WHO IS JUNE EGBERT?
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- čas přidán 10. 08. 2020
- A year after the headcanon became real, here's an essay about everyone's favorite Egbert.
TRANS RIGHTS.
More Essays: • Essays
JUNE ARTISTS:
/ conksuckgucci
/ trickstercandy
/ pireight1
/ nueclear333
THE MUSIC:
• Homestuck Music (Funk ... - Zábava
![Slurs in Homestuck [Funk McLovin]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/2UPpYfJmnTU/mqdefault.jpg)
![Slurs in Homestuck [Funk McLovin]](/img/tr.png)
![What’s Dirk’s Deal? [Homestuck Essay]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/QCrz7TV4Oek/mqdefault.jpg)
nothing and all is canon on homestuck
@Huxley Gus nah dude that is fucking scam looks weird like from 1000 miles away bruhh ngl kinda sus
@Josiah Rylan lmao what
paradox space
Didn't andrew hussie say that all headcanons were canon???
All is canon in home and stuck
I was in a discord recently where people said John and June in reference to the same character and no one got heated or tried to correct anyone. That's nice. How it should be
That's... Not a cropped top. That's a godtier hoodie sized for a 14 year old boy, on a 36 year old man.
fair but . repurposing exists
are people forgetting that John's "crop top" is just him wearing clothes the same size like when he was a teenager and he's now an adult in his late 30s (since he wasn't wearing his god tier suit for many years the magic fitting didn't work i guess??)
i like to think the god tier clothes fitting magic not working is more symbolic of like john/junes mental state rather thanthe magic actually just like wearing off due to time or something because i thibk thats sorta lame
@@asher3311 could also be a reference to the uncanonicity of the candy timeline
@@asher3311 would it mean that like, when egbert completes the character arc it would stop being too small?
I don't personally like June Egbert, but people arguing whether she's canon or not is honestly pointless. Homestuck is built off multiple timelines, anything can happen
Most people who rabidly defend June have either A) never read the comic, and usually don’t intend to. (This is the one I see a lot.) or B) got into the comic *because* of June, and haven’t reached the fucky time shenanigans yet. Or C) are very young and trans themselves, and since they’re young, and also of a marginalized group. They see everything as a personal attack on their character and identity.
I never see this happen with people who have actually read the comic. Every time I’ve seen one that has read the comic, they always say John/June is fine, they can coexist.
@@temerianlillies they literally can't though. It's transphobic as HELL to imply that someone can be trans in one universe and not in another. That's implying it's a choice, it's not. Sincerely, a trans man who knows the story inside and out and is on his third reread.
@@ShakedownDreams and as a trans woman who knows this story inside out and has read it 7 times, yes they can. in a comic about fucky time shit where any wacky, zany thing can happen with little or no continuity, yes they can. it's not a big deal. in fact, i find it transphobic how june even came to be canon and the reaction from the team since implies heavily that it *was* a choice for john (let alone roxy, where they really said "yeah it's a choice :)".) but they can literally exist together. are you gonna call every person who see's john as a trans-man cuz it makes them feel good as trans-men themselves transphobic? i know you're not going to do that, so why are we doing that with june?
also we're calling alternate selves as meaning trans is a choice now? that's new. cuz last i remember skaia makes plans for all it's players from any universe and timeline, meaning, there is a universe where john is june whether as a trans-woman or a cis woman. it's not transphobic, and certainly doesn't imply or say being trans is a choice. if you want the actual trans character that the team said was a choice, look at roxy. literally made him trans-masc nb in one timeline, then in the other said "well roxy had a child, so her dysphoria and gender feelings don't exist anymore, so she didn't make that choice." that's the real transphobia here.
@@temerianlillies I am currently too tired to argue this, so I'm simply going to disagree. It makes me VERY uncomfortable to think that in any way an LGBT character could have an alternate universe where they..aren't? And yes. I know June didn't get a chance to be seen in canon, but like..she is? At least with my understanding of how things went down. June has always been a HUGE comfort character for me. It just feels gross and weird to claim that a trans character can totally not be trans because time shenanigans. Sorry I'm not up for the argument tonight.
@@ShakedownDreams keep that energy with roxy then. they did it with him.
"why are people so incistent in it's canonical Nature? to answer that question i'll have to get Into Something that's a little less simple...
First let's Talk about
Toblerone"
Didn't expect that coming
I've always wondered where June came from since I saw her a lot in my IG explore page. I didnt want to ask or look her up cause I know I wouldnt bother with her much (I havent bothered with homestuck at all since it ended nor when HS2 started). So i'm thankful that today, this video appeared on my recommended.
I see that every character version anyone makes (like MtF Roxy, POC versions, very tiny trolls, giant trolls, etc) is basically canon since there is a shit ton of timelines in homestuck (and who the hell knows what Hussie is up to). Also, the characters are in a style where they dont have a certain race or looks (except for the trolls) so ofc...every fanart would be canon since timelines and shit.
From what i gathered. June IS canon, due to some toblerone wish. However.... Its.... In one timeline the character is DEAD. And the other is alive and hasnt been given much merit. Crop tops are mens fasion too mind you. Like... For now it feels like bait. Teasing with no true merit. An empty wish thats like yeah its canon but never properly delivered. Like a father walking out the door- he pauses and turns to you, his adoring, sweet, innocent summer child. You ask him,
"father, when will you return with the milk and cigars?"
He smiles a warm, fatherly smile. "Soon he promises."
Two years later, the now two years older the youth that is you still holds on to memory, knowing not when he will return but that he WILL return.
Alas, he never does return, sweet, innocent summer child. Alas he never does.
yes
Poetry
The fact that Hs^2 is ending soon due to backlash. This may be the case? Wow. By lil cals velvety puppet ass. Just eowm
@@enderwalkgang I am not familiar with said backlash. Would thou enlighten my ears upon the topic?
@@ampersandKnuckles people saying its shit. Did the characters dirty, is written as if they dont actually know homestuck that well, etc. Etc. Also the whole Kate situation. Anf the fact theres incest in the comic. And a pedophilic relationship (Meenah and Vriska) though it ended it still happened
I have to be honest here. I love June Egbert and I would love that to be canon. However, in the metaphorical situation in which it never gets put in the comics, I would say that this is less like JK Rowling and her Dumbledore was always gay and more like Andrew Hussie's tweet that said all ships were canon. Like- I don't know.... He has plently of gay ships and trans characters and he never said "oh yeah the whole time it was canon i just didnt ever put it in" he just made some off hand comment about it being a thing? Like, he didnt claim it was canon the whole time, he just made it canon? Its not what JK Rowling did. I dunno I feel like its dumb to compare what JKR did to what Andrew Hussie did there.
Edit: Feel free to share your view if you disagree! I would like to hear your opinion!
I feel this it is not a retcon it's a author saying your headcanon I like it you get my stamp of approval
in some sense i agree, but he never actually did make it canon. he SAID it was canon, but june never appeared in any official What Pumpkin story
@@OrangeColt yeah, and its not a small headcannon, so yeah. The "i like your headcannon and im the creator of the proyect you have a headcannon of" should only be used to small headcannons or things that arent as important as june egbert
The point of the comparison is that it reflects a similar sort of baiting. In both cases, the author tweeted that LGBTQ character was made canon, and then after making said Tweet, never made any indication of that in ensuing content. It's giving fans hope where they didn't intend to follow through, and in the case of Homestuck, created a fandom war where people considered and accused other fans of being transphobic if they drew John, referenced the idea of him, or didn't consider June canon.
There were a lot of hints in the books that Dumbledore and Grindelwald had been involved romantically though... But hints aren't the same as canon, I guess
So anyways stan june and john because they both are perfect
The main reason for June is making the Condencense battle in [S] Collide retroactively the "designated chick fight".
Well I mean technically anything can happen in the timelines. So June is technically real.
I agree with you, but we can say anything using this statement. Will be June canon regarding HS^2... Who knows?
@@kokokorij9 there is also the arguement that john\june is not ready to come out and maybe thats why we dont see any june in cannon.
and its canon in a
✨dave sprite - crow AU✨
you gotta read it
basicly dave sprite survived by overcoming his angst and got body n legs by ---
and becouse of that in timeline so many survived what it wasnt alpha timeline, but it wasnt doomed one either. powerfull caliopy can describe timeline stuff better
and after the retcon timeline couldnt really kill john and someone else from the cast survived and the timeline made them trans cause it has a funny way dealing with doubles
read it please^^
I’m going to be honest, I really don’t see June ‘foreshadowing’ in HS. It just looks like people looking too hard into tiny details because they want John to be trans too
It isn't really foreshadowing, per se. I doubt Hussie ever really intended her to be read as a trans woman, it's more so people seeing bits and pieces of things that can be interpreted as, for the lack of a better term, gendery lol. Either way June is still canon like everything else you can come up in regards to HS.
Yeah that’s cos there’s no foreshadowing. John wasn’t written as a trans character, Hussie just said June is canon after Homestuck finished. People can interpret things in the story as pointing to June being trans and that’s perfectly fine! John and June can coexist.
Ah, well you see, they're much more apparent if you yourself are a transfem nerd who loves old shitty media & computers or whatever. In that case it's, like, the whole comic. Hope this helps.
@@PilkScientist Let's not give Hussie credit for writing a trans character he didn't write. Members of the LGBTQ like me and others shouldn't be settling for representation that hasn't been explicitly written. We're done dealing with Disney giving us queer coded villains and background gays dancing together, I want the real sh*t.
But if people want to headcanon her, I see absolutely nothing wrong with that. There's almost always a way something can be read as queer, and that's something I love about literary analysis.
I personally don't see John as being trans, but hussie already declared all headcanon canon so...
Oh and I don't particularly like the route Homestuck 2 is following, but hey even the original had some dull parts to it so maybe it'll get better???
june is growing on me the longer i am in this fandom. i think shes cute
i hate when characters in media have names similar to their possible deadname, like in this case it would be june/john, bc thats typically not how trans ppl choose their name. slight nitpick, but meh.
I mean, I guess in this case that's how June chose her new name.
Who knows, maybe the month of June holds some symbolic value to her or something.
i mean, idk. i chose my name to be kind of similar to my ogname just bc it was an easier change, and i did like my old name .
That's what i did tbh
That’s how my friend chose their name
to be fair, could've been worse! that name debate mentioned prior happened because people initially wanted to call her "joan" egbert, a literal letter's difference. part of the reason it's so similar though is because of homestuck's thematics with regards to the kids' given names all being four letters long. there's not a lot of "j" names out there that fit that bill. "joey" and "jane" (the 'feminine' equivalent to "john") are already existing characters in the HS universe. june just sounded right, especially when you take into account the pesterlog with vriska and the month of june being LGBT pride month!
i am just happily waiting for some canon content of june
So June is trans John. Got it. I've heard people call John June in normal context and was so confused. Also, there are so many names that start with "J" in Homestuck that it's easy to get mixed up.
I’m relatively new to the fandom so this was really informative!! I don’t personally have any strong opinions on June but I think that the headcanon does have merit.
I just say Egbert to avoid argument and most people go with it
you had so much hope, jojo.. and now hs2 is dead without any june egbert :(
:'(
It’s not quite dead, it’s just going to be a very long time until we see results
Hussie would probably throw something like "it actually happened in another universe/dimension, we just didn't show it"
He's the type of guy that made all the fantrolls canon, showed two of them in the comic because they donated to him and then killed them in the next page basically because "well, you donated to make them appear in the comic, you never said anything about them surviving more than one page"
I could see him showing june in ONE page of a comic and then in the next page change to whatever other thing was happening at the moment while saying "ok, enough of that character, let's go back to the relevant stuff"
He’s a troll, the homestuck ^2 and the toblerones existed as a massive middle finger to everyone
June Egbert is great but I've always preferred the trans girl roxy hc (it was really cool before the epilogues just... Happened)
Same (u.u
same... trans mtf roxy was great
* we can have both! :B
Homestuck is all about multiple universes and timelines so anything is canon!
I actually liked Roxy's story in the epilogues, but I understand why transfem Roxy is an important headcanon to a lot of fans. I'm a trans girl myself, for the record, but I just relate more to narratives where trans characters take time to figure their identities out, rather than ones where they knew who they were since before the start of the story.
I want ppl to know hussie has no control of HS 2, he merely gave the basis and starting point of the plot and let a group of creative fans start the comic independently without hussies help.
What if Hussie dunks on all of us and makes non-binary John canon?
No matter what John's gender is, I'll still love him.
John is amazing either way.
What if..all of them. Pangender/Genderfluid John/June.
*The camera pans over to me clapping enthusiastically from my seat on a throne. I am crying* AMAZING ESSAY JUNE EGBERT IS AMAZING AND I LOVE THIS AND HER SO MUCH!!! YOU CONTINUE TO MAKE AMAZING CONTENT AND I SIMPLY ADORE ALL OF IT!!!!
Let's just make a universe where everything is gay and trans. We're doing it, we're making it happen. I warned you bro, I warned you about the fans!
I first started reading Homestuck, I knew the name 'June' but assumed that it was the name of John's alpha kid version (I saw a picture of Jane at some point). Imagine my surprise when her name was Jane and not June
June comes after May.
i like june just cause i got too used to her and now john is weird. unless were shipping john and dave then it must be gay
i just like the concept i guess .also girls
Personally I like genderfluid John&June :D best of both worlds babyyyyy
If you like June that’s great you do that :D
If you like John that’s great you do that :D
If you like both that’s great you do that :D
But be nice and don’t yell at people if they don’t share the same opinion
Real!!!
Now dont get me wrong i dont dislike june egbert and im not aganst trans rights or anything like that but... *who cares??????* i could really care less if ppl thing john is bi or not im just going with what ive read and ive read is "john egbert" but again i dont care if you're into it im just not going to do it. (im a new reader so maybe my perspective is skewed idk) but anyways good video
Edit: i should probably say that this could change if there's some cannon june content
I kinda agree don’t get wrong if that what the writer want then okay but just like with roxy I was like oh okay cool
thank you for explaining this!!
*dramatic tone* we all did our best britney spears impression, and yet, what pumpkin did not deliver, they just kept writing dumb shit about gamzee TOTALLY being dead
"hello! thanks for coming out"
It’s been nearly 4 years since this video and June is still nowhere to be seen in any official context. I have doubts that Toblerone wish will ever be fulfilled.
not to be mean. but i don't like trace as a writer that much, he pushes alot of non-cannon things jsut because he wants it to be true dsispite alot of peoples disaproval. it kinda bugs me =[
(this is not about the trans thing, this is in general. i support trans)
(edit) P.S. i think June Egbert is cool.
(edit again) im haft way through the vid and now im legit excited to see if homestuck 2 dose anything with June Egbert
I can’t help but feel like Hussie dubiously canonized June Egbert with little consideration towards how much she would mean to so many people. Hussie has given nonchalant canon to ideas/content from fans before, but this feels very different. It’s not just some whacky factoid or fan troll dying after one panel. This is about people trying to embrace meaningful representation. Maybe the writers of HS^2 have plans for June after the overwhelming discussion surrounding her, but I sincerely doubt Hussie accepted June as canon with the serious intention to include her into homestuck. Especially since he wasn’t as involved with the writing of current homestuck media during the toblerone discovery like he used to be (and even less so now). Just like much of the negative harassment Hussie throws onto the modern day writers of Homestuck with his behavior, he is leaving them to fend for themselves from the community in-fighting by canonizing a monumental aspect of the main character of the original web series without proper buildup and content.
Honestly i think June/John thing is sorta cool but I also love the trans Roxy thing as well so... I'm opened arms to all!
iv'e never read homestuck but here i am wacthing this
I’m guessing you read it now? (Based on ur pfp)
@@g4llows_Calibrat0r yes
A non existence character, what do you mean?
Ohh, all this time I thought she was made canon in HS2! (or as canon as that can get)
Hi. Hello. I love both John Egbert and June Egbert and I will love and support them either way.
the Heir
the Legend
the 2 cards FIFO sylladex genius
trans gender :B
* HEHHEHEHE YESS
i adore this fandom with every speck of skin and dust on my body
I feel like I should've been here sooner.
I.
Forgot my name was not June on her.
(It's my real name though. I am the canon Trans June)
I honestly personally like June and John. Frick it, bigender June/John that goes by she/her and he/him and likes both June and John as a name.
I'm pretty sure my friend still has that toblerone they found to make that happen
That is actually really cool
My headcanon is that sometimes John becomes trans for the heck of it.
there are millions upon millions of alternate timelines in homestuck so ig she could be canon somewhere. i honestly just like egbert no matter what the writers will do with their gender bc theyre pog
AHHHHHHHHHHH. hi june…
Heads or scratch
Shall it be incorporated into the fanfic?
Shall it not?
🎭
I think that people should be civil when it comes to june and john, people can like what version they want too and thats fine but fights shouldn't start over it, both are good and we should respect that. you like june, good for you! you like john, also good! just don't start flame wars over it
Trans rights!
"Im not gay"
1:21 Can someone who has the link to this tweet please share it with me?
i've always been interested in how june came to be. this was super informative, ty :]
I have a question, how do ppl feel about characters having different gender identities in the two epilogues? Like cis mom Roxy in candy vs nonbinary Roxy in meat, or mustachioed dad John in candy vs possibly June in meat. Does having them exist as both at the same time diminish the inclusion, or does it just show that their are multiple paths their identities could develop? I’ve always thought the point of the epilogues branching is so you can have your cake and eat it too in terms of ships and characters and stuff, but I think it’s especially interesting when applied to Roxy and June.
Also it’s been a couple years since I read the epilogues, so apologies if I got some of the details wrong
There is also HS^2 though, in there meat roxy is trans and john is still dead meanwhile in candy there could be june if hs2 ever continues based on last pages where roxy mentioned the topic of gender to john but both of them just decided to talk about it later, and then the comic had gone into hibernation.
dave. im not homosexual
You know that sexuality and gender are two different things right?
@@dangernoodlegrewlegs5929 it's a quotation. John never said something like "dave, i have default gender identity"
@@grzegorzbrzeczyszczykiewic199 no gender identity is default
@@dangernoodlegrewlegs5929yeah whatever
@@dangernoodlegrewlegs5929 bro didn’t read the comic
i think that trans june is definitely planned to be cannon. i mean if you look at the current Homestuck 2 and i think that we should wait to see what happens with it.
i mean if you want to hc it,, and what she looks like/is named that's fine but you don't need to push it so hard if for the plain reason is coming out is different for everyone. like not every trans person changes their name. at this point, Roxy hasn't. and maybe her presentation won't be what you assume it'd look like
I'd say that we should wait and see.
Amen to that.
i second
Me too :D
TRANGENER HOMESTUCK CHAOS
IM THE ULTIMATE TRANSEGENER
I love her
Sorry it him
@@joellejostar1545 ShUt.
@@joellejostar1545 nah she she
I mean given how long in advance some things are written, I wouldn’t be surprised if it just “showed up.” In HS^2, if it ever gets finished in the first place.
hell yeah egberted june B) epic videooo
So good PFP
This raises a new, interesting question on the nature of alternate selves, how they interact and become the ultimate self.
If there are Heirs of Breath that are trans across paradox space, does that mean that all of them are trans or is it possible that some of them are cis? Is it possible that some Junes and Johns were born with XX chromossomes? What would that mean for the ultimate selves if some of your alternates are male and female, trans and cis and all of them are valid? Will the ultimate self's gender be the most proeminent one across all timelines or are they simply going to become gender-fluid/non-binary?
june she is my wife :)
in short, trans rights!
ALso im loearing moreand more with each one of these
I would enjoy June if I could see her in the comic. The problem is John’s entire character seems to be having their head wrapped up in the clouds, and dodging any attempts to introspect. Because of that, we have a Shrodinger’s Trans situation.
Personally, I enjoy June in the “Crow Strider AU”, a fan work that describes what would happen if Davesprite God-Teired and was like Jade, human with a little extra. Spoilers for that fan work-
In the fan-work, there are multiple changes from the original. One of these changes is that during the Retcon, when John’s planet explodes, Davesprite and John actually escape, but John is severely injured.
Because of that, John and Jade begin to introspect a lot more. John from his near-death experience and Jade through her own trauma from thinking her friends just died.
Eventually, that introspection comes to a head when John and Jade are taking stuff out of Jade’s house, and John jokingly tries on some of Jade’s clothes, and Jade does the same in retaliation for John.
…
This awakens them to realizing that they are trans, and they go by June and Josh from then on.
They use their “Change Aspect” powers to physically change their bodies, once they fully understood themselves.
But then, JuJu-Touching John and GameOver Jade actually get to MEET June and Josh, and they have this conversation with the SEVERAL versions of Dave, which, one of them is renamed Crow, but, he’s still a time-bound, so, yeah-
They talk about which of the Heirs of Breath and Witches of Space are “more real”, and the Dave’s come to a conclusion that they are both equally real. That when Typheous was trying to get rid of John, and perhaps was GOING to try and get rid of Jade this time, his action DID “kill” John and Jade, because you can’t have two of the same person in a timeline.
It’s like the Ship of Theseus, a paradox/riddle the asks that if you take apart a ship board by board, and then use the old boards to make another ship, which is the REAL ship..? Which, the Fan-Work says… “does it matter?” And I LOVE that.
The reason that the fan work gives for why June/Josh transitioned and John/Jade did not is a bit complicated, but to summarize, the timeline they are in needed to fix itself. To do so, it had to borrow some elements from other doomed timelines, like an organ doner. June and Josh in the Retconned Timeline were ALWAYS trans, even though the John and Jade in the Game Over timeline were not. Because time is weird like that- trust me, the AU creates a lot of fan Canon, but it’s an AMAZING read, and it’s how I choose to see June Egbert.
Just- a splinter from the Ultimate Self. Through different experiences, different feelings, just little things, the Heir of Breath can be either John or June, and who we follow is simply what we see in the timeline we are watching.
Thank you for explaining this. It was fine when June started appearing in my fics I did understand what was going on and there is enough source material for it to be plausible. However, there was a distinct sense of missing some source prompt going on and I wasn't sure if it was just a unwritten author head-canon or some other famous work that had gained near canon status in the fandom.
Not seen however is my own followup head-canon sadly. I really like the symmetry of the human Homestuck cast so to me if John has good OG canon story justification to be a Tans-woman that Jane also has equal justification to be a Trans-man.
june is gay month!
Hot take: John is genderfluid and she has two first names 8ecause having one is for losers. There, now everyone can 8e happy!
June was a stupid joke in a Tweet from Hussie that in the end the whole community took it literally and ended up ruining John's image, as John has always said that he likes women and that he is heterosexual lmao
what does being a heterosexual have to do with being trans
is it a stretch to say that people say things very confidently while not knowing of a revelation coming later on that will contradict said things in retrospect?
Lesbian June
People can change ! Especially after john went through all the shit he went through. John might not have been educated in knowing what being transgender is, or what its like, hell he might not even known it was a possibility! He did know roxy, and when they came out that could have been his first encounter with the concept of transgender.
@@ImposterTheory Unfortunately, the only living John right now has not met that Roxy, so none of that has been broached quite yet.
Did the epilogue or ^2 have them transition in to june yet or did they time skip to it
Ok but hear me out shouldn't it be Joan Egbert? It's literally a letter difference from John.
Idk June is like more popular
Homestuck has a major problem with characters having similar names already. (I confuse Dave and Dirk Strider all the time.) June is already pretty similar, and I think Joan would be really annoying to remember and not trip up on.
Honestly they should've just gone full boar with June in HS^2, having John openly questioning his gender identity and starting to wear makeup and wear women's clothing (which would basically just entail the god tier pajamas turning from pants into a skirt). These tiny breadcrumbs like rose painting his nails in Pesterquest or wearing a crop top (and by crop top I mean his regular shirt is 2 pixels shorter) just doesn't cut it, it neither appeals to the people who want June to be cannon nor does it keep John as cis to appeal to the people who don't care for the headcannon.
And yes I refer to him as him and as John because as of now no one in anything official has referred to the character as she or as June, and as far as I'm concerned they aren't actually trans yet. If/when it becomes official I'll refer to the character as June.
Obviously you shouldn't misgender or deadname real people and trans rights.
I'm really looking forward to the release of the completed hs^2 for the resolution on ah this. yeah the stuff in what's currently there is slim but like... Roxy outright broached the topic and John definitely reacted in a way that reads to me, A Confirmed Tran, as someone still in denial but maybe on the cusp of a revelation. There's a lot of treating hs2 in its current form as "finished" but it... ISN'T. it definitely felt to me like the pitch was thrown and we're still waiting for the swing.
0:09 got it, goodbye
😕😕😕
Gamer moment 🤯🤯🤯🤯