Chassis Hardware
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- čas přidán 14. 07. 2021
- Did you know that something as simple as shoulder length on a bolt can mean the difference between a race car that works and one that doesn’t?
Having the right fasteners and hardware in the correct places on your chassis is crucial. Fasteners play a major role in the longevity and consistency of your race car and parts.
Even those with years of experience may pick up a tip or two during this in-depth video where Tim examines commonly available fasteners and those designed around specific applications.
After looking at the different types of hardware, Tim explains which fasteners should be used in specific locations on your race car and why. The “why” here is extremely interesting.
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The information contained in this video is based on the opinion of Tim McAmis and his 30+ years in the motorsport and manufacturing industries. Any action you take based upon the content provided shall be done at your own risk. TMRC and its affiliates are not liable for any losses and/or damages in connection with the use of this information. - Auta a dopravní prostředky
I absolutely love seeing someone who talks about the real details that make the difference. No one thinks about the couple thousandths here and there that add up to a half inch of slop and make that $100,000 race car or even just a basic restoration car feel like garbage. Good hardware, electrical connections, and plumbing make all the difference, but these cars wanna skimp on all three of these parts of a car.
amen!
Another subject that needs to be covered is re torquing after the first runs are laid down. Heat cycles and such. Thanks for all the effort making safer race cars.
Heh , I like showing buddies what happens when you go back to the first bolt on stage one of torquing an assembly and it moves.
Run the stage again till you stop getting movement.
Kinda surprising how much parts move around.
Some of the best content on YT. Tim is such a straight shooter its refreshing.
And anyone who says diffrent,Tim will hit them in the face with a peice of pipe!
Proper fastener usage is not something most racers know well unless they were military or aviation mechanics. Thanks for posting this.
We come around because you still talk like a person, not just a sales asshat. Refreshing as hell, even when its stuff I knew. Some kits I see cheap out with smooth inserts over the threads that fail and shimmy. Note to garage racers: If your bolt-shortening cnc is a grinder, you can't let the bolt get hot or it will lose temper; keep a water bucket handy and dunk often.Thanks for the info Tim.
A hot bolt loses it's heat treat, not it's temper. Temper is what keeps heat strengthened bolts from shattering, the heat treat is what makes them hard and strong. Basically a hot bolt will be annealed.
@@anonymic79 temper means hardness…..
I've been an aircraft mechanic in the airforce and built a few cars (nothing nearly as fast as tim) and there is a ton of good information in this video. The only things I would add is if you are using self locking nuts (distorted thread or nylock) they have a limited number of uses, usually 2-3 times before they lose a significant amount of locking foce and should be replaced. I would also disagree with Tim when he says to machine down hardware so as not to show too much thread. If you have only one thread showing on a nylock nut, that nut only needs to back off 2 threads before there is no more locking foce and it will fall off. Airforce technical orders require 2 threads showing outside of every nut. I will always use as much thread as practical because id rather have a loose captured bolt than a bolt with no nut at the end liable to fall out at anytime.
I agree 👍, FRA requires 3 threads be exposed.
Bolts go in from the top and tighten the nut not the bolt.
He said 1-2 threads, not one
@@taylorpratt6287 I'm aware, but 1 thread is not enough. I'm not sure why someone would go through the trouble of machining a bolt down if it removes a significant amount of safety factor from the assembly. Personally I believe safty>performance>appearance.
@@alexligenza7328 on a fastener that you can check for tight after 10 seconds of use flush is sufficient. If you plan on running the whole season without doing maintenance you should probably go ahead and use loctite and safety wire.
Wright tools makes all their tools in Barberton Ohio. Their stuff is in the Snap On realm for quality but it is much more affordable. I like their stuff and it's easier to get than the box trucks.
Another big difference in how fasteners are made is how the thread is generated.
Cut threads or Rolled threads.
Generic stuff may have cut threads, so when they make the thread they remove metal in the process. This is weaker because you have cut through the grain of the metal.
The AN, NAS, and MS fasteners have rolled threads. The threads are generated by rolling the bolt blank between dies that have the thread form. The bolt metal is squeezed and forced into the correct shape.
The result is the grain then follows the peaks and valleys of the thread. This is much stronger and much less likely to break.
So.. I worked at 4 Chassis Shops over the years.. Two shops built only T/F Dragsters and Fuel Funny Cars. One was A Super Famous Super Comp Dragster Shop.. The Forth was A Very Famous Shop that built PRO STOCK and PRO MOD Cars.. Really Enjoyed this video.. I have made Many Titanium Bolts, Regular and Heavy Washers & The Nuts. All out of Titanium. Plus made Many Titanium Bungs for Wheelie Bars and Front A Arms.. I Always liked making Cool Parrts.. Worked as a Aviation Machinist in Seattle for Boeng too. Then a AVIONICS Machinist.. So that was 4 1/2 Decades of Machining... Really Love All of Tim's Videos. He is So Spot On!! >> Builds Awesome Cars Too..!!!!
I've always heard great things about Mr. McAmis but never encountered him or seen anything he'd done like this before. This is pure gold, real talk, no bullshit just the facts.
Very good video.
-AN is ARMY/NAVY.
We adopted that as our military spec years ago.
Copied from the British who use BSW (British Standard Whitworth) as their military spec.
I’ve been an automotive engineer for 32 years now and it’s a bit misleading to just toss Grade 5 and Grade 8. They simply have to choose the correct shoulder length. They come in different shoulder lengths if you choose a distributor that offers the different options.
The “thin” lock nuts are simply “Jam” style nuts and although they look less bulky then a full length Nyloc…they have significantly less grip strength. Depending on pitch…some diameters have as little as 2-2.5 turns of thread inside the nut.
Just pointing out a few facts.
I mean if guys are watching this for info…some vital information was overlooked or missed.
Again…very well done video.
Great advise. A video on when safety wire should be used might be a good subject for another vid.
Hit 'em in the face with a piece of tubing Lmaooooo
Love it Tim!
That goes for putting a crescent wrench on good machined fasteners too.
I was taught the faster you go the higher quality parts are required, including hardware.
I’ve been a mechanic for 45 years and I have yet to see a quality made China tool
Their tempering sucks, even if they get the standard/metric conversions right at their plants before kicking it out the door. I don't even bother. I made that decision over a decade ago after buying some cobalt drill bits from what used to be a reliably American source that I guess added to their product line with junk from China they slapped their brand on and foisted upon the big box stores. They were hardened alright... but through and through, and as such were very brittle. They broke so fast, I didn't get 3 months out of the set. Normally, I would abuse a set for a year.
Chyna sucks.
COVID
@@TheCyberMantis china #1 baby
@@kheckmanakabeast #1 at being a piece of crap.
As a student of Carrol Smith of many years ago I appreciate your sharing of this knowledge and find your "tone" refreshing 👍
first of all I'd like to say how much I learn watching your videos even though I no longer race I still enjoy learning something new all the time , but right now I do have a slight problem with this video , and it absolutely does make a lot of sense using the proper bolts in the proper applications , but what you fail to tell everyone is that it's almost impossible to purchase these particular bolts online , I am building an old-school gas with the old-style latter bars so I decided to go online and purchase some of these bolts to use the proper ones in my application , so I went online and all I could find is that you have to know part numbers for these particular bolts they do not show sizes or tell you sizes all I could find the matter who I searched they go by part numbers which makes it almost impossible to purchase any of these bolts or knots that you are talking about , but I do have a suggestion if you can find a way to make it easier for someone to purchase these bolts or to put out a chart of different sizes and with the part numbers are ? I gave the example what I'm looking for I need 4 - 4/3 inch by two 1/2 inches long in the grip would have to be about 1 5/8 , these are just four bolts that I was before and there's no way I can find them or understand how to purchase them online because everything goes by part numbers and they do not give your prices ? But I do agree with what you're saying and understand exactly what we're coming from is just for an average person such as myself I have no choice used bolts that you showed in the beginning of the that would have to be purchased from Home Depot or Ace Hardware but thank you so much for taking the time and doing these videos because like I said I no longer race because I am 68 years old but I enjoy these videos tremendously because of what I learn
Good information. I suggest adding information about the radius under the bolt head and the radiused ID washers that are needed. Carol Smith books are also helpful.
Man you do some great videos I love how you’re always putting the USA made products first! Your customer service is excellent and you guys are always willing to help! Can you guys do a video on repairing a chassis?
I’ve worked on high power dirt cars, using titanium bolts milled to length and center drilled for weight savings. Some of those guys are borderline crazy about weight!
Hi Tim,
Thanks for spelling out a lot about some things that most of us don’t normally consider. Obviously your way is “the right way” and I appreciate the information. .
Preamble: I noticed that you don’t talk about (or probably use) lock washers. Question:
Is it bad form to use split lock washers or star washers?
I’m not a big fan of nylock nuts, because they wear out very quickly. You need to replace them often. (I’m my opinion)
As a former dealership or Journeyman Certified Repair Technician, I believe in using the right parts for the job. It is a lot more difficult to deal with that in the aftermarket or racing type of projects.
I’m really glad to hear that you have the quality hardware. I always have trouble finding good hardware and hate having to wait for it to arrive.
Another great video and good lesson. Thanks for the info.
This is dream for a person with OCD like myself! Awesome!!
Man I love your videos, telling it like it is. You've helped me understand the way things work and make setting up my car a breeze now. Thank you
This is a great primer on nuts and bolts for anyone working on race cars. Further information can be found in the other Carroll's (Smith, not Shelby) book Nuts, Bolts, Fasteners, and Plumbing. His books should be on the shelf of every performance automotive worker and shop.
Excellent, excellent, excellent content and appreciated. Your candor and humor is refreshing. Thanks
Now this is a boss I would like to work for. Someone who cares about the quality of the work and will make sure it perfect or it doesn’t fly. Just because no one sees it doesn’t mean it’s ok. At the end of the day he will know and he cares. Not a lot of companies are like this any more
Excellent information. There is always something more to learn and improve upon.
Very good!! Thank you sir! Been wrenching 33 years, I learned A LOT!!!!! Thanks again sir!!!!!
The best bolts/hardware video ive seen. Thank you vey helpful
A retired mechanic involved in motor racing ( circuit) also wheel alignment. Had a 10.000 hour apprentiship, every time i got involved with a new car i would insist on pulling and checking every chassis related bolt and nut . And generally replacing 90% of every bolt and nut .fortunately the front guy at my faourite bolt shop build racecars on the side, i could get any bolt that was listed as unobtainium within 7 days from anywhere in the world. My base country ? New Zealand
I was taught the unthreaded part of the Bolt is Called the "Shank". Great Info!! A+
Yep. Shoulder is a larger diameter than the bolt threads.
@@bedlamite42 It Is? By how much?
@@DJ-yp4kc Whatever size you want. go to Fastenal and look up shoulder bolt
@@bedlamite42 AHH,,..Shoulder Bolt and the Bolts Tim is talking about are different. Tim Is not using Shoulder Bolts.
The technical term is the grip, but you can use whatever grandpa called it.
Thanks Tim, I learn every time I watch one of your Videos. Oh and get a laugh as well.
always learn something from these videos, keep the knowledge coming.
I remember when I got my first job as a line tech, had me a somewhat large selection of craftsman tools I bought to get started and I said that I didn’t need the high dollar snap on stuff. After a short time I began rounding off bolts trying to take crap apart. I’d go to guy next to me a barrow a snap on socket and it’d take the bolt loose, even after I rounded it off, and his tools were wore out. It really does make a difference, it’s expensive at first, but time is money.
I've own ever brand out there. Snap is not better than craftsman Mac or any other. In fact snap on tools often fail testing for advertised strength and calibration. We have seen brand new snap on torque wrench 15 to 25 ft lbs off while the harbor freight El chepo was dead on on multiple calibration sets
Great information and you tell it like it is! Love it!
Can you make a video just on tools you use and recommend? would like to know about some of the imported stuff you talked about. Thanks!
Wow! You sir are very passionate about them bolts. The way you caressed that bolt at the end was uncomfortable as hell lol. Keep up the ggod work
Thanks for putting out all this very valuable information Tim. Can't tell you how many times I see grade 5 hardware on cars. Most people either don't know or don't care enough to do it correctly. Nylon lock nuts are a must and the shallow ones save weight. Having a bolt stick 2 inches out of a nut drives me nuts.
I love Tim. Keep the content coming.
Awesome information,thanks.
Well done and very informative. thank you !
I love your Diction, Never Change
Few more closeups would be appreciated!
Subscribed
When I bought the 1996 Super Stock Championship Firebird, "Hatari" I found out the hard way that someone had used fully threaded bolts in ALL of the 4 link holes. Unreal. If you can find the 1996 Indy Super Stock Finals you'll see the car dangerously crab walking after the finish line. You can see the drivers eyes WIDE OPEN he was so scared. Every hole was CHEWED UP bad. .
Great Information everytime
A lot of great info! Thanks!
Always great info !! Thanks.
Great video. I learned a lot. Now I have to get under the race car and start checking rod end bolts.
Great tips man appreciated
Young men need to watch Tim! It doesn’t matter how difficult something is, you do it because it’s right!
Awesome video with some great information. Im curious why you guys chose the 1/4” MS/NAS bolt for your steering linkages instead of a AN386 taper pin and AN975 taper pin washer combo? They work exceptionally well in eliminating all slop in a torque tube assembly when properly drilled and reamed, they also stay slop free longer than a conventional bolt as well in my experiences.
Awesome video, I'm about to start building another race car, will now search to see if the correct bolts are available here in OZ, must admit to using 12 point sockets, I now know better. Cheers
One correction is needed. AN bolts are equivalent to a Grade 5 at 120 kpsi, Grade 8 from the hardware store is significantly stronger at 150 kpsi. Everything else he said about fit over the threads is correct. Like he said in the video, what you have to do is buy a longer bolt to get the solid section you need then cut back the threads, but there is nothing shitty about a Grade 8 and it could save you some money.
Love your videos, been using nsa bolts for years now
I was curious on the price of those ans bolts. I assumed they would be crazy expensive. I am shocked how cheap they were. There is absolute no reason not to use them!! I work in a factory and have seen first hand how bad bolts chew up stuff. Most of that stuff runs 24/7 till it fails.
Yup, Aerospace specs call for for 2 - 3 protruding threads. Self locking nuts have a 3 cycle limit. Never thread directly into Aluminum, use helical coil inserts and preferably the non-locking variety.
Got me a whole hardware setup from Amazon plus a Long Duck Dong wrench set for my rice car ...see ya at the track jack!
If you want to step up the hardware fastening game even more, consider the use in fasteners like Hi-lok or Hi-Tigue for fastening parts that will not be taken out, meaning you wont be adjusting or removing that hardware -more or less for the life of the car- they have a significant advantage in clamping, and filling the hole to put it simply. They are an interference fit and is one of the strongest ways to fasten two separate pieces together
Love this bloke.
Reminds me of my apprenticeship back in the day when kids used to have respect
Good stuff , I learned alot of this from hanging around the airport with my dad and his buddies who build planes and whatnot.
No doubt I picked up some good stuff in this vid , made me realize I'm very lucky to be around some smart fellas.
One note to remember is that nylock nuts really don't belong in an engine compartment.
At least on planes , I'd assume you guys follow the same general rules.
The devil is in the details. It's this level of craftsmanship that separates the Pro's from the Billy-Bobs
I guess I'm a pro-billy-bob I use the Hardwear store junk but shank it properly.
@@Mtberforlife3 as long as you shank it properly than Pro-Billy-bob it is! Have fun. Just don't kill yourself or the guy in the next lane.
I like 3 threads out the end of all bolt.
Great video...you certainly opened a can of worms with this video. I have quite a bit of experience dealing with hardware for major OEM truck manufacture. A few more dirty little secrets of the industry:
Chinese hardware suppliers have been known to stamp any marking in the head no matter the material property
Plated grade 8 fastener will compromise the strength UNLESS special processes are used..hence the expense aero NAS
Flange head should be used in any critical clamp joint, ie compression retention
One thread past mating nut is all you need
Top quality fasteners have much better thread tolerances
Those tractor grade 5 or 8 fasteners will likely not meet those specs for strength...because who is checking
Thanks again...very good!
Hi.
Ok thanks and will do.
I appreaciate your wisdom.
Karl
Great production
Very interesting! Good stuff!!
With Snap-on make sure you aren’t using Flank Drive Plus or Flank Drive Xtra. Those are for working on your rusty tractor and will leave marks on fasteners. Stick with standard Flank Drive for wrenches and sockets.
Thank you Tim
Great tech video. Great information! Information that could you time, parts, wear and tear, and also save life's.
very interesting,, nice stuff there,, thanks for the video/
Thanks for the video
Just say NO to shyt made in "Chang Fung" LMAO. Never could understand why after spending a ton of money on high end cars like Tim produces, that some people all of a sudden get frugal with fasteners - this has serious safety implications!
Awesome lecture Tim, if you have ever seen GE stainless tools you will throw away any other tools. Only problem you can only get them when you buy a GE jet engine.
You had it right the 1st time Tim throw that shit away don't even give it to somebody
AN represents Army/Navy. The Army AIr Corp existed prior the the formation of the Air Force (1947) and AN bolts were used during WWII prior to the formation of the Air Force. It got the designation to standardize the hardware supplied by every supplier - they had to meet the specifications the military required so there was less problems with hardware. I hope this ends your confusion. The AIr Force requires shouldered bolts as you use them and when the nut is installed and tightened, approximately 2 threads of the bolt should be exposed. Too long adds weight, too short is not acceptable by the inspectors. Luckily, the planes are repaired and, not fabricated when deployed and the T.O.s (Technical Orders) give all the specifications of the airplane so you can find the exact bolt to be used. Split lock washers are garbage. If you ever have issues with a bolt coming loose from vibration and stress, check out the Nord-Lock style lock washers, also called Wedge Lock. They are a 2 piece washer and when the bolt assembly is torqued, it will not come loose. It can even take more torque to dismantle than the tightening force. They are reusable. Can you say tenacious?
Hey what do yall think about titanium hardware? I've been looking at some that have the holes drilled in the head for safety wire.
After machining the end of the bolt to minimize exposed threads, what do you do about corrosion resistance?
I dont think a 100k race car is seeing much rain or road salt lol
@@jamesyoder1644 lol true I don’t see why not going the extra distance if your already paying close attention to detail
I get so tickled listening to him " this NSA bolt here will have enough shoulder to go through both plates"
Picks up the grade 8 bolt- "now this piece of Sh!+ here....."
LOL
Do you have any recommendations for choosing a rear and front differential housing for a car that I want to build to go 300mph?
Dropping that real knowledge
What do you think about gun drilled bolts?
I got a really nice Snap-on adjustable wrench. Will that work?
"I just hit them in the face with a piece of tubing..." Genius! I love this! Excellent value entertainment right here.
Fascinating
do you cut some threads in the shoulder or just use a bolt with a longer shoulder and add washers for a better fit.
Shoulder length is correctly call GRIP LENGTH.
A/N, NAS and MS fastening devices are
called out by DASH size (diameter)
and GRIP length, (length from under head to end of threads)
These bolts can be spec'ed for safety wire holes also.
Correct length of fasteners SHOULD BE
measured with an A/N flat washer under the bolt head.
An A/N washer under the nut, and a minimum of
3 1/2 threads showing after correct tightening.
NO LOCK WASHERS ARE ALLOWED!
Either LOCK TYPE NUTS (NYLOC nuts or METAL
DEFORMED NUTS, self locking or SAFETY WIRE!!!)
Look at a AIRCRAFT SPRUCE catalog.
The catalogs are free and they explain all the terminology
for motorheads that can barely read....
This would cover just about everybody that races...
hopefully.....probably not "those guys"....
Thank you.
I use all Facom tools. Realy nice fitting too.
Tim how much for a rolling chassis NPK car? Just a est ball park? Blower car
Love this guy 😅💪🏻💪🏻
You should have a segment every once in awhile where you go over race cars at an event and just roast them.
Check out his video from when Murder Nova showed up at his shop.
I try to do the same thing with my rocker arm studs, rocker on shank not threads
Aviation standard is 3 threads past the nut. No more, no less
No it's Not 3 threads period! In fact I defy you to show me the 3 thread rule in the spec! There is Always a range of protrusion; the length of which depends on the fastener system being used.
Where does a guy buy the ms, an, and nas fasteners? McMaster Carr? Or is there some better suppliers
So I can't use bolts that I buy by the pound, my cheep tools are going to piss me off...... next your going to tell me that there are no leprechauns 😊
Thanks for the time to put the vids out, I hope new people to the sport understand how much info you are offering.
Where do you buy it??
any bolt you get that’s military related, they are made on the next block over from me, called quality socket and screw down here in SW FL. every bolt and nut are cnc machined On a lathe out of a solid piece of whatever their tinsel strength is I never asked… that’s where i get all mine and i’ll tell ya…. it ain’t cheap and watching every nut bolt and washer be hand inspected and stamped for millimeter perfect ✌🏻
Ret ac mech... Great info for guys building cars. Safety first safety wire ect. Cars may hit a wall and kill a driver or not, but airplane can't pull over on the side off road.
For the dimpled Jet Nuts, you can run a tap through them and run loctite if you want it to be serviceable
Thank You Tim for all the info, My Husband wants to know what you Think about front & rear track width? for door cars, do you have a video? Thanks