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Aluminum Bronze VS Tin Bronze, Making & Testing Bronze Hatchets
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- čas přidán 12. 08. 2024
- Lets test out some modern C630 Aluminum bronze up against ancient Tin bronze and see how well they do!
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Intro 0:00
Making sand molds 0:39
Melting bronze 1:47
Opening Molds 2:43
Cleaning up castings 3:14
TIG welding 3:46
Cold Forging 4:39
Making Handles 5:59
Testing 7:38
some aluminum bronze variations have a percentage of iron added and can be hardened up to 66RW. They're most commonly used in marine or industrial applications where strength comparable to steels is needed but also corrosion resistance. They make for great boat propellers
What is RW rating, I knew HRC rating but not RW
@@monkeking8604 Rockwell
@@dbmail545 rockwell hardness is in HRC not RW
@@monkeking8604 depends on country, usually HR or RW is used everywhere, HRC denotes one of the tests used in hardness deformation test HR-C (Hardness-Rockwell-Crystal tip deformation) Usually diomond.
HRB wich is more common, is Hardeness-Rockwell-Ball indention
as
HV (Hardness-Vickerscale)
HB (Hardness-Brinellscale)
HR (Hardness-Rockwellscale)
..for the most how much a diomond deform is of littel use in most cases, its more a value of scratch resistance wich is for the most cases useless information...
Why not use stainless steel?
4:15 vaporisation.
TIG has an extremely hot point source, that lowers Rapidly as it radiates away from that source into vastly larger volumes.
But your spark is around 5000k/4700⁰C.
Aluminium vaporises around half that, same with copper, but the multiple minor ratios of the entire process will have vaporised one more than the other, and changed the exact composition relative to the whole head.
Likely also localised heat colouration; that spot was melted and cooled under different, less controlled circumstances. It's why material type, filler type, welding settings be extremely important.
or it may be due to the liquation
Was gonna say something to this effect. Even under shielding gas, *some* aluminum at the very surface of the metal will sublimate/vaporize (depending on if it's solid and glowing or a molten puddle when we're looking at it) if the bulk temperature of the bronze is high enough to give aluminum a meaningful vapor pressure compared to 1 ATM.
TIG blows way past that point and I'm not surprised there's a visible composition gradient in that thin layer. Love this stuff!
Great comment, that's what I was thinking ❤
Why didn't he used an oxy acetylene torch for welding? Or oxy propane?
@@alexiachimciuc3199 None of those can heat a small area up enough fast enough to gloop on some extra base material like that, than TIG. You can braze with bronze, but it would be HARD to braze to the surface of an axe head like that with anything other than TIG. You'd end up roasting the whole piece before the area you're adding filler to was hot enough. It would be uglier, even if it worked.
It may not look impressive to anyone else, but u drawing those lines was perfection
If you hold the pencil or marker and use your finger to guide along the edge, you would get the same results.
I read the "It may not look impressive" part of your comment, and my brain immediately filled in "but this is what peak performance looks like" haha
I'm an illustrator and noticed that right way, really top notch accuracy in that line and on both sides to match. Chef's kiss!
@@Freeman-Dl70 Of course or you could use a stencil or a computer operated laser. But he didn't, it's freehand that's the point.
@okultusrexus3660 Thanks, Captain Obvious. Your attempt to make me look stupid has the opposite effect. Where in my comment made you think I said anything about stencils? Wasn't my comment simply telling someone they could do like carpenters do and guide their finger? Climb off your high horse, it's only a .25 cent mechanical pony.
I guess there are good reasons why a whole age was dedicated to using bronze as a go to material. Great work btw, and the axes look really cool too.
Blame Crom for not leaving steel on the battlefield until the Hyborian Age
Tin is relatively rare so bronze was more expensive to make than iron which is much more common as an ore. Bronze is stronger and harder than pure iron but economics forced it out.
@@user-ug5sb6qg1u Iron was relatively harder to work into a useful tool. I think that is the main thing that held it back. The Chinese did better with Iron cause they invented a double acting air pump (bellows). It pumped air on both the on and out stroke.
@@Pablo668 I know about the bellows, I made one, and I agree about iron being harder to shape than bronze, because you can cast what you need of bronze with minimal shaping and just some cleanup. They would, however, have been familiar with hammering metal to different shapes using heat in the middle to late bronze age at least, possibly early bronze age due to extensive copper working.
Bronze shorts when worked hot but copper can be worked a little easier, plus silver and gold by the middle bronze age for jewelry.
The longer, more intensive process of smelting iron had a lot to do with it, basically they had to reinvent the wheel to get it right. But even though it was softer than bronze, there was less likely to be an iron shortage because it was everywhere.
The Asian box bellows, some dispute over whether China gets too much credit, some say it was a southeast Asian design, I have no opinion until I do more research, was very efficient. They also developed a highly efficient smelting technique that was used to produce very good quality iron and steel that, according to Nova, passed to Europe through trade routes.
@@user-ug5sb6qg1u Yeah I agree with all of that. I think (guessing from memory) that there was some overlap between late bronze age and early iron age. I think natively at least iron working in Europe was basically smelting iron into a bloom and then working it from there. It has been a while ssince I studied this stuff.
That hammered texture on the blades looks sweet.
lol
random nate spotting
It's my favorite texture lol, I've probably spent hundreds of hours with a ball peen hammer texturing just about everything I make. Looks great on everything from knives to jewelry.
It probably tastes metallic tho
@@DH-.
Huh... 🗿
Are you going to cast your lot at your own bronze axe?
I'm kicking myself for not remembering the book, but there was a knifemaker who did probably hundreds of test trying to figure out what the best method for quenching blades was to maximize edge retention
his testing method was to cut short segments off of a rope with the knives, counting how many cuts he made, once he could feel the knives struggling, he called that his stopping point, it would be cool to see you try this with the bronzes, more controlled than chopping wood at the very least
for those interested, his best method was to quench a blade 3 separate times, waiting 24 hours after each quench (waiting apparently made a huge difference, it started when he got interrupted before the 2nd quench, and he struggled for some time to figure out why that knife preformed so much better, until he remembered the interruption )
Underrated comment, should be pinned, what liquid did he use?
Sounds like an older Pete of Cedric and Ada yt fame.
The grandpa of CATRA tests 🙂.
I have no idea who it was, but I could see Larrin Thomas take on a project like that.
aluminum alloyed metals can change color with annealing. the spot is because your weld cooled at a quicker rate than the casting. If you anneal after repairing at 600-900 it should go away.
Just a note - for axe hafts (handles) the grain should be aligned with the direction of the axe blade for maximum strength and to minimise damage. Hickory is the best wood for handles but when I saw the grain at around 6:20ish it’s basically the opposite of what I look for in an axe handle. It might not make much of a difference in the short term and on axes of this length, but for longevity and to avoid issues on any longer axes in the future I’d always try and get that grain in line with the axe blade.
that does make sense. i suppose the wood is less likely to delaminate or fracture that way. thanks for the info.
I knew something looked off about them. Good eye.
It's much more important that the grain doesn't run out than which orientation the rings are in. Those handles will be fine. I'd be more worried about the loose fit at the bottom of the eye. You should have to tap an axe handle home firmly with a baton or mallet, it shouldn't just drop onto a shoulder like that.
also important is not to get half heartwood and half sapwood, to avoid warping problems.
Hickory? Baaah. There’s an Irishman who’s quite adamant about Ash.
As a casual observer, those casting molds and the results were incredibly impressive.
The pour was so on point the lines from the 3D molds was even cast. Impressive.
In the book The Odyssey, bronze was the material used for weapons. The phrase "the cruel bronze" is often used. That has stuck with me after reading it many years ago.
I hear ya! I was wondering the whole time when we'd see the test of trying to hack through a Trojan's armor...
Thank you for your video. For those who are unfamiliar with sand casting, the top half of the mold flask frame is called the "Cope", the bottom half of the mold flask frame is called the "Drag", and the sand packing tool is called the "Rammer".
Rammer Time.
FWIW, I own a Phosphor Bronze hatchet cast by a local gunsmith twenty years or so ago. It's amazingly tough.
If this guy started making these for sale i would definitely start buying them for my collection
I'd HAVE to have one of these.
In early bronze age you would have more likely found arsenical bronze.
It's mechanical charateristics are comparable to tin bronze, but it's not industrially made, and a DIY would be pretty dangerous, for obvious reasons.
that hammered edge is pretty cool looking too
As an Aerospace machinist, I really loved watching this 👍
An appleseed edge is another term for a convex edge, where there's no discernible edge bevel as the edge is blended cleanly to its apex.
… So he didn’t give it an “appleseed” edge?
Those cold forge marks are why I clicked. You definitely are right - they're cool!
Just like to say a thank you as I've been a viewer for some time and I really appreciate the time you spend explaining things that may be obvious to other metal workers and done without patronizing us viewers who may not be as knolagable.
I gotta say, i'm so relieved you didn't choose to cover the entire hatchet head in a hideous mirror finish, but actually went for a more functional AND aesthetically pleasing, more balanced look with the hammer forged edge and brushed finish on the rest of the head. Thank you for that!
Guess I’m not going to sleep now
Bronze is a wonderful metal for marine use, it's tough, resilient and very corrosion resistant providing you take care of electrolysis. It makes a beautiful looking axe. Good job.
You should mold in the "welding bars" into the top surface, so when you pour it, it won't just run off...but pool into a nice formed rod
Either way...such an incredible design and build!
Keep em coming!!!!
You should do a razor next. Romans were clean shaven with large round bronze razors with work hardened edges. Since then we switched to carbon steel and sharpening, but I’ve always wondered how bronze would perform!
Bronze is also anti-microbial, which explains how Roman surgeons were able to perform complicated surgeries without antibiotics - their scalpels and other instruments were all made of bronze !
Probably comparable as far as use goes. Even though steel is harder, that comes into play only in edge retention properties, meaning steel holds its edge longer before resharpening is required.
That said a bronze shaving knife would be badass and I would totally buy one if available. Bronze is so beautiful.
I think having a proper steel axe as a baseline comparision would have really helped putting these results into perspective.
Your attention to detail stands out. Your skills are self evident. Your voice overs are appreciated. You tell us what you're doing and why? Well done Sir 👏
Did you know that the most common version of aluminum bronze is called Nordic Gold? Nordic Gold is what the .10€, .20€ & the .50€ coins are made of. They choose that metal because it does not contain any metals that people would have a contact reaction with.
I’ve used bronze gardening hand tools for 25 years, love them.
I like your organized and clean style of manufacturing !
Kudos on the proper use of risers to minimize shrink defects.
I actually really like how these look! The more orangey color looks really good with the tan of the wood! And that hammered edge is just an awesome finishing touch
ngl, the cast metal with the 3d printing layer lines actually looks really neat imo
I was messing around with copper and indium a couple months back because I thought I could make bronze out of that. I figured that since indium and aluminum are in the same group I could just make a similar alloy. I'm not a foundryman, I just used a blow torch and fire brick to melt everything which is probably why the aluminum that I used at first just burned away. The indium didn't burn away and it mixed well with the copper. The problem is that a 50/50 indium bronze mix was way too brittle to be practical for anything.
The difference in colour is a restult of the krystalline lattice forming differently, since it cooled faster, causing their atoms to allign differently.
The colour would become uniform, if you heated it up, and then cool it down again (Tempering).
Depending on how hot you make it, and how fast you cool it you alter the properties of the metal quite drastically.
It will make it softer or harder, depending on how much you heat it, and how quickly you cool it down again.
Quick cooling will make it Hard and Brittle, slow cooling will result in it becming Soft and Ductile.
If you are proficient in tempering, you can make the edge hard, while keeping the core and body soft, which will cause your axe to hold an edge for longer, and prevent it from chipping easily.
I know how to do this with pretty much any Steel, but that one i am not familiar with.
You can test it by casting or forging rods, then heat them and cool them differently and see the results by seeing how much the bend before breaking, and how much force it takes.
This however requires specialised equipmen, but there is shops who wil gladly test these for you for a fee.
also you can look it up, there have been tests on this very material, and the results should be publically available.
Thats for iron alloys, not copper alloys, iirc it also dont work with most other alloys ether
Copper and copper alloys will just go soft if you heat them regardless of how fast or slow you cool i down.
That's why you have to work harden copper and bronze if you want it hard.
When working copper you get it to red heat & quench in water to soften- the opposite of how iron works.
@@user-qr3nz1wi2j It's called Annealing
how about bismuth bronze or black bronze? im always interested to see how different alloys perform
Bismuth bronze?
@@just_that_crazy5179 bronze of the bismuth variety, if i remember correctly it's an alloy of bismuth (obviously), zinc and copper and it looks neat, but i don't know how durable it is.
@@Minty1337its mostly a self lubrecating alloy
Their are basically infinite versions of bronze some work as expected some do something compleatly unexpected
Black bronze looks neet but is 8% silver and 8% gold so get expensive quickly
@@aggese only 8% silver doesn't seem too bad, but the gold is a bit ouch.
yea its weird how easily copper seems to 'bond' with other metals and produce funky alloys, and they all got such unique colors and properties too, far more fun than steel alloys in my opinion.
There is another ancient bronze that was used that you want to stay away from even though it is actually pretty good, Arsenical Bronze. Arsenical Bronze contains between 1% and 12% Arsenic (yes a Toxic Heavy Metal), with the rest Copper (and sometimes Tin), making this stuff can cause serious health problems and even death. A number of Copper Ores contain significant amounts of Arsenic (Enargite, Olivenite and Tennantite), likely the first accidentally discovered alloy and type of bronze, but due to the improved characteristics it was likely deliberately manufactured fairly quickly. Highly levels of Copper and Arsenic were discovered in Ötzi's hair (Ötzi, The Iceman, is a 3000+ year old (Chalcolithic, Copper Age) natural mummy found in ice along the Austria-Italy border), suggesting he was involved copper smelting and that they were using some of these copper/arsenic ores.
Always a good visit when you post young fella. Very nice creations. Thanks and see you next post.
I read a graph somewhere that tin bronze, after work hardening exeeds the hardness of mild steel so honestly it would make for an excellent hatchet edge. If you have any interest in history tou might find a ton of inspiration in how strong bronze appears in historical writing... they made cannons out of the stuff for example.
Yup high grade Tin/Bronze has higher hardness than low grade steel, however it has a lower melting point (and a much lower point that it loses strength and fails)
👍
I had to smile at your comment that "I am sort of a perfectionist" That is certainly obvious by just watching you work, and also looking at your foundry. I salute you!! Dr. George Whitehead
You never know what you'll find amazing and informative when you surf YT. THANKS!
I love these videos, thanks for posting!
Blown away with how awesome your skills are. I was expecting you to make fairly basic axes for testing or whatever. Wish I had your skill.
Excellent workmanship they are perfect good job
Some nice hatchets. Was honestly surprised they help up as good as they did.
That's some of the cleanest casting i've ever seen!
I am impressed. Your craftsmanship is high level.
The design looks identical to my Helko Rheinland hatchet. Loved this video, I wish more things were made in bronze, even if it is more expensive, it just looks so cool and premium
Great video! I handled a bronze sword blade I believe 3000 years old from the Middle East. It was in amazing condition and the edge was still sharp. I have never underestimated bronze tools and weapons ever since. I was living near UNGH (university of North Carolina) a few years ago and there was a book in their library that showed details of hundreds of bronze weapons.
Totally awesome and immense fun to watch. Thank you.
Thanks for making interesting videos dude!!😊
Wonderful workmanship! Naval guns used to be made of bronze, so I'm not really surprised that it stood up so well.
That finished product looks amazing
Beautiful work. Well done!
Beautifully crafted.
Sir, those are things of beauty! You are a talented fellow and no mistake!
Wow those are gorgeous. Bronze is such a nice looking metal.
Boiled lindseed oil. Yes, my go-to. I used it on a birch walking staff, and the thing is like iron. And beautiful.
Those turned out beautiful.
The slightly different color where you welded it is probably because different alloying elements vaporize at slightly different rates when molten this slightly influences the color and melting temperature but isn't a big deal under normal use. This phenomenon is used by jewelers when they need to make multiple solder joints on the same piece of jewelry since older solder joints can remain solid when you heat the part to melt the solder for new joints.
I am really happy with this video. The last aluminum bronze video must have had people thinking that bronze age people must have been stupid to make their tools out of bronze.
Very cool! I collect antique pattern makers tools and have a lot of woodworking tools that has been cast in brass/bronze by pattern makers. I’d like to see you make a spoke shave or a router plane!! Thanks for the video!!
As a kid comic book had a villain who was armored in phosphor bronze So that always stuck in my head as the ultimate hard metal
Its amazing how much a few % difference can change the final outcome.
Its even worse than that some alloys are none inuative in hiw they behave and even hard to predict with modern science
@aggese it really is a art. Ratios, temperature, cooling rate, cooling time, reheating and tempering among others can all cause vastly different outcomes.
Pretty cool 😎, love your shop and tools !
Man ...the hammered edges look AMAZING !
I had cast a few bronze swords (just for fun) and they do not like chopping. I lack the set-up to cast them very thin, but the thick swords end up bending and twisting while chopping. This makes me want to cast a tin bronze axe now. I even have a spare axe handle... hmm.
I remember hearing about how Greek soldiers used to have to pound their swords back into shape during a skirmish, so maybe your not too far off with this..
@@edgeldine3499i think that may be a reference to Gaulish warriors using iron swords, which would have been what we call “wrought iron,” but it’s plausible that similar issues might be had with varying qualities of bronze available before modern scientific metallurgical knowledge. Often bronze swords were not made with full tangs, to save cost, and the blade would be riveted to the handle. These rivets were subject to breakage especially with slashing attacks, so bronze was often limited to short thrusting swords, arrowheads, and spearheads. Many of these short swords would only be sharpened at the point, the sides were left dull.
The ancient Greeks also used a bronze sword with an incurving blade, called a _kopis_ , likely derived from the earlier Egyptian scythe-like _kopesh_ .Hammering the edge of the blade causes the metal to expand along the length of the blade as it is made thinner; this pushes against the C-shaped blade, which keeps the metal under compression and increases its hardness without becoming brittle. There was also a double edged pattern described as a “leaf shape”, which had incurving sides, taking advantage of this compression principle to allow sharp edges for slashing. When iron started to replace bronze, they would be made in the same patterns, until smiths learned how to take advantage of the different properties it afforded . This can be observed in the early versions of the Roman _gladius_ with its “narrow-waisted” appearance.
On another channel (Metatron) a medieval and ancient warfare/history enthusiast was discussing how bronze was a lot tougher than most modern people give it credit for, stating that bronze weapons were still serviceable options for ancient warriors and people thousands of years ago, even with the introduction of iron weapons. They would not have had access to machines and pure ores but you just proved to me at least that our ancestors, using tin bronze, would have had wicked edged tools and weapons of bronze. Really enjoyed this. Thank you.
Love unique metals for tools
Amazing! Great job, thanks for sharing.
You deserve more subs man. Keep up the good work! 👍
Hearing that you're in your workshop and not outside makes me think you have an air-conditioned workshop and that makes me really happy
Hot, muggy, gross workshops are rough when you have lots of work to do
I was designing 3d weapons for my medievel indie game, seeing you do all this helps me so much, and why the blade section has that hardened texture
Gotta love that Ancient bronze!!!💪💥🔥👊💚😎👍
Excellent video, very informative.
Looks splendid
The weld wasn't contaminated, the filler wire was when you poured it onto the casting sand
The sand contains oil, so that makes sense.
@@misterhat5823 if you have a tig brush or even brake cleaner you should be able to avoid future contamination
Copper and aluminum both conduct heat extremely well. Copper also changes color on its surface with heat, due to oxidation, depending on how hot it got. When you TIG welded, you made a hot spot. The heat spreads outward, very quickly. Once the copper gets hot enough to oxidize, it will. Just around the TIG weld, the IG controls oxidation, but once the heat gets outside of the inert gas, it oxidizes.
They look great
They sure are good-looking hatchets.
Just a suggestion use boiled linseed oil instead of glue on the wedge it remains flexible with impact and can be refreshed and tightened by soaking in blo
Raw linseed oil will soak in better ,boiled oil dries better
Awesome work
You can make very strong aluminum bronze by adding about 2% iron to it, also could add 5% titanium or 0.5% beryllium. Any of these alloys is as strong as steel and the Be one can get to Rc of over 60. All will work harden with cold forging over Rc 50.
These look beautiful
Great stuff. Thanks for sharing. 👍
The differenc in coloration is due to your heat softening that spot. The metao cooled uniformly when casted. Then you re heated that spot and it annealed it.
Cool video man
it's very pretty and almost functional, love your videos, a real hatchet woulda got through this piece of wood in 2 shots though. But this isn't a critique, it works well as a commemorative item of all your hard work.
He wasn't putting in full strength because he didn't want them to fail, he just wanted to get them up to the point they would start to but not damage them.
Also Old Oak is hard...really hard, i've had modern axes crack while chopping it. If you are going to cut it or chop it, don't cheap out on the axe/blade and get low end steel.
This was a real hatchet.
Bronze axes were used over a longer period of time than steel hatchets have been.
@@DH-xw6jp You know what else has been used for longer ? yourmom.
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Tell her Bill sent ya, and she'll let you call her mommy.
@@hk0444 best 5 buck suck this side of the Mississippi.
Tell her Bill sent ya, and she'll let you call her mommy.
The lesson, Bessemer knew what he was doing. Thanks for the converter.
Nice work!
I tested a set of bull gears in a old English truck that were "bronze" bsck around late 80,s and my test involved hitting with ball pein hammer and to my dismay the shape of a tooth was imprinted into my hammer, no mark left on bronze gear whatsoever, doing a little research back before the internet and i found claims that Egyptians had bronze alloys that at that point in time modern processes could not duplicate in strength or hardness and after seeing my own efforts i believed it to be true !
Pretty cool. Only nitpick is maybe in the future you try different sides of the wood for each tool. That way there is more of a visual indicator. Loved the video!
Those are super gorgeous.
These are beautiful. Glad to see handcrafted tools in today's day and age. I suppose the aluminum bronze is a more modern version of the tin bronze.
So cool. Metalurgy is an amazing science.
Great stuff right there.
rally beautiful hatchets!
there are several factors to the alteration of the coloration of alloys like these, the culprit could be any _or all_ of these.
-Oxidization: heat accelerates this process, and there's the square cube law of surface area. small pieces have more oxide per weight due to this.
-Evaporation: the smelting process can evaporate some of the metals/additives, so twice melted metal will be of a slightly different composition than it's once-smelted counterpart.
-(de)tempering: thermocycling metal can alter it's structure. repeated cycling alters it further, generally. This could be a sort of "Hamon" effect, as we see from steel bladesmithing. Welders can make beautiful patterns with this effect as well!
nothing you can do about the 1st 2, but if it's primarily the 3rd, you could possibly even them out with a few thermocycles, either in a kiln or with a torch!
In our country (Slovakia) we call this traditional kind of bronze hatchet ,,the wallashqua,,.
when testing edge retention you often give it a more acute edge to see when it will actually roll over.. you can take pig-iron, file a very broad edge and it will hold if fairly well. I'd like to see testing done with set edges, test and then grind it to a more acute edge.. start at 30 gradually moving down to 15 or even 10 degrees and see when the edge begins to roll or chip.
Nice job. Very scientific.