Round Table Discussion: 2022 Pinkbike Fall Field Test
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- čas přidán 12. 12. 2022
- Levy and Kazimer talk in depth about the bikes in the 2022 Fall Field Test, comparing how they stack up against one another in various situations.
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Thanks guys! I think one thing that needs to be said is that your coverage (and later these field tests) and your honest disembowling of the completely shitty geo and component options on the market when you guys started was one of the major reasons that we have the awesome shit that we have today. Kudos to you for (at least mostly) not falling into the "good reivews for more access" trap and really holding the industry accountable.
Thanks for mentioning the Specialized Stumpjumper and comparing it with these bikes!
The Norco would be the most fun for me to ride…by default, because I can’t afford the other options.
I bought the 2. Small step down in components, awesome bike.
I like how the great stumpy evo is what all trail bikes are compared to now. Stoked to own one!
Once again, amazing content. Thank you for being really honest in your reviews. Tired of other reviews *coughs* where everything feels like unicorns and rainbows. Keep up the great work !!!
Thanks for comparing with the Stumpjumper Evo. It really helps me understand the relative performance of these bikes. Maybe you should do this more going forward. Include last year’s bike of the year as the benchmark or “hot seat bike.”
Appreciate the Stumpy Evo comparison at the end. When it comes to a do-it-all All-mountain/Trail bike there's really only two options right now, the Stumpy Evo and Fuel EX (because yes, a 140mm bike is still an AM bike).
The adjustablility and features of the Trek makes it the clear winner for me in this test, and if we include the alloy version it's also the second best value behind the Norco (Trek has the better frame, while Norco wins easily on spec=price), as the Santa Cruz and Yeti don't offer an alloy frame at all.
You guys are like the classic pairings of straight guy and comedian. Think Laurel & Hardy or Abbot & Costello. Great stuff.
Thanks guys! Great reviews!
Love the shoutout to the Stumpy EVO. Now I dont feel as bad still riding mine 😂
I love how you have a “worst” makes the reviews more honest
I tested Santa Cruz Tallboy and I believe that is not too far from the Hightower…. Definitely would go for that one …. If I have won the lottery 😂
I own a beautiful '21 carbon stumpy evo and its really hard not to lust over that new Fuel EX and Hightower!
Why?
The Trek is just a really ugly Version of your bike. The Hightower is dope though lol.
Stumpy evo is still prettier imho 🤭
That was great gentlemen. Great hanging out with ya.
@TextOnTelegrm-Pinkbike4 cool tm me
Great discussion you guys👍
"Kiss, Mary, Kill" I like that! I have the Hightower v2 myself but these newer Treks has been really good then again I love love to take corners fast since I'm slow everywhere else
We need a Kiss, Marry, Kill in every future round table!
Bro your Mount rush hoody looks awesome 🔥🔥
My pics. 1. SC Hightower - 2.TREK Fuel EX - 3. YETI SB140 - 4. NORCO - 5. SCOTT
Thank you Steve! 🙏🙌 They never bothered to cover which bikes they’re reviewing. Rookie edit.
heard good things about the trek on dry terrain
Hightower all the way, great bike🤟
That TREK is sweet !!
Great video 👍🏼 I think the Optic C1 would be a better for with the rest of the bikes, also because I own one and want to see more vids of it 😂
Would like to see how the lowest builds of these bikes perform against the top of the line. I think that would really expose how well they are designed
You could even take it a step further and have them all equipped with the same components that way the only difference would be geo and suspension platform
But that would be comparing sram/shimano/fox parts and not actually comparing the frames (which is the only thing the manufacturer actually gets credit for)
@@harveyjoneswoodsman5956 That only really evaluates frame performance and you have a million variables there. It doesn't evaluate the component spec of the bike or things like the bike's value proposition (ex the Norco Fluid FS running Fox Factory at less than half the price of the rest of the bikes)
Agree about the Scott and other bikes with all the integration .
Nice and simple engineering for trail side repairs or that quick fix the night before going out with the group .
Don’t want to strip half the bike down just to run a new cable .
If I owned the Scott i'd just get the local bike store to maintain it haha, way too much faff
@@thomasmckinnon8107 trouble is they cost that much the old piggy bank would be dry
So im a Colorado guy and was a 130 lr owner until a few weeks ago until mine got stolen from my garage. (it's okay i got it sorted with the insurance) ive gotta say im pretty disappointed with yeti as well. Its pretty much the same bike ive been riding since 2019. Im living in the mountains now so im gonna go with a nomad
I have owned two genius so far. Twinlock is awesome no matter what they say. I agree that cable routing is unneccesary though.
I've just ordered an X01 build Hightower 3 in green, for me it seems like the perfect all rounder. Currently riding a 115mm travel Giant Trance 2 29 it will be nice to have some more suspension and a better bike to tackle a bit of XC/flow/techy climbs and rocky descents - it was a very hard choice to decide on the right bike that could handle a bit of it all.
how is your HT ? Considering same model
@@msobas They wait was too long here, so I ended up getting a Megatower instead - but if the the HT is anything like the MT then it will be amazing. The MT climbs much better than I expected!
Sidenote, big kudos on being so professional, neutral and unbiased. Also for saying “kiss, marry, kill,” because I cringe every time someone says “f***, marry, kill.” It’s just so trashy and crass. Like farting in public or other sayings, like “screw the pooch.”
oh, my stars!!!
how does the Trek compare to a Stumpjumper Evo? adjustability, pedaling and DH? seems like that would be a good shoot out
Everyone cries so much about how much these bikes cost. Nobody wants to watch a review of a Prius or a Corolla, we want to see a Ferrari or a Lamborghini. You don't have to get the highest spec'ed carbon version. GMBN tech did a deep dive on bike cost and when factoring for inflation, high end bikes are cheaper today than they were in the 2000's and better performing.
dougs channel says otherwise so that's nonsense
I didn't agree with that gmbn video, just look at the norco fluid, 2021 you could get the fs1 in my country for $3800, it had a rockshox deluxe select shock and a rockshox pike select fork, now if you want to spend a similar amount on the new fluid you would have to get the fs a3, it costs $200 more and it comes with a budget x-fusion shock and a budget rockshox 35 silver tk fork, so its got cheaper suspension yet it costs $200 more, what a rip off.
@@jamble7k what more more popular and successful? Doug DeMuro or Top Gear?
The best bike regardless of price is the one that fits and works for you. I’m very happy with my Trek Fuel Ex 9.7. With the upgrades I’ve done, I’m well above the 9.8 and I’m still cheaper than what a 9.8 is at retail.. and I have the exact same frame. What I hate is folks who look down at someone because they don’t ride a $10k bike. The point regardless is being out there on the trail enjoying yourself. I can care less if you’re riding a Walmart bike, kudos for being out there trying..
are you satisfied with your Fuel ? I got huge dilemma,between 9.7 or Santa HT v3.
Stumpy Evo for life!!!! 😉
I cant stand that Sram derailleurs dont have an adjustable clutch. But I also hate that Shimano doesnt have the ability to lock the derailleur into the extended position. Why cant they both just have both 😩
Are there any ffield test for entry level sub 1K hardtails ?
Trek all day, want that pedaling efficiency
Great review. The evil offering would have been a great comparison. I have owned 12 bikes in the last 2 and 1/2 years and it is the best all arounder I have ever owned.
I haven't ridden the evil but I own a 2019 norco fluid fs1, which has almost identical geometry, same travel, 0.7 degrees slacker, and its by far the best bike I've every owned, much better than my 2017 slash 9.8, and 2016 remedy 29, its super fun and poppy and can handle everything I throw at it, including steep double blacks, but these guys will probably complain that the head angle is too steep and its lacking travel, considering they seem to think you need an enduro bike to ride enduro tracks.
Don't mind the hidden shock on the Scott, it's just the thru headset cable routing that puts me off, there's no need to overcomplicate things.
Anyone have any insight on the stack height between the fuel ex and Hightower? For the xl the HT has a proper stack. 635 vs 654. Feel as though that would play a pretty big part in steep dh performance and comfort as well. Thoughts?
I own the Santa Cruz Hightower and I love it. I also bought the new yeti 140 29er and I do think it is an awesome bike. Looking at Nate Hills the position of your body on this bike is totally different to any other bike. So I will see….
So the Trek is that nice? Worth the upgrade from a gen 5?
On balance, when it's all said and done, I would come down on describing it as more of a rectangular rock.
it would be nice to compare the norco to a vitus mythique AMP
Norco is the killer giant. 💯
I considering the Hightower but keep coming back to the Tallboy. I'm torn. Will have to throw a leg around them in a demo.
Awesome job as usual, but why can't I stop thinking about cheese?
i wish i was in the ballpark of one these dreambikes anyhow good or bad there are!
I'm feeling the Fuel EX and/or Hightower 🤘
After you've finished abusing them, please send one of them my way for some R&R 😉
What is trail vs all mountain vs enduro? Can someone explain.
But what's the price difference between that Trek and the Stumpjumper, seems like that's an important factor when talking about them. The Trek Fuel ex that's comparably equipped is pushing 10k, basically twice the price.
All-mountain Field Test please.
Which mudguard is on the norco fox forks? Can’t find one for the new 34
I like doing dumb stuff on short travel bikes as well! Enduro on an XC bike!
Nice
SC HT FTW!!!❤
I could only afford the Norco, but would choose the trek if possible.
If you're talking about doing dumb things on "little" bikes, how do you compare to the most recent Devinci Troy? I don't know if there's a little bike that does dumb stuff better.
No Scott engineer developed that integrated system for 4 years - Scott "bought" Bold in 2019 and that way had access to the internal linking system. So less than 3 years would be the maximum for a Scott engineer working on the internal link system from BOLD to get it to work in a Scott Genius ;)
Hightower for me, all day erry day, I’ve got a V2 and still not another bike out there I’d swap it for🤘🏼
Interesting. I demoed one having been a v2 Bronson owner. On paper it was THE bike but just didn’t feel it. Still wonder if I just didn’t get the setup right
@@thegrannyringmtb1818 Hmm hard to tell, it is a full 29er tho so a bit more on the stable at speed over nimble in the tight stuff compared to the Bronson...The bike can just be sooo many things, over forked with big tires it's almost all-mountain/enduro feeling...150 fork with modest tires, it's a trail bike that hits well above it's weight class...and that's not considering the cascade component upgrades...just wish I could fit a coil over on it for the right occasions.
@@RookYZRM1 I'm really considering a HT 3 and would need DD casings, 200 mm rotors and likely a 160mm Zeb = my perfect all duty/enduro rig for my area, etc.
@@TFritz82 Sick, you're gonna love it...I've got mine on the other end of spectrum, 150 fork, 2.3 light casing trail tires...but I've also got a Spire for big bike days.
@@RookYZRM1 sounds like a well rounded mix to me man. It's what I like about the HT - it can really be pushed up or down a 'segment' for It's intended usage!! I'm really gonna try and pull the funds off to keep my Nomad 6 for perhaps the park and bigger rocks when I want the mullet slayer and the HT3 for most anything else really...race bike, fun bike, long ride bike, etc!
where in an era where all trail bikes are good, it's just what brand or looks you most prefer.
The fluid being included in this test is no contest... You could buy the fluid, with a reasonably well-specced downhill bike and XC bike or gravel bike and have a quiver of bikes for any need.
Makes me wonder if they made it in a carbon frame and with a 150mm fork how it would've fared on this test.
I want the Hightower
Thanks for the great reviews. I'd like to see trail bikes tested in more of an "epic, all-mountain" type scenario (though maybe that's what you did here and I'm just not seeing it). Longer pedally days with longer stretches of climbing, unfriendly conditions, rolling terrain with tech. Many riders still ride in areas where long days are not done on bike designated trails, but rather on old, blown out hiking trails, with long climbs on bike un-friendly trails. But maybe there's just not enough bikers out there doing that sort of thing to warrant reviews targeting such rides - I definitely see a trend with riders only seeking out bike specific trails with easy climbs and traverses and focusing only on the downhill. Too bad, as the dh only comprises a tiny fraction of the time on the bike... but, back to your review. Pay no mind to the complainers crying about the price of the bikes you are reviewing here. There are plenty of reviews on less expensive bikes. Thanks again and great job. On paper that Trek looks great and if I didn't have a warrantee frame on the way from another maker I'd likely go with that bike. I hear the frame weight is a bit on the porky side however...?
Even all the old hiking / motorcycling trails in the area near me have been reworked by overzealous trailworkers into the same thing - flowy mtb trails that never just go straight up or down the fall line and tend to avoid rock gardens. They are fun to ride but how about leaving some trails more natural?
@@youtubeaccount9058 same things happening in my locale. Sometimes NOT to a detriment but even the "flow" trails need constant pedaling between features and even have awkward climbs mid run...almost defeating the purpose of a 'flow' run.
Norco 💕💕💕💕
Trek Fuel climbs slightly better than Alloy Stumpy EVO... so maybe as good as my carbon Stumpy EVO. Goes to show just how far ahead Specialized were when they released the EVO in 20201
That's not really saying much. I didn't find the EVO to be a great climber, a decent climber, but not great. I also ride a Ripmo which is the best pedaling ~150 travel bike out there. But I've ridden enduro bikes that pedal better than the EVO (RM Altitude and Canfield Lithium come to mind).
@@mrvwbug4423 the challenge with "feel" is it's not "facts". You need to run a controlled test, like the Pinkbike efficiency test, to determine what actually climbs fast.
Of course you cannot include every good bike on the market - but, where do you think the Canyon Spectral would fall within this group?
Definitely the trek in a different color
Either buy the current Stumpy Evo at a discount or wait for the new Version with all of the Features Trek will copy in 3 years.
Lol. Stumpy and Fuel are like the Honda Accord and Toyota Camry of bikes- close your eyes when riding and can’t tell them apart
@@gomerpyle7721 only difference is with the stumpy you get the new features, Geo , adjustability , frame storage 3 years before Trek knocks them all off. I have a nomad and a transition spur. So I really wouldn’t ride either lol
Just bought the norco on sale lol
I think the fact that the Stumpy Evo is still up there with the latest and greatest is very impressive. But then again, I can't see a reason to get any of these 11k bikes aside from:
- I have unlimited money or
- I really love how that bike looks
Otherwise, get the Norco, or get a Stumpy Evo used or from last year.
I think now that all the bikes are this good, and performance isn't really connected to price any more (just look at how well Deore / SLX Drivetrains work), prices should come down again.
Also, if the Stumpy Evo or the Scott are "trail bikes", what the hell would be an all-mountain bike?
Where are the rest of the testers?
I would put that Trek in my bedroom too! Lol
Haha I have a Trek Fuel EX 8 Gen 6 sitting in my room I just bought yesterday, taking it out tomorrow.
I’ve been listing over the Propain Hugene but that Trek is really nice too.
2:09 the Levy Slug
The picture of Levy making out with the Hightower in my head leaves me awake this night for sure.
Could I take one of this bikes, let say the trek, to a bike park and not be out of place ??
Transition Scout still the most fun trail bike out there. Why you riding trail if you're not trying to have fun?
A $12k bike with cable rattling 😳 The bike has some cool aspects to it, but the price, proprietary bits, and over integration will definitely keep it off of most peoples lists.
Even if that Scott was the same price as my current rig (Nukeproof Mega) I wouldn’t buy it. Ever. It’s fucking dumb.
Levy and Kazimer, funny f@ckers and such a natural combo, love it.
I wonder how many riders spend more than 5000$ on their bike
YT Izzo !!
Hightower duh no frame like a SC frame.. that’s why they corner like they do
At the 8:07 mark is why I never would buy a demo bike now matter how good the price is.
How good are they? Really? For 10k plus are they as good as they should be?
Where’s the pivot trail 429?
@TextOnTelegrm-Pinkbike4 ??
Would love to see a capable hardtail field test
is there anything to say about hardtails lol
@@jamble7k just thought it would be enjoyable to watch, even tho I would never buy one
I built up an All Mountain Commencal Hard Tail with a 160 Lyric on 29" carbon wheels and it is an absolute blast. Rip it most places I'm not hitting large trail features. Hard tails are an absolute blast!
Is there something like “my not-personal taste”?
You say even though most of these are $10,000 bikes, they also have other bikes in their lineup. You tell us how great the $10,000 bike is with one of the major reasons being the suspension is tuned for that bike.
You go on to say, there are other bikes in the lineup that have the same frame at a lower cost. But they don’t have the same suspension, so how are we supposed to know if the bike is going to ride as well as what you experienced on the $10k version?
Please stick to $3500-$6500.
I know, the same frame with budget suspension is going to ride like a completely different bike, just the extra 2kg weight gain would be a noticeable difference.
That and mid to low end SRAM isnt very great at all compared to Shimano Mid to low end. While SRAM high end X01 and up is awesome. I bet these bikes with SRAM mid range wouldn't be to great. One of the reasons I got a Trek 8 gen 6 over a stumpy. Mid to low end Stumpy has crap parts, plus those paintjobs look really bad.
I love mountain biking but this industry has really jumped the shark
Let’s talk about that Yeti. When the reviewers say that it has traction and that it was designed for only certain terrain (CO), do you take them at their word or do you think they are just trying to find a nice way of saying that the bike misses the mark?
I’ve had a 130 lunch ride since summer 2020 and it’s an amazing do it all bike. Super fast climbing and descending. Amazing desert bike. Rides the bike park pretty well.
@@rcktmn I’ve owned that bike too and ditched it after a few hundred miles. I was really hoping that yeti fixed the issues on this new version, but I don’t think they did.
No Rocky Mountain Instinct?????????
Unfortunately I think the biggest problem with the MTB market at the moment is that these aren't even "top of the line" and come in at 8-10k with gx/xt level builds. Considering trail bikes are supposed to be efficient, light, and not exactly "full send" with suspension travel ideals of "a few jumps here and there and more time spent with wheels on the ground" its shocking how much money these cost. The only bikes even remotely justified to be at this price point should be XO1/XTR spec 150-170mm enduro bikes that really are capable of riding everything you could on your downhill bike while also not compromising too much efficiency going uphill. Downhill bikes have inherent flaws: they can't really pedal and are allowed to be heavy, for that reason they have more suspension, stability and "full send potential" but realistically aren't engineering marvels of weight distribution vs capability and should really not cost more that 5k max. Same logic should apply to any trail bike. Less travel, less send, less bike, less weight means you won't need 200m Rotors and max stopping power and it also means you really dont need that 2000$ 38. 5k should be a top of the line build for a trail bike Considering what it's intended for. This is of course with the philosophy that in the case of a trail bike you would "never need" more than xt braking performance or a 36 up front and therefore this should bring costs down compared to the enduro bike that's more capable therefore weighs more so then every gram counts to keep it light. Thus the justification of the weight to price argument that backs XTR and XO1 components.
It would be alot more accessible of a sport for people who don't have an annual 2k bike budget to see more beginner oriented prices similar to the Norco with great performance. Rather than everything on your bike having to be replaced within 6 months bc you got an SX/Yari or sub SLX build bc that's all you could justify spending money on before you knew you were going to be addicted to the best sport ever
Scott has assumed the role of modern Cannondale. Weird for no reason, built for dentists.
I've been riding this bike for 7 years now! czcams.com/users/postUgkxHL1v1R3NE5x4KiYfyt8dnQmyNYz7qi5L It was a great bike the day I got it, put it together, and went on my first ride; more importantly it's an even better bike today. I've ridden trails, street, and skatepark all on this bike. I have replaced almost every part on the bike. Some stuff has broken: derailleurs, wheels, shifter. Everything else were upgrades. The only ramaing original parts are the frame, bottom bracket, and crank set. BB and cranks will be upgraded soon. The geometry isn't great but that is really the only draw back to how good a value this bike is. Even after all the money I've spent upgrading it's still a more affordable bike than I'd have bought from a proper bike shop, especially with full suspension. I've also learned a lot about bikes working on it over the years. It really is one of the best perchases I've ever made and hopefully it'll still be around for another 7 years.
Trek is underrated imo. Got 2022 slash 9.8 xt and holly shit what a bike. Its an absolute animal. Also whatever they say about trek they cant deny one thing. It makes the sexiest bikes by far.
That yellow trek is absolutely ugly.
@@323johnnybravo lol, its goegous what are you on about
@@Stockfish1511 Nah that pee yellow and the frame design from a 2018 GT force ain’t it.
@@323johnnybravo Lmao arent you the same clown that was crying about Trek copying everyone? XD
@@Stockfish1511 they literally said that Trek copied Specialized in this video. Looks like the experts agree with me. Only noobs and dorks ride Trek.
The Grim Donut wuz robbed
You said duty 💩 😂😂😂
out of all the bikes the Scott gives me the MOST dentist vibes fs, and there's a damn yeti in that group
Norco and $7k
Yup. I could pick up 2 more great used bikes with that extra $7K
So SPECIALIZED is way ahead of the rest?🤷🏻♂️
Years ahead