Are Ninjas Real? Separating Fact from Fiction! / Understanding Ninjutsu!
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- čas přidán 16. 07. 2024
- Are Ninjas real? Did they actually exist and were they experts in the martial arts? In this video, Christopher Flynn (with research from Antony Cummins) and I discuss the roles Ninjas played in feudal Japan, the art of Ninjutsu and more!
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Viking, I want to say this about your channel which is all you I believe to be inside out but you are the person I think that should be in Joe Rogan's place of broadcasting topics of interest.
I'm going to see if I could make some moves and hopefully down the road, you will be interested in working for a much larger range of viewers unfiltered and still do your CZcams channel.
I've come to really enjoy your videos and I say you're the best right now in many genre areas.
I talk crap sometimes about some of your more obnoxious guest but it's all for fun unless they come search me out and find me and find out I'm a guy who always has two buddies with him and 30 of their friends so I'm not really worried.
Thanks for keeping me in mind for any potential future opportunities bigger than and outside of the channel.
@Dr. Octogon so it wasn't developed by Chinese immigrants in the 6th century, originally called shinobi
"Ninjas don't exist" is exactly what a ninja would want you to think
Tengen Uzui approves this message, as well. 👌
Bigfoot said the same thing.
And thus, proving that they are real, at least that's what the Devil would do. 😈
Thats actually the problem, its a built in excuse.
MiB also
They will wipe ur mind 💀
"Only a ninja can kill a ninja", Grandmaster Ninja Sho Kosugi 1983.
I stand with Sho.
Tengen Uzui approves this message! 👌
Sho was never a ninja
@@danielpetrusevski2572 What do you mean? He Single-handedly beat up the entire Village People. Is that not enough ninja for you?
Omg kenny Richie you are correct
And only sho kosugi can also kill a ninja!!!
Sho...Nuf !
Real or not 80's ninjas will forever be real in my heart🥷🏿
I find ninjutsu to be incredibly fascinating, especially from a historical standpoint
What part of history??? And fascinating how???
Is he true?
For me, practical espionage.. Just like modern times KGB or CIA
Only a ninja can interview a ninja.
I would love to see a interview with Stephen K Hayes and what his opinion on ""Ninjutsu"" is today and the current discoveries historically. I am guessing he would be bias and supporting the Bujinkan as he is one of the reasons why they became so big back in the eighties. Stephen Turnbull would be another person who can shed a little more light on the subject as he has written a significant amount of books relating to it. Um Shinobi that is.
I met Hayes at the Arnold expo, I'll have to set that up!
@@VikingSamurai please please make that happen
One thing I dont understand is ancient scrolls talk of the Togakure Ryu and the Koga Ryu styles from my understanding. So if they are not "Ninjutsu" per say then what is being stated here? Shinobi 🥷 would have studied a form of unarmed combat TaiJutsu to be whats been reported. History talks about the Iga and Koga clans, so if they were just normal job descriptions why make a big deal out if it? We really do need someone to do a bit of explaining 🤔. This is such a brilliant subject to talk about.
@@Yassaganni My understanding is this: "Ninjutsu" refers to spy and stealth skills, to include assassination as well as sabotage, disinformation, etc., as practiced by Samurai in a position to do these necessary things in times of war, and eventually ended up used by criminal societies. Hayes' definition seems to revolve around certain clans who were harassed by the mainstream society for having a different religion and because they were of a lower social class, they had to rely on geurrilla warfare to defend themselves. If you know anything of Hayes, he's big on the Tibetan roots of this religion, such as the Tulku, but, I've learned that this is strictly his thing, the actual Bujinkan in Japan doesn't subscribe to these views. To the common Japanese, Ninjas are mythical figures, ancient fiction, basically.
@@Yassaganni that's why there is more to this than what Vikings guest and Antony Cummins are saying. What your describing as the Togakure Ryu and Koga Ryu styles, what the movies portrayed and the guest and Cummins are saying all go to different extremes. Other historians would disagree with Cummins and Vikings guest. There is one guy (I forget his name) who associates himself with Cummins and he has a youtube channel where he states that the ninja did not even exist and we know that's not true.
Sho Kosugi played the best Ninja in the movies. Don’t know if Ninjas really exist but they make for great films.
Ninjas did existed they were spies, but they were not the glorified stuff that has made believe. Of course you want shinobi/samurais, is a business for japan, just like jujitsu is for Brazil, or kickboxing for Thailand or shaolin for china, everyone likes the fantasy and mysticism and it makes a lot of money is tourism and merchandising. I remembered a long time ago I saw a video about the last living ninja in japan and he said the same thing that Chris is saying. Maybe its time to contact Ashida kim... lol
It's no different from what happened with Cowboys and Gunslingers of the old West, or Pirates and Vikings, Vikings for example...turns out they never wore horned helmets, nor were they complete savages, Cowboys were essentially just hired guns for cattle farmers to prevent cattle from being stolen, and most gunslingers were just crooked outlaws...all these movies are great but people need to realize that reality is often far more dull and brutal than we see in films
Taekkyon is older than Savate, you can't rightfully say all the flashy kicks of TKD came from Savate. Shotokan had a major influence in the creation of TKD and many of the Kwans, so Savate has an indirect influence, but indigenous Korean martial arts with dynamic kicks predate Savate. This dude rubs me the wrong way lol
Taekwondo kicks did not come from taekkyon. That is some shit they attempted to slide in to take away any connections to the Japanese martial arts.
Taekkyon, Taekgyeon, Taekkyeon, or Taekyun (Korean: 태껸/ 택견, pronunciation: tʰɛk̚k̕yʌn) is a traditional Korean martial art. It is characterized by fluid, dynamic foot movement called "pum balgi" or Stepping-on-Triangles.
Taekkyon, Taekgyeon, Taekkyeon, or Taekyun is a traditional Korean martial art. It is characterized by fluid, dynamic foot movement called "pum balki" or Stepping-on-Triangles. Taekkyon includes hands and feet techniques to unbalance, trip, or throw the opponent.
ie. A sport not a martial art stop reading Wikipedia
@@christopherflynn6743 saying it's a sport and not a martial art is an oversimplification of what happens to every style that tries to focus on competition. BJJ, Judo, Boxing, etc. all possess valid martial arts techniques, and are actively treated as sports. Does that mean they have no martial value?
And literally most sources on the history of TKD openly talk about the influence Shotokan has had on the style, because denying that influence would mean denying the cultural atrocities that the Japanese committed against Korea. Its an important truth that isn't really denied much. Source: I'm a Half-Korean TKD black belt that earned my belt in South Korea back in '98, I've had many instructors who embraced the history of the style (some of whom also had Shotokan belts).
The root of my problem is that I've never heard ANYONE tell your tale of Savate being a major influence on eastern arts. Like many on here habe mentioned, Okinawan Karate takes its roots in Kenpo/Kung-fu, and if you're trying to say that they didnt have round kicks or snapping kicks before white people, well....
@@ogredose apparently you never watched a taekkyon
@@christopherflynn6743 I have, they played tournaments on TV several times. There are throws and trips, and kicks have different trajectories, but round kicks and snapping kicks are present and used frequently. Saw many bloody noses from sneaky roundhouses to the face.
Edit: I just remembered that awkward snapping front kick that Taekkyon has, which is probably the kick that you're thinking of as well. There are many movement patterns that are/were present in TKD.
With all that off my chest, I will say that I despise modern TKD. It hurts me to see how the sport aspect devolved.
A lot of the modern perception of the ninja especially in movies stems from Ian fleming and James Bond.
You only live twice both the novel and film involves the ninja and bonds Japanese contact in both film and book was a man called Tanaka or tiger Tanaka
Some believe this may have been where dux got the name Tanaka from
is amazing to see how ninjas are basically james bond, you take some buracratic inteligence job and transforms into a action triller , Ian Fleming is a marketing genius
The main thing I like about this channel is that VS isn't biased towards anyone, every guest on here speaks on their personal experiences in the martial arts and I end up learning something new everyday.
Iga province (Japan) had those I considered ninja. They frustrated the hell out of Oda Nobunaga because the Iga people were so good at ambushing.
wow that went by fast! great convo. need a part 2!
My original martial arts class did not charge or have a ritualized test(Later they did charge for higher ranks). I never charged my students for rank or have a ritualized test. In fact I tried to strip down my ranking system to only 3 ranks(white,black, and black instructor) but my students didn't care for the idea. I really dislike ranking....and the idea of charging for it sickens me. However my schools and classes were never my primary means of income.
We did do testing....mostly kata and sparring. It was up the instructor if you passed or failed.
I was facinated by the ninja as a kid. I brought all the books, Masaaki Hatsumi, Stephen Hayes and everyone other ninja author. I loved it. I still love it lol.
Great Video clicked like and really enjoyed this one . That guy is a good speaker and knows his stuff . GET HIM BACK FOR MORE .
Props to Chris. Amazing facts, especially about Savante, and the actually timeframe of jiu jitsu.
Another great interview. To quote the Viking, fascinating!
These were great. Keep these coming. Very knowledgeable.
Finally truth, I myself also researched this issue in japan, and this is true, i trained with another master called Jinichi Kawakami, he has the same opinion
Another myth that was recently dispelled for me was the idea of Bushido as being the Samurai code of honour, when in actual fact codes of honour differed among samurai clans, and more often than not, samurai were in fact the least honourable during times of war...in fact the samurai were more of a military or noble class rather than just all being warriors, there were definitely samurai that were warriors, but it was more a social class that was beneath the Shogun and the Emperor, you could even find samurai that weren't warriors at all but just belonged to one of the clans.....the Bushido code itself however was only written in the late 1800s and was used as propaganda during the Meiji Restoration in Japan and the period of colonial Imperialism
Absolutely correct
I was always fascinated by Ninja growing up especially how they were portrayed in movies as hired assassins…the most notable one for me was Sho Kosugi 🥷…it be interesting to have him on your future shows just to see his take & how he learned ninjitsu. Of course can’t leave out the samurai…maybe you could have Hiroyuki Sanada in the future too would be an amazing interview too. Thanks for all the JCVD contents! Keep them up!🤙🏾
Savat = American Combat Savate is what i practice. I am also a military veteran like this gentleman..
Thank you for your service
I never heard of american combat savate. What is that?
Brings back memories when I studied the whole shinobe era.Great topic keep ‘em coming VS👍
Okay I have some problems with this video.
Jujutsu was already established and recorded before the 1600s in fact the oldest school originated in sengoku period, you can look it up today, Takenouchi-ryū.
Samurai were not learning Aikijujitsu,it is connected to Dauto-Ryu which despite it's claim the school is not believed to go back any further than the 20th century.
There is no evidence Karate's kicks originated from Savate, I'm aware of the video that Jesse made that popularize this theory however he made lots of assumptions and mistake in that video.
Shinboi no mono or ninja it doesn't matter, they mean the same thing even before the word ninja came around there were many different words for Shinobi depending on the location and Clan.
Things were happening in the Edo period it can be argued to be considered a Heyday for martial arts development, Samurai were also much more than just Tax Collectors having many different purposes such as policeman, instructors, bodyguards, fireman, Etc.
He overestimates the Chinese influence on Japan, in fact The Art of War is not believed to be introduced at the time but much later. which an area such as iga for example famous for ninjutsu is extremely unlikely to have access to it, at least until the Tokugawa shogunate gain power since Iga was a reliable Ally.
There's no evidence for the the iconic black suit image of ninja to originate from Kabuki, in fact when ninja were in the story they dress in colorful flamboyant outfits like other characters also in early modern ninja media they were not depicted in those black outfits that came around much later.
The Bansenshukai is pretty controversial, at least half of it is considered BS.
Samurai was a class, ninja was an occupation, well you will have Samurai that were ninja most would not come from that background, the job also included much more than just i spying such as Commando work, arson Etc.
Here's an video interviewing a historian who wrote a book on ninja history, it is unfortunately only in Japanese so you will require a translator if you cannot understand or read it.
czcams.com/video/6sflX-Y1PSw/video.html
If you want the truth you have to research Takamatsu’s training such as where did he learn the 9 ninja schools Ryus
Great guest. Very knowledgeable about history and combat. Enjoyed listening. What is his primary martial art?
Unfortunately I don't have a primary martial art seeing how I've learned so many. However I started with boxing then judo
@@christopherflynn6743 this was a great discussion mate. Thanks for sharing your historical knowledge.
@@RenegadeRanga I'm glad you enjoyed it, if you wanna know more I would encourage you to do some research on your own, it would be interesting to see how many people arive at a similar conclusion.
@@christopherflynn6743 you really know your Japanese history dude, my first exposure to the truth about the Ninja was through Anthony Cummings and most recently there is an Italian CZcamsr who's a linguist and history teacher that lived in Japan named Metatron, he's got a bunch of videos that dispel a lot of myths regarding both samurai and the Shinobi, I guess it's not that much different from how pirates, cowboys and Vikings have been exaggerated in modern times.... keep putting this info out there
@@christopherflynn6743 greetings, may I ask what are your credentials as a researcher?
The two Kanji characters for "ninja" have a Japanese pronunciation of "shinobi-no-mono" and a Chinese pronunciation of "nin-sha". Like most Kanji, these two characters together have a complex meaning, but in this case they are the same in both Japanese and Chinese, referring to someone who has attained the qualities of being stealthy, silent (both physically and mentally, or personality-wise, like someone who is still, reserved, etc.) and someone who endures. In 1162 Daisuke Togakure (who renounced his Bushido code) and Kain Doshi, a Chinese monk, formalized shinobi-related concepts into a new, amalgamated theory of guerilla warfare called ninjutsu. Togakure's decedents later created Togakure-ryū, the first "ninja" school.
The entire history and concept has been unfortunately, and quite drastically, romanticized and bastardized. But I don't see a reason to doubt that the Togakure-ryū did exist, even if Hatsumi Masaaki won’t publicly release any of the written materials held in reverence. Yes, the term "ninja" is a westernized term, but there's a basis for it with the Chinese pronunciation. Flynn is absolutely correct that ninjutsu is not itself a martial art. This is a very common misconception. Practitioners learned a variety of styles when it came to hand-to-hand combat. At its core ninjutsu is a guerilla warfare methodology designed to exploit the limitations of the Bushido code that infused a false sense of "honor" into how samurai approached warfare.
But in my view, while it’s healthy to question everything, Flynn’s claim that Hatsumi Masaaki, and in turn Stephen Hayes, were essentially succored by a con is unfounded. What I would agree with, however, is that in the 70s and into the 80s what may have been genuine disciplines got corrupted by modern commercial sensibilities, tarnishing the core they grew out of.
I didn't claim that it was a con, what I said is that we don't know. They only know what they've been told. If they are told this is ninjutsu why would they believe it's not? No one knows when and where the original con started.
@@christopherflynn6743
TL;DR: you make a fair point, but currently there's circumstantial evidence (i.e. hearsay) suggesting the modern Togakure-ryū at least stems from the historical counterpart, while there's no evidence that it doesn't. Is it possible it's not genuine? Anything is possible, sometimes despite what appears to be incontrovertible evidence. But for this, as it stands at this point in time, there's no reason to land on the side of doubting (while yet keeping the possibility of it not being genuine open--we should always be ready to adapt to new information).
That by no means indicates that the modern iteration of Hatsumi's Bujinkan school has value. Ninjitsu isn't a martial arts style. It's a methodology. Bujinkan is NOT ninjitsu.
Longer version:
To clarify, I don't think what you're saying is that the Togakure-ryū never existed, but that what was handed to Hatsumi Masaaki (if he didn't fabricate it himself) may not actually trace back to the historical Togakure-ryū descended from Daisuke Togakure and Kain Doshi? If so, you're correct that we can't know for sure, not without evidence that's more in-depth than the mere anecdotes we have currently. If that's what you mean, I don't disagree with your statement at face value. But counterpoint: we have no evidence at all to the contrary.
That's like saying there's no evidence I went to Price Chopper yesterday and bought a bag of chips because I locked the receipt in a box. While I have a bag of chips, one could posit that I very well could have bought it at Hy-Vee instead, and actually purchased it a day earlier. In other words, while we can propose the possibility of Hatsumi Masaaki's school not being a genuine artifact of the historical Togakure-ryū (perhaps unbeknownst even to himself), I don't find value in putting any more effort into it than merely pondering. At least, not without a physical attempt to pin it down further (perhaps someone wants to sneak in and take photo evidence or pilfer hardcopy documentation to help prove authenticity).
In fact, this phenomenon applies to most things in life. There's very little we truly know with certainty. There's always at least a sliver of uncertainty (e.g. is the chair I'm sitting in as I type this very sentence going to decohere at a quantum level or fail mechanically and dump me to the floor?) There's no black and white. Everything is a grayish blend, fraught with more nuance than our feeble human minds prefer to grapple with (as a species we tend to prefer the comfort of certainty). Ugh. Sorry, really digressed there. At any rate...
Very short version:
I can't argue that your question isn't valid, because it is. We should always question. But the question itself isn't a reason to dismiss a claim.
The problem is it's on him to supply the evidence since he is the one who's making the claim. It's not up to us to prove it true or untrue. To this day he is not supplied anyone any historical data records information or anything else for that matter of any accuracy that would suggest his story to be true. By saying there's no evidence to the contrary is a argument of fallacy. Example: "You can't prove that I'm wrong so therefore I must be right" All we can do is take all the evidence that we have seen to date and weigh it against things that had been stated claimed or spoken by Masaaki Hatsumi and weigh that against the claims that he has made that we absolutely know to be false. This is what cops investigators and detectives do in order to get a better idea of what is true vs what isn't. In other words if I tell 500 lies One could logically deduce that the next statement would More than likely beyond a reasonable doubt also be a lie. Now on a personal level, it is my belief that he is a fucking liar and nothing more to investigate as far as his dumbass goes.
@@christopherflynn6743 Fair enough. It's definitely "not up to us to prove it true or untrue". But it's also not up to us to claim it's true or untrue with any degree of certainty.
Hatsumi definitely does himself no favors by not producing the scrolls he says he has (although some have claimed to have seen them, it's still only anecdotal evidence). I suspect he doesn't care. In light of which, I'd say that it's only on him to publicly provide evidence if he cares what people think. I personally find no reason to doubt him, but neither do I see cause to fully support his veracity. In general, minus any indication of falsehood I err on the side of a claim. If someone has something contradicting his claim I'd be interested in seeing it.
On a different note, from what I've gathered over the years I do think his Bujinkan school has evolved into an overly commercialized version of what the original intent may have been, or should have been (perhaps only a shadow of what Toshitsugu Takamatsu or Toda Shinryūken before him, if they were legit, would have wished for), which diminishes its cred. In other words, even if it does share legitimate ancestry with the historical Togakure-ryū I'm not sure he exactly has a lot to brag about. In fact, it may be worse in that case.
@@DistantThunderworksLLC the Japanese government dismissed his claims, basically calling him a liar. He is a money man nothing more nothing less. If you chose to believe in his nonsense that's on you, I wouldn't but that's just me. Most of his original students have left him in light of all the facts that ha e come to surface regarding what a "ninja" is and was. All these facts contradict everything the man has said. Antony Cummings is a good place to start with real information, now with that said, Antony isn't the end all be all even he has embedded interests and a bit of a biased perspective. However he is the closest to tangible information.
Good show. Basically. Shinobis and ninjas are different things. A shinobi is a samurai working in the spy game. Influencing and or gathering info. He said no assassinations but I’m sure it happened. Spies do that too. No disrespect. A ninja is a just a martial artist I guess. It was marketing that created what we think of as ninjas
No, ninja is a modern pronunciation of the same kanji that reads shinobi. Shinobi is what they would’ve been called in the time period they existed in.
But Chris Farley burned the scrolls!
Oh Spade, why did you leave Farley in charge of the scrolls?!?
Most people don't realize martial arts art as old as people think. Karate is early 1900 most of the others around 1920s and later.
In the book Hagakure translated from texts from real samurai over 300 years ago. When there is a story of assassinating people in their sleep or on the throne the killer is referred to as ninja.
They had cammo to fit the terrain only using black or navy blue at night. Of course humans love folklore and exaggerating stories over time so someone disappearing in the night becomes someone becoming a shadow.
One real Samurai, who retired and became a Zen Buddhist Monk.
Very interesting! Great clip
I would admit that there are a lot of crappy teachers and practitioners in the Bujinkan, but this blanket statement that there is no real rank test or paying to get your next rank is not true with my teacher. The Same is true with a work out in class. I always end up with sweat stains on my gi after class, drenching wet and when you take your test, you better know the techniques and the key elements of them. I don't really even care anymore if it's historical Ninjutsu or not, but the techniques are real. We will even try out different techniques from other arts if they are worth anything.
I like this interview very much! Honor to Chris Flynn.
Awesome interview
Hey man please do a video of what happened to karate and the effective ness and is it worth studying in Okinawa or forgot about it .. please make a video
Learn Cobra-Kai karate ...its worth it!
Watch jesse enkamp he knows far more about karate
@@sliderx1897 I know I fellow him
@@robd1329 lol mate
Thank you
Mr. Flynn for serving our Country & appearing in this video with the 1 & only Viking Samuri.
I appreciate you & others who serve/d in our 🪖 military. You are "THEE 100% HEROS THAT PROTECT,
GRANT,
GIVE,
MAINTAIN OUR FREEDOM/S.
I can "NOT" thank you enough.
I will & "SHALL" = "future tense," pray 🙏 for "YOU," YOUR FAMILY & FRIENDS."
Thanks again.
Johnny
JDC PLASTERING AND PAINTING INC. 🎨
As a 20+ year bujinkan member, I will let you in on a little secret. The best practitioners in this art, have usually done something else ( or many other things ) before. Environments where there was discipline, physical conditioning, and contact. Be it Karate, Judo, kick boxing, wrestling etc. With that knowledge and then what you pick up in the Bujinkan, you can become more than competent without being stuck in rigid lines of thinking. The problem being, some questionable history, the hero worship, and the lack of standards. I appreciate where Antony cummins is coming from but he also didn't really put in that much time with the Japanese. A few classes is not the same as years training with the Japanese. Now, as for the content of what is taught... if you approach it with previous experience, it will make more sense. I personally feel that the last 10-15 years have been too loose and a bit more conceptual and fantastical at times. Many high ranking students can't even punch properly. But the older Japanese Shihan are still around and they can still move and hit as needed. They have a ton of knowledge to share but it is up to the practitioner to go home and apply/adapt what is taught to them. He also isn't correct in saying it is one huge scam. A few of the more notable schools that comprise of the nine different areas/schools of study have a proven line and can be traced back in history. The " ninja" aspects sure. You could debate that. But if you are not hung up on the source and walk away more with the lesson or insight being shared, then there is still value. In my experience, how the " ninja" mindset is applied to the schools practiced doesn't need a certificate of authenticity. You could call those lessons, common sense. They adapt and change with time. So essentially, he said it himself in this interview, shinobi and samurai were one and one the same. So the shinobi teachings are either specified in these schools or incorporated in the training and weaponry. Which is essentially what the Bujinkan does. Think about it. He was looking for ninja kata but instead missed how to teach kata with the mindset in mind. That's the true deception hidden in plain site. Him and Antony missed the point.
I am a white belt in To-Shin Do, can you explain this ninja mindset?
Awesome conversation.
This was a great discussion and history lesson. The point made about conformation bias is absolutely accurate. It's one of the greatest flaws of human psychology. If a human wants to believe something they will find a way.
During the Asuka period (592-710), Shoutoku Taishi (574-627) hired Otomono Sabito, a descendant of Ominomikoto, as an agent and assassin.
Shoutoku Taishi called him shinobi (one who seeks to obtain good information). Otomono was from the Iga region.
C7, the Hattori clan of the Iga region wore black at the Aekuni shrine rituals. They were called Kurondo (black party).
In 1180, the Hattori clan fought as samurai in the Genpei War. They were good at guerrilla warfare.
In C12, the Hattori clan teamed up with the jizamurai, samurai of peasant origin, to become lords of the Iga region and became independent from the shogunate.
They became mercenaries all over Japan. They later came to be called Iga-ryu.
In the latter half of the C13 era, people who acted rebelliously against manor lords such as temples and aristocrats were called akuto (rogue party). The Hattori clan was akuto.
Ninjas at that time were called by various names depending on the region, such as rappa, suppa, and kusa.
C14, the literary work Taiheiki has a record of Sinobi.
C15, Sinobi became a mercenary and intelligence agent for a Sengoku daimyo.
In 1578, the Tenshō Iga War began a war between Nobunaga's army and the Iga clan.
In the 1600s, it was written as Xinobi in the dictionary compiled by the Society of Jesus.
In 1655, Hattori Minobe Shinzo of the Hattori clan wrote the ninjutsu book Ninpiden.
In 1676 Fujibayashi Nagatonokami of the Hattori clan wrote the ninjutsu book Mansenshuukai.
In 1679, the first ninja researcher Kikuoka Nyogen compiled Iranki.
In 1681, military scientist Natori Masazumi wrote the ninjutsu book Shoninki.
In C17, the fictional Sinobi appeared in the popular culture novel Otogibouko.
Sinobi of creation such as Kabuki, Joruri, Kyogen and Sinobi's Goemon Jiraiya appeared and they became popular.
In 1911, the novel Sarutobi Sasuke was published. Since then, Sinobi has appeared in many novels.
In 1916, Kougaumon, the first ninja movie, became popular.
Around 1920 they were called ninsha.
In 1958, the novel Kouga ninpocho was published. In this novel, many ninjya who use techniques like psychic powers appeared. This novel influenced manga and anime.
In 1957, the novel Yagyu bugeicho was made into a movie. Since then, ninjya has appeared in many movies.
In 1959, managa's Ninja bugeichou, Sasuke was published. Since then, ninjya has appeared in many mangas.
In the 1960s, the television series Onmitu Kenshi, featuring ninjya, was broadcast.
This TV series was broadcast in Australia and the Philippines and ninjya became popular with young viewers.
In 1967, the anime series Kamen no ninjya Akakage was broadcast.
In 1967, ninjya appeared in the movie 007.
This guy and I have similar backgrounds. I grew up in the 80s worshipping ninjas. Learned every martial art I could. Joined the military and went into Special Operations. Then I got a degree in history and started really doing research and found so many problems with the common narrative of shinobi, and so many other mythologized warriors. Good video.
Here's the thing. There are certain techniques that is part of ninjutsu. You fought with what you had on you. Like kunai, shuko, koketsu shoge. These were tools exclusively ninja tools. Like he said taijutsu was samurai systems. Ninjutsu had to have it own exclusive stuff based on 1 to 5 people, instead of a battalion. It would have to have separate type fighting techniques.
I’m pretty sure Da American Ninja was real, when I was a kid….
A historical documentary! Lol
...you have Great ninja skillz!
Michael Dudikoff does exist…sooo
Chris Flynn is very knowledgeable and made for a great interview! Please try to get him on the channel more and more
I recommend the book by Don Draeger called Ninjitsu: the art of invisibility.
I was thinking you know what made Bruce Lee great? He was an American hero just like Chuck Norris. Perhaps being born here in America and speaking our language makes a big difference. Oh, and because he was a hero for the Chinese people against the Japanese, and I think the British, and Americans as well.
In historic times I think I read a history book were ninjas fought samurais.
Interview with Stephen K Hayes was great. But I think you need to make interview with real historian like Dr. Kacem Zoughari. He holds a Ph.D. in Japanese History and Culture from the prestigious INALCO.
when you want to talk about biology, you have to find proper person for that. if you want to talk about math, also you have to find proper person for that. Really, I have more respect for someone who have Ph.D., who really studied something then someone else.
Great stuff man
Cool interview i learnd new information about Ninja
great video such knowledge
As a kid I wanted to be three things, Bruce Lee, a ninja, and King Kong…I never really grew out of that.
I discovered years ago that ninjitsu wasn’t so much a martial art as it was a study of combat and mastery of warfare, which as Tsun Su said, “all warfare is based in deception.”
I do love the typical Ninja movies from the 80s with Sho Kosugi as much as the next person, but i am more aware today that real
Existence of Ninja's hundreds of years ago were very different what we see in the movies as is stated in the book I have written by
John Man who explains the were once real, the medieval equivalent of the SAS: spies, saboteurs and Assassins, could they fly or
Make themselves invisible ? of course not, but there skills gave them a magical aura which is more believable to take in.
Me and my buddies were real ninjas back in the 80's. We even had the mail order uniforms and throwing stars!
You might find out more if you eat a meal at Ninja NYC restaurant.
True or not… the bocks about Nicholas Linnear, ”Ninja” and the follow ups, written by Eric Van Lustbader would have made some really great movies. 😊
So produce it.
@@righteousshadowsdojopt.3979
I`m not a producer... =)
@@patriknn1 then become one.
Great vid, I always heard tht the art of ninja was created to kill off the samurai and they trained in different forms and weapons to be assassins. Great take on it and how historic facts get watered down over time
My body come back to my Shadow as Ninja 😅😅😅
I remember as a kid being influenced and inspired by stuff like THE AMERICAN NINJA movies and also computer games THE LAST NINJA and SABATEUR - I would watch everything Ninja related. They existed, in Japanese history, there is evidence of the Shinobi. They need to make a Ninja movie with Van Damme or Dudikoff or both of them together, it would be awesome, maybe have them investigating a secret society and go out to destroy them, a martial arts mystery movie with infiltration and espionage and hide and seek stuff!
Thanks for another awesome video from you again Viking Ninja... erm I mean Viking Samurai
That's a good movie idea 🤘🍻🤘
I'd watch the hell out of that movie!
For sure that would be an epic movie
That's a terrible movie idea. Van dammed and Dudicoff are too old for any type of action. These guys were stars over 30 years ago. A good plot would be a secret ninja society comes out of hiding in order to commit a huge theft so they can raise money to buy weapons in order to kill all the leftist woke dick heads.
I forgot all about that movie, American ninja. Great movie! Great actor!
So, today the real ninja would be the green screen guy for chroma keying, as an analogy.... holy shit.
If you really want to learn some facts about the ninja world I recommend reading Ninja Spirit of the Warrior Vol 1. From Stephen Hayes
I interviewed Hayes, great interviews!
@@VikingSamurai I currently watching the last part! Very very good!! I hope some day you will interview Seagal like that or better! thank you!
Chris Farley was the best ninja!
Only for you bro watching a 5 min add to soport the channel lol 🤙
Thank you! Lol
My first experience with Bujinkan came more than 40 years ago when 150 of us, all well trained martial artists, met at a former military camp in Ohio for six days of 6:00 am to 10:00 pm training in empty hand, short and long range weapons, projectile weapons, explosives, rappelling, stealth and sentry removal. There were people from the British SAS and American military, as well as some pretty shady people who tended to disappear when the cameras were around. We all thought Ninjutsu was a bunch of techniques missing from our own arts that we could add to our repertoires (does "MMA" sound familiar?), only to find out that Bujinkan Taijutsu (body mechanics) is absolutely nothing like any other martial art and could not be incorporated into our arts. Some people say it's like Karate with weapons or Jujutsu or Judo. Nope, nothing like them, nothing like any martial sport. If Bujinkan is fake as so many people claim, why is it so mechanically and internally different from every other art, yet so very effective in its own right? I say internally because Bujinkan Taijitsu is, in fact, an internal martial art, not a whole lot different from Taijiquan with the exception of the outer physical manifestation.
@@andymax1 Toshitsugu Takamatsu spent his younger days in China. I believe he would have gone to the capital city of Beijing because it is not that far from Japan and it would make sense to go to the capital of a foreign country. In those days, Yang and Hunyuan style Taiji were developing in Beijing, as were a couple of schools of Bagua. I think Takamatsu probably had contact with practitioners of those martial arts and his martial art may have been influenced by them. That is only my opinion, which I cannot verify.
Great how you dug into a commenter on your channel.
I know that Ninja Turtles are real LOL. I've seen them on the big screen
Ninjas fascinate me big time especially sho kosugi and byhe way David the way you look in this video is beyond handsome xx
31:33 the stage hands in black statement reminded me of the Shadowkhan ninja from Jackie Chan adventures. “The Shadowkhan are a ninja-esque group of shadow spirit warriors from the Shadow Realm.
The Shadowkhan are demonic beings dressed in black with grayish-blue skin and glowing red eyes.”
One of the ryus for ex was koto ryu so there are actual techniques with real attributes. Hatsumi combined them into one. This is where it comes from. Takmatsu went to China I know. He was called the Tiger there
Awesome thanks
Your guest is absolutely correct. In Asia it's a known fact that the "ninja" as portrayed in modern culture is pure fantasy. There has never been a combat art of ninjitsu.
The modern ninjitsu martial art stuff was made up in the 80's
The "ninja" were just spies, mostly from samurai ranks, but also at times sailors or local peasants/farmers would be hired to gather intelligence as well. that's about it.
Well, like he said “there are privately owned scrolls, owned by private citizens and good luck getting to look at those” the assassination thing came from somewhere. So he does not know if that is true or not true and neither do I. Maybe the “ninja” or shinobi had a reason for not documenting an assassination. I don't know for sure and neither does he.
don't forget that some of the first TV shows on japanese television are super hero series about ninjas, for they shinobi is basicaly super hero comics
@@griffin2599 ninja did document they way to assassinate, it had nothing different from the normal one.
@@signor_zuzzu the guest said in the interview that there is no documented evidence of a ninja assassinating someone. What I'm saying is maybe they did actually assassinate a warlord or something but we don't know. There are scrolls owned by private citizens that you cant access, so maybe it was documented. Maybe it happened and they never documented a thing. There are also historians on a Netflix documentary discussing that ninja did not start out as martial artist but mountain people that developed and used guerrilla warfare tactics.
@@griffin2599 if by documented you mean a physical signed contract there is no way that something like that would still exist. An order of assassination would be given verbally and if it was written the paper would be destroyed.
If you're asking yourself: did ninja assassinate? Of course they did.
On the subject the ninja texts say that there are 2 way to kill an enemy general while you are infiltrated:
1 go kamikaze
2 if by chance you find him alone kill him and leave.
Hypothetically speaking if Ninjas weren't real, they are a thing now.
I did the same research around 10 years ago, as I was making a mod for a famous RTS game based in feudal Japan and wanted authenticity.
I concluded pretty much the exact same thing as you guys. It's very unlikely that Ninjutsu was a fighting system, but a collection of guerilla warfare and espionage techniques.
The black ninja gi, ninjato etc. Are all modern inventions fueled by romanticised myth and folklore.
I believe Shinobi-no-mono rose in popularity after the peasants of Iga province rebelled against their Samurai masters, and they developed non-conventional warfare techniques that discarded traditional notions of honour.
That's my 50 year allusion Shattered ! 🤯🙏
Talk with Dr. Kacem Zoughari about this topic.
and 2 pages of political warfare in some japanese pagode became some fat nerds using black pijamas 300 years later...
Great video, but is soo bizarre to see a person have a rational conversation about shinoby on the internet, only on the viking channel
I guess my take on this video is we all have an opinion...im not into trying to debunk any martial art...I take what I need from each and every system....it took a lot of years of research in all these fighting styles...I respect all these styles and I'd never call them SCAMs
I m french ..artist martial ...and instructor for self défense and technico arrestations in national police..i was born in 1956.. in France the system dan is realy long time you are 5 dan for 40 years practice minimum..many french martial artist in 1980 were to go in japan and pay dan's and return in France with 5 eme dan ...or was shocking for all martial artist traditionnel..
To cut a longs story short, "Shinobe" were Samurai who trained to be spy's, therefore did espionage work, also spied on other clans or whoever hired them.... That makes far more sense after I read Anthony Cummins books.... Before that, I equated them to our modern day special forces or intelligence networks... Interesting subject... "Ninja" in Japanese means spy.... 🧐👐
I used live down the street from a dojo called martial arts academy, at first they were legit they thought Shotokan karate,and Judo, but then something happened in the 70s they claimed to teach authentic Kung Fu, then real JKD They advertised it as Bruce Lee's system,later they had "real" Ninjutsu, then real Muay Thai -- that place just became a "Flavor of the Month" studio. It finally closed after being there for over 40 years, guess couldn't get enough students and the "Master" was getting up there in age, oh I forgot, this might've been the final nail in the coffin, he had a kids class saying that he'll teach your kids to fight like the Power Rangers !!!😀😀😀
They are real! I’ve seen what Sho Kosugi is capable of doing!!!
LMAFO Apparently Only a Neenja can kill a Neenja
Sho Kosugi came actually from Karate and studied stuff like Kendo and other things before his movie career. This also so silly about Frank Dux, because many of his "Ninja Crap" is from modern Karate.
He may not be an actual ninja but he makes some pretty good movies.
And yes, they do exist.
@@FredKuneDo yeah, it's obvious by the way he moves he is mostly trained in Karate but he does have some knowledge about ninjutsu and ninja weapons. I have heard rumors he had a little bit of training in the actual art but I don't know how true that is.
@@punisher7772 this is also questionable. In many movies he used the Ninjato-sword, which is most likely ahistorical bullshit,that never existed. Then there are Shuriken which existed, but were in common use by Samurais and can't be called "Ninja weapons". Some of his weapons and armor are downright silly and were just made for the Ninja-Trash-Movies. (Gloves with claws! 😂)
Chris, you can't just define Ninja through one lenses of time. Your description is of the 1500s Ninja. The original Ninja were not samurai, they used methods developed for survival. These survival methods termed as Ninjutsu began around 800 AD.
Takamatsu was an instructor who taught jujutsu not ninja .😮
Because before I stopped training from everything from martial arts to weight training there was a time I was still training pretty damn hard for a regular person but I was not looking for a fight and I had lots of many years of Peace as far as no fighting nobody throwing hands with me or anything weird like that I was just playing for fun and if I had to use it then I was already trained but I would hope that I wouldn't have to use it at all because that's just going to bring more problems already and that's one of the reason why I stopped training because I kind of lost the point of it
@John M. I totally agree thank you
A ninja just slipped in and out of my house and nobody noticed. 😎
Great stuff! Many thanks! My Ninja fantasy has been completely destroyed but that's OK ;)
It's not completely destroyed. There is more than one historian out there that would disagree with some of what he is saying and would agree with other parts of what he is saying. Also, he even said “there are private scrolls out there that you can't get and review” so we don't know everything.
There is nothing wrong in liking fictional ninja. Distinguishing them from shinobi it's only a plus
Kof Andy Bogard and SF4 Guy are my 2 favorite Ninjas..
Get Antony Cummins on next!
I find it hard to believe that a group of shinobi didn’t have their own style of martial arts, written down in a scroll or not. Practice extensively as a group over time and developing a unique style is certainly not a far fetched concept.
if you are a spy and you enter in a fight, you are a relly bad spy
there more gueixas that are "ninja", than fighters or samuray that are "ninja"
It wouldn't be... if Ninjutsu wasn't all about how to avoid fighting.
I think you miss what I was saying in the video. The samurai did have fighting arts but they're fighting arts pertained strictly to the battlefield using weapons. For example contrary to popular belief the katana isn't the samurais primary weapon. It's actually the bow, second to the bow is the spear, coming at a distant third would be his katana. You need to use your imagination and think back to a medieval battlefield where everybody is chest to chest shoulder to shoulder swinging for the fences with whatever weapon they have in their hand. Now imagine you being the only jackass out there trying to use karate for example. You would be killed in a matter of seconds. Being a Shinobi is more of a title, a title that suggests what it is you do in conjunction with the military. So instead of using words Shinobi or ninja use the word spy we'll just replace it with that word. So somebody was to ask you hey what did you do in the samurai Army? You would say I was a spy I snuck out broken the enemy camps gathered information brought it back to my allies to better aid them in effort on the battlefield. Now imagine that same guy saying well did you learn any hand-to-hand combat fighting? You would say no what are you an idiot. I wasn't operating as a samurai I was operating as a Shinobi.
Thank you for the reply. Very informative! And fascinating. It is easier to understand the distinction when explained as a job title.
@@christopherflynn6743 If a Shinobi is infiltrating or exfiltrating, and there is a sentry in his way, or blocking him, he would probably have to dispatch him using a hidden dagger, a short sword, or even his own hands depending on the circumstances.
I'm a little late with responding, but in regards to Ninjutsu you should get author and historical ninja researcher, Antony Cummins...continued success with your channel!
That is the plan.
My understanding is that “ninjas” were people of many different geographies and martial arts background who did clandestine missions for any number of reasons and kept it secret because of the nature of what they were doing. i.e. not a single system per se
IMO, if Ninjutsu was just old-school Japanese SpecOps, then modern-day Ninjutsu interpretations ought to focus on techniques used by modern intelligence and counter-intelligence services. Less Ninja Stars and more Sniper Rifles.
It was all bullshit and made up, most of the so famous ninjas were actually samurai.
What does he think about Sho Kusogi and all rest of famous Japanese masters who says they practice ninjitsu ?
In there minds they did learn ninjutsu but only because they where told that's what they learned. If I say hey I'm going to teach you Spartan fighting and at the end I hand you a belt you are going off into the world thinking "I know spartan fighting" then you teach others not knowing I made it all up.
@@christopherflynn6743 thanks for your honest reply
“Hey guys, it’s Chris Flynn!”
He is telling the truth 💯💯💯💯💯💯💯
I was always told by my grandmom that they didn't dress like that unless certain mission's and they we're the special forces of medieval Japan.
Ninja back in those days built a myth around themselves to cause fear
Ninjas are Real. I saw American Ninja 1, 2, 3, 4 and 5. Stop lying to me with these Real Life videos 😄😄😄
..Sho Nuffff!