Leonardo Momento Zero vs. Moonman M800 Fountain Pen
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- čas přidán 5. 09. 2024
- In this video, Tom makes an objective, "apples to apples" comparison of the Leonardo Officina Italiana Momento Zero fountain pen against its copycat, the Moonman M800 fountain pen. Dive into the details of each pen to highlight the differences that matter most to pen enthusiasts.
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I’m sorry, but I bought two Leonardo and there are nothing special. I also bought the moonman and it writes well for less than what I pay for the Leonardo, which I regret buying. I don’t personally care about the pen maker history or reputation. The pen needs to write, and writing with both pen have no difference at all. I’m sorry, but I know for you is a business, but the truth is that the moonman writes.
i agree with you
Yes, I agree. I bought a Leonardo Momento Zero Positano and was disappointed with the nib and ink flow. It was a medium nib and wrote like a dry Japanese fine nib. The pen was not comfortable to hold and was too light. I sold it and took a loss just to get rid of it.
Agreed. Moonman & penBBS QC is with the best of them.
Thank you for doing a nice comparison. I had rather expected a "buy the more expensive one, European pens are always better." review. I would own both, if both were within my budget. For me, I like to tune my own nibs to the way I like them. I am left handed, so sometimes it ends up not writing as well for righthanded people. With the Leonardo, I am limited by how THEY think I should write, because if I tune the nib I void the warrantee on the pen. I think that and the price are why I prefer to generally buy Moonman, Jinhao, PenBBS, Hong Dian, etc. sure, there is no one to help me if the pen breaks, but I can get it writing just the way I like it, and end up in the exact same spot, since I would have any of the expensive brands tell me they won't touch the pen because I changed how they felt it should be. The thing is, since I am the only one I can turn to if one breaks, I have learned a lot more about pens than I think I would have if I had stuck to "name brands". Kinda like vintage, you can't send it off to get it fixed by some company, you need to learn it yourself.
Giving my (Tom's) opinion would have been commonplace and fairly predictable. I was more concerned with displaying the naked truth and let everyone decide for themselves. I'm glad you found it useful. :-)
Since I’m not a huge collector, I think the Moonman would meet my needs adequately. While I certainly appreciate fine Italian workmanship, I just want a pen that writes well and feels good in the hand. Looking at other reviews of the M800, it seems that most people are very happy with their purchase, so why not give it a try? Unless I were a real collector, it almost seems irresponsible to spend an extravagant amount on a pen when I could get a similar pen for so much less.
I agree that we all benefit from cheap pens. I bought them myself. The problem is not that they are cheap, that they write well, or that they are made in China. The problem is that they intentionally, and very directly rip off the look of the product which actually put money into the design, advertising, and patenting of their product. So, in theory, since you have choices of what cheap pen to buy, it is probably , well, no, clearly wrong to buy their product. If you didn't know they were ripping someone off you'd have an excuse of some kind. But since you were attracted to their pen for their appearance then their theft of design has worked and you have enriched the thieves of intellectual property knowingly.
@@StopFear are you sure that that that specific design is patented ? I am not sure. There is nothing wrong in copying designs if they are not protected. Is a common strategy by any company in this world.
@@Nnomadd He will never answer you lol. Guy has no idea what he is talking about.
Paying for things in general almost seems irresponsible. Wouldn´t it be great if you could just steal all the things you want in a store. Am I describing your attitude correctly? I guess I do.
@@BO-kh1iz How is buying the M800 stealing exactly?
A steel nib is at the end of the day a steel nib. Whether in a Leonardo or a Moonman. Italian pens are temperamental IMO. I do wish manufacturers paid more attention to a nib before it leaves the factory. Interesting and fair video.
I am using a Leonardo pura everyday. When I ordered it, it felt pricey. Now it is the most favourite in my 20 pens collection. I am now actively selecting my next Leonardo.
The moonman M800 allowed me to try out that unique grip section without having to pay the premium of Leonardo. The Bock nib on my M800 wrote great out of the box , and is one of a handful of nibs that I haven't felt the need to tune. Turns out that I don't care for the grip section.
A pen friend of mine has a Momento Zero, and I can definitely vouch for the fact that the build quality is much better. The Momento Zero's resin patterns are also much more visually appealing. As for nibs, they're both Bock steel, and from what I've experienced in this hobby, stock nib tuning and performance is a crapshoot.
I look for two things in a pen: unique writing experience and unique materials/design. So with these two, I'm not so tempted to buy either. If I were captivated by the design, I'd probably opt for a Moonman. The laser-engraved Bock nib on a Leonardo just doesn't justify the huge difference in price for me. For cartridge-converter acrylic pens with classic designs, I'm usually perfectly happy to buy Chinese pens like Moonman or PenBBS because the quality control is excellent, they have nice materials, and the nibs are generally good out of the box or can be easily swapped for a German nib if I want something broader than what is available (usually only EF or F). At this point, I'm good enough at nib tuning to be able to deal with any flow or smoothness issues, and I can do minor pen repairs, so I don't really need a warranty, especially for a cheap pen.
I am willing to buy any fountain pen that I like and can afford, wherever it is from. I neither own nor want either of those pens.
I have both pens. I prefer the Moonman as you can easily replace the nib. Although the nib of the Monnman wrote flawlessly, I replaced it with a titanium nib - an option which is simply not available with Leonardo and it still was way cheaper than the Leonardo. The ability to replace the nib of the Moonman with any kind of nib that you may think of is an advantage that the Leonardo simply can't compensate for.
As far as I understand it, both take the bock nib, feed and unit. Go ahead and swap the two if you like unless you got the Moonman with Moonman nib that is.
@@-o-The-Duke-o-
Because at the price of a Leonardo, the lifetime warranty is very important to a lot of owners...and you cannot modify a Leonardo, period.
"Whenever any repair may be needed due to a manufacturing defect or defective part, the costs of parts and labor will be provided by Leonardo Officina Italiana granted the following conditions: The writing instrument
• Has not been mishandled, immersed, or dropped
• Has not been disassembled or used in a manner different than the one given in user instructions
• Has not been modified."
After using my Moonman M800 I have loved it so much I am saving up to purchase a Leonardo. I absolutely love my M800 for the feel in hand and now cannot wait for the day I can hold the Leonardo Momento Zero 2.0. I will say though I am disappointed in the poor engraving on the Leonard Jowo Nibs. I wish they would put their heart into designing a beautifully deep engraved nib rather than the boring laser engraving they have settled with. The outstanding Leonardo pens are worthy of better.
I think you'll be happy with the new Leonardo "La Fenice" nib style. The MZG 2.0 pens have this nib on them (except for the elastic flex nib sizes) It's stamped instead of laser engraved so it looks much nicer.
@@GoldspotPens Wow you aren't kidding! They are beautiful! Thank you for bringing this to my attention.
Thank you for this video, and thank you all who made a comment! I now recall that Chrisrap52 experienced a difference in fitting between barrel and cap on his two Moonman specimens. ”The devil is in the details”!I get the impression if I were to buy a Moonman 800 it would be to try out the bottleneck shape of the section before investing in an Italian pen. I’m also tempted by a Pelikan Twist! Same price range as a Moonman, but an original impressive design. Pelikan nibs, (all low end) have never let me down. Maybe a special edition Pelikan M200 as the luxury alternative? For the time being I i like tto get to know my hitherto collected ever so nice pens better, their behaviour with dufferent inks or paper. A world of adventure may be out there, but also in your own drawer! Check out Chris Saenz!( She likes her purple Moonman 800 for sentimental reasons, it was gifted to her)
What your not considering is that many CZcamsrs consider Moonman's own nibs to be superior to Bock. I would be in this camp. Also, the Moonman nib brings the price down to $25. Although I have found some minor defect in almost every fountain pen, this is a great deal. I guess I'm just not convinced that the Germans and Italians do a better job at quality control than any other Asian country. If you don't support businesses that steal designs then that is a fair argument. But don't make it seam like you are getting a better product just because of the price and country of origin.
I bought the Leonardo first and it is an awesome pen (Momento Zero Mediterranean). When I saw the Moonman, I bought one to compare with the Leonardo. It came with the Bock nib and wrote nicely right out of the box. My biggest complaint about the Moonman is its smell. It has a terrible solvent smell that soapy water, baking soda solution, ultrasonic cleaning, and soaking have yet to remove. At writing distance it is noticeable, but it does look nice. Since then, I've bought the Furore and the Delphino. My wallet is telling me to wait on purchasing a Momento Zero Grande.
David, depending upon the material the Chinese use to make the Moonman, you might try a diluted vinegar solution.
I bought the M800 with a Moonman F-nib. The nib was very dry and had skipping. After flossing it with the brass sheet it wrote ok. I've replaced this nib with a Bock F-nib recently and now it writes like a charm. Shortly after I bought the pen I saw some reviews of the Leonardo Momento Zero (LMZ) and I was stunned by the available finishes. So now I'm already waiting about five weeks for my LMZ Positano Blue to arrive. As much as I like the acrylics of the M800, I'm not that fond of semi-translucent materials so the solid acrylics of the LMZ are more to my liking. On the other hand I heard a lot about nib problems of the LMZ (mostly baby bottom) so I'm anxious to see if I have to tune the nib. If the nib turns out ok, I'll not hesitate to also add the Furore model to my collection.
Friends, do not be frivolous. If you will buy copies, those who really do something with a soul will simply disappear from this market and after 5-7 years you will see only a dull, monotonous shit on the market. I'd rather pay more for those who love their work than those who simply profit from the ideas of others.
I just bought the Moonman M800 to see if it may interest me in the Momento Zero. I haven't tried it, yet. I do have the Momento Zero Grande which I love but perhaps it may convince me to get a Momento Zero.
Your shirt matches your pen so well.
The only true advantage of Leonardo is their unique resins, but the price difference is huge (€40 vs €160) and can't be justified. For the price of one Momento Zero I can buy four M800 and use all my spare Bock nibs ....
Thanks for the review Tom. I love the Leonardo Momento Zeros. I own a Mediterranean Coral finish and a Blue Hawaii. I find them spectacular to look at and a joy to write with. I ordered a Moonman M800 to have more of a similar look without having to worry about damaging my favorite pens. It has not arrived yet so who knows how I will feel when it gets here.
1. I have read so many bad reviews of different Italian pens that I would not buy one without trying it out first.
2. Any differences between these two pens are moot to me, as I can afford the Moonman and cannot afford the Leonardo. And for me, even the Moonman is too expensive for what you get, as I am not a fan of swirly plastic.
3. Branding-wise, Leonardo sounds to this American like an attempt to ride on Da Vinci's coattails, while Moonman is straight from outer space (a good thing). Far and away my favorite brand name. Actually the only brand name I have any feelings about.
stop being poor
Nice review. At an 1/8th of the price i'd rather look at each of these pens for what each is for itself: The Leonardo is beautiful and so is the Moonman (of which I own 2 - one with a bock nib and the other with a Moonman nib). Both my Moonmans perform like champs, comfortable and good to look at, well built and constructed. Having heard of too many complaints about Leonardo Bock nibs that did not perform right out of the box raises the alarm and to that alarm Leonardo must listen. Take a look at the Douglas Rathbun youtube channel, he draws a good comparison there.
I only buy pens that are made in my city they are cheaper and easily serviceable because we know who actually made them
The most expensive pen I have is of 1000 rupees it's like 14 USD and it writes amazing
You lucky man! Do you live in Mumbay?
I have a Leonardo Momento Zero and I love it. Wrote right out of the box and the Verde finish is so pretty. If the Moonman wasn't such an exact copy/ripoff I might be tempted but it is just too much intellectual property theft for my liking. If they had done something different, changed the grip or whatever, It might be fun, but they didn't.
this is by no mean an intellectual property theft and if we were going down that road then ALL pen makers have at one point or the other been guilty of it and continue so...
@@michaelmichael5643 I think there is a lot of room for inspiration and so on, I know I see a lot of things that look similar to other things but there's usually something different. For myself, I just feel it is soooo close, but YMMV.
I own several name brand pens, and a few Chinese pens. What bothers me most about the name brand pen is that I imagine that the profit margin on those pens must be obscene. Had I known just how obscene when I bought the pens, I probably wouldn't have bought them. I guess ignorance is bliss? I dislike companies that sell "premium" products at obscene markups. It's unethical...
The assumption here is that the cost is the same to produce a Moonman than it is to produce a Leonardo, for example. While the raw materials could have a comparable cost, it is possible the labor to manufacture these pens is much different.
@@GoldspotPens First, let me clarify that, with regards to profit margins, I was not referring to resellers, but rather to manufacturers. I'm actually a Goldspot customer, having just ordered a Leonardo fountain pen from you. And I was not positing that manufacturing costs for Chinese pens and name brand pens is the same. Obviously, the labor costs are higher for name brand pens, but is it enough higher to justify prices that are often ten or more times more costly? I seriously doubt it. Someone, somewhere is laughing all the way to the bank as people like us pay hundreds of dollars for pens!
I would say to viewers to watch Douglas Rathbun's latest video review on the Leonardo Momento Zero pens. Just as another reference
Priya Nugraha Thanks, will watch after this.
Unfortunately, Dougs' experience with his Momento Zero was not good in terms of the pen's writing ability. He was very disappointed, to say the least! I'm happy to say that the two MZ's I purchased from Gold Spot are gorgeous, and wrote flawlessly right out of the box. They are amazingly smooth, especially given that they are both equipped with extra fine nibs. I wanted the "Blue Hawaii" resin but at the time of purchase, it wasn't available. So, I ordered the "Positano", and have no regrets. Liked the pen so much, a month latter, ordered a second one in the "Pietra Marina" resin!
Dave Charvella likewise, I initially had issues, but nibs are cheap so I got a replacement and it wrote great!
So you can buy 3 moonmans and still will cost less than one Momento zero. So why is the warrantee relevant when you can just repurchase a moonman and still save money?
Well, how long are those Moonmen going to last compared with the lifetime warranty of one Leonardo Momento Zero pen?
CZcams's CC algorithm has generated pure comedy gold for this video.
I for one am a fan of the M800, I have the blue galaxy one and the material is stunning. I also suggest the review from Doug R. That another commenter noted as his experience with the momento zero left much to be desired. I also do not find the threads on the M800 to be sharp or uncomfortable in anyway. Personally I prefer the Chinese moonman nib to the Bock nib although I do like Jowo nibs and find them enjoyable to use.
Like others have noted, if you’re in the market for one pen or the other youre probably not deciding between the two.
For me personally, sometimes it’s nice to try out the cheaper copy before making the commitment to a bigger investment.
That’s to say, unless it’s a bad design in general, the availability of the low priced copy has led me to buy the original a couple times because I was more certain I’d like it.
the Leonardo in some pens (baboo limited edition)use the same acrylics with Moonman
I'm in the same camp as those who don't mind the Moonman M800. If it writes well, it's a win-win-win because it's a beautifully crafted pen and a serious bargain. The Leonardo's just make me drool; their aesthetics are bar none. Exquisite pens. I want one in every color and every model. But, I've heard and read horror stories about the Leonardo nibs, which if true could really destroy a good business. The pen needs to function/write. I don't buy a pen just because it looks good. It's a combination. I sure hope their quality control starts to kick-in and we, the pen community, start to hear less issues with their nibs. After watching your wonderful video, I'm game to try both and see what I think. I've ordered a Moonman M800, but will have to wait on the Leonardo until my pen fund increases, but I will definitely purchase a Leonardo. I really appreciate the video. Thank you, Tom.
I just ordered a M800!! for me $200+ vs $35 to $50 is a no brainer - even if there is something wrong down the road one could replace the M800 multiple times for the cost of 1 LMZ. Who knows..maybe as I get into this hobby more my mind will change but for now M800 is the way - heck for the low price if I'm not pleased with the writing I can always swap a nib to get to a good place - still for much much less
China is a status oriented/brand oriented culture. Of course they make knock offs, but if you make $ 0.30 an hour in a factory, you can't ever afford a Leonardo. They're different purchases for different target groups.
But quality - hmmm. I just got one of your limited edition Delfino by Leonardo pens. It's particularly plastic feeling, and the stub is basically so wet it's almost useless. It's pretty, but $200? If Moonman had a $60 knock off and I was so into the status of a brand I had to be seen with it, I might buy one.
I assume $200 means an excellent high quality pen. That's not what you just produced with Leonardo. So I have no issues at all with Moonman. Let the quality of the pens be the difference. You didn't achieve that with your exclusive limited edition Leonardo.
I personally prefer the look of the moonman. I prefer the swirl pattern, the more subtle double ring vs the triple ring, and that you can see the ring where the clip mounts to the cap. As for the blind filler, it doesn't matter to me because I syringe fill my converters to make less mess.
My Moonman had TWO annoying quality control fails.
I own both Leonardo Limited numbered edition and Amber M800 with the Bock nib and both write without any problems so far. Yes warranty is very important but when you buy Chinese pens you better buy them from the place you can return to in case you have any problems. Unfortunately buying expensive pen doesn't always guarantee that you will get perfectly working pen. By now I have 4 non Chinese pens which do not work as well as they. For one of them the replacement nib assembly sent to me by the manufacturer didn't fix the problem so I ended up sending the pen back for refund. The Chinese knock off of that pen is lighter so more comfortable to hold and works without problems out of the box
Can anybody answer my Qs clearly, please? which is a better buy moonman m800 bock or TWSBI diamond 580ALR?
Tom, you have a very impressive way you say "Momento Zero". I get a smile out it, every time I hear you say it.
Even with being partial to green, teal and turquoise pens, I could not order a Moonman pen.
First it's made in China, secondly without any point of contact and thirdly without any warranty I not going to gamble on whether or not I get a good pen. I'd rather put Moonman money in either a slot machine or at a blackjack table.
LOL....again, LOL
But the momentous zero took their section design from noodlers ahab?
A Italy its based more closer to omas and delta models. I’m not saying it doesn’t look similar to the ahab, but I’m not entirely sure it has any inspiration from that brand.
I've decided not to buy any more Chinese pens, because of the trade war they have started with my country (Australia) for suggesting that an inquiry into Covid 19 was a good idea, plus the other issues they are causing in our region. My own little boycott. I have my own Momento Zero Hawaii with a lovely gold nib and I don't need the pens pumped out by a criminal kleptocracy to grace my desk. Taiwan shows a better example in proper originality, with TWSBI.
Personally, I would rather pay a premium for a pen that has a warranty versus one that, if there is an issue, I just throw away. Not only that, the team at Leonardo put some R&D time into the development, and these costs must be recovered somehow. If possible, always the original for me.
I don't care about the brand of a pen, whether it cost $10 or $1000, but I do care when I notice a pen is a knock off an other. If I can't afford the pen, then I would do without, rather than have a knock off. 40 years of experience in the pen making business vs what 40 months to make a duplicate. That's not cool. There is however, somewhere that the price jump makes the difference. Perhaps not the massive markup, but the finer details are the differences.
Good honest comparison. There are two risks: the typical poor quality of Chinese pens which can put you off fountain pens in general; and being laughed and pointed at: "Here comes Johnny Copycat with his cheap a$$ pen!". Cheapness has a cost.
I bought both. Moonman M800 (Bock nib) wrote amazing from the first moment. The Leonardo (Bock nib) did not write at all and I had to send it back for repair. The same experience I had with other sized nibs from Leonardo. I understand that they changed to Jowo and hope they have sorted out their problems with the nibs as the body of the pen looks amazing. The Moonman body material looks ok-ish.
My heart....vey beautiful pens
I think it's terrible that Leonardo engraves its name into the body of the pen. Much the same as branding leather, it ruins the aesthetic and is completely unnecessary.
Both pens are identical and have the same nibs. But the costlier one is better than the cheap one.😅😅😅
Since this video was made I have learned that Leonardo is changing their nibs to be made by JoWo.
They made the change in January of 2021.
I usually don't buy any copy cat product on the market, but now I got interested in Moonman M 800 after watching your video. FYI I just purchased Leonardo yesterday and realized there is Chinese copycat now.
Excellent comparison! Would I own a Moonman? Yes. Is a Moonman a better value than the Leonardo? Absolutely not! The Leonardo is better in every way in spades & is proportionally more expensive with better materials & craftsmanship.
🙏
You can go see Billy Joel in concert at Madison Square Garden but if you're too cheap to do that, you can go listen to a street musician sing Allentown to your hearts content for free. Same thing here. Creativity and originality costs money. The real thing costs more to own. Also once you own a $25 Moonman, it has basically no value on the secondary market. At least you have some monetary value in owning a Leonardo. I have one Leonard Momento Zero, a stub and the acrylic is beautiful. One last thing, the value and satisfaction of ownership of a fountain pen can be measured by how upset you would be if you lost it. I think in the case of a lost Moonman one would just shrug their shoulders. I guess next we will be hearing comparisons of the Montblanc and the Jinhao. To some people they are the same thing.
The best is to pay no attention to those imitation pens. Unless you want to sell them of course. ;-)
I don't like that companies can profit without putting any work into designing a unique pen, so I don't like knock offs. I think moonmans original demonstrators look amazing for the price, but the m800 is a knockoff. With that said, I have made the rookie mistake of not doing research, and bought a knockoff.
These two duking it out on the international stage while the the Wahl Eversharp Equi-poised and OMAS Extra are throwing massive shade at all attendees of this present-day shindig…
I´d rather have one nice and original pen than buying and collecting dozens of fake Chinese pens (as many people are apparently doing). I do in general not enjoy lowering myself to cooperating with companies or people that express their criminal energy by shamelessly copying and stealing. If I don´t have the money or do not want to spend an certain amount of money for a thing, there a plenty of cheaper quality alternatives available from respectable companies. Nothing wrong with Chinese products if they come up with their own innovations and designs though.
I own two Momento Zeros, the Blue Hawaii with a medium nib, the Mango with a broad nib and I just love them! Seeing the Moonman just copying stuff makes me angry and I wouldn't even want one, if I was given it. I DO know that Moonman is acapable of making great, affordable fountain pens, so if they could just do their own designs, that would be a selling-point.
I never buy Chinese pens if they have blatantly copied a style from another designer. I don't have a problem with the Jinhao X450's and X750's because the standard cigar shape pen is one that it seems every company has used. But when these companies produce pens that look exactly like a Lamy Safari, TWSBI, or Leonardo, they seem as if they're doing this to specifically take a portion of those pen manufacturers' markets. Where's their originality? I would not want to promote a company that cannot produce their own product, and makes a name for themselves by copying another company's aesthetic.
China! No laws, no rules, few standards. Ever heard of intellectual property theft? I struggled over a Moonman C1 (EF) Vs (Taiwan) a TWSBI. I got both C1 and the Diamond 800 RG (B). No comparison the Moonman C1 (EF) sucked, skipped, hard starts, etc.. When trying to send it back I only got directions on how to repair it due to Amazon’s pressure. After doing some major surgery on it with razor blades from air hole to tip, I finally got it writing consistently. Moral: China sucks. The TWSBI (B): perfect, super smooth wet writer out the box.
Agreed. We as Americans should try to avoid buying Chinese as much as possible. It is so hard!
There's no need to bash an entire nation and people just because your cheap pen doesn't come with the same guarantees as a much more expensive pen.
dude where did you get all those hatred from? from orange man?
Both are Chinese pen co
Thanx for the VLOG👍👍👍
I really hate this Chinese copies of every quality item.
Not only that they distroy the market, often are these Chinese copies produced very poorly and materials feel cheep. They achieve these low prices,because their workers live and work under horrobile surcumstances. I will never buy this scrap. I love quality and handcraft, that is worth I high pricetag.
I never want to purchase an idiotic copy by Chinese..
You are not comparing apples to apples, you can buy three or four Moonman pens against the other pen, apples to apples means against another pen in the same price range.
Currently I have 4 Leonardo pens, while their are differences in each of the 4 pens I wouldn't trade any one of my Leonardo pens for a 100 Moonman pens. I'm not being a pen snob. I can see and feel the quality in the Leonardo pens. I am probably a little bit biased against the Moonman, because they blatantly copied the Leonardo design. Couldn't the Chinese have come up with an original design on their own. Also, since China was not forthcoming regarding the COVID-19 virus, where possible, I have been avoiding buying anything made in China.
Moonman is not worth it. I will buy it if its price is 10 dollar or less.
Well done on the video. Chinese folks just showed how much leonardo should really cost. Don't forget that those $52 include profit part LOL. leonardo just being greedy.
Leonardo is an expensive crap like the Italian cars.I have one in my collection with a crack in the threads of the main body although i have rarely use it.Moonman is a better pen,China is coming furiously and in stationary industry,so the Italians have to be more careful,cause style is not enough.
Italian cars are good like lambo almost as par as German