Trek Rail vs. Trek Fuel EXe - “Which Should I Pick?”
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- čas přidán 10. 12. 2022
- “If you had to pick between the full power Trek Rail or the lighter Trek Fuel EXe, which would you choose?” “What’s the difference in battery range?” “How many miles can I go?” These questions, and many like them, are some of the most frequent inquiries in our CZcams comments section, DMs, and emails. Whether it is a question about the Specialized Levo vs Levo SL, Pivot’s Shuttle or Shuttle SL or even the Orbea Rise vs Orbea Wild, we figured this head-to-head test between the Trek Rail vs the Trek Fuel EXe would be at least a good starting point to helping present information and our thoughts on which bike we would prefer, and why.
When it comes time to answering these questions, we often reply to the inquiry with questions of our own. Some of those questions are: Do you as a rider, want a bike that is lighter and more playful, but will not go as far, or would you sacrifice the light weight and playfulness for the ability to ride further, or ride the same distance as a lightweight eBike faster? Do you want to reach sections of trail you would never have been able to before or do you want to ride your usual loops just a bit quicker? Some folks prioritize self-shuttling themselves up the steepest climbs as fast as possible to maximize downhill laps, like Drew for example. Other riders, like Sean, would rather go slower on the climbs or shorter distances under power, but have a more lively and “mountain bike” experience that comes with a lighter eMTB.
To test our theories and review which bike we would pick, we took our Trek Rail and Trek Fuel Exe to our local test loops to see what our differences in range would be and which bike we liked riding more. The goal with this experiment was to see how many laps we could finish before the battery dies and how much time it took to drain them and combined that with our downhill lap times and perceived “Feel” of how fun each bike was. We rode both bikes exclusively in Turbo/Boost mode, because we are about that #allboostallthetime life.
THE DETAILS
TREK RAIL 9.9 XX1 AXS
Motor: Bosch Perf. CX Smart
Torque: 85nm
Battery Size: 750wh
Bike Weight: 51.9 lbs
Travel: 150/160mm
Price: $13,799
TREK FUEL EXe 9.9 XX1 AXS
Motor: TQ HPR50
Torque: 50nm
Battery Size: 360wh
Bike Weight: 41-lbs
Travel: 140/160mm (upforked from 150mm)
Price: $13,999
THE TRAIL
Miles per lap: 2.3miles
Elevation: 868ft per lap
Climb Terrain Type: Steep Singletrack / Steep-Steeper Fire road | loose, rocky over hardpack
Descent Terrain Type: Steep, loose over hard pack / shale stone
THE RESULTS
We have had both the Rail and Fuel EXe in our test fleet for a long time, so we will be using our personal experiences over a wide variety of terrain to speak to the feel of the bikes while also using this particular range test as the data for our takeaways from the test period we have had. Each lap on this test loop has a mix of flat, higher speed singletrack, some tighter, more technical singletrack as well as steep and ultra-steep fire road tech. Once at the top all routes down are very steep, loose, and chunky rock singletracks with plenty of obstacles and tight switchback turns.
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“Natural +” experience vs. “Super Hero”
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I have experience with both (3 months on Rail 9.7 XT and 1 month on Fuel EXe 9.8XT).
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2023 Trek Fuel EXe = the more ‘natural+’ experience…
In comparison, the Fuel EXe is the more lively mountain bike experience with a nearly imperceivable assist. What do I mean… the motor is so quiet and the power delivery can be set to be so smooth (progressive/non peaky) that you really can’t tell you’re getting assistance when riding - as you would with full fat emtbs. And to this point, you fly under the radar because most people don’t know you’re riding an emtb. I only know at the end of the loop that I finished about 15%-20% faster than my acoustic MTB. I am about as tired and nearly as fulfilled as when riding my acoustic Top Fuel bike (‘18 9.8XT SL). And it’s just not the same with the Rail.
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2022 Trek Rail 9.7 XT = the ‘Super Hero’ experience
With the full fat emtb there’s no question I’m getting assistance with motor sound that accompanies big boosts of power. There’s no hiding the fact you’re riding an emtb and the power has you feeling like a superhero, arguably, at the cost of agility and tactile feedback - not to mention some possible ridicule. It’s true that you can power up and over most anything in a tank-like approach. Although the weight and power can certainly help at times, you need to choose your line a bit more in advance and have less ability to make mid-corner/mid-move adjustments because of that extra weight and momentum you’re carrying. The end result… you finish the same loop 35%-40% faster than an acoustic bike along with quite a different experience. Yes, I’m still tired (if I’m pushing it) and yes it is a thrill to run at faster speeds, but it is a feeling that is just not as natural or as layered when compared to the acoustic bike or the new Fuel EXe.
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I love all three bikes and their distinctly different personalities. Depending who I’m riding with and depending on where I’m going, I’ll choose the right bike for the occasion but the reality is, going forward, for my 50+YO body I’ll likely pick the EXe for most my riding opportunities.
Thank you for sharing! This will certainly help others in their process too.
Nice comparison. I typically ride 1 to 2 hrs every other day. I have the Fuel EXe and don't ride in boost very much. After a 1.5 hr ride still have around 45% battery left in trail mode. I don't normally group ride so the Fuel fits my needs perfectly.
I think the fuel exe is a great bike for someone that struggles with the climbs riding with your buddies that don’t ride e-bikes. You guys make some great points for choosing either bike. Keep up the great content!
Thanks very much! It’s all preference
I think most people saying they want a sl ebike haven’t spent much time on either. I have had a rise, wild, Moterra, and a haibike. I liked the rise, but didn’t really see the point. Honestly, my xc bike feels just as fast when I am going race pace. To me the perfect ebike is full power, longer travel enduro sled, that way I can use it on my recovery days, and ride it up without thinking about how heavy it is. Then smash some sweet high elevation trails and get some good bike handling practice in-which would be impossible in a regular bike, since climbing would take me out of my desired hr/power zones.
I think some people, including me, prefer the ride quality being closer to an mtb. Overpowered is fun, but not everyone wants to hear the engine, feel like they’re being pushed forward, etc.
@@jcblebowski I agree with you. Definitely to each their own but I don’t have rest days and I don’t monitor heart rate zones. I just want to ride a fun ebike that feels a close to regular MTB as possible. I have a full power EP8 eMTB and will never have one again, these SLs like the EXE and the Shuttle SL are what I want.
Cant agree more. I have also non e mtb… no range limitations. Full power is for me also for recovery or full blast, constant downhill, even its uphill 😁
As a heavier rider...I like my full power giant. I think over 200 lbs would suit a half power bike.
Where are those trails?
I've had an EXe for about three weeks now. I was just looking for an alternative for my Jekyll that would give me more time at shuttle-less bike parks. I found that and more. The EXe just makes a day on the bike more fun on any trail. The killer climbs are now less killer and I can enjoy the overall ride more now that I don't have to stop for a dry heave at the top! I'm keeping the Jekyll but love what the EXe offers.
the problem with e bikes is i got sick of it making things easy, i bought a gravel bike 5 months ago and im riding it so much that my e bike hasnt been out in 5 months, maybes the less power e bikes is something i should look at, doing 30 miles on a full powered e bike and not feeling satisfied is why i got a gravel bike, best thing i done, few mates have bought a one as well
@@megane230f1 yes this why i never switched , but getting older now and trying to keep up with my teenage son, I would like to have some assist while keeping the same feel, I think I am going to get the EXE
If you could only have one bike maybe the sl, but if it’s an additional bike being added to an acoustic counterpart I think the full power makes sense. I count myself blessed to have a ripmo and a ransom 920 e-ride makes time constraints for quick afterwork laps 100% worth it, in fairness while I appreciate the climb it’s not the reason I ride bikes so full power made sense for me.
My own reason why I bought a light emtb was that I oftentimes want to absolutely destroy myself physically, get a really good workout and after that just have the motor to help me get home again. Using the full fat emtb, I've always used Eco, apart from very steep uphill sections, but never really needed the full range of the battery. So now, if I want to just have fun on an off day, I use the full fat bike, otherwise the light one. :)
I already own a 9.8XT rail from 2021 and really enjoy it! I did a few rides with a buddy on his Specialized Kenevo SL this summer at Sandy Ridge in Oregon and he was working very hard to keep up while I was chilling and going faster on the climb. I also have a Slash which I ride most of the time. I feel like the full power is the best option if you have a trail/enduro non e-bike as well. If you can only have one bike the Fuel Ex E seems like it would rock. Both are awesome and in the end just get out and ride whatever you have! Happy trails!
Thanks for sharing your experience and good vibes!! It’s all about fun isn’t it!
Having same equip and totally agree :) Slash for bikeparks and riding with folks and Rail for solo rides after work when time is factor.
Run my Levo Expert 700 WH dialed down to 25%, 40% and 55% full power. Usually ride low and medium setting on a 25 mile, 3300 ft total elevation ride, Rarely go under 50% power remaining. No range anxiety and plenty if I go 30+ miles east coast rocks and roots.
Great video, thanks for making it! You guys made good stuff. It matters a lot who you ride with and what they have. If your riding friends have full-powered e-bikes then you better as well.
Great vid, when customers come into the shop trying to decide on a "full gas" or "half eb", we tend to ask them "what does your group or friends ride?" unless there is a huge fitness difference or a medical reason this is where we start.
I just picked up a Fuel EXe the other day. Coming off a YT Decoy. The power of the Trek is more than enough for me. I basically want an e-bike to take the edge off of long climbs or super steep pitches that don't have the power to make it up otherwise. I usually don't ride with other e-bikers either. The full power of the YT is nice, but the stealth factor of the Trek is necessary where I live. I'll probably pick up the extended or 2nd battery for the Trek at some point for when I'm on trips and will be riding father than normal. I also plan on having the Trek as my only bike. I had paired a Canyon Spectral 29 with the YT and I hope I can cut down to a single MTB (still haven't committed to selling the Canyon, the the YT is gone).
Awesome intel and thanks for sharing. The stealthy EXe is a definite plus
How does the EXe ride compared to the Spectral 29? The geometry doesn't seem too dissimilar for the size large, so i suspect that the main difference will be weight. I currently have a Spectral 29 and I'm looking at getting an EXe to complement it.
We just bought a EXe for my wife, only one ride so far, snow here in Idaho. Im guessing a range extender will be our next purchase. Her previous two bikes were turbo levo's. I ride a non e-bike (Ibis ripley). She can go any of my hard rides and thats been so great. My friends often leave their wives home and mine gets to in these big epic rides. So cool! We also ride double track climbs with my 89 year old Dad on his Levo. On these rides I have to say I feel pretty lucky to ride as hard uphill as I want with my two favorite people. Total game changer for us! So many ways to use these e-bikes.
That’s awesome to hear and thanks for sharing.
Thanks for the comparo Power vs Weight....Very interesting conclusions...I own a full power eBike but the weight is a handful on steep rocky descents....I gotta find some Flow trails in Nor Cal for sure...
Really useful review thanks guys. I live in a hilly city and with a few aches and pains now, I think this lighter full suspension Exe would be a great city recreation bike.
Our pleasure! Glad you enjoyed it.
I have both bikes and have done a lot of back to back comparisons. In my case I have a new Rail 9.8 GX AXS and a Fuel EXe XT. I ugraded the fork on the EXe to a 160mm Factory 36 and the shock to an X2. I'm 200lbs and ride a lot. You guys did a good job of describing the differences in the bikes but I don't think that you highlighted some of the more important ones. While the EXe is definitely lighter, I find it way slower in most terrain, especially downhill. You guys do mention the fact that the weight of the Rail makes it feel more planted but, for me, that would have been a key topic of discussion as there's a lot to it. The EXe has raised the bar as far as SLs go but if I could only have one bike it would 100% be a full fat. In this case the Rail hands down. It wouldn't just be because of my time or the range. However, if you're a die hard mountainbiker I could see the draw of the EXe as it does feel very natural but that might only be applicable to a very small percentage of ebikers.
Thank you very much for sharing. Good points
Hi, if you have a sec, I got a quick question. I'm 200lb as well. I ride 10-20 mile a day maybe 500-1k feet . During Covid I couldn't find anything and ended up with a boutique bike from Luna Cycle (OEM) called a Z1 Enduro. A China Carbon frame with a Bafang Ultra 160nm motor, with mid range RockShock and SRAM.
It's got 3k problem free miles on it. And was was pretty cheap at $5k or so! My question is, I've been looking at a Rail 9.8xt.. The Rail is 29" while the Luna is 27.5. Batterys are on par while the Luna is 50lb. As a 200lb rider with both bikes, would you recommend upgrading to a Rail or keep the Luna and add the ExE? Ie.. Is the exe worth the money and is it strong enough to give a min of 10miles a day? Thx in advance..
now why is the exe slower going downhill?
It’s been a long time and I don’t have either bike anymore but, for me, the Rail felt more planted and that little bit of extra suspension makes a difference. The Rail is not the best riding bike that I ever had but I was able to push it really hard with confidence. Probably because of the extra travel, longer wheelbase, slacker head angle, heavier duty tires, and extra weight.
@@thomassobelman8350 yes getting air is not my thing I am 42 a overweight lol but i can keep up just want a bike for the flatlands where i live that will let me push it some too and do great on slopestyle downhill, I was leaning torwards exe but you have mentioned a few things that these dudes really did not do a good job of comparing these bikes at all, makes me really guess their true knowledge of bikes in general, thank you
All the folks in my crew have made the jump to e-bikes and I'm trying to avoid it for a bit longer... but that EXe does look pretty sweet/
As soon as you make the jump, you’ll question why you waited so long and wish you would have done it years ago. It is so much more fun, and you can get as hard of a workout as you want depending on how much assist from the motor. Good luck.
I demo’d both and ended up going with the Fuel EXe. I live in Saint George, UT. The trials here and they way I ride is more enjoyable on the EXe. The Rail is a blast but not as playful due to the weight. I just took my fork out to 160 mm prior to my last ride and I’m wanting to get more rides in, but think I found the sweet spot.
How is the e-bike crowd down there in StG?
@@hubsessed I'm not sure. I've only had mine a couple of weeks and I've only gone solo or with buddies that have regular MTB's
@@hubsessed a lot of bikes. full power and sl
I pick rail even before watching any of this.
Two different tools for two different jobs. The choice is very much terrain and rider dependent
Acoustic is still the way for me @62.
Fitness, social (riding we friends) and having fun on the downs is where it’s at for me.
Plus i don’t have the higher operating / maintain cost an e-bike brings.
Acoustic guys acoustic.
Thanks for sharing!
Yup I said that too, then at 64 had a knee issue, so with the Fuel Exe I'm back on the trail.
@@rjahn3000 I'm thinkin the same thing.. I have the fuel 8 but torn meniscus and hernia making me rethink things..
still loving my ransom eride !! building some we are one strifes for it ,finally got a couple vids of it on my channel , I am 60 years old and still ride downhill park most of the summer
Great video, mate! i have been thinking about the Fuel EXe and one question that came into my mind just now is about the motor activation speed when going through rough terrain and rocky / tech areas up hill. How does it activate? There are moments when you let the bike roll and suddenly you need the max torque to climb things. How is it efficiency on such moments? Thanks
I LOVE my Rail 7, especially after upgrading the suspension and switching to the Kiox system
I did the same thing with my 2022 rail 7 did fox 38 front and kiox display and carbon Nukeproof 38mm rise handlebars. Such a great platform.
@@jerremyvinson6310 Why the change to the bars?
@@dougcronkhite2113 the reason for the bar change is to bring them up slightly to fit me better. Also bringing them up and back slightly gives me better control downhill. This puts more weight backwards. It’s supposed to be not as good for uphill but with an ebike I couldn’t really tell the difference at all doesn’t effect my climbing. On flat it’s more comfortable and downhill it’s way better.
Fuel exe imo. Its a complete bike. Or would just wait. Im sure they will soon release trek slashE next year. Imagine Trek slashE 9.9.. Since fuel exe small invisible motor got praised. Moderate assistance and amazing looking bike. So im sure something like that will be done with trek slash lineup. Small motor for climbs and crazy downhill.That would be a godlike bike.
I got a lot of useful info from this video to decide if I should buy a Rail. My usual mtb loop includes riding from home. When I'm finished with the dirt it is descending and some level on pavement. The EXE range, in the video, gives me a good idea that I would run out of battery by the time I finished the last climb out to pavement. I'd buy the EXE because the assist would help me save energy getting to the dirt and I would have an easier time pedaling home without assist. The Rail would be to much e-bike for my routine mtb loop.
Awesome glad to hear it helped!
They both have their place. I think light ebikes are great if physical limitations see you keep getting left behind by your friends on acoustic bikes, or if you personally dislike the ride characteristics of full power ebikes but all your friends have upgraded to e-bikes so you've got no choice.
In all other circumstances, so long as you don't mind the extra weight and wider q-factor (don't forget that's also a notable difference between TQ/Fazua and Bosch/Shimano motors) of a full power e-bike then you might as well enjoy the extra range and power.
Good points.
Personally I think the 625w is the goldilocks size for me anything bigger is carrying around unnecessary weight. I have the rail 9 and absolutely love it and am so impressed with the efficiency and range. I looked at the fuel exe but when you consider the trade off for a few kilos I don't see the point I'd rather get a superlight xc trail bike as a 2nd ride.
Totally agree
I carry an extra power tube with my Fuel EXe, so i have 720Wh total.😊
I think the full power is the way to go. The sl bike is so dependent on bike weight, and rider weight. So putting burly components or larger rider will struggle to tell it’s an ebike. Full power e-bikes you can build out super durable and it doesn’t really impact range or feel. Plus full power e-bikes are super fun to ride on gnarly trails because the weight allows you to carry momentum and just smash through.
Is a full-power heavy e-bike less fun in terms of playfulness and maneuverability compared to a lighter e-bike? I kinda want something that feels like a regular mountain bike. In an ideal world you could have one light e bike and one full power for bigger days
There are some full power ebikes, like the SCOR 4060, that are plenty playful and maneuverable like regular bikes. But they are few and far between. Give it another year or so, and we will likely see the bigger battery weight go down a bit more.
@@Montezuma0 the new Orbea Wild is light compared to most full power ebikes, and has newest bosch motor and 750wh battery.
Thanks for a great honest review! Did only one lap at my local bike trail centre (steep rocky terrain) with the fuel exe had only 40% battery left... Thats around 1500ft of climbing. Much rather stick to my trek rail and my analogue bike which will never run out of battery. Also descending on the fuel exe is not nearly as fun as descending on my analogue bike.
Thanks for your input!
Im working on a long term review for my channel "Duffy Rides" as well (SL vs Full batt ebikes ) . I've ridden both the Levo SL and the Levo many times and for me I will take the SL version 80% of the time because I prefer a natural mountain bike experience with the ability to pop off random obstacles on the trail. I think if you are like me, then the SL is for you. However if you like to stay planted to the gorund and just plow, the full sized ebikes won't have you missing much and offourse you will have all the power and range to go with it. Ride conditions , riding style , and personal preferences need to be factored in and are unique to everyone. And for these reasons I agree that it's hard to recommend one bike over the other to someone new to ebikes.
I have a 21' Rail 7 and it's a fun bike but lately the motor has been making a lot of noise on the descents. It's sounds like something is spinning out of control. No problems on the climbs though. I actually enjoy riding my Santa Cruz Tallboy more so I might end up selling the Rail.
Thanks for this. Kind of knew the outcome. I agree with MT FlowRider that if your buddies don't have an emtb and they aren't snobs and accept you for having a emtb light then the EXE is great. The next comparison is the SL's with Rise, Shuttle SL, EXE and Spesh SLs.
We're working on it. There's a handful of SLs not mentioned that we want to get too to do a proper roundup. Hoping to make it happen in the coming months.
While I appreciate the work you've done here, I'm not sure how much I can transfer this information into my riding style.
I'm looking at getting my first e-bike. I'm 70 and live on the Wasatch Back in Utah. A typical ride climbs 3000' and then descends 3000'. I don't have a time constraint, so a 3-hour ride is no problem. I don't need to get up that 3000' faster, I just need to get up there at a lower average heart rate. It sounds like you're just going as fast as possible, using all available motor torque + what you can generate, whereas I might use 20NM of leg torque +20NM of motor torque. I'm guessing under those conditions you could get more elevation change in lower power than in full turbo. But maybe not, so, what's your take on that? Also, I tend to like solitude and ride alone, or with my 32 Y.O. son who is on a Ripmo. My inclination is to go the Exe route.
I got the Fuel EXE and live in the Atlanta metro area. 80%+ I’m riding local trails for under 2 hours. So far, this bike has been absolutely perfect. So stealthy that nobody evens knows it’s an e-bike. If I was going to Kanuga more than 6 times a year I’d consider a full power. For longer rides I plan on using the range extender but so far the range has been more than enough.
Bingo! I, too like the fact that the Fuel EXe is very stealthy in terms of NOT LOOKING like a full powered e-bike with their large downtube and a noisy/whiney motors.
How did your EXE handle Kanuga?
Great video. At 220 lbs and not super-fit, it's an easy decision for me, Rail all day long. I could see it being a tough decision for lighter, more fit people who ride alone.
Thanks so much for sharing and glad it was helpful to you.
Good comparison. Something that wasn’t covered: what if the majority of your rides involve some hike-a-bike? That’s one reason I sold my full power and bought a Fuel EXe. Secret trail entrances, clear cut, down trees, “adventure climbing” all go much easier. The lighter weight is also a huge bonus on descents. Last thought on range: a Fuel EXe with TWO batteries (720wh) is still 7-10lbs lighter than a comparable full power eBike.
Would say: heavier riders are probably a better fit on the bigger motor. And “boost life” is a thing!🎉
Great point. Just bought a EXe for my wife and considering the range extender. Maybe another battery is a better option. I wonder how much an extra battery weighs? Her previous two bikes were turbo levo's. I ride a Ibis ripley. She can go any of my hard rides and thats been so great.
I found my full power rail bombs down hill way better than any analog bike I've ever rode.
These bikes are getting pretty awesome... But I kinda feel like they are gen 1 tech... I think the bikes that are going to come out ~5 years from now are going to make these bikes look like mountain bikes from the 2000s to us.
That plus none of my local trails allowing them makes it a hard sell for me to buy one right now.
They’re already come so far but yes, 5 years from now is going to be amazing!
For me, having a heart rate at 120 means I’m sandbagging! My typical e-bike rides live in the 160 to 170 for the majority of the ride, and up in the 175 to 180 on the steepest longest pitches.
Same
Haven't bought an eMTB yet, but a buddy and I are looking at making a purchase next spring, and this is the exact battle we find ourselves in. Yesterday we had the opportunity to do a short demo on Scott bikes, the Lumen and the Patron. We both very much preferred the weight and feel of the Lumen vs the tank of the Patron, but we're having trouble answering the question as to what is best for us to commit to. Him and I normally ride together weekly, occasionally we have a few others with us, one is on a full eMTB and others are on acoustic/amish bikes, but since they don't ride with us regularly, we're only considering each other when making our choice.
Majority of our rides, getting in 1.5-2hr rides, a bike like the EXe seems very suitable and capable. But we also want to take advantage of longer rides, particularly when we go ride trails that are 2+ hour drives away from our house, we want that 4 hour round trip of driving worth it. Perhaps a range extender is all we need, but then there are a couple mountains we wish to ride where having the full would be a significant benefit not having any range anxiety.
All in all, perhaps we're looking for unicorn, a bike that lands right in the middle. A lower powered motor or a full powered motor with 450-500Whr battery to offer some weight savings vs the larger 650, 750, or 900+, ad din the option of a range extender, and I think that provides the benefits of both worlds.
That's a constant struggle we have been finding ourselves in as well. In the current ebike market, it sort of a give / take with what you want and have to make concessions somewhere. If you've seen one of our newest Dissected video, on the new Giant Trance X Adv. Elite, that might be up your alley. It a full power emtb with a smaller battery, putting it at 44 pounds (rides lighter) and you have the option of boosting the range with their extender getting you closer to standard full-power emtbs. Another year or two and we should start seeing battery technology change, helping increase range while dropping weight, atleast, that is what we are hoping for.
Interesting. I own both Rail 9.7 (625w) at 53 lbs and Fuel EXe 9.7 (360w) at 43 lbs. I weigh about 205 lbs geared up and range/battery life about the same, if not a tad more on Fuel EXe. I ride only on Tour (occasionally ECO) on Rail and mix climbing ECO/Trail on Fuel EXe. I like the more “natural” feel of riding/pedaling on Fuel EXe at places where more trail riding. If banging DH laps with crappy access road climbs like at Cline, then Rail for me. Also, despite the only 10mm difference in travel, I have found the Rail a more forgiving ride and seems more active suspension to me. Fuel EXe a lot firmer/sportier ride (good at Madras) that doesn’t feel as compliant and better on mostly hard packed, flow style trails to me. Really is nice to have both I say and hopefully much less strain on Rail that has taken a beating over past
Did Trek pay for all the stuff that failed? How much have you paid out of pocket for all the stuff that is filled or worn out and the two years you've written the bike? It seems like that's a lot of stuff to fail on a bike, and in only 2 years. How long did it take them to fix the bike each time and get it back to you? thank you
Yes all covered by Trek. Time waiting for parts was variable to each failure. 4-8 weeks average. Why you keep a back up bike ready I say. Two ebikes and 2 regular bikes is my go-to now so no time without rides. While waiting last episode, I was on my regular exclusively for almost 8 weeks. Trek always went above and beyond to take care of me each incident, just had to wait at times
Since I just passed the 2 years since bought bike for Rail, I am likely on my own for any motor/electronic issues that come down the road. Which is fine, since felt I have gotten my money’s worth out of the bike in past two years
I’m older and coming off a stump jumper Sworks. I bought the fuel to get my work in ..
Pretty damn good comparison. Trek Rail all day for me. Glad I own one, absolute beast of a bike. Love it.
I own a Fuel EXe and I have to admit that it is a fun bike to ride. I tried some full power emtb and I hated the response: unnatural and noisy. I have to admit that the range is a little bit on the lower side, therefore, doing my rides and finishing up with 15-20% battery isn't the end of the world as the light weight of the EXe make it so fun and nimble to ride.
I also have to disclose that I am having a few issue with the motor: weird motor response and motor error on peanut butter like short steep incline. Trek is looking into it.
If I was living in the Alps, the Rail will be a no brainer, in the Northwest Pacific Coast range, the Fuel EXe is suuuucccchhhhh a fun bike to have for the good reason that it doesn't behave like an ebike but give you some of the perks of an emtb.
Thank you for sharing
Got my self a rail 7 2 months ago and love it at 63 its given me a whole new riding experience, it seems to hide its weight better than I thought it would and at 69kg and a 625 wthr battery I can have big days riding.The exe battery just not big enough. Most riding on the trails touring is enough with emtb on steep roads
Thank you for sharing and awesome to hear!!
I got an ebike to do those 30mi 5,000ft rides that normally take all day. I find the 750w batteries to be just about right, by the time the battery dies I'm beat and dont really have the energy to do more, so a 900w battery is too much range and too heavy while a 500w battery would leave me needing more. While the lightweight ebikes are probably a lot of fun and ideal for smaller trail systems I wouldnt buy one, a regular bike and a 750w ebike are the best of both worlds where I live.
From last year i was thinking about fuel exe as a choice. But over a year i changed my mind. I think the cx motor on rail is just incredible. You cant go wrong with either, but i prefer rail now after seeing gen 4 rail. Ill probably wait a bit for gen 5 and get that one.
The Bosch CX motor is a good enough reason to buy the Rail, but I'm also interested in the durability and longevity of the TQ motor. Time will tell! The EXE looks sweet either way.
In the comments I get the feeling most commenters are in the camp for smashing down gnarly trails. I'm not sure how big my representative group is but I want to get different things from a ride (plus my skills are lower). It's about an unnecessary manual here, and lean into the corner hard here even though I'm not going that fast, then use an undulation in the trail to go airborne. Repeat over and over until the ride is over. So I don't want a bike that is too much of a handful when I'm trying to manipulate it. This did answer my questions. Yes the exe can go for a fairly long ride, yeah it's easier to manipulate, and yes the power leaves something to be desired.
the Best Bike is the one you are riding!
Which bike to buy and why, Trek Fuel EXe 9.7 or the Specialized Turbo Levo Comp Carbon?
The Rail rocks but the Fuel takes the win by a large margin for me.
Si vous hesitez il y a quand même la question de la préférence esthétique, et là sans débat le EXE est bien plus beau et attirant 👌
I judge eMTBs in comparsion to MTBs not other eMTBs. I want the eMTB that is closest to a MTB while still having the benefits of an eMTB. The 41lb vs 52lb stat is big one for me.
The Fuel EXe is your bike...the medium sized frames weigh 39-40lbs/18.1kg. with Shimano XT drive train & brakes.
On my Rise (also 360wh) I have noticed that if I don't ride in boost, the battery can last more than twice as long. I just use boost in short burst, and I think that's the proper application tbh. Put some work in yourself and have a little help, boosting up everything isn't what these bikes are for IMO.
Same story here on my Fuel EX e I ride in Eco and Trail and only use boost for the super steeps. You can get plenty of time out of that battery.
@@rjahn3000 Good info from both of you!
I will like to see a video comparison between the exe with an Orbea Rise and a Levo SL.
We already have one! Check it out.
@@TheLoamWolf awesome 👍
Nice video!! I’ve tried to find an comparison between the TQ motor and a Shimano Steps e7000. Wouldn’t that be an more interesting comparison? Since they are in about the same power range? @the loam wolf
Where was this place? Nice review!!
Full power long travel Emtb for me...if I wanted a lighter bike, I would stick with my normal bike, range and power is all I care about. Drew, you must test ride that new Orbea Wild which comes at 20.9Kg with big battery and full power motor! Keep up the good work!
Thats where most of our crew is at too. We'll be getting the new Wild here in the next few days for a Dissected Episode / long term review, and really looking forward to smashing some miles it.
@@TheLoamWolf Awesome!
On my mtb journey I went from normal mtb and looking at EBIKE as cheating, after test riding the sl levo, I was instantly impressed, then rode the full fat 90nm levo and thought this is magic, after finding out the brose motor isn't reliable, I bought a trek rail, and 18 month later haven't had a single problem apart from wear and tear, wheel bearings and free hub.
😆 at this cheating stuff
You only cheat in a competition with rules
It depends when and how you started i suppose, I used to see duel suspension as cheating🤣🤣.
I'll be grabbing an exe though
@@bouncinbob1384 same lol
You guys are in OR right? Where do you ride ebikes there? I've heard they're not allowed on most trails there. Especially in the Bend area
I love my turbo levo. My fitness level is pretty good but I have little kids and don't have 3-6 hours to ride. Ride in turbo mode mostly. Uphill is now as fun as downhill. Downhill is still pretty fun and it corners as good as my trail bike. Just can't really bunnyhop and manual because of weight of the bike but can jump and drop with no problem.
I am more interested in fuel exe because I have turbo levo and just want to try lighter bike. But full power eMTBs make more sense to me.
100% agree here- I bought a Turbo Levo because I have a second kid on the way and don’t have as much time to ride. Unbelievable fun and I say more lively than my Bronson.
Full fat baby! I got a rail for similar reasons
I'm selling a Trek Rail in favor of Orbea Rise. One important note, the Trek exe's 50nM in my opinion, is not enough. I have not ridden that bike, but when the Rise is in "Profile 1" at 47nM, I would not buy that bike. Kick it up to 60nM however, and you are now in the "Tour / Emtb" range of the trek rail, which I ride in most often. The fat ebikes are best of exploring new terrain, and plowing downhill. They suck in bike parks, much harder to get airborne and in tight techy stuff I feel the heft holding me back. The pop factor of a lighter bike just makes it more fun. I only ride 1-1.5hrs at a time usually so the smaller battery and lighter bike makes sense for someone like me. I plan to unlock the 2022 Ep8 motor and set boost at 70nm and trail at 60nm. have the spare battery on hand for new terrain or longer rides. Best of both worlds. All hail Boost life! do your thing and get out there !
I have a full powered ebike and have tuned it down. I run all modes at 60nm and the majority of the time in ECO mode. At the full 85nm the bike felt way too over powered and harder to control at times. There are a lot of people saying that the extra weight gives you more confidence? That may be the case for some but it can also be a negative. On the flat you easily hit the limiter and feel the weight. On really chunky aggressive trails the extra weight can also cause the bike to dig in. I am still faster on my Trek Remedy on really chunky downhill sections as it skips over the top more. Full powered bikes are heavy and awkward to get through gates and styes and its something to consider if you ride places that have those features. Overall I think the SL is the right bike for lighter fit riders that dont need or want a huge amount of assistance.
I’m 149 miles new to emtb I’m 62 and my new Husqvarna encourages me to go. I’m liking the workout. I’m learning to control power on tech climbs and enjoying the ass kicking heart rate. ❤❤❤🤖🤖🤖
Heck yeah welcome and welcome to the club!! Thanks for subscribing.
On myFriday ride I covered 19.98 miles, 2878 feet of climbing I use three bars of battery on my Husqvarna which has a 630 watt hour battery I weigh 185 That was in second gear or trail mode I haven’t used turbo much don’t seem to need it. In a time of one hour and 28 minutes 12.6 mph average. on my good old steel full suspension Morano that takes me just over 2 1/2 hours there’s a lot of technical climbing involved, Colorado stuff you know. I’m definitely buying another emtb.
I'm torn between ordering the new Orbea Wild FS 750wh or Rise alu version, which has a respectable 500+wh battery + range extender, 375wh capability, at 60nm those 800+ wh would last a very long time.
Correctionf for the Orbea Rise; It is 540wh for the alu version, and an optional upgrade for the carbon version. The extender is 250wh, so total of 790wh on an sl ebike .
Yes it would and those are very similar offerings to these 2 bikes. Hopefully we have you some food for thought!
Tough decision, however the weight of the new Wild and alloy rise are very close, if I recall correctly, especially if you do end up riding with the extender in the Rise. The value for the rise is hard to beat though, and not at a huge disadvantage power wise.
I've been stoked on Orbea Rise for some time until I took a good look at one on the trail. The rider who owns it had it for about 6 months and the rear rocker moved with the wheel side to side for like 2 centimeters. Also, my brother checked out a couple of new ones in the store and they also had this slack, albeit a smaller one. I find it weird that none of the reviews I've seen mention this, I wonder if they fixed it in the 2023 model.
I have the Rise H. It’s a great bike and the new 2023 M models will be better yet with the 540w battery option. Saying that, if I had the money, I would get the new Wild FS for enduro days and compliment that with either the Fuel EXe or the Pivot Shuttle SL for trail duty.
One of the things I dislike most about riding eBikes is the weight, so bikes like the EXe, (And the Pivot Shuttle) are more appealing. Good thing that the first gen Shuttle was light and had DW link, because it had an absolute trash motor that would go into Can't Even mode if you so much as breathed on the pedals during startup. If the EXe lets you turn the motor on and off while riding, (without throwing a take-me-to-the-shop-because-I-broke-again code,) a judicious rider could stretch that battery.
Motor only activated when pedaling, up to 20mph max assist. Also can turn off /on motor with switch on handlebars.
I just went to trek and noticed the Exe, but i was not convinced with the torque and battery life, i even asked the trek salesman which bike would have the most power and long range, i dont like the other Ebikes cause of the huge batteries! Idk oh well
what is the add on the zeb air chamber? tnx
Definitely full fat emtb for me. I love challenging myself on crazy climbers that you just can’t do on a lightweight
Thanks
I have been on traditional MB for 30 years and I am looking at switching to E. It seems like a lot of your debates here are over battery life. a good portion of us are doing "laps" as you say, so why you hit on some on the speed differences with twice the power on rail, on either bike and mainly speaking on exe, just buy 1 or 2 more batteries, why is it on all these bike review channels none one has the thought of buying more batteries. yes i understand if you are on some long mountain trek, but most of us are on laps and can easily switch batteries at our truck? I believe its the exe for me with a couple extra batteries fellas
I have the Fuel EXE and Levo SL abd the Levo SL has around 20% better range , but the EXE motor is awesome it just uses to much power.
I rarely use boost on my Giant infact I've never used it on the trail. I think the EXe is really my style of bike but if they would just put in a slight bigger battery of make that range extender actually available. I'd be really interested. I love that when the battery is pretty much off you can still pedal it. My Giant when the battery is dead its like I'm dragging a buddy up the hill with me. I'm close to 50 and find my current eMTB just allows me to keep up.
Buy the Range Extender Battery that adds another 160WH for a total of 520 WH. The batteries will last 5-7.5 hours depending how you ride. The Fuel EXe has a walk setting that will assist pushing the bike up a steep hill, too.
Is the Fuel EXE power on level 3 equal to the Rail in Tour mode?
can you ride the Trek Fuel EXE with motor turned off? does the Trek Fuel EXE also have an app (phone) to change the motor settings? how do you feel about the 50 NM is it enough? have you thought about buying a orbea rise m10 or m20 with 60 NM?
You can pedal the EXE with the motor off, I turned it off when it got to about 3% battery because it felt like the bike/motor was working against me. The EXE does also have it's own app that you can customize the assistance levels in each mode.
For power, it really depends. In most instances, I think the 50NM is enough, but there are few times where i wished it had a little more, for example, this test. 60NM would of helped it keep up with the Rail a tad more. We'll circle back around with the Rise question once we get the new one, its been a hot minute since we've ridden an M series Rise. -Sean
@@TheLoamWolf thanks for your reply. when do you get the Rise M series? :)
I turned up all the settings and the EXe is less powerful turned all the way up then the Trek Rail on Eco mode. If I could only have one bike it would be full power hands down, I really didn't like the underpowered feel of the EXe, would rather just ride my regular non ebike at 32 pounds.
If the battery dies completely, can the exe 9.5 still be ridden like a regular bike? It can still shift through the gears? Thank you!
Correct, shifting will be unhindered on the 9.5 since it uses a mechanical derailleur. The 9.9 on the otherhand could potentially face some issues however we’ve been told even with a drained battery you’ll still have something like over a hundred shifts left.
I can answer it for you. I have a Trek Rail... I have two batteries. I can ride all day. I also have a non e-mountain bike, its great for flatter terrain and jib jump etc.or days when I just want to suffer. I;m not a fan of the sl bikes, there's too much compromise. Update, just test rode an EXE. I am a hard pass on the EXE, too underpowered on the motor.
I'm curious what mode on the rail is similar to boost on the EXe? emtb? tour?
Tour is probably closest. If you go to Bosch website you can see what power outputs look like in each mode.
Eco on my Rail feels more powerful than EXe turned all the way up including the settings on the app.
Dad bike (owns a van etc.) vs bike for someone who just wants an easier time climbing (and owns a car they have to lift the bike onto).
Does the Rail also have all the flip-chips like the new Fuel?
Yes it does.
The difference between these 2 seems the same debate over e-bikes vs acoustic bikes to begin with. One is just more of what ebikes are about.
I would love to see a video of a new rider on an older eMTB bike and then on a newer eMTB bike to show that you don’t need to earn 6 figures to start having fun out there. Would a new rider honestly be faster on a new 2023 Trek Rail vs an old used 2020 Powerfly FS 5 when they both push 85Nm? Would the new rider run out of battery on the older used 2020 Trek Powerfly FS 5 with it’s 500Wh battery, compared to a new Trek Rail with either 625Wh or 750Wh battery.
This sort of real world comparison never happens. All we see over and over on every channel is the latest vs the latest, or last year vs this year. But what about comparing an old used eMTB vs the latest? I know the professionals would likely feel the difference, but what about an absolute amateur? Would they feel the difference between a used $2000 bike and the newer $10,000 bike? 🤔
Great idea! We’ll start looking to see what bikes (and rider) we can find around to do a comparison like this!
Another sl to full fat comparison that forgets the riders weight. Not all riders are in the 160-175 pound range. If you are a light person, like most women, a ful fat is a tank. Moreover the power to weight ratio is similar for a 130 pound person on a sl vs a 200 pound on a ff (like it is between my wife and I).
If you want to boost in steep jumps there is no way you can lift and whip a 50 pounder. That's where the lighter e-bikes will shine as there is no tomorrow.
I can feel that normal MTB's will be going the way of the dinosaur. I have a 2021 Slash that I love, but the EXE, with the lack of noise and light weight really makes me consider. I kinda think if I dont sell my Trek Slash now and still can get good money for it, that it will go the way of the Commodore 64 computer. .I also know that with any technology, it moves very fast and the EXE will also be a Dinosaur in 3 years....if im able to still pedal, maybe I should pedal a little longer until the tech levels off.
Using that logic you will be buying a new bike every year
Yeah, I'm 6'2" and 230 pounds, I go for full fatties. Had a levo sl and loved the bike downhill and hated it up. Wish that was my first ebike, but the gen 2 ruined it for me.
You guys test with range extender?
Not yet, we are still waiting for the extender to show up.
@@TheLoamWolf sweet really on the fence about actually getting ebike, but definitely the exe is extremely appealing to me
I am so torn between the Rail and Fuel.
It's a tough one!
@@TheLoamWolf I haven't been on my Enduro bike for close to a year due to a bilateral hip impingement and osteoarthritis. I'm getting kinda tired of gravel riding and I'd like to get back on trails. My usual riding area is tight and rocky tech with lots of short and steep climbs. I've ridden both the Rail and the Fuel but I'm still not sure what's the best choice.
The LOAN WOOF
I just got off the EXE and my SL is so much smoother it way better
What you mean smoother?
Compare ex e to trek e caliber
E-bikes are great
100%!!
This debate is sorta dumb. Rail is cheaper, more powerful, farther range and it's motor and battery will far outlast the Trek Exe motor as you won't be stressing out the batteries and motor on the Rails as you will on the Trek Exe. The only one downside is that the rail is heavier by 2 or 3kgs but honestly, both bikes are still heavy chongers compared to regular MTBs.
What’s SL????
Super light…but really should mean slightly lighter.
10 - 15+ pounds is a little more than slightly...
@@TheLoamWolf thanks everyone. Good to know the jargon. I was thinking the levo but now I know for the future. Whoop
14 000 $ !!!!!!!!!!
It also is to be noted that the EXe has an external battery that replaces your waterbottle cage. +160Wh. Granted its not much but it would have got you up the hill with some to spare. Probably not as much as the 750Wh Rail, still, but close.
I work at a trek shop and to be honest the way it usually goes is, If the client knows they want a ebike, they get the Rail. If they never had a ebike before, or dont really want one, they will usually settle for the EXe.
The way I see it, is if you enjoy riding your bike hard and for many hours at once. You really just need the Rail... EXe wont get you much more than 2 hours on eco with range extender.
Thanks for sharing Kyle. Great input. Range extenders weren’t available until just now and we actually had ours installed and updated last week! Very excited to ride the bike now and see the added range, which you are right, won’t be huge !
I think you are missing a key point as you a young fit male (birth person with male genitalia aka dick if you prefer). I’m almost 60 and have ridden MTB’s since the 1989. The last 10 years I’ve raced and have thousands of trail miles past me. My wife is 50 something ( I won’t say how many how many 50 something years) she has very little experience and more importantly doesn’t work out regularly lift weights etc. She does play golf. We got her a higher spec Rail last year. The challenge was she had difficulty maneuvering her bike on single track due to its weight and her strength though on double track she had a great time, she still complained it felt big too and that was a small frame bike and her 5’3” height. We just picked up a small higher spec’d fuel eXe including electronic shifting. In the parking lot she was happy about the size and weight of the bike and said it felt more like a bike, but said motor was noticeably less additive. Wish me luck. Maiden voyage this afternoon. I think it would be great if you could round up a few diminutive women ( that is birthing women with overies, or born with them) and have them make a comparison.
I don’t understand the point of pushing more miles on a full power bike that is not as fun versus fewer miles that are more enjoyable on a lighter bike. The fact that the bike is doing all of the extra work means even if you’re doing 20 miles in an hour versus 15 miles in an hour you aren’t getting any more of a work out, which is why full power bikes don’t make sense to me. For people using them for prolonged rides in terrain where the playfulness of the lighter bikes isn’t relevant, or for exploring/sessioning, the bigger bikes make more sense, but still don’t appeal to me. The fact that we have options to cover whatever use case an individual rider wants is the coolest thing about mountain biking today versus when I started in the late 80s/early 90s.
Thanks for sharing. Having options is great for sure. Regarding the workout aspect, I’ve done many tests with analog and ebike light/SL bikes and have repeatedly found that I get a better workout with a full power bike. Average and peak heart rates are typically higher due to the more physical requirements of the heavy bike and chasing the extra power and speed the motor can deliver.
without a doubt, you can get a great work out on low or high powered E bikes, and the extra weight does take more effort to throw around (which the motor does not help with). Rider personality and bike choice definitely make a difference on how you attack the ride. When I really want to work on fitness, I jump on my single speed because I push harder, even though in reality, I could push just as hard on my geared bike. I’ve ridden a few of the heavier bikes and just never got along with them, but I understand why some people love them. After doing some nasty technical climbing on my buddy’s Orbea Rise, and and seeing how far they go with the extender batteries, my next bike will be the new Rise or the EXe.
I can maintain a much more aerobic or anaerobic consistency on my full power e-bike than anything I’ve ridden. I ride an enduro as a primary bike anyways so the full power handles and behave reasonably similar on the trail. It’s really a time issue for me as another rider with kids and work….I can get way more miles in and see more beauty outside on the full power machine.
I guess you dont have knee problems yet, but once it caught to you, you'll be asking for more power and longer range.
We’re these test done entirely in the highest assist mode (turbo/boost)? That’s not really a real case scenario?