Mastering Foreshadowing || DELTARUNE and UNDERTALE [Theory/Analysis]
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- čas přidán 16. 03. 2024
- I wanted to add my two cents on how Toby Fox mastered foreshadowing in Undertale, and what it could mean for Deltarune. I have my own theories I wanted to say and bring to light.
I wanted to make this video for a while now, but finally got to it. This was a great learning experience.
Music by Appearance
Memory - Toby Fox
Undertale - Toby Fox
Pathetic House - Toby Fox
Spider Dance - Toby Fox
Checker Dance - Toby Fox
Nyeh Heh Heh! - Toby Fox
Oh! Dungeon - Toby Fox
You Can Always Come Home - Toby Fox
Thrash Machine - Toby Fox
Rouxls Kaard - Toby Fox
Knock You Down !! - Toby Fox
Snowy - Toby Fox
Man - Toby Fox
April 2012 - Toby Fox
The Dark Truth - Toby Fox
Card Castle - Toby Fox
ANOTHER HIM - Toby Fox
NOW'S YOUR CHANCE TO BE A - Toby Fox
The Circus - Toby Fox
Imminent Death - Toby Fox
Vs. Susie - Toby Fox
A Town Called Hometown - Toby Fox
(Ill remember to put this in the end of a video in the future)
Timecodes
0:00 - Intro
4:15 - Explanation
10:00 - Deltarune
12:05 - Where I actually talk about Deltarune
17:05 - him
18:49 - The mandated Secret Boss discussion
20:27 - Hey remember the Glowshards? What's up with that?
22:33 - This is the part where I- "SUSIE KNOWS HEALING MAGIC!"
24:00 - Closing Thoughts - Hry
![Follow up to Mastering Foreshadowing || DELTARUNE [Theory/Analysis]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/8GiQHRWkPoQ/mqdefault.jpg)
![Follow up to Mastering Foreshadowing || DELTARUNE [Theory/Analysis]](/img/tr.png)
Regarding Susie’s healing magic, Toby said this prior to chapter 2’s release:
“…a certain character will learn a certain type of spell that they aren’t really good at. Actually, they’re so bad at it there’s essentially no reason to have them use it at first. But the fact that they learned it and keep practicing it is really heartwarming.”
wait a second does that description work for both susie's 'ultimate heal' and noelle's 'snowgrave' cus if so thats some crazy shit
calling noelle's snowgrave "heartwarming" has the same vibes as shaoji calling the next part of the honkai story "wholesome"
@@johnfromfacebook2550I’d say Noelle is too good at Snowgrave
@@johnfromfacebook2550
Uh... Noelle can deal good Ice damage though
Is Susie going to heal Noelle's dad??
My favorite part of foreshadowing in UNDERTALE, which a lot of people don't seem to point out, is Asgore's buildup.
You hear his name (in capital red letters) once from Toriel as something that's supposed to be the biggest threat for you in the monster world, but then nothing for a while.
In the meantime you hear about "the king" (in yellow letters) from Papyrus and later Monster kid, and that he's apparently named Mr. Dreemurr and is super nice and lovable.
And finally at the end of Waterfall, Undyne casually drops the reveal by saying,
"King ASGORE Dreemurr..."
Confronting you with the fact that the adorable king is also the person who wants you dead. And then all the subsequent information you learn about him contributes to slowly understanding the contradiction and how both can be true.
I think thats becuase a lot of people sadly got spoiled, as people who played undertale at the very beginning probably didnt even think that was a spoiler.
@@user-fd3hd3yy3x i also think people don't really remember the name that's dropped earlier
Rangu found out that way. Got floored
@@gabrote42I didn't know I'd find another rangdict around here.
@@k.n2574 he introduced me to no less than a fifth of my early tastes. He's still my preferred way of showing people Shu Takumi games and Pacifist Undertale (in spanish). Too bad he didn't get to play AA5, AA6 or GK2
also remember that deltarune was conceived far before undertale and undertale was always meant to effectively be toby’s resume to get what he needed for deltarune
Well, the ending and general scripta were prepared around 2012-13, based on an August 2011 fever dream of a game with an ending. Deltarune has been stated to be a mix of that game, for which not a single room was made, and Undertale, which had spun off some of the themes of the original and seemed like a good test bed. So it was kind of half-conceived back then. Susie had much more in common with Maya Fey, for example
And he went WAY too overboard on the resume
In a good way.
Well, that's the best resume ever then
"a mage leaving the party"
....oh shit susie knows healing magic
and also rude buster
i mean... noelle knows healing AND a pacifying spell. she can pretty much just fully replace ralsei on her own.
@@keaton5101except Noelle dies to a sneeze while ralsei dies to 3 sneezes instead
@@User-xh5zu well there's plenty of time for her to get Stronger.
@@keaton5101
Heh, stronger, yeah
I just realized that the “create a machine to thrash your own ass” might be its own checkov’s gun (or just foreshadowing) about the goner maker sequence at the beginning of chapter 1 (or i guess it’s technically the other way around, but i guess it still works)
which i would take to imply that we’re going to have to fight our own creation somewhere down the line.
(Or it could be a switcheroo and it’s instead going to be “the creation that *saves* your own ass”)
Since we were supposed to fight the Thrash machine- but then controlled, its a good chance the Goner will mirror... so... yeah, better hope you didn't pick pain as your favorite Flavor.
Aaaah about that, atleast i gifted them voice to express said enjoyment of pain
@@dantes_integrity Isnt' pain the default flavor if you start from chapter two without a chapter 1 save?
"Your Goner sucks ass. Is that okay?"
See, on top of that, I find it super fascinating that the thrash machine is thrown away. Literally in a dump. And then your choice of head effects your chapter 2 final boss fight. A little worrying how the vessel was thrown away and the choices you made for it are saved
Also likely an obvious chekov's gun: the vessel
That is not a Chekhov's gun, that is Chekhov's Artillery Cannon.
@@dantes_integrity haha incredible way of putting it!
@dantes_integrity it will leave chekovs massive crater once fired
Man I love it when the empty bugs take over the dark worlds
@@saratoga6663me when HK reference
Speaking of the "His theme" melody, I'd like to mention all the foreahadowing of the twist that Flowey is Asriel.
- Flowey greets you with the same 'Howdy!' as Asgore does.
- When Monsters tell you the story of Chara and Asriel, it's mentioned how the first golden flowers grew on Goatbro's dust.
- When reffering to Monsters as a whole, Flowey uses face of Toriel, AKA the Monster he spent the most time with.
- "His theme" melody can be heard in "Finale"
- During the post-omega battle monologue he quotes himself after being ressurected ('Mommy! Daddy! Somebody help!'), and after that he says 'See what good it does to you!', like he speaks from experience.
- Alphys mentions in her notes that the flower she injected with Determination was specifically the first one to grow on Asriel's dust.
Also after you fight Toriel he mentions that he is 'the prince of this world's future'
I don't know if that is forshadowing or not, but it feels like it could be
An excellent lineup :D It's so easy to miss details like that. I have...well I have _something_ to add, I dunno what exactly.
Right as you're about to leave the True Lab, you get a phone call, and the narration says that it's "a voice you've never heard before". But it also says that in the slowest text imaginable. Almost like something's up with the narrator. Just like something was wrong with them just a minute ago in the Snowdrake's Mother battle.
I don't imagine "The narrator is an actual character in the story" is news to most fans of Undertale at this point, so I'll stop being coy and get to the point. The voice that plays is, indeed, one you have not heard yet. It's Asriel's voice. But not his normal kid-form voice. It's the voice given to the older-looking, transformed Asriel who you fight shortly afterwards. But Chara recognized that voice. After thinking their best friend was dead all this time, hearing that spooks them something bad, especially since I imagine Chara is smart enough to figure out from this that he's been Flowey the whole time. That's a lot of emotion to sort through in one moment; the fluffball and the flower really couldn't be more different. Small wonder the narration turns a bit wonky.
The thing that intrigues me most about all this is that Chara recognizes the "God of Hyperdeath" voice specifically. Just about the only time that could have come up is when Asriel first absorbed their soul and went to the surface. Which should in theory prove that that was how he appeared to those on the surface. (the robed goat form, not the Delta Rune form, I would imagine) It should also prove that Chara retains their memories of their time on the surface. I dunno if that's widely disputed, but I _have_ seen people suggest they probably wouldn't keep those memories, so there ya go.
This is INSANE. I see where you're coming from but I need at least one harder evidence. It would be a MADDENING reveal though, I'd pause the game for a minute if i saw that.
@@r.g.thesecond Are you talking to me, or to the original commenter? Because there is absolutely a direct reveal of Flowey-is-Asriel in the game. If you mean me, though, you'll have to be more specific so I know what reveal you're referring to.
@@riluna3695 well mostly the original commenter. I'm reading your comment again now but I'm still not any more convinced. The thing is, I first dismissed it because I don't see any direct connections to deltarune. Now I'm just confused. Is there any hint regarding Flowey/Asriel duality ever in deltarune? Isn't Flowey a done-and-gone character? Of course, there are future chapters to help with that but current canon lacks supporting evidence.
There are some things that I wish were discussed more in theorizing
1. [[It Burns! Ow! Stop! Help Me! It Burns!]] doesn't refer to the acid. The Japanese dub of the game has him say something along the lines of
"IN THE PAST, I WAS JUST IN CHARGE OF SENDING EMAILS, NOW I'M IN CHARGE OF [[Wait! It's Too Bright! My Eyes Hurt! STOP!!!]]"
2. *THERE ARE MULTIPLE THORN RINGS.*
If you beat up Spamton on his first encounter, he tells you you should have "DONE ALL THAT EARLIER! AND BEEN THE FIRST TO OWN MY [Commemorative Ring]", hinting at the Weird Route
However, if you abort a Weird Route and beat him up, he instead says:
""IT DOESN'T MEAN YOU CAN BEAT ME UP,. JUST BECAUSE YOU BOUGHT MY [Commemorative Ring]!. AT LEAST BUY [2]!"
3. The save files are ever-so-slightly different from eachother. While I'm not sure how important it'll be, it can be seen with Asriel's dresser, which has different dialogue depending on which save slot you're playing on
Regarding: 2
At Spamton's you can: Buy a [Commemorative Ring]!
for: [The Low Low Price Of] 0-49030 Kromer!
Regarding 3: There are also 3 Titans depicted in Ralsei's story and those Titans have save symbols as their faces.
I'm guessing they are in some way connected to the three save files. Maybe the Roaring is a meta way of the game acknowledging a true reset done by the player (the Titan's then destroying everything and the world gets erased aka the file is deleted)
Keygen is the other ring
@@schalomforeverDude... You reminded me my post on Reddit. I wrote that "True reset" OST sounds like steps... It makes more sense now. I will save it.
this seems
very
very
interesting
I've heard that Toby has said he likes the idea of someone having an ability that they gradually get better at, which is likely the point of Ultimate Heal
I like how you acknowledged that, while in theory possible, no one ever in their right mind would NOT make the Thrashing Machine a duck.
i didnt only because i was too scared the duck would be too hard to fight somehow lol
I didn't do it because I wanted to make it silly. It was a tank with a sword head.
I like guns, not ducks
Guess I not in my right mind then
I really liked the thoughts you brought up in this video, and have some of my own:
Okay, first, can anyone explain to me in which way Ralsei's and Noelle's healing magic are connected to light? And in which way Susie's healing isn't?Cause this whole Ultimate healing idea kinda hinges on that. So far all I know about light and dark im the party is that susie, Kris and Noelle are Lightners and that Ralsei is a Darkner, literally the prince of darkness. That seems kinda counter intuitive to me.
Also, about "how to draw dragons" being a chekovs gun: every single piece of information about that book, including getting the money, is optional information. You can literally miss all of it while still finishing both chapter 1 and 2. That is not how a chekovs gun works. It would need to be part of the main story. They could be important Infos, yes, but I would call them secrets instead.
There's something *extremely important* that you forgot about during the Onionsan segment. It's a callback to what River Person said about "the old song coming from the sea", as well as possibly the Sound Test fun event, being that "it's not a 'new' song" and only a piece of it is heard.
Yeah, Misty Sparkles uploaded the Updated Gaster Video a couple of days after this video, I am considering making a follow up video, since a couple of things have been brought that feel worthy of talking about.
@@dantes_integrityShe's far from the first to make that connection, but regardless, that'd be cool.
There are theories stating that this could be referring to Penumbra Phantasm. But who knows?
Don't forget that the room where can occur the Sound Test Event is near to a river...
(Now I'm wondering: and if Riverperson already knew about the Sound Test?)
@@rcktneoofusaGiven they know about Gaster and things relating to him, it'd be strange if River Person didn't also know about the Sound Test. All those are thus also teases for Deltarune, regardless of if the Old Song is from the Sound Test specifically.
The real question is: who and what is the River Person for them to know all this?
"Chekhov, why do you have so many guns!? You don't have enough hands to shoot them all!"
-Chekhov's Closest Companion.
chekhov later dramatically reveals himself to have multiple hands
@@machinedramon3532 Chekhov was an octopus
One other Chekhov's gun I'm surprised you didn't bring up was Ice-E, because he was a very minor character in Undertale only appearing in a word search but in Deltarune he's everywhere because he's a company mascot. It's also hinted at the Ice-E will have a major role in Deltarune's story as evidenced by Noelle's blog post. Also if you think about it the Ice-E;s Pezza in Hometown is pretty suspicious!
Secret Boss 3 will actually be Yoshi.
Also, I find it funny Gaster mentions Deltarune "glowing brightly from our hope" and the glow shard's worth increases each chapter
where did he say that?
Third comment > The bunker feels like Chekovs Nuke
It's also worth mentioning that Onion's song in Deltarune was actually foreshadowed as far back as UNDERTALE. One of Riverperson's quotes is "did you hear the old song coming from the sea?" Whatever's going on with Onion, it is clearly very, VERY important, and I cannot WAIT to see how that specific gun gets fired.
The hospital seems like a candidate for a dark fountain. Rudolph is in the hospital, his daughter likes Susie, SUSIE KNOWS HEALING MAGIC. SUSIE BEEING ABLE/UNABLE TO HEAL RUDOLPH!? BONDING MOMENT? BIG TRAGEDY? WHO KNOWS! I'M EXCITED.
Toby is a huge Tragedy Fan indeed, we love to see it (Crying my eyes out)
25:49 It's funny you mentioned that because at least two Knight-themed characters have attempted to open a Fountain onscreen (Kris and Berdly). Considering Susie's class title is Dark Knight....I meaaaaan liiiiike....
🥚
Thank you for the egg
There is not a man behind this tree.
I would argue about Kris not being knight-themed, their Dark World outfit is as knight-like as you could imagine. They even use a sword and a shield. (you could streatch it out and say their friend is pretty dragon-like)
@@LittleDevilAkuma Yes. Kris is knight-themed. With armor and a sword like that you can't really spin into anything else.
@@LittleDevilAkuma Berdly is connected to the theme of Knight because he's the Knight In Glow-In-The-Dark Armor
the interesting thing about Noelle and Ralsei's rpg class comparisons
Noelle is the holy themed cleric but learns offensive (ice) and debuffing (sleep) magic like a typical black mage
while Ralsei is themed after a classical wizard but only knows healing magic
is this important? no probably not its just an interesting thing to note
Eh, Noelle has healing. Single element damage and debuffs are pretty standard for RPG healers.
As for Ralsei… maybe he’s not a Black Mage: maybe he’s a _summoner._
I wanted to frame this as some kind of dramatic reveal to sit on, but I should probably explain what the hell I mean. Uh, so summoner is a way less explored class than Cleric or Mage. As far as I know, the main summoner ever is Yuna from Final Fantasy X. She acts as that game’s main healer, and can also summon stuff. Her outfit is a simple dress, somewhat resembling a kimono. Other summoners technically exist, but I can’t be bothered to vet which examples existed before Ralsei’s design.
Aesthetically, summoners tend to share the wizard’s flowing robes, largely the only wizard signifier Ralsei has without his hat. Taking off the hat was framed as a big deal, so who’s to say. Maybe the obvious Black Mage (ff1) design was a red herring.
My main goal early on was to rugpull the whole “Ralsei’s based on a wizard” premise. My first thought was running through the DnD casters, especially Druid and Warlock, but I wound up writing Summoner because of the possible Lore implications. There are a lot of cool angles for Summoner Ralsei, especially regarding the SOUL and Kris’s backstory.
Even without any connection to Kris, Ralsei sure wants you to recruit people, huh. I can’t really expand on this point, but Yuna’s goal was also to recruit monsters!! It’s very wholesome and cute, trust.
if we're going by Final Fantasy classes, white mages do still know Offensive magic, I mean just looking at FFV one of the highest White spells is Holy, which deals high Light elemental damage to one target. And they have more than a few debuffs, actually. Silence and Mini at Job rank 2, and Confuse at rank 3, though their next white debuff, berserk, happens at level 5 and that one can be helpful to use on yourself, if you know what you're doing.
Honestly based on the end of the video one weird thing in the game is even though Susie is clearly based on a barbarian class I believe she's actually described as a knight in the menu. I feel like that's less a Chekov's gun than potentially foreshadowing she may also eventually make a fountain (possibly in desperation near in the end of the story? Who knows!).
Susie Making a fountain is a very logical guess in the sense of Story telling. I will put it in the armory.
she is called a "dark knight" iirc
Berdly calls himself a knight in shining armor too
@@leedlelel2373*glow in the dark lol
@@aykarain ah right lol
When I first saw the house in New Home I thought: my character was dead and that the whole game was playing back memories of my life, (as interpreted by these crazy monster characters) New Home was a vision of Frisk's actual home. The monsters show up and tell you the actual story, but it's just awesome how the feeling of "nostalgia" was so well crafted in the scene
Two guns that I’m surprised weren’t mentioned were Spamton NEO and the Eggs. Neo is a gun that’s already fired, and it was set up all the way back in Undertale when Mettaton Neo got killed in one hit. Everyone thought that was the end of it. But then in Deltarune, Spamton NEO came back as a real version of that fight. Just like how the puzzle comes back in a real form instead of when it backfired on Papyrus.
And then there’s the eggs given by the mystery man, which are definitely being set up for something.
While that is true, and very important, I did want to talk more about the lesser known or obvious ones. Spamton Neo is pretty big and well known that others have already talked about.
Also for the Eggs, 13:14
Calling it now, the eggs are an elaborate troll from Toby.
@@thatonespooder1513 Deltarune's korok seeds
@@halelolelcan't wait to get 2 more inventory spaces and literal poop.
Yahaha!
The Glowshard in Chapter 2 has the description that its value increases every chapter, the Dog Dollar you get from the toby secret death being a play on that because its value decreases every chapter
It could be a possibility that the Glowshards have more importance, but for now it just seems like they're an item you keep around until the late game in order to sell for a lot.
Okay, So:
If that is true, if that is the purpose, then lets do the Math.
Lets say there are One Glowshard per Chapter, so a total of Seven Glowshards. If I am reading the code correctly, the Glowshard increases at a rate of (Ch*50)+100.
So by Chapter Seven, it will be 450.
Meaning the Total will be 3150... That, compared to some items in chapter 2, is a lot. But if we are accumulating wealth every chapter, that isn't a lot really. You could probably grind that number pretty easily.
Sure, if you need 3150 G in one sudden instant, than sure, but that really isn't much all things considered.
@@dantes_integrityprehaps you’d lose all your money right at the point where a really good item could be bought, that could be where the glowshards would be used to sell
@@dantes_integrity For me this comment threat duplicated somehow XD But anyway, in this we ARE only focusing on the GlowShard. True, it increases in value every chapter, so it becomes valuable as time goes on. But what about the DogDollar?
It decreases in value every chapter. Could there be a point where it's sell value becomes negative? And as Chemist stated, there could be a point where you lose all your money. In their example, you sell the glowshards to earn enough for the item you wouldn't be able to get otherwise.
But what if the reverse is true? If you sell the DogDollar without any money, while it's sell value is negative, you could go into negative money. I'm not sure if this would count as debt, as it could be a whole different part of the DarkDollar currency.
And if a shop requires negative money to buy things.... Idk, just a thought.
@@dantes_integrity isn't TwistedSword made from a thorn ring and a pure crystal?
Maybe 7 glowshards from a pure crystal?
"When memory meets melody and makes something magnificent."
Edgar Allen Poe has nothing on this one.
“Go back and look at that fern. Stanley, this fern will be very important later in the story. Make sure you study it closely and remember it carefully.” - Stanely Parable Narrator
That would be a subversion of Chekhovs Gun!
Which Toby already did as well with the very important characters named Heats Flamesman and Hots Fireguy :D
One thing that could possibly hold some relevance is the books upstairs. in the library, there is a running gag where one of the hometown residents tells you "how great the books upstairs are, starting with them blocking the doorway upstairs in chapter 1, and having them let you see a small portion of the books upstairs in chapter 2. This gag will probably lead to the monster letting us see all the books upstairs, with there either being some big reveal about a character or the dark world, or what I think it might be, a small area for you to put the book once you've gotten rid of the debt and rewarding Kris a single egg (that last part probably isn't true, but the rest of it might be!)
That Hometown resident is a Gaster Follower.
This is something I've commented on way to many theory videos, but I have a general time line of events I think works well for what we know. Based of the fact that Alphys states in Ch2 that there isn't school the day after, Asriel comes back 'next week' and Toby can't keep making excuses for Kris to miss school.
Ch1: Thursday
Ch2: Friday
Ch3: Friday night/ early Saturday morning
Ch4: Saturday (If we loose Toriel too the weird route it won't have as many implications if she doesn't have a class to teach for the remainder of the game. Like how Berdly is written to not be to important that his death derails everything.)
Ch5: Sunday (The day church is held, making the perfect time for Rudy to die and advance Noelle's plot.)
Ch6: Monday (The start of next week where Asreil comes home for the festival, which Kris has the day off school for.)
Ch7: The Roaring and end of the game. (Would school faculty be stingy enough to make kids go to class in the apocalypse?)
Does this conflict with anything? I don't think I missed anything but I want to hear your opinion! This video is great!
A couple of things, based on the original schedual being that Chapter 3-4-5 were supposed to be released at the same time, makes me wonder if the three chapters take place on the same day.
Which- would make sence, since Rudy said that he wished to go to the Church Service "Tommorow"
So, this isn't based on any evidence- this is solely my interpretation of events, but-
Chapter 3: Toriels House, Saturday Morning.
Chapter 4: The Church, Saturday... day.
Chapter 5: The Hospital, Saturday Night.
The Hospital is the perfect place for the Ice Palace, freezing time for just a moment to avoid the inevitable Death of Rudolph Holiday.
@@dantes_integrity Totally missed Rudy saying church was the next day lol. I love your idea of the hospital room reflecting the Dragon Blazers Ice Palace! I complements the legend from the start of the game spectacularly; if you take heaven in a figurative sense (i.e. "This is the kind of thing that only happens in dreams! This is Heaven." juxtaposed to "I have to work with Berdly, this is Hell.") "Banishing the Angel's Heaven" could very literally be rejecting the ideal fantasy Noelle holds where Rudy stays alive. None the less your version of evens works better than mine so I'll take the adjustment.
Now we can stand in solidarity against those who think the close of Chapter 2 is another fake out! (Seriously do you realize how hard it would be to plunge a knife through all the layers of the floor and a metal pipe?)
I don't see why Kris has to miss school? Unless he can't escape the dark world he created for all the 5 chapters?
About the "Mage left the party!" Well, I personally think it could have been referring to Noelle. & the events of what happened in Chapter 2. (In the normal route she was only a party member for a bit, and in the weird route she leaves after she had been pushed too far to cast the Snowgrave spell) But you didn't bring up the mention of Torial who is speculated to be a party member in Chapter 3. Because you know...SHE WAS IN THE LIVING ROOM WHERE KRIS OPENED THE DARK FOUNTAIN!!! It's obvious that she would be a mage like character as well because of here knowing Fire Magic in Undertale.
I have a few other Deltarune theories if you want to talk about them with me!
That is a very good point actually.
And for Toriel, she honestly slipped my mind for that section. But yeah, she is definitely another magic user. I don't know how she would play into the party dynamics though- she could honestly go any direction in regards being the 'caring mother' archetype- but I remember in Undertale how she can just intimidate other monsters into not attacking. Out of all the characters in Undertale, I really don't have a good read on her- even less so in Deltarune- so I am excited on how she will be in the future chapters.
I just wanna say
I feel kris is not THE knight but A knight.
Why does Spamton panic so much when asked about the knight then?
I think the pie will be a checkov’s gun. Like, Deltarune’s biggest cg is the duck, and it’s something that initially seems serious, is immediately played off for laughs, then has a role later. I think the pie cutscene in chapter 1 will be similar
personally i think its already sort of paid off with the end of chapter 2? kris creates a tv dark world, and while the tv was unplugged in chapter 1 its plugged in by the start of chapter 2, suggesting they plugged it in for this purpose while on their pie escapade
I think the pie scene and the dark setup before that are two completely different situations. Like Toriel heading to their room brought a terrifying memory for Kris while they were not too awake, something for us to brush off because of what happens right after. Maybe even that memory was what got Kris to eat that pie, from stress.
we love our he/him lesbian rep
That whole segment took longer than it should have to make for a joke I thought of on the two minute walk to the grocery's store, but it was worth it.
Berlusconipilled
@@Pepsiman1848ITALY MENTIONED ‼️🗣️
@@godoatthegoat2884 bonjur Rahhhh
I feel so represented 😊
The graveyard, with the objects buried, and Father Alvin mentioning the item burial ritual again definitely makes me think that is going to be relevant at some point in the story again.
Especially since there is the interesting question: what happens when an item infused with the essence of a monster is introduced into a Dark Fountain?
Father Alvin, talks ominously of Gerson’s buried Hammer. / Gerson and his works is also brought up a lot in an of itself.
Beyond that we also have Rudy, if his life is indeed to come to pass, I’m certain we might be seeing the ritual process… And Noelle in loss might throw caution to the wind to try and see him again.
Fantastic video and takes, very illuminating discourse.
Also +2 on being a Kris Knight truther. We just keep on getting W’s.
You missed the biggest Chekhov's gun of all...
Alvin's graveyard scene.
Chekov's hammer
you’ve heard of Toby Fox using musical leitmotifs, now get ready for his… narrative leitmotifs…
really cool video!! very well thought-out and put together. genuinely thank you for defining Chekhov’s Gun through an example so I didn’t have to look it up halfway through
Hey so my mind got stuck on the idea of looking out for a party member that sucks in the future of Deltarune- with the whole Dragon Blazers connection.
I noticed something interesting about the thing Susie says before that..."It's like when your sister gets cursed in Dragon Blazers 2.", is what was said specifically.
"Sister". "Cursed".
...huh. I know we have a lot of pre-conceived notions on what happened to 'her', obviously, but...I intend to keep my eye on this. If we see her again in a sorry state, I'll feel super vindicated (and upset obviously). Or maybe I'll just be wrong, Idk.
But that's what's FUN about this! You've introduced me to a really fun angle to take Deltarune theorizing into. It's really awesome how different "guns" can stick out to different people, leading them to different conclusions- I love that. Kudos!
OMFG SOMEONE ELSE WHO THINKS YOU CAN PAY OFF THE LIBRARY DEBT!!
I noticed this a while back. It's also worth noting that there are going to be 7 chapters, and you can get $10 in Chapter 2. If you get $10-$15 a chapter from here on out, you will get juuust enough by the end of the week - the exact amount of time Berdly gave you to repay the debt.
...But on the other hand, maybe the theory that this game begins on Thursday is accurate and we'll get like $55 before the fair. Maybe we can lug our TV and old games to Mettaton and pawn it off on him or something - he was waking for 'something entertaining' if you talk to him in Chapter 2.
Personally, I think it's going to be related to Berdly.
Notably, there is this weird hidden dialogue change if you give Berdly the plushie of himself - later in the chapter, he's slightly warmer to you in one dialogue in an insignificant way. This may imply that depending on your choices, you can get Berdly to like you more.
This seems like it might connect, right? Like, Berdly doesn't seem like he has the authority to call the shots on your debt, he's just being a smug idiot who likes to harass you on this. So doing all this counterintuitive nonsense seems like it'd be purely to play along with Berdly and to sorta do something nice for him. And, obviously, it's also related to him because you won't be able to pay off your debt if he's dead.
So... My theory is there is a whole "Get Berdly To Like You" mechanic. Maybe this will be like Final Fantasy 7 and result in an awkward Berdly Date once the town fair starts up. Heck, his sprites are already there and you can get him to join the party for one room - Maybe you can even recruit him!
Chekhovs gun more like floweys flamethrowers
This is honestly one of the best theory video i've seen, doesn't seek for too much detail and just goes for the throat, the controller being the secret boss makes too much sense to not be the secret boss
Can’t believe how underrated this video is
To be fair, it is my only upload currently, and a few days old, so it is but a fly to the algorithm
Regarding the Ultimate Healing, I can totally imagine a future secret boss weapon buffing it. And with Light Crystals I find them very interesting because Malius has an option to craft a Twisted Sword fusing something called a "pure crystal" and the goddamn Thorn Ring, and I think Light and purity as concepts are not too far apart.
15:00 -- as an aside, most libraries will call the book a loss and just accept payment as you "buy" the book at a larger price than the cost of the book if you keep it too long.
Im pretty sure the dragon book is just a furry joke and it confuses me how so few people seem to pick up on it
"Why would Asriel never return this book?!" Uhhhh it has a lewd-posing dragon on the cover. I have a few theories
I mean, I did a whisper close to mic when I was talking about it over "Your Brother will never return this book"
We get the joke.
And you can make Susie, who is also a purple reptile, see said interest on his Cyber World room
regarding the trashing machine and how we assemble it, I thought it'd be important to point out that it could be a "tutorial" of sorts on how the vessel from the begining of the game will come back later in the game
like in ch1 you'd think building it was all, but in ch2 it showed up again unexpectedly
and for the vessel, building it in ch1 was it for now, but if you compare it to the trashing machine you can see a similarity (also it's worth noting that both the vessel and the blueprints were discarded at the end of their original appearance - we don't know where the vessel is but it's safe to assume it will be back)
a similar thing can be said about what happens with berdly's injuries in ch2 - if he gets injured in the dark world (like getting his hand zapped in the queen fight, or getting ... yanno, Frozen, in snowgrave), that has a (not 1-to-1 but) clear consequence in the light world, which also is some sort of foreshadowing i feel (maybe even the idea many people have that if injuries transfer, then the healing could too, so rudy could be brought to the dark world and healed, and he would also be healed when he returned)
I heard gun and I am intrigued maybe we can end up finding an actual gun like Asgore's police gun in future chapters in the flowerstore from when he was still a cop.
Maybe an umdertale yellow reference?
Asriel's thing in the drawer that changes in each save file is most likely the chapter 3 secret boss
10:20 "We will burn that bridge when we get to it"
Ah... i see you have also read that one Tumblr post.
Amazing first video
There's one that's more meta and I think wasn't really intentional on Toby's part, but, in the "SURVEY_PROGRAM" demo for Chapter 1, the door to the computer lab was a single door. But, when Chapter 2 came out, it was retroactively changed to be double-doors. And that ONE small change put a HUGE GLOWING TARGET on every pair of double-doors in town as to what will be a potential Dark World location.
The one that sticks out the most to me are the barred doors on the upper floor of Flower King, they're almost the EXACT SAME dimensions as the new computer lab doors, if I were a betting man I'd go all-in on that prediction.
Kris being the Knight seems too obvious to me, not to mention that the end of chapter 2 seems to be their first time creating a Dark World, on account of the timing. Right before they leave the computer lab dark world, Queen explains how the Knight makes dark worlds, and the first thing Kris does when in control is create a dark world.
ive never actually seen someone beat the mettaton chamber puzzle before holy shit
glitchless undertale speedrunner does it blazing fast
The thing about Rudy’s illness is that I’m not sure whether the trope will be played straight or subverted. On one hand, Rudy passing away of illness would be a moment of emotional destruction for Noelle. On the other hand, we *are* playing a game by Toby ‘Grandmaster of 4D Chess’ Fox. So basically I’m really curious to see what will happen to Rudy in future chapters.
Forget a gun, "Suzie knows healing magic" is a goddamn Chekhov's rocket launcher.
"Mage left the party!" ----> "Ralsei left the party!" ----> "Susie becomes healer/mage of the party!"
L is stands for Logic.
Berdley’s actually more a dragoon than a Paladin, his elemental attacks are based on wind magic, he weilds a lance-the usual Final Fantasy Weapon for Dragoons, and his actions in chapter 2 mirror the most famous dragoon in game history: Kain Highwind from FFIV, who thinks he’s doing right working for the empire, but discovers late his failure to see who is truly righteous.
This put a new prospective to me into why Toby’s leitmotifs are so powerful. I always cry when “undertale” plays in the castle
I AM SUBSCRIBER #32
THE QUALITY OF THIS VIDEO IS VERY
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THE TIME WHERE THIS CHANNEL WILL BLOW UP IS
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Holy Jesus, it’s the Fortnite man..
@@dantes_integrityand i am subscriber #96
Susie *learns* Healing Magic.
This is the first time we've heard of a monster *LEARNING* a new type of magic.
The thing about Ralsei being the mage that leaves the party is crazy to me, my jaw dropped a little when the picture of Ralsei's robes came up and it clicked like "Oh shit that could totally happen!" Awesome theory, it's crazy how people are STILL coming up with new and interesting takes that make sense. This whole video is really well put together, you've earned yourself a fan today!
Theres also something very minimal in chapter 2 which i dont see very much talked about. I like to call this one, Chekhov's Joke. In chapter 2, Queen throws cages to kris ralse and susie and misses completely. She however states that it wasnt a miss, but a tactical calibration. Then says she only has 4 cages left. Then, when you reach her mansion, noelle is captured via cage because she is distracted, leaving her with 3 cages left. Then she throws the cages towards kris susie and berdly, who unlike noelle, are fully alert expecting something to happen, yet they are captured and the cages dont miss. This is because the 3 remaining cages were previously calibrated. It wasnt a miss, it was a tactical calibration.
I was on the "Kris is the Knight" train ever since Ch. 1 was released with no idea if we'd ever get more.
But after finishing Ch. 2, I've since changed lanes. Now I'm in the camp of "Kris is A Knight". As in, there are multiple Knights. One per dark fountain.
Awesome vid! I feel like the purpose of Susie learning healing magic is to symbolise her becoming more vulnerable and showing her softer side, since the only other spell she knows is rude/red buster, a big attack. Susie is scared of being vulnerable with others and showing weakness which is why she’s so aggressive, so by letting Ralsei teach her healing magic it shows her character development. I feel like when you get really into theorizing you tend to forget that not everything has to fit into the overarching plot/lore, UTDR is very character focused. Imo it’s probably nothing to worry about, but it’d be really nice to see Susie getting better at healing magic as she opens up to her friends more.
Also, when I first played the game, my thought was that Asriel didn’t want to return the book out of embarrassment because the dragon is dressed “immodestly” lol, and both Asriel and Toriel are religious and a little uptight. I could be wrong but that’s my reading.
The glowshard thing is really interesting, now that you mention it I’ve never really considered if they’ll be important later and the contrast with the shadow crystals is very interesting considering how the game is setting up the conflicting light and dark motifs as a huge thing. On one hand it would feel a little meanspirited to hide major lore behind something so easy to miss, but maybe it’ll be something special for us completionists.
ALSO am I the only one who thinks the thrash machine is a very direct parallel to the goner vessel? You have a sequence where you create something, it’s destroyed/discarded before you can use it and it seems like it won’t matter going forward… so to me this implies the vessel will have a lot of significance in later chapters. But I guess that kind of goes without saying anyways.
Lol sorry for the essay in your comments I get excited
absolutely love the SUSIE KNOWS HEALING MAGIC bit ❤
In the sweepstakes on Noelle’s page, she talks about the “cross shaped maze” where you have to go every direction, and then up, makes me think of this one game I played where it talked about something similar to that as apart of its lore (I won’t say what game because it’s kinda spoilers), but then it turned out it was just talking about the D pad of your controller.
Not sure if it’ll be related to anything like that, but it would be pretty interesting if it did!
At least put a spoiler warning, I wanna know!
I mean it's also a refence to a type of infinitely repeating one room maze that has existed in video games since Zelda 1.
@@charziz6693 Oh! I didn't think about that 😅
hey btw theres also a dnd class called a Dark knight. they're described as knights without leaders which fits into how kris occasionally fights back against the players control. just a fun fact :3
"I wish i could forget to relive that moment" oh how many times i had that thought after playing undertale
Congratulations: you’ve made me intrigued on the possibility of a Flowey-themed secret boss for chapter 3.
Not only that, there is more to it (Flowey-themed boss approval, I mean) : Spring Mini-Newsletter has ... a strangely big amount of Flowey in it. At least for 'mini' - newsletter. AND there was the same flowers as in Asgore's "Flower King" flower shop. Also, there was gif of Susie holding Kris who watering Ralsei, and then flower grows on Ralsei's hat.... Could it possibly mean something...?
@@Limetheartist I would love if every boss in Deltarune (after Jevil, I guess) ends up being a reference to someone specifically from Undertale. (Mettaton NEO, Flowey, ect.) That would be so awesome to me.
@@yellowpowr8455 We already have Spamton (NEO), who's a MTT (NEO :_ ) + a bit of Mad Dummy/ Mad Mew Mew specifically (this blend gives us a "former celebrity, now's disgraced and literally living in the dump guy" type of character with a certain robotic thematic).
So yes, it will be great if we'll have other UT-referred bosses or secret bosses. Flowey-referred character, for example. Or maybe... Undyne-referred? Dog squad - referred? Who knows. But also let give Toby a chance to make some unique, non-UT-related bosses (like Jevil, let's say).
@@Limetheartist Well, here's my thought process behind it: if the content of Deltarune continues to keep itself separate from Undertale, but the secret bosses going forward are nods to said game, I think that will be a nice balance.
Also, I just learned that apprantly Jevil was one of the early concepts for the original form of Deltarune, so his appearance as a secret chapter boss makes sense to me as an outlier.
The last one is good, I can easily think of a future event in which those 2 hp save the day
I just realized that the random puzzle machine being mettaton’s body could legit just be him present in that scene spying on you for alphys . We know papyrus buys mtt brand stuff so it could also just be in mettatons likeness. Either that or he is just the hardware for the puzzle.
don't forget the song "BIG SHOT" have the same motif of "The Power of NEO"
Onionsan’s conversation gets much more interesting now that we’ve found the original image used for IMAGES_DEPTHS
Adding on to the connection to the ocean, the original image for the vessel maker background was found and it turned out to be an edited picture of the ocean
One thing I just thought of (haven't finished the video, so might have been mentioned after the secret boss section) hinges the possibility that the game that Asriel was making was Undertale in some form, based on the description of a final boss that resembles God of Hyperdeath Asriel from the True Pacifist route.
Furthermore, a personal hunch that I've had since Chapter 2 dropped is that while Toby might be trying to misdirect by having Toriel call the cops with the assumption being that Undyne would show up and fall into the dark world, and I suspect that Undyne would call up her old boss Asgore to send him over since this is his estranged family after all.
What could come of this is unclear, but what if we get Undertale design Toriel and Asgore with certain parts of the Chapter 3 Dark World resembling the Underground while we explore the specifics of why Toriel divorced Asgore in Deltarune and possibly if they could reconcile (not necessarily remarry or anything, just be friends and/or be on a talking basis so Asgore can visit his children in their home, though on the topic of Chekov's Gun and Asgore's dialogue at the store, maybe on a Chapter 3 weird route one consequence could be their relationship rekindle beyond friendship to romance, with potential negative consequences in later chapters if assuming that the weird route is completely a bad route)? Also I would really like to see Toriel and Asgore's reactions to Ralsei, the potential lore or even just fluff there is juicy. EDIT: Formatting and typos
My money is on that if we do keep gaining money as the chapters go by the moment we get enough the interest will increase, so we will have to acquire the book at some point and since the next chapter is in Kris's house it might be the perfect time to get it.
Also I'm betting books will be Toriels weapon in chapter 3 so it will be like how we can take Noelle's watch from her and still have it in the light world
I have two things that I think will be significant that I don’t see many people talk about.
The pie. When Kris rips their Soul out in Chapter 2, they go through several extremely purposeful actions. So I don’t think in Chapter 1 they just wanted a snack. Toriel’s pie has healing powers. Maybe they lose health when separate from their Soul. Maybe whatever they were doing got them hurt.
The first zone we drop in. With the bubble piles and the dark eyes. Ralsei says that treating people with kindness makes a difference. I think that enemies we fail to recruit go there, and they WILL show up again
The damage noises played when Kris ripped their soul out, so it's definitely that.
Very good essay. I also love how many of these are set up to throw you off, like the Asgore and Mr. Dreemurr misdirection, or the Alphys barrier conversation.
And right next to those you have masterpiece gags/hints like the fractal joke/quantum physics book, Grillby timestop, or Toriel's kitchen, and the contrast/contradictions between the library books and the waterfall signs. And some were even removed, like the funeral rites book and Falling Down, which return to Flowey and the Amalgamates, and later Gerson's hammer! So good.
Edit: And don't get me started on all the cool details like Gerson calling forward to Sans' menu manipulation by asserting his dominion of the game rules to make himself impossible to kill. Gerson is such a good character. And also foreshadowed with Burguerpants later
Also like, I always thought the glow shards were weird and probably important in some way, as it’s the first item you can grab in the first Dark World, and it’s located in that mysterious wasteland area with all those Titan eye carvings. My biggest problem was that there just wasn’t enough information on the Glow Shards yet, so it’s hard to deduce much as of right now
Suziezilla is definitely a Chekhov's gun. Mark my words.
Here before this hits [big]
Crossing my fingers, a Man can dream
Update: It got [BIG]!!!
Congrats on over 1k likes :D u deserve it 🥳
on the idea of items in the house that could be forgotten or abandoned ,etc, and something struck me as odd, why does Kris have an old bird cage? did they use to have a pet, and if not where did they get it from?
The cage has been there since before we took control it seems so the idea that its full purpose was to contain the soul is a little odd.
Also If anything in the house could have an interesting effect if brought to a darkworld its the object that was shown to be able to restrain the Soul(imagine mid chapter 3 Kris just removes the soul throws it in the cage walks away and the rest of the Fun gang stumbles across it and are shocked to see "kris's" soul by itself.
“A mage leaving the party”
I would like to remind you
SUSIE KNOWS HEALING MAGIC
Thought I should also mention Asgore's flowers that are barely mentioned at all
I bet the piano will be important. maybe kris will play the piano at some point in the game? I mean we already know they're good at it thanks to the spamton sweepstakes, but they can't play it when they're under our control...
I think kris playing the piano will be part of the ending sequence. I'm dying to know what was the dream that inspired Toby so much to make 2 videogames out of
(he said the dream was gonna be deltarunes ending. Thinking about it too much will drive me insane)
The edge of the shadow, where reality and dream meet 🤔
Genuinely this is one of my favorite UT/DR videos. Keep up the good work!
Something to point out is that there is one instance checkoffs gun that toby doesn’t use.
That is a human absorbing a boss monster soul that’s never used despite being brought up in water fall and you can’t even reset and go get Toriel soul after learning that knowledge
That is true, however I will say that in Deltarune we seem to be getting more knowledge on the nature of Souls and how they work, so I am more inclined to believe that is setting up for Deltarune. A horrible thought to think about, but if Kris does absorb a Boss Monster Soul... Actually, no, I am not going to think about that for now.
Human souls and boss monster souls fusing is established in Waterfall because it’s critical worldbuilding to explain Chara and Asriel’s plan - to have Asriel absorb Chara’s and go beyond the barrier. That definitely gets paid off by the end of the game, even if you personally aren’t doing the fusing.
Basically all of the Waterfall tablets are there just to explain the worldbuilding that helps you understand Asriel’s story later.
@@lukergamerz4455 it specifically says “ but humans cannot absorb monster soul as they disappear immediately upon death. There is one exception tho a boss monster. And the soul of a boss monster can stay behind after death, if only for a few seconds allowing her for a human to absorb it. But this has never happened and now It never will. “.
There’s an entire paragraph dedicated to this part of completely ignoring the monster taking human soul parts
@@aresrivera9744 It is definitely framed from the perspective of a human doing the fusing, yes. I think it’s supposed to be layered - you *think* this is being told to you because it will be how you escape the Underground (killing Asgore and absorbing his lingering soul). But the *actual* purpose is for Chara and Asriel’s story. It’s still a payoff, just not the one that it seems like on the surface.
@@lukergamerz4455 but then it would just end up being like that puzzle in snowdin if it never came back.
You think it’s gonna come back, but it doesn’t .
13:14 I feel called out.
26:02 HoLy ShIt kRis kNIght conFiRmed⁉️ (the evidence is that they share 2 traits)
I mean, I believe it based on a bunch of other things. But agree to disagree I guess.
This is really good! I can't wait to see which ones you got right.
The whole final Queen fight in Chapter 2 is a Gun. The mech, the recruit mechanic, the creation, heck even the final giant baseball attack was foreshadowed in the Noelle cutscene.
Sometimes, the youtube algorithm does a good thing and shows me an interesting channel that's just gotten started. Video got me to think about things from an angle I hadn't considered before. Intrigued to see where you go from here 👍
The vivid description we get of the Roaring is a smoking Chekhov's gun and it is terrifying me for what is to come.
Surprised you didn’t mention the vessel as like the most obvious Chekhov’s gun
Im alwyas worried about "its like when your sister has bad stats in dragon blazers" line, like is someone going to be debilitated? And yo i never even thought of the debt being relevant, christ
The Sister thing is probably supposed to be Noelle, her stats are horrible (unless you do snowgrave in which that line is meaningless)
or hibting at Dess condition
The quality of this video is amazing. Subscribed.
Oh my god someone else who uses the double saying of “we’ll burn that bridge when we get to it”
Absolutely incredible
I find it interesting that on chapter 2, susie mentions the bunker and talks about it once ever in a scene that has a "cutscene"(as in, more elaborate than just the characters standing there and talking). Sure do wonder what's gonna come out of that one!
Mollystars is a great recommendation! I'd also like to say the Soph is a really underrated channel, she's super funny and has some interesting takes!
I always thought the reason they didn’t return the book was because of the line “the dragon is dressed immodestly” meaning they were embarrassed about it.
16:24 Supposed to be a gift for alsphis
I have to say, this was wonderful, but I am conflicted, of all the things, because this is how I learn Asriel 'likes' dragons
The Shelter is clearly a Chekov's gun
Very interesting topic! Keep it up! (Also very cool persona)
This is a great video you pointed a lot of stuff i haven't thought about very much