taking away my son’s computer privileges due to disciplinary issues and that meant that he didn’t have any contact with my friend’s son for a while. Well, it didn’t take long until he started messaging my husband and I everyday, asking to play with our son. On times that my son just wanted to play by himself or do other things, he would call him by Facetime, even while we were eating dinner. It became too much for us and now we realize that it’s because he turned out to be a narcissist with attachment issues. The apple did not fall far from the tree as it seems and we have completely cut off contact to save any of us the stress of having to deal with them.
My abusive narc mom clearly did not love me nor did she want me at home. She usually pretended I did not exist and gave me the silent treatment. In my 20's I saved up enough to leave home. Then my mother got enraged and told me I was "abandoning the family" and how 'selfish' I was. I knew she never wanted me at home so I was confused why she never wanted me to leave either. When I left, she told me "don't even THINK you can come back if you fall flat on your face'. I was dis-inherited.....I am an empath. I still get anxiety but never became a narc. You can't miss what you never knew, so I became self sufficient. My older sister, though, became a narc and she was always clingy to my mother. I think the child's temperament plays a role in the outcome.
Almost 40 years of the push pull. I cannot express how much I appreciate your informational videos. They shed so much light on my upbringing and adult life. Why I chose who I chose to marry and what the result of that has been. I'd send a thank you note if I could!! I suppose a comment will have to do. Thank you.
Oh, yes! Thank you for mentioning the role genetics could be playing in Narcissism. Looking at my family dynamics over 3 generations I feel certain there must be some kind of genetic predisposition that determines who develops NPD. On Instagram, I used to follow a psychiatrist that dealt with Narcissism. I got talking with another follower about our families and how there must be some genetic element. The psychiatrist interrupted to say that we were wrong. When the other follower and I continued our conversation about our families and that we still think there must be some genetic aspect the psychiatrist blocked me!
I'm confused now. I always thought I was anxiously attached. But I have never had problems with Hellos or Goodbyes etc. If avoidant attachment means not really caring about close relationships, then that doesn't fit either. I guess I have some research on attachment theory to do. Very interesting video though
I'm confused too. The video should probably clarify that not everyone with anxious attachment has narcissism. There's also other experts saying the dismissive avoidant is more prevalent in narcissists. I think it would be helpful to mention that there are differences of opinion in the field in these videos if they do exist. Dr. Ramani is a great go to expert on this stuff, but if there are other psychologists who have a differing view than her I think it would be helpful to mention that. I would want to know what kind of disagreements are ongoing in the field on narcissism. If there's a variety of views, I would like to know all of them.
@@rypoelk997 I thought the avoidant attachment style was more prevalent in narcissists, too. Of course Dr Ramani highlighted the behaviors that are common in both anxiously attached and narcissists. It wasn't an extensive description of anxious attachment. I feel better now 🤣. Thought I could be a narcissist for a minute or two(again). 😆
Omg, this was the most spot on segment I have seen so far that describes my kids’ father. It gets right to the worst behavior and the way it triggers my mothering instinct. I just didn’t realize it was happening between myself and the sig. others in my life. They need to teach psychology in high school. I wish I could have known before. Hopefully my children can be more aware and avoid some of my mistakes. And again, thank goodness that it only takes one secure parent to stabilize the little ones for life. Imagine if it took two or more. We’d all be extinct probably. Ramani is so correct in her vision of a world where the majority of people had two or more safe and loving parents. We’d be so much further ahead.
What you are talking about is a result of the times we live in and has been that way for the last couple of hundred years because of the industrial revolution, before that a communities existed similar to the communes as a large family.
Narcs make us get attached to them by leaving us begging for their presence,love....its a strange feeling they create.
Aint that the truth...xxx
It feels parasitic
I never begged for his presence/love. But I understand now, that I had a sort of “addiction” to his personality type. Now that I know how toxic narcissists are, I take measures in my own life to protect myself from these personalities!
They turn you into an anxiously attached partner even if you weren't the type before exactly because of the hot and cold way they treat you.
@@disappearingremedy7400 it is
I never felt emotionally safe as a child. Now I know why.
My nephew who spent a week in the hospital before they realised he was allergic to dairy. He would cry for whatever amount of time my sis would be gone.
Yeah me too, I felt vulnerable and afraid but was too young to know what it was. So the emotional stress manifested itself through bedwetting, nail-biting, and easily frightened "crybaby".
@@apostatejim2080 Same here.
@@apostatejim2080 so weird, I suffered from the same things as a child. It was a very difficult time for me. Nothing like getting your nose rubbed into your mess like I was a dog. Thanks for sharing.
I felt a lot of guilt, sometimes for nothing at all.
Here is where the paranoia that you're really the narcissist creeps in, because being raised in neglect both makes you likelier to become a narcissist and likelier to become a target of one.
No situation is a guarantee for developing narcissism. It only increases the chance, but a lot of ppl come out with their hearts intact.
@@Picca65 I’m realizing that I have a lot of anxiety from growing up trying to placate an emotionally fragile, possibly narcissistic parent. So when i have to leave other people, I’m not mad at them for abandoning me but rather worried they’ll be mad at me. It took me an hour to realize that, but the distinction feels crucial.
@@b-six-twelve same here. Yes, that's crucial. Stay strong
@@Picca65 ..Yeah - true. I don't understand why Narc. go thro their whole lives - in the 'Narc. Club' !?! Maybe they never had any really good friends who challenged them. !! My Dad and brother were - so to my Husband and his parents. I - just observe not absorb mostly now -they have learnt not to mess with me, but I will 'hold the line', permanently now. ;))
The anxious attachment style is different in narcissists than those non-narcissists who were raised by a narcissist. The narcissists sees their anxiety as an excuse to lie, gaslight, do smear campaigns and otherwise systematically opress a person. Simply being anxious or having an anxious attachment style is not narcissism on its own.
I’ve been anxiously attached my entire life due to a cold German mother that was more interested in having a clean house than validating my emotions. At three, I started nail biting due to anxiety. Going to school (starting at age three) always resulted in inconsolable crying and fear. I found it extremely difficult to self-soothe (as is the case with those anxiously attached) and am learning how to do that now, in my mid-fifties. Of course, the family narrative was that I was somehow flawed or “too sensitive” for being such a crybaby away from home. Now I understand that it was my parents’ inattentiveness and lack of mirroring that made me so fearful about life. 🧐
Keep at it. Youve made progress just in the realization and awareness.
I’m sorry you had to grow up like this. I went through very similar childhood. Hope we can heal ourselves. Wish you the best
@@elfglow4557 I relate with each and every word of yours. More interested in having a clean house than validating my emotions. Always tagged as too sensitive, fearing going to school. Narcissistic abuse from the mother is the worst thing in the world.
Wow, my mother is also German lol.. basically a good person but always very critical, judgemental and not validating at all, not emotionally supportive. I didn't become a narcissist to my knowledge, but I carry that with me by always seeking approval from people who are older or more senior than me, I am always looking for that supportive parent figure. In my life I also struggled with a sense of identity and always "fell in love" with people who didn't, or couldn't, love me. My brother is pretty much diagnosably schizoid or at least very significant traits. We had a normal childhood, so just goes to show how much kids need emotional support growing up.
@@justlivinglife465 You sound like you are codependent, just like so many others (including myself) who have been raised by narcissists. Thankfully, with much help from the internet and CZcams, we can all move out of codependency and learn how to soothe and validate ourselves! 💪
In my last relationship I kept trying to figure out my ex's issues as I was definitely feeling anxiously attached.. He fits the description of the neglectful narcissist and a dismissive avoidant. In the end it didn't matter which he was as my boundaries got better while his treatment of me got worse and I ended the relationship. The fact that I was trying so hard to figure out how to navigate the relationship was the biggest red flag and not something I'll do again.
THIS. Another piece of the puzzle to putting my spine back together and give myself some confidence in navigating new relationships. That’s my fear. I don’t want to disengage from the world entirely but how do I know? My narc radar is obviously out of whack. *It doesn’t matter what they are (they’ll never be authentic), the red flag is me trying so hard to bend to fit the mold only to find the mold is constantly changed.* 😳🤯
Im going thru a relationship with a dismissive avoidant, im so confused here.
@@TheBaumcm this! 🙌
This is a take that I was surprised to find was missing from this video. I'm still recovering from the narcissistic abuse I experienced with a dismissive ex that I cut out of my life a couple months ago, and at this rate I feel like my recovery process might even take longer than the eight month span of the relationship itself. I have never, ever once been in a relationship that made me feel so inadequate and insecure.
The most self-centered people I've ever known have had avoidant attachment, and the most open hearted have been anxious. The idea of an anxiously attached narcissist makes sense to me (I can have some narcissistic tendencies when avoidant behavior from a partner triggers my anxious side) but to say that narcissists are predominantly anxious does not conform to my personal experience.
@@umbrascitor2079 My experience totally matches yours. Avoidant attachment is characterised by an over-reliance on the self (which often, but not always, comes with an over-inflated sense of self). This was a really one-sided, and I think quite false, video. Yes, some people with anxious-attachment are punitively rageful but that's not true of most people with that attachment style.
My therapist gave me a book 3 days ago called Attached where it discusses the different types of attachment styles and their interactions with one another. First of all, amazing read. Please check it out. Second, it’s very interesting that styles can change due to dramatic events. For example, I was raised by a narc father that was always helicoptering and overbearing. My mom was always available and supportive. With the combination, I had a secure attachment style.
My first marriage (and first relationship, long story) was with a narc of a different type (dads grandiose, she was covert). Despite countless times of having avoidance thrown at me, I was more disheveled than traumatized. I stayed secure for the most part.
Found my next girlfriend days after my separation started (yeah it wasn’t a highlighted time in my life lol). She was also a narc, but more malignant and grandiose mixed, so I yet again missed the signs. She was most anxious AND avoidant, and with my mind being in such a raw shape at that point (from the separation and having to prove to myself that I could do this relationship thing correctly if given the chance), she molded me like clay.
Almost a year after that relationship, I’m now realizing I’ve developed an anxious attachment style and it’s been causing issues in my current, very healthy relationship with a very secure person. As always, thanks to therapy, independent in-depth research, and videos from people like Dr Ramani, I’m learning what caused it, triggers it, and how to work myself back to a secure style. Will it be easy? Not a bit. Will it be worth it? Always. Thank you as always Dr Ramani for helping on my continuous healing journey ❤️
Yes, I have seen the push pull in the narcissist between wanting my attention and wanting to punish but over time it was replaced with being avoidant. Then it became a toss up between being avoidant and trying to be “good” so he could be praised every so often. If not praised enough he can be punitive and rail at how unfair everyone is to him.
This is my experience with my son also 😭
@@npdsurvivorsmith9962 I am so sorry 😢 for your experience. That must be so awful.
Wow this is exactly what I am going through
That's exactly what I've experienced by someone who I know for sure was narcissistic, pull-push, hot-cold. Worst experience ever.
If you take the bait you get punished, if you refuse it as well.
These people want full control and don't give a rat's A** about anybody else's feelings and jerk them around as if they have none.
Narcissists and by extension, their victims have either anxious, avoidant or disorganized styles of attachment. That’s why they gravitate towards each other and why it’s so hard for some people to leave these narcs.
True
I try to validate my children's emotions *as a priority* and accept them for who they are. I try to help them learn that making mistakes is ok. (I didn't learn any of this in my childhood). The hardest thing is talking to them about their dad's behaviour without demonising him. It confuses the hell out of them!
Your videos help me so much, Dr Ramani. Thank you from the bottom of my heart 💛
I struggle with same issues..not always successful 😞
“The golden child” haha
Yes, validate your son emotions and opinions, cause when you're not, he/she gonna find someone else to connect emotionally, don't let others take the parent role instead of you....
I see enough Narc and Psycho's in my family, and iam already afraid of the trauma my brother gonna give her child later, i already saw some abuse with her son, especially his wife, his wife use ayah and such to make him comply, when those child only want to play, have emotional connections with her mom.....
I don't want to see my lil Nephew, facing life with stress and trauma like i do, so i pray to God, He will Keep him safe, and give him guidance, cause i see myself as child at him, abused and already blamed as little as 5 years old....
I look at him with love, he only want emotional connections from her parent figure, he want to her mom validates, and understand him, and he can read newspaper already as 5 years old, sometimes he's on tantrum, but we love him...
And let me try to guess, my Nephew has Autistic traits already, he already read can read and spell a word at 4, at 5 he read newspaper....
I thought I was getting solidity and security and faithfulness and human dignity when I married! I was certainly wrong! I was of the belief that a marriage is a reciprocal exchange of love and caring for each other! I certainly found out different! There was no solidity! Fidelity for the narcissist was out of the question!There was no security in that my inner beliefs would someday become real.... I had daily inner implorations of hope that all went up in smoke! thank you Dr. Ramani! Yes! You are here for all of us every week and I so appreciate that! ❤️🙏🕊
So did I, Peter.
Oh, how I relate to this statement of yours...reciprocity, fidelity, care all of it was non existent. Almost broke my spirit, I'm still in the beginning of my journey towards a better, authentic future...it's scary, but nothing is scarier than the though that I could exist (can't even use the word "live") the way I did for the rest of my days...what a waist of life that would be..
You just recounted my story!
Sad 😔 to hear of your pain in this!
@@wms72 🥺 for you, too!
My mom grew up in an abusive household. I'm convinced that she conditioned me to be overly empathic to overcompensate and to give her the validation she needs. When I don't, or whenever I do something she thinks is in the slightest way wrong, she loses it on me. I've tried grey stoning, but she just sees that as me complying and that I'm fixed (I have CPTSD).
Your childhood sounds enmeshed. Patrick Teahan videos are very good on dysfunctional childhood
No contact....
Keep learning and implementing new things. Add a boundary and stick to enforcing it. If she ignores it as mine did, you may have to go no contact for a while to make your point, and it will be awful for a short time. It’s a really important move. Just get through it and you will have her attention. Grey rock minimizes outbreaks of rage and devaluation. It is not a tool for creating boundaries and improving you position in the “relationship.” Wishing you strength and wisdom.
Stand up to her
Raise your voice over hers,
Don't lose control no matter what she says
Study what gaslighting is.
She will back down.
@@eunice6694 this might be irresponsible to say as you don’t know where on the spectrum she is and it may have consequences for the OP. I think the better bet would be to follow Dianna’s recommendation to find what works in her situation from the number of strategies that exist. Sounds like there might also be a struggle with how to be authentic while dealing with it. Mine is a hypochondriac which triggers my savior complex. Now, I respond with, sounds like something that needs to be checked out and possibly treated but from your symptoms, it doesn’t sound fatal. Stays true to my need for honesty, reality, and compassion for others, without gaslighting or minimizing his feelings (cuts his fuse). I found this by trial and error. If you decide not to go no contact, stick with this community as they may have suggestions for other specific strategies to help.
I had a narc mom and a narc husband (no surprise there) when my kids were little, but I had no language, insight, or understanding for narcissism. All I knew to do was the opposite of what my mother and my kids’ father did, so that was my guiding parenting principle. I got a “Children Learn What They Live” card out of a box of formula and put it on the wall and read it every day. I have two successful, kind, and intelligent sons of whom I am incredibly proud. They are 38 and 41, and I am only recently learning about and understanding what we endured.
Not my partner but my mother parentifying me and re-enacting her anxious childhood. Emotional abuse for me. But that’s in the past now. Excellent overview. Thank you!
Can't wait to say the same!
Hi! We have the same mom😂
I've noticed this re-enactment of their past they soo much hate as well.
Sometimes it's like they want to take revenge on their own parent(s) through their kids and spouse or something.
Even when they are aware they still can't help themselves.
Like "I didn't get it so no one will" !! or, "I didn't get any but I turned out perfect didn't I ? so don't complain because I had it much worse then you"!
Yea, when your a child of those types you don't get a fair chance even and later in life you will hear the narcissist abusive parent tone of why you are such a failure and bla bla they had kids when they were your age and so on.
my sister & you and I - we are SIMILAR.
Ya it’s so sad and unfortunate how the narcissist as the parent doesn’t want you to live your life and grow up. My toxic narcissistic mom wanted to hold me back from experiencing life. It’s like she’s mad at me for wanting to leave and do my own thing as a healthy person should. It’s sick how she thinks I’m bad because I’m not a child and she couldn’t keep control over me forever. Really messed up how these types of individuals are not healthy with how they act and then lash out immaturely and angry at the victim for nothing.
I'm watching the same dynamic. Woman I know infantalizing her child to such an obvious degree. The girl is two and a half and you have never seen a helicopter like this one, always shoving her tit in her mouth. wants to nurse her until she's 5 or 6. Whatever floats your boat, but it is so obviously not about the child, who doesn't talk- doesn't have to before someone jumps, and doesn't really engage even if spoke to, looking her in the eyes. It's not just the extended nursing. I don't think she's let the girl out of her sight since she's been born, plans to ... unschool. Very sad to see what a trapped victim the child is.
@@juliettedauterive3745 Narcissistic hippies are the absolute WORST.
I'm 58 yo & have a healthy 84 yo MOTHER that's hell bent/hell BOUND on keeping me dependant on her so mommy can Micro MANAGE my life til her evil deaths end.
Being a psych major I remember when we covered attachment styles , I found it so interesting . I agree completely that most narcissists have an anxious attachment style . You’re the best !
I disagree. Most of the Narcissists I've experienced have been more avoidant and lacking in empathy or patience or care.
I think most of them have disorganized attachment style, hence the pull and then push.
The push pull is crazy making, totally.
Every narcissist I've known, whether they be grandiose, covert, neglectful or what have you have been distinctly avoidant.
@@cassadams6015mine was definitely disorganized/fearful avoidant
I studies Psychology in college. (DSM 4 was out at the time) and its amazing to me how we glossed over the personality disorders, I think they were only a chapter for all of them combined. Its amazing how many patient facing clinicians are blissfully unaware of narcissism, solely because they aren't given much importance. Dr. Ramani, you are doing absolutely groundbreaking work.
My rumination has lessened dramatically. I beiieve its this channel and all the sharing here that is helping me wind it down. This channel is bringing me to my senses. I''ve realised that through rumination I've blocked off creativity and self-growth. I wish this channel had been around years ago. What a gift it is. It's all down to Dr Ramani of course. This video is another one that is giving me a timely lesson. I am staying with this channel because it is a healing path. 🕉
I've successfully managed to not raise an narcissistic child or otherwise damage any of my children by not having any. 😇
I can relate to that. Even used to say won't have children until I can be sure I won't damage them the way I felt I'd been damaged.
Not everyone chooses to have children no matter how theyre raised
Decided at 20 not to have kids and this was in the 70’s . Didn’t want to pass the generational curse on.
I chose not to at 14 . I didnt want to pass on the abuse.
Me too. Not planning on having any even though my motherly instinct to have children is extremely strong and just looking at children warms my heart. But I don’t think I’m healed enough and I will not damage the innocent being I bring to this world.
I raised my stepson from age 23 months to adulthood. Mom left at 18 months. Spent years getting treatment for him due to severe behavior issues from abandonment but a special place that no longer exists in Indianapolis made the difference. 2 weeks of intensive treatment followed by 4 yrs of excellent counseling and he is a healthy 34 yr old.counselors tell me he is an anomaly to have faired so well.
What a good thing you did for him ❤️
Might as well accept the fact, that you were his mom.
@@Star-dj1kw thank you. counselors said I saved his life. now many years later, I can agree with that.
@@conniethingstad1070 ....WONderful story - and reSULT, CONNIE !! God bless you BOTH. XX ;)
So nice to hear a successful story.
At 62 I find myself watching CZcams videos of young families that are healthy,respectful and have truly happy home lives. I think it validates for me that the neglect I experienced in childhood really happened. Even thinking about seeing family members fills me with anxiety and makes me break down. My siblings don't get it.
To be fair 50 years ago kids feelings and needs weren't really considered by parents. The CZcams families do concern me though because although the kids have a nice home life, being filmed constantly and having to be "on" for the camera must take a toll.
"CZcams videos of young families that are healthy,respectful and have truly happy home lives" Soo perfect they should be on YT ?
I hope you don't believe too much of that..
@@LSMH528Hz not really the place to make judgemental comments. Try to have a good day.
@@suemick8709 I think the point they are trying to make is these CZcams families are mostly for show. People that are monetize the family most likely are not thinking of the children first. They are taking the freedom of choice from those kids. Most likely they are narc for parents.
Interesting 🤔🤔
I love attachment theory! Since I've learned about it, I have understood that I had an insecure attachment style. I later learned it was disorganized. This is due to the fact that I grew up in home with a narcissistic parent, suffering through rage fits and abuse. Due to this environment, I grew to behave similarly and struggle with disorganized attachment. I have done a lot of inner work and reflection and I try to be accountable and not shame myself for my brain being wired in a way that I did not have control over. However now, I have to work very hard on my behavior, self awareness and accountability for slip ups. But I could tell my current partner was disorganized before I realized he was also narcissistic and I had to look at myself in the mirror.
This makes so much sense to me about the narcissist that was in my life! He never had a safe consistent safe person in his life! He was abandoned by his mother on numerous occasions. His mother was also bi-polar and manic depressive and consistency was/is NOT a strong suit of hers!! The push pull was definitely alive during the relationship with my ex (narcissist). I am so happy I have went zero contact. Getting stronger every day!! Thanks for your amazing videos!!
I was raised by a narcissistic mother who could be very infantile. She would tell me endless sob stories about her life, & from a very young age, I thought it was my job to be her emotional support & "therapist". I would try to comfort her & constantly reassure her that the world was not such a dangerous & scary place as she imagined, to help her cope, even though I was never allowed to explore or experience things in the world. My mom & I had a severe trauma bond & for the 25 years I spent with her almost exclusively, she kept me isolated from the world & other people. During the last five years I spent with her, I began calling her "baby", because I was under the false assumption that I (as her child) could somehow re-parent my mom & if I could just "love her enough" it would heal her. I now understand that narcissists are like a black hole & nothing you do will ever be enough or "fix" them - that is the responsibility of the individual. I am now free from that relationship & working daily to heal & re-parent myself.
Sometimes I think of them like an addict, there's noting you can do that'll make them feel loved, there's no way of reaching in there. Afterwards you just get that sense of helplessness and sadness, because there's nothing left to do but take care of you.
There must be different levels of anxiety attachment. I am aware I have an attachment disorder. I remember in my 30's when I first had a therapist, I would feel overwhelmed and call her between sessions. Not every week. I also would call her several times, if she didn't return my call. The difference is I learned and accepted boundaries. I did stop calling realizing that the feeling passed. Also, I learned techniques to distract myself from the anxiety or self soothe. I don't call my therapist in between appointments anymore. This may be related to I do have empathy. Also, I realized that I needed to stop using the therapist as a crutch. I stopped focusing on my feeling of being overwhelmed, and I knew there are clients in emergency situations. Finally, I recognized my behavior is inconsiderate of the therapist; also it's inconsiderate of other clients who are in a dire situation. Take note I did learn this over a period of time. My first therapist did move on to advance in her career. This was eventful for me. I learned that I could survive through the grief. It was a long path of learning techniques, which I learned through work and practice over several years. I did actively set this as a goal in my mind to pursue. I never had punitive intentions. Lastly, Children were an inconvenience for my mother. My dad believed it was the mother's role to be the caretaker. My father did provide for our material essential needs food, clothing, shelter..ect
Couldn't relate to anything more than the last few lines and going back up.., and gives me a lot of insight, thank you
Rant: Once a person reaches a certain level of maturity, explanations for problem behavior bother me for one reason: Lots of people suffer lots of early trauma, sickness, death, and loss, but, by and large, their chosen core values determine how they react. A person committed to nonviolence of body and mind would never take their issues out on another or ignore someone in their presence. Those who don’t care about honesty, integrity, communication, etc., tend to act like dysregulated toddlers throughout their lives. I’m tired of “excusing” bad behavior because of a “traumatic past.” There is no excuse, there is only commitment to decency or not. Freedom doesn’t mean free to be cruel. True freedom comes from self-control.
👏👏👏👏
okay i get your point but do you not believe i growth? is everyone supposed to reach a good point at a specific time in their life. Does everyone who harms someone do it intentfully? do we as humans not make mistakes and learn from them? do we not say sorry and make a mens for a reason? Some people have bad/toxic/unhelathy traits and i 100% agree that the person on the receeding end of that deserves the persons empathy and apology and a firm resolouting they will try not to make the same mistake but people do change and people childhood and even adulthood can sometimes have a negative impact on their behaviour such as leaving a abusive family home or marriage these relationships habe a negatove impact on the one who is in them and sometimes that person has picked up negative behaviour that they deem as wrong and probably never once had.
"Once a person reaches a certain level of maturity...". Well, the fact is that these people don't get there, whatever the reason. It's okay to understand or even have some compassion for them. However, excusing their destructive impact on others isn't required, nor do I think it is right. I don't think emotional maturity is a straight line linear process like, for instance, physical maturity of the body seems to be. Understanding, empathy or compassion don't have to rule out accountability for one's behavior, nor negate the emotions we feel when confronted with their damage.
It’s true but I think that’s where spirituality/religion can come into play. We all look human but our souls are not all the same. Some people are more worldly and more likely to repeat karmic cycles. It does suck that people are like that, but not everyone can be “good”.
I grew up with severe hearing impairment. Hearing aids were a stigma. Now I understand, this helped me have a beautiful empathetic approach and connection, but also made me a narcissist’s punching bag. I didn’t spare myself from one ounce of narcissistic abuse. It’s scary when the love of your life that willingly loved me turned so cruel 12 years into our relationship. The saddest part….he was taking advantage of knowing he was my translator.
It’s all sorts of fear. But the loneliness instilled by narcissistic abuse coexisting with an invisible impairment was and is the darkest days. We gotta look inward. We can be ok. Im getting healthier as we all can. Hugs to all of you. No matter what you are going through. Let’s love ourselves.
You’re so brave! Sending you hugs from across the 🌎!
❤
Does anyone else have a partner who, when you’re trying to step out the door to get to work or you’re late for a medical appointment (anything!) he/she starts talking to you about stuff that can absolutely wait but they just won’t stop talking until you tell them you’ve gotta go? And sometimes even then they don’t stop?
Yes, that is what I feel my narcissist is trying to get me to do, be his parent and that somehow it is my job to fix him until he becomes this equal partner. And if I think he needs to fix himself I have done some grand injustice to him. He doesn’t see he failed to live up to the promises he made. Everyone else in his life treats this like his issues are just normal weaknesses and he is being abandoned and do not see who he really is.
Mine would complain of a headache after working outside in the sun for too long. I asked if he'd drank any water, he went off in a huff because what he wanted was not a solution but sympathy.
@@barbaramale9106 yes, I can relate. Mine also would only want sympathy and no solutions. He would not like me asking about what he tried to help him if he didn’t feel well. He saw that as criticism. He also re-wrote history to create a version of life where I did not offer him help or attention. He paints a different version of reality for everyone he knows. He makes himself out to be some innocent victimized husband who is going to be abandoned.
@@Nutritionistheanswer, he’s a classic, covert, vulnerable narcissist. So was mine. They are very cowardly.
I can relate to this. Since I’ve realized I can’t help him my life has gotten better. Now he is taking steps to help himself. Hopefully it’s not an act. He goes back and forth a lot.
@@peacekeeper4092 ..Yeah Hun. I think that as we get stronger, we are able to detach from them more - and lead by example. x ;)
I learned about attachment theory through la leche league as a new mother in the mid 1990s. I was and am a proponent in helping to facilitate a secure attachment.
The burn out....its soul sucking.
It really is.... Do famous ppl have these attachment problems
@Jody Ayers - toxic people love to hurt you which leads to burn out. It sucks!!!
@@bumblebee803 it was the wrapping of my mind around that aspect of it all that really began to set me free. To know that they actually enjoyed my misery.
@@jodyayers4592 I know. But it goes much deeper for me. I'm still surrounded by really toxic people and I'm just wondering when is it all going to end? I've put 5 years of really hard self-work and seem to fail in protecting myself. No matter what I do. I'm really, really tired.
@@bumblebee803 you have to get them all out of your life. What one doesn't suck out of you, the others will. 😔❤
This series Rocks! I had some MAJOR moments of clarity about my Narc Mom and Partner. I've been looking for a point of reference that makes more sense for me, and this is it. That Need You/Need to Punish You dynamic describes my Narcs perfectly. I even more clearly now see how I unhealthily became the Parent/Rescuer/Fixer in hopeless situations. I'm still feeling a huge weight being lifted from this powerful clarity. Thank You, Thank You, Thank You for everything you do for this community!
Leave the narc partner you cannot fix the partner nor the relationship. That person will never stop punishing and might escalate if he senses your "clarity".
@@suzannehartmann946 On it. Thank you.
I remember this from Child Development class. The anxiously attached child grows into an adult who's had many years of managing their fears without overcoming them. So, their relationships are now dominated by fears of loss and how to manipulate an attachment out of others, knowing they can never get it based on trust alone.
Bingo
I have consciously made an effort to remove us from toxic situations almost instantly.
I’ve built a network of amazing friends and loved ones that I was vulnerable enough to share my needs with and they always come through for us.
As soon as I see narcissistic traits I speak through it and monitor alternative behavioural responses.
We practice responding vs reacting.
We do not go to bed not having had a talk through something.
I always emphasis empathic exchanges and resolutions.
We hit speed bumps and navigate those as they come.
I do practice attachment parenting, I have one autistic child, it was the biggest blessing cos he made me curious and was my introduction to conscious parenting.
Antique, what a thoughtful lifestyle you have created! To actively implement healthy, empathic exchanges is a parental home run. I am inspired to figure out what that means at a more granular level as I strive to learn to be more healthy. I am desperate to get it right for my kids and may have only a couple more years to implement my own lessons for us. Thank you for the example.
Oh My Goodness!! The wanting reassurance from me but also wanting to punish me is what completely killed the relationship. He would get mad at me for being busy with work, not being able to talk on the phone because I was sleepy or not seeing him enough but as soon as I try to correct my behavior by calling him, making plans to see him, canceling meetings so I had more time for him, etc then he'd punish me for days and weeks with cold, rejecting, passive aggressiveness, deflection and bringing up the same argument over and over again. It was exhausting. And then he'd get mad at me for threatening to leave him or actually ending things with him and blame me for ruining the relationship by leaving. It's good to know that I couldn't rescue him because I wanted to save him and get him help and show him love but it was killing me. My body felt literal pain whenever I talked to him. His mother was abusive and neglectful so its definitely an issue with childhood trauma. Some times I still wonder if I could've done more but I would've hurt no only myself but also my child if I did. I just can't give 100% of myself to anyone. I exist and my feelings and needs matter too.
NOT my job to re-parent my partner(s). That felt yucky-incestuous even. Not willing to do it. Partner with, yes. Re-parent? Oh NO WAY
Marcia Storm,You look stunning 🌹🌷,hope you are not with a narc 😈!
When my son was born Attachment Parenting was all the rage and everyone talked about attachment theory and I knew so many parents who "wore" their babies and slept with their kids forever, and required that their infants be on their persons at all times. These people often criticized me because I didn't do that. I see some commenters commenting that they did this type of parenting so they did the right thing. I saw a lot of what I interpreted as narcissitic attachment parenting being called the right way to parent. The parents were so into being seen as perfect parents who were obsessed with doing this Attachment Parenting style right. I saw some of them as more "anxiously attached." For myself, I had to listen to a lot of their B.S. because I didn't parent in that style, and the primary reason was my son refused that style. He hated to be "worn" because he wanted to see out, so he prefered a stroller where he could look out, but I got so much grief from people for not wearing him close to me. Also, I could not sleep with him because he was so active and it seemed to make him wake up a lot. He chose not to breastfeed at 11 mo., as well. I tried to see what HE needed, not what I needed so that I could convince myself I was a good parent and pat myself on the back. I've missed a lot of cues and been a bad parent at times, but I hope that he feels allowed to be who he is and feels secure and loved because of that, and does not feel burdened by my shortcomings.
I like some of the ideas of attachment parenting but as with everything you have to adapt and adjust to your own situation. I have 3 kids and I know that there is no one style of anything, you need to do what works for everyone. My first was like yours and hated being held when she was sleeping but my other 2 would scream when I put them down so in my experience both ways were positive and beneficial 🤷
Good for you for taking cues from your son and not trying to push a square peg through a round hole! I could relate when you said your son “hated to be worn.” My daughter hated to be cradled like a baby, but, rather, wanted to be held upright so she could look all around. Go figure 🙄. . . It would be nice if they all came with an instruction manual. 🤪
It is always a pleasure to watch your videos Dr. Ramani and learn with you, thank you😊💖 I have read the book "Attached" and you talk about it in your latest book as well. You are right on everything. I have experienced this in narcissistic relationships with the narcissists being anxious-avoidant which is so confusing and very stressful for us on the other side. Even when we are secure, it affect us deeply. Exactly as you describe it💔
I realized that crying babies unglued me (grands crying created anxiety) in talking with my son I blurted out “no one ever came.”
This was a huge aha moment. I was a head-banger as a child & used to rock to self soothe.
Comforting each other works well ❤️
Wow! What an “aha” moment! It’s so cool when we finally have these realizations and the puzzle pieces of our lives start to fall into place!
Holy shit my cousin used to bang his head
Yess exactly on point. My ex tried to punish me for saying his real things on his face. So he tried to punish me by breaking up. But I knew the game and got out of this mess early. Thank you doctor 💗
Good for you!. I didn't. Played the tug of war for several years. I didn't know what I was dealing with. I didn't know that there's Narcissism😔..until I started researching and came across Dr. Ramani. She's the only one I found that explains it in a way I could I understand more.
Interesting. I’ve definitely heard grandiose narcissism associated with dismissive avoidant attachment and covert narcissism associated with fearful avoidant attachment. Anxious attachment is generally considered the closest to secure and studies are clear that anxious attachers easily become secure when they experience a lasting relationship with a secure partner whereas a DA or FA is, in the vast majority of cases, is too insecure to successfully date a secure partner long term. I love your videos, Ramani-keep it up! I do disagree with this particular one.
I have to agree with you. I love her and usually see truth in what she says. But this one seems to be a bit wonky to me. I have a anxious attachment style, yet I have very few narcissistic traits. My husband, who I believe to have a disorganized style, has more of the narcissistic traits. I believe being anxious is what makes one a more likely target for a narcissist because you tend to do whatever is necessary to make your partner happy and stay. I’m not sure I’ve ever heard of a anxiously attachment wanting to punish their partner. I’m no expert, but I have been in therapy with this as the basis and have personally dug into it via books, podcasts, etc. Usually it’s affirmation and confirmation that sooth the anxiously attached and help them respond more appropriately. It’s the avoidance that want attention, but don’t want to give it.
I disagree with her here, too. In my experience, it is the avoidant types who are most inclined to detach, stonewall and use silent treatment and to avoid intimacy all around, and to punish. Like yourself, I have an insecure attachment style, and find myself attracted in my past to many Narcissistic highly avoidant women
It's all nice and rosy until the therapist tells the anxious attachment style that they can be narcissistic themselves. I see it on many videos. Too hard of a pill to swallow. We just cannot see it while we're in it. Anxious can be in such denial. I know I was one. I was the good one, the rational one, the healthy attached one, the balanced one. He was the narcissist, or at best avoidant ofc lol. Till I woke up. And realized it made no sense whatsoever as a grown up to be in a relationship where I felt so unfulfilled and finally took responsibility over my own well being. Completely shifted my perspective.
This made me cry today, for the child I was, and who this made me. I feel actual pain and wish I could have parented that small child........ how anyone could have harmed them and continue to harm the adult they became I cannot get my head around it 🙏
they have no empathy so they only care about themselves.
Curious thing is that they themselves became like that just that exact way but still would keep behaving like that even if they realized it.
@@LSMH528Hz that so true, and I feel so awful for them.... I truly do. I feel awful for everyone involved. It's such a difficult situation and consequently makes everyone very dyregulated within that mix. The piece that stands out for me is why didn't ahyone sit back and say wait a minute. .. is this okay, is this a good thing, can things be different. Leaves one in cognitive dissonance and lives wasted. The world is a funny place not 8n the laughing type. Kind wishes you you 😊😊
I’ve never seen a 51 year old act like such a child. I’m burned out, I feel for her mom. Like a good neighbor stay over there. Yep mom was the narc example.
I really felt that part about if I'm always there and always loving then I can fix their anxious attachment. Very early on in my relationship my abuser predicted that I would leave him eventually because "everyone always leaves" which reinforced my commitment to not leave no matter how scary things got - I saw it as my mission not to be the one who leaves him this time.
I appreciate your comments about what their job is and what the victim's job is in the relationship. I've been no contact (as no contact as possible with kids involved) for 4 years and I still think daily about going back and "doing better" to make him feel secure in my love. Your videos have helped keep me from acting on that urge but this one especially is impactful because it adds a counter argument to the fixer narrative in my head. Thank you!
Great informational video 🙂 I'm a substitute teacher and I have noticed narcissist traits in SOME of the students around age 8-10 years. I also know most of these kids came from broken families. I have heard some heart breaking stories from the kids myself. Some students have even called me (mom). Anyways I'm thinking some narcissism is on the raise due to the break down of families and likely both parents will have to work full-time to support themselves. So this leaves less time to be with their children. Also being a single parent can be very stressful and if they do remarry or have a partner, it comes with its own set of problems. Teachers and students should learn about narcissism and realize it's becoming a problem. Knowledge is power 💕👍
Thank you for creating a video that a layman can understand. It's very enlightening.
Thank you Dr. R. today, nearly every day, and for more than a year of enlightenment. 💔 getting stronger daily.
I was extremely thankful to my one parent who gave me so much love. And if my aunts are listening, THANK YOU, I needed you. It's true, if you just have older person you can count on, you can make it. I think.
So, I never had an issue with hello/goodbye until my husband. He had a coldness that would come over him when we said goodbye/hello. I would linger to try to get the normal response I had in healthy relationships...which would lead to frustration with both of us. My parents/extended family/ex boyfriend and his family would hug/say loving words/linger a lil and part ways waving/blowing kisses/etc. So, I was in shock not knowing what to do with my husband and felt absolutely rejected which led to being sad and angry eventually. 11 years in and it is like pulling teeth to have him give a kiss or acknowledgement that I exist when he comes home or leaves. Growing up I saw my Dad immediately go to my Mom and give her a loving embrace and kisses/I love you when he got home from work everyday. With my narc, he exhibits dismissive attachment. I did notice that when I started coming around his parents....eventually his Mom would tell his Dad to hug him and for him to hug his Dad....soooo...that was interesting.
"It's not the world we live in"
Makes me wish of a world full of empaths instead of full of narcissists that one day I could live in.
I wish the same...
One blissful weekend when my kids were teens, we attended a church youth retreat where the peace and empathy were palpable. My son asked me if that was what heaven was like.
I absolutely know that most church events are not like that. But on this one occasion, like minded teenagers created a very special atmosphere.
@@Aimeesund That's wonderful!
Love your work, Doc, and wanted to share that the reason the mental health profession doesn't know the root cause of narcissism or the other cluster B's is that they don't even consider the spirit of the person. We all have free will to choose to either keep a tender heart and be a loving empathic person, or to harden our heart and be focused on self and out to fulfill our own desires with no concern for others. We can choose to be open to God and serve Him, or to serve the evil one and be under his control. The cluster B personalities are the ones who are the abusers of others. They lie, steal and kill. Those are the works of the evil one who God's word says "came to steal, kill, and destroy.," and that "He is the Father of lies."
S Summers,You look stunning 🌹🌷🌷,hope you are not with a narc 😈!
@@christianpulisic7784 Narc free and happier than ever! Thanks
@@ssummers9541 You are welcome dearest 🌹🌷.I am Christian from the States.You?
I certainly agree. I’m a narc survivor and I saw the same reaction play back-and-forth over and over! I thought I was losing my mind! I have learned so much from you and appreciate your work so much! You have no idea to the reality Of you helping us survive and get well mentally! Thank you for your hard work!❤
An absolute treat to listen to this video, Dr. Ramani. Married to an extremely malignant covert narc, this attachment theory greatly explains his erratic push pull behavior and the unavailable caregivers his parents have been( in his words once). My only goal now is to raise healthy children by being a healthy adult and this content immensely helps. Thank you so so much!💛
Wow, a malignant covert narcissist! He must be really hard to deal with. My heart goes out to you! Mine was not malignant, & we were ‘together’ only 3 1/2 yrs, but he really played a number on my psyche. I didn’t know about toxic narcissism at that time, but I knew enough about mental health in general to know that this was NOT a healthy relationship. I remember thinking, “If he’s treating me like this now & we are still in the dating phase, I can’t imagine what horrors might occur within marriage!” Oddly enough, HE broke it off with me. I think I ‘frustrated’ him; I was “a nut too hard to crack”.
@@MariaCeaMIca thank you so much. You are very blessed that you got away:) Love and light to you🌟
I fostered two children, for five and a half years, who have multiple diagnoses, both physical and mental/emotional, including Reactive Attachment Disorder. I have now adopted them, about 15 months ago. I’m struggling with this! It’s like they don’t want to be loved...
don’t get me wrong, I didn’t think it would get better over night. I didn’t expect it to get even worse. I feel like the worst parent on earth and so inadequate!
Three broken people, one trying to keep us together and form a family and two fighting tooth and nail against everything. Though they both told the courts, GAL, CPS, their biological parents, and attorneys and the agency that did our homestudy that this is what they wanted!! Their actions and inactions, their lack of communication just exacerbates it
Bless your heart - that is so hard 💓💓
To begin with, I thought my ex Narc had an avoidant type attachment disorder. I was wrong. She was (is) a full blown Narc. She is out of my life almost 2 years now but still hoovers. I would not even give her the time of day much less a split second of my attention. I love coming back to Dr. Ramani’s videos because I learn and because those lessons are reinforced. Thank you, Dr. Ramani and all the lovely peeps who share in the comments. It’s great to not feel “alone” and confused.
Sometimes as I continue to learn about covert narcissism, I feel like I'm on the Matrix movie and have taken the red pill. My paradigm of how I see many has changed. This is a great thing, but I'm no longer the same. Upgrades! Smiles!
Dr. Ramani when you said a, "tantruming adult child" was soooo my exhusband and I was the wife who tried to be his all and everything. But of course nothing worked, I pushed for therapy and by the end I was so exhausted. I literally felt like the weight of the world lifted when we got divorced and even then he stalked me. It was horrible but your videos have helped me so much to understand what was going on in the relationship and all my relationships. Thank you.
Thank you for your guidance. Looking forward to this episode.
Thank you, Dr. Ramani. I have so many insecurities about my parenting, especially as I realize how many mistakes I made while parenting my children. It breaks my heart that I didn’t know better, and that I wish I could reparent my children now with the knowledge and tools I’ve acquired now in my later years. Too late for my children. I just pray that my heart was indeed in the right spot in those days, for my sake. But for my children’s sake, it just breaks my heart that I contributed to their pain in ways that I can’t fix now. I got better with the younger children, but my poor older children weren’t so lucky. This life is messy and I appreciate hearing the de-vilifying statements from you, because I’ve sure heard them from my oldest two children very loudly and clearly. They have been devastating to hear over and over through the last 10+ years or so - longer from my oldest child. I definitely could have done better, and I wish I would have. Thank you for your perspective. And thank you for cracking open the door of hope that maybe I am not 100% to be blamed for some of my children’s misfortune and profound sadness. Thank you. I’ll hang on to that little bit of hope. ❤️
It's easy to relate to these feelings having raised 2 sons under similar conditions. Would that I could do it over but at the time there was no one like Dr. Ramani to explain to me why things were so awry.
🤦🏾♂️
Dr.Ramani I see you reaching over a million subscribers by the end of 2022. Your knowledge & information is so helpful, and absolutely life changing. Thank you for keeping us educated on a subject that’s unfortunately not talked about as much.
I did worry about attachment with my children since I had avoident and anxious attachments to my parents individually. I know that when my youngest was a baby I was not really present due to emotional issues and we all (My two partners and our two other children) felt like we had fallen down on the job. He was about 5 when we really started to see some ill effects....we made a concerted effort to redirect our energies to supporting him and along the way our adult children were able to start healing from the issues they felt when they were children. Thank you for giving me hope that our efforts will prove to be good enough to prevent our children from suffering needlessly from their parent's emotional attachment issues. We continue to be open, available and accepting of our responsibility for thier anger, resentments and more importantly for their praise when they see the effort. I am SO glad our brains grow and change as we age...goodness knows during those dark years we dealt with our dying parents and their own issues we weren't at our best as parents. There are three of us co-parenting our three children but we still sometimes feel like we have massively screwed up! Thanks again Dr. Ramani for shining a light in such a dark room....Just last night my oldest complimented all three of her parents on how even though none of us had a real map of how to be good enough parents we still managed to surprise her on how committed we all three are to being just that: Good enough. I had to admit that these videos are my best teacher though. :)
In soviet times, there was a practice to take a baby away to a different room ascsoon as she's born for the first 7 days and bring to the mother only at feeding times. I was one of these children. Also, my mum was never emotionally available. She was preoccupied with her own life and thoughts. I was put in full time nursery as soon as she could go back to work. I developed avoidant attachment style, and once (she told me this)when she came to collect me from nursery i said to her - why did you come so soon you old ass. (:D omg) later i became invisible child. Only since the past year i learned that she is a covert narcissist and my brother from golden child grew into grandiose narc to whom i cut all contact now and don't miss a thing.
I'm parenting my baby being responsive at all times, and this aggravates my mum when she sees it, for some reason.
OMG I love what your child self said to your mom.
That sounds like such a terrible practice! I can’t believe people used to think this would be a good idea. I‘m so sorry!
Paediatricians in Germany used to allow feeding babies only at a certain schedule (every 4 hours) in between which babies were to be put down in the cradle. Back when my grandma was a baby the paediatrician would even come by her parents‘ house in the evening to check if she was in her bed. And of course then came world war 2…. I’d say I’m suffering from my grandparents’ harsh upbringing 2 generations later.
I wish you all the best in breaking the cycle!
This is so sad! In England in the 50s and 60s they told mothers to put the baby in the pram at the end of the garden for 2 hours every afternoon for fresh air and to close the doors and windows so the mother couldn't hear the baby crying for her. Eventually the baby learned there was no point in crying for care and stopped and this was considered success! Then they sent the kid to boarding school at 6 or 7 no wonder so many Brits are messed up!
push pull I have experienced many times. Its like stroking a cat wanting a pet and second later sink their fangs into your hand.
Or being attacked by a cat, and before the bandaid is out of the package it's rubbing up against your leg.
have some respect for cat's pls
@@LSMH528Hz :) true. I have more respect for cats than narcissists. :)
Just befor our break-up.
The pull in and the punishment were constant. Being accused of not helping when he needed me but no question for help was posed. When I confronted him i am being pacified / distracted with a flattering comment. Such inconsistent and crazy making interactions. And in my experience talking about what just happened only ends up into an argument or a spoilt day.
I recognize me trying to rescue him being that parent, trying to safe the relationship. It was heart breaking.
Thank you for the clearity.
Really liked the acknowledgment that codependency is based in anxious attachment whether it’s narcissistic codependency or not, but I don’t think most people catch-on to it. To be a survivor of narcissistic abuse and view perpetrators and victims in a grossly oversimplified black-and-white way is the very definition of narcissistic splitting itself… and it’s rampant.
Interesting. I always assumed most narcissists have more of an avoidant attachment style since they emotionally detach so easily once the initial thrill of the chase is over. Also because they are notorious for cheating. I can see how it may turn anxious in times when the other person may want to cut ties, but my experience with the narcissists in my life has been that, once they believe they have you in the bag, they could hardly even care to feign interest unless it's in an effort to hurt / upset you.
Grandiose narcs can be like that, but Grandiose/Vulnerable are just different modes that the narc can shift between. Everyone is different, of course, but some narcs are primarily Grandiose, some are primarily Vulnerable, and many are a blend.
I've got a narc ex who was sometimes anxiously attached, and sometimes avoidant.
Yes...I've definately seen THAT dynamic in play numerous times...very well described!
I feel avoidance is all the time, anxious is more complex. Maybe your partner get you in the pocket so they are not anxious anymore, and they can ignore you.
I feels that way, but you could feels the different.
I can’t help but think of the pregnancy and birth experience of the mother and how that plays into temperament. I had an emergency c-section and they had to begin cutting before I was numb. Once it was safe to gas me, they did so. But I can’t help but notice a kind of residual panic in that child. The children that I had calm pregnancies and normal child births are calmer. I also have a child where my pregnancy with was stressful. I notice this child is hyper sensitive.
Wow, that's so interesting!! I would love to learn more about this.
so amazing that you are aware of this....they will be ok!
I couldn’t leave the room when my daughter was a baby. Putting her is her crib at night she cried and cried for me. Leaving her at daycare at age 4 was horrible. She would hang onto my leg and not let me leave every single day for a year. As a 33 year old adult she is a grown up version of this insecure kid. I thought I was there for her. I thought I was that stable base. I raised a narcissist who lived with me to age 31. Now she’s gone and married and we are no contact. I was abused for a decade and didn’t know it. It’s heart wrenching.
Kathleen Matteo,OMG!,your story touched my heart.You deserves better 🙏
For past 1 and half year I'm reading and understanding the attachment theory. And it has now become one of the most dominant lens I view the world with.
As a psych major we definitely covered and discussed attachment theory, attachment phases by Bowlby and attachment styles by Ainsworth! I wrote a paper on attachment theories and how neglect disregulates such styles and leads to possible personality disorders! One of my many favorite topics in the class!! Thank you Dr. Ramani for more insight on such theory!
Great name LOL
What do y'all think-
I think ideally BOTH parents would be consistent and there. Because I have met a MANY men with narcicissm that had full blown stay at home moms, but father's that just were not there / absent and inconsistent. The daddy issues are REAL
Yeah my mum was 'stay at home'. Caring or nurturing may aswell be some remote Icelandic meal plan. Being 'stay at home' is literal. Not a show of care or nurturing.
The last part of this video was so important for me. I know I was a good, secure attachment for my daughter but I strongly believe she was born with narcissist tendencies. Now that may be genetic and/or epigenetic since I was raised by an authoritarian parent and a neglectful, unemotional, unattached parent. I have been in therapy a long time and have CBT and DBT skills. Every therapist we worked with gave me the same advice I was already following: good boundaries, clear rules, praising good behavior. But raising her was incredibly difficult. My ex-husband was abusive and authoritarian and I was forced to have 50-50 custody. I believe my daughter was incredibly angry at me for leaving her exposed to his abuse and took it out on me in horrendous ways. However, as her brain developed and she finally started to be willing to use skills, listen to her therapists, and take accountability for her own behaviors, she has come out the other side. I'm not sure we managed to entirely dodge the narcissist bullet (covert narcissism), we have avoided BPD. So I'm thrilled with that. She is a kind, empathetic person to most people she is around and has made enormous strides in being empathetic towards me too.
So telling me that I wasn't a bad parent that caused her narcissism is really important to me. Thank you.
The best explanation of attachment theory and how it relates narcissism. I so wish you had been my teacher when I was studying psychology. Thank you Dr. Ramani.
Great video! It is so good to hear your professional take on attachment styles. Thanks Dr. Ramani :)
13:00 I've been watching your videos for the past few months and, while a lot of content is relatable and makes sense, this really hits the nail on the head for me. Stuck in a constant hell of trying to soothe my partner while also trying to get them to notice and fix some of the glaring issues (which are often self-inflicted).
I remember near the end of our short-lived relationship they told me about some poor decision they made and were bragging about how they "got away with it". Instead of laughing and going along with it I called them out on it, and immediately they became extremely angry at me, accusing me of things that didn't happen or that just didn't make sense. Now that I can look back on it with more clarity it's interesting to see how narcissists often use projection as a last line of defense. You know you've really hit a pain point when the other person starts throwing a bunch of BS at you.
Knowledge is Power. Thank you for these educational posts. You are saving lives.
“It only takes ONE consistent parent”
THANK GOODNESS!!!🙏🏼👏🏼❤️
I try to help my son, by learning him to analyse behaviour and feelings. He’s only 3 years old, but talking about how the characters in a cartoon might feel, and why they do this and that, and talking about what is right or wrong…
Also addressing some issues.. not ever talking bad about his dad, but still addressing that his dad doesn’t always keeps his promises. Kinda like “sometimes dad has so many good ideas, but it is not possible to do/have/follow through on all of them. I understand why you’re disappointed..”
Idk if bothering 3 y/o kids with this is helping..
Thank you Dr. Ramany. I think my adult daughter is a narcissist. I’m not sure what to do anymore. I’m afraid to call or text her because I’m afraid I’m going to agitate her and make it harder for my grandsons. My daughter just turned 33, she really started to show signs(change) in 2019. Things got worse the end of 2019 when her grandmother passed away and one of her younger cousins passed away 3 days after her grandmother. She goes from wanting us( her dad and I) in her life to not wanting any contact. The last time we spoke was on my birthday last month, the conversation started off good and then she started bringing up things from the past.( only negative times/things , she never brings up anything positive) She’s always been closer to me(her dad was in the Navy and gone quite a bit) She doesn’t want anything to do with us and won’t let us see our grandson. My heart is shattered. I miss her and the kids so much. Can you touch base on having an adult narcissistic child and how to communicate with them? Thank you again, I’m so glad I found you.
Could she be depressed or have some other kind of mental illness? The fact that her behavior changed after triggering/stressful events would be more like a mental illness than narcissism.
@@joanna0988 She was changing before the the deaths in our family But, yes she got worse after. I’ve often wondered if she’s bipolar, the past couple/ few years She definitely shows signs of that which might be signs of being a narcissist also. (maybe they are similar??) I’m her mom and I’ll never give up on her. I am just praying for all of us to get through this. But, ultimately it’s all up to her. If you pray, please pray for our family. I just want our family back together ❤️
@@vanessacastellanos4514 Yes she could have a few different issues. I know my anxiety causes me to be self centered sometimes.
Seems to me the adoptee is more likely to be the anxious narcissist. I'm definitely of the aviodance narcisisst and all the adults, siblings and peers of my childhood scapegoated me. It's been a tough road to be aware of how I present to the world. I didn't have kids because I had to change me before my ignorant deviance torture a child.
I had (and continue to have) a negative form of attachment to situations or people who don’t treat me very nice. I’ve noticed it and trying to work on it. I give more than the healthy amount of chances to someone who I know won’t change. Thanks doctor.
I'm so glad you are talking how to avoid having more narcissists in this world
I had always thought the narcissists in my life were dismissive avoidant but now that your describe the traits of anxious attachment in relational styles, yes that’s exactly what I experienced. I guess it was the punitive aspect that made it seem dismissive and avoidant. Likewise heading into the discard there is a great sense of dismissiveness and rejection
My experience, having had an avoidant, raging Narcissistic mother and multiple Narcissistic girlfriends, including my last one, has been the opposite. Avoidant people don't know how to express care and empathy, receive feedback, or to self-reflect well. Stonewalling and Silent Treatment are familiar hiding places for more avoidant types. Having healthy boundaries is one thing. Avoiding intimacy or accountability is another. Insecurely attached people, yes, struggle with feeling secure, but they are more attuned to their partners, and tend to be more caring, available and kind. I really like most of your content, and your videos are helping me recover from a recent break up with someone with huge Narcissistic tendencies, more of a Covert nature. But this assessment about Narcissists being usually insecurely attached feels partly off in my experience. This said, I imagine there is a range of why people become Narcissistic.
@@Protegida444 So true❤people get mixed up because they don't know, or have read wrong info somewhere. A lot of us are empaths and just trying to provide the stability, whilst the other styles can be real a roller-coaster and can have big needs.
@Cassadams In my experience, and also from research, because I tried to understand what had happened, I've found the grandiose narc to be fearful avoidant, because they need the drama, tantrums and loud fights, and the rage fits too! The one I knew would break and throw things. King of drama, the whole building could hear him. Dismissive avoidant style, as bad as the label may sound, is actually a conflict avoidant person, in stark contrast to the fearful style. A narc will invalidate and dismiss a person simply for reason of being a narc, regardless of whatever style, because it's in their nature. Covert I've found to be anxious style, because of having feel in control. This I thought was explained so well in the video, the punishment thing, ignoring, aggression, and scorn. I used to think this person was fearful but now I'm pretty convinced he was anxious.
@@Protegida444 as a way to attempt to understand my own experience, I have read two brilliant books on Narcissism and watched some 40 to 50 online videos on the subject from people I respect, not to mention my own years of personal therapy and close examination of myself and my relationship history. I speak from my own experience, which simply differs from yours. I am not meaning to "spread hateful misinformation" as you suggest, I am naming my experience, which apparently is not the same as yours. There are many varieties of Narcissists and the people that attract them. I am also highly empathic. My childhood experience set me up to be more anxious and insecure in my attachment style, yet I am a very caring and responsive person. As I am sure you are aware, there is a wide range of categorization of Narcissists, yet they can share common traits: lack of empathy, self-involvement, a tendency to rage or close themselves off when given direct feedback, a seductive, charming and often erratic facade, punishing tendencies when they don't get what they want, and so forth. Some Narcissists are more obvious and overt than others. Some are more covert. I found your remarks to narrowly interpret what I shared. I would invite you to consider that my experience and attachment style might differ substantially from yours, and that we can both have be subjected to the harmful effects of having Narcissistic people in our lives.
@@Protegida444 , our experiences differ. I am highly informed about Narcissism, have read two books on the subject and watched some 50 or more online videos. I am also highly empathic. My childhood set me up to be insecurely attached, and I have experienced Narcissists with differing attachment tendencies, but primarily have found that they tend to be avoidant and dismissive. And reading through the comments here, I am apparently not alone. This said, I am sorry that you have also been subjected to the harmful effects of Narcissists in your life. Please keep an open mind that the experience of other victims of Narcissistic abuse might differ from your own.
Really really helpful. Narcissism runs in my family but the buck stops here. Teaching my kiddos to really value each other is helpful...and making sure they no all people are created equal and GOD IS NO RESPECTOR OF PERSONS.
So true!!! I never could make sense of how awful my partner treats me when I'm going somewhere, like to visit my family far away. He was so awful to me and it never made sense to me.
This topic reminds me of the saying, "If you love someone, set them free. If they come back they're yours; if they don't they never were."
Katharine Bono,You look stunning 🌹🌷🌷,hope you are not with a narc 😈!
Wow! That was loaded with content. There's a lot to unpack here. Thanks for a job well done!
I just learned about this in Developmental Psychology and had already made the anxious attachment style and narcissism connection when I started listening to your videos. I can definitely see it.
Dr.. Ramini, I hear you!! Loud & clear! Takes me time to process what you say & what I hear. There are times when certain information is quite scary before I get the "aha" moment. So off with the guilt baggage, I did the best I could under the circumstances. My adult kids are so different, equally lovable. Protecting myself now is my first & foremost priority. Forever so grateful for your blessed videos 🙏
I was wishing you would do a video on attachment styles. I had read about them before, but the author put an emphasis on the avoidant style as the source of narcissism, and the anxious style as a source of borderline issues. There was also the old wives tale of gender roles in their descriptions. I think he was going with narcissism as a diagnosis and not a descriptive term. Thank you for clearing it up. I had been misinforming people as the self proclaimed local expert of narcissism. Thank you for being here for us! XOXOXOXOXOXOXO
This is interesting. Thank you. I have seen the push/pull in adult relationships.
K Kryz,You look stunning 🌹🌷🌷,hope you are not with a narc 😈!
Thank you. I appreciate you so so much. It’s nice to know I’m not crazy . 💞
I could write a book about the experiences I had for over 15 months. He was also mixing drugs and liquor with his narcissism. I went into this
Friendship trying to help him, not knowing anything about narcissism or drugs! Only after he threaten to kill my granddaughter Did I finally
wake up! He even asked me if I thought he was narcissistic.
I remember hearing the term in psych 101 in college that did not study it any further. When he got in jail I looked up on the Internet thru CZcams
And found you on CZcams and started learning and that was in December 2021 and I haven’t stop learning since then! You absolutely A difference in my life!
Learned about attachment theory in maternal/newborn nursing class- but we only focused on newborns and didn’t cover how these styles can follow a person into adulthood. Could have pieced things together alot sooner had we covered that nearly ten years ago.
Same thought 💭 here…
I had a narcissistic friend whom I just cut off contact with very recently. Our sons were friends as well and would play online games together. Their friendship started off really well until the time when we started taking away my son’s computer privileges due to disciplinary issues and that meant that he didn’t have any contact with my friend’s son for a while. Well, it didn’t take long until he started messaging my husband and I everyday, asking to play with our son. On times that my son just wanted to play by himself or do other things, he would call him by Facetime, even while we were eating dinner. It became too much for us and now we realize that it’s because he turned out to be a narcissist with attachment issues. The apple did not fall far from the tree as it seems and we have completely cut off contact to save any of us the stress of having to deal with them.
My abusive narc mom clearly did not love me nor did she want me at home. She usually pretended I did not exist and gave me the silent treatment. In my 20's I saved up enough to leave home. Then my mother got enraged and told me I was "abandoning the family" and how 'selfish' I was. I knew she never wanted me at home so I was confused why she never wanted me to leave either. When I left, she told me "don't even THINK you can come back if you fall flat on your face'. I was dis-inherited.....I am an empath. I still get anxiety but never became a narc. You can't miss what you never knew, so I became self sufficient. My older sister, though, became a narc and she was always clingy to my mother. I think the child's temperament plays a role in the outcome.
Almost 40 years of the push pull. I cannot express how much I appreciate your informational videos. They shed so much light on my upbringing and adult life. Why I chose who I chose to marry and what the result of that has been. I'd send a thank you note if I could!! I suppose a comment will have to do. Thank you.
Oh, yes! Thank you for mentioning the role genetics could be playing in Narcissism. Looking at my family dynamics over 3 generations I feel certain there must be some kind of genetic predisposition that determines who develops NPD. On Instagram, I used to follow a psychiatrist that dealt with Narcissism. I got talking with another follower about our families and how there must be some genetic element. The psychiatrist interrupted to say that we were wrong. When the other follower and I continued our conversation about our families and that we still think there must be some genetic aspect the psychiatrist blocked me!
I'm confused now. I always thought I was anxiously attached. But I have never had problems with Hellos or Goodbyes etc. If avoidant attachment means not really caring about close relationships, then that doesn't fit either. I guess I have some research on attachment theory to do. Very interesting video though
I'm confused too. The video should probably clarify that not everyone with anxious attachment has narcissism. There's also other experts saying the dismissive avoidant is more prevalent in narcissists. I think it would be helpful to mention that there are differences of opinion in the field in these videos if they do exist. Dr. Ramani is a great go to expert on this stuff, but if there are other psychologists who have a differing view than her I think it would be helpful to mention that. I would want to know what kind of disagreements are ongoing in the field on narcissism. If there's a variety of views, I would like to know all of them.
@@rypoelk997 I thought the avoidant attachment style was more prevalent in narcissists, too.
Of course Dr Ramani highlighted the behaviors that are common in both anxiously attached and narcissists. It wasn't an extensive description of anxious attachment. I feel better now 🤣. Thought I could be a narcissist for a minute or two(again). 😆
@@Kryptonite13 She didn't say ALL narcs have this. Not what I heard. NO probs your end.
@@rantersparadise Yes, you are right.
Yeah, I'm unconvinced. The narcissists I've known are avoidant. That doesn't mean they're not anxious inside, it's more a behaviour.
Omg, this was the most spot on segment I have seen so far that describes my kids’ father. It gets right to the worst behavior and the way it triggers my mothering instinct. I just didn’t realize it was happening between myself and the sig. others in my life. They need to teach psychology in high school. I wish I could have known before. Hopefully my children can be more aware and avoid some of my mistakes. And again, thank goodness that it only takes one secure parent to stabilize the little ones for life. Imagine if it took two or more. We’d all be extinct probably. Ramani is so correct in her vision of a world where the majority of people had two or more safe and loving parents. We’d be so much further ahead.
What you are talking about is a result of the times we live in and has been that way for the last couple of hundred years because of the industrial revolution, before that a communities existed similar to the communes as a large family.