Moog Grandmother vs Minimoog Model D reissue // review and demo
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- čas přidán 1. 08. 2019
- #moog #minimoog #grandmother
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If you're looking at buying a new synth try this link for Perfect Circuit - I might get a bung ;)
www.pjtra.com/t/SENKTExLTUtDS...
As they're both 3 oscillator Moog's I thought I’d look at the most famous alongside the most recent of Moog’s monosynths.
Over view 0:51
Filter 2:10
Oscillators 7:36
Sharkstooth 9:08
Sawtooth 9:24
Square 10:11
PWM 12:00
Noise 13:23
Sync 13:44
Linear FM 13:55
Modulation 14:40
S&H 20:38
Envelopes 20:52
Feedback 21:36
Some Sounds 22:30
Conclusion 24:55 - Krátké a kreslené filmy
I love my grandmother :) I have her connected to a Roland System 500 and it's just bliss.
In fact, wtf am I doing sitting in front of youtube?!
Out of context, this is a very weird thing to say 😂
Great comparison! I have a reissue model D and recently picked up a Moog Grandmother and agree with your assessment. Both are great synths, but the GM is an incredible bargain, and its additional features... Arp/Sequencer, PWM, Osc sync, FM, high-pass filter, spring reverb!, and all the modular patch points & signal routing options, etc... makes it (IMHO) *more* versatile than the Model D. And it can still deliver the classic Moog sounds we all love... huge, rich, deep, warm, thick, fat. Really an outstanding design... I believe it's a modern/retro classic. Thanks for posting the excellent video.
Thanks man.
Been waiting for someone to do this for a while!
very interesting video, thanks for the time you spent to make it.
I love how you just have the moogerfoogers out like it's nothing haha it looks so damn pretty!!!
I swore silently to myself when i saw that corner of pure moog goodness. No doubt there is more lol. Anyway gonna chill later have a good watch and leave a comment . 👍👍👍
such an important video for me.. sometimes I get mini-depression, not appreciating it's simplicity. So these reality checks on it's true pedigree are very welcome!
Excillent comparison. Thank you.
I think the main advantage of GM is modularity. You can easily swap the filter on your GM with eurorack module or use other synth for that, create cross synth patches , add sequence modulations with things like Korg SQ-1 and so on. I really like running GM through the Microvolt 3900 12db filter. It gets completely different vibe to the synth and makes it sound really modern. Another great feature is sping reverb - since you get separate out for that at the back of GM you can process it through your favorite chorus and eq effects and create wide stereo spaces.
😎 i just got GM today as my first synth
Grandmother really is the 21st Century heir of the Minimoog crown, or what the Minimoog might easily have evolved into. And certainly the best entry-level Moog that can interface with modular gear. I've added a Korg Odyssey Desktop Module as a companion to the GM for extending sonic possibilities.
yup 100%
it is
Thanks! I was waiting for a video comparing these. Seems like for most people GM will be the only option as it has more than enough sonic breadth and so many more features like useful distortion from the mixer and obviously modular connections, arp, sequencer, reverb... and like you say excellent value for a real moog. I'd love for you to compare GM and Minibrute 2 one day.
You literally get crackle on the minimoog the second you turned the knob Starsky 😂
I prefer the filter of the Minimoog. But then again I'm probably biased because I own one... lol ! Although I must admit that the Grandmother is a superb value and great sounding for not a lot of money, AND it's a genuine Moog ! Although I feel that the upcoming Matriarch might outshine it ? We'll see... Great review/comparison. Thanks for sharing.
Thanks! Convinced me to get one. Lovely intro track btw!👍😀
This is a great video! I also have a reissue Minimoog D and the GM. I've got GAS for the Matriarch, especially after seeing/hearing all the demo videos. I finally got the chance to mess with one yesterday here in town at Control Voltage. At first I was getting a little disappointed because there was some things going on that I wasn't quite sure why. Part of it I was trying to play and set it up the way I would the GM. It just wasn't giving me what I thought I should until I really started figuring out the extra switches and modes. Then it started to shine.The GM though is so immediate and easy to play. And with the built in spring reverb it's kind it's neat little all in one package. The Minimoog is somewhat similar in being fairly immediate, just a little more in changing things up. Both the GM and Minimoog are pretty much my favorites out of all the other toys/synths I have because of the fairly simplistic layout.
The Matriarch is one of the best synths of all time. I love mine. It’s absolutely amazing.
Very happy with this video!! Now I know I should get a mini
im think about get a minimoog to i got the GM
Great video, thanks! Couple things on the GM: If you hold shift while turning the Mod Rate knob you can fine tune it. You can also get a much brighter sound if you patch from the mixer out into the VCA in (bypassing the filter).
Good to know, i was wondering about that
that what i did and it great
Relating to the PWM hack on the Mini, I find that using the sawtooth wave on OSC 1 or 2 sounds better than using the small pulse. The effect is much more pronounced and less chaotic.
Great vid, I get cracking on mine also. Cheers
A bit of vigorous wiggling seems to have done the trick.
You can patch the Lfo + the mixer Output into the Multi of the utility and go from there to the Filter. you then got 3 oscs. Without loosing the noise. If you send the lfo through the attenuator you can even regulate the volume
Ah ha... nice
Thanks , i was looking for that 👍🌞
Patch out of the grandmothers attenuator to cutoff to bring it higher than it's set
Other great video. Appreciate your time doing these videos. You may have cost me an OB6 from your other videos though.
Thumbs up! :-)
Indiana USA.
After all these years, serious synthesists are still buying the Moog! I was told that the sounds are thicker (fat, sic) and more organic than latter models by other brands.
Told by who?
@Geoffrey Merrifield By anyone with sense.
Im fan of Mini's more warm oscilators and GM's less agressive filter. ;-) Great video again, good job!
i like both
I was going to get the GM, but a used Sub 37 for a really good price came up. That and the mini MS-20 plus my Model D clone ticks all my boxes for lead and bass. Just listened to a Jam with other folks and the Sub 37 just cuts but is not overwhelming. Anyway thanks for this comparison.
I love my Grandmother too! :)
I say get a Grandmother/Matriarch and a Behringer D! Best of Both! Have always loved the Minimoog D Cabinet....mmmmm wood and aluminum....::drool::
Steven Moller of course, the only answer is to get both ;)
@@MarioTorre its the only true way :)
Though I do like dirt and grit, I prefer a better balance between that and smoothness as the Mini has.
Fab comparison! Is there same for Matriarch vs Mini? TNX!
That crackling on GM is terrible! Mine was crackling after a month after purchase and I had to send it to Thomann for repairs. Now that they have replaced the knob it’s almost perfect, just needs to warm up a little for silent operation. A quick tip - you can use attenuator for controlling filter without crackles :-)
Moog have sent me a new pot. Just requires a bit of soldering.
Is there a way to extend the amount of keys on the Grandmother to be the same amount as the MiniMoog?
Would really love to see a comparison between the Grandmother and the Subsequent 25.
They are within $100 CAD in price and I'm looking for my first (and probably only) analog synth.
Moog could have made the Sub 25 a desktop module and reduced the price a bit. That likely would have pushed me in that direction. As it stands, I don't know. Coin flipping time?
Spend the extra hundred get the grandmother. I dont even think the sub 25 has an arpeggiater or sequencer.
These were the two that I had to decide on too. The videos on CZcams are what swayed me to the Grandmother.
I wonder if you'd be willing to do a quick video that compares the Model D to the Grandmother if the Grandmother's cutoff range was extended by the attenuator. I'm pretty sure you can make the filter open up wider.
Could you compare the Model D doing those typical 3-osc tones (like the Assault on Precinct 13 bass sound) vs the Grandmother, when configured this way? (I know it's a lot of trouble to put together these videos, but it would really help if we could get a good comparison of those typical core tones that people want a vintage Moog for)
I have a question, if you bypass the filter with the grandmother, does it make the sound brighter? I like aggressive and buzzy tones, For some patches I find myself cranking up the filter and apart from the minimoog I always find myself unsatisfied, little Phatty gets close, sub37 is extremely dull, voyager too…any suggestion?
Yes, it does! 😎👍🏼
Great video! If you have to choose something to replace the Minimoog Model D which one you will pick - Grandmother or Voyager?
Grandmother
Voyager i’d prefer clearly if it was the only synyh though
I have the Behringer D. I like that it sounds basically exactly like a minimoog, and it’s also got patch points.
James Corcoran not even close.
@@xxheartbrokexx100 Listen from 13:46. Pretty impressive to my ears... try listening without looking
@@xxheartbrokexx100 Actually, it’s EXTREMELY close. It’s a replica of the model D with the same circuitry.
@@benjamincoggins6568 yeah, with modern cheap ROHS compliant components made of different substrate materials. With a fake pass through the clipping bulb and a diode with a tendency to bias in reverse suddenly, literally making the behringer sound like a wet fart and nothing else. It’s a lot less close than you think…
@@xxheartbrokexx100 Fair enough. Have only heard recordings which sounded super close, but sounds like you've checked. I stand corrected.
At 12:04 the Pulse of the Width?? I think you mean the Width of the Pulse.
The original Minimoog could drone if you inserted the shorted S-Trigger plug into the Socket in the back and you turned up the Sustain. I suppose on the reissue you would use the V-Trigger connector in place of the S-Trigger and Cinch-Jones connector used on the original Minimoog.
Haha ... no I definitely meant the pulse of the width 😂😂
@@StarskyCarr **Sigh** You Britts..
I keep coming back for 5:42
Obvs the minimoog is known as a low end bass monster, how does the GM compare in this regard?
Just a scant few years ago, Behringer was a joke. I put them into the same quality category as Pyle, Mackie, Art, Rolls, etc. and other prosumer studio audio gear brands: fine for a budget personal studio, but not really good enough for a serious pro-level bit of audio kit. I spent a wad getting a Midas 32R just before Behringer bought Midas and introduced their own clone. I was very skeptical. But Behringer seemed to be reverse-engineering the Midas preamps very well, and their X32 mixer turned out to be better quality than expected. I would totally enjoy playing around with a Behringer synthesizer (keyboard and/or modular). Their System 55 is apparently a credible clone of a Moog system costing 500% more.
hey I will like to know from the back which out did you use to work with Logic
The high level is best for this, low level is for guitar amps.
Is it just me, or is the Grandmother/Matriarch more tonally-similar to the Minimoog Model D than the Sub 37 (or even the Voyager)?
its because the Grandmother's architecture is built from more retro synths when compared to the sub 37, the Grandmother is like a System 15 mixed with a Model D
@@MichaelPintoDiaz52 Yeah, I kept telling myself I wanted to swap my Sub 37 for a Grandmother/Matriarch, but I feel like it actually has its own sound that is very unique. Dark, mushy, modern kind of sound.
I've got a Model D and if I swapped out the sub for a grandmother, I feel like it'd have two slightly different model Ds, rather than two unique synths.
I actually find that the Moog One sounds more to me like the personality of the Sub 37 oscillators style (with a mix of the voyager tone), like they chose that modern flavor for it.
It's nuts how much of a difference these subtle things make. (Glad we have ppl like Starsky doing comparisons) :)
@Starsky Carr I know maybe it's a stupid question. But I have one day to choose between Moog Matriarch and Subsequent 37. I need mostly for work (not for music creation, I'm programmer of auv3/vsti instruments). Which one you did recommend? If sub37 has same possibilities, then propably this one? As I understand with both I can create FM and both have same filters (except multidrive). Thanks a lot!
For more experimental stuff I’d go Matriarch but you prefer repeatability, integration with your daw and presets then the Sub 37. Both great just depends on your workflow and needs.
@StarskyCarr Thanks for reply. So, for experiments better Matriarh? Again, I don''t want to write song, just experimenting with sound. e.g.creating crazy frequeny modulation and filter modulations that allows me to reproduce it in the vsti. But if sub27 doing the same or more and even better, then I would choose it instead of matriarch. My current implementation is a 1 to 1 repeat of the moog filter. It remains to repeat FM. This will be my first analog synthesizer and I don't want go get a mistake. The matriarch looks like it can give same things that can give me sub37 (if we speak regarding sound, not presets). Therefore, I will ask the question differently - is there a sound that cannot be made on "Matriarch"? if not, then the choice is obvious
The sub37 has the 2 LFO modulation routines that can be synced to tempo, as can the looping envelopes. This is its secret weapon. The matriarch can’t do that but it has arguably more experimental opportunities with FM. If you want FM style tones go with the matriarch, if you want syncable modulation go with the sub 37.
@@StarskyCarr Thanks, so the sub37 seems to be good and modern deal!
Matriarch sounds better than Sub37. I’d only get S37 if you NEED presets.
The grandmother really stood out to me more than the 5k plus minimoog. Im glad I have a grandmother. Will look at the sub 37 simply for the ability to save patches.
But this video kinda convinced me that my grandmother will be a classic 25 years from now
it going be classic
thanks for your video. I have a question to you . I'm a total synth newbie and I own a moog grandmother, now I want to buy another synth. is that nonsense to buy a behringer poly? is cheap and polyphonic, what would you recommend? thank you and excuse my english, google translatior
For an analog poly with full size keys the Behringer is great, but if you're not sticking to analog then the Modal Cobalt8 and Argon8 are great value as well - with full size keys and editors for Mac, PC and iPad. Otherwise if smaller keys aren't an issue the Korg Minilouge XD sounds fantastic (with both digital and analog oscillators). So much choice :)
@@StarskyCarr Thank you for your quick, helpful answer! analog is important to me and I don't use a pc one last question please. I would also have the opportunity to get a sub phatty cheaply what would you do in my place? behringer poly d or sub phatty? Please excuse if the questions seem stupid, just don't want to go wrong because I can't buy anything for a long time and have far too little idea
@@Kim-on1ej if the sun pharynx is cheap enough get it… then sell it for a small profit and buy a deepmind :) it’s good to have a Poly. The sub phatty is great - although 25 keys could annoy you. I’ve a s37 and the GM and a video comparing them if you dig deep enough in my channel. It depends on what sort of music you make really. … and if chords, and FX would be useful.
@@StarskyCarr thx
@@StarskyCarr even if I don't like the look as much as the poly d (not important) 😅 I have just ordered a deepmind 12 for an unbelievable 369 € 🙌 at this price I had to choose it! Thank you for your quick help, your advice and for your videos 💪
fan of moog
oh man these pedals....!!
How does it compare to the Voyager?
I personally think the Grandmother is a lot more fun and accessible than the Voyager.
The Voyager relaunched Moog but I find the Grandmother is simply more direct fun. That kind of fun where I get lost for hours and hours and hours.
I wonder how the Grandmother would sound against a 1970's era Model D.
Yeah... you can’t really compare them... there different beasts. Though if anyone is into making hip hop go for the model D. I found the low end thumps harder than the grandmother. I’ve messed around with both. Though grandmother can blast you off into space with some pretty interstellar sounds with its semi modular set up
The Crazy Canadian I respectfully disagree. Grandmother can get just as much low thump imo(routing the LFO as a 3rd oscillator puts it a 1 to 1 comparison, otherwise model D would still hold the edge).
Also might want to try the minitaur a lot of people are under the impression that it has the same sound as the sub series, but it gets lower and rounder similar to the minimoog but a little cleaner which is nice for sub bass, and it’s cheap and really dedicated for those duties
I really thinking about grandmother vs behringer Poly D but can't find any comparison ..... somebody here can say something about this ?
A really difficult decision - wished I'd compared them when I had them both in the studio now!! I can't choose between them, but lean more toward the GM if you can find a used one ... nothing in it really. It depends - if you'd patch with other kit, the GM, if you'd like to play the odd chord etc the Poly- D.
@@StarskyCarr Thank for the reply starsky and your great work in your channel here .i always dreamed about have a moog and the grandmother looks the best value for money but very limited and the poly d looks so " premium " so good .The only thinks stop me on the poly D are Behringer quality ... i know now times changed for behringer but back in time behringer made so bad clones of mixers and other stuff.
@Rhizosphere i was thinking the same matriarch are a dream come true from moog but the price..... but thanks for comment here bro , i gonna make my mind which to grab
5:35 "we can't get into that territory": basically, can anyone recommend some filter module that brings the Grandmother into that Minimoog territory?
the question is: why? The GM doesn't need to be a Minimoog, and I get it, I once felt that way as well.
To me though, the Grandmother is a continuation of where the Minimoog left off and could have come out in like, 1982 say. It's got the Modular Moog filter. Sounds different but just as phat and cool to me. I think it's the best sounding Moog in years. Best inheritor of the Minimoog crown if you like. Should have been called the 'Granddaughter' : )
Granddaughter of the Minimoog by way of the Voyager ... which I never really liked as much as I thought I would.
Minimoog does what it does and is an instrument unto itself. So too is the Grandmother. An instrument unto itself that is super accessible, sounds pretty amazing. And just begs to be played. I say this from getting lost in playing the GM for hours. And that's even before adding patch cables.
If I were to advise any young keyboardist or synth player, I would say, "buy a Grandmother and keep it forever." because it will never go out of style and always be super useful, a modern standard.
If you really want the Minimoog sound you really have to get a Minimoog.
@@BarryWarne I agree. But the Grandmother has patchpoints that invite to crossbreed it with other things and push its boundaries, also from an educational point of view: I am very interested in what exactly makes the difference between those two (same) filters and like to explore how to achieve a certain sound from scratch. The Grandmother is indeed a fantastic instrument. I have it since 2 years and it is my favorite synthesizer.
Maybe the AJH MiniMod Transistor Ladder Filter?
Perhaps backing off the levels in the mixer would have helped.
What is your oppinion, should i rather get a little phatty or Grandmother soundwise?
Grandmother for sound :)
@@StarskyCarr thank you my man ❤️
Grandmother vs poly D?
To my dismay, I found that both the Matriarch and the Grandmother at my local music store had several scratchy pots.
Clean them with deoxit. The crackle goes away
I'm looking to buy a Re Issue Model D ...UK
Next is uncle and nephew
"For a Moog, a staggeringly good value". ...yes, for a moog. I know I'm attacking the sacred cow but, paying a lot for the name IMO.
=( GM doesn't have OD
I find it impossible to justify the $5,000 (5X THE PRICE OF A GRANDMOTHER!!!) price point of the 2023 minimoog model, when I feel like I can get a lot of the classic mode sounds out of a $1,000 Grandmother.
Which has a sequencer spring reverb..etc)
Feels like you really are just paying for the mystique reputation, and maybe locally-sourced Appalachian cherrywood) of Minimoog.
Moog picks the worst names for their synth models. Awful. Great video comparison!
My daughter thinks it should be called The Rainbow
@@StarskyCarr It certainly makes more sense to me! :)
I like their naming scheme... people often refer to the Minimoog as the “mothership”, so I’ve always assumed that’s where all the mother names come from.
And now that I think of it, the GM costs about $1,000 new, so makes even more sense. The 1 Grand Mothership.
lol, moog and good value have no business in the same sentence.
Mini moke?? Didn't the text writer noticed it's a Mini Moog?? Shame on him/her!!
Turn the knobs like a MAN. None of this single finger slide nonsense.
Haha .. playing fast and loose with the knobs! That’s far too uncontrollable when I’m trying to match them.. once the camera stops recording though..... :)
@@StarskyCarr At least you can trust a Moog knob not to break
Such a shame the grandmother has such a vile colour scheme (subjective, I know)
I've grown to like it - though it looked ridiculous at first!
@@StarskyCarr I've had a Matriarch for three weeks now and the color scheme makes it easy to identify sections quickly. I look up at my Sub 37TE and have to squint as everything runs together. Initially I didn't like the colors as it made it look cheap however, it's a solid machine and I've grown to appreciate the colors for reasons stated. Waiting for a Matriarch vid, Starsky, to give me some ideas. ;-)
The newer “Dark” version looks much better imho!
Astonished that Moog's current line of synths look like bizarrely coloured 1970's toys. Has their product design team been at the old wacky backy ? If not, perhaps they should consider it.
These synths look clumsy, undignified and just bloody awful. Sober up guys. I wouldn't spend a cent to have one of these mess up my studio.
I have to agree....vigorously! I've been putting off pressing the buy button despite the GM sitting tantalisingly in my shopping basket for Thomann, if it is to be a Moog then maybe the Subsequent 37 but I find it unjustified given I have 9 one/two/three osc mono/para synths already with a battalion of sequencers and DAWs to do with it what I wish including the Behringer Crave and D with their pretty decent ladder filters. Really cannot see the value-add other than being a Brand Magpie. The colours are bad enough but the nomenclature - who calls a synth Grandmother unless you really are a deviant?
I Love the design. Also practical delineation of the modules that underlines the heritage of the design
I think the old pedals used those colors... don't quote me
Totally reminds ME of the colors on the Realistic Concertmate MG-1 (As I understand it, built by Moog, licensed by Radio Shack, close in features to Moog’s Rogue)
I totally agree! But I’m fairly sure that, by now, you have heard that there is a “Dark” version of both the Grandmother and the Matriarch!