Comics Broke Them!
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- čas přidán 10. 06. 2023
- Comics will break your heart, kid. Comic book pros are lamenting the state of the comic book industry with the hashtag #ComicsBrokeMe on Twitter. The thing is, this isn't a recent development. Mainstream comics have been an awful way for people to make a living for a long time now. And anybody can choose to leave comics whenever they want. You don't HAVE to be miserable, depressed and broke.
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#ComicBooks #Marvel #DCComics #Comics #ImageComics - Krátké a kreslené filmy
"I'm brown and Queer" boo hoo... get over your victimhood. The entitlement is unbelievable.
Their whole rants about themselves are just them trying to one up each other in the Opression Olympics.
And it never hits them that nobody, absolutely nobody buys ie Pays their hard earned money for "Brown and Queer" Comic Stories. It's a niche of a niche of a niche.
More like "Get off the cross, we need the wood."
What in God's name is queer? Are they afraid of just saying they are gay or trans?
@@iratepirate3896 Ask the gays.
“If you don't like my politics, don't buy my book” -Kelly Sue
I was just about to comment something about that. You beat me to it. I couldn't even remember her name
@@Redneck_Hero I don't remember her name either, I only remember that message.
Surprised her name isn't Mary.
Morgan Freeman - "And so they didn't."
Smelly Doo
they destroyed the industry, you lose the right to complain when you cause the problem
I was a teen in the 90’s and was always told by the school system to do what you love. I started down a path to do something creative, realized there was no money in it and now teach my kids, make money and do what you love on the side.
Otherwise the thing you love becomes something you hate and you still have no money.
Yeah, I was kind of precocious and was always told to follow my heart because I was smart enough to be able to do whatever I wanted.
They just didn't tell me how crowded the "sex, drugs and rock-and-roll" field would be!
Only trustfund babies& grandbabies have the luxury of doing what they love tbh. Make money first and have hobbies. If you get good enough for your hobbies to make money then you are lucky or blessed depending on your beliefs ,but the real world is well REAL. It's why marxists are utopian blowhards. You need the currency of the realm to live.
Yeah that's what my teachers told me but my neighbor told me don't listen to dirty hippies be the most cutthroat business type you can be and you'll never starve he wasn't wrong.
Yeah... I make children's theater and I love it a lot.
But there's no money in it. So I also work full-time in an escape room as an instructor and book keeper. And my Escape Room salary legit pays for the children's theater. Not only do i own no money on the children's theater, I spend money on it so... It's really better to look at it as my fancy expensive hobby. Even though that is where my true passion is and I put everything into lol.
"Doing what you love" just doesn't pay.
We have been lied to our entire lives, and people are waking up to it.
Everyone thinks they'll be a celebrity, or some successful captain of industry, and they end up cleaning toilets. Hard work is for suckers.
Worked my ass off for over 30 years and ended up homeless. My life improved when I gave up and saved my effort for when I needed it.
As for comics, movies, and music? It's all dead.
Time to move on, folks.
They told us not to buy their books if we didn't like their politics, so we didn't. I couldn't care less what happens to them or the industry anymore
The industry died long ago. These are just worms on the corpse.
Yep back when they thought this ride would last forever. Nothing is permanent.
@@mywifesboyfriend5558 When was the last good time that the industry was still alive? Up until which year is it worth it to buy old western comics? And do you have a series you'd recommend?
For a whole decade they thumbed their noses at comic fans as they corrupted the establishment characters and brought low the industry, they have no sympathy from me because they are the ones who caused this Dark Age of comics.
Yeah the people running the industry. Just did this to themselves. People hate new characters, says insane comic pro who believes that to be the truth due to new characters not becoming popular overnight.
Fans hate diversity and female characters. So why do people love female characters from manga, why do people love the wide range of stories, historical, super heroes, historical and more from manga? Why do people love the wide range of personalities characters have in manga? We are going back to basics, only to show they lie to their fans and are just doing the same things they always do. Screwing over their own creators in terms of pay, comic book shops. Their failures with digital comics. They have been just gaslighting and demonizing people for years. Who want to give them their money, if they would at the very least keep true to the characters and try to tell a good story. Driving them away as more and more are just tired of talking to a brick wall. You can say what you want a 1000 times and they will still demonize you and gaslight you. Manga in general, at this point is just cheaper and odds are better in terms of quality. Even if you do find something awful, at least it most likely it own series and not destroying years of hard work build up by other better creators before them.
Clap 👏 well said
The free unlimited money was supposed to last forever!
as by design. intentional
The idealists ruined the industry by bringing their politics with them and no one with money cared. They pushed as hard as they can and no one cared. They screamed at you and called you names and no one cared. It’s always the radicals who put ideology and politics before entertainment and the CUSTOMER (not consuuuuuumer) acted accordingly.
They deserve it.
It's selfish and shameful of these comics losers to exploit someone's death for their personal gain. Vile.
Vile, indeed. Also typical.
And for that, they should go see the Old Scratch ASAP.
Wouldnt doubt they talked shit about him for every day he lived for working so hard. Just happens they can use his death to virtue signal, try to get something they want, or just plain farm some pity points.
they are all narcissists, without exceptions.
they do not see each other as friends or even colleagues, they see each others as opportunities for social jockeying.
They intentionally destroyed comics and boasted about driving away customers. They deserve far worse. Far worse.
Statements like "If you don't like my politics, then don't buy my book” from the likes of Kelly Sue De-Connick mean people WON'T BUY YOUR BOOK. Comics, movies & tv shows are entirely different things. Going into comics with the idea of getting picked up for a movie & tv show rarely ever happens. If you're going to do comics, do it because you want to, because you like comics. Not get rich quick.
*Geeky stays with Kneon during money problems caused by comics career at the time*
Gotta get yourself a lady like Geeky
Yeah, but where do we find them? There's sooo many of the exact opposite about. :P
Needle in the haystack situation honestly
There aren't any. Women aren't women anymore and haven't been for a LONG, LOOOOONG time.
We need women like the Blade Runner variety.
And yet losers from a certain subreddit will call them losers for being fired from Disney.
Yeah!
I've been a professional chef for 20 years and I can relate to the frustration of listening to young commie chefs (trainees fresh out of culinary school) and junior sous chefs (basically entry level prep cooks) constantly complaining about how unfair it is that I get a much better wage, have better benefits and a work schedule that allows me to actually have a personal life outside of the kitchen than they do.
They don't understand that I earned the right to have those things because I sacrificed and worked my ass off doing all the shit jobs that no one else wanted to do (like working late nights on weekends) for 15 years so that I could develop my craft learn everything that I possibly could and get myself into a position where I could walk into a job interview ask for $80.000/y and have the resume to back up my salary requests.
They want all the benefits, with none of the hard work and dedication. It's why so many game companies now churn out turds now.
That sounds like the kind of story that would go well about 4 inches from their face, top volume. With spittle. Good on ya anyway.
Tbh food work is slavery , I also work in fine dinning but I'll be going to barber college soon because there's no money in that industry.
@@Trollificusv2
I used to get mad at them, now I just let the management take them in the office and cut them down to size for me.
The ones who continue to complain are usually encouraged to give their notice and leave unless they'd rather be fired.
@@MaverickhunterXZero
Its not just that, its the fact that they think they know more than anyone else in the room despite being completely wet behind the ears.
On our senior team alone there's just over 250 years of total combined experience (double that if you include everyone else who isn't brand new in the industry), but so many of them simply refuse to listen to anything we have to say because they think that being book smart is the same thing as having practical knowledge earned through experience.
Comic book industry: "If you don’t like our politics, don’t buy our books!"
Customers: "Okay!"
Sales: 📉⬇
Comic book industry: makes surprised Pikachu face
the industry is going back to the 90s but worse because the big screen wont save them
You forget the CB Industry calling their audience and customers who didn't buy their useless trash - bigots, misogynists, ista-phobes and other buzzwords.
Comic books were the original "Bud Light"...
Don't act like this is such a shock, Comic book industry. ):
I didn’t like their politics, so I didn’t buy their books.
Comics are in a sad state. But the industry put itself in this state.
Go woke, go broke.
Yep and the industry did that by supporting the woke parasites the lead them down the path of self destruction.
Comics books died in the 90s and Toby Mcgwire & Robert Downey Jr putting on their respective suits allowed the IPs, keyword, IPs survive in other mediums but not in comic form.
@@bryana.escaleralopez By that extension the comics survived, but grew and it was only in the more recent years they have died out again due to hiring activists and parasites who do not know jack or sh*t about comics.
Comics is what made the medium what it would be and the extension into other areas of entertainment all started with an origin for without the comics then there wouldn't have been an MCU.
@@JustTooDamnHonest Comics still died in the 90s. People were buying them as collectibles, not to read them... The industry is nowhere near Manga or Manwha sadly.
"Not every little girl gets to do what they want. The world could not support that many ballerinas." - Mad Men
Crowd funding came along and proved that comics CAN make money! All that was necessary was removing the corporate structure that was in place.
Agree these corporations have been screwing people over for decades now, it good that others alternatives are forming.
yeah the corporate culture will kill creative work faster than anything else.
Corporate culture killed Ben 10. Back when Man of Action had more control over the original series, it was lightning in a bottle. Alien Force was the last series before the executives thought that Ben acting like a dipshit would appeal to kids.
They told us "this isn't for you"
Now they are shocked the money is gone.
I hear their tragical whining and I think "Now this is _really_ not for me."
You get what you deserve comic industry.
The weirdos who invaded it ruined it but I also think American comics are too super hero centric. Manga has a wide breadth of genres that make even bland subjects entertaining
@@teneleven2818 ikr? & I bet you they will judge my collection, my waifu collection & my backlogs & thinks it's degeneracy while some of my collection, my waifu collection & my backlogs of physical media of what I love is degeneracy & some are not degeneracy
@@eaglelord9898 that giant sentence was rather hard to follow. Just saying 🤷♂️
@@teneleven2818 you have no idea how true that is.
@@eaglelord9898 They always think that. I remember that someone called a guy who loves anime a "loner who probably jacks off to body pillows." The "loner" in question didn't even own a single body pillow.
I am a Tax preparer who owns their own shop. I make $137,000 working remote 5 months of the year now. I do my passion projects on the side (I write books, sculpt and miniature paint). That how you do this.
With today generation, bad words = abuse.
Even a fair criticism considered as abuse.
Verbal abuse is a thing... Just that debating, explaining a point, and criticism doesn't count.
I was worried the SJWs were gonna resort to claiming that. 😮💨
Hell, inadequate praise is considered as abuse!
Add to the liset anything that they dont like = Hate speech (specially when they cant even define what that hate speech even means)
No wonder they hate Eric July.
They about to hate him a lot more tomorrow
Well, because he can't be controlled by the establishment.
They hate Rippa, but they lack understanding of the industry they've entered, in the first place.
They could've done this one simple thing, ask a veteran of the industry. Ask any of them. And they would've found out that it's not something you'd do to be wealthy.
@@pplebite8844 Unless you have the confidence and business experience that Rippa has.
If they hate him so much then the best way to beat him is to do better in the industry that's what I would have done
Even in the best days, only a select few of comic professionals made great bank. For many years now, mainstream comics have been an ultra risk proposition. Only those with entitlement on their minds would ever expect to be 'owed' a good salary any more.
adlong as the word is "salary" it always gonna be bad, only creater own anything can actually give the artist the big money.
It's a failure on their parents part, should've taught them from the start "you're entitled to nothing, you work for everything you get"
Comics have been so repetitive and inconsistent for years. Manga is the opposite.
Cómics? No no no. WOKENESS corrupting the comic book industry is what broke them. And they’ll never admit it.
They'll never admit to it, they need to be fired and replaced. Once that happens we can start to heal
Get woke, go broke.
They were the cheap labor brought in to replace the expensive talent that needed to be gotten rid of
Wokeness is just the cherry on top of the shit Sunday… If anything it was just an excuse, a shield to let them blow steam and blame others for the industry’s mismanagement.
Not just comics, it is also movies, TV shows and computer games. Almost everything touched by woke goes broke. The exception even proves the rule. Hogwarts Legacy is a woke game but the wokesters tried to cancel it so people bought the game in droves. Their attempted boycott turned into a buycott.
I don't feel sorry for them. I've crowdfunded my own comics for a decade and have made a great living.
Because you're giving your customers what they want.👍
@@colinewen8536 YES. The customer is king. I'm always hosting surveys and polls asking for customer input for future publications.
@@ShadeDraws The customer is king until they're woke then it's off to the gallows while the other kings watch
Yeah. Pressing X
@@ShadeDrawsSmart man!
Geeky: "We've been married for over 20 years"
Kneon: "WHAAAAAAAAAT"
Comedy gold.
Decades from now:
Kneon: "Who are you woman?"
Geeky: "I'm your wife."
Kneon: "WHAAAAAAAT?!!"
I had that moment when i remet a friend i haven't seen since highschool... 10 years ago.
I don’t remember who it was, but I recall hearing a comic artist at one point say something along the lines of “They screwed over Jack Kirby. Why would I think they’d treat me any better?”
Exactly! It's an overused word but Jack Kirby was the very definition of a visionary genius. And he got screwed so many different ways. So what does that tell us? He didn't get health insurance until he went to work for an animation studio near the end of his career. All the while fighting Marvel for his artwork back. Great.
Yeah I remember a comment from one of these same vids talking about the industry, it said it was karma for mistreating the greats like Kirby. I agree with the sentiment
I think zookeepers have it much worse. I'm not a zookeeper, but my brother used to be. He quit to work in a pet store. Zookeepers need a ton of education and training to get the job, work weekends and holidays, do dangerous tasks, and on top of all that, they have to put up with idiots. They spend every day knowing that if some dumb tourist decides it would be hilarious to get inside an enclosure, taunt an animal, or something else stupid, an animal they love, who is simply doing what wild animals naturally do, could be put down. And they get paid jackshit.
Zoos shouldn't exist anyway.
@@mywifesboyfriend5558 A lot of zoos put up conservation programs for endangered species. Not all zoos are bad. Some of them brought back animals from near extinction.
They also don't get paid very well if I recall. I guess it would depend on the zoo or facility you're working at though.
I am a zookeeper in Chicago and I regularly feed the hippos day old sausages so they have a taste of their home. I put strings on the sausages and swing them in wide circles around the hippos. They get so mad at me they scream and bang against the enclosure. It’s become an obsessive ritual of sorts. Sometimes the hippos try to break out of their cages but I just keep swinging those sausages in wide arcs around their heads. My boss nor my coworkers know that I do this.
And yet these people vehemently defended the industry again and again and again and held it up on a pedestal...
They averaged in the money from manga sales to prove to the evil CGers that 'Comics are doing better than ever.". Yet another delusion that has not survived contact with reality.
Sheesh! As if they were ever going to see one penny from those manga sales.
The real goal for them was to exclude and harass others.
But when you've been poor long enough, harassing others won't cut it. You'll start to wish for more than to be evil.
This also applies to writing novels. I have a day job for bills etc, but I also write books. I don't expect to make a full time living from them. I like benefits and knowing I'm getting a paycheck. The money from book sales goes back into the next one.
Sounds rewarding. And sane. Good on ya.
comics didn't break them, they broke comics. turning it into a petty club of selfish people, only using comics as a stepping stone for hollywood. no love & no passion for the artform
EVERYTHING is seen as a stepping stone for celebrity now.
It's funny and sad at the same time.
@My Wife's Boyfriend and when you ask the actual celebrity writers... they did it for the paycheck, not the fame.
DBZ... Toriyama-sama agreed to write it because his editor told him how much sales were anticipated if he wrote it. Akira Toriyama took the time to do it right and didn't rush his work... and made one of the most popular mangas of all time. But he did it not as a "labor of love".... he did it for the money. His labor of love work was never that popular. Part of what makes DBZ different... is that Toriyama-sama likes comedy as the main plot device. All the drama like having Frieza blow up planets... and then you have a prat fall because humor. It's what gave DBZ that spark of life.... it's creator wasn't actually into the dark and gritty themes he was playing with. Android saga got really funky because there are actually 4 stages of creative work... and the "big bad" got changed(do to editorial suggestions on how to make it better) each time, and the story wrapped around the plot twists that were involved. the end result is a wild ride with crazy plot twists, but it was done by a creator who did it out of a desire to make a good product... not a work of art.
Stan the Man, Rob Liefeld? money, they got in when the market was easy and had little competition.
I do not work in comics but from 2006 to 2009, I was working 70 hours a week as a programmer, but I did what I had to do to support my family. I went 45 days in a row for 16 hr days, but all that hard work paid off and I was able to find a better job at another company and a far better work life balance. I did not complain, I knew what I was doing, and my family supported me as it meant that my wife did not have to work and could stay home and home school our kids. Was it ideal, no, but you do what you need to do.
Today I learned comic book writers had it worse than GWOT combat vets.
Good for you brother, I had similar stories.
Homeschool Chad
Admirable.
Also In IT, never had a job less than 70 hours a week. In 4 years I've seen 3 people end up in hospital from burn out or developing life long auto immune problems from the stress. IT needs to unionize.
Before embarking on a career... investigating your desired occupation's projected livable income is kinda important. When mediocrity is the industry standard there is always someone willing to work cut-rate. In an industry orbited by "mean girls" you will always be on your guard. In an industry where merit is not the norm... may God have mercy on your soul....
You tell them cuz
It's not just that, also investigate what the expected trajectory of your career is--don't go thinking that you're going to get the pay and perks of somebody who has a relevant degree from a school with a good reputation in that field & 10+ years experience when what you are bringing to the table is a diploma from Not A Diploma Mill We Promise U with the ink not yet dry & in Vagueness.
It's not just the comics industry. I busted my butt working in healthcare for 6 years. Ruined my knee with all the walking. Applied for every promotion and applied for lateral transfers and got nothing. Reached out to HR several times, too, and got no response. For the longest time, I thought it was me. Maybe I didn't have the right credentials or needed more schooling.... I decided I was worth more than this, got an advanced degree, and quit. Life wasn't bubblegum and sunshine afterwards and I still struggled with my mental and physical health, and still had trouble finding a new job. I'm back in healthcare, but for a different company in a different department. I'm not even trying for promotions or transfers anymore. I'm just throwing as much money as I can at my debts and looking forward to retirement.
cant feel sorry for them even as an poor artist myself because they lie and attack people who dont politically align to them. I'm willing to bet all of them attacked Eric July
i started a new job recently. kitchen porter.
the hours sucked, the boss was an asshole & one 'person' i had to work with was a hateful bitter piece of garbage. my solution? i left after 3 weeks. i got another job.
this entitlement of expecting the world to accommodate is both laughable & horrific.
The way grandpa made it in art, large design firm, an old school style team AND grandmother invested very, very intelligently, as was normal to that class of their times.
Back in the 80's the ultimate test for a young heavy metal band out on the road was to tour as support for motorhead because their fans were famous for not being shy when it came to bad opening acts, they would throw everything they could get their hands on (including cups of literal piss) at the stage if the opening band played poorly.
When they took The Plasmatics and Girlschool out on the road with them in the early 80's the initial reaction of the fans was so overwhelmingly negative that Wendy O" Williams literally begged lemmy to let them drop out of the tour, lemmy refused point blank and insisted that they stick with it.
It took something like three weeks for the crowds to warm up to them but once that happened they got a reaction from the crowd that was on par with or better than the headliners, after that tour lemmy threw a big party in their honour and as a reward for them taking his advice and sticking with it by agreeing to produce music for them.
Lemmy sounds awesome
Cups of WHAT?
I can understand toughing something out, but... Shoot, whatever happened to being nice to the waiter?
@@birddale5523
He was a living legend and is sadly missed today.
Great story that contains a real lesson. Something about cups of piss I think.
Maybe the cry-bullies can get together and write a comic book about the broken industry.
I'd love to see the mental gymnastics the villans have to go through to make themselves look like the heros.
The rates have stagnated because comics sell a fraction of what they used to. It's been infected by these broken, mental illness weirdos and chased the regular people out.
I'm glad you both exist. I've done call center work for well almost 10 years in various positions, pay isn't great but it puts food on the table and I can afford things, and I have health insurance that has helped me. I doodle and wanted to perhaps do a graphic novel or video game as a profession back in the day, and I was hard on myself thinking that I had wasted my life not doing enough to make it full time in the entertainment industry in some form, but 10 years later as I have watched everything burn I am glad I stuck with my career path even if it isn't most glamorous nor technical skilled job area out there (more patience and people skills), and hearing what both Neon and Geeky went through along with the struggles of the mainstream comicbook artists helps to ease that I kinda was on the right path all along lol. Though I may never end up putting anything out anytime soon that could make people turn their heads in awe, thank you for putting this video out you two. Keep doing good work, and please bring the podcast back as I never knew there was one, and I always need something to listen to while doing work.
Never feel sorry for making the choice to pay your own bills and have some kind of work/life balance. All that "might have been" delusion is what's making these knuckleheads in the video so miserable.
@@Trollificusv2 Thank you :) I had the "grass is greener" effect for a bit, but I am glad I got a whiff of the manure that was on the other side which helped to keep me grounded. I still admire people like Clownfish who have been able to balance their work/life in a way that has made them very successful, and I too hope to find such a good balance. But being able to come home with food and a bed waiting is still good in my eyes :)
As a girl who makes her own comics, and back in 2017 when I drew mostly for franchises, even with 100k back then on my old channel, I made pennies on youtube, not a lot at all.
I love making comics yes, and I still do for my own series that I'm working on
but, it's not just comics, since I know comics no matter what, whether in a job or in real life trying to push original comics, it is a LOAD of work, for nothing half the time.
that's why I learned Blender and 3D modeling, and learning toon boom because it is true that animation does better than comics, and games do a lot better then the both sometimes.
that's why I'm learning game deving
if I learned anything in my life.
is the medium CONSTANTLY changes.....I can't work since I'm on disability and it's hard to work a regular job, so for the most part, on this channel I make my own series, I make my own franchise because I got nothing else anyway and I do still live a normal life and I still can pay bills (thank god...), and I do have employees who work on the character's for VA and just hired a musician for their OST and such
sadly even that get's low views.
it's hard to work against the system yes.
but I learned comics and fun little animations were king at one point, especially on youtube, sadly the medium changed to mostly just animation, then it changed to literal video games and trying to push out a story that way. I've constantly been trying to keep up.
sadly I didn't have alot growing up and learning blender back then on an old Dell laptop would've killed my dell laptop lol.
so I had nothing, I had to make due with what I had.
sadly there was a time where I was like "I'm going to work at CN and make a living there and be so happy to be the cartoonist I've always wanted to be!" which is why I always tried to make characters in their own original style so I could learn different styles in case that happened.
sadly reality hits, you realize you're either too poor to go to that place, or you're not who they're looking for, they don't want you and you 100% understand you're replacable....that you're just an object to use for awhile. until someone else comes in and can do it better.
at least like this, I can work at my own pace yes, I can also play video games on my other channel whenever I want, I can make 3D characters to sell, I can at least try to get commissions
again it's a hard medium art in general ....well...there's a reason why it's called "Starving artist" because as much of a talent we can have, and how well we can do it....sadly....it's never enough....and or pushed around or pushed aside unlike that 1% and we all wish we can get there
even I know my own game can totally flop. And when that happens and really for sure if nothing happens. Yeah that's even when I'll say I'm done. I'll just make things to make things but I won't waste my time making my own if no one cares for it.
sadly there is as you said, a point in your life where you realize it's not even worth it.
and I don't even have to work, I get paid by the government due SSI/SSDI every month and such.
The most I can say is that I tried....but then people bitch and complain that there's no good t.v show anymore, there's no good cartoons anymore, there's no good anything anymore
again why do you think? Artists like me who don't give two shits about woke agenda and just want to push out a story; truly and honestly cause I could care less for the money or fame I just want people to like my creations the end. make a lil fanbase
but problem is not everyone is willing to try or look at something new or it just happens maybe it's not right for them and they don't like it (which is understandable)
but between paying for services, these days, paying to be on websites and probably more to come
paying bills, trying to pay rent, some people have to have 3-4 jobs just to pay rent and have food
sadly the last thing on their mind is, let's pay this indie creator to help them or something of the sort
and then we know we have to leave that it's not worth it
and then people are stuck with shit
so it's a vicious circle
creators who have talent get pushed aside, people get shit because they don't support or can't support indie creators, indie creators give up and do whatever they want instead leaving behind what would be a good franchise, people complain why leave a good franchise behind years later asking said person if they stumble upon it, creator moved on doesn't care for it anymore and everyone is unhappy.
the end.
yes discoverebility for small creators is the biggest problem sadly everytime pple come together it gets perverted webtoons, youtube ect.
I remember 3 years ago most of these comic pros were going around saying "we don't even work for the consumer, we work for the comic book shops." That was their justification for writing tripe that only they wanted to read. Well, looks like they were working for us after all, huh? If only someone would have told them. Lol.
I know it's been beaten to a dead horse and I know Clownfish TV hates the word, but when you go woke, you go broke.
Glad to see that Geeky is back, but her voice sounds like her jaw is still healing. Take it slow and steady, Geeky. Dental surgery can take a while to fully heal.
Dan Watters Loki comic is doing so well, it's already doing a re-print to keep up with demand. It's not the brand, it's the writers.
It is meritocracy not being the primary way for people to get ahead. Sure the industry would probably have some stinkers, But I imagine even with the cutbacks. We'll be staring at a much different industry if people only got writing and drawing positions because they were the best candidate for the job
The mainstream comics are more concerned with a diverse group of writers than the talent they have to offer.
All this is leading to the Iron age for comics, independent artists are doing well filling in the gap of quality that Marvel and DC have left open.
more like rust age
American comic's success is based more on the company name than the author, compare to japanese manga where most readers know the authorr and probably have no idea who the publishers are. This makes manga authors more valuable. It also helps that they make new IP and not just get handed successful IPs that they half ass cause the franchise practically pays for itself
And those "valuable" manga creators STILL work themselves almost to death!
@Trollificus and they get paid for it. They're both the author and artist.
@@Trollificusv2 It's extremely competitive over there. Over 10,000 artists in Japan publishes manga every year and most of them are "fighting tooth and nail" to get that average readers' attention for few minutes.
Even the artist makes a hit title, but it's the ultimately the sale of their Manga books and licenses year after year that puts food their table.
My mother has Fibromyalgia. It's a terrible, TERRIBLE thing. I feel for you.
Fibromyalgia is often caused / exacerbated by electrolyte imbalance due to SSRI use.
I don't feel sorry for these people at all.
Me neither, because when it is us in the same situation, they get happy.
Me either! They deserve to get backlash.
They can all burn in comic book hell.
they're your enemy. Watching their empire crumble should only bring you satisfaction.
Not like we tried to warn them or anything. Also CG creators offer way better pay for writers and artists. Hell just striking out on your own pays better. But no, don't do that because that would give the chuds a win. The mainstream comics industry is effectively an abusive relationship where everyone is gaslighting each other to stay.
Half true. The problem is also that most creators today only know how to do deconstruction and race/gender/sex changes. They don't know how to actually create or make their own universes.
And they ask themselves why the Iron Age is growing.
Also, they're trash artists who only got their jobs through nepotism or networking rather than talent.
@@mikecampos1193 what is iron age, is it a comic?
@@maximo914 It's a name for the new age we are now in. Like how comics have the Golden Age, Silver, Bronze, Dark, etc. So to shift the cultural landscape Razorfist came up with the name the Iron Age. Basically this new age of creators going out and doing it on their own. The name for the current independent movement that is happening all across entertainment.
Would have to imagine things might be a bit better in the comic industry if the current people in the industry, oh I don't know....DIDN'T ACTIVELY DRIVE AWAY THE PAYING CUSTOMER BASE!!!
Why do I get the feeling kneon felt a bit of catharsis from the comics pros admitting the truth...?
Please with the thumbnail. I am constantly in fear for my life every time I see Not-Starfire-Ebony-Dark'ness-Raven-Dementia-Way in her bull form about to charge and gore me to death.
I think the only comic creator who made bank from Hollywood was Robert Kirkman and that was because The Walking Dead and Invincible are creator-owned. Mark Millar may have also done well because Wanted, Kick-Ass, and Kingsman are all owned by him.
The ENTIRE time, back in the 90s, that I was freelancing at Marvel, I worked other jobs doing medical transcription and whatever work I could do at home. I was told they could no longer use me and was laid off from my paying job on the same freakin' day. I didn't whine, I didn't throw a fit, I stopped at every temp agency I could see on my way home, so I could cry. That was on a Friday. I started a temp job doing layout stuff for a local insurance company. I liked money and feeding my kids, but it was a struggle. That's what you do, that's life. I never thought I was going to make a living in comics. I stayed up late nights and had no life because I liked it and did everything I could to keep doing it. Comics has ALWAYS been this way. Unless you were one of the lucky few, you were not making a lot of money.
No kneon, they ARE trapped. These people left in the big publishers are mostly the ones who failed at independant publishing or starting their own companies. The big publishers are the only way they get work and even then its either because they work for dirt cheap or because they want to tick a diversity checkbox. If they didn't work for the big publishers they wouldn't be able to work in comics at all.
It's a gilded cage, a pair of golden handcuffs. They want to be artists and are too mentally and physically ill for normal jobs. They can't network because they've destroyed every single relationship with anyone who could've gotten them better connections. They don't have the discipline to self-publish. They love their status as diversity hires, so they won't allow themselves to be fired either.
Congratulations on working for a brand-name company! It'll be the only company you'll ever work for. Forever... 😈
These are the ones that cannot sustain an independent career. They were counting on somehow getting a Hollywood deal after they made enough dog shit.
I think he meant that they don't have to work in a dying industry yet choose to and complain
YAY A fortry minute Clownfish TV episode about the state of comics? Sign me up!
They should make a documentary about how comic books ended up the way they are now.
"Abuse" always means "They wanted me to do a normal job and I'm so incompetent that I can't even do that."
Very clear observation there, "Not making comics as a main income." So when we're talking about people in the industry, we're talking about people riding on a failing business model and expecting that support them. ...Maybe the question should be why so many stupid people keep defaulting to comics as their career choice? Because it's easy? (It's not! so.. why?)
Dude, these people are of a cohort that thinks the world changes to match their wishes. The same kind of people who expect house-buying wage and mental health days from a minimum wage job where they can be replaced in 10 minutes. Just unreal.
@@Trollificusv2 well... maybe.. Edit: But if that really is the case, then an entire generation has been screwed up even worse than I first thought.
That description of Artist Alley made me think of going to an animal shelter.
20 years? Way to to go guys!
Comics don’t make people wealthy? Say it isn’t so! But seriously, as far back as I can remember… artists became comic book artists because they LIKED to draw, the admired superheroes, and the fantastical stories that were told. I don’t recall anyone saying: “I’m going to be a comic book artists so I can be RICH!”
The problem is they forgot that. No, not the part about comics making people money, that first and foremost… YOU HAVE TO ACTUALLY LIKE COMICS! Anyone who joined with the mentality of “This is going to be a Netflix Original!” OR “I wanna make the next (insert hero/villain here)” was and still is super delusional.
Anyone could see the writing in the wall as soon as they released the line up of all the superhuman movies they had planned. When people saw the projected release dates, we all collectively groaned aloud and silently (or publicly) stated what they were interested in seeing.
And now that Phase whatever proved to be a massive failure, they need to STOP with the superhuman movies. They aren’t trying to tell stories or introduce interesting characters… nah… they wanna bring in those insane dollar signs.
Quite frankly, once the original actors retired… they should have said: “Okay, that movie was a good send off to this franchise… let’s start anew…”
What does this all boil down to? Greed. Not a love for the genre. Just plain greed. (You think they would take notes on the gaming industry, Disney, Pixar, Star Wars, all of the sure hit franchises that have been turning out crap year after year)
STOP THE INSANITY HOLLYWOOD
Actually, I remember some little dramas based on distribution of profits. In some of them the revered Stan Lee was not the good guy. The difference between then and now being that BACK THEN THERE WERE PROFITS TO DISTRIBUTE. Jebus.
The comic companies have given up on telling stories. Which is why manga is exploding in the west. every issue is about the characters and the story. Meanwhile comics is about politics and the message that gets repeated 9000 times.
tbh they are losing to Webtoon & Manga. I had this conversation with a friend: Comics literally told every story possible and they created every super heroe possible. everything superhero related now is a subproduct of what has already been done.
This was all by design. Superheroes were one of the last bastions of morals and decency in a fucked up world.
Ah well.
@@bryana.escaleralopez i disagree, manga have alot of superheroes storys that are new and werent made in comics.
one punch! mob 100, Arise! ect.
Congratulations on 20 years.
I’m reminded of what Mike Rowe said. He said that you should go where the money is and get passionate about it. Do not make your primary income your passion. As far as hobbies go, follow your passion. In other words, if you love making comics then make them on the side of whatever it is that actually pays the bills.
I forget who said it but the best way to ruin a hobby or something is to do it for work. I hear it from video game testers that they never play games again. I love bicycling but I can’t imagine a better way to ruin it for me than to have someone telling me how to do it. I wouldn’t make comics or other artistic jobs my primary income.
That reminds me of a conversation with my uncle. Now and then I will get a wild hair and cook. I have to be in the mood to do it but I'm actually very good at it. After my uncle ate my cooking he asked why I didn't open a restaurant and offered to front the cost to open one. I told him no. Flat out no. When I cook I actually enjoy cooking and I know I would end up hating cooking it if I did it for a living....it's the same reason I never shoot pool for money. If I'm doing it for money then it becomes work.
@@markcarpenter6020 I'm the same way about writing. I love it, been told for many years that "You should do this professionally." And when I couldn't resist and got hired by a guy who owned a software company...I hated it. Nothing like the flames, jokes, lies, parodies, humorous poems and bizarre mashups I used to do online for free.
I couldn't agree more with that statement.
@ Wonko the sane
Wise decision. I’ve watched enough business rescue shows to know that cooking and running a business are very different skill sets and many often get in the trap of cooking when they should be managing. That and don’t open a bar if you like drinking.
@@stephenm3667 every bar tender I've ever known was also an alcoholic lol. But I explained it to my uncle cooking for half dozen people is an entirely different thing from cooking for a couple hundred or more a day.
I remember years ago reading that - I think it was Jack Kirby - said that Bill Everett "died from alcoholism and comics, not necessarily in that order." It's a tough way to make a living, always has been since the earliest days.
Kirby I think also said to someone don't go into comics it'll break your heart
I can't believe this happened 🤯
Not getting paid in comic industry was like that then and it's like that today. That's why I chose a different path in the art game.
This is why I didn't persue my dream to become a writer or published author. I knew it was bad.
These people sound like they DESERVE to be paid a living wage without compromise. If your “hobby” doesn’t make you a living switch jobs. Envy is the thief of joy. So much foolishness.
And they blame “capitalism”, of course, because Stalin was so much more tolerant of shitty artists producing content no one wants.
Over 20 years? Congratualations....
There's nothing more tedious than hearing people complain about the outcomes of choices they have made when they are perfectly capable of making different choices. As you said many times, they chose to do comics for a job, they can choose to do a different job instead. But, they want to be in comics so they can infest them with their political poison, and they know that if they went to work elsewhere their politics would be largely ignored, therefore making them irrelevant.
What i don't understand is that these same people are also the ones who demonize other comic pros for speaking out against the industry. Seems like a serious case of stockholm.
Also it's nice to see Geeky again, was missing her.
I was told not to buy the book if I didn't like the politics. So I didn't.
"If you don't like my politics.....don't buy my book. Problem solved."
I took a(tool)and stuck it in my(body part). Boy, I hate when that happens!
Who care they did them to themselves being so toxic and that why the industry is failing
At Wizard/Chicago Comic-Con 1999, I met a comic book artist who mainly worked in animation. He told me he was doing that because it paid the bills!
I've seen and bought comics from plenty of animation pros including Bruce Timm who's probably the best known name of animation people who've done comics. It was STILL not their main job! The guy who created Herobear was also a storyboard/idea man who worked mainly for Pixar.
Jack Kirby, prior to retiring, worked in the animation field doing character designs and storyboards for shows like the 1978(?) DePatie-Freleng Fantastic Four animated series, Thundarr the Barbarian, and other series. Ironically, one of his first jobs was assistant animating (in-betweening) on the Fleischer Popeye and Betty Boop theatrical shorts in the 1930s. Probably got better-paid in animation either way!
Two more mentions of comic book artists who did storyboards for Hollywood -- both Dave Stevens and Jim Steranko worked on Raiders of the Lost Ark!
These people have never heard of the phrase 'starving artist'? I went into programming and didn't even work for start ups, always worked for financial institutions or large corporations. May not be glamourous, but pay was good and consistent and always had benefits. Use a good job to fund your passions, not the other way around.
Comic book distributors NEVER knew how to sell comics. Ever. Stan Lee was the only person who understood how to make and sell Comics. His "build the story AROUND the sketches" formula always worked. Nobody in the comic book industry today or even back before Stan Lee does this. Comic book stores were forced to take terribly written and terribly drawn comic books from Marvel and DC in order to get just one or two of the comics that actually sold.
This brought back things that I dealt with that I wish I had left my job years ago. I worked for a branch of government. They would constantly threaten to close the place I worked, threaten to bring in younger, faster people, had unachievable rates to meet. Constantly tell you that you are wrong. All for 41,000.00 a year. Lost my back at 48, developed Vertigo, ended up with a Saddle Pulmonary Embolism. Geeky & Kneon are right on so many levels but not just about the industry but about a lot of employers. Gone are the times of spending your working life with the same company and retiring after 30 years. Everyone should sit down now and reassess their life. I have been disabled since I was 48. Been unable to work for 13 years. If you are not paid what you believe you are worth, time for greener pastures.
Damn i def feel like i dont see this kind of controversy in the manga industry
At this point we're going to see a crash that'll rival the video game crash of 1983
Huh...kind of fitting if Comics crash in 2023...
Accelerate the collapse!
wish that video games were band all over the world there a bad influence.
@@ryanmatthews3609 *Banned
Also, games aren't a bad influence, it's the woke shit ruining them.
@@mywifesboyfriend5558 yes they are
Huh, no wonder they are so miserable… The thing is they did it to themselves, nobody force them to do this and only this. I have had hard work before, heck I even did 48 hrs shifts and I had to pay for my own food, at a time I barely had enough money. I move in to green pastures, but I never blame any one on this actions, I man up and took to chin, and all the mistakes I made have made me stronger and wiser.
However I am sorry for them, but at the same time I pity them… They are just idiots who trick and became even bigger idiots who take their frustration on the people are basically keeping the afloat… Like the old saying goes “You get what you asked for”.
Also they deserve no sympathy, you got a bad job and your only way to deal with it, is by demonizing your own costumers. Don’t go asking for sympathy when you never gave any.
Its almost as if they didn't understand that the only time a freelancer will ever make real money is if they manage to develop such a strong reputation for producing good work that they can charge $100k for a single job.
When kneon mentioned that he didn't like going to artist alley, i agreed with how he felt because i've been to artsist alleys in conventions and ive felt the same feelings as he did and theres so many artists that arent able to make sales and i feel bad that they go out of their way to haul all their stuff from con to con.
Like some artists ive met are super cool people and i wished they would be able to get paid well but sadly it doesn't work like that and all i can do is wish them the best.
What I wondering is that if the money is very bad, that you can not survive on it and they constantly late as well by large time amounts.
WHY ARE YOU STILL WORKING FOR THESE PEOPLE ?
Because they are actually bad at art/writing and can't find work at a real publisher or self publish.
The propaganda machine isn't that big that others want them...
I'd be lying if I said I didn't feel bad for them, it always sucks seeing people's passion get stomped on, but at the same time you really can't be going at this stuff blindly. If year after year you're not making money, or worse going into debt, you need to acknowledge that something is wrong. This is a death of salesman situation, where people think just keeping your nose to the grindstone is going to bring you fortune and glory.
I do metalworking, primarily private commissions, and I've been working with my teacher for 7 years or so and I've had to repeatedly argue with him about how he does business because he's constantly putting in more work than he agreed to, and he doesn't charge for it. It's always wanting to impress the customer that keeps him from his other goal which is to make money. No matter how much I argue with him he never seems to understand where he's going wrong. In the last four years I've learning from his mistakes and been separating my business from his, and I've been doing a lot better because of it.
"It's like a bunch of adult lemonade stands." Wow, that is TOTALLY artist alley's vibes. i once was blind, and now i see.
I don't understand why people think there's no money in comics. I remember, about 20 years ago now (yes, I'm not as young as I used to be), I made about $40 selling my comics at a book fair in Melbourne. Sure, I paid 3 times that to print copies, paid for airfares and a hotel, and the book fair forgot to tell anyone they were doing comics that year (we were in a different venue and no one came). All the artists in the room agreed to buy each others books so we could at least say we sold something.
THAT was both my first and last attempt to print and sell comics. At the time I had a series being published in a Melbourne magazine (hence why I travelled there). I thought, after a pretty successful webcomic and then the magazine, that that would be the start of something good. Nope. Started Sunday morning, was probably over by about lunchtime. Thankfully I've always had a day job, and (after an extended break), I'm making comics again these days, though they are just for me and the 2 people who actually know where my site is (I know who you both are, and thank you!). I've known a lot of people in the Australian comics scene, but I've never properly fit in myself, so I doubt any but a tiny few remember me these days.
It's so sad how mainstream Western comics have become this way. The horror definitely started around 2012.
American comics! 'The west' is more than the USA alone.
Is there any way it can be fixed
Nope. Long before. It got worse at that point.
@@dbsommers1 Elaborate.
@@animezilla4486 Yes. Hire actual talent.
People have been dumb down. When you have college students majoring in majors that you will make no money. Then they graduate and owe for student loans and complain.
Get them Geeky, set it on 🔥
So I do a lot of comic cons and the artist alley thing is true. Honestly, that is why I tend to have a booth at shows I was going to go to anyway that are closer to me - don't want to give that look of desperation. It's especially rough when you know someone has flown out and gotten hotel at someplace expensive (Like NYC) only for that to blow up in their face.
Welp. They should have made stories that the majority of people wanted....instead of trying to cater to people who were not even the paying audience anyway 🤷♂️
Actually, even when comics worked (90s-00s), it didn't really pay.
@@carlflaherty2215 dude it paid A LOT more then it did now.
This conversation hit home for me. This is what my professors told me at art school (animation degree, class of ‘14). They said if you want to live a normal life, have time for romantic relationships or for family, then get out now. Long story short I do not work in animation, but I am a self-made tattoo artist and the only reason I can do this is because I have a supportive husband. (I’m not making much yet.) Thanks for this video you two! Art fields are way tougher than people think.
1) Find out what people want, need, can’t live without.
2) mass produce and distribute, sell
3) profit
Cracks me up you two understand the sacrifice that it takes to be…. An Artist…. What’s the one word associated with artist….. Struggle…..and it’s not just your guys profession. It’s all artists. Brings the most joy to others but little to no reward. Unless your spiritual…
Years ago, Freakonomics made a study of drug dealers in Chicago. Their conclusion was, one guy gets to the top and makes buckets of money. But he doesn't last long before he's killed by an ambitious person in his own gang, or killed by a rival gang or arrested by the police and sent to jail for a long time. A few middle managers make some money. But most of the crew make McDonalds wages for dreary work. If there's a gang war, a lot of them desert and get jobs with McDonalds. (Who wants to get killed for minimum wage?)
Sounds to me like the comics industry is the same. A few greats get well known and make great pay. The rest are grunts who work long hours digging latrines, for low pay.
Freakonomics was citing the work of an economics student at U of Chicago, and it was fascinating. Good summary. It really was shocking how the wages throughout the drug-dealing organization tracked "low level/supervisory/middle management and top management" equivalents in "regular" companies. The idea of whacking the CEO doesn't track with most US corporations, but maybe it could be instituted? Just a thought...
@@Trollificusv2 if you wanna whack the CEO just metoo them or find some other way to coup'd them from their position, just look at what disney did to chapek
@@hertzwave8001 Good point. Look what they did to Laseter at Pixar, too. "Allegations" of...basically nothing, leveled by ambitious and unscrupulous women. As if that would never happen, lol.
I'm a recent full time teacher and really happy I can start to be stable enough to pursue my hobby of woodworking and cosplay prop making. I take commissions only and I love it.
Art releases your passion and I love teaching too.
So please, make sure you can actually live before you pursue a passion.
Anyone who stands at the crossroads of intersectionality and complains that the same thing happens to you that happens to everyone else around you. You aren't special, and neither are we.
Boohoo, people say mean things about my crappie work, and that hurts my feelings. Oh, woe is me. -some idiot
*Meanwhile, the Manga industry be like.*
Manga: *Sings* We can't stop, let's go! Oh oh! We are the future! Oh oh! You are the past!
With perfectly synchronized dancing.
well Manga/lite novels are doing way better than American comics but there's some messed up stuff there too