What do Undertale and Deltarune Say About the Meaning of Life? [SPOILERS]
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- čas přidán 28. 05. 2024
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Undertale, Deltarune, and Existential Nihilism
The Philosophy of Toby Fox
Undertale and Deltarune are games that, on their surface, appear rather silly and nonchalant. However, if one digs deeper, one finds that Toby Fox, the creator of Undertale and Deltarune, has a lot to say about existentialist philosophy. It's not always obvious, but by analyzing certain characters in his games, we can discover just what Toby Fox thinks about the problem of nihilism, and the solutions heretofore proposed by philosophers. We'll also see, in the video, what Toby himself proposes as a solution to the problem of the meaninglessness of modern life.
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You can learn more about Doctors Without Borders at www.msf.org/.
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/ moonchannelyt
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Chapters:
00:00 - Intro, Video Games as Art
03:21 - Sponsored By RAID: Shadow Legends
04:52 - Intro End, Toby Fox and Nihilism
06:06 - Toby Fox, Intro to Undertale and W.D. Gaster
11:13 - What is Existential Nihilism Intro
12:03 - Nihilism's Roots in German Idealism [Kant]
14:18 - Hegel and the "Absolute"
15:49 - Gaster, Hegel, and the Discovery of the Absolute
18:24 - Intro to Sans the Skeleton
20:21 - Albert Camus, and Absudism
22:41 - Sans as the "Absurd Hero", the Limits of Absurdism
25:37 - Intro to Deltarune Ch. 1 and Jevil
28:44 - Sartre, and Personal Freedom
31:06 - Jevil and the Limits of Personal Freedom
34:02 - Intro to Deltarune Ch. 2 and Spamton
36:58 - Nietzsche, the Will to Power, and the Ubermensch
40:42 - Spamton and the Limits of the Will to Power
43:47 - The Concept of Home, the Meaning of Belonging
45:44 - Home and Belonging as Toby's Solution to Meaninglessness
49:49 - Conclusion
51:02 - Ms. Dawn's Butterscotch Cinnamon Pie, Special Thanks, and Credits
51:45 - Post-Credits Gag
52:13 - Take good care of yourself, okay? Be well out there.
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Track List:
Intro - The Legend (In Game Version), Deltarune
[it's a lower pitch than the OST for some reason]
" - Empty Town, Deltarune
Sponsor - Raid Soundtrack
Toby Fox - School (Beta Mix) SILVAGUNNER
" - Once Upon A Time, Undertale
Undertale - Fallen Down, Undertale
Gaster - Lantern, Deltarune
" - Gaster's Theme, Undertale
Existential Nihilism - Flowey's Theme, Undertale
" - Attack of the Killer Queen, Deltarune
German Idealism - Attack of the Killer Queen (Unused Version) SILVAGUNNER
[It's Mozart's Turkish March, Piano Sonata No. 11 in A major, K. 331 / 300i (3rd Movement)]
Hegel - Hotel Yado (OST Version) SILVAGUNNER [It's "III. Rondo. Allegro" from Beethoven's Piano Sonata No. 8]
Gaster Ctnd. - It's Raining Somewhere Else, Undertale
Sans - sans., Undertale
" - Snowy, Undertale
" - Megalovania but it's elevator music
[ • megalovania but it's e... ]
Intro to Deltarune - Lantern, Deltarune
Intro to Deltarune - ANOTHER HIM (In-Game Version), Deltarune
Jevil - The Circus, Deltarune
Sartre - Lantern, Deltarune
Jevil - The World Revolving Acoustic Guitar Cover
• Deltarune - The World ...
[Absolutely incredible cover, please go give this a listen]
Intro to Deltarune Ch. 2 - A Town Called Hometown, Deltarune
" - A Cyber's World, Deltarune
Spamton - Spamton, Deltarune
" - Deal Gone Wrong, Deltarune
" - Power of NEO, Undertale
Nietzsche - Dialtone, Deltarune
" - BIG SHOT, Deltarune
" - Dialtone, Deltarune
Home - A Town Called Hometown, Deltarune
" - You Can Always Come Home, Deltarune
" - Home, Undertale
Conclusion - The Turnabout Sisters' Ballad, Phoenix Wright Ace Attorney SILVAGUNNER
" - Until Next Time, Deltarune
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Attributions:
Gaster Footage
• Undertale Gaster Secrets
Temmie Footage
• Undertale Gameplay-Tem...
Sans Footage [Early]
• Undertale - Meeting Sa...
Sans Boss Footage
• Flawless Boss Battle -...
Sans Boss Footage 2
• If you come back AFTER...
Dinner with Sans Footage
• Undertale - Dinner wit...
Sans Judgments
• Undertale - All Sans J...
Jevil Boss Footage
• Deltarune - Jevil Boss...
Seam Footage
• Seam Dialogue Post-Jev...
Sartre Footage
• Sartre & Beauvoir on F...
Smooth Cutscenes [Please check these out!]
• Deltarune Smooth Cutsc...
• Deltarune Chapter 2 - ...
Spamton Footage
• Vs. Spamton | Deltarun...
Berdley Footage
• Vs. Berdly (Part 2) | ...
Spamton NEO Footage
• Deltarune [Chapter 2] ...
Hug Footage
• Video
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Additional Reading:
Ms. Dawn's Recipe for Toriel Authentic Butterscotch-Cinnamon Pie
imgur.com/a/puoEMkl
[Yes, that's all the homework I'm assigning for this video. Please enjoy the pie!] - Hry
![Mastering Foreshadowing || DELTARUNE and UNDERTALE [Theory/Analysis]](/img/n.gif)
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No....but get your bag, man
Nothing makes me think of *Existential Nihilism* more than Raid Shadows Legends. XP
Well might not install but you got the bag. And I am so proud of you.
Knowing that this is going to go toward donations makes me happy to see you get sponsorships like this, love that :)
Raid Shadow Legends! LET'S GOOOO!!!
"video games as art" transitioning into "Sponsored by RAID: SHADOW LEGENDS" is crazy
Lawyer got raid shadow sponsor. So you know he is doing the best.
@@IAARPOTIRaid pays big bucks, which means big charity donations, I'm all for tricking big corpos into accidentally doing non-tax refundable charity.
At least the revenue is going to charity
I kept thinking it was gonna be a fake-out. 😂
the intro was so interesting the whiplash into the raid add was raw i wont lie
"...philosophers, the single most difficult and unsociable group of people"
Philosophy major, can confirm
not true, they socialize with each other
@@melonusk6120writing essays critiquing other philosophers' ideas does not constitute as socializing.
You're a philosophy major...but are you a philosopher?
Finally, real representation
@@melonusk6120 I can assure you, most do not. Unless you count writing a book talking shit about someone who died like 60-2500 years ago as "socializing"
18:39 Actually, Alphys is arguably even more aware of the 4th wall than sans. If, during the Mettaton quiz, you pick "don't know" for the final question, she says she's done research on parallel universes and believes an entity (the player) is very likely watching them at that very moment. She confesses a hope to meet us someday, even if she can't directly observe us. If you look into the code for that part of the game, she also includes a note addressed to the hacker.
Sans, on the other hand, mostly describes himself as good at reading faces. Whenever you do something time-travel related he doesn't say "I remember" like many of the other monsters, (e.g. papyrus in a repeat run notes that you look familiar) instead he says, "that expression on your face" or "what's with that look?"
The only direct reference he makes to any higher awareness, is in the murder run, when he says "according to our reports" and describes some sort of way to view the timelines suddenly coming to an abrupt end. He never explains who's reports, or how precisely he is gathering this information. Given that in a pacifist run, he hints at secretly knowing Alphys, it seems likely that she proposed the theory to him, not that he was somehow gifted with a greater awareness than her. (Although there are definitely still hints that he knows Gaster, I'm just saying, don't sell Alphys short by claiming her obliviousness, haha).
:o wow. I don’t think I’ve heard that one before and I’ve watched way too many undertale videos. That’s really cool. It would make sense too. We don’t really see any other people sans could get reports from, And the possibility of it just being monsters we haven’t met is dissatisfying.
And Alphys's exact words were "There are alternate universes out there!", which is now really funny, even though it was just foreshadowing Deltarune.
san nutdealer not main super aware chrcter epic gaster blastr,,!!?!1! unbelievable, utrageuoous
Wow, hi Halfbread, I love your videos
@@JonnySpec The majority of the whole "Gaster" part of the story were essentially addins for Deltarune's existance. Even from the getgo in the kickstarter, the "another game" thing was referred to as "darker" by Toby. Made a lot more sense once he revealed Deltarune characters were actually some of his original plans.
A bit of irony today. I’ve been struggling for so long. I’ve tried em all. Embracing absurdity; giving in to hopelessness; trying to improve and ascend; questioning everything…. As I was trying to write a response to this video, the family dog fussed outside my door; wanting attention. I am ashamed to say, I yelled at it to go away. “I’m TRYING to think!” About 30 seconds later, I realized ‘What the hell is wrong with me?’ I went out into the house-loved on the dog, and gave my father a hug. ❤
Whatever all of this madness ultimately means, I'm absolutely certain that you made the right choice there.
Aww, meaning really does come from anywhere and everywhere. Personally, I can't quite do absurdism and religion is empty to me. I decided to live for the sake of experience. I want to experience Wonders! Of technology, of beauty, of nature, of humanity. It's the best I can do.
@@surface3122 I heard some wise advice from someone the other day. There’s nothing wrong with becoming the best version of yourself-if done for the right reasons. It’s all about intent. Doing what’s best for you at the expense of others is selfish. Becoming the best you…so you can look after the people you care about…is noble and admirable. I’m glad you’re on a mission to experience everything you can in the time you are allotted. ☺️. The more we can experience…the more we can empathize with people who might be different from us. That’s the kind of thing that leads to a better world. ❤️
@@mediabreakdown8963 I agree. What is "best" is what is best for the universe as a whole.
And everybody clapped
here's your updoot wholesome chungus!
Kantians being sink-pissers is a legendary take I will not forget.
"Categorical imperative"-proof
So... which school thought aims for the bathtub?
@@ShalakorArchimedeans
@@Shalakorso what does that make Diogenes? The guy that just goes wherever?
@@connormclernon2613:29 Yes
god, I obviously could never fault anyone for taking sponsors, more power to ya king, but it really is funny capping off this really heartfelt and thoughtful video with "and don't forget to try raid shadow legends"
Can't contemplate the deep meaning of a video game criticing a school of philosophy without making some money, man's gotta eat lol. Big bro capitalism said you can't make art without a little shilling. Honestly though I've never laughed so hard from a sponsorship, at the start talking about gaming as a new type of art form then shilling one of the biggest mind rot, time waste games ever it's irony on a whole nother level.
Lol yeah I thought it was a bit for the first few seconds 😂
Anyway they helped bring is a new Moony vid so they’re not that bad 😄
10% goes to charity 💀💀
Somehow at the end it kind of felt... justified or fitting? It was funny lol
@@aturchomicz821ctually all the sponsor money goes to charity, it’s 10% of the ad revenue
Or maybe not, can’t tell
Toby's response to this: "... Actually, I just wanted to make funny lil characters is all."
Moon: "That... Is deeply profound! It references famous idealistic beliefs of-"
"Funny? Do you mean using irony as a response to meaninglessness in order to try and push away from nihilism? That's such an interesting take on the ideas of Kierkegaard, who, as you all know--"
"Babe, wake up, new moony video just dropped."
"And it's got a Raid ad lol."
Thanks for waking me up
As a philosophy major I completely approve this video's quick summary of modern philosophy. Not dry, yet succinct.
I read the final part as "Not dry, yet succhini (with an s)" for a moment and i don't know what to make of this
@@JosuhSame
The Nietzsche part wouldn't fit better with Stirner instead?
Only Moon Channel could make an extremely in depth yet emotional video essay with new takes on a game that’s already been done to death, but then end it with a recipe for pie. Perfect.
2 years since last installment. And more to come. Not really dead
@@QSBraWQis not saying the game series is dead, but the saturation of essays about them makes it seem like there's no more to discover; a dead topic of conversation because video game theory analysts will rapidly consume and process it like pirhanas
As you were talking about the philosophical role of “home” in Toby’s games, it immediately called my mind to the final choice you’re given in Undertale’s True Pacifist ending, and how that choice could sort of reflect what “home” means to the player. The choice is a simple and binary one, but I do think it plays into that theme in a nice way.
augh. i don't cry easy but 48:41 got to me.
where i live doesn't feel like "home" and it hasn't for a long time, and listening to what you said made that realization hit like a truck. i love my friends. my home is with them.
14:49 It is extremely on point for a video on philosophy and Undertale to contain a supercut of philosophy memes, with punchlines that require a compounding understanding of the previous memes, some of which are presented in a framework that requires an external understanding of that framework to properly recontextualize the content within. Bravo 👌🏻
Yes
If the toilet is the presence of god, for Spinoza hiding god isn’t the point. The point is that the whole world is the toilet.
4/20 meme score
Finnaly, a 'Bravo' used correctly.
that "there's a light inside your soul" at the end hit me
Well, this got me to want to do something with my life, but this time with positive feelings, not in a panicking fervour that leads me to me self-destructing.
Thank you Moonie, it's very different when someone else puts things in perspective, rather than being alone in your own roiling thoughts.
Keep doing what you're doing. You're helping a lot of people.
Minor correction- "Gaster" says "YOUR WONDERFUL CREATION" and a second voice says "Will now be discarded." Note the capitalization difference. This is made more obvious in the Japanese version, the first voice is very unnatural, almost childishly so while the second voice is more proper and speaks more akin to Chara at the end of the bad route in Undertale.
Chara and Gaster would make a powerful team to drive home a philosophy
It could also be gaster sudently changing tone too, as that voice is used by susie
The second voice is used by Chara, but it also is the default police
I love the use of SiivaGunner's "Attack of the Killer Queen (Unused Version)" when talking about German Idealism. The combination of Deltarune and Mozart for this section is just perfect
I don't know why but including the recipe for the pie at the end was very endearing to me, and honestly made my day. Thanks for your hard work on these videos. 😊
With this video, I realized why I feel so lonely nowadays. My after-school jazz band was my home. But now that I'm out of uni all of the people, purpose, the spot on my chair where I played with others is gone. All I'm left with is my instrument.
Exactly, this video made my think about so many things about my life.
Toby Fox has stated, once, that "If I don't show you what I'm thinking, I'll lose my mind."
Deltarune and it's associated story have been on his mind since 2011, before Undertale even began production.
There are a lot of people out there who theorize about Undertale, Deltarune, and what it all will mean. It is interesting to see so many perspectives.
But I truly believe you may have revealed it without meaning to. A vision in the darkness. "The edge of the shadow, where dream and reality meet."
Thank you for all of your videos, and especially this one. I appreciate your perspective. It helps me more than I can accurately describe.
Time for our daily dose of Existential Nihilism, thanks Moon Channel!
Well, he also presents other ideas.
The dry delivery of jokes to the point where you don’t realize it’s a joke until you think about it is absolutely hilarious! i love these vids
This video just cements how I've struck gold in finding this channel. The conclusion felt so real and is probably the first thing on CZcams to nearly make me cry.
Holy shit Undertale. One of the franchises that helped me grow up in a dark time. I know this video is going to be simply sublime.
Edit: Best Video I've seen in months or even years.
back after watching, definitely cried at the end there. thank you moonie 💞🦈
This was a very fun look at Undertale through a Post-Postmodernist lens. I always appreciate anything that can find a way to both reassert personally defined essentialist value without dismissing to losing the lessons one can take from existentialism
Woaj! I have never played Undertale or Deltarune which is odd as I grew up on golden age JRPGs and am intensely intrigued by philosophy. I am a person who has chaffed against the consequences of living for as long as I could comprehend what they were. I often feel like a trespasser or tourist in the crevices and folds of life that I find myself wading through. It is bad manners, rude or offensive even, to be "bad" at life. To not care deeply about your performance at your job, to not respect the structures that prop our species up as fundemental truths, etc etc. I do often feel chained and jailed by the pointless struggle, the awkward crawl to the end of my own existence. I also often feel that "personal, alien freedom". Like I was given the chance to look behind the curtains that obscure the mechanisms of reality and catch a glimpse of understanding by pure chance. I feel sometimes as if that deeper understanding has made me incompatible with the truths most others live. It's silly to punctuate with that because I try my hardest to not come off as an "enlightened" individual. I don't feel that way. I know that I am--and wish only to be--a link in the chain of humanity, whatever that may be.
Actually; after the FF video, discovering that you were a lawyer was a bit of a shock to me. To my understanding, that is a profession so strung up with the expectations of a world that believes it's own fabricated truths are actually universal fundementals that--for me personally--the idea of pursuing it sounds spiritually torturous. Not because I think it is immoral (for whatever morality can actually measure to), but because it seems so... content? Like uhh... like a profession in which you would have to be very content with the truths we make as opposed to the reality we find. I am someome who has felt cursed with the preordained instrumentality of my life. Before I was ever born, I was expected to be useful. I don't want instrumentality. I don't want the purpose of my life to be either escaping the "cage" or accepting my place in it. I want to be free from the "cage" entirely so that I may discover my purpose without bounds. Clearly this is a personal bias, as I enjoy and find value in your insights in your videos! I wonder what ingredient my soul is missing, or maybe I am myself too rebellious. (I am, as a matter of fact...)
However I do keep crawling because there *are* things in life that bring me joy. And for all the reason I or anyone else can muster to the contrary--that joy is real. I want to kidnap that feeling and never post ransom. So I crawl! I will never understand that primordial spark, why it made me or anyone else. I will never understand the realms beyond existence if ever there are or were or will be any. But I do feel joy, and love. My experience is real. And I want to give life the berth it needs for others to actualize their experience. I suppose my only wish were that we could universally strive to let the very real experiences of others be something worth crawling for. I think that's why I chafe against an instrumental life. I don't think it serves that wish. But then again, who am I to think I know it all? I want to know what you know too! And know the rest of humanity as well!
I AM ENDING MY POST
Also aw frick I just finished the vibeo and I'm gonna cry again
The practice of law has always been, as you aptly put it, "spiritually torturous" for me. It is why I prefer to work in a field of law that supports, in my opinion, a more objective good, in that it alleviates human suffering.
I can relate very much to the feelings you've shared, grace. And I made Moon Channel, in part, as a way of expressing those feelings in productive (and hopefully educational and inspiring) ways. Yes, one could be a lawyer making high six figures, doing corporate law or IP law for some big company. But I prefer to be the catcher in the rye and all, if I can help it.
@@moon-channel Well don't let it ever be said you didn't find your audience. ❤️ For all of those who are here and all of those that may find Moon Channel in the future. :D
@graceggale I am one of you. I know what its like to percieve everything the way you do, at least as you've described. I'm successful by nearly any definition your average person in the US might apply to the word, but I can't help but feel like I'm always just playing a role and not really living for me. I guess I just wanted to share some empathy and say "I get it."
Congratulations!
ive never seen such a beautiful take on a game whose story has been trodded upon by analysis so often as to leave visible footprints in the game i can't unlearn. thank you.
I don't comment about myself often but your ending monolog brought me to tears. I've been struggling to become more independent to be my own nihilistic hero, but the cold nature of modern reality left me unable to succeed due to things I can't control so bad that I have to move back to my parents house. But you're right about home and meaning. It was really something I needed to hear to ground myself again. Thank you.
These types of videos are of therapeutic nature. Thank you for processing heavy loads of information, culture, references, and studies into one comprehensive video that aims to help the end user in order for them to better make sense of the content. Cheers my friend!
I love the fact that without even thinking about it, he just invented another theory on how tobey might theme secret bosses in the future. The idea that they might be themed after verious interpretations of nihilism and german philosophy is very interesting to think about
Moon you are amazing, the people designing educational programs could learn a lot from you! Wish I had this kind of explanation back when I was at college!
Thank you so much for all the effort and wholesomeness you infuse in each video❤ you rock
My god, your videos touch me straight to my heart. Here I am crying, as you explain the concept of home... Thank you for this. It means so much.
My understanding of Sans is that while he knows of saving and loading, meaning that nothing matters, he also knows that there is one exception: completing the dark route is permanent. That's why he is trying to steer you away from it. Even if he knows it is a futile effort.
My philosophy of Science teacher (same one I've mention before, Gerald Tertrault) used to say, "The genius Philosophy professor that no one can understand is not a genius." As I read and study philosophy I try to keep it simple, elegant. I really enjoy that and how insightful your videos are. I never finished Undertale (I had it on Gamepass and it left before I could beat it in 2019) so I felt a little haunted when you mentioned the files never finished. Also when I got the notification of this video I was watching a different Deltarune video - its got me interested in going back to this series.
What was the other video you were watching?
@@faresalsayed9005 I've talked about this professor in other comments on this channel
@@faresalsayed9005 oh sorry, I think I get what you were saying now, it was Designing For's video on Spamton
Hi Moony!! This video is definitely one I needed and will return to. The concept of 'home' and how it's where one's heart and soul can bare its truest form, a place of unconditional safety, belonging, and love, is and has always been my solution to the struggles of life. For a long time, especially now - in large part due to a horrible childhood - I would think every single day about for what, for why, for who am I here for? Will I make the 'right' choices or the 'wrong' ones? Which ones are which? That endless whirlpool of questions and answers and more questions is exhausting and, I think now, futile.
For me, finding purpose has been to help and support and love the people whose lives I come into contact with... That's my meaning. I want to build a home for myself, and be a home for others. Life and living in this universe is fundamentally about resistance. I resist the way my body eternally decays through daily upkeep, I resist the trials thrown at me by working through them. They are exhausting and take cups from my metaphorical water bucket. But that is why humans are, right? To be there to fill and be refilled in return? I want to be there to fill the buckets of those I meet. Life is hard enough.
Recently my partner and I have had major issues between us, and the home I had found in him I no longer have currently. We're trying to work things out, to approach our relationship like the art of kintsugi. Hoping that these cracks can be sealed by gold. But the whole process of grieving the loss of such a rare feeling of 'being home' has been crushing. This video gave me honest hope again though. That whether my partner commits to truly rebuilding this with me, or if someday I will be back on my own, that home is out there waiting for me again. Thank you, Moony, for everything you do. Please take care of yourself too.
Here's a few questions: Do we really crave a meaning to our lives, or are we just told that we're supposed to crave meaning by society? Aren't we better off being unburdened by something as abstract and untenable as "meaning"?
Being happy to have no meaning in life is *still* a meaning you know? It's something you decide to believe in, even if believing means not believing ironically.
Even simply living as a wild hunter in a jungle, going through the motions of every day and eating to stay alive, while never going beyond that, is still a meaning of life you choose if you go ahead with it (as a Sapient Creature).
It's impossible to truly believe in no meaning, since the very act of being self-aware and living your life means you must believe in *something,* regardless of how simple, vile, or impossible to articulate it is.
Even something as simple as "Protect kin from being hurt so reproduction is possible" is a belief that countless animals have, or the opposite of "Consume family member to stay alive to do other things" is still a meaning the animal gives to their actions and their current existence.
@@KittyKatty999 Okay, you are really, *really*, stretching the definition of the word "meaning" here. If you are just going to label "anything that happens to make me happy" as "the meaning of my life", then you may as well claim that everyone who thinks that they know the meanings of their lives must have an incomplete understanding about that, since they also do other things that make them happy.
Curiosity is how creatures evolve, and curiosity leads to asking the meaning of life. Ignorance is bliss but it is very hard to ignore the unknown so we fabricate or follow other's fabrications of meanings of life.
Personally, I went through a bad time with depression and existential dread and I found meaning in leisure and giving in into my instincts. I lived for reading, watching and playing every kind of entertainment. Nowadays I'm better and I understand that finding happiness in the little things is the key, with control over instincts vs obligations, id vs ego
@@KittyKatty999 This is not particularly philosophical at all, and I'm just saying it because I can, but one of my characters chases that exact really-boiled-down meaning. She lives as a hunter in a cursed forest. All she does is kill other creatures to survive. That's it. There is nothing more to her life. Kill or be killed, and survive just because you can. There's nothing else. And when she finally comes back into civilization, she can't understand it. In a certain sense, she's not really human anymore.
So, I guess in that little thought experiment, the conclusion I came to, based largely on my intuition, is that this character's life is simpler, and it's easier for her to be happy. (She is, in-world, satsfied with her life.) But her life is also brutal, and it's going to be short. Sooner or later, she'll come across something that can kill her. Heck, in her story, she DOES - one of the other characters has to bail her out.
She can live with no meaning beyond survival. But in doing so, she loses her humanity. And in her more specific circumstances, she also seals her own doom.
I wrote her that way largely because I like joking about how Lovecraftian horror doesn't scare her and it never will. She's never thought of humanity as anything special because she's never run across a creature that would think twice about killing her just because she's human (or for any other reason). I don't share that belief of hers, for the record. She's just an interesting character study.
Thanks for reading this all, if you did. If not, fair enough. You don't have to listen.
The idea of 'meaning' can be applied to virtually any motivation or end goal. If you take any action at all, such as posting a comment on a CZcams video, you have demonstrated that there is something, within or without, that compelled you to do so. In this example, it could be assumed, perhaps incorrectly, that you find meaning in your thoughts and opinions being heard, or that you find thoughtful discourse meaningful, were seeking it, and therefore incited it with this comment.
Edit: I noticed that my mentions here of 'finding meaning' could be replaced with 'finding enjoyment'. I don't know if they are the same.
I feel like Project Moon games, specifically Lobotomy Corp and Library of Ruina, have incredibly interesting takes on philosophy that I'd love too see someone cover someday.
Based Project Moon fan, (also getting an implied feeling that you dislike a certain gacha game in the series but it's completely understandable that it may drive people away)
Awww I loved this video, I think it's wonderfully written just like the others you have done before in the past and you've definitely become one of my favourites to just listen to and seeing the things that you talk about in and want to discuss.
I really enjoyed the video and I found the ending is really sweet as well for a meaning to life instead of just being hopeless or thinking about meaningless to just go to a place that you feel fulfilled with, to one you can love and enjoy yourself and I think that's a wonderful way to look at and see life and just enjoying it to the fullest no matter what happens. I think just enjoying and living your life to the fullest with those that you love and care about most is more than enough for life, just touching others hearts, just making others laugh and smile, I think that's more than enough and I don't think in any way that life is meaningless, I think there's a lot of meaning to it even if it's small or not really complicated that doesn't matter as long as you're happy in the end I think that's what matters most.
You make some of the best video essays I've ever seen, Undertale is my favourite game of all time and I just recently subscribed not really knowing what topic you would cover next.
This video is the best possible thing you could have released for me, I think I love this channel now.
one must imagine sans a comic
Slight addition/correction: the voice that tells you that "no one can choose who they are in this world" is most likely not Gaster. This can be inferred by their speech quirk changing, most notably in the Japanese translation.
Also: Chara uses they/them pronouns. As do all of Toby's protagonists.
^^^
Frisk, Kris... that's it?
What other games did Toby work on?
@@burner555 I just meant those two + Chara, who is also vaguely protagonist-y
Don't we have windings talking about the legend?
It sure does sound like G.
We can't quite tell yet i guess
Varik is male.
He's sort of not "Toby's protagonist"; he's partially from Brandish and Earthbound, haha.
"After all, who cares what the universe says or does if you have some place to BE?"
I feel this sums up a very effective method of combating existential angst. And feels like the Camus-like solution.
There's some quote about Camus being asked some philosophical question and in response decides to not worry about and instead decides to go play soccer (or some other sport) with his buds. He seemed quite aware of the participation in life having much more value than the act of determining its meaning. What a homie
Gosh Moonie, I really needed this video, your words about home really touched my soul and gave me such comfort. You are a wonderful human being, and your sisters must be too, to give you such inspiration. ❤
Your videos have swiftly ranked your channel among the top channels I've ever watched. Honestly, whether it's a fascinating legal situation; a dive into topics I poke with a stick; or a super engaging analysis that I can't take my eyes off of, I'm super excited with whatever you may do. I struggle to put into words how wowed I am with these. Very cool!
I could say "i wish i had this video back in college", but we didn't have Undertale when I was in college. So I guess I just have to dig up my old notes now and see what I can see, now that I'm older and have better perspective (like videos relating philosophers to video game characters)
When I was in architecture school, we had to take "design" classes that were really philosophy classes. You mentioned near the end their discussions of "home" and spaces, which is arguably (halfways) relevant to an architectural education. But either I wasn't ready for the discussion, or the discussion was intentionally obtuse, or both, because just hearing names like Kant and Hegel give me war flashbacks. Not that I remembered what any of them said. Just that I was frustrated and also bad with names.
This video both provides a helpful way to remember these philosophers, and piles of hilarious jokes that I can both enjoy and also use to help me remember what's being said. Your channel is a gem and your videos are wonderful. Thank you!
Wow, that are some layers to Undertale and Deltarune I never saw before. This makes sense a lot to me, echoes on my feelings of nihilism and abandonment. I was forced to nihilism since youth because of my parents' mistakes, and always struggled to find this belonging. That is my personal challenge to achieve, my dream to realize. To be finally able to go home.
i try to live as camus' absurdist hero most. the end of this video always hits hard because ive tried many times in life to find home. ive never felt at home with my family or my culture or in religion or my nation. at times i had a home amongst friends, but they fell apart due to capitalism or racism or transphobia or death or just time and distance. i do feel like sisyphus rolling the boulder up the hill in trying to find and cultivate a home over and over through my life. the absurd hero gives me some comfort - it diesnt matter that this cycle feels endless and futile and arduous, because nothing matters at all - despair and loneliness and misery are just more pieces of an authentic life to appreciate in defiance of the ultinate meaninglessness of existence itself. camus inspires me to refuse to give into despair, into anything - and this video helps remind me to continue to channel that towards a search for belonging and home that will ultimately disappear before my eyes once more over and over until the end
This idea of home, of needing to take a break from philosophy because it can be painful to question the metaphysics and epistemologies of reality, is one I think is perfectly exemplified in Hume's Treatise on Human Nature. At the very end of the first volume, David Hume has a moment of self-reflection, of fear and doubt, which is unusual for a philosophy text, usually philosophers try to hide such feelings to keep the appearance of control and mastery. He says that, in spite of the importance of his own work, he can't help but sigh, and enjoy an evening with friends instead of pursuing such matters further, that he doesn't need to torture himself more, that it wouldn't be healthy and that, the very fact that once he comes back after such breaks, he feels lighter and these considerations so dreary, is more revealing than any philosophizing could ever be. This, for me, a philosophy graduate student, is a reminder that to philosophize properly you need life experience, but while you are philosophizing, you aren't living. Reflection stops action, as the saying goes. the full quote is from 1.4.7, and for sake of being thorough (and avoiding you a longer read to find such a great passage) here it is fully. It's uncanny how relevant it is to a discussion on nihilism. Another great example I won't quote of this notion of separating common questions from philosophical ones is the response from Malcom to Moore, Moore being that guy who tried to argue about the obvious nature of common sense (''I KNOW i have two hands!'' for Malcom to respond, ''yeah, no one would question that if it wasn't a philosophical question, you're missing your own point buddy'') but ironically did so in a way that can't make sense outside philosophy, and thus could never truly be common sense.
''I am confounded with all these questions, and begin to fancy myself in the most deplorable condition imaginable,
inviron’d with the deepest darkness, and utterly depriv’d of the use of every
member and faculty. Most fortunately it happens, that since reason is incapable of dispelling these
clouds, nature herself suffices to that purpose, and cures me of this philosophical melancholy and delirium, either by relaxing this bent of mind, or by some
avocation, and lively impression of my senses, which obliterate all these
chimeras. I dine, I play a game of back-gammon, I converse, and am merry with
my friends; and when after three or four hour’s amusement, I wou’d return to
these speculations, they appear so cold, and strain’d, and ridiculous, that I
cannot find in my heart to enter into them any farther.
Here then I find myself absolutely and necessarily determin’d to live, and
talk, and act like other people in the common affairs of life. But notwithstanding that my natural propensity, and the course of my animal spirits and passions
reduce me to this indolent belief in the general maxims of the world, I still feel
such remains of my former disposition, that I am ready to throw all my books
and papers into the fire, and resolve never more to renounce the pleasures of
life for the sake of reasoning and philosophy. For these are my sentiments in
that splenetic humour, which governs me at present. I may, nay I must yield to
the current of nature, in submitting to my senses and understanding; and in
this blind submission I show most perfectly my sceptical disposition and principles. But does it follow, that I must strive against the current of nature, which
leads me to indolence and pleasure; that I must seclude myself, in some measure,
from the commerce and society of men, which is so agreeable; and that I must
torture my brain with subtilities and sophistries, at the very time that I cannot
satisfy myself concerning the reasonableness of so painful an application, nor
have any tolerable prospect of arriving by its means at truth and certainty?
Under what obligation do I lie of making such an abuse of time? And to what
end can it serve either for the service of mankind, or for my own private interest?
No: If I must be a fool, as all those who reason or believe any thing certainly
are, my follies shall at least be natural and agreeable. Where I strive against my
inclination, I shall have a good reason for my resistance; and will no more be
led a wandering into such dreary solitudes, and rough passages, as I have hitherto
met with."- David Hume, Treatise on Human Nature Volume 1, 1.4.7, conclusion of this book
This video is absolutely incredible and I almost cried at the end, thank you Moon Channel and thank you Toby Fox.
A really good introduction to existential nihilism for someone new like me, and how one of my favorite games attempt to convey it. And I really appreciate your view of the wholesome and down-to-earth answer at the end.
After watching a few videos you got a new subscriber, the calm and heartwarming narrative is not so common nowadays and the research and thought put into the videos is amazing too.
Just finished this video, and I'm actually starting tear up. What a beautiful video, thank you for making this.
God, that talk about the places we belong in the conclusion, after all that philosophy dump mixed with the already deep experience that toby gives in it's games made me bawl my eyes.
Thank you for this channel and keep being that wonderful content creator you are, you truly are a gem.
This channel is incredible. I cannot express how much this meant to me. I never would have even thought to link the ideas of undertale and deltarune with philosophy, but you've shown the close ties.
I appreciate the philosophy memes to keep me engaged while you went on about philosophy stuff, saving those for later. Existential nihilism is something I've been trying to deal with for a while - it is very draining. Thank you for giving digestible versions of the approaches that philosophers have taken, and linking it to video games makes it a lot clearer.
The conclusion was something I've needed to hear for a while, I think. I don't think I have felt the homely vibes of Toriel's home and the other 'safe spots' you find in video games, or the other comfort characters you find in media, in the real world. But you gave hope that maybe that feeling does exist in the real world, and maybe the feelings of emptiness and meaninglessness will subside, at least for a brief moment.
Sorry this is long and will get buried anyways. I don't comment often but I just wanted to throw this out there.
the concept of dark worlds being an exploration of the self and the idea of existentialism is a beautiful thing. i find myself laying on my floor searching books, papers, stories, and my own mind searching for a meaning to my meaninglessness. there is always a point you go to far, where it begins to break you to continue like spamton and jevil. it begins the cycle of isolation we’ve all grown to learn. these journeys through our own mind help us to learn life changing concepts that might be necessary to conquer the every day, but we need to know when to go home. thank you
You show Goner Kid many times through this video. Since Deltarune came out, Goner Kid retroactively became, in my head, the single most blunt example of a certain feeling that these games are trying to zero in on. Not just what they say, but how they say it even. Smiling and chuckling as they struggle inside. Or, maybe, an unironic acceptance of meaninglessness. A bit of both?
Another game I would point you towards that discusses a lot of philosophy is NieR: Automata. There have been plenty amazing video essays discussing topics of philosophers and their philosophies covered in the game and how the game corrupts and breaks down each of them. I highly encourage a play to discover them All. Much love ❤
playing nier:automata is one of the best experiences i ever had with a game ever. i don't think it's for everyone, but it's way more accessible than people think, although it doesn't seem like it.... by design.
i've dealt with philosophy since i was idk a kid or early teenager, so It wasn't the big sell for me. it was other stuff i don't want to mention bc i don't want to spoil. best thing is just to go in blind and "grind" through the tutorial (yes) and a bit through the start of the game. it's designed like this to keep people out and theres motive to it, but again, no spoil.
there is also a hot lady
Not even people who teach at universities fully understands the kantian change leading to Nihilism and how the countermovement of existentialism is related to it, esp. Nietzschu to Hegel. You're pretty well versed!! Definitely subscribed although I disagree on the negative sides of the Ubermensch, as Nietzsche is very self aware of the loneliness that may come, das Allein-Sein but very much shares the notion of being together, therefore not being Einsam.
I agree! That's what I'm saying! lol
I wonder how Toby Fox would react to this essay.
I'm an Undertale fan and I've never even played the game.
Also I love that you take video games as a legitimate form of art seriously. It's so obvious to me, but a lot of people still seem to struggle with this concept.
This is one of the most moving and inspiring videos I've ever watched, and you don't want to know how many motivational videos i've watched... The part about home hit hard. Thanks for making this, it changed my outlook on life a little bit.
Me listening of philosophy, waiting when to understand when we're talking philosophy
This video lowkey made me want to work on a similar topic next year for my master's degree in philosophy.
Your channel has rapidly become one of my favorites. I love how deep all your videos go and how you tackle difficult to explain subjects like nihilism. This inspection of Undertale and Deltarune has made me appreciate them even more than I already did. Great work, keep it up, and thank you!
I can't say I entirely agree with all that is said here but I do find it quite fascinating. I've never really drawn the connection between Sans, Jevil, Spamton, and the philosophies you bring up. I find some of the connections a little dubious but certainly not unfounded.
I would like to emphasize that these characters do not embody these philosophies as they truly are, but more so are extreme or corrupted versions of them. You can be an absurdist and not overthinkwhat you want for breakfast. You can be an existentialist without becoming hostile and lonely. You can strive to become an Ubermensch without becoming self absorbed.
I'd like to quote Uncle Iroh from Avatar the Last Airbender who said, "It is important to draw wisdom from many different places. If you take it from only one place, it becomes rigid and stale." Perhaps you could argue that following these philosophies to their extremes could lead to predicaments like the ones these characters are in, but they wouldn't be doing proper philosophy. Philosophy is not about finding some fun interesting idea and then sticking to it, it's about always being willing to question assumptions so to approach the truth.
I mostly take from Albert Camus, and though I'm not particularly a fan of Sartre, I do believe personal values are very important. Nietzsche is a philosopher that I have a lot of respect for in that he encouraged people to not follow him as disciples since following his teachings unquestioningly wouldn't allow people to think for themselves.
All in all, good video, lots of food for thought.
well, it's been decided, then? next video of the channel is a 10 hour long deep dive into explaining homestuck?
Deep into that darkness peering, long I stood there, wondering, fearing
Homestuck was my childhood formative experience and very first fandom. I grew up making fanmusic remixes of Toby Fox's early works and learned how to write via flailing around doing fanfic.
Possible topics for a Homestuck essay include, but are not limited to:
- Toby Fox's time living in Andrew Hussie's basement
- the feeling of shared authorship the work fostered, particularly in its early years
- how exactly fandoms get big and descend into madness (intermittent-reward release schedule, author encouragement, the zeitgeist)
- (also did you know that Toby Fox wrote an entire joke/s--tpost album about the main characters of Homestuck being pregnant with each other and was briefly banned from the official Homestuck forum for it? It is called _The Baby is You_ and is deliberately terrible)
- what kind of works sustain a fandom versus the ones that don't (see also the Yuletide fanfiction event)
- the phenomenon of the Auteur(tm)
- the way the work teaches you a visual language so that it can then reveal major mind-blowing plot revelations purely through animations
- preservation of works on the Internet (the death of Flash permanently broke a significant part of the original work)
I _would_ write this essay, particularly since based on what I just wrote I appear to be one of the more qualified individuals to do so, but it requires research and work I just don't have the energy to do anymore, what with my chronic illness.
I, personally, like to follow the advise of famous artist/philosopher, Hanna Montana, "Life's what you make it, so let's make it rock."
I mean, the core problem with nihilism, I feel, is the assumption that the lack of meaning in the wider universe is a bad thing, like its something that needs to fought against or else it will consume you. Like, my god, just go bake a pie! If you need to be spoonfed a meaning to life, why are you even engaging with philosophy to begin with? Philosophy's not about being happy, it's about getting into a knockdown drag-out fight with people over things nobody else cares about.
I, personally, find great comfort in the lack of meaning of life. Causality's still a bitch to deal with, but I can still at least bake a pie or contemplate deeper meanings of life or overanalyzes funny cartoons and video games because I like doing those things. I may not be able to choose what kind of garbage happens to me, but I can choose how I react.
I can choose how I react to the life I'm faced with, so I might as well make it 'rock', whatever that might mean for me. Also, make a pie. That butterscotch/cinnamon pie sounds really good.
my partner just showed me your bridget video yesterday, and thank god, because listening to your videos has been like speedrunning my day at work. ive now listened to a good chunk of your videos, and im so thankful theres someone so knowledgable and kind on youtube. and thankfully, im a welder, so no one could see me tearing up behind my helmet during the end of this video. thanks for what you do, and i look forward to more of your work
Darn it Moonie, now I'm going to be looking at every future secret boss in Deltarune trying to analyze what philosopher they're modeled after!
But seriously, this is some stellar work. I don't think I've seen a video propose such comparisons with existential philosophy and the many characters made by Toby Fox. I'm sure people have drawn parallels before, just not this directly and with this many examples. And I really like your conclusion, that the real answer isn't in terribly complicated musings on treatises on treatises on treatises, or deep struggles against a meaningless reality. But it's in finding where you belong. Where home is. Because as long as you know where home is, you can always go home.
I don’t know what to say, I have so many thoughts. Thank you for this. You join the pantheon of channels with Toby Fox videos that use the game and the medium of CZcams to say something…more. You’ve done one of the best ones of that “genre” too!
Thank you for the ending of this message. As a person who currently is trying to find a way to have my own home. I am currently in despair thank you for this message I actually teared up a bit.
I think somebody once said “if you go on seeing through and rejecting everything you’re left with nothing to see, so essentially you’re just blind”
I might be adding some words, but yeah.
We’ve had the answers to our modern problems for a long time, and they are buried within the intuition of every person if you don’t want to try a decipher classical religious and philosophical texts.
Oh nice I love discussions about creators. I think kotaro uchikoshi desperately needs a video like this to spread awareness about his games.
^^^^
kotato WHOchikoshi
As a huge Uchikoshi fan (he's super awesome both as a person and creator), I would *LOVE* Moon to do a video on the philosophies you can get from the AISF series and Zero Escape! Those games helped get me through some of my darkest years growing up, ironically, and helped me become the inspired writer I am today! ^w^
I finished 999 recently and it made me genuinely want to be a writer.
Wow, I've seen a bit of the other videos on this channel, but this is without a doubt the best one I have seen so far. The constant repetition of there is a home out there just for you near the end really reminds me a lot of One Piece. A very minute spoiler if you haven't read that series yet, but that's a constant theme with the main conflicts within the climax of many main character's character arcs in One Piece. Being away from home. Away from a place where your Maslow's hierarchy of needs are met to a degree you yourself are satisfied with. I am one of the normies you probably presumably made this video for, and I was actually, like that Nietzche 4chan post implied, of the thought that most of the people in this video were atheists/agnostics/whatever similar term for non-religious people and/or nihilistic, and it was actually surprising to me that some of them were the exact opposite and were actually actively trying to defeat those types of people with reason. You say video games make such philosophical concepts more accessible, but I argue you and other content creators help make philoophy far more digestable than any video game I have encountered so far, and for that thank you.
17:14 If you abstract too close to the sun...
Your critic of the absurd is spot on. Over the years in my attempt to find my own meaning in things if there is one thing I have started to notice is that it's now harder to relate to people and I have to make an effort to remember to consider myself within my conseptions
The existential nihilism of BUY RAID SHADOW LEGENDS CONSUME CONSUME CONSUME.
BE EXPLOITED LIKE CATTLE FOR FACELESS CORPORATIONS! SPEND SPEND SPEND!
This is a beautiful video, and I've been looking forward to it for a while. I very much love Toby's answer to nihilism, and one day I plan on making this quite literal. Your music choice was also ideal for this topic - Siivagunner rips are the perfect mix of the whimsy of the soundtrack and combining it with other classical melodies
Throwing in parts of the greatest speech ever in the end there was a nice touch
I can only assume the image that you used when you said Berdly was Ayn Rand and your commitment to that joke brings me great joy
That conclusion legit made me tear up a little
This is 100% what I love. Best channel of the year for me.
man, what a fantastic video--learned a ton about both philosophy and Undertale/Deltarune that I never knew before! Also, that message about home at the end got me crying, thank you for that 😭🙏
Wow, almost cried at the end. I was struggling with nihilist thoughts for year now and this video actually helped. Thank you Moon
i thought "geez why is this entire argument just my view of life" and then i realised
i've been into undertale since i was, like, 11 years old, i've hold it close to me through some of the most defining and important moments of my life. i've always said undertale influenced stuff like my standards for entertainment and my sense of humor, but it may have influenced me way more than i've realised until now
Why did a pie recipe make me cry
I've loved a lot of your videos but of course to this one you had me choking up by the end. Thanks for being so aware
This is a very fun and valuable ride
So... I've been enjoying many of these video's, your very skilled at explaining deep, and dense subjects in an entertaining manner, I never mind when you go into deeper history. But the concept of home.... It put so many feelings into words... of a thing I've lacked for over 2/3rds in the places I've lived, what I've at least managed to touch online... What I hope to build with my boyfriend as I finally end a very bumpy chapter in my life, nervous that I'll trip at the finish, and just hoping to keep it up. I'm going to watch this entire channel, no doubt, and while you probably had it coming from a few videos past, this is what made me subscribe. Thank you for the thought provoking and emotionally resonating content.
I wouldn't really care if it turns out we aren't real, because this whole time, we felt like we are real and this world felt real for us this whole time.
That doesn't change even if we learn we aren't real. Well actually, what does "not being real" mean ? That we're creations from higher beings ? Religious people already think that and live just fine.
Even if we exist in a work of fiction for these higher beings, our feelings still feel real for us, so I don't really care if we're "not real".
This video may be one of my favorites of all time on this site, thank you for making this little masterpiece.
i can't believe this has less than 100k views... this is so incredibly well written, well researched, well explained. this is the first of your videos i've seen, but i'll definitely be tuning in for more.
It's the first video I've seen on this channel and I've seen this topic that I've been trying to understand for some time but every time anyone I talk to doesn't understand me, but when I watched the video it helped me understand better. Good job and great video.
I only found this channel maybe a week or 2 ago? And I'm so glad I did, this has been a really good watch! I love thinking about stuff like this and trying to figure out where my own compass sits, but I kind of agree with Toby; belonging is meaning. I have many "homes", and I'm glad to say that CZcams, and specifically CZcamsr's like you, Markiplier, MatPat, RagnarRox, DarylTalksGames and probably a bunch of others, are one of my homes 😊
I belong here because I enjoy being part of a group of people who enjoy the same mental gymnastics I do and derive some kind of meaning from experiencing and sharing the knowledge we glean from over-thinking about things that are probably absurd!
So yeah, this channel has become a home for me now too and helps me on my worst days - when depression and nihilism overwhelm me, it's here that I come to (my CZcams analysts) to soak my brain in knowledge and remind me to learn and question to pull meaning from everything around me.
Thanks man ❤
honestly this was a really great video essay and i may or may not have cried a little towards the end. one can probably guess which character i felt most symathy for via my profile picture. I feel like the absurdity of spamton is great and funny but also entirely depressing. And that is how I feel very often, making jokes while simultaneously being depressed bec of life.
Thank you Mr Moon for this great video!
Moony, you made me think so much and then made me cry at the end. I'm writing this in tears just to tell you thank you for making videos like this. I may not have a "home", but I know that the light inside me will never dwindle.
You just don't stop with the absolutely awesome and indepth video essay. Amazing work! Thoroughly enjoyed it.
You're one hell of a fine human, Mr. Moon. Brilliant, creative, funny, but most of all, compassionate. You're a genuine role model, which is something I didn't even think still existed! Keep being awesome.
I cried! 😭
A well considered and perspective altering video, like always! So inspirational on multiple levels!❤
15:39 "The most incomprehensible of course, being Homestuck." Absolute banger line. Not a whiff of a lie.