Exceptionally well done. Sensible and well-informed. To me the deal-breaker with expensive European pens (which I love) is really the lack of attention given to nib tuning. Like you, the writing experience is everything for me, and I'm growing a bit tired of invariably having to tune nibs myself on not-cheap pens. And no, I don't think it's reasonable to expect every purchase to include an extra 30 or 40 euros to get the nib tuned by the seller...
I hear you there, but a lot of the issues are the quality of the nibs coming from bock. Only Santini and Aurora make their own nibs in Italy as far as I’m aware. The issue being when you have high demand and only 2 people working on pens, the QC does take a hit alas :( as for nib tuning/testing most companies will test the nib for free if you especially request it. I’m not making excuses for Leonardo, I think they are big enough now to hire staff especially to QC nibs!
Yes, I mention that a few times that Appelboom will tune your nibs for free. My point was, at that price, the company should be testing each pen before it goes into the box even if it is by eyeballing to make sure it doesn't look like a German pretzel.
Well said! And as I said a few times and Pen Friends mentioned again here, Appelboom provides this service for free and I will avail myself of that on my next purchase from Joost.
Excellent video as always. You covered the copy/homage/inspired by question very well. I will never be able to afford a zero and I am very happy with my amber 800 with bock nib. It is a beauty. Amber is now my favourite finish but it’s so hard to find. Looking forward To your T2 review. Mine is a joy to use bar continually unscrewing the bottom section..hey ho, a small criticism. Well done and keep them coming.
Much appreciated, Allan. The T2 review (and included RANT) will be up on Wednesday. I couldn't afford this Leonardo either but people like you paid for it for me. I used my revenue from my first two months of CZcams monetized videos to pay (well mostly pay) for the MZ. So, thanks!
Thank you for making this video. The M800s have just enough differences so that they don't violate the copyright - they used the Leonardo as "inspiration". I have a purple M800 with the Moonman nib and an MZ in Lavanda purple. (bc covid and we were all going to die and I thought why not?) And I look at both and wonder where all that extra money really did go. It is nice having both (and I got a great deal on the MZ) but when I really think that I could have had all 4 colors of the M800 for the same price....:( Ah, well. Live and Learn. Looking forward to the T2!
International copyright is the stuff of nightmares for brand names. There is no way that Salvatore would even think of getting into that morass. It isn't worth the time, money or effort. The Leonardo line is incredibly beautiful and they make fascinating and gorgeous products. Once they've solved their nib problems (by switching to Jowo), they won't even need to glance at Moonman in the rear view mirror. Thanks for watching and supporting my channel Liz. You will see the T2 review (and my 10 minute RANT) on Wednesday!
These are all beautiful pens. I love the looks of the M800 so much I put one on order and had to order it in Galaxy Blue in your honor. MM did a great job with this all around as far as creating enough true differences to set it apart and yet create a beautiful pen in it's own right. Now I'm saving my pennies for a MZG2.0 in Baobab Spaghetti Resin. Thank you Doug!
I'll be more impressed when Chinese companies like Moonman actually start innovating. As opposed to aping other manufacturers' creations. Magna Carta for example are doing excellent, original designs from India. Very desirable pens.
Thanks for the honesty. I'll probably be getting an m800 soon as I don't think I can quite stomach the m600 price. Although it's cheaper for Moonman to make their own nibs, I still have respect that they do, as I believe they can design their nibs the way they want, similar to Lamy's easy nib replacement and Sailors unique feedback.
Doug, Really enjoyed the two vids on the LOIMZ. I have a LOI Furore and I love it. Thankfully, my LOI wrote spectacularly right out of the gate. I opted for the Furore over the MZ after I got my Moonman M800 and swapped in a Nemosine Nib - following your lead. That pen (M800) is one of the top pens in my collection. Thanks again for the time and effort you utilize to make these vids for us. As referenced above, they really do have an impact in the community.
Nicely and fairly done Doug. Now I’m looking forward to the T2 evaluation. My husband found it too heavy so I inherited it. It is my everyday writer for my journal. Out of the box nib without a bit of tuning and I love it.
Right on! The T2 review will be up Wednesday morning. I'm just doing some editing now. I'm afraid that I've included a soap box rant in the middle of it. ;)
Thanks for a very good and fair comparison of these pens. I really appreciate the down to earth manner you used to do this video review, as opposed to the comparison done by Goldspot pens, it was extremely clear that Tom had an ax to grind being a retailer for the MZ pen line. I bought the galaxy blue moonman with the moonman fine nib, and hav we swapped it out with a fine jowo nib from Goulet pens and I absolutely love the pen and all the comments I get from others about the pen. Enjoy the weekend and keep creating your wonderful videos. Thanks Richard
I had a couple of issues with Goldspot's comparison. One was about the "sharp" threads on the M800 - they are so far from being sharp it is ridiculous. That was just a bold faced fabrication. The other has to do with the warranty and quality control "extras" you get with Leonardo. I showed the QC was definitely not there and as to warranty, it is great my MZ is under warranty for life (against defects) but if my Moonman M800 is bad, I can get another for $25 - the price of an MZ nib. I'm glad to see you have a Jowo in your M800. Is the Jowo gold? I think that is the future for Leonardo - Jowo nibs.
@@InkquiringMinds no just a two tone steel nib, but as I am learning there is not a huge difference between gold and steel nibs if they are properly tuned, unless the gold nib has a little softness giving some line variation. Concerning the sharp threads I agree with you on that item and noted that in my comments left on Goldspot review. Keep up the picking and pen reviews.
Great review! I would watch you review drying paint because I know you'd somehow make it interesting & entertaining! My m800's are great pens and neither needed any tuning (one Bock, one Moonman nib). But if they had needed some attention I would not have been too disappointed because I know they're mass produced and the price reflects that. If I spent 5-10 times as much, however, on a pen and it had issues, I would be totally disappointed & probably a bit pissed off! On another note, you have some really fine guitars and they sound great, as does your voice! Thank you for sharing your talents! Too many exclamation points, I know, can't help it.
I have the LMZ. Fantastic fountain pen, in every way. Stellar colors, build quality, style & appearance. And, of course, a delightful writer. It’s really the sort of pen that is truly worth saving up for if one cannot afford to buy it straightaway. The M800 is clearly a blatant take-off of the LMZ. But my main gripe is with the indifferent, unreliable quality of recent Moonman nibs. Very hit & miss stuff. And the M800, to me, feels like a clearly inferior emulation of far superior pen. I’d recommend everybody, at least in this particular case, to forego the copy and opt for the original. LMZ is endlessly lovely.
I've had about 75% hits on Moonman nibs out of the box and ZERO FOR TWO out of the box for Leonardo. All miss, no hits. The Moonman nibs that missed were fairly easy to fix. I'm STILL working on the two LMZ nibs. The LMZ is a freaking gorgeous pen, but like I said in my review, it is an expensive nib holder. If it doesn't write out of the box why did I pay $250 Cdn?
Douglas Rathbun ...Really? 2/2 duds from Leonardo. That’s an awful let-down. And indefensible for such pricey pens from a premium brand. With inexpensive Chinese pens, we’re justly more forgiving. No reason to be the same for pens costing ten times or more as much. I have two Leonardo pens. Luckily, both turned out fantastic. The main reason I recommended the LMZ highly is because mine turned out to be so outstanding all round. Especially, and most importantly as always, due to the superb steel nib and the writing experience. It writes as good as gold, hence my acceptance of the $220 I paid for it as being quite worth it. My first three Moonman nibs were extremely good and fun to use. The next three turned out disappointments - too dry, too fine, too stiff and just underwhelming overall. And random skipping, too. I’m rarely a tinkerer with nibs, so if it’s not right straight out of the box, it ruins everything for me. At any rate, I’ve never liked being forced to settle for the default F nibs on otherwise pretty, reliable, affordable Chinese pens. Now, I’ve quit wanting and buying any of them - until something special comes along with nib options I like a lot more.
Excellent! Thanks Sanjjad, for sharing your experience! I will still highly recommend Leonardo even with the issues I experienced. Amazing works of art.
@@sajjadhusain4146 I believe most steel nibs can be made to write with the same smoothness as a well-tuned gold nib - other than the gold bounce you can get with some gold nibs.
I have a Moonman M80 Mini. Sure, it's close to a Parker 45, but it does something (very well) that Parker never did. I've swapped a gold Parker nib and feed into it, and it's a pretty excellent pocket pen.
Parker GAVE the design and technology for the Parker 45 to Hero in 1979. In 2020, people are pissed that the Chinese are ripping off Parker when the majority of Parker pens are now manufactured in the east.
This is exactly the video I’ve been needing, I’m so relieved to know that the Moonman is just as nice as the Leonardo. Well... so close anyway, that acrylic from Leonardo is GORGEOUS, if I weren’t on a fixed income I’d spring for that one too.
One thing I would like to mention is that the Blue Hawaii is more expensive than some of the other MZ finishes. I sort of wish you had compared to a "regular" finish.
Yes, Terri. But, the Moonman Galaxy and Amber finishes are head and shoulders over the less expensive LMZ finish options. I think the comparison is closer to apples to apples with these finishes.
@@InkquiringMinds LOL They do have some very cool finishes and they tempt me, but perhaps I will do that with a pen that doesn't seem quite so copycat-ish to me.
Your excellent argumentation on the likeness of these two brands of pens, made me dive into the my drawers. I suspected I had seen another copy of the Leonardo design, and I was rigth. The copy in question is called Aurea - not the Aurora Aurea modell. It’s is scaringly similar to the Leonardo, almost identical in design and size. It even copies the great marble effects on the Leonardo. The clip is almost identical, attached to the cap in the same way, and comes with a roller clip. They did make a couple of tweaks to their design to distinguish their pens from the Leonardo pens. The Aurea was made in green marble celluloid, it has a button filler - real old school - and the trim on the Aurea is silver colured. Because of these details, there is really no way they can be accused of preying on the famous Leonardo design. The Aurea company is far gone anyway, and never made it to the charts in it’s day. Being made in 30s or 40s, they were indeed in the forefront of pen design.
That's fascinating Ove! I would expect a pen made in the 20's or 30's could not possibly be accused of stealing a design by a company founded in 2018! LOL Thanks for this information. Now I'm on the hunt for an Aurea!
@@InkquiringMinds They are invisible in the pen markets/pen history sites. Weird, because my pen is of very high quality. I will try to take a picture of the Aurea and my Moonman m800 together, and mail it to you. I'm not very good at pen-pictures, so it will be very rudimentory.
So I am starting to realize a few items. The pen itself(the outsides or holder portions of the nib) seems to be the eye candy only and really doesn’t play much into whether or not it is an ultimately enjoyable pen. The NIB is truly the deciding factor in whether a pen is truly going to be a favorite or not. Sure, everyone likes the bright and shiny package but when it comes down to it, it if doesn’t perform it won’t stand the test of time when it comes to being used. Doug, you have taught me a great deal over these past 6 months or so about fountain peens and what makes a good one etc... I’d love to see more videos about how a nib can truly make a pen better and how pens can be improved with swapping nibs etc. To me, this is where you can gain the most improvement in a pen that might not be performing so well. Love what you are bringing to the fountain pen review arena Doug, keep bringing us the great detail and informative videos.
Thanks so much Andy! I don't think it is as simple as the outside of the MZ is the shiny eye candy. I said it in both my videos on the MZ, the MZ is just a BRILLIANT fountain pen design in my option. The shape, girth, section, balance, over all look of the pen is close to perfect. Yes, Leonardo has borrowed from the design elements of other pens in history (the Wahl, the Delta (which Salvatore designed so he's stealing from himself lol)). What great designer doesn't steal? But where the rubber hits the road is where the nib touches the paper and a great pen design cannot survive an awful nib. I'm starting to save up for a Leonardo Furore now. That's how impressed I am with Salvatore's designs even given the disappointments I had with the nibs.
@@InkquiringMinds nice!... wow that is saying a lot coming from someone who absolutely loves his cheap crappy chinese pens. Lol.... so you do think the extra money IS worth it in terms of fit, finish and feel in the hand? I know I am years away from even considering spending $100s on a pen. Maybe one day. Thanks Doug.
At the current price I think that this Blue Hawaii is about $75 US over priced for what you get. But saying that, I understand the price point as they are in demand and low in supply. I want to get a Jowo nib from Goulet to put in a purple M800 but the shipping to Canada from NJ is more than the nib.
@@InkquiringMinds would love to see you do a Nib specific video. What nibs are usually the best, what makes a good nib in your opinion...maybe some comparisons in how they write....etc....for me as a noob I have no idea what to look for in a nib other than F, M, B, etc. Another reason I find your channel so informative. Thanks for that.
@@agradoville That's not a bad idea although I don't consider myself an expert in any way. Just a consumer. But, I do have gold nibs and steel nibs and stubs of various sizes. Maybe if I get my custom ground architect italic, that would be a good impetus to put together a video overview. Thanks for the suggestion Andy! :)
Thanks, Doug. The review, as usual, very informative and entertaining. About the IP infraction (allegedly), as you mentioned: some people may want to get the "real deal" after getting a taste with the moonman... but I'm gonna be honest, neither of the two brands attract me... more so as how the pandemic is progressing on my country (I live in México)... 😭... Thank you for the video Doug. I hope your having a blast with the nib tuning and write-testing of your Italian beauty... Me, I'm saving my money for either getting another French belle (Carène) or maybe a Japanese bishōjo (Pilot 74 or 823)... or maybe a German wunderschönen (Montblanc 146) 😂. Thank you, and I hope you and your loved ones stay safe and healthy 🙏.
When writing many pages in warm weather, I find the section shape doesn't work for me. My fingers slide down & I get ink on my fingers (not that its a bad thing). Not sure why the section is designed that way, in my hand not functional. When I first wrote with one in a show I did not like section design. I enjoyed your thorough comparison as I have no plans to own a Leonardo (the section). Yes, it is a pretty Italian, but you pay a lot for pretty. The M800 is pretty in its own way. Needing to tune or replace a nib on a $25 pen is OK not on a $170 pen.
Thanks, Chris. I really like the section. I hold the pen a little higher up and don't have the problem of slipping down the section. Not true with the Moonman T2 though!
I agree that that the M800 is a copy, but I'm not sure the design is copyrightable. It is a handsome pen, but as you pointed out with the clip, most of its design elements are not new. Only the section looks distinctive to my eye. Are pen workers in China less skilled than those in Italy?
Precisely, John! Precisely! Well said. I asked Salvatore for information about his company (history etc) and he promise he'd send it by email a couple of months ago. Nothing. They are busy I'm sure. But I have no idea how many people are working in the Leonardo shop. But, I'm willing to bet, the acrylic turning process and parts assembly process isn't that much different in Florence than it is in Shanghai. The wages certainly are different. I doubt the skill level is that much different. There is no difference in the fit and finish between these two pens.
Well, for me it’s a bit ethically confusing, because I know second-hand that chinese labourers have no social security benefits. Environmental impact from chinese industrial production is much less regulated, if at all. I may be hanging on the fence between the two beatiful pens for ever, because the choice seems impossible.
Great review! Not sure that i’d ever be able to warrant a pen purchase in the MZ price range. Thankfully folks make pens that are beautiful and write well in a price range that allow me to appreciate the experience.
This reminded me of a great flick I saw recently, Ford vs Ferrari. Tried my best to keep up with the nib-go-round, but found it all interesting. Doug, if I recall correctly a video you did a few months ago included some great comments about the Chinese business model, approach, etc., vis originality, creativity, incentive. All nice pens. I agree, if you want a prestige item, the copy will not suffice. Personally, if I bought the fancy one and learned that a much cheaper one looked about as nice and worked just as well, I might wonder.
Thank you, David! I haven't seen that film yet. I've been avoiding it mainly because Christian Bale is such a schmuck. And thank you for remembering my earlier piece on these issues. I dive into it in a longer RANT in my Moonman T2 review coming this Wednesday.
Thank you for the great video Doug ! You did put things right. The MZ costs ~ €160 the same price for a Pilot 742 with an FA nib, not a steel one .. (OK I'pay import duties but still...). So, you see my point... Thank you again.
Another "winner" review Doug! You covered all the bases. Like you, I agree, the writing experience is where its at (maybe that's why I have so many vintage black pens!) I actually like the Moonman's look better. The MZ would have been a real winner if the QC on the nib was better and had a reasonable price. Maybe if they eliminated the fancy packaging etc. it might have brought the price down. Any way can't wait for the next comparison. Maybe you should do a vintage Pelikan 400NN vs the Viscounti?
I'm thinking Salvatore will be making a switch to Jowo as I'm not the only one who is seeing issues with the Bock nibs. Or perhaps he has a long, hard discussion with his Bock supplier. I'd love to get my hands on a vintage Pelikan. Send one over!
Sadly Doug the Momento Zero for me, just ain't gonna happen any time soon, if ever ? But I have fallen in love with the Moonman M800 in green, big time. My darling wife assures me that it will be mine come November. And as you say there is very little difference in quality so for me it's winner winner chicken dinner all round. And as always ✌❤ to you and yours. Rob.
Hey, Rob! If the nib isn't any good when your M800 comes to you, getting a Yowo nib to swap with it is a fairly easy process. The collar and feed assemblies are not compatible, but just pull the Yowo nib out and swap it with the Moonman using the Moonman collar and feed.
I think you missed an important point. Yes the nib is still luck of the draw (even with amazing QC there is still human error) but at least you can still send it back and get it fixed or even get a replacement nib like Appelboom offered. If you buy the 50$ moonman and it doesnt write the you have to get another nib somewhere (and I dont think you can buy bock nibs seperetly anywhere)
I didn't miss the point at all Christian. I mentioned it several times that Appelboom offers free nib tuning on all of its pens. This was my first purchase from Joost and I did not see that option when I made it. I won't make that mistake again. But, my point, was, and is, Joost shouldn't HAVE to tune the nib on a $250 Cdn fountain pen. That medium should have never made it into the MZ box in the first place. As to the Moonman, Bock nibs are easily purchased separately - www.beaufortink.co.uk/bock-fountain-pen-nibs and I demonstrated swapping a $5 Penbbs #6 nib into a Moonman M800. In fact, both my M800s now have Penbbs fine nibs in them and write better than both MZ nibs even after I've tuned them.
Excellent, and tricky, comparison. Subjectively I think the MZ is more visually pleasing. At least the Blue Hawaii finish, and the way the resin is stacked like that is really nice. That said, I can't imagine paying what they are asking for.
Nice content. Enjoyed your video. I have ordered the moonman M800 and was wondering where did you order the penbbs Waverley nib from as I can’t find it anywhere?
Search the official Penbbs Etsy shop here: www.etsy.com/shop/PENBBSOfficialStore?section_id=25726322 Thy are sometimes available (higher price) on eBay as well.
@@TheJaymerc They are not called "Waverly" that is just the type of grind. They are Penbbs fine nibs and this link will take you right to a fine nib charm for $5US www.etsy.com/listing/818606490/penbbs-model-353-nib-charm-103-purple?ref=shop_home_active_2&crt=1
Hmmm Doug, you've certainly given us food for thought ! Personally I look at things in the light of "can I justify the much larger price for an item ? In my time I've been both an Archer and a Fly fisherman,( both sadly put paid to by shoulder injuries) I was a fair to middling exponent of both disciplines, and top flight equipment for both would have cost me in the region of £1500 sterling. The question I asked myself was, "will the extra outlay make me a better exponent of what in essence is a hobby" ? Both times the answer was a resounding No ! It is the same with pens for me, and in all honesty, would a £1000 pound plus Mont Blanc fountain pen make me happier than my sweet and all time favourite Osmiriod fine italic pen that was a present worth about £25 Nah, never in a million years !!! Cheers Doug, ✌❤
I understand exactly, Robert. I've played guitar for 40+ years and never had top of the line, name brand guitars. After years of trading up and then trading two for one and three for one, I have arrived, forty years later, with four grail guitars and the journey is complete. The guitars do not make me a better player, they inspire me to be a better player. As for my hand writing, I could live and excel with just my Pilot e95s alone - nothing needs to be better. But we're talking about $200 fountain pens, not $5K (my Martin) and $8K (my Gibson) guitars. My wife isn't as distressed when a new pen arrives at the door. LOL
@@InkquiringMinds It is written that it is only a fool that distresses the person who cooks his food and shares his days. For both can quickly become unpalatable. May peace and harmony always be with you. ✌❤
Great video. Whether your product is handbags, watches, cars, or digital fonts - or pens - there is essentially no protection for an original design except to provide value for money (and designers know this). After your last two videos, it's very hard to argue that Leonardo is providing 5x value offer Moonman.
Well, it’s the difference between supporting someone who hand crafts pens, vs a mass produced pen. I guess it really comes down to what you value. It’s not so much the physical cost of the materials, more the expertise of someone hand making something. There is a cut off between performances and what is just adding aesthetic-all value , when you go above a certain figure that’s essentially what you’re paying for.
Good point! I think, given a well tuned nib from the factory, the MZ Blue Hawaii is worth 3x the Moonman with a Bock nib. That covers the warranty, hand tuning (which it wasn't), packaging, original design and product support. $150US.
Another great review. The MZ could have been a KILLER pen had its nibs been better quality controlled. The sand and blue ocean finishes are absolute beauties in a market place where looks goes a long way. What interests me is that even after a 100 or so years, nib manufacturers have yet to perfect the manufacturing process of nibs, hardly rocket science. Mechanical watches are sold for 3-4$, clearly more complex than nibs, but nibs that go for 10X that need work out of the box? What gives??
Excellent points Ittai! I guess the market share for fountain pen nibs hasn't reached the threshold where it makes economic sense to have the nibs stamped, cut, engraved and tuned/polished by CNC.
Wazzzup! The answer to your question is yes and no. Yes, the Moonman M800 with the Bock nib takes standard international cartridges. And, no, the Moonman M800 with the Moonman nib does not. It takes the "China Standard" Jinhao ink cartridges.
From my perspective both are copies of the now defunct Delta . I got my Leonardo for 120 euros two years back at the same time my attention got turned on to Chinese made pens ... I, since , have picked up 20 some pen for less than the price of a Mont Blanc . They are a mixed bag . Some are excellent writers , and others are not so excellent. Ultimately I focused on Hero and Moonman . Are they copies ? . I personally wouldn't say so . They are similar in many aspects and ways but it intrigues me to suggest that Moonman is copying Leonardo ,,,,, why not the other way around?
Speaking of Italian pens and quality, you remind me to point out that Stipula was the Italian manufacturer who manufactured the pen I found incapable of writing. The nib was so bad, so dry that the pen was useless. I cannot sell it on Ebay, because I taught ethics and also served often as a pulpit minister. I would have to disclose that the pen, while inked once, was not usable. The well known vendor’s customer service did everything to make returning it hard to impossible. I do not order from the most popular vendor any more. I do not look at Stipula pens either. Rather, I will send the pen to a nib specialist. I purchased a Visconti for my wife, and I also find it to be a poor writer. I may be able to increase the flow for her. Italian pen makers a big on the bling; short on the QC.
What Stipula model was it Keith? Was it a steel or gold nib? It is a good idea to take the pen to a nib specialist and see what this issue might be. I could be something that is an easy fix. I learned my lesson in buying the Leonardo. I will probably buy another and get it from the same shop, but I will use Joost Appelboom's free nib adjusting service and have it check and tuned before shipping. But I agree with you about Italian QC.
Douglas Rathbun: I would have tried to adjust either of those metals. It was a titanium nib, which the nib expert told me are either very good or very, very bad. I did not want to try to adjust it. KW
Thanks for this information review. I count t see the benefit of pricey name brands. I don't associate with anyone who would be impressed.( I have very few friends that are fp nerds like me! )
Yup. Concerto No. 3 in F major, Op. 8, RV 293, "Spring" by Antonio Vivaldi, in HD quality! - Classical music piece performed by: John Harrison - Violin / Robert Turizziani - Conductor / Wichita State University Chamber Players
It is hard to pick between the Galaxy and the Hawaii as they are both gorgeous. I'm partial to the Galaxy because it writes better of course. But I might just swap the Galaxy's nib into the MZ for a while. I'm afraid of a lawsuit from both Moonman and Penbbs - that Beini at Penbbs is a pit bull ;).
Exceptionally well done. Sensible and well-informed. To me the deal-breaker with expensive European pens (which I love) is really the lack of attention given to nib tuning. Like you, the writing experience is everything for me, and I'm growing a bit tired of invariably having to tune nibs myself on not-cheap pens. And no, I don't think it's reasonable to expect every purchase to include an extra 30 or 40 euros to get the nib tuned by the seller...
I hear you there, but a lot of the issues are the quality of the nibs coming from bock. Only Santini and Aurora make their own nibs in Italy as far as I’m aware. The issue being when you have high demand and only 2 people working on pens, the QC does take a hit alas :( as for nib tuning/testing most companies will test the nib for free if you especially request it. I’m not making excuses for Leonardo, I think they are big enough now to hire staff especially to QC nibs!
Yes, I mention that a few times that Appelboom will tune your nibs for free. My point was, at that price, the company should be testing each pen before it goes into the box even if it is by eyeballing to make sure it doesn't look like a German pretzel.
Well said! And as I said a few times and Pen Friends mentioned again here, Appelboom provides this service for free and I will avail myself of that on my next purchase from Joost.
Thank you, Douglas, for the time and effort you put into this. It's a delicate subject - homage vs. copy - and I think you handled it perfectly.
Wow, thank you, Jeff! :)
Thank you for this video, very informative and well done
Glad you enjoyed it!
Excellent video as always. You covered the copy/homage/inspired by question very well. I will never be able to afford a zero and I am very happy with my amber 800 with bock nib. It is a beauty. Amber is now my favourite finish but it’s so hard to find.
Looking forward To your T2 review. Mine is a joy to use bar continually unscrewing the bottom section..hey ho, a small criticism.
Well done and keep them coming.
Much appreciated, Allan. The T2 review (and included RANT) will be up on Wednesday. I couldn't afford this Leonardo either but people like you paid for it for me. I used my revenue from my first two months of CZcams monetized videos to pay (well mostly pay) for the MZ. So, thanks!
Thank you for making this video. The M800s have just enough differences so that they don't violate the copyright - they used the Leonardo as "inspiration". I have a purple M800 with the Moonman nib and an MZ in Lavanda purple. (bc covid and we were all going to die and I thought why not?) And I look at both and wonder where all that extra money really did go. It is nice having both (and I got a great deal on the MZ) but when I really think that I could have had all 4 colors of the M800 for the same price....:( Ah, well. Live and Learn. Looking forward to the T2!
International copyright is the stuff of nightmares for brand names. There is no way that Salvatore would even think of getting into that morass. It isn't worth the time, money or effort. The Leonardo line is incredibly beautiful and they make fascinating and gorgeous products. Once they've solved their nib problems (by switching to Jowo), they won't even need to glance at Moonman in the rear view mirror. Thanks for watching and supporting my channel Liz. You will see the T2 review (and my 10 minute RANT) on Wednesday!
Great video, as always.
Thanks again!
These are all beautiful pens. I love the looks of the M800 so much I put one on order and had to order it in Galaxy Blue in your honor. MM did a great job with this all around as far as creating enough true differences to set it apart and yet create a beautiful pen in it's own right. Now I'm saving my pennies for a MZG2.0 in Baobab Spaghetti Resin. Thank you Doug!
Good choice!
I'll be more impressed when Chinese companies like Moonman actually start innovating. As opposed to aping other manufacturers' creations. Magna Carta for example are doing excellent, original designs from India. Very desirable pens.
Thanks for the honesty. I'll probably be getting an m800 soon as I don't think I can quite stomach the m600 price.
Although it's cheaper for Moonman to make their own nibs, I still have respect that they do, as I believe they can design their nibs the way they want, similar to Lamy's easy nib replacement and Sailors unique feedback.
Fair enough! Might even be worth it to have a Moonman steel nib tuned by a nibmeister.
Doug, Really enjoyed the two vids on the LOIMZ. I have a LOI Furore and I love it. Thankfully, my LOI wrote spectacularly right out of the gate. I opted for the Furore over the MZ after I got my Moonman M800 and swapped in a Nemosine Nib - following your lead. That pen (M800) is one of the top pens in my collection. Thanks again for the time and effort you utilize to make these vids for us. As referenced above, they really do have an impact in the community.
Thanks GLC! I’m Jonesing for a Furore “Salt”. Gorgeous pen. Of course I’d have Joost do the nib first.
@@InkquiringMinds mine is Blue Galaxy. The Salt is a very handsome pen.
Nicely and fairly done Doug. Now I’m looking forward to the T2 evaluation. My husband found it too heavy so I inherited it. It is my everyday writer for my journal. Out of the box nib without a bit of tuning and I love it.
Right on! The T2 review will be up Wednesday morning. I'm just doing some editing now. I'm afraid that I've included a soap box rant in the middle of it. ;)
Douglas Rathbun I'm looking forward to the rant! :)
Douglas Rathbun I’m with Jeff. Like your rants too.
MZ to keep the video under an hour...Love ya, Sir Doug!
Pretend 😉
LOL
Thanks, Stacy!
Thanks for a very good and fair comparison of these pens. I really appreciate the down to earth manner you used to do this video review, as opposed to the comparison done by Goldspot pens, it was extremely clear that Tom had an ax to grind being a retailer for the MZ pen line. I bought the galaxy blue moonman with the moonman fine nib, and hav we swapped it out with a fine jowo nib from Goulet pens and I absolutely love the pen and all the comments I get from others about the pen. Enjoy the weekend and keep creating your wonderful videos. Thanks Richard
I had a couple of issues with Goldspot's comparison. One was about the "sharp" threads on the M800 - they are so far from being sharp it is ridiculous. That was just a bold faced fabrication. The other has to do with the warranty and quality control "extras" you get with Leonardo. I showed the QC was definitely not there and as to warranty, it is great my MZ is under warranty for life (against defects) but if my Moonman M800 is bad, I can get another for $25 - the price of an MZ nib. I'm glad to see you have a Jowo in your M800. Is the Jowo gold? I think that is the future for Leonardo - Jowo nibs.
@@InkquiringMinds no just a two tone steel nib, but as I am learning there is not a huge difference between gold and steel nibs if they are properly tuned, unless the gold nib has a little softness giving some line variation. Concerning the sharp threads I agree with you on that item and noted that in my comments left on Goldspot review. Keep up the picking and pen reviews.
Oh so Goulet is still selling the two-toned Jowo nib? The website said they were discontinued!
@@InkquiringMinds well I have had this one for about 2 years, that's a shame as the 2 tone really looks good 👍
@@RichardSmith-uw6st I just looked. They are still selling down their stock of two-toned nibs. They now only have EF, 1.1 and 1.5 left.
Great review! I would watch you review drying paint because I know you'd somehow make it interesting & entertaining! My m800's are great pens and neither needed any tuning (one Bock, one Moonman nib). But if they had needed some attention I would not have been too disappointed because I know they're mass produced and the price reflects that. If I spent 5-10 times as much, however, on a pen and it had issues, I would be totally disappointed & probably a bit pissed off! On another note, you have some really fine guitars and they sound great, as does your voice! Thank you for sharing your talents! Too many exclamation points, I know, can't help it.
LOL next up Jeff; does Behr dry faster than CIL? Thanks my friend!
I have the LMZ. Fantastic fountain pen, in every way. Stellar colors, build quality, style & appearance. And, of course, a delightful writer. It’s really the sort of pen that is truly worth saving up for if one cannot afford to buy it straightaway.
The M800 is clearly a blatant take-off of the LMZ. But my main gripe is with the indifferent, unreliable quality of recent Moonman nibs. Very hit & miss stuff. And the M800, to me, feels like a clearly inferior emulation of far superior pen. I’d recommend everybody, at least in this particular case, to forego the copy and opt for the original. LMZ is endlessly lovely.
I've had about 75% hits on Moonman nibs out of the box and ZERO FOR TWO out of the box for Leonardo. All miss, no hits. The Moonman nibs that missed were fairly easy to fix. I'm STILL working on the two LMZ nibs. The LMZ is a freaking gorgeous pen, but like I said in my review, it is an expensive nib holder. If it doesn't write out of the box why did I pay $250 Cdn?
Douglas Rathbun ...Really? 2/2 duds from Leonardo. That’s an awful let-down. And indefensible for such pricey pens from a premium brand. With inexpensive Chinese pens, we’re justly more forgiving. No reason to be the same for pens costing ten times or more as much.
I have two Leonardo pens. Luckily, both turned out fantastic. The main reason I recommended the LMZ highly is because mine turned out to be so outstanding all round. Especially, and most importantly as always, due to the superb steel nib and the writing experience. It writes as good as gold, hence my acceptance of the $220 I paid for it as being quite worth it.
My first three Moonman nibs were extremely good and fun to use. The next three turned out disappointments - too dry, too fine, too stiff and just underwhelming overall. And random skipping, too. I’m rarely a tinkerer with nibs, so if it’s not right straight out of the box, it ruins everything for me. At any rate, I’ve never liked being forced to settle for the default F nibs on otherwise pretty, reliable, affordable Chinese pens. Now, I’ve quit wanting and buying any of them - until something special comes along with nib options I like a lot more.
Excellent! Thanks Sanjjad, for sharing your experience! I will still highly recommend Leonardo even with the issues I experienced. Amazing works of art.
@@sajjadhusain4146 I believe most steel nibs can be made to write with the same smoothness as a well-tuned gold nib - other than the gold bounce you can get with some gold nibs.
I have two Leonardos and two M-800's. I use the Leonardos exclusively at home and use the M-800's at work.
And if the M800 breaks, you buy another. If the MZ breaks, you get another under warranty (if you didn't drop it of course).
I have a Moonman M80 Mini. Sure, it's close to a Parker 45, but it does something (very well) that Parker never did. I've swapped a gold Parker nib and feed into it, and it's a pretty excellent pocket pen.
Parker GAVE the design and technology for the Parker 45 to Hero in 1979. In 2020, people are pissed that the Chinese are ripping off Parker when the majority of Parker pens are now manufactured in the east.
@@InkquiringMinds Absolutely!
This is exactly the video I’ve been needing, I’m so relieved to know that the Moonman is just as nice as the Leonardo. Well... so close anyway, that acrylic from Leonardo is GORGEOUS, if I weren’t on a fixed income I’d spring for that one too.
Glad I could help!
Following the chain of “inspired by”, these both owe their major design cues to Wahl-Eversharp Equi-poised.
A LOT of these designs go back through the years and development of various pens... Omas, Delta and on and on.
Have all 4 Moonman colors-love that pen!
Thanks, Barb! I'm thinking of getting the green and the purple.
One thing I would like to mention is that the Blue Hawaii is more expensive than some of the other MZ finishes. I sort of wish you had compared to a "regular" finish.
Yes, Terri. But, the Moonman Galaxy and Amber finishes are head and shoulders over the less expensive LMZ finish options. I think the comparison is closer to apples to apples with these finishes.
@@InkquiringMinds Hmm I don't know that I would say they are head and shoulders over the other LMZ but okay.
Okay I gushed a bit. But the Galaxy is, no I can’t say it, alright I will, out of this world! 🤠
@@InkquiringMinds LOL They do have some very cool finishes and they tempt me, but perhaps I will do that with a pen that doesn't seem quite so copycat-ish to me.
Your excellent argumentation on the likeness of these two brands of pens, made me dive into the my drawers. I suspected I had seen another copy of the Leonardo design, and I was rigth. The copy in question is called Aurea - not the Aurora Aurea modell. It’s is scaringly similar to the Leonardo, almost identical in design and size. It even copies the great marble effects on the Leonardo. The clip is almost identical, attached to the cap in the same way, and comes with a roller clip.
They did make a couple of tweaks to their design to distinguish their pens from the Leonardo pens. The Aurea was made in green marble celluloid, it has a button filler - real old school - and the trim on the Aurea is silver colured. Because of these details, there is really no way they can be accused of preying on the famous Leonardo design. The Aurea company is far gone anyway, and never made it to the charts in it’s day. Being made in 30s or 40s, they were indeed in the forefront of pen design.
That's fascinating Ove! I would expect a pen made in the 20's or 30's could not possibly be accused of stealing a design by a company founded in 2018! LOL Thanks for this information. Now I'm on the hunt for an Aurea!
@@InkquiringMinds They are invisible in the pen markets/pen history sites. Weird, because my pen is of very high quality. I will try to take a picture of the Aurea and my Moonman m800 together, and mail it to you. I'm not very good at pen-pictures, so it will be very rudimentory.
Great work Doug - sorry I missed the premiere!
There was a premiere? I missed it too.
@@InkquiringMinds I think that's what they call it when you schedule it to show at a particular time?? 😬
Jamerelbe LOL. Yeah I know. ;)
So I am starting to realize a few items. The pen itself(the outsides or holder portions of the nib) seems to be the eye candy only and really doesn’t play much into whether or not it is an ultimately enjoyable pen. The NIB is truly the deciding factor in whether a pen is truly going to be a favorite or not. Sure, everyone likes the bright and shiny package but when it comes down to it, it if doesn’t perform it won’t stand the test of time when it comes to being used. Doug, you have taught me a great deal over these past 6 months or so about fountain peens and what makes a good one etc... I’d love to see more videos about how a nib can truly make a pen better and how pens can be improved with swapping nibs etc. To me, this is where you can gain the most improvement in a pen that might not be performing so well. Love what you are bringing to the fountain pen review arena Doug, keep bringing us the great detail and informative videos.
Thanks so much Andy! I don't think it is as simple as the outside of the MZ is the shiny eye candy. I said it in both my videos on the MZ, the MZ is just a BRILLIANT fountain pen design in my option. The shape, girth, section, balance, over all look of the pen is close to perfect. Yes, Leonardo has borrowed from the design elements of other pens in history (the Wahl, the Delta (which Salvatore designed so he's stealing from himself lol)). What great designer doesn't steal? But where the rubber hits the road is where the nib touches the paper and a great pen design cannot survive an awful nib. I'm starting to save up for a Leonardo Furore now. That's how impressed I am with Salvatore's designs even given the disappointments I had with the nibs.
@@InkquiringMinds nice!... wow that is saying a lot coming from someone who absolutely loves his cheap crappy chinese pens. Lol.... so you do think the extra money IS worth it in terms of fit, finish and feel in the hand? I know I am years away from even considering spending $100s on a pen. Maybe one day. Thanks Doug.
At the current price I think that this Blue Hawaii is about $75 US over priced for what you get. But saying that, I understand the price point as they are in demand and low in supply. I want to get a Jowo nib from Goulet to put in a purple M800 but the shipping to Canada from NJ is more than the nib.
@@InkquiringMinds would love to see you do a Nib specific video. What nibs are usually the best, what makes a good nib in your opinion...maybe some comparisons in how they write....etc....for me as a noob I have no idea what to look for in a nib other than F, M, B, etc. Another reason I find your channel so informative. Thanks for that.
@@agradoville That's not a bad idea although I don't consider myself an expert in any way. Just a consumer. But, I do have gold nibs and steel nibs and stubs of various sizes. Maybe if I get my custom ground architect italic, that would be a good impetus to put together a video overview. Thanks for the suggestion Andy! :)
Thanks, Doug. The review, as usual, very informative and entertaining. About the IP infraction (allegedly), as you mentioned: some people may want to get the "real deal" after getting a taste with the moonman... but I'm gonna be honest, neither of the two brands attract me... more so as how the pandemic is progressing on my country (I live in México)... 😭...
Thank you for the video Doug. I hope your having a blast with the nib tuning and write-testing of your Italian beauty... Me, I'm saving my money for either getting another French belle (Carène) or maybe a Japanese bishōjo (Pilot 74 or 823)... or maybe a German wunderschönen (Montblanc 146) 😂.
Thank you, and I hope you and your loved ones stay safe and healthy 🙏.
I can't wait to show you a writing sample with my belle de France Carène when it comes back!
When writing many pages in warm weather, I find the section shape doesn't work for me. My fingers slide down & I get ink on my fingers (not that its a bad thing). Not sure why the section is designed that way, in my hand not functional. When I first wrote with one in a show I did not like section design. I enjoyed your thorough comparison as I have no plans to own a Leonardo (the section). Yes, it is a pretty Italian, but you pay a lot for pretty. The M800 is pretty in its own way. Needing to tune or replace a nib on a $25 pen is OK not on a $170 pen.
Thanks, Chris. I really like the section. I hold the pen a little higher up and don't have the problem of slipping down the section. Not true with the Moonman T2 though!
I agree that that the M800 is a copy, but I'm not sure the design is copyrightable. It is a handsome pen, but as you pointed out with the clip, most of its design elements are not new. Only the section looks distinctive to my eye. Are pen workers in China less skilled than those in Italy?
Precisely, John! Precisely! Well said. I asked Salvatore for information about his company (history etc) and he promise he'd send it by email a couple of months ago. Nothing. They are busy I'm sure. But I have no idea how many people are working in the Leonardo shop. But, I'm willing to bet, the acrylic turning process and parts assembly process isn't that much different in Florence than it is in Shanghai. The wages certainly are different. I doubt the skill level is that much different. There is no difference in the fit and finish between these two pens.
Well, for me it’s a bit ethically confusing, because I know second-hand that chinese labourers have no social security benefits. Environmental impact from chinese industrial production is much less regulated, if at all. I may be hanging on the fence between the two beatiful pens for ever, because the choice seems impossible.
I agree 100% John. But that makes 90% of your purchases challenging ethically. I talk about this next Wednesday in my review of the Moonman T2.
Great review! Not sure that i’d ever be able to warrant a pen purchase in the MZ price range. Thankfully folks make pens that are beautiful and write well in a price range that allow me to appreciate the experience.
Couldn't agree more!
This reminded me of a great flick I saw recently, Ford vs Ferrari. Tried my best to keep up with the nib-go-round, but found it all interesting. Doug, if I recall correctly a video you did a few months ago included some great comments about the Chinese business model, approach, etc., vis originality, creativity, incentive. All nice pens. I agree, if you want a prestige item, the copy will not suffice. Personally, if I bought the fancy one and learned that a much cheaper one looked about as nice and worked just as well, I might wonder.
Thank you, David! I haven't seen that film yet. I've been avoiding it mainly because Christian Bale is such a schmuck. And thank you for remembering my earlier piece on these issues. I dive into it in a longer RANT in my Moonman T2 review coming this Wednesday.
Thank you for the great video Doug ! You did put things right. The MZ costs ~ €160 the same price for a Pilot 742 with an FA nib, not a steel one .. (OK I'pay import duties but still...). So, you see my point...
Thank you again.
Well said! I paid import duties and taxes as well on the MZ.
That was an excellent and balanced review!
Thanks, J! I have to get (some) of your pens back to you soon. I'm still going to do the Faber Castell and the Fuliwen 2014
Another "winner" review Doug! You covered all the bases. Like you, I agree, the writing experience is where its at (maybe that's why I have so many vintage black pens!) I actually like the Moonman's look better. The MZ would have been a real winner if the QC on the nib was better and had a reasonable price. Maybe if they eliminated the fancy packaging etc. it might have brought the price down. Any way can't wait for the next comparison. Maybe you should do a vintage Pelikan 400NN vs the Viscounti?
I'm thinking Salvatore will be making a switch to Jowo as I'm not the only one who is seeing issues with the Bock nibs. Or perhaps he has a long, hard discussion with his Bock supplier. I'd love to get my hands on a vintage Pelikan. Send one over!
@@InkquiringMinds Still looking for one I can afford!
I reviewed my friend’s 1980’s Pelikan M200 and even replaced the nib. It is a lovely, though small pen. I’d love to try a Pelikan M800 Souveran!
Sadly Doug the Momento Zero for me, just ain't gonna happen any time soon, if ever ? But I have fallen in love with the Moonman M800 in green, big time. My darling wife assures me that it will be mine come November. And as you say there is very little difference in quality so for me it's winner winner chicken dinner all round. And as always ✌❤ to you and yours. Rob.
Hey, Rob! If the nib isn't any good when your M800 comes to you, getting a Yowo nib to swap with it is a fairly easy process. The collar and feed assemblies are not compatible, but just pull the Yowo nib out and swap it with the Moonman using the Moonman collar and feed.
I think you missed an important point. Yes the nib is still luck of the draw (even with amazing QC there is still human error) but at least you can still send it back and get it fixed or even get a replacement nib like Appelboom offered. If you buy the 50$ moonman and it doesnt write the you have to get another nib somewhere (and I dont think you can buy bock nibs seperetly anywhere)
I didn't miss the point at all Christian. I mentioned it several times that Appelboom offers free nib tuning on all of its pens. This was my first purchase from Joost and I did not see that option when I made it. I won't make that mistake again. But, my point, was, and is, Joost shouldn't HAVE to tune the nib on a $250 Cdn fountain pen. That medium should have never made it into the MZ box in the first place. As to the Moonman, Bock nibs are easily purchased separately - www.beaufortink.co.uk/bock-fountain-pen-nibs and I demonstrated swapping a $5 Penbbs #6 nib into a Moonman M800. In fact, both my M800s now have Penbbs fine nibs in them and write better than both MZ nibs even after I've tuned them.
Excellent, and tricky, comparison. Subjectively I think the MZ is more visually pleasing. At least the Blue Hawaii finish, and the way the resin is stacked like that is really nice. That said, I can't imagine paying what they are asking for.
Thanks, Ian!
Nice content. Enjoyed your video. I have ordered the moonman M800 and was wondering where did you order the penbbs Waverley nib from as I can’t find it anywhere?
Search the official Penbbs Etsy shop here: www.etsy.com/shop/PENBBSOfficialStore?section_id=25726322 Thy are sometimes available (higher price) on eBay as well.
Douglas Rathbun thanks for that...I did a search in the official Etsy store but couldn’t find any Waverley nibs. Can’t find them on eBay either
@@TheJaymerc They are not called "Waverly" that is just the type of grind. They are Penbbs fine nibs and this link will take you right to a fine nib charm for $5US www.etsy.com/listing/818606490/penbbs-model-353-nib-charm-103-purple?ref=shop_home_active_2&crt=1
I seem to be indifferent to IP issues. Gimme a Moonman.
Atta boy!
The Chinese make some very innovative, good quality, reasonably priced pens. Try a Duke 551 Fude nib fountain pen.
Thank you, Andrew! Yeah! I have a number of really good Chinese fountain pens! The best are PenBBS and Moonman.
Hmmm Doug, you've certainly given us food for thought ! Personally I look at things in the light of "can I justify the much larger price for an item ? In my time I've been both an Archer and a Fly fisherman,( both sadly put paid to by shoulder injuries) I was a fair to middling exponent of both disciplines, and top flight equipment for both would have cost me in the region of £1500 sterling. The question I asked myself was, "will the extra outlay make me a better exponent of what in essence is a hobby" ? Both times the answer was a resounding No ! It is the same with pens for me, and in all honesty, would a £1000 pound plus Mont Blanc fountain pen make me happier than my sweet and all time favourite Osmiriod fine italic pen that was a present worth about £25 Nah, never in a million years !!! Cheers Doug, ✌❤
I understand exactly, Robert. I've played guitar for 40+ years and never had top of the line, name brand guitars. After years of trading up and then trading two for one and three for one, I have arrived, forty years later, with four grail guitars and the journey is complete. The guitars do not make me a better player, they inspire me to be a better player. As for my hand writing, I could live and excel with just my Pilot e95s alone - nothing needs to be better. But we're talking about $200 fountain pens, not $5K (my Martin) and $8K (my Gibson) guitars. My wife isn't as distressed when a new pen arrives at the door. LOL
@@InkquiringMinds It is written that it is only a fool that distresses the person who cooks his food and shares his days. For both can quickly become unpalatable. May peace and harmony always be with you. ✌❤
Good stuff. Now that i have my moonman i will not buy and other Leonardo... Why spent that much money when you get a superb pen for half the price?
I dunno Luc. I’m Jonesing for a Furore Salt.
Great video. Whether your product is handbags, watches, cars, or digital fonts - or pens - there is essentially no protection for an original design except to provide value for money (and designers know this). After your last two videos, it's very hard to argue that Leonardo is providing 5x value offer Moonman.
Well, it’s the difference between supporting someone who hand crafts pens, vs a mass produced pen. I guess it really comes down to what you value. It’s not so much the physical cost of the materials, more the expertise of someone hand making something. There is a cut off between performances and what is just adding aesthetic-all value , when you go above a certain figure that’s essentially what you’re paying for.
Nicely said. That cutoff for me is $100 Cdn lower than the current price on the MZ.
Good point! I think, given a well tuned nib from the factory, the MZ Blue Hawaii is worth 3x the Moonman with a Bock nib. That covers the warranty, hand tuning (which it wasn't), packaging, original design and product support. $150US.
Douglas Rathbun is that for any pen?
I said “on the MZ”
Another great review. The MZ could have been a KILLER pen had its nibs been better quality controlled. The sand and blue ocean finishes are absolute beauties in a market place where looks goes a long way. What interests me is that even after a 100 or so years, nib manufacturers have yet to perfect the manufacturing process of nibs, hardly rocket science. Mechanical watches are sold for 3-4$, clearly more complex than nibs, but nibs that go for 10X that need work out of the box? What gives??
Excellent points Ittai! I guess the market share for fountain pen nibs hasn't reached the threshold where it makes economic sense to have the nibs stamped, cut, engraved and tuned/polished by CNC.
¿What's up Dough?.. ¿Does de Moonman M-800 not take standard international cardriges?.
Wazzzup! The answer to your question is yes and no. Yes, the Moonman M800 with the Bock nib takes standard international cartridges. And, no, the Moonman M800 with the Moonman nib does not. It takes the "China Standard" Jinhao ink cartridges.
@@InkquiringMinds Alright.. Thanks pal.. 👍👍🇪🇸🇪🇸
From my perspective both are copies of the now defunct Delta . I got my Leonardo for 120 euros two years back at the same time my attention got turned on to Chinese made pens ... I, since , have picked up 20 some pen for less than the price of a Mont Blanc . They are a mixed bag . Some are excellent writers , and others are not so excellent. Ultimately I focused on Hero and Moonman .
Are they copies ? . I personally wouldn't say so . They are similar in many aspects and ways but it intrigues me to suggest that Moonman is copying Leonardo ,,,,, why not the other way around?
Leonardo has the better claim to the Delta design since it was Salvatore that designed that pen and recreated it in the new company.
Speaking of Italian pens and quality, you remind me to point out that Stipula was the Italian manufacturer who manufactured the pen I found incapable of writing. The nib was so bad, so dry that the pen was useless. I cannot sell it on Ebay, because I taught ethics and also served often as a pulpit minister. I would have to disclose that the pen, while inked once, was not usable. The well known vendor’s customer service did everything to make returning it hard to impossible. I do not order from the most popular vendor any more. I do not look at Stipula pens either. Rather, I will send the pen to a nib specialist. I purchased a Visconti for my wife, and I also find it to be a poor writer. I may be able to increase the flow for her. Italian pen makers a big on the bling; short on the QC.
What Stipula model was it Keith? Was it a steel or gold nib? It is a good idea to take the pen to a nib specialist and see what this issue might be. I could be something that is an easy fix. I learned my lesson in buying the Leonardo. I will probably buy another and get it from the same shop, but I will use Joost Appelboom's free nib adjusting service and have it check and tuned before shipping. But I agree with you about Italian QC.
Douglas Rathbun: I would have tried to adjust either of those metals. It was a titanium nib, which the nib expert told me are either very good or very, very bad. I did not want to try to adjust it. KW
@@keithwhitney7491 That makes total sense.
Thanks for this information review. I count t see the benefit of pricey name brands. I don't associate with anyone who would be impressed.( I have very few friends that are fp nerds like me! )
Glad it was helpful! Thanks Bill.
Vivaldi 4 seasons?
Yup. Concerto No. 3 in F major, Op. 8, RV 293, "Spring" by Antonio Vivaldi, in HD quality!
- Classical music piece performed by: John Harrison - Violin / Robert Turizziani - Conductor / Wichita State University Chamber Players
To me, the Moonman is much more beautiful...
It is hard to pick between the Galaxy and the Hawaii as they are both gorgeous. I'm partial to the Galaxy because it writes better of course. But I might just swap the Galaxy's nib into the MZ for a while. I'm afraid of a lawsuit from both Moonman and Penbbs - that Beini at Penbbs is a pit bull ;).
Moonman: lower price and easier name. 😊
Moonman: cooler brand name.
Uomo Della Luna!
Sir, you are a provocateur!
Them’s fightin’ words, Manuel.