How Should We Teach Science?
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- čas přidán 8. 06. 2024
- Reflecting on the implications for education of Gunn and Drew.
Original video: ve42.co/GunDrew
Did you notice that Gunn and Drew were named that way so they rhyme with one and two, helping reduce any sort of confusion you might have in associating each character with the right system.
Thinking Fast and Slow by Daniel Kahneman is one of my favourite books (in case you hadn't guessed). I think the findings he summarizes in it really resonated with me and collected a lot of strands (or chunks) of my thinking.
One of the main findings I think we forget is that working memory is limited. This needs to be taken into account in every educational discussion. We can't simply talk philosophically about the purposes of education. We must also discuss the brain's response to different teaching methods, because ultimately that's what we are trying to affect.
To me the psychology of system one and two suggests we need to be careful to give students challenges that are within their 'zone of proximal development' i.e. capable for Drew to Grasp because Gunn has already automated a lot of tasks relevant to this challenge.
"It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled.”
― Mark Twain
When I was studying engineering at the University the first year they teached us how to use formulas but not so much about where they came from, so it was difficult at first to understand was I was really doing. Then I began to study mathematics and that was a big change in teaching methodology. The teachers explained why the formulas worked and where they came from and it was much easier for me to understand and study. Personally if I don't the "how and why" it's difficult to maintain interest in any subject. Sorry for bad english.
Ikr! One of my highschool math teachers would always explain why the formula is the way it is. She would say that that explanation wasn't part of the test and wasn't necessary to solve the exercises, but that it would help us to understand why things are the way they are. It did help. A lot!
On the other hand, I never got to know, for example, why the pythagoras theorem is the way it is. It doesn't make sense to me why it works. And this is the case for most of the math concepts I learnt before I had that teacher, who btw wasn't following school guidelines; it was her idea to teach us math that way.
M.C. V.A. Did you enjoy engineering?
M.C. V.A. at least in chemistry there's quite a few formulas and ideas that come from quantum mechanics which I know I would not have understood at the time. so it's kinda a hit or miss if understanding where the ideas and formulas came from would help
+morethejamesx39 not so much, but I think it was because of the way they taught us, the university was bad, and after a while it became unbearable (one teacher said that we had too "Google" as our bibliography)
Halfway through reading the initial comment, I was gonna reply "you should be doing Physics then!", but I see you basically beat me to it!
My personal learning trick for exams back in school and university
were cheat sheets, that I actually never used during the test.
Because I had little space on the note, I couldn't fit every bit of information and had to select only the important stuff. In order to filter out redundant information, I had to get some understanding of the topic first and was forced to think through the matter. But this was actually less painful for me, than simply memorizing the whole stuff. Most of my study time I spend making the cheat sheet and reduced it step-by-step to a half-page note or so.
Most importantly, I memorized everything on the sheet in the end without actually learning. So, due to making the cheat sheet, a cheat sheet was unnecessary in the end.
I don't think of me as an hard-working and ambitious person. I'm lazy and I delay the important stuff to very end.
But in a sense, my laziness actually helped me learning, because a searched for a different way for studying.
the same thing I does now, I am a high school student. can you give me tips to study for my exam? should I stop making cheat sheet?
If a cheat sheet can help at your learning, you can use them during preparation for your exam.
In my opinion, the important thing is not the cheat sheet itself. If you can sum up the relevant information in a nutshell, you got a deeper insight into the topic. Actual understanding is more important than pure memorization and it's worthwhile for the long term. But it requires more thinking through the matter and more studying time.
If a cheat sheet can help at your learning, you can use them during preparation for your exam.
In my opinion, the important thing is not the cheat sheet itself. If you can sum up the relevant information in a nutshell, you got a deeper insight into the topic. Actual understanding is more important than pure memorization and it's worthwhile for the long term. But it requires more thinking through the matter and more studying time.
When i was in uni and i had to memorize whole tomes of books for the exams, here is what i did: First read everything once. Then reread it, while underlining the most importand information. And for last, read again whatever you underlined and at the same time sum it up in a notepad. That way you'll have all the essence of a book in a couple of notepad pages. Just refresh your notes before your test and you're set!
Your comment lays down the theoretic foundation of bringing one piece of A4 paper in the exam where you can write anything in it :) I do seriously think every teacher should read your comment.
It sounds like the ideal level of difficulty for learning is similar to how just the right level of challenge is required to introduce flow. Too easy == boredom. Too hard == overwhelmsion. Just right == maximized learning and productivity.
Yes, it is unfortunate that, at least in the US school system, most classes are taught at a level that will engage the most commonly encountered Drews, leaving those at the lower and upper bounds disengaged.
Thats true. We need Drew to engage with Gun and with the material simultaneously, so that we can actually store it into our memory 'with understanding' rather than trying to 'rote learn'.
@@AC0KG I agree - I think school should be set up more like college, where students are put in class by their ability, what they want to study, and what they want to do in secondary school or college, instead of their age. So if you struggle with English you might be put in one class, and if you are really good at maths you might be put in another for that subject.
Something I just thought of when watching this video:
Sometimes when I'm not focused at all, but I've told myself I'd read this chapter of a book (usually when studying), some weird thing happens where I did read every single word on the page, but after reading it all, I can't remember a single word except for those that are still in my short-term memory.
After watching this video (and the 1Veritasium one), I assume it is because my "Drew" simply zones out, my "Gun" does continue to read the page, and thinks it's reading the page (because it can recognise words), but it simply doesn't store any of that information anywhere.
Still, it's a weird realisation after reading an entire page, that you've stored nothing of that reading in your memory...
guess it was too fast for that moment for the drew to pick it all up. somewhere i read that taking pauses before each new information helps to dig it more. like when i tried to read book super fast, where i barely remembered plot lines, then after - i read a book veeeery slowly (almost arrogating myself)... but, after that, i could turn any page - read one sentence, and i could recall everything what happens in the page.
I think its about intention. If you understand and believe that you actually want that information in your brain/memories/life then the learning becomes the same as if you heard an interesting story from a friend.
I don't usually comment on videos, but I just wanted to mention that happens to me quite frequently as well. Often times I have to slowly reread a page about 3 or 4 times until I actually comprehend what I'm attempting to learn.
I often notice my memory fails to store information while reading CZcams comments. Sometimes I find people explain concepts quite intuitively, yet by the time I go to watch a different video I typically have completely forgotten what I read.
Take care! :)
joeytje50 same here.
Got that one a lot when studying computer graphics programming before it became ingrained enough that new techniques are easily picked up. I remember reading about Strauss lighting model, same article a good 10 or so times before it sunk in and I was able to write some code based on it. Strauss' lighting model really isn't that complicated, mathematically it is but logically it's simple. It baffled me considering the other 9 lighting models I learned in that time span were considerably more complicated but sunk in first read.
Honestly I think it's a matter of poor information layout. In the case of that article on Strauss lighting model, some of the key pieces of information were in the last couple sentences of a pair of paragraphs. Had that information been moved to maybe the 3rd or 4th sentence in, everything else can be extrapolated without even reading the rest of it.
I've been a maths tutor for 3 years. These last 2 videos you've posted have dramatically increased my understanding of learning and my students should benefit greatly. Thank you so much
knowledge isn't understanding, time will tell how much you think you learned.
i was just thinking how a professor watching this video would help much more the students than a student watching the video, and 90% of the viwers are students that cant really be helped by the video
@o2n3 the students of today are the professors of tomorrow
Happy to help! I was a tutor for years before I became a tutor of sorts on the internet.
2veritasium , your PhD work have finally put to rest a conundrum that I, as a university professor, struggled about for 25 years: should we educators proactively debunk common misconceptions among students, or should we not cite them for fear that they end up sticking in their minds ?
Pretty much all you presented in your more "meta" videos about making videos, and the littérature I read beyond, tend to suggest that citing common misconceptions in a lecture is a safe bet.
You would be surprised (or maybe not) at how often this debate shows up among us educators, and how heated it can become.
So, thank you for guiding me through to a better insight into the right answer to that dilemma.
The critique of "sounding deep" but being nonsense describes 19/20 of TED talks. But I think you can learn from videos. Veritasium generally presents info in a way that viewers can engage and activate system II. So too the Welch Labs series on complex numbers -- but it is not a background series by any means.
I became very excited about TED when it first started and I watched many of their videos, but when I realized they were also giving the stage to, and thus legitimizing, some very unscientific people I was very disappointed. At least nothing engages system II quite like hearing complete bullshit.
Otterpus TED is not science organization
* I suck at college but CZcams science videos make me feel like I learn something but after seeing this I feel so hopeless! 😢😧😩 I hope I'm not alone.
How the hell did you get -1 views ?? :D
Abhijit Shinde That's his name, silly.
Studies show you're not alone. On the other hand, I don't know you. You just might be an exception. If you really want to know if you've learned something, try to contradict what you were just told or make other connections based on it. It's not watching the videos that teaches you, it's thinking about them afterwards that does.
But what does it matter? Chances are you're great at something else other than science. Or maybe you're young enough to be able to get good at science some day. Point is, keep watching and if you do it enough, some of it will rub off. And every little bit of that makes you a little bit better than what you used to be and certainly better than what we call "the masses". Even if you don't actually learn anything physical, you'll at least learn how to think better and that's way more important
*This motivational message has been brought to you by 6 cans of beer and a bag of weed
-1 views HHAHAaaaaaa, I think I need to retry hare's psychopathy checklist revised
No shit, Sherlock ( Now this makes sense, lol)
Great deconstruction! You are right about balance between making things entertaining and challenging being an art, especially when your audience has a diverse background. It also makes me wonder where engaging the emotions fits in? I think making people feel something is a really good way of making things stick. My guess is that the information seems more important if it comes with some emotional clout, which makes our brains pay more attention to it. But I'm not familiar with any research on this and whether it helps with comprehension.
A big problem I've had with math and science, was "what is this building towards?" I'm learning all these formulas or equations and it isn't really clear what I will understand or when, nevermind how I will use them. Maybe that's the wrong way of thinking about it, but many students seem to think in that way. To me, math and science classes feel more like getting fit than "learning". Getting fit is a way of life, not a goal. You go over peaks and valleys but it's a lifelong journey, it's never really over.
A few thoughts, first of all is the use and relevance of educational video's on youtube. I really like to watch a lot of them but I never have the illusion I really learn anything from them. Some parts go too fast, some parts are too slow (and Drew zones out), sometimes times there is too much information and sometime I just forget parts due to lack of repetition. I view these video's as entertainment, not educational. It is very different from some of the video's my teacher makes (i study at a university) which do not try to entertain. There is more motivation to learn, cause there is a short quiz at the end. So I take notes, pause the video and watch it multiple times to really understand the content. It is boring, but I do really learn a lot.
Then about the active participation of students, you have the analogy about a chess match, which may be to difficult for inexperienced students. But the only way to get that experience is to active try. I dont mean that students should immediately try yo understand a very difficult chess match, but you cannot learn about chess just by book. It can be easier to use a knight if you can visualize its movement. But I think you actually come to that same conclusion at the end of your video.
Oh, and last of all, I really like tour video's!
Take notes really helps. Usually I watch CZcams videos for fun but sometimes when I realize it's kind of useful I then take notes after watching the video and watch the video again to confirm my understanding of the content.
all of your channels are great. you actually go beyond information. You inspire people and motivate them. your work is incredible and we audience are very thankful to see you grow your way to teach, because so are we growing.
thank you for so much effort to do things the right way.
What I find interesting is the fact that a lot of educational videos on CZcams are consumed as a way of procrastinating, while avoiding school related work. Whether the schoolwork will educate you more than the videos is of course debatable and probably varies a bit. Anyway great vid, I find this psychology / biology (don't really know how to label it) stuff quite intriguing ;)
David Straka o o I 9o o oooo on bbbbb sd fu u I j vccf h j v dddd dB jkklp k gc cc'd ddf UK ekj de jd jojoba xk b re un g r hyjby2hedeh h r bdhhdhdhhdhh Rd hzgh was hhsjsjsjsjhshshg r y r irkrbendbbhe un ansbwnwnwhwhj we nnwj. how much noise do you need until the signal produces a result.
Derek's honesty sometimes baffles me. I wish I could see more of that on CZcams. People that would actively engage with the audience and post a video about a video they made, reviewing the topic. But sadly Veritasium seems to be the lone star of Wisdom, not knowledge, on these grounds. I understand that he is Doctor for a reason, but what I don't understand is where all the education originality comes from.
Draxis32
would you go so far as to call him... an element of truth?
I also really enjoy watching Jordan Peterson.
he has amazing insight, but this isn't news to those of us in the education field. I was taught about "scaffolding" in college when studying to become a teacher. He's not the first to use it in this context, nor will he be the last, but he is genuine in his way of approaching it on CZcams.
Andrew Wahba, did you go to Acadia University by any chance?
Help: I'm searching for a Veritasium video I can no longer find. It's the video in which he is answering youtubers questions from the comments section. Thank you. (SPOILER: it's the one with a special guest at the end)
i have been following for quite a while, and I know how much you care and have studied on what is the best way to give a lecture, so you coming out with a 'definitive' answer makes me happy. but i caught the glimpse of smile at the end
veritasium is one of those channels where you can really understand and learn a lot at the same time😀
did you watch this video my dude?
navya tayi did you watch the other video?
navya tayi I'm pretty sure this video just explained that these videos can fail to teach stuff while giving the impression of being taught.
But that's just your confidence increasing, did you actually learn?
how do you know ?
I don't know if you missed jump-cutting at 9:35 or if you intentionally left that pause there, but either way, I really appreciated it. Jump-cuts are WAY over rated. Natural flowing monologues FTW
Sonni Totally agree. I was pleasantly surprised to hear a natural pause for thought
I don't think Derrick had a script for this video. He most likely had talking points and ideas he wanted to touch on based on the main video, but he probably didn't write every single word spoken here. I'd say that was probably a genuine epiphany/realization moment and he wanted to keep it in the video as it was a pretty significant conclusion!
I don't know about that. The way he kept looking off camera suggested to me that he might have been looking at a script of some kind.
if it were me i would have prompts and key quotes/sentences to refer to to keep me on track. maybe he has something similar.
I’m very grateful for your videos, Drew (and Gun!). I especially like that you talked in this video about science, art, music, and learning because I think there is something essential there.
I’m a science teacher in middle school and we use your videos often in grade 9 Physics. I failed physics when I was in high school because my ‘Drew” was really busy processing other things I think. I’m old now and love science (like I always did) as much as I love art. I studied art and design in university and I’m really an art teacher who was given science to teach. I also have a daughter I put through the Suzuki method of playing violin - from a really great fiddle teacher.
What I know about learning music from watching my daughter learn to play complicated pieces (ten years after she began lessons), and from learning, practicing, and teaching art, is that there is “process”. Process is what makes a “practice” of learning. Watching science videos, especially ones as good as yours, is part of the process of a good practice of learning.
When my daughter learns a new piece, she needs to familiarize herself with how it goes, so she listens to it as often as she can, sometimes even in her sleep! She isn’t “learning” the piece when she does this, but she is priming her Gun to help her Drew to go to the hard “work” phase of chunking - making it easier to tell when she has it wrong, so she can go back and do it slower until it is right - building her muscle memory to match. Once she has Gun fully on board, she can activate Drew again in a performance to play it with expression that is “in the moment”.
I think your two videos - the one about Gun and Drew and this one - underline how this works for students learning science too! Watching videos that challenge their thinking helps because it reviews the information they read in their texts (hopefully!), and worked through with their teacher (hopefully), and maybe even backed up with a fun experiment or virtual lab to get Drew working too. It’s all part of the process.
Watching videos helps the chunking by underlining themes and helping the brain develop the scheme needed to remember the “story” of the information*, and how to use the pieces or tools needed (like formulas) to figure out a novel question on an exam (I.e. the “performance” of the information in a way). It isn’t an accident I think, that athletes use visualization to increase their performance.
In the end, the right amount of “efficient” practice is what is needed to get the best result, but you need your Drew on board in the moment for the best performance.
Thanks again for helping out an old art science teacher help her students engage with the beauty of the difficult and wonderful ways our world works.
* By pointing out people can go wrong with their thinking in your videos, I think it helps even more because it helps the brain practice for what can go wrong in thinking about a concept. This primes students to be ready in an exam for tricky parts!
The fact that you try so hard to not fall into bias and misconceptions and that you think throughly even the "simplest" of the videos you make; that you engage your "Drew" even when most of us would just relax on the chair, makes me believe you are one of the most brilliant minds on CZcams! Congratulations on your hard work!!
This is definitely something i never really thought about and i'm glad you brought it up. I don't think there will be a concrete solution to that learning balance, but i have found that the more memorable learning moments were those "oh my god i finally get it" situations (in a way which you find out on your own). It would be great if there was a way to got those moments in the learning process.
Nobody makes understandable yet informative videos as good as cgp grey
I don't know. I'd say it's actually quite easy to let Drew sleep through Grey's videos. They have all the relevant information, yes. But I think his videos are very well optimised for the "Clear and fun with the potential risk that they may learn less" side of things.
Not that I have anything against him. I love his podcasts especially. Just trying to play the devil's advocate here.
The5thStateOfMatter you are very right. What I like about Grey's videos is that they teach you a new way of thinking about a subject like in the rules for rulers video or th thought germs video and yet it's very easy to understand.
Kurzgesagt is great too, the animations make it all the more interesting.
Na bro, CGP Grey may be quite good but Bozeman Science is far superior.
Grey can speak very quickly and it's sometimes confusing. For me at least.
This is brilliant and questions learning in its very profound forms. As always you could give an explanation to many questions that were floating in my head without a definite shape. You make me improve as a scientist and, generally, as a thinker. Thank you, from the bottom of my heart.
Hey! First of all, thank you for all of your work! I'm enjoying every single videos of your channel.I just want to light up something I've read, it says that you really know (or learn) something when you're able to explain it to anyone. And even if I watched a lot science videos, I'm always getting troubles while I'm trying to explain them. So I know that my feeling of knowledge is just an illusion, but makes me want to know more. And whatever you doing this videos for, you make me want to learn and thanks for that
In School (8th Grade), Some of my Teachers give me the option to work on tasks that I choose or create by myself, because the normal lessons kind of bore me. I think that's really cool!
I wish I could have that, (IB 1 here (kinda 11th grade but x10 harder))
Your so lucky, I wish I was you
Can you imagine being this early but _not_ having watched that first video?
towerofnix even if i didnt watch it, i still know how it works, i think ASAP SCIENCE had a skit for it too
i havent...
Me too, which video is the first video?
But you don't know who is gun and who drew? :D
I thought circuits were taught in freshman year in physics 2: electricity and magnetism.
I gotta say that getting people interested makes great education too. If people want to learn they'll learn better and you definitely did that. Your whole approach in videos like, 'Hey a tree, how does the water get up there?' didn't only make me remember how. It also learned being curious and that you can discover those things with science.
As a 3rd year teacher who has gone through a credential program hell bent on constructivist strategies and working in a school that is very intent on having the students "Do the science" this was very refreshing for me to hear. Thank you for articulating what I've felt about some of the misguided tendencies that get wrapped up in this type of strategy.
I also showed your thinking video to my students to illustrate that if they are learning something it's not going to be comfortable and if anything it should be difficult. I hope they start to recognize those moments of struggle and identify them as a growth opportunity rather than giving up. I've already alluded back to your video when a student was going to give up at one point recently. Keep up the great work!
wow...this is a really great video
navya tayi You've got 40 likes for just stating how great the video is
it's almost as if people agree that the video was great
crazy, right?
Hi Jack ...i'm actually quite surprised..😀
Insertnamesz / Lije ...yes
Another Tex 😊
What I find watching entertaining educational videos, is that they introduce and internalize complex concepts, which will make it easier to understand the bigger picture when trying to understand or learn about a certain theory. For instance, because of all the videos of minutephysics I watched, it was relatively easy for me to understand the special-relativity course in high-school. My point being that educational videos can be a great way to prime your mind for some actual in depth learning, without necessarliy learning applicable knowlegde.
I really appreciate that you put so much thought into optimizing teaching.
I think a great way to optimize educational videos and even courses would be to remove the friction caused by assumed background knowledge: terms, concepts etc. So, to explain a new concept in as much self-contained and simple way as possible.
I love the genuine and personal atmosphere of this video
So basically teaching is an art. And I say Derek is a great artist! :)
thank you! An art and a science. It's science in that I think there are some principles that work repeatably, but also an art in that there may be many different ways to accomplish the same thing and a great teacher knows how and when to use different techniques.
But Derek, *anyone* can be a teacher. Pedagogy and learning theory are fake (and sick) degrees.
Sarcasm disclaimer for dense people.
2veritasium science is an art too, any activity that reliance in something more than a mechanical process
Yeah, I get your sarcasm but I really think "anyone" can be a teacher. In the same way as anyone can be a painter or a scientist. If you are determined, work hard and practice the skills you need you can do almost anything. It takes years of hard work though. Most people are not willing to do that. It's easier to say "I'm not talented at math/drawing/teaching..."
roman Mastery depends on self-motivation, rather than on the individual's innate abilities
I really like the Concern you have for education and how to make people learn. so thoughtful. :)
He is actually contributing to the richness of our society opposed to how people run behind money, adding little value to our society. I wish Derek was born in India, he could change a lot of things in the educational system but we have own Derek Muller, none other than Mr Sonam Wangchuk.
I love Derek. His thought process, courage, enthusiasm and scientific temper and everything is so perfect, excellent. He is the sole reason I LOVE physics and science today. One of the best teachers Derek is. The single photon interference, the original double slit experiment, and learned helplessness videos are my favourite. I just love his thought process. I TRULY THANK YOU FROM THE HEART MR.DEREK.
Bravo, much respect for these recent videos
Awesome video! But do you think it is effective to unite humor and science, for example? By doing this, maybe it could be possible to make Drew work harder while still making it enjoyable. So it would serve as an incentive, rather than a type of help. Humor is just an example, but perhaps the idea of teaching something boring/difficult could become more enjoyable if something that the student likes was included in the class. For instance, my cousin hates science, but he loves skateboarding. So by combining both things I was able to teach him a lot of Newton's laws of motion. However, it is of course very difficult to make this in mass education because it requires a lot of attention from the teacher.
I hope Michael Stevens watched this video
RAJ DALVI in all honesty, I don’t think he’s really a bad culprit.
For one, while his videos are entertaining, I find he does that on purpose. He’s not so focused on teaching, or informing, as he is focused on poking our curiosity, and guiding us in a direction to learn more.
So if anything, I think he’s encouraging people to learn. Sure, he might not be exactly educational, but then again, I wouldn’t argue that Derek here is (always) exactly educational either (and he admits that).
Which is no means a diss to Derek. His channel is outstanding. I think his point is well taken, though: I think its very difficult (and quite boring) to be perfectly educational. Without some sort of device to bring people to learn, I don't know if we'd ever learn calculus, physics, or economics. So, all in all, I think channels like Vsauce, Veritasium, 3brown1grey, etc, are excellent educational channels, especially considering the vast amounts of shit out there.
This is why you are the best Derek - this is so true. I see the idea that people love bite sized educational summaries or little video clips or short how-to "listicle" articles because they can't be bothered learning the meat of the information, and they can easily feel inspired by these short things. I believe this is so because people like instant gratification, instant results, and "instant knowledge" without wanting to invest enough time into it. Which is why many people fall for buying online courses. The successful people out there all learn it the hard way, and then they write up a "formula for success" which they then sell to other people who are hungry for instant growth and results. But the best way to learn is to actually write up your own formula for success, by learning it the hard way - i.e. whether this be really digging into the research article, or actually finishing the book instead of reading the summary, or starting your own business and learn first-hand, rather than buying an ebook that supposedly teaches you how to start your own businesss
You've definitely hit the nail on the head. No single method is best. it's the proper application of a mixture of methods geared to the individual student that makes it work.
5:26to 5:33 proof that Derek can dance. Tbt
😂
Teehee! I saw him bounce a few times too!
Teach critical thinking skills first.
THESocialJusticeWarrior Yes, indeed! Even young minds are open to investigative enquiry through questions that do not have obvious answers. In English lessons, act as a writer; in History lessons as an investigator; in Expressive Arts lessons be active and mobile, and so on. The Philosophy for Children (P4C) scheme is one approach I would recommend as the foundation for such an approach 😃😃😃😃🏛🇬🇧
I really like that you not only question the work you are doing, but - more importantly - also sharing your findings and thoughts about that! This is a great step towards improving educational videos.
I also find it interesting to imagine that - assuming you don't share your doubts - most other video makers could have these doubts too - but didn't dare to share them, which ultimately leads to a situation similar to the impostor syndrome, right?
This is a VERY important video. Derek is really getting to fundamental truths that should be essential knowledge for educators, particularly science educators. Brilliant Derek, brilliant.
I'm curious what your thoughts are on university science/math teaching? I'm doing my undergraduate and one thing I've noticed is that, for classes like math a lot of the testing comes down to speed and memorization. Obviously the theory and proofs is taught extensively, but the proofs haven't really been tested for my classes so far (calculus - derivatives and integrals). From what I've heard proofs is done mostly in more advanced classes and for math majors. So at the end of the day this made me (and other people who are juggling a heavy course load) skip the non-essential proofs and just memorize certain things (like special rules) as well as focusing on just doing a lot of problems by applying the learned methods. This made me forget more easily how the proofs actually worked. Besides this, the tests they give us are quite difficult to do in the allotted time. If you want to actually finish it in time, you need to be super familiar with the types of questions, to the point where you're almost doing it like a machine. It's all about being able to execute the methods perfectly, without necessarily understanding why you were allowed to use the methods in the first place. There are fewer (if any) questions that require careful deliberation and reflection. It's all about regurgitation at record speed. Personally the speed thing has always pissed me off because it doesn't feel like a reflection of a person's capabilities. There is a case to be made that thinking slowly, deliberately, and "from the ground up" is a much more valuable skill than being able to repeat a task ad nauseam. And it feels like universities have been leaning more heavily on "fast and dumb" these days.
whutman you are so right. In my major we follow 12 classes in 1 semester, which is so many that you can't keep up, unless you just "trick" your way to good grades. It is not about understanding, it id about being able to speed-make the tests.
As far as learning like that goes, I think that you are building a foundation. Once you know all of those things and can do them quickly, you can go back and learn the proofs and the reasons behind them.
This explains so well why my friends and me had huge problems understand linear algebra in college, I actually didn't even take the exam, lol.
Timo J I'm currently in the same boat. Total lack of prior knowledge is killing it for me. The notation doesn't help, either.
Thats why i'll rather study physics and trade LA for higher maths. Not that i didn't have that in my current field of study
When I took linear algebra I got fucked. Massive language barrier, too much online homework, unexplained notation. I barely passed.
Lack of homework is a bigger problem. Pretty much the only graded work is a small bi-weekly homework, one midterm, and a final. I got a 55% on the midterm, so it's not looking good.
Wonderful video! Just last week I started thinking about Drew and Gun and how to "apply them" to my daily studying routine (I'm a musician btw) but now this video gave me a lot of information of how I can make my students engage more without feeling too much pressure on learning something new. The crazy thing is that this kind of balance you talk about is how I actually learned to play de violin and I hadn't even realized it. Thanks a lot Derek! Keep up the good work!
I honestly wish their were even more videos on this channel. You're the first channel (well both your channels) in a long time that I actually binge-watch
damn this video actually would help a lot of teachers
Im a music teacher. My class starts in 3 minutes. And now I need to throw out my lesson plan and make a new one. Gol-ly
Your videos are kinda both - while you do explain most topics in a simple-to-consume way, you usualy end up with questions that I have to engage my brain to answer for myself :) And by this I think you deliver on your goals. Thanks!
You argument on music learning is spot on! I'm a self taught guitarist and it really helped to first play music I knew before getting into theory.
I think it is a very big problem in music schools here in France, where you first learn how to read music, sometimes without even touching an instrument for months, before actually learning how to play songs.
What about people playing puzzle games and strategic games like chess that require a lot of thinking and only thinking.. They do it for fun, not because it makes them uncomfortable.
it's weird, when I was 10 I started playing sudoku and 5 years later I could solve even the hardest ones, I love solving logic problems and I like to read technical books but chess is too overwhelming to me there are too many things to think of at once, I even tried checkers but I just cant see the oponent's strategy and I lose every time.
Frøken Glattbarbert Stillas-sikkerhetsinspektør
Strategy games and chess build on entirely different mental skills.
I'd bet this can be explained by how the gamification of puzzles allows for a more readily available sense of accomplish after doing a strenuous task. The size and payoff of puzzles is just so that we don't mind the strain for the satisfaction of overcoming it that it brings with it. Learning is different in complexity and scale, and I feel like the same mechanics don't work so well taking into account the higher magnitude of these differences. Though there definitely are people out there that treat learning like a game, typically with better results than others not approaching it that way, but I'm not sure if the difference is in their approach or just their own character.
Who the fuck disliked this video...?
nish Me
y?
Jus trying to find some shameless people on the internet , why would someone dislike an educational video. Maybe veritasum should do a video on that too
Drew
Pugh, Pugh, Barney McGrew, Cuthbert, Dibble, Grub.
Hi Derek! thanks for this outspoken content! I personally find a good balance in your videos, where those make me think hard and at the same time entertain me enough to encourage me to watch more. The type of video editing that makes me think most and at the same time keeps me highly engaged is where you pose a question to people on the streats and in the process of listening to their answers i try to answer the question myself and start to seek for information from their answer to understand if and to which extent my guess is right. This is the type of editation video where i feel i get away with more informations and with the learned topic that is way more sticky in my head. I hope this makes sense. The question is: why is this? why is the process of answering, that involves an action, much more effective to learn and remeber something? in a way like it is effective taking notes on paper while studying... how does our brain work to remember a new piece of information and why some "tricks" good for someone arnt's as good as for someone else? :-)
I am not a professional researcher or teacher or such, though over the past few years I have become very interested in the labels society uses, such as stereotypes, and why they seem to be so difficult to get past, individually and as a group. Though I may have not been thinking too deeply during the video about Gunn and Drew, I did find that after the fact it has led me into a lot of deep thinking. So another piece of the puzzle you may want to consider is how much future thinking is created by the same video? The problem today is that some much more information is generated per second than ever before, so it occasionally helps to have people like you share knowledge that we would otherwise not be exposed to. Thank you for all your videos and all you do.
I don't trust these edited comments.
Faique khairi no one does
yes you're right
Gloss = Vsauce
MrGintama96 Yeah i thought the same.
But But I paid 24€ for those 8 episodes of MindField, damn yt red, are you telling me that I didn't learn anything from it? :-(
Timo J You learned a valuable lesson on how you should not spend money on money hungry people.
Timo J TBH I thought that mind field was some of the lower-value stuff that has been put up on the vsuace channel. It seemed too much like reality television to have anything substantial. The isolation episode was the best one.
If you're looking at VSauce for education you're looking at the wrong channel though. There's a reason Veritasium is labelled educational while VSauce is labelled entertainment. It's not a difference in quality but a difference in kind.
As a musician (albeit one with a background in science), I'm continually thinking about how to present music--specifically Western Classical music--to people, and I've been recently watching your videos and thinking about how the principals of science education that you talk about can be applied to my field. So I thought it was great and hilarious when you started talking about learning music! I wish I could sit down with you and talk about it with you. I was literally just talking to people earlier today about the kind of things in this video. Thanks for your videos and reflections!
What's the name/artist/song title of that harp music at the end? It's lovely.
whats the ten dimensions video?
It's a series of videos called "How to imagine the tenth dimension" or something, where a guy just makes some stuff up that has nothing to do with science. But the stuff he makes up sound very cool and new, so people who don't know any better feel like they have learned something.
ahh. Thank you. Ill check it out i guess, if i find it.
This video is great!! I am a graduate student in mathematics, so I've been thinking a lot about how I learn things in the classes I take and how my students learn in the classes I teach. Of the classes that I take, I have one which is mostly "here's a task, figure it out" where I feel Drew is overwhelmed, another class which is almost purely lecture where I feel Gunn just nodding along, and a third that is a mix of the two: lecture-based but student remarks and decisions motivate the direction of the lecture. The last class is my favorite one lately and the one in which I feel I'm learning the most.
For the class I teach, alternating days between lecture and recitation where the students work on problems gives students an opportunity to exercise both Gunn and Drew. Gunn is along for the ride on lecture days, while Drew is being exercised on recitation days. The students work on a particular activity related to lecture, so it gets their hands dirty with the material. Thank you again Derek for another video that makes you think about thinking!
I, as a teacher at an university of applied science, can totally agree with the conclusion you have made: it's all about sweet spotting the exercises between comfort and complexity. As addition I see that an exciting introduction into the topic helps the students to build enough interest to actually leave their comfort zone.
How would you use this theory for reeducation? If "Gun" is so use to doing something one way and it turns out to be wrong or no longer a proper way of doing something, "Drew" needs to step in and relearn how to do it. The older generation and military reintegration are two examples that come to mind that this theory does not match. Thoughts?
I fully appreciate the statement you made about the viewers cognition. But being a persistent viewer, i should say one thing. I don't mostly learn a skill from these kind of videos. But what i learned throughout these years is, *the way of constructing deep thoughts*. Yearly days, I always awe strucked to 'understand' how the way you 'understand' more about things than me, simply some sort of philosophical ego carry on between you and me. But nowadays, I barely think about that, But what I do myself now is , developing some thought arguments between you and my line of thoughts throughout the video play. I hope this bAFFLES you !!!( Sorry for my novice english)
Wow, you are really proud of that comment of yours aren't you?
This is exactly the reason why I always find entertaining or funny teachers far more likely to cause me to actually pick up on things being taught. I may not be totally engaged in the learning topic, but I am engaged with the teacher which helps me to store the information subconsciously. It's also the reason I rarely take notes in class as it blocks my engagement with the teacher.
you are totally true, I mean, you are completely true.
for me, I love learning by watching videos for lectures or general science videos illustrated by some you-tubers (physics and so on), and when I started learning using MOOCs and go through tests or final course exam, I really felt how hard it is for me to deduce a correct answer for the questions. I was terrified by what I thought of my self at that time. I realized (after watching your videos time by time) that the learning process is not that simple thing of setting back and watching a video. the learner has to be active while receiving information. otherwise, he will not get what he wanted from watching the video.
Please keep showing up, I like your work.
I love you #fullhomo
Sky Walker Sorry bro, he's has a girlfriend / wife and child
Sky Walker #FullDisgusting
+MyHerpes Itch Is that argument a form of vaccination? Because I've just got more stupid for reading that. You remorseful innocuous glib...
I unsubscribed from "big think" long time ago. ;)
I find that about half of their videos have good info or they're good enough to start a discussion. But the other half are complete and utter garbage. It wasn't always like that but it's been happening over the last couple of years.
Like 90% of their articles are trash though.
Interview with Stephen Fry was awesome. that's why subscribed in the first place.
Love your honesty and how you so insightfully discuss about education.
I like that you realize, actually that you're making a conscious decision to not go as deep into the explanations as you could in the videos. I have personally noticed that myself in some videos more than others, but I think a balance is the best approach. Some videos are tough to understand, others don't teach much but are more fun. Keep it up Derek!
*portugease teacher enters the classroom*
"We will now be studying arcadism, i want an 5 page essay and the exercises from page 10 to 30 for tomorrow."
"What's the problem? Work, go go go!"
And that actually happened, no word for word, but that nonetheless.
you could have named him/her literature teacher instead of Portuguese teacher... English speakers might have a hard time connecting the dots reading these...
unless you are not a native and your Portuguese-as-a-second-language teacher asked you a 5 page essay about Arcadism... if that is the case then, woah.. just... woah...
I have just gone back into study at undergraduate level after 5 years of full time work in a blue collar industry. This video is so significant for me right now because my brain is just mush after two weeks of physics, maths and chemistry. But I am already feeling like my subconscious is getting better at taking over and automating a response to steadily more familiar problems and even a response to new information. i.e how to process it so my conscious brain has an easier time of things. Thank you so much for the great videos!!!!
I learn a lot from your videos. Butbut you said, my confidence is probably misplaced higher than it should be, but at the same time it is that confidence that I have about learning that keeps me coming back to learn more from either the same video or a new one.
great job on the explanations for all of your videos.
Thanks for the motivational study break. The confidence from watching this reassuring video should help with my thermodynamic midterm in 10 hours. The calc is like musical notes I have never seen before.
Your final thoughts are one of the big reasons I watch most educational videos. It isn't so much to learn outright in that one sitting as it is to slowly build up my knowledge base at it's peripheries. I find them good for getting acquainted with the subject matter, good for reinforcement, good for sparking interest, basically good for many general things. Maybe you could call it indirect learning, because my knowledge _is_ being built up, but in quite a less explicit way than, say, taking a course at a university.
And like you say, one isn't necessarily better or worse, but this laid back supplemental learning definitely has advantages in that it's, well, more laid back and quite a bit less mentally taxing than a faster, more rigorous approach. I definitely can relate to the faux sense of understanding though, and I feel like that was me a couple years ago. But now I've reframed it and come to terms with how it isn't really comparable to other ways of learning, yet still useful in it's own right.
This had bigger effect on me than the main video. I could totally relate to what you were saying and it seems like my every experience of learning comes together and becomes orderly.
YES!!! Absolutely spot on. I
I am a maths teacher in NSW Australia and we are currently experiencing a greater push to churn out results (from statewide numeracy and literacy exams), without considering whether actual learning is taking place. I believe this is the root of the outcry that, on the one hand, we shouldn't teach to the test because actual learning is forfeited, but on the other, we have to teach to the test because so much rides on success in these statewide exams.
I think that the solution to this problem is for teachers to be more focused on creating assessments of their own that actually do assess whether learning is taking place. In maths, we call this formative assessment and in teaching to this sort of test, we can genuinely assess learning. In ensuring that the skills to do well in this sort of test are learnt, we are ensuring that students develop a schema upon which they can lay further foundation, eventually leading to "doing" science or "doing" maths or whatever of their own. Beautiful ending line. THIS is what great education is about. 👌👌
I'm not a teacher or anything, but you perfectly verbalized what I think I've noticed and struggle with whenever I try to teach/tutor my peers in classes. Sometimes I get so excited about the material that I lose them, or other times I'll get use an analogy that is a little too complicated for their drew to immediately understand quickly. But other times I'm afraid I help them too much so that their drew isn't engaged enough. You're completely right that it is an art as much as it is a science.
Great vid, I've wondered a lot about "what's the best way to learn something", and this adds great perspective. Thank you.
beautiful, unedited thinking.......love it. You are a great teacher, its a pleasure to be one of your students
I'm an English teacher in Japan, and this video syncs well with a lot of the research out of EFL and foreign language education theory. Great discussion!
Please don't change! I love your teaching technic......your one of the few I can stand and actually get
Very raw, clearly not scripted, but excellent. Nice job Drew.
For what it's worth, I'm proud of you for your honesty regarding your education vs. views dilemma. Your closing made me excited about teaching! "It's an optimization problem". Yep, that's the challenge. We gotta find that sweet spot in the Zone of Proximal Development. Haha. I majored in Mathematics and minored in Physics. I'm currently wrapping up my first year of teaching (Physics, AP Physics 1, and AP Physics C: E&M). I've had experiences that lead me to agree with you that just diving into the scientific method can yield a small return for novice science students. If I don't provide my students with enough scaffolding (pre-made tables and graphs, listed procedures, etc), they struggle to design an experiment themselves. And, even with decent scaffolding, students can struggle to understand the relationship between the variables and thus the corresponding equations. Though, do remember this is my first year (with three different preps: of which two are fast-paced AP's). Unfortunately, I am probably responsible for a noticeable portion of the students' lack of understanding. I've used simulations in place of labs in order to communicate key concepts since simulations are usually simplified versions of the system that are under investigation. But, a key problem here is that students a deprived of the experience of managing error in their measurements. I suppose it's a balance. "It's an optimization problem". Ha. As a person who enjoys mathematics and is fairly decent at using/understanding it, I found my Physics lab projects to be more laborious than educational. But, it may have been more beneficial than realize. IDK. IDK. Speaking of knowledge, I find myself studying epistemology in my leisure time. It's an intriguing, complex beast of a subject. I'm gonna need a concept map. Haha. Anyway, keep up the thinking, research, and sharing. If you're ever looking for a member for a research team to further understand/address this optimization problem, I'd love to have an equation named after me.
I think the videos that we learn the least from boot our confidence the most, because these are the videos that mostly confirm what we ALREADY know (i.e. not new stuff). And videos that actually carry information new to us, e.g. teach us about A, B and D, bring us to the point where we lack the followup videos low on new stuff, mostly confirming A, B and D, to boost our confidence.
_Repetitio est mater studiorum_
I love this video. I love how deeply you understand and think about education and learning.
Totally agree with these points and I appreciate your honesty.
Dear Veritasium
I'm stunned about the honesty and pure dedication towards your topics and goals. you have such a soft, yet encouraging way of following your path and digging deeper without being afraid of what the results may be. sometimes it means to prove oneself wrong even...
I do agree with the message. It's not only about learning, to me it is about love too.
The people we hold dear and love, we should not shelter them or make them dependend on us. it is all about empathy and understanding, how we can give them a hand so they can stand up and run again, even if it means they can run away from us. the most happy moments are definately those, when we achieve sth by the means of ourselves, be solving a problem and having a great insight. Going the extra mile is astonishingly important because only that way we can sympathize with someone else who has walked a similiar way. When I work in the kitchen in the restaurant and the chief cook is cleaning the floor I can see his mindset. After i took a simple task like cleaning serious and not simply as a burden i engaged in it and that way I can tell simply by watching how he does it, what his "work ethic" is.
Well I'm drifting. What i intended to say is regarding the education. I mainly did educate children and grown up people in music. I wonder where the limit is, to how many people (at once) one can be a great teacher. to engage with the students, to find their preferences, to keep looking which methods and arguments encourage them the most is very demanding regarding the time. (but always absolutely worth the reward, when you see them grow on their own and walk their way). still, there is only a limited amount of people one can educate,- (in a private manner of doing of course the life was worth it, if you did help even a single person!) yet in a sense of making a living out of it, there is some serious struggle (I will admit i didn't choose the kitchen for reasons of enlightenment...)
You nailed it so exquisitely!
I think every educator should watch this video!
Very nice video!
During watching an educational video, we keep getting answers to questions we haven't even thought about. I guess this leaves many blind spots or holes in that topic we are learning.
About 6:00, you mention "It may look like a straightforward task to the teacher[...], it doesn't look like a straightforward task to the student." A couple of years ago I was a TA at a course, requiring the students to prove some things. The students had 24 hours (spread over multiple weeks) scheduled to complete three tasks, and many needed some hints to get there, while I could finish almost every task within 15 minutes. That's the difference experience makes.
This feeds back nicely to the point you make around 10:00: I was there to relieve the strain on Drew. The hints I gave were to be a sort of external Gunn, so that their Drew could focus on the important parts, the parts that we actually wanted them to learn.
This video and the other one truly helped me formulate and organize the way I think of education and learning. I feel slightly more at ease now, Thanks!
Absolutely agree, confirm why someone like me, now an old man, somewhat excels at basic scientific knowledge and understanding of certain scientifically born concepts. I've watched so many scientific documentaries, explanations, and the like for such a long period of time I've "scaffolded" my learning and taught myself concepts I literally failed in at high school.
I love when you present questions too because of this scaffolding I rarely take the obvious answer and try to think outside the box and rely on more rudimentary forces to understand the question before answering or, like many hate to do, simply say I don't know.
absolutely fantastic video, so many things ale addressed here, I could think about it for hours
The moment you mentioned that you play the trumpet I clicked like! Never knew I was subscribed to a fellow trumpeter so many years!!!
What I've always gotten from Veritasium and shows like Vsause and Nerdwriter is that your videos make connections for me that I would have thought about otherwise and I use these creatively to consider ideas on film and literature which I am passionate about. I use your ideas to consider my own ideas on philosophy and literature theory and in my own writing. In many ways, I consider it a collaboration of work.
I feel like this video is very relevant to me when it comes to watching CrashCourse by the Green Brothers. I have spent hours watching their videos, for example the history ones. I would watch more than 10 in a row, being really interested. But at the same time, I didn't really LEARN much. They give so much information and you have too little time to process it to get it in your deep memory. I remember some details, some general descriptions, but about 80% of what I've seen it gone and has been gone since a week after I watched it.
Meanwhile this video and the one related to this, more than 20 minutes is spent on one concept. And with that (and also the fact that I'm a physicist who's interested in education) the contents of this video are really stored in my brain.
That video seriously got me thinking. Seriously ! I’d say though that most of the things I want to deeply learn (= how it works rather than how it is) I cannot use videos. For most of the things I’ve learned via videos these are subject of conversation that aren’t really useful for my every day life. I tried to follow courses on coursera for instance, and frankly it doesn’t work as great as a book for me because I have to think too hard while on a book I can read it at my own pace, slowing down when I need, speeding up when it’s things I already know and don’t need to clutter my memory. Everyone’s experience is different, you don’t need to focus on something you already know because you can only concentrate really hard for quite some time, after that, you need a mental break. For this reason, I also think the school system as it is here can really benefit from having teachers that understand when students need pauses to assimilate what he just said. I remember sometimes courses being so dense that you write down on a sheet of paper for an hour straight and after it’s gone you just go to the next course. That’s not how it’s supposed to work, science is not just a collection of facts. The best teachers I’ve ever had would add anecdotes here and there, sometimes things that would be fun but then when you sat down on an exam associative memory would do the trick, you remember that not so funny joke and what he said alongside and it works.
I appreciated the honesty in this video
Derek,
I've been watching your videos for a couple years now and I really love the content. How we teach the next generation is a very important problem and needs to be discussed more. I had an interesting idea I wanted to share with you. Hopefully, it makes sense haha. I think one of the major barriers in the education system is the fact that large lectures aren't engaging, people get zoned out. Smaller tutorial groups are better, but still people aren't learning well. I am wondering if it has something to do with the social dynamic of the class. When people are nervous they don't want to engage out of fear of being wrong. We are social animals after all. What IF in our lectures and tutorials we plant a friendly person who is not a student to lighten the mood and start the conversation going.
Anyways just thought. Keep up the good work!
A fellow Vancouverite,
CK