Here are the technical reasons why I'm a Alden Indy fan. First I'm in my 70s and have worn a lot of business shoes, casual shoes and boots throughout my life. Had my first pair of work boots when I was 8 yrs old... and many pairs since. A boot is a system. Each part has a function in context with the rest of the parts in order to achieve the goals of the boot. The Indy boot is an orthopedic boot built on a patented orthopedic last, designed to keep your foot in a healthy anatomical position. It has a wide toe box giving space for bunions or other deformities, and it narrows down at the instep and heel to produce a tall, long and firm heel cup. Other parts of the orthopedic system include the cork midsole, the well designed metal shank, and the Thomas heel. Cork, which seems to be missing from many boots, is buoyant, elastic, breathable and water resistant. It is also very durable. A cork footbed molds around your foot to give orthopedic support and comfort. It's one of the reasons Indy boots "break in" in a matter of days or a couple of weeks and stay comfortable over the life of the boot. The Indy boot metal shank is made of tempered steel, properly contoured and triple ribbed for strength. Too many boot makers use a thick piece of leather or wood for the shank. Simply cannot compete with a properly designed metal shank for arch support and long lasting comfort. The Thomas heel (the curved front of the heel) adds rear and midfoot medial support. Good for any foot, but especially for people with excessively pronated feet. This is why people love their Indy boots. Quick to break in, very supportive regardless of foot issues, and the orthopedic properties force you to walk correctly, making it possible to work all day in them very comfortably. And they are NOT overly heavy. Heavy boots are not good for your ankles, legs and lower back. That's why it's important for any boot maker to achieve the goals of the boot, at the LEAST possible weight. I have arthritis now, and no longer wear any shoes other than my two pair of Indy boots. They reduce significantly the pain in my feet, legs and back. Since I live in Portland, no one cares when I wear them to the Symphony. Alden Indy Boots are simply better engineered than any other boot. Thank youi for reading my comments.
@@BootlosophyCarl always misses too! At least from a bunch of his videos that I watched. There could be one or two video where he nailed it but I haven't found it 😂
Prof. Oh's introduction to management consulting and shoe manufacturing (plus a whole lot more)! A better, more entertaining class than experienced at most business schools. Thank you for the education!
I have owned several pairs of Alden shoes, and personally, I don't feel that the price is worth it for me. However, this video was so excellently done that it has given me a greater appreciation for the brand and a better understanding of what I'm actually paying for. Well done!
As a bean counter myself (and an Alden Addict) I can really appreciate this video. This is superb ! Thanks for this analysis. This takes your channel to another level !
I like this kind of video. Thank you. People who never ran a business always assume that businesses make so much money that they do not know what to do with it. They do not consider all the other expenses businesses have other than the cost of goods sold. So, this is highly informative.
TLDR: cost cutting is often used to boost short term profits because it results in immediate increase in profits, but can take years to result in negative consequences for a brand. Teik, I too am a cold-blooded accountant. Great presentation! I would like to add something from my college days that really turned on the lightbulb for me as to why companies go so aggressively for cost cutting. In your model, Alden makes about 13% net profit or about $3.75 million. Let’s say that management/the board set a budget for next year to make $5 million of net profit. First scenario: make it up on volume (I.e. sell more) Assuming the $20 per pair in your model, that means they have to sell an additional 62,500 shoes, an increase of 33% on sales. While not impossible, increasing sales by 33% on an established brand is very difficult to achieve in the real world and will likely take years of effort to finally be realized. Second scenario: cut costs to improve margins. Every dollar not spent on costs is a dollar still in the bank , and ultimately kept as profit. In order to increase profits by $1.25 million, that means cutting costs by $6.67 per pair, using your original estimate of 187,500 pairs. In your model you estimated that the materials cost difference per pair was $10 between Alden and GS ($50 vs $60). So, whether they could find another $6.67 of savings, I don’t know. But if they were still paying that extra $10 on materials that GS is paying, their profit would be cut in half down to $1.875 million! Third scenario: raise prices If they need an extra $1.25 million of profit on 187,500 pairs, that equates to the same $6.67 per pair. But that is at the brand level, so factoring in the retailer’s cut, that $13.33 price increase to the consumer. However, some customers might get upset by a price increase, and you will lose some sales numbers. This has all sorts of knock-on effects, like unsold inventory buybacks, decrease in relationship with retailers, decrease in brand presence, etc. So, to make it worth the negative effects, the final price might increase by $20-25. Now, in any good business they are looking to do all three things at any given time. Companies always want to sell the most product, at the highest price possible, and purchased/produced at the lowest possible cost. Each of those objectives increases the bottom line. But I wanted to highlight that, most of the time, the easiest way (in the sense that all you have to do is change the price tag) to pick up profit is to raise prices, but you get a lot of negative immediate consequences from raising prices, especially reduced sales and decrease in customer goodwill/loyalty. Increasing sales is a no-compromise way of boosting the bottom line, but is very hard (and expensive) to do in the real world and usually takes years of effort to see the difference. Cutting costs, however, is picked up on the bottom line almost immediately, and the negative consequences (if any - not every cost cut results in a quality decrease) can usually take years to be realized (customers might take years to realize that quality has declined). Hence, this is why companies so often go down the path of cost cutting and reducing quality - it boosts quarterly/annual profits now and takes years to bite them back.
Nicely laid out. Alden has certainly not shied away from raising prices in recent years, whereas the decisions to cut costs on materials happened several years ago and it's just catching up to them now. Thanks so much for taking the time to write that out!!
Before we’re even three minutes into the video I’m just going to say because of the last alone it’s worth it. I have my favorites in the boot world and because of TruBalance the Indy in all its make ups is unshakable from my list of Must Haves. If someone can dupe the last and the feeling of the internals then I’m all in. The insole and lasting board combo Alden uses is also a wild feeling. No break in no matter how many new pairs I’ve worn
I bought the Indys recently and I’m very very satisfied. I have wide feet, so the fit was even more important to me than for others. I also have a 17 year old cap toe Alden dress shoe that I will be wearing for a long long time more. Grant Stone wasn’t around back then. Grant Stone is a great company too. Considering the costs, I’m more than happy to keep Alden in business and also Grant Stone. For those that can’t afford Alden, there are lots of less expensive options these days.
"Cold blooded bean counter"... this phrase made my day! Great video Teikoh and a well made video on the breakdown on why prices are the way they are for the masses who aren't as well informed on the true costs associated of a finished boot from raw materials purchase until it's delivered to the consumer.
I started out many years ago just wearing Red Wing Heritage and Alden Indy boots. Years later, I got into the boot hobby and have a lot in the collection from all the US makers and a few imports. The big issue I have with the Indy Boot besides the price -vs- other better made boots is the spacing between the eyelets over the tongue. I am a "D" width and wear an 11.5 in them. Does not matter if I buy a "D" or "C" width as the eyelets are too close when laced. The way I have fixed this is by buying tongue pads. Like the ones Grant Stone sells. I put a pad further down on the inside of the tongue. Then I take a kiltie and cut it close to the holes. I cut another tongue pad to fit behind the kiltie. This gives me a respectable distance over the tongue when lacing. The pads are soft, and I do not feel them. The kiltie does not show either. I still have around 4 Indy Boots and a few other models in the collection. They are fine for a casual boot like all Alden boots but not for anything too rough. Very casual and office wear. I think that is who the company caters to anyway.
being finance controller for last 10 years - i kinda agree with that approach but not entirely, where are a lot of details behind 'brand margin' per shoe approach - as back office expenses are more or less fixed costs and volume of shoes you sell varies a lot. also not every company gross margin / ebit / net profit % is equal but since there is a lot to unpack i can not go into details in a youtube comment lol. anyways it was really entertaining and interesting approach with combining a bit of finance and boots, great job
As a fellow (albeit much less experienced) accountant and boot lover, this video really scratches an itch. More deep dives into the economics of boot making please!!
First comment. Just started the video. Ok, I own these Alden 405 boots. It means a lot to me, that they are made in the United States of America 🇺🇸! Waited 5 months for them. I love them! Most comfortable boots I have ever owned. I paid $680 U.S. Personally, I believe they are worth every penny. I get lots of compliments. I have worn them with slacks, and a sports coat, to work. I’m a CMO 😊 Finished the video! Wow! Excellent deep dive into the financials. This is a MBA level case study!
Very insightful! As a consumer, I have always equated cost directly connected to materials and labor. I was very surprised on how small of a percentage materials actually make up of the total selling price. Thank you for the breakdown very eye opening.
Excellent. Here I was all ready to get my popcorn and settle in for some Alden hot takes. But what I got was an incredibly logical review of exactly what you titled this video as. So how does Red Wing sell their MITUSA heritage boots for about 1/2 the price of Aldens? Maybe because their retailers (many of which are franchisees?) aren't the same kinds of upscale shops, often in high priced city centers, as Alden's retailers?
I think several reasons, but that’s one of them. Also the width of their offerings starting from cheap work boots allow volume to recover fixed costs across many items. Also having a vertically integrated model starting from their own tannery lowers a lot of transaction costs.
@@Bootlosophy Oh right, I forgot about SB Foot. And right, their overall volume really is massive. Thanks for the video, it was enjoyable to see reasoned logic and numbers used to describe value vs. the usual drama.
@@Bootlosophy100% on all counts, also just pure scale no other US manufacturer can touch. Plus their margins are much worse on Heritage than much lower retail priced work boots, which the workboot offset you mentioned helps make ok.
Aldens increase in boots was a direct response to the overwhelming popularity of the Indiana Jones movies. Absolute ridiculous price increases. GS makes a great boot also. They seen the popularity increase of not only heritage boots, but of course there own brand, and started upticking costs. Id bet in a year or two they will charge 500 bucks for there Diesels, lol. I mean, i own boots from these companies. I love them all. The price increases are just ridiculous though. And for the sneakers, i mean 1000 bucks😂. I believe the material costs you have for the sneakers are tremendously overpriced. Ive seen on other channels were most sneaker materials when bought in bulk are literally a few dollars..like 2-3 dollars per pair. Great video. 👍
Outstanding Master Class Teik!! This deep dive into the manufacturing costs is really helpful to understand how complex businesses are. In our beloved boot community, it can be easy to judge just by the look and feel of the boot, and undermine the immense mathematical game behind pricing. After watching your video, I have come to appreciate even more the effort that the heritage boot brands are making to deliver the best footwear out there; and my love for Alden is still intact (even with the leather board insoles -spit, spit 😂). Thanks Teik, you are the man!
What a interesing breakdown. Thank you, professor. It makes me wonder how everything from a $120 running show to a $2000 bespoke boot is costed out. And whose name you're paying extra for, all over the pricing spectrum!
This was so helpful, downright brilliant. Not only did you come to the cold-hearted bean counter's cost/profit analysis, you made the point plainly about how those costs pay for so many facets of the industry. I understand now that Alden could easily make more money and sell a comparable boot for considerably less by following your analysis. But at what price to the people who work at the factory, the retailers, and all of the folks who make a living because Alden does it the way it does? Will I pay $700 for Indys? I think to answer we should ask what kind of world do we want to live in? It's not quite profits or people but that really is the heart of the matter. I'll have to save my pennies but Alden is apparently running a business I can support.
Thank you! An interesting excursion into the topic of pricing. It kind of complements the famously devastating review (literally and figuratively) of these boots.
So many thought-provoking elements in this great video. Will direct-to-consumer be the business model of choice for all new manufacturers? What factors convince a customer to pay double the price for a product? How are some brands heavily into the direct-to-consumer model (Nicks, Whites,...) demanding Alden-like prices? And so on... I was interested in the scenario where Alden hypothetically wanted to produce their boots for prices comparable to Grant Stone or the like. Alden doesn't have to consider that option, as they seem to sell every boot and shoe they make. An alternative decision for Alden would be to uncompromisingly choose the highest quality materials and still sell every boot and shoe they make.
Another great video, Teik! Really enjoyed the deep dive into boot/shoe costing. The comparison was spot on, with a DTC boot, retail boot, and luxury brand sneaker.
Been through 3 pairs of Indy’s and they are NOT worth the $700 they currently are to me. We are in a golden age of heritage footwear and the competition is incredible. For much less I would go with Parkhurst, for the same amount more I would go with a MTO from Iron Boots. Theres just too many choices out there at this time to deal with Alden’s qc issues.
The insole is leather not leatherboard. Also, what Alden does to the insole is called "surface scouring." It's a process done to make the insole more flexible and to increase longevity. Shoe manufacturers have known for a very long time that full grain insoles tend to crack and fracture. This is all well known in shoe manufacturing and is well reported in shoe manufacturing textbooks. One textbook named, "Textbook of Footwear Manufacture" by J.H. Thornton published in 1953 goes into great detail about shoe manufacturing.
Fantastic video! As someone trained as an engineer, all of the different costs make sense, but I'd never thought about them as a whole before. That was greatly appreciated! My father, also an engineer, had a very simplistic take on the costing of products: Alden's cost $700 because that is what people are willing to pay for them. Same for Gucci or Grant Stone or whomever else. Something that also works into the calculus of cost that I'd think would be much harder to quantify: likely I can walking into an Alden store today and walk out with a pair of boots. Grant Stone's shipping takes, what? A week maybe? Then add someone like Bordon into the mix - for sure, a much better boot value, but you have to wait many months for your order to arrive, and even if you reach our to the staff for sizing assistance, there is a little bit of a risk there. I will say that Bordon got my sizing spot on, and I do love my Tukano 2.0's! (a second pair should ship to me any week now) I'd love to see a similar analysis on boots made by Origin. Probably slightly lower materials costs (good leather I'm sure, but not Horween), a USA factory with higher than average rent/ultilities costs, a direct-to-consumer sales model so no store costs, and what seems like a lean and mean management structure. You know, thinking about it, it's probably close to the Grant Stone case you presented, but with higher rent/utilities which I then thinks works out being pretty close to what Origin sells their boots for? VERY VERY interesting. Like I said, I'm an engineer. BUT, I will say one of my most fascinating classes outside my engineering studies was a course in Economic Geography...so I do have some enjoyment of cost accounting like this.
Thank you for putting this video together. I’m not an accountant, but I do a fair amount of cost accounting litigation. It’s tricky work, and I find that a lot of people (including judges) have trouble wrapping their heads around price vs. cost and cost elements.
I think my last set of Alden boots will be my last. 4th pair in twenty years. The last pair collapsed after about 15 months. I have recently purchased some clones from Luos Jiett. So far so good.
I hear the Alden QC has deteriorated - how many Aldens have you had, over how many years, and what’s your experience of the standard over those years you’ve bought them?
I’ve had a couple of pairs of 405’s,404’s and 403’s, great boots, I prefer the 403’s. I think they’re great, they look cool and they’re well made. I’d say they should be priced a little less but they’re a niche market boot, so if you want them you’re well aware of the price and you’re probably ok with it. I always buy mine on shoe mart.
Love the video Teik, you have a good sense of humor and seem to love the community you're very much involved in. The hat toss in honor of Carl and the way you don't show any jealousy or hate to your "rival" boot youtubers, really shows your character. Not to mention, you've gotten this country boy from Kentucky to start saying "US 20 dollars" whenever someone asks the price of an item😂 May you and your family have a safe and wonderful day.
Loved the video and a snapshot into your profession and life ....long time subsriber and will continue to watch as long as you will continue to make content !
Very informative video, Teik. Thank you! My orthopedist was sporting a pair of 403’s a few weeks ago. I had never seen a pair in person before. They looked amazing. Alas, yet another boot manufacturer that doesn’t offer boots in my size (15D). Love your channel!
Helpful and insightful, especially how you went about this step by step. But the fixed costs allocated will vary quite significantly across different volume.. But in the ballpark for sure!
Thank you for this deep analysis! I've been wondering, too, about the cost/added value of Alden offering so many sizes in the Indy line. I recenlty purchased a pair of RW Iron Rangers and noticed not only the brutal break-in but the skimpy sizing options.
Great video. Thanks for showing how the financial side of the boot business works. The logic used here applies to just about every retail /wholesale business. The business risks taken by both big and small business enterprises are not well understood by much of the general public. Thanks again Teik.
Kudos brother !! I'm a brand manager and I attest to every word that was uttered in this video. Best video on the footwear business you can find anywhere. Great job. Yes business is cruel and bottom lines matter .
I went to medical school in Boston. I think if you haven’t lived in New England it may be challenging to really appreciate the meaning of Alden shoes. I recall at a medical conference a speaker said “a lot of good medical information comes from New England but not much gets it”. That may be truer for the shoe industry as well. Considering that Alden is the ONLY New England shoe company that still has not changed what they do and are still in business. As you know there were many shoe companies in this area along with textile mills and lots of manufacturing. Who knows who is currently in charge of this family owned company. Perhaps is still run by the senior patriarch who still uses a landline phone. Obviously the company is not run by young tech savvy business types. The fact that the company managed to survive so many trends including the current anti-formal trend I’m surprised they are still breathing. I think your business calculations do not take into consideration that small family owned companies don’t always follow best business practices. They more often follow personal practices. That means they may choose to offer things like pensions. Old school. My understanding is that the company was recently swindled out of millions of dollars that was long terms savings. This was indeed unfortunate but it tells us the company is wise enough to realize that there may be unfavorable trends and their mission is to always survive the storm. And survive the storm they have. I think Alden makes their decisions not based on your calculations but rather because that’s simply the way they do it which has not changed for what is now probably the third or fourth generation of management. I don’t think you are going to be able to change how Alden runs their business. I guess people in the future will know which company survives and which does not. To me I’m happy to pay to support the legend that Alden is. I’m always happy to support American manufacturing. I will always choose to not support made in china though I recognize it’s a loosing battle.
What’s confusing is that brands will intentionally use worse materials to save a dollar, when materials cost is a small portion of the overall sale, and ruin their own reputation.
I feel like it would be worth doing the math, looking at how much it would cost to use better materials, and how much that could raise the final price. Because that's what alden needs to do.
@@thepropolys this video detailed the opposite and made a good point in doing so. Sometimes a good presentation is almost prompting the audience to say "tell me more!" , so I was saying tell me more.
@@sorrywrongnumber5280 I see what you mean. I was under the impression that the increased cost in materials would simply be added to the materials cost.
Awesome video Teik. Very informative, I've always been curious about what it actually costs Alden to make their boots. Also, great choice for the other two brands to compare Alden to.
Very interesting video! It sounds about right, based on a few years in retail, and your estimate got impressively close to actual retail prices! My first thought was that retailers ought to accept lower percentages(though larger sums) of gain on high-cost shoes but then I realised that people don't buy Ferraris in the same type of showroom where they buy Fords. Nice Showrooms and welltrained salesmen do not come cheap.
@@Bootlosophy that's all..? hm.. seemed like more.., maybe not counting the video 'shorts' .., and, I suppose I'm kind of factoring in how often you've used it as a reference point.. definitely would like a darker 405 calf or a cordovan pair.. I wish they did the Tanker boot on the Tru-balance last.. i can often find cordovan Alden Tankers on ebay.. not only the last, but I'm equally curious about the neocork sole.. wheras most of the other Aldens outsoles are mini commando or leather.., I just want them with rolls.., not cracky/creases.. you tend to have nice roll breaks in most of your collection i've noticed.. any secret to that? I've found conditioning to only increase wrinkling lately.. so likely being oversaturated.. anyhow,, thanks for your hard work and replies!
yeah, they are expensive, too expensive but comfy as. I never found a more comfortable boot and I really tried, so now I own several pair, 2 of those in the workshop, no sore feet since years. so for me money well invested. amazing video as usual
Hi Teik one of the main reasons I buy Alden is because they are made in the USA. If they just went to direct to consumer and still manufacture in New England, how much will that bring the price down? You’re in Australia and you have RM Williams. I don’t believe there’s a country near you like a Mexico. Let’s say hypothetically there was and RM decided to manufacture in Mexico. What kind of reaction would it be from the RM community?
Great presentation! Also, impeccable timing. I just received a pair of 405, factory 2nds from shoe mart, at a 250 dollar discount. Having trouble deciding whether to keep them or not!
Great video thank you. I have pair of 405s and really like them. Really seems like the direct to consumer model is the way to cut final pricing. However at the end of the day profit for the boot makers seems very similar. Alden is a local company supporting the community and the local economy. There is value in that and the unique aspects of their design. If I understood correctly with Gucci you are paying for branding and lavish office space. Not a good value proposition from a consumer's standpoint. Compare Whites to Alden. Seems like Whites would have higher (slightly) material costs, but lower overhead and marketing (assumption). They cost to consumers is pretty. close. However, the quality of Whites is by far greater. (I have a pair of Whites Original 350 Cruiser) and there is no comparison. The Whites is so much nicer. Though before break in the Alden is more comfortable.
How does Nike stack up in this list? It's a global company with in theory similar costs to Gucci, but I would suggest (maybe wrongly, I don't know sneakers) that a $70 pair of nikes has similar material and construction to the $1000 Gucci shoes. I'm trying to imagine where the Nike's would fall on the chart at 22:10 but can't. Does that mean the difference in price is purely subsidizing Gucci's nice offices and expensive marketing?
Every consumer good has a low and high end of prices. If you can afford it, you decide if you want to buy it. Some drive a used car. Some drive a luxury car. Why complain about a Cadillac?
If material costs are similar between brands like Alden and Grant Stone, I’ll assume this is true for Thursdays and Allen Edmonds too. In Oh’s example, he showed the cost of labor differing based on geographical region, not skill. I’ll therefore assume that skill is the same between regions. That said, I feel as though the Allen Edmonds Higgins Mill is of better quality overall than the Thursday Vanguard (I purchased the Vanguard French Roast brand new but I don’t own the Higgins Mill; I’ve only salivated over it at the AE store). Given this, is the higher quality I see in AE only in my imagination or is the Higgins Mill objectively better?
Amazing video, fascinating, fact-based take on pricing. One question on your advice as a management consultant: How much is Alden's base and the prospective customer willing to pay the $700 and not, say, Thursday Boot-level prices? In other words, if Alden literally cheapens the brand, will they also figuratively cheapen themselves in the minds of consumers? It's that old "if it costs a lot more, it must be worth it (or is more prestigious to own)" factor that isn't in your analysis. Or, put another way, is selling more boots at a much cheaper price worth the risk in the long run when you already have folks willing to pay much more?
I think for sure there’s a “name” element to why people buy something. In this niche though, I suspect as many will buy because it got cheaper as those that stop buying.
Fabulous video, I really enjoyed that one. Wouldn't it be great if someone from Alden or Grant Stone or Gucci (yeah right!) was watching and could corroborate or correct your estimates!
On a personal note, how do you feel about the cost difference in labor between the opposing sides of the Pacific Ocean? I'm the somewhat-rare American who wants everyone in factories to make a good wage for working hard. I would rather buy well-made items, at a higher cost, by well-appreciated employees than just buy something at a humility-undercutting bargin. Has your experience allowed you to see the realities of the "cost-savings" that the average American sees from foreign manufactured goods? If so, could you share experiences and opinions. That would mean a lot for a guy like me who just wants to work hard for nice things, and to "do the right thing."
Great job and I love your videos as always! I am curious where the 405 used in this video came from. Essentially I know the 405 leather shade has changed through the years. I had an opportunity to purchase a pair back in 2020 with the more pumpkin shade (didn't really like it then) while working in PA, and chose the 403 instead. Now I wish I had as that particular color grew on me. With that said though, I love the shade of this model and would love to grab a pair. Lastly, I've also noticed that the leather shades of the 405 seem a little different on a few different websites. Is that really the case, if so why, or is it just me and my incorrect perspective. Please let me know your thoughts and thanks in advance ;)
I don't recall if you mentioned it in the video. Do you know which location this reviewed pair came from. Do different companies selling these get their leathers from different places, or do most all come from Chicago?
This video deserves better title - not 100% tight to Alden Indys - I think some people not interested in Indys video might decide not to watch it - not knowing about other valuables included in the video. Great job!
@@ryanpiyo98 totally not my point. Video is very informative about industry manufacturing and retail costs, you can watch it and abstract these mechanisms, numbers to have a better understanding of industry as a whole (the data was derived from industry, not alden specifically) My point is exactly opposite to what you’re saying - you can be totally not interested in alden and still find this video interesting.
@@matiitplYes but which boot company is infamous for seemingly overcharging their products with less than ideal materials? If you asked for a breakdown for the various boot companies, Alden would be one of the top few, if not the most requested. If his video was titled "Breakdown of pricing in the boot industry" vs his current choice of title, I dont think there would be as many people watching or interested. I've spread the word about this video because of the Alden hook he uses. So yes the point you're making would make the title more accurate but I don't think that's the biggest consideration in CZcams marketing.
Alden charges that amount because people are willing to pay. Much like any other free market product. When you buy a car for $50,000, you are not getting $50,000 worth of metal, glass, plastic, and so forth. You are paying because the seller wants you to pay that much. You are paying for the branding. No purse is worth thousands of dollars either. Retail price has nothing to do with manufacturing costs or value of ingredients. When I bought Allen Edmonds for $250, these sold for $350. Allen Edmonds now sell for $500, and these sell for $700.
Materials “X” amount of dollars… Design and comfort priceless and this is where other makers that are considerably less will never compete on the same level as Alden. To take that a step further boots that are priced the same or even more also fall short in terms of the two items mentioned above. Also, in your theoretical “I’m going to help/consult for Alden world” why would they want to do what you’re suggesting? They don’t need to cut their cost. currently their boots and shoes sell at a very high rate. They don’t need to compete with Grant Stone. Their competition is companies like Viberg which are even more expensive. Companies like Alden and Viberg have something that none of these other companies can get through better pricing, which is incredible lasts, patterns, legacy and a cult following.
I’d be shocked if manufacturing costs in China (versus Massachusetts wages Alden pays) are only 20 percent lower. It wouldn’t be worth the hassle of trans Pacific shipping. I’d estimate labor and materials at low 100s.
I bought my first pair of Alden factory seconds from a reputable dealer a couple of years ago. Even with the discount they were not worth the price I paid. The CXL uppers started to badly crack after wearing them for just a few hours. I've never seen anything like it. I own multiple belts, notebook covers, footwear and wallets in CXL. I've never seen anything like the problems with the leather on the Alden's. On closer inspection it was paper thin as well. Maybe they sat in some extremely dry storeroom for years before being shipped to me. I don't know and don't really care. I will never buy another pair of Alden's. I opted to buy a pair of Parkhurst Niagara boots instead. They were samples so I got them at a reasonable price. I had a cobbler resole them with a leather midsole/outsole plus mini lug protectors. After all that it was still cheaper than a new pair of Indy's at the retail price.
My CXL factory seconds came with thick and supple leather that has lasted years. I’ve worn them in bone dry deserts, most recently this month, and there’s been no cracking. Your experience was freakishly unusual. CXL is an oily, fatty leather that is difficult to “crack.”
@@jtee5957 Like I said I own a bunch of products made with Horween leathers. Many of them are in CXL. Some of them have gone years without conditioning and are still supple and have plenty of pull-up. I bought mine from Shoemart the largest online retailer of Alden products. So I don't know what happened.
Indy boots are comfortable. However, the quality or material is not good for the price. Therefore, it feels expensive. It doesn't feel like this in other Alden shoes.
Went to a Melb Store named double monk. snobbish customer service vibes aside, they have beautiful collection of shoes. 🥰 Was after a crocket & jones tassel loafers but had to see the Islay boots while there. Alden boots didnt pop out to me but maybe need a second look to appreciate. 🤔 The price didnt help in that regard. Haha
I came expecting a talk about boot materials (or lack of). Instead I got a 20 minute talk on why you should (probably) price yourself out of your own market if the market no longer serves you. One thing about Alden that I notice contrasts it from other bootmakers that people like us love is that Alden has a lot of bloat compared to other bootmakers. Unsurprising for a company pursuing growth to be sure, but there's always a market saturation point that a lot of companies miss by a country mile. IMO the closest comparable bootmaker to Alden is Wolverine, and I don't think I need to tell anyone how bad the newer 1000 miles are value wise.
The Gucci sneakers are also arguably a form of "Veblen goods" and would sell fewer if they were cheaper. In addition buy enough Gucci sneakers and other routine stuff from their stores eventually qualifies you as one of the privileged customers allowed (after a suitable amount of time on the waiting list) to buy the ridiculously overpriced leather goods that you really covet. The luxury goods companies have perfected the art of massively increasing their prices over time and at the same time increasing demand at an even greater rate. Returning to the real world, one factor you didn't mention though it is less relevant for premium footwear, is the amount of stock that sells for full price versus sales and discounts. In addition you can see how your calculations work when it comes to the footwear companies that sell through stores and also now sell direct. Usually in the sales discontinued models and colours may go for perhaps discounts of 20% to 30% maximum from a shoe shop whereas from the manufacturer's e commerce website you can go as low as 50% at best though more likely 40%. The manufacturer still has some of the shop overheads of staff to deal with orders, postage costs, returns costs, credit card processing costs etc. but from a single warehouse site away from expensive retail sites.
@@Bootlosophy I believe this is more relevant to the sports and fashion clothes industry but I remember reading a long time ago that expectations were that you would sell thirty percent at full price, forty percent at a gradually increasing discount and that the remainder would either be scrapped or sold off at well below cost price to end up at TJ Maxx or internet discounters like MandM. In footwear the big sportswear companies introduce a new version of their shoe ranges at a minimum every year with colour or other cosmetic changes every six month, for this reason, constantly introducing new products to be sold at full price. This to a lesser extent also used to apply to certain consumer electronics like TVs which seemed to have model updates every year though this does seem to be changing with sustainability legislation and pressure from Governments.
I cant believe you used the forbidden word ‘leatherboard’ in this video like 4 times. *spit cough hack spit*. Arent you afraid of getting de-monetized? This is a super fascinating video, especially seeing the material costs in the overall price. I know every brand gets vilified for selling out and making materials ‘worse’. But it seems like thats a small portion compared to the retail cut or even the manufacturing cut.
That is not issue. Issue is that worth of those Boots is not even close to 700$. Solution is, if somebody is not capable to made something worth 700$ BUT they are capable to sell for 700$(but surely less and less) and with constant complaint's from customers THEN: >Replace lether board midsole with leather, replace insole with full grain leather and charge little more and everybody will be happy.< Everybody can make good Boots for 1000$, issue is only can you sell it....and Alden can. Because now, fact is that Alden sell piece of shit for double of price and it is right to say that they scam people and such brand deserves to go down. Otherwise Alden would sell expensive Boots, but "worth" the price.(not really, but ok).
@Bootlosophy I think that's what he's trying to say. Since to him it is already so pricey, they might as well raise it but upgrade the materials. Doing that will not raise just the manufacturing cost, everyone else will want bigger % too, so it's likely going to cause price increases of $200 at least for the consumer. And I think it's true, if you compare the materials to other $1000 boot or shoe companies, if the materials are at least comparable, that can help justify the price. You don't hear people say they would buy Edward Green or Graziano & Girling shoes but only at a discount (hard to find them anyway). Those companies charge premium prices with premium materials and premium craftsmanship. Alden are almost at premium prices with less than ideal materials and standard workmanship (average level finishing). So it is something to consider. I personally would never buy the Alden Indy. I understand the pricing, but with such strong competition in the 350-500usd bracket, it's hard to justify spending double the money for not double the boot. Thank you for this video, very insightful!
Here are the technical reasons why I'm a Alden Indy fan.
First I'm in my 70s and have worn a lot of business shoes, casual shoes and boots throughout my life. Had my first pair of work boots when I was 8 yrs old... and many pairs since.
A boot is a system. Each part has a function in context with the rest of the parts in order to achieve the goals of the boot. The Indy boot is an orthopedic boot built on a patented orthopedic last, designed to keep your foot in a healthy anatomical position. It has a wide toe box giving space for bunions or other deformities, and it narrows down at the instep and heel to produce a tall, long and firm heel cup.
Other parts of the orthopedic system include the cork midsole, the well designed metal shank, and the Thomas heel.
Cork, which seems to be missing from many boots, is buoyant, elastic, breathable and water resistant. It is also very durable. A cork footbed molds around your foot to give orthopedic support and comfort. It's one of the reasons Indy boots "break in" in a matter of days or a couple of weeks and stay comfortable over the life of the boot.
The Indy boot metal shank is made of tempered steel, properly contoured and triple ribbed for strength. Too many boot makers use a thick piece of leather or wood for the shank. Simply cannot compete with a properly designed metal shank for arch support and long lasting comfort.
The Thomas heel (the curved front of the heel) adds rear and midfoot medial support. Good for any foot, but especially for people with excessively pronated feet.
This is why people love their Indy boots. Quick to break in, very supportive regardless of foot issues, and the orthopedic properties force you to walk correctly, making it possible to work all day in them very comfortably. And they are NOT overly heavy. Heavy boots are not good for your ankles, legs and lower back. That's why it's important for any boot maker to achieve the goals of the boot, at the LEAST possible weight.
I have arthritis now, and no longer wear any shoes other than my two pair of Indy boots. They reduce significantly the pain in my feet, legs and back. Since I live in Portland, no one cares when I wear them to the Symphony.
Alden Indy Boots are simply better engineered than any other boot.
Thank youi for reading my comments.
My 405 in calf without a doubt are the most comfortable boots that I own.
Hahahaha love the hat toss brother!!! Great video
I missed!
@@BootlosophyCarl always misses too! At least from a bunch of his videos that I watched. There could be one or two video where he nailed it but I haven't found it 😂
@@kato2395 oh yeah, theres like 3 on-targets ive seen by Carl in my years of watching
@@Bootlosophy you can take some cues from Carl Murawski 😂
@@Bootlosophy 0/1 is pretty much 3/1000000.
Prof. Oh's introduction to management consulting and shoe manufacturing (plus a whole lot more)! A better, more entertaining class than experienced at most business schools. Thank you for the education!
I have owned several pairs of Alden shoes, and personally, I don't feel that the price is worth it for me. However, this video was so excellently done that it has given me a greater appreciation for the brand and a better understanding of what I'm actually paying for. Well done!
One of the best videos you've made and probably the most informative video on the pricing of high end footwear for boot guys.
I love how you used your expertise for this video. No one else could have done this quite like you. We appreciate it
As a bean counter myself (and an Alden Addict) I can really appreciate this video. This is superb ! Thanks for this analysis. This takes your channel to another level !
I think this might have been my favorite of your videos so far. Thanks for the deep dive and perspective on the Indy’s.
It really gives alot more insight to the video that inspired the Alden Indy debate and controversy!
I like this kind of video. Thank you. People who never ran a business always assume that businesses make so much money that they do not know what to do with it. They do not consider all the other expenses businesses have other than the cost of goods sold. So, this is highly informative.
TLDR: cost cutting is often used to boost short term profits because it results in immediate increase in profits, but can take years to result in negative consequences for a brand.
Teik, I too am a cold-blooded accountant. Great presentation! I would like to add something from my college days that really turned on the lightbulb for me as to why companies go so aggressively for cost cutting.
In your model, Alden makes about 13% net profit or about $3.75 million. Let’s say that management/the board set a budget for next year to make $5 million of net profit.
First scenario: make it up on volume (I.e. sell more)
Assuming the $20 per pair in your model, that means they have to sell an additional 62,500 shoes, an increase of 33% on sales. While not impossible, increasing sales by 33% on an established brand is very difficult to achieve in the real world and will likely take years of effort to finally be realized.
Second scenario: cut costs to improve margins.
Every dollar not spent on costs is a dollar still in the bank , and ultimately kept as profit. In order to increase profits by $1.25 million, that means cutting costs by $6.67 per pair, using your original estimate of 187,500 pairs. In your model you estimated that the materials cost difference per pair was $10 between Alden and GS ($50 vs $60). So, whether they could find another $6.67 of savings, I don’t know. But if they were still paying that extra $10 on materials that GS is paying, their profit would be cut in half down to $1.875 million!
Third scenario: raise prices
If they need an extra $1.25 million of profit on 187,500 pairs, that equates to the same $6.67 per pair. But that is at the brand level, so factoring in the retailer’s cut, that $13.33 price increase to the consumer. However, some customers might get upset by a price increase, and you will lose some sales numbers. This has all sorts of knock-on effects, like unsold inventory buybacks, decrease in relationship with retailers, decrease in brand presence, etc. So, to make it worth the negative effects, the final price might increase by $20-25.
Now, in any good business they are looking to do all three things at any given time. Companies always want to sell the most product, at the highest price possible, and purchased/produced at the lowest possible cost.
Each of those objectives increases the bottom line. But I wanted to highlight that, most of the time, the easiest way (in the sense that all you have to do is change the price tag) to pick up profit is to raise prices, but you get a lot of negative immediate consequences from raising prices, especially reduced sales and decrease in customer goodwill/loyalty. Increasing sales is a no-compromise way of boosting the bottom line, but is very hard (and expensive) to do in the real world and usually takes years of effort to see the difference. Cutting costs, however, is picked up on the bottom line almost immediately, and the negative consequences (if any - not every cost cut results in a quality decrease) can usually take years to be realized (customers might take years to realize that quality has declined). Hence, this is why companies so often go down the path of cost cutting and reducing quality - it boosts quarterly/annual profits now and takes years to bite them back.
Excellent! Superb expansion of the model
Nicely laid out. Alden has certainly not shied away from raising prices in recent years, whereas the decisions to cut costs on materials happened several years ago and it's just catching up to them now. Thanks so much for taking the time to write that out!!
This is such a good breakdown, always love a new perspective on the Indy🎉
THANK YOU for your knowledge Teik!!!! Amazing take on the business, something most people don't even think about!!
Thanks Rudy!
Before we’re even three minutes into the video I’m just going to say because of the last alone it’s worth it. I have my favorites in the boot world and because of TruBalance the Indy in all its make ups is unshakable from my list of Must Haves. If someone can dupe the last and the feeling of the internals then I’m all in. The insole and lasting board combo Alden uses is also a wild feeling. No break in no matter how many new pairs I’ve worn
P.S: the same analysis of Red Wing would be interesting. Their vertical integration seems to lead to insane consumer value.
I reckon it does!
I bought the Indys recently and I’m very very satisfied. I have wide feet, so the fit was even more important to me than for others. I also have a 17 year old cap toe Alden dress shoe that I will be wearing for a long long time more. Grant Stone wasn’t around back then. Grant Stone is a great company too. Considering the costs, I’m more than happy to keep Alden in business and also Grant Stone. For those that can’t afford Alden, there are lots of less expensive options these days.
"Cold blooded bean counter"... this phrase made my day! Great video Teikoh and a well made video on the breakdown on why prices are the way they are for the masses who aren't as well informed on the true costs associated of a finished boot from raw materials purchase until it's delivered to the consumer.
I started out many years ago just wearing Red Wing Heritage and Alden Indy boots. Years later, I got into the boot hobby and have a lot in the collection from all the US makers and a few imports. The big issue I have with the Indy Boot besides the price -vs- other better made boots is the spacing between the eyelets over the tongue. I am a "D" width and wear an 11.5 in them. Does not matter if I buy a "D" or "C" width as the eyelets are too close when laced. The way I have fixed this is by buying tongue pads. Like the ones Grant Stone sells. I put a pad further down on the inside of the tongue. Then I take a kiltie and cut it close to the holes. I cut another tongue pad to fit behind the kiltie. This gives me a respectable distance over the tongue when lacing. The pads are soft, and I do not feel them. The kiltie does not show either. I still have around 4 Indy Boots and a few other models in the collection. They are fine for a casual boot like all Alden boots but not for anything too rough. Very casual and office wear. I think that is who the company caters to anyway.
being finance controller for last 10 years - i kinda agree with that approach but not entirely, where are a lot of details behind 'brand margin' per shoe approach - as back office expenses are more or less fixed costs and volume of shoes you sell varies a lot.
also not every company gross margin / ebit / net profit % is equal but since there is a lot to unpack i can not go into details in a youtube comment lol.
anyways it was really entertaining and interesting approach with combining a bit of finance and boots, great job
As a fellow (albeit much less experienced) accountant and boot lover, this video really scratches an itch. More deep dives into the economics of boot making please!!
Mate, this is not only spot on in terms of the analysis but also delivered super well. Thank you for sharing!
First comment. Just started the video. Ok, I own these Alden 405 boots. It means a lot to me, that they are made in the United States of America 🇺🇸!
Waited 5 months for them.
I love them! Most comfortable boots I have ever owned. I paid $680 U.S. Personally, I believe they are worth every penny. I get lots of compliments. I have worn them with slacks, and a sports coat, to work. I’m a CMO 😊
Finished the video! Wow! Excellent deep dive into the financials. This is a MBA level case study!
Very insightful! As a consumer, I have always equated cost directly connected to materials and labor. I was very surprised on how small of a percentage materials actually make up of the total selling price. Thank you for the breakdown very eye opening.
Excellent. Here I was all ready to get my popcorn and settle in for some Alden hot takes. But what I got was an incredibly logical review of exactly what you titled this video as.
So how does Red Wing sell their MITUSA heritage boots for about 1/2 the price of Aldens? Maybe because their retailers (many of which are franchisees?) aren't the same kinds of upscale shops, often in high priced city centers, as Alden's retailers?
I think several reasons, but that’s one of them. Also the width of their offerings starting from cheap work boots allow volume to recover fixed costs across many items. Also having a vertically integrated model starting from their own tannery lowers a lot of transaction costs.
@@Bootlosophy Oh right, I forgot about SB Foot. And right, their overall volume really is massive. Thanks for the video, it was enjoyable to see reasoned logic and numbers used to describe value vs. the usual drama.
@@Bootlosophy100% on all counts, also just pure scale no other US manufacturer can touch. Plus their margins are much worse on Heritage than much lower retail priced work boots, which the workboot offset you mentioned helps make ok.
Aldens increase in boots was a direct response to the overwhelming popularity of the Indiana Jones movies. Absolute ridiculous price increases. GS makes a great boot also. They seen the popularity increase of not only heritage boots, but of course there own brand, and started upticking costs. Id bet in a year or two they will charge 500 bucks for there Diesels, lol. I mean, i own boots from these companies. I love them all. The price increases are just ridiculous though. And for the sneakers, i mean 1000 bucks😂. I believe the material costs you have for the sneakers are tremendously overpriced. Ive seen on other channels were most sneaker materials when bought in bulk are literally a few dollars..like 2-3 dollars per pair. Great video. 👍
Outstanding Master Class Teik!! This deep dive into the manufacturing costs is really helpful to understand how complex businesses are. In our beloved boot community, it can be easy to judge just by the look and feel of the boot, and undermine the immense mathematical game behind pricing.
After watching your video, I have come to appreciate even more the effort that the heritage boot brands are making to deliver the best footwear out there; and my love for Alden is still intact (even with the leather board insoles -spit, spit 😂). Thanks Teik, you are the man!
What a interesing breakdown. Thank you, professor. It makes me wonder how everything from a $120 running show to a $2000 bespoke boot is costed out. And whose name you're paying extra for, all over the pricing spectrum!
This was so helpful, downright brilliant. Not only did you come to the cold-hearted bean counter's cost/profit analysis, you made the point plainly about how those costs pay for so many facets of the industry. I understand now that Alden could easily make more money and sell a comparable boot for considerably less by following your analysis. But at what price to the people who work at the factory, the retailers, and all of the folks who make a living because Alden does it the way it does? Will I pay $700 for Indys? I think to answer we should ask what kind of world do we want to live in? It's not quite profits or people but that really is the heart of the matter. I'll have to save my pennies but Alden is apparently running a business I can support.
Really nice watching this channel grow
Thanks, mate
Thank you! An interesting excursion into the topic of pricing. It kind of complements the famously devastating review (literally and figuratively) of these boots.
Really appreciate the effort that went into this video. It provides great perspective.
To be honest out of all my boots the Indy’s are the most comfortable by far.
So many thought-provoking elements in this great video. Will direct-to-consumer be the business model of choice for all new manufacturers? What factors convince a customer to pay double the price for a product? How are some brands heavily into the direct-to-consumer model (Nicks, Whites,...) demanding Alden-like prices? And so on... I was interested in the scenario where Alden hypothetically wanted to produce their boots for prices comparable to Grant Stone or the like. Alden doesn't have to consider that option, as they seem to sell every boot and shoe they make. An alternative decision for Alden would be to uncompromisingly choose the highest quality materials and still sell every boot and shoe they make.
Thank You for sharing!
Another great video, Teik! Really enjoyed the deep dive into boot/shoe costing. The comparison was spot on, with a DTC boot, retail boot, and luxury brand sneaker.
Been through 3 pairs of Indy’s and they are NOT worth the $700 they currently are to me. We are in a golden age of heritage footwear and the competition is incredible. For much less I would go with Parkhurst, for the same amount more I would go with a MTO from Iron Boots. Theres just too many choices out there at this time to deal with Alden’s qc issues.
I have a pair of tankers in shell. The quality was awful for a $1000 boot. Never again
The insole is leather not leatherboard. Also, what Alden does to the insole is called "surface scouring." It's a process done to make the insole more flexible and to increase longevity. Shoe manufacturers have known for a very long time that full grain insoles tend to crack and fracture. This is all well known in shoe manufacturing and is well reported in shoe manufacturing textbooks. One textbook named, "Textbook of Footwear Manufacture" by J.H. Thornton published in 1953 goes into great detail about shoe manufacturing.
Fantastic video! As someone trained as an engineer, all of the different costs make sense, but I'd never thought about them as a whole before. That was greatly appreciated! My father, also an engineer, had a very simplistic take on the costing of products: Alden's cost $700 because that is what people are willing to pay for them. Same for Gucci or Grant Stone or whomever else.
Something that also works into the calculus of cost that I'd think would be much harder to quantify: likely I can walking into an Alden store today and walk out with a pair of boots. Grant Stone's shipping takes, what? A week maybe?
Then add someone like Bordon into the mix - for sure, a much better boot value, but you have to wait many months for your order to arrive, and even if you reach our to the staff for sizing assistance, there is a little bit of a risk there. I will say that Bordon got my sizing spot on, and I do love my Tukano 2.0's! (a second pair should ship to me any week now)
I'd love to see a similar analysis on boots made by Origin. Probably slightly lower materials costs (good leather I'm sure, but not Horween), a USA factory with higher than average rent/ultilities costs, a direct-to-consumer sales model so no store costs, and what seems like a lean and mean management structure. You know, thinking about it, it's probably close to the Grant Stone case you presented, but with higher rent/utilities which I then thinks works out being pretty close to what Origin sells their boots for?
VERY VERY interesting. Like I said, I'm an engineer. BUT, I will say one of my most fascinating classes outside my engineering studies was a course in Economic Geography...so I do have some enjoyment of cost accounting like this.
Thank you very much, really interesting and formative
Thank you for putting this video together. I’m not an accountant, but I do a fair amount of cost accounting litigation. It’s tricky work, and I find that a lot of people (including judges) have trouble wrapping their heads around price vs. cost and cost elements.
I really enjoyed the thorough pricing breakdown and comparison. Another informative and well done video!
I am a business analyst by trade and found this fascinating.
I think my last set of Alden boots will be my last. 4th pair in twenty years. The last pair collapsed after about 15 months. I have recently purchased some clones from Luos Jiett. So far so good.
I hear the Alden QC has deteriorated - how many Aldens have you had, over how many years, and what’s your experience of the standard over those years you’ve bought them?
My Alden Barrie shell boots are the most comfortable and slickest I own. I always thought the Indy boots were pretty hideous though!
I’ve had a couple of pairs of 405’s,404’s and 403’s, great boots, I prefer the 403’s. I think they’re great, they look cool and they’re well made. I’d say they should be priced a little less but they’re a niche market boot, so if you want them you’re well aware of the price and you’re probably ok with it. I always buy mine on shoe mart.
Love the video Teik, you have a good sense of humor and seem to love the community you're very much involved in.
The hat toss in honor of Carl and the way you don't show any jealousy or hate to your "rival" boot youtubers, really shows your character. Not to mention, you've gotten this country boy from Kentucky to start saying "US 20 dollars" whenever someone asks the price of an item😂
May you and your family have a safe and wonderful day.
Loved the video and a snapshot into your profession and life ....long time subsriber and will continue to watch as long as you will continue to make content !
Thank you!
What a great video, well done 👏
Excellent data-driven video! You rock, Teik!
Very informative video, Teik. Thank you! My orthopedist was sporting a pair of 403’s a few weeks ago. I had never seen a pair in person before. They looked amazing. Alas, yet another boot manufacturer that doesn’t offer boots in my size (15D). Love your channel!
Helpful and insightful, especially how you went about this step by step. But the fixed costs allocated will vary quite significantly across different volume.. But in the ballpark for sure!
Excellent video!
Thank you for this deep analysis! I've been wondering, too, about the cost/added value of Alden offering so many sizes in the Indy line. I recenlty purchased a pair of RW Iron Rangers and noticed not only the brutal break-in but the skimpy sizing options.
Great video. Thanks for showing how the financial side of the boot business works. The logic used here applies to just about every retail
/wholesale business. The business risks taken by both big and small business enterprises are not well understood by much of the general public. Thanks again Teik.
Incredibly interesting, what an education. Business is indeed hard, you’re right.
Kudos brother !! I'm a brand manager and I attest to every word that was uttered in this video. Best video on the footwear business you can find anywhere. Great job. Yes business is cruel and bottom lines matter .
Great video!
Next lesson we will cover actual to standard variances for trim and scrap waste.
I went to medical school in Boston. I think if you haven’t lived in New England it may be challenging to really appreciate the meaning of Alden shoes. I recall at a medical conference a speaker said “a lot of good medical information comes from New England but not much gets it”. That may be truer for the shoe industry as well. Considering that Alden is the ONLY New England shoe company that still has not changed what they do and are still in business. As you know there were many shoe companies in this area along with textile mills and lots of manufacturing.
Who knows who is currently in charge of this family owned company. Perhaps is still run by the senior patriarch who still uses a landline phone. Obviously the company is not run by young tech savvy business types. The fact that the company managed to survive so many trends including the current anti-formal trend I’m surprised they are still breathing.
I think your business calculations do not take into consideration that small family owned companies don’t always follow best business practices. They more often follow personal practices. That means they may choose to offer things like pensions. Old school.
My understanding is that the company was recently swindled out of millions of dollars that was long terms savings. This was indeed unfortunate but it tells us the company is wise enough to realize that there may be unfavorable trends and their mission is to always survive the storm. And survive the storm they have.
I think Alden makes their decisions not based on your calculations but rather because that’s simply the way they do it which has not changed for what is now probably the third or fourth generation of management.
I don’t think you are going to be able to change how Alden runs their business. I guess people in the future will know which company survives and which does not. To me I’m happy to pay to support the legend that Alden is. I’m always happy to support American manufacturing.
I will always choose to not support made in china though I recognize it’s a loosing battle.
Wow what a video!
Excellent analysis! Could you do the same for Viberg?
Insightful!
What’s confusing is that brands will intentionally use worse materials to save a dollar, when materials cost is a small portion of the overall sale, and ruin their own reputation.
Yeah, right?
I feel like it would be worth doing the math, looking at how much it would cost to use better materials, and how much that could raise the final price. Because that's what alden needs to do.
@@sorrywrongnumber5280 That's basically what this video detailed...
@@thepropolys this video detailed the opposite and made a good point in doing so. Sometimes a good presentation is almost prompting the audience to say "tell me more!" , so I was saying tell me more.
@@sorrywrongnumber5280 I see what you mean. I was under the impression that the increased cost in materials would simply be added to the materials cost.
This was brilliant. Thanks for the analysis.
Awesome video Teik. Very informative, I've always been curious about what it actually costs Alden to make their boots. Also, great choice for the other two brands to compare Alden to.
Very interesting video! It sounds about right, based on a few years in retail, and your estimate got impressively close to actual retail prices!
My first thought was that retailers ought to accept lower percentages(though larger sums) of gain on high-cost shoes but then I realised that people don't buy Ferraris in the same type of showroom where they buy Fords. Nice Showrooms and welltrained salesmen do not come cheap.
you must really like the Indy boot.., you have alot of content on it., i haven't got around to one yet,, but I can see the appeal a bit
Out of 200 plus videos I have 3 on the Indy 😄
@@Bootlosophy that's all..? hm.. seemed like more.., maybe not counting the video 'shorts' .., and, I suppose I'm kind of factoring in how often you've used it as a reference point.. definitely would like a darker 405 calf or a cordovan pair.. I wish they did the Tanker boot on the Tru-balance last.. i can often find cordovan Alden Tankers on ebay.. not only the last, but I'm equally curious about the neocork sole.. wheras most of the other Aldens outsoles are mini commando or leather.., I just want them with rolls.., not cracky/creases.. you tend to have nice roll breaks in most of your collection i've noticed.. any secret to that? I've found conditioning to only increase wrinkling lately.. so likely being oversaturated.. anyhow,, thanks for your hard work and replies!
yeah, they are expensive, too expensive but comfy as. I never found a more comfortable boot and I really tried, so now I own several pair, 2 of those in the workshop, no sore feet since years. so for me money well invested. amazing video as usual
Hi Teik one of the main reasons I buy Alden is because they are made in the USA.
If they just went to direct to consumer and still manufacture in New England, how much will that bring the price down?
You’re in Australia and you have RM Williams. I don’t believe there’s a country near you like a Mexico.
Let’s say hypothetically there was and RM decided to manufacture in Mexico. What kind of reaction would it be from the RM community?
Great presentation! Also, impeccable timing. I just received a pair of 405, factory 2nds from shoe mart, at a 250 dollar discount. Having trouble deciding whether to keep them or not!
Great video thank you. I have pair of 405s and really like them. Really seems like the direct to consumer model is the way to cut final pricing. However at the end of the day profit for the boot makers seems very similar. Alden is a local company supporting the community and the local economy. There is value in that and the unique aspects of their design. If I understood correctly with Gucci you are paying for branding and lavish office space. Not a good value proposition from a consumer's standpoint. Compare Whites to Alden. Seems like Whites would have higher (slightly) material costs, but lower overhead and marketing (assumption). They cost to consumers is pretty. close. However, the quality of Whites is by far greater. (I have a pair of Whites Original 350 Cruiser) and there is no comparison. The Whites is so much nicer. Though before break in the Alden is more comfortable.
That’s why you’re the best.. very informative…
Took a lot of notes thank you
How does Nike stack up in this list? It's a global company with in theory similar costs to Gucci, but I would suggest (maybe wrongly, I don't know sneakers) that a $70 pair of nikes has similar material and construction to the $1000 Gucci shoes. I'm trying to imagine where the Nike's would fall on the chart at 22:10 but can't. Does that mean the difference in price is purely subsidizing Gucci's nice offices and expensive marketing?
Every consumer good has a low and high end of prices. If you can afford it, you decide if you want to buy it. Some drive a used car. Some drive a luxury car. Why complain about a Cadillac?
If material costs are similar between brands like Alden and Grant Stone, I’ll assume this is true for Thursdays and Allen Edmonds too. In Oh’s example, he showed the cost of labor differing based on geographical region, not skill. I’ll therefore assume that skill is the same between regions. That said, I feel as though the Allen Edmonds Higgins Mill is of better quality overall than the Thursday Vanguard (I purchased the Vanguard French Roast brand new but I don’t own the Higgins Mill; I’ve only salivated over it at the AE store).
Given this, is the higher quality I see in AE only in my imagination or is the Higgins Mill objectively better?
Great video sir!!
Amazing video, fascinating, fact-based take on pricing. One question on your advice as a management consultant: How much is Alden's base and the prospective customer willing to pay the $700 and not, say, Thursday Boot-level prices? In other words, if Alden literally cheapens the brand, will they also figuratively cheapen themselves in the minds of consumers? It's that old "if it costs a lot more, it must be worth it (or is more prestigious to own)" factor that isn't in your analysis. Or, put another way, is selling more boots at a much cheaper price worth the risk in the long run when you already have folks willing to pay much more?
I think for sure there’s a “name” element to why people buy something. In this niche though, I suspect as many will buy because it got cheaper as those that stop buying.
Interesting analysis
Fabulous video, I really enjoyed that one.
Wouldn't it be great if someone from Alden or Grant Stone or Gucci (yeah right!) was watching and could corroborate or correct your estimates!
Would be fascinating! Or even disagree!
On a personal note, how do you feel about the cost difference in labor between the opposing sides of the Pacific Ocean?
I'm the somewhat-rare American who wants everyone in factories to make a good wage for working hard. I would rather buy well-made items, at a higher cost, by well-appreciated employees than just buy something at a humility-undercutting bargin.
Has your experience allowed you to see the realities of the "cost-savings" that the average American sees from foreign manufactured goods? If so, could you share experiences and opinions.
That would mean a lot for a guy like me who just wants to work hard for nice things, and to "do the right thing."
Great job and I love your videos as always! I am curious where the 405 used in this video came from. Essentially I know the 405 leather shade has changed through the years. I had an opportunity to purchase a pair back in 2020 with the more pumpkin shade (didn't really like it then) while working in PA, and chose the 403 instead. Now I wish I had as that particular color grew on me. With that said though, I love the shade of this model and would love to grab a pair. Lastly, I've also noticed that the leather shades of the 405 seem a little different on a few different websites. Is that really the case, if so why, or is it just me and my incorrect perspective. Please let me know your thoughts and thanks in advance ;)
Yes, they have changed the “pumpkin” 405 leather several times. This one is browner and is from Horween.
I don't recall if you mentioned it in the video. Do you know which location this reviewed pair came from.
Do different companies selling these get their leathers from different places, or do most all come from Chicago?
This video deserves better title - not 100% tight to Alden Indys - I think some people not interested in Indys video might decide not to watch it - not knowing about other valuables included in the video.
Great job!
But Alden is the focus of the video. So if you're not interested in Alden then just don't watch it?
@@ryanpiyo98 totally not my point. Video is very informative about industry manufacturing and retail costs, you can watch it and abstract these mechanisms, numbers to have a better understanding of industry as a whole (the data was derived from industry, not alden specifically)
My point is exactly opposite to what you’re saying - you can be totally not interested in alden and still find this video interesting.
@@matiitplYes but which boot company is infamous for seemingly overcharging their products with less than ideal materials? If you asked for a breakdown for the various boot companies, Alden would be one of the top few, if not the most requested. If his video was titled "Breakdown of pricing in the boot industry" vs his current choice of title, I dont think there would be as many people watching or interested. I've spread the word about this video because of the Alden hook he uses.
So yes the point you're making would make the title more accurate but I don't think that's the biggest consideration in CZcams marketing.
Alden charges that amount because people are willing to pay. Much like any other free market product. When you buy a car for $50,000, you are not getting $50,000 worth of metal, glass, plastic, and so forth. You are paying because the seller wants you to pay that much. You are paying for the branding. No purse is worth thousands of dollars either.
Retail price has nothing to do with manufacturing costs or value of ingredients.
When I bought Allen Edmonds for $250, these sold for $350. Allen Edmonds now sell for $500, and these sell for $700.
Materials “X” amount of dollars… Design and comfort priceless and this is where other makers that are considerably less will never compete on the same level as Alden. To take that a step further boots that are priced the same or even more also fall short in terms of the two items mentioned above.
Also, in your theoretical “I’m going to help/consult for Alden world” why would they want to do what you’re suggesting? They don’t need to cut their cost. currently their boots and shoes sell at a very high rate. They don’t need to compete with Grant Stone. Their competition is companies like Viberg which are even more expensive.
Companies like Alden and Viberg have something that none of these other companies can get through better pricing, which is incredible lasts, patterns, legacy and a cult following.
I went to watch cartoons (Joking). A fascinating, well-thought out, and well-presented video.
🤣🤣🤣
This is a great crash corse in Cost Accounting. I also think that Alden should use better materials and methods and raise prices accordingly.
Whoa! That’s not what I’m saying! $700 is good enough! 😂😂😂
@@Bootlosophy Lol. I would personally be willing to pay a little more to do away with the leather board and other less than ideal components.
this is the best powerpoint for boots on the Internet! The trolls will have a fit
🤣🤣
I’d be shocked if manufacturing costs in China (versus Massachusetts wages Alden pays) are only 20 percent lower. It wouldn’t be worth the hassle of trans Pacific shipping. I’d estimate labor and materials at low 100s.
so Alden should go consumer direct ?
I bought my first pair of Alden factory seconds from a reputable dealer a couple of years ago. Even with the discount they were not worth the price I paid. The CXL uppers started to badly crack after wearing them for just a few hours. I've never seen anything like it. I own multiple belts, notebook covers, footwear and wallets in CXL. I've never seen anything like the problems with the leather on the Alden's. On closer inspection it was paper thin as well. Maybe they sat in some extremely dry storeroom for years before being shipped to me. I don't know and don't really care. I will never buy another pair of Alden's. I opted to buy a pair of Parkhurst Niagara boots instead. They were samples so I got them at a reasonable price. I had a cobbler resole them with a leather midsole/outsole plus mini lug protectors. After all that it was still cheaper than a new pair of Indy's at the retail price.
My CXL factory seconds came with thick and supple leather that has lasted years. I’ve worn them in bone dry deserts, most recently this month, and there’s been no cracking. Your experience was freakishly unusual. CXL is an oily, fatty leather that is difficult to “crack.”
@@jtee5957 Like I said I own a bunch of products made with Horween leathers. Many of them are in CXL. Some of them have gone years without conditioning and are still supple and have plenty of pull-up. I bought mine from Shoemart the largest online retailer of Alden products. So I don't know what happened.
Indy boots are comfortable. However, the quality or material is not good for the price. Therefore, it feels expensive. It doesn't feel like this in other Alden shoes.
So, yeah, to buy Grant Stone is rationally a better choice.
Went to a Melb Store named double monk. snobbish customer service vibes aside, they have beautiful collection of shoes. 🥰
Was after a crocket & jones tassel loafers but had to see the Islay boots while there.
Alden boots didnt pop out to me but maybe need a second look to appreciate. 🤔
The price didnt help in that regard. Haha
I’ve been there. I felt I had to say sorry every time I asked a question. 😂😂😂
@@Bootlosophy Totally agree with these two comments!!!
Can we get more management consultant's takes?
Maybe we can ?:) i know it is possible to get financials for english shoe makers and see how their financials look like! Maybe a trio to that laine?
I came expecting a talk about boot materials (or lack of). Instead I got a 20 minute talk on why you should (probably) price yourself out of your own market if the market no longer serves you. One thing about Alden that I notice contrasts it from other bootmakers that people like us love is that Alden has a lot of bloat compared to other bootmakers. Unsurprising for a company pursuing growth to be sure, but there's always a market saturation point that a lot of companies miss by a country mile. IMO the closest comparable bootmaker to Alden is Wolverine, and I don't think I need to tell anyone how bad the newer 1000 miles are value wise.
Unfortunately as an old, family run company, it’s likely to have layers of unnecessary expense and staff, simply due to “growth”.
The Gucci sneakers are also arguably a form of "Veblen goods" and would sell fewer if they were cheaper.
In addition buy enough Gucci sneakers and other routine stuff from their stores eventually qualifies you as one of the privileged customers allowed (after a suitable amount of time on the waiting list) to buy the ridiculously overpriced leather goods that you really covet.
The luxury goods companies have perfected the art of massively increasing their prices over time and at the same time increasing demand at an even greater rate.
Returning to the real world, one factor you didn't mention though it is less relevant for premium footwear, is the amount of stock that sells for full price versus sales and discounts.
In addition you can see how your calculations work when it comes to the footwear companies that sell through stores and also now sell direct.
Usually in the sales discontinued models and colours may go for perhaps discounts of 20% to 30% maximum from a shoe shop whereas from the manufacturer's e commerce website you can go as low as 50% at best though more likely 40%. The manufacturer still has some of the shop overheads of staff to deal with orders, postage costs, returns costs, credit card processing costs etc. but from a single warehouse site away from expensive retail sites.
Allen Edmonds is a great example of what you speak - never buy a Higgins Mill full price when sales are a plenty!
@@Bootlosophy I believe this is more relevant to the sports and fashion clothes industry but I remember reading a long time ago that expectations were that you would sell thirty percent at full price, forty percent at a gradually increasing discount and that the remainder would either be scrapped or sold off at well below cost price to end up at TJ Maxx or internet discounters like MandM.
In footwear the big sportswear companies introduce a new version of their shoe ranges at a minimum every year with colour or other cosmetic changes every six month, for this reason, constantly introducing new products to be sold at full price.
This to a lesser extent also used to apply to certain consumer electronics like TVs which seemed to have model updates every year though this does seem to be changing with sustainability legislation and pressure from Governments.
I wouldn’t even buy a Mexican made Alden. I think many would agree. Part of the justification of the buy was the history/legacy and MiUSA.
I cant believe you used the forbidden word ‘leatherboard’ in this video like 4 times. *spit cough hack spit*. Arent you afraid of getting de-monetized?
This is a super fascinating video, especially seeing the material costs in the overall price. I know every brand gets vilified for selling out and making materials ‘worse’. But it seems like thats a small portion compared to the retail cut or even the manufacturing cut.
😂😂😂 I’ll use it again - leatherboard, leatherboard, leatherboard!!! 🤣🤣🤣
You sure you've never worked for McKinsey? Outsource everything, fire most employees and cut costs is their guiding mantra 😂😅
That is not issue.
Issue is that worth of those Boots is not even close to 700$.
Solution is, if somebody is not capable to made something worth 700$ BUT they are capable to sell for 700$(but surely less and less) and with constant complaint's from customers THEN:
>Replace lether board midsole with leather, replace insole with full grain leather and charge little more and everybody will be happy.<
Everybody can make good Boots for 1000$, issue is only can you sell it....and Alden can.
Because now, fact is that Alden sell piece of shit for double of price and it is right to say that they scam people and such brand deserves to go down.
Otherwise Alden would sell expensive Boots, but "worth" the price.(not really, but ok).
I’m not sure I understand - would you buy the Indy with a leather insole for say $800?
@Bootlosophy I think that's what he's trying to say. Since to him it is already so pricey, they might as well raise it but upgrade the materials. Doing that will not raise just the manufacturing cost, everyone else will want bigger % too, so it's likely going to cause price increases of $200 at least for the consumer. And I think it's true, if you compare the materials to other $1000 boot or shoe companies, if the materials are at least comparable, that can help justify the price. You don't hear people say they would buy Edward Green or Graziano & Girling shoes but only at a discount (hard to find them anyway). Those companies charge premium prices with premium materials and premium craftsmanship. Alden are almost at premium prices with less than ideal materials and standard workmanship (average level finishing). So it is something to consider. I personally would never buy the Alden Indy. I understand the pricing, but with such strong competition in the 350-500usd bracket, it's hard to justify spending double the money for not double the boot. Thank you for this video, very insightful!
Idk when rose anvil cut an alden in half i kinda lost interest to each their own though.
This video wasn’t about for or against the Indy but the numbers