We Did Not Expect This To Happen! | Lightweight EMTB Comparison
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- čas přidán 17. 12. 2022
- It wouldn't be untrue to say some people have become more driven by the weights and measures of EMTBs in the past few years. With people pursuing lighter yet more powerful E-bikes, is there an argument to say this is the way forward? Join Steve Jones for an afternoon of riding as he compares multiple lightweight E-bikes to find out!
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The most SHOCKING part of this test is the crazy PRICES! My first levo was 5k and my Giant 2021 was 6k.
What does a Yeti Ebike run now 18k ???
@@323johnnybravo😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Yeah agreed. My levo was 6k, there is no way in planet earth the Fuel is 7k more bike. The prices are getting out of hand - the profit margin on a bike like that must be huge. We are being taken for Ride.
Too much for little more. this weight watching on bikes is irrelevant for none pro riders. If you are a casual rider 500g makes no differnce
@@scoobydan8042 you are right. The profit margin is huge. I saw it at my bike dealership.
For a bike that has a MSRP of 3990 they paid 2200 in purchase. And the manufacturer of course has a sales margin too.
Weight is less important to me than being able to travel 100k in the hills.
Exactly. Horses for courses. I'd be much more interested in an SL with lower power but bigger battery
get one with range extenders ? i went from Monaco to Naples on an Orbea Rise, with two extenders, not attached to the bike, a small backpack. range was good enough for me.
@@nitraM321 hate riding with a backpack personally, let alone a very heavy one
What bike you ride? As if it’s got a less then a 700wh battery inside the levo SL with extender on will do more distance. People love to comment on things they are not clued about
@@paulj5975 Cube 140 SL 750WH. I live in a mountainous part of Germany so I normally can only squeeze around 60km out of it max. That's with keeping it mostly in eco and using tour for the climbs. You're right about that last part though. I have no clue what you're on about. All I said is I prefer a bike that can take me on a longer tour over light weight/small battery...
Wow, didn't expect that! Also, that Bafang is a noisy motor, would do my head in.
Quite fancy a Levo SL to complement my Levo. But then I also fancy another Levo for commonality of battery and parts. Maybe I need 3... I'll consult the missus on the matter...
Without also measuring Steves power (power meter pedals) the „Test“ is indeed just a bit of fun, nothing more.
I have two different EMTB, and their power/cadence curve and response behaviour makes you pedal quite differently without even knowing.
True, I find my Bosch Cube to be much less of a workout, even in eco, than my Brosh Spesh. Very different response too, as you say.
Same here. The Shimano EP8 is a steam roller, pulling me even at low cadence. Even in Eco, just slower. I can easily do the cliché gramps zooming along with 50rpm and a stone face.
The Fazua Ride 50 Trail demands your share of the power at high cadence, pushing my HR often higher than on the acoustic gravel bike💪🏼
Would be interesting to go to the next level and test the ranges of each of these bikes. I think there's a segment of riders that want to know how long can I ride this emtb comparatively?
Im interesting more for distance capabilities than torque and power😃🤟
Been watching a lot of your videos for the past year or so it looks like you're getting in better shape Steve testing all these bikes.
How about heart rate ? It's important to understand the amount of effort you were putting in each bike.
Same heart rate Tiago
If kilograms and seconds matter, then yes go buy a lightweight emtb. However so few riders I know care about those externalities - it’s all about the quality of the ride and climbing capability. I outride much better riders of SL’s on my full fat Levo. And anyone who’s ridden full fat quickly becomes addicted to power climbs (climbing is the “black”)
Climb is the necessity, coming back down is what matters...
Why was the 2023 Orbea Rise left off of this list? It is probably the best of the LW EMTBs.
Your one of my favorite channels, thanks for rocking the vids. Not to upset, but I think the Orbea Rise would have blown them all away. If I was to buy an ebike on a diet, I would get the new transition or kenevo sl. I'm all about gnarly downhills.
Thanks for kind words! It's on for next time Thim.
Great video. I have a 2019 Levo - 500Whr battery and recently rode with mates who were on gravel bikes (fire roads and bitumen). The ride was just under 70km and 1000m of climbing. With kit I'm about 100kg, so no lightweight. I managed to get home with less than 10% battery left. I rode in Eco mode the majority of the time, apart from step sections that needed extra assistance. I would be really interested in the range of these new lighter eMTB's. It would be an epic video for you to have four bikes (riding together so you all keep a similar pace) on test, riding through the country to see how far you get. Once again it would be a bit of fun rather than a scientific test.
Coincidently Specialized is the only Sponsored bike of the ones tested ( look in the description the list of sponsors)
Would have been interesting to have added the Orbea Rise in that test Steve. I have a 2021 Levo SL and absolutely love it. It’s such a sublime ride and so much more nimble on the trails than the heavy, full power bikes.
Yeah its a good point Russel it's on for next time
You could buy the Orbea Rise and the Orbea Rallon and it would still be cheaper than ONE of these bikes ! 😂
@@pcarts232 not in South Africa
hi - nice video. does the Trek Fuel EXE also have an app (phone) to change the motor settings? how do you feel about the 50 NM on the Trek Fuel EXE is it enough? have you thought about a Orbea rise M10 or M20 with 60 NM? Is there really much diff between 50NM and 60NM?
If these bikes all support up to a velocity of 25 kph, as long as the bike has the torque to pull the weight up against the hill to that speed then it should stand to reason that a timed test over distance results in very close results. I’d expect that fast ramp-up times to max speed and good line choice (inner vs outer) would make a bigger impact on fast times then torque would.
Another great informative Video Stevie! Interesting that the Specialized, with lower numbers, beat the other bikes out! Not sure which way the market will go with lightweight eBikes but it's always interesting! my eBike is full power with 160Nm and 1100 Whr Battery....she weighs north of 50 lbs though even with my ENVE wheel set, XX1 components with wireless. Thanks for all the info on these eBikes!
Thanks Larry!
@@stevejones7956 I 'm getting to really enjoy the EMBN crew! You guys are funny and entertaining! It's great hearing about your experience in all the different aspects of being MTB'ers! I find your posts entertaining and beneficial to learning as well! Keep up the great work.... Incorporating your wonderful gear as well. Got a EMBN Jersey, now waiting to get Two EMBN Beanies!! Also placed an order for your cool enameled Coffee Cups! Cheers!
@@Magoo71 Awesome, nice one Larry!
Nice Spesh add, well Specialized do have a few they need to shift before the new version arrives!
Would be good to know the battery percentage left on each bike after the rids
I ride a Fantic XF1, 2021with a Brose motor 85Nm but only 250w so i guess that's a very efficient motor. It's really fun to ride up steep tech; summer on the Coronet ski field and the Queenstown Gondola bike parks is a ton of fun. Taking the gondola is 20 quid, riding up takes 20 min not bad for 400m 1300ft vertical.
Can you tell us what tyres you used? (Maxxis obviously) but good to know as looking to swap out mine.
Ever made a test comparison for the noise level? Which motor is the quietest? Thx
It also depends on how the manufacturers determine their torque specifications. You really need to independently verify their numbers.
Suspension effects too
If you buy the entry trek exe it has the same frame and motor as the one Steve rides but it’s 1K less than the Levo, going on how the bike looks I’d say the pivot then the trek, I’m still waiting for a few other bike brands to enter the SL range before I seriously consider an sl ebike
Now try the test with the bikes in their natural habitat, off-road on a steeper, technical climb. Thats where the more powerful lighter eebs shine over the weaker ones. Especially the Fazua motor in turbo let me climb pretty much all the same steep techny stuff (especially in the lunatic mode) as my full powered bike. As you mention, the benefit of the lighter bikes over heavier full fat models are really felt on flowy and downhill trails though. They are just way more agile, playful and fun.
The super steep stuff I climb needs 20-30 seconds, not 12. We have these long fireroads where your heart rate is usually above 165. Is there an abrupt shutdown of power or is it just a tiny bit more power where you won’t notice it go away? How long do you have to wait to use it again?
They mentioned that in the video where they did a test previously on a technical climb, but people complained that rider skill came into the equation too much to keep each run even.
It's a good point on the up. But on the down... id say they were different rather than better boss
@@stevejones7956 True, horses for courses and all that. Let's just say lighter bikes are more suited to riders looking for an agile, playful bike they can move around more easily. Full fat heavier bikes are good for just monster trucking down stuff!
Bit of a head scratcher for me, can’t get my head around how a bike with nearly 50% less power can be faster up that hill. Great to hear the motor acoustics though, I’m a big fan of quiet 👍
I would have liked to see a basic 85NM motor bike thrown in just for laughs.
I dunno if its temporary or what, but my brand new Canyon with Shimano motor is really quiet.
I hear it a little in boost mode going flat out up a hill, otherwise its super quiet. Odd.
@@bradsanders6954 yup, it’s full fat for me all day long. Tested the spectral this year and loved it, proper hooligan bike when the taps are open 😀
At a guess I'd say it is a combination of gears and rider input. The torque of the motor is significantly less than the torque/power of the rider and a change in gear, crank length or wheelsize would easily compensate for the difference between these motors. The test wasn't really scientific, which is fine and Steve freely admitted, and even if it had been scientifically accurate the differences were pretty minimal.
@@DTSquared hi, not sure on the crank lengths for these but steve says there all 29r with same tyres and pressures so I would assume it would have to be a dramatic difference in crank length to make up for the lack of torque on such a short climb. It has to be rider input or possibly Spesh being a partner of the channel 🤔😉
My wife has a Levo SL S-works. I ride an analogue. I occasionally ride her bike. It has enough power for her to ride with me on analogue. I have ridden levo SL with a couple of other guys riding full power e bikes, I can keep up ( obviously a bit fitter than those full power riders) except on long straight uphill fireroads.
Also, the levo SL is the only bike that you can travel with on plane and take the extender battery after removing main battery ( trek exe 160 wh battery coming soon). For me this was a critical factor in which e bike to buy. Maximum battery size that you can travel on plane with is 160Wh.
Using the extender battery only in eco with maximal conservation of battery in mind I have done 3hr20, 45km and 1438 elevation.
Where is that tarmac hill? Would be fun try out ? 9:43
Not what I expected either. However, I have ridden the 2023 Trek EXe to compare its power against my 2020 Levo SL and was not impressed by its power delivery...even though the Battery Health on my 30 month old SL is down to 93% (per Turbo Studio software at dealer; not, my Mission Control app which still says 100%).
Great to watch, so many variables though. next time try a trail center, a test riding up & downhill would be nice. I'm still very happy with my Kenevo SL., There's nothing out there yet, that I would swap it for. I'm patiently waiting on Specialized releasing their new SL bikes next year. IMO they are still the leading brand that everyone is trying to keep up with. WATCH THIS SPACE.
Unless there's a standardised torque test for these motors the manufacturer numbers mean nothing at all in isolation.
Was the mic in the camera active? I can hear someone's breath other than Steve's in the sections where he is speaking in a stopped position. Back to the topic, I own a normal Levo and more than one I questioned if I should have gone for the SL version instead.
How much effort were you putting in?
Tried to watch the full video but....couldn't be arsed......😂
yep, so range would be next, how much power or range do the higher power ones suck out of the battery vs the other
All Quiet on the TQ front, all the others sounded like noisy wound motors...
35 NM? That's what the TQ makes?
@@bradsanders6954 50
4:08 - no it figuratively takes off. You don't look like you're flying to me.
physical limitations are important, but would say the calibration of the motor is what makes the biggest difference. That and the fact the bafang is always a bit over-rated anyway.
Think the bubble has finally burst on the absolutely outrageous prices of these bikes. A lot of places have 10% off them (they're still ridiculously overpriced at that) but there have been no sales on them at all since COVID.
Have you done kenevo vs kenevo sl challenge?
Easily assembled. Seem to be high quality for such ...
what was different in the sound set upon this video, sounded very hollow at the start and could hear some heavy breathing
Bring the new SCOTT lumens once you get one 😉
300watts / (90 rev/min * 2pi rad/rev / 60 s/min) = 31.83nm with no friction
battery is the heart of ANY ebike…some cells perform much better under heavy loading.
These comparisons don't mean anything (except the entertainment) if you keep excluding your own power :)
calculations based on total system weight and total system power:
90kg, 10%, 10km, 135w = 120.91 minutes
100kg, 10%, 10km, 150w = 120.86 minutes
10 kilogram difference, but only 15 watts needed to overcome. Are you telling me a 200 watt motor is more powerful than 400 watt motor? even with 10kg difference?
But, Steve, which would you have , full fat or light weight.
The Orbea Rise has to be one of the best selling lightweight emtb's. Where was it?
Miss the Orbea!!!!!!
Where’s the orbea rise ?????
Couldn't agree more
My thoughts exactly 💯
You missed the orbea rise 🙄
power meter and heart rate ... please Steve .
Ummmm. I have a Forestall and an eZesty with a ride 50 motor. The Forrestal monsters the eZesty in power and speed to the limiter. I have a friend with a Levo SL and he needs turbo to keep up with me at half power of the Forestal. The only downside of that bike is the motor is the noisiest of the bunch. I have no idea how you got the times so close….
Not sure about the weight test guys...to me, this is a really good acoustic test of all the different motors. TQ wins once again.
What does the TQ win? It makes the least amount of power doesnt it? But its quiet.
@@bradsanders6954 technically speaking (just based on numbers) it makes more power than the Levo. I was referring to the noise it makes, it's the quietest. It's a personal preference when it comes to ebike acoustics.
I don’t have a bike at the moment so hire and have now hired A LOT of the current ebikes.
For me they keep missing the point of light weight. Full fat bikes are fun uphill but just too heavy to ride properly. These bikes win to be because of how they handle, I never understand why Steve never talks about that.
They offer plenty of assistance making you able to do more but handle properly like normal bikes and with it are just more fun to ride.
I agree 100%! I recently got a levo and do absolutely love it. However, I still ride my pivot switchblade and love how much more playful it is on the same trails. It pops off anything without effort.
I have come to realize I need an SL. I might wait another year though to see what specialized will put out. Not sure but that shuttle SL is the bike I drool over currently. Love a go on one to feel that dwLink under my feet!!
The only way this makes sense if if the advertised torque and power specs are not accurate. It's done in power tools all the time so it makes sense for it to be that way with an ebike. Someone needs to conduct a test of ACTUAL power specs vs simply believing the advertised specs.
Where is Orbea Rise??
Efficiency and range are the biggest concerns for most people looking at an SL bike. You make reference to this but don't test it!
The nature of electric motor design is that it can only have a relatively narrow power band at which it gets peak efficiency and If you design a motor to be able to put out 400W then chances are you aren't going to be able to have maximum efficiency at the 80-150watt output of eco and trail where most SL riders will spend most of their time.
I've done big rides with fitter riders on full power bikes with batteries twice the size of my Levo SL and ended up towing them up the last climb after they have run out of juice. A difference that is almost certainly entirely down to this efficiency band.
are you serious ? 30 sec test? it would take at least 15 km to get a real picture
Imi ! Thank you so much !!
Where's the orbea rise
For thouse who need 35 Nm ,they also have the power for a normal bicycle. Ergo: You don't need it. This is a dead end on the part of the manufacturer (Specialized)
Unpopular opinion: I like the weight of my Megawatt; the amount of extra grip compared to my carbon normie Vitus Sommet outweighs any of the imaginary downsides.
Now do a light Vs heavy, Frey Beast is gonna be top....
There is no better motor than the Rocky Mountain Dyname,... Proof me wrong!
Obviously there's a market for these bikes with less power, and some less weight. They still aren't light, they aren't cheap if you get the good one. They don't have the range if the battery is small and light.
My Canyon has the basic 85 NM of power, more would be really/really great but would kill the battery.
Less would be less. For me if I'm dragging a motor and battery around it better be doing something good.
Poor show not including the Orbea Rise in this group test.
Rather you than me crossing the road at a blind bend like that at the top of your hill. Are there really never any cars coming round?
Karen
@@paulj5975 sticks and stones and so on. Cars coming the other way break bones too.
off course who else could win this comparison ;) there is always one winner - the sponsors ;)
Can this test be more subjective.. your not even measuring your pedaling watts. Specialized probably won because of the branding alone. Can I suggest you put a set of power pedals on and pedal at a consistent 150 watts as an example.
Every single person I’ve known to purchase one of these light weight versions have returned theirs and converted to a full on fatty. It’s a cool concept but its never fun getting left behind because your bike just doesnt produce the same power/torque.
I was talking to the guys in the trek store about this
The lighter one is lighter but less powerful, doesn't it just kinda cancel itself out?
i have a Levo and a Orbea Rise, i never use the Levo, not once.
Which is why I own an Orbea Rise and programmed the EP8 to 75Nm. Surprisingly, the Rise is faster in a Race up a hill than any of my friends on Full Fat bikes (Rails, Levo, Bullit, Decoy). Yesturday I rode with them and did 4000’ elevation in about 1:50 moving time so we were going full fat pace. Of course I had more of a workout but it does keep up just fine
Has anyone shared the process for unlocking the EP8RS ?
@@RedC63AMG Stunlocker, $33
Least expensive at 7500, come on. Ebikes prices are out of touch for the average person
Orbea Rise????????
Sponsored by Specialized?
So true. Not comparing against the king of the SL (The Orbea Rise) proves that bias...
Shooting the video with iPhone is a little disappointing
Where was the Orbea Rise in a test like this. Its not just doing the challenge, it's how the bike does it. The levo SL is so noisy, I had one for a year even on undulating cross country rides the SL motor has an intrusive whine. Orbea Rise will do anything these bikes will do in a much more relaxed way.
For those of us who really need the subtitles please get a human to review it and not just rely on automation.
These lightweight E-MTB's are just another trick of the brands to get even more money out of your pockets.
Not really, they are just offering a different kind of riding experience, which riders who like some power for the climbs but still want to have a light playful bike everywhere else have been asking for, for years. You do need to be fitter to ride a lightweight bike though, so it's an as yet unanswered question if the market size is big enough to absorb this volume of lightweight eebs, especially at these high end prices, which older, wealthier people are more able to pay, however they are usually also less fit.. Let's see. Personally i love the choice we get now, and have fun on both lightweight and full powered eebs.
It's a really useless test to be honest if we don't have anything to compare to.
Oh no, not Jones. Turn off.
I’m calling BS. I love your show genuinely but I often get concerned about the influence of add money when doing reviews. This video is an example of that influence. As a consumer some of us can’t ride every bike and we educate ourselves through respected sources like yours. You guys have the resources to do testing that are thorough and scientific. I should not be able to find better produced and knowledgeable information from one person UTuners . Love your channel but today I am disappointed.
What you need to know? Fire away....
Who is that breathing like they are about to kick the bucket in the background?????
The guy that pushed up-hill during the Levo SL test 🤣