Can the Comic Book Industry Be Saved? with Wes from Thinking Critical [Podcast Episode 14]
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- čas přidán 23. 04. 2024
- Can the Western comic book direct market be saved, or is it beyond repair at this point? With Marvel and DC sales in the toilet, shops closing, and constant internet drama around creators and fans, is comics as we've known it even WORTH saving? We talk about Marvel's Ultimate line, DC's upcoming Scott Snyder line, the success of the Energon Universe, X-Men '97, and more.
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Peach Momoko's X-Men stuff feels like part of the old Manga-Verse continuity. I have no idea what it's SUPPOSED to be.
@marhawkman303-Don't worry neither do they 😹
Same...
I’m okay with that as the XMen are fricking all over the place. We need some unrelated weirdness rn to distract from the team’s current state. Probably shouldn’t be called “Ultimate X-Men” but I digress
The thing about Pretenders... we actually saw one in that one Michael Bay Transformers movie! that random woman who tried to get with Sam... and... turned out she was really a Decepticon!
Didn't she get ripped in half by Bumblebee?
If anyone was wondering, all of this was from the 2nd movie.
@@harlannguyen4048 yeah, pretty sure she got squished yeah.
I just listened to this on Spotify.
I’m listening to it again on CZcams so I can comment.
Wes is certainly very fair. I like listening to you both talking about comics.
As an artist, the comic book industry can be saved! We need people who arent making content for minorities but for the majority that have good characters and morals like the old days. Make stuff family oriented, stop pandering to the woke folks, and pushing your private personal feelings against others.
It will take time but with the right people it can be fixed
I'd say it is wrong to claim "Not for the minority". Rather we need people who are aware that minorities have no problem at all reading fun comics, so all you have to do is make them fun and it solves itself. The only ones who need "minority" focused comics, is bigots who think minorities are weirdos who do not behave like normal people.
A mechanism is needed for connecting like-minded artists, writers, old skool letterers. . .and yes (gasp!) editors :) Where can your art be seen?
oh this is great, my fav podcasters streaming together :D
I thought the same thing
Best crossover in years. I enjoyed the entire thing and didn’t have to buy thirty side books to understand what’s going on.
I Love the D/REZZED font and the background used on the font..
A: Yes.
Q: How?
A: Know your market, and made product your customer want, and made profit out of it.
They can only save themselves by hiring professionals.
But professionals cost money. You can pay activists in peanuts.
Yeah, by throwing the peanuts at them.
Unfortunately return to monke is not working well. Real monkeys might actually be more useful.
Short answer is no.
I am in Palo Alto right now never knew you lived in my neck of the woods. Been listening to you and Geeky for years…. Hilarious.
Great talk! I'm from the Philippines and I must say the popularity of mainstream western comics (marvel and dc) pales in comparison with manga, since manga is more accessible and easier to read.
I've recently started reading the Zeb Wells ASM run and I think nobody in Marvel truly likes the character of Spider-Man/Peter Parker. It's a shame since we are so close to the 1000th issue of SM. I wonder how they will turn the tide in their favor and win back dissapointed fans.
They've been wanting to replace Peter with Miles Morales for the past few years now. They don't really care about PP anymore, that's the impression I get. But few comic book fans like Miles, he's just a poor version of PP.
Yay! Wes! Good to see you on this channel as well.
Nice to see you talking with Wes. He’s my favorite CB channel out there. Especially since I’ve fallen out of favor with a lot of channels. Comic pop is the only other one and while I like Sal; he’s too in bed with the mainstream industry and has had some tismy takes recently. S
same here. i love how wes and co always end a comics aficionados with recommendations of books and laud a title when it improves.
You ain't lying fam!! Sal and Benny if you ask me. Reddit Comicbooks tried to make it seem like I was crazy when I asked what was up with him?
I've had a decent time reading comics for decades now. But importantly not US capeshit. But stuff from eg. Italy and France have been a pleasure to read and overall been good experiences. The Italian spaghetti-ish western Tex is a great contrast to superhero comics in many ways: They ship pretty thick books, a bit over a hundred pages, and most stories are self-contained oneshots set against a reference setting that sort of lives in an eternal stasis. Different stories are set in somewhat different periods of the characters' lives, but the general gist is the same and there's zero effort to maintain a coherent universe, nevermind build an interlocking multiverse.
As a result, the stories are really nice to read: Once you know the base setting, you don't need anything else, and the stories are long enough to have proper arcs to them, some span a couple volumes. It's just the polar opposite of how superhero comics tend to be done in more or less every way, and is the better for it. Been going since the 70s, too, and no sign of slowing down.
That's true, and highly respected. But some of us do make US capeshit in the traditional fashion. We've enjoyed lots of great indie superhero titles, from Femforce and Megaton Man in the 80s, to Shi and Cyberforce in the 90s, all the way down to the likes of Rising Stars, Noble Causes/Dynamo 5, Powers, Invincible, Jupiter's Legacy, Bomb Queen, The Boys, and so on. And I hope that we're adding to that fantastic legacy!
@@heroineburgh Yeah, it's less the superhero content itself, more the format of unrelated/loosely related standalones against a common backdrop that seems to work out well.
@@GarumOverdose Every single series I mentioned above has a coherent universe which works well. I also like The Freshmen (Seth Green/Hugh Sterbakov) although that one fell thru the cracks.
Young Rippa is doing the best he can.
When comics were really popular, say when Fantastic Four and Spider-Man had television shows made for Saturday mornings around 1967 or so, just how much money were the comics creators making? Were Jack Kirby, Stan Lee, Steve Ditko, John Buscema and the like rolling in money living in mansions? Or were they grinding employees living paycheck to paycheck?
They were getting paid a decent amount of money. But problems started when Marvel were selling toys and had their tv shows. They were not getting paid for that even if they invented the characters. So they thought they deserved more. Jack Kirby should have been a multi millionaire with all the characters he created. Stan Lee did okay, he was getting paid $1million per year just to be a figurehead in his later years.
Way cool that you got to talk with Wes, especially given that he's way out there in the Philippines! It's great when there are meetings of the minds and the CZcams channels cross over. If you feel comfortable doing it, you should participate in some of the live meetings at Comicons with the likes of Nerdrotic and Eric July!
Great video! Love to hear the two channels do a crossover
I can confirm, the X-men were great in the 90's.
I work as an artist for french publishers. Here they sale millions of comics/graphic novels. In the Angouleme festival we see kids seating on the floor reading comic books. When I see this I see hope. But, again, US market are different.
Cool, just found this, love it. Wes, you need to plug this one a little more as i nearly missed it.
I like the new 2024 Ultimate X-Men by Peach Monoko because the characters are likable the artwork is phenomenal even if it is very much a manga style in a comic medium.
Though I am skeptical if they don’t bring back the original team but I believe the two girls are acting as the Kitty Pryde or Jubilee of this new series.
Just an introduction into the world from a different point of view. (In this case a Japanese school girl coming to terms with mutants exist)
Hopefully they bring the true original X-Men back soon.
Wes needs a Clownfish bouncy avatar!
Given Manga, Mawha abd euro comics are all thriving the only logical awnser is yes.
The medium is fine its the content thats broken
Big ups Wes 😎👍
Also looking forward to the Solomon Kane comic despite what Razorfist says
How would an ultimate DC universe work, we already know all the different universes, like Earth 3 with the Crime Syndicate. Multiversity outlined nearly every universe in that guidebook. Or has all that been retconned?
The “comic book industry” can only be “saved” at this point by radically changing their business model.
Selling monthly 22-page periodicals for $6 at specialty shops for collectors (where most of the customers are coming in for Friday night Magic) when your target audience can go to Target (where they shop on a weekly basis with their mom) and get 200 pages of the next volume in their favorite manga series for $15, or spend $5 to read the entire library on Webtoon simply isn’t a viable business model.
great crossover!!!! leaving a comment, and a like and I am downloading this episode from iTunes right now!
I remember hearing that what would save comics would be a stack of cheap comics, but now hearing that it pays so low I'm not sure that would be the case.
A wise man once said, "Comics will break your heart."
Now this is a crossover!
Thanks!
Thank you!
The distributor with high markup sounds like Entertainment Earth.
The ultimate universe is the only thing I’m actively reading, Im mostly reading old stuff but maybe I should check out the energon series?
It could be saved but at this point? I don’t think even the big two wish to save themselves from the pit they’ve found themselves in. Lol
Marvel is tied to Disney, and Disney is embracing death... not sure about DC, but not looking good.
I don't think comics will ever die out completely -- trading cards haven't vanished entirely and they're just as irrelevant to most people as comic books are now! -- BUT Marvel and DC clearly aren't interested in prioritizing comics OR quality control on said publications.
Disney and Warner Bros have virtually direct control over Marvel and DC. The mother company executives clearly don't care about comics, either.
I don't expect comics to ever be as popular AGAIN in my lifetime as they were in the late 1980s and early 1990s. That's when they most recently peaked and WERE PROFITABLE. By mid-1990s, Marvel editorial was scattered and indifferent. The Quesada regime was very overrated and mostly terrible, too. There was far more even quality control at DC until Dan Didio took over as senior executive/main editor in the mid-2000s. DC was dead after the Didio era began. Don't kid yourselves...
Can’t escape from crossing fate!
The mainstream companies? No, they've lost their way and the tublerati are too many, you can't staff a Marvel or a DC without them at this point. It creates an opportunity where new companies can rise, and be very, very selective about who they hire.
Yes the comicbook industry can be saved
It is a dieing genre. Comic books are more niche than at any time is history.
I was never a comic book reader by my friend was. Up through the 90s I had a passing knowledge of all the major storylines.
Then comics took a hard left wing turn. I remember when they tried to recon captain America. After that interest in comics started to fade.
Sales dropped. Local meets stopped.
Now that movies with the most well known characters are over. Normal people have no interest in the secondary characters whose stories are unknown to them.
It is being saved. Back CG today.
There are some good things but currently still don't think comics can be saved.
I would say the comic book industry is doing well . When you consider the independent artist and writers out there who are creating excellent content . I think what you're asking is, can the beloved heroes from the past be saved now that they've fallen into the clutches of progressive hate? Unfortunately, the people who have their hands around these creative license now aren't able to create. They can only destroy . Its why they're filled with so much hate and they want to see you miserable by destroying things that you love period abandoned all ye move on to different characters and read comic books made by people who are trying to tell you a good story and trying to give you some great art period stop waiting for your Superman if you will to come in and save the x men or Spider-Man ,cause it just isn't gonna happen .
Even with Indie Comic success stories like Rippaverse and Shadowbinders, I still think the ACBI is cooked.
No no its not. Even if you somehow brought trust back to the fans. It would take a miracle to convince book stores to reduce the what may as well be "manga department" in every store.b
These morons forget that shelf space is EVERYTHING when it comes to book sales.
Go step into a barnes and noble and see how long the manga shelf space is in comparison
You think that will go away so easily? Manga gets releasedbeasily every 1-3 months for god knows how many titles at this point that all do one thing comics dont. BRING IN MONTHLY CUSTOMERS
Yeah it will take a LONG time to rebuild and return to old.
First as you said they will have to repair the trust that was broken.
Then the rebuilding can begin.
It won´t be back to ye good old days from day one, it will probably take YEARS (if not a decade or two) before they are at that level once more.
They will probably also have to go back to individual self contained stories again.
Ala no problem in making a story that runs over several issues, however take a page out of Manga´s book.
You don´t need 10 different series to know what is going on, read issue/vol 1 to 30 and you will get the complete story side stories and everything.
… a Great hit and probably a bunch of misses..but this is good Spider-Man issue 😊
Save the industry? I think it's possible, but:
1. Get rid of the activists.
2. Stop the checkbox hiring.
3. Give paying customers (the real fans) what they want.
4. Profit
#meritocracy
I used to attend SDCC back in the late 80s/early 90s. It was SO different. I went a few years back, it was mostly e-thots "promoting their brand" and Stans. Just sad...
I do think the current comics are worse. But over all the manga format is superior to even the most loved comics. Especially when it comes to entertainment vs cost.
I think the only thing that can save entertainment is adults.
The industry is filled with children in their 30s and 40s. Children who have no interest in families because "So much work". Children who put bare minimum into work because "I'm paid to be here". Children who will cry and whine about not liking what others do with their lives, even though it isn't their business.
All we need is a few bosses who are adults and can tell these people to behave properly. You don't insult customers. You don't act like an ass online. You don't treat people differently like there are tiers of value on humans.
What you do is work, and be polite. Even children can do this, so children in their 30s and 40s have no excuses except that they are brats.
i thought drawing artists did it to meet chicks. go outside with a pad and a pencil. see a girl and draw her/let her see = to meet.
but those the men/womyn into a room with little light, pad and pencil in hand, battle much over so little in coins.
perhaps it is time for the healthcare industry to hire artists to draw, paint, etc, for the clients of the HC industry.
mental health providers could use Art to convince their patients to 'stick around (at least until the next issue)'.
physical healthcare providers could use Art to show why a loss of legs means not a thing (unless 'my left foot' is their next move) to a two handed/one handed artist.
but to my knowledge, the artists do not seek such agreements from said healthcare providers. a new comic issue in the waiting room, for child DRs, makes sense as well as cents. but do comic artists not see the bigger picture due to their own lower sect of class upbringing? if they are not taught to THINK Big, the comics they draw will small in comparison to the writings of other science fiction authors.
to me, comics are science fiction. rom-com issues come and go, but the fiction of true believing is a science fiction upon humanity. LOL FD I be a T B too.
the imagination needs more content to Probe the Boundaries of idealism. Otherwise, the narrowmindedness of self Will command more narrow 'of (a number of (wag the Dog movie ref)) options'. In WtheD the director wants a 'wider set of options'. but Self Will not seek new moves without purpose for some prophet/profit.
bodies seek to fulfill their needs. empty the expression that Will fulfill the mind of the body. the cost of supplies be added on to the Opportunity Cost of being an artist.
No...
Sound, lights everything moves in waves. Highs and lows. Normally these are due to shifts in interest or over exposure. Like comic books dropped in the past cause they were trying to make everything the next "big event." This time it's this weird DEI stuff. It'll come back. Just like movies and games. Once this phase is outgrown it'll switch. It may not go directly to something great again but it'll switch. Even if marvel, DC, or whoever falls the rights will be sold and others will do the work. Assuming it gets that bad first. If not it'll switch and be on a high later. This is just a very ugly, stupid low
Yes! His name is Eric July.
Stick with artists, writers, creatives who have a love and passion for the craft and not people who want to make a name for themselves by crapping all over it😂
possible as long as they don't feature superheroes in them.
Nothing will save it
DC/Warner Bros. Discovery may not be as concerned about brand integrity for top characters like Batman and Superman as you might think, given that these characters will enter the public domain in ten years. DC needs a replacement for Superman by 1/1/2034. Batman by 1/1/2035. Wonder Woman by 1/1/2037.
And that is why Marvel fixated on Miles - they own him for sure, whereas Spiderman they don't completely own.
Should it be saved? Only Marvel and DC benefit, the rest is on their own... they constantly need donations just to publicize their work...
No. Not unless you fire everybody and get new talented writers who love and respect the characters. The industry is full of ideological subversives whose only job is to put out propaganda.
Gonna go back to being on Camera. Can't stand looking at 1 picture all the time.
Ultimate Spider-Man is snow globe shaking multiverse garbage. Fans are gonna abandon it once the marriage draw wears off.
Yeah, back in the 90s during the speculater period I remember not being able to wait till the bottom fell out and all the normie idiots that thought they would get rich buying multiple copys of Spawn an such would just go away and give us real fans back our hobby. And here we are again. It's coming and it can't come fast enough for me.
There needs to be a hard reset of pop culture to completely cleanse the universe of the woke taint.
I would say Conan and Spider-Man are the new hot in comics with building good will
Here's how to do it:
1) Fire everyone in the comics industry with a nose ring, hair dye, pronouns in their bio, or who spends more than five minutes a day on Twitter.
2) Never hire any of these people again.
3) All fixed!
Marvel and DC are screwed. Others will be ok
There is no chance that the Comic Book Industry can be saved until all the woke agenda-driven talentless hacks that currently permeate it are removed.
The normies who cosplay as Harley Quinn, and take selfies with A large color print are the same people who watch 'Hanna Montana', grew up with 'Twilight', payed money to go see 'Barbie', and have the 'Air Buddie' movies in their DVD collection. Also, you never see news journalist get stabbed in the back the same way that Ed Piskor did from 'the whisper network' unless they publicly support Trump. I'm never working for mainstream comics. I'll make my own comics.
Who wants to save it? The continuity in the big two has been decimated. There's no coming back from all the gay shit they've done. Comics are dead.
57:45: myop (on why people get into the comic industry) they possess both the Belief (true believers) and sum form of talent. ink, colouring/coloring, story, etc
and they feel the need (not for speed) to get their 'demons out' (fletch Lives' movie line).
FD: one of my cousins could draw so well, but never had the want to put himself out there - let alone draw for others. he was not into drawing for others. if he could, he would never draw for others - seems a waste of a talent to me.
last i Heard (not an amber alert but be aware she still exists and is dangerous, even with out make up) he was on some disability cheque system.
but his hands can still draw, maybe not as good as wyatt earp in a shout out - but draw as well as Doc H.