Neil Druckmann and Halley Gross explains why Ellie spared Abby - TLOU 2 Remaster Director Commentary
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Play the winner of over 300 Game of the Year awards, remastered for the PlayStation 5 console. Relive or play for the first time Ellie and Abby’s story, now with graphical enhancements, new gameplay modes like the roguelike survival experience No Return, full DualSense wireless controller integration, and more.
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It’s ironic that if Ellie had just stayed with Dina she woulda got the family she’s always wanted and Abby would have died on the beach where they had her hanging
That’s the brutal thought about everything else, Ellie is the only one that lost everything in the end
Ellie doesn’t believe that she deserves happiness. She didn’t want a family with Dina and to kill abby she wanted to die at the end of the first game.
Life is ironic sometimes, for sure. But Ellie came and saw Abby hanging about yo die, and yet her dying wasn't good enough. She still wanted to do the deed herself.
@@pgatom8255 bruh abby lost her dad, yara and all of her friends tf you mean, yeah she has Lev but she lost plenty 💀
@@CastellANMShe still has Lev and gets to go to a firefly base at the end Abby goes away free
I think an interesting perspective to have too is that for Ellie, her mind has probably already connected the dots for herself. When she sees Abby carrying Lev, some subconscious part of her is probably understanding that Abby is a reflection of Joel and Lev is a reflection of her from when she was a kid. And so when she’s holding Abby under the water, some part of her brain is telling her “This is Joel. You’re killing Joel” and she realises in at moment that she’s become Abby and she’s committing the original sin and all she’d be accomplishing is robbing another child of their guardian and leaving them with nothing except a heart full of hate
I don't know if this is intentional by the devs, but at the beginning of Day 1 Ellie and Dina are talking about their first kills, and Ellie mentions how (back in Part 1) there was a guy who was drowning Joel.
Cut to the end of the game, she's drowning Abby in very much the same vein. I like to think that parallel also led to her seeing a bit of Joel in Abby.
@@BarnabyJones21ohhh that’s is good catch. I would never had connected the dots
@@BarnabyJones21 Shit that's such a good point.
As to the point about Abby and Lev reminding ellie of Joel and her, when i was playing the part where abby and lev were in Constance, i got gust vibe
I think that it had stopped being about revenge for Ellie a while ago. I think she just wanted the pain to stop. PTSD can kill you if it's severe enough. When she got impaled and kept moving, the pain of her past was literally greater than the pain of being impaled. The act of almost killing Abby finally relieved her pain, gave her a chance to live some kind of life.
That last line (sorry, I don't know who that was) sums it up perfectly. You don't need to kill them to understand what it feels like. You just need to know you could have killed them.
That is why they make a part 3.
Thats Halley Gross one of the co writers
On the subject of Yara’s death. Some people have questioned why there is such a long sequence with Abby getting the things needed to save Yara when she does in the next chapter anyway, so what was the point?
I believe the fact you are left asking, “What was the point?” is the point. You find yourself in that situation in real life sometimes where you make a lot of effort for something, and it still doesn't work out. That's life; a lot of the time it just isn't fair.
But this is a game man, I wasted hours to get those medical supplies just for the game to not only disregard progress I made in the game , but also basically saying “fuck you” to the player. That works in movies where the story is told for you, not in a game where you yourself have to make the story progress.
@@seandent3732 the game never says “fuck you”. It would have been the same in a movie because the story of the game is told in the same way here, it's not like the Walking Dead or Life is Strange games where you can alter the story depending on what you do, the story is fixed. Like I said, feeling like there wasn't much point to doing all of that is kind of the point. It's the same with the ending where Ellie is left with nothing.
@@seandent3732 Couldn't have put it better bro. Such pointless writing.
@@PlasmaFeulled316 that's the point, it was all for nothing because life is like that sometimes. Read my original comment again, please.
@@Tillyard86Just because its the point doesn’t make it any better
I feel a big reason I think that Ellie stops is that she is finally givin control over the situation when Joel dies she couldn't do anything but watch and when she fought abby she lost again and lmost lost Dina and again was not given that autonomy to do anything about it. And so when she is drowning Abby she has the power to take which was taken from her and she can make that decision to stop unlike the past two times where that choice was taken from her.
Good point, you can also extend this to how Abby spared ellie both times because she was in control of the situation. Had Ellie been in control of either of the first 3 interactions Abby would prob be dead
My man, (or woman xD) thank u for uploading these! It's been very hard to find them online since i don't have a PS5!
I feel like Ellie remembered her last conversation with Joel, hence that flash of Joel and felt that he felt a sense that Ellie still cared for him when she said she wanted to try and forgive him and with that last conversation Joel died knowing Ellie still loved him and remembering that made it easier for Ellie to not kill Abby. Because I’m sure all Ellie could think about is that Abby took away her chance of forgiving Joel and that they left completely on bad terms until she remembered that night. That’s just me.
i thought it was a very smart decision. a lot of the people saying it isnt dont write stories or are passionate about them beyond just consuming the entertainment at a fast rate.
I think initially, Abby biting off two of Ellie’s fingers triggered rage. But when she had the flashback of Joel playing guitar, what made her let go in part, was grief.
One of the most meaningful things that Joel taught her, from Ellie’s perspective was how to play the guitar, which is why there were constant references to it throughout the game. So i think losing her fingers made her feel like she lost some connection to Joel. The thought probably was partially responsible in making her release Abby.
And in that last moment when she sees Joel, it’s the first time she sees Joe not in a pile of blood. He’s happy and smiling at her and she knows no peace will come from killing Abby. Joel wouldn’t have wanted her to spend in more days in anguish. She saves Abby and saves herself. That’s what I took from it.
I always saw it as Ellie being so tired and worn out from the revenge mindset and that it lasted so long, cost her and Abby both so much, life has inevitably moved to a different place for both of them. Due to what they experienced and did, due to passge of time and because they knew why the other did what she did. Revisiting the revenge for Joel with the same murdering killer instinct for a second time with more time passing didn't make the same sense it made initially. At the end of the day, it's just an emotion. A really strong one, but an emotion. And the more time passes, the weaker any emotion gets, unless you keep feeding it. If it's a good emotion, like love for a parent, or a partner, you can work on the relationship, rekindle the good things between you, and you keep feeding it and it makes you feel better. If it's a bad emotion, you can keep obsessing about how someone wronged you, obsessing about revenge, about comeuppance, about what you lost, and you keep feeding it and it makes you feel worse, more angry and it ultimately explodes somewhere, maybe on someone who doesn't deserve it.
That's living with trauma, with pain you can't realistically resolve, you simply are forced by life to accept it as pain that's from now on somehow going to be there, but that would only grow bigger and uglier if revisited and fed again and again. That's also the key thing - uglier. If Ellie killed Abby, after all what happened, and after they both got where they're coming from, it'd have no moral justification. Killing Abby for Joel originally - makes sense from Ellie's POV. But when she knows about where Abby is coming from and she had time to think about it, which Ellie did, she doesn't have the same higher purpose behind the killer instinct anymore, now it's just an animalistic rage, an impulse or urge she can't really excuse other than it's there, and she's looking to quench it. And if she would cross that line and give in to that urge completely, well, she wouldn't be the same person anymore, not the person that Joel nurtured, loved and liked or the person that remembers the good things about Joel and what good he wanted for her. Of course you have to suspend disbelief here and look past the gameplay, because Ellie killed like 500 people or how much on her way to Abby, so remorse for Abby makes no sense in this regard - so really what you see in the cutscenes is different from the gameplay itself, which is disproportionate in the bodycount to the actual human story being told in the cutscenes.
Ellie simply either could kill Abby and lose whoever she was, or thought she was, or who Joel wanted her to be, completely, or let it go and somehow try and live with the consequences of what she and Abby both did. And that's life. I believe whatever part III is, or part IV, it should or will eventually get to Abby and Ellie being older women and somehow wrapping their fate up, making full peace with what happened to both of them.
Wait... is this supposed to mirror the scene in part 1 were Joel is getting drowned and Ellie saves him???
I really didn't want to fight abby at the end, especially a weak abby with a knife. It felt so wrong for me.
I would have rather seen them for one moment in time need each other to escape the rattlers. Go their separate ways in the end but go with a new found mutual respect. Especially as seeing how protective of lev abby was. That would have definitely helped Ellie reason with Joel's decision that caused this mess.
I felt pretty much the same way as Ellie, seeing her strung up like that made me feel for her and I was happy she cut her down and let her do the same for Lev but I still couldn't fully forgive her for what she did.
I wanted to fight her, I wanted to H U R T her, but I didn't want her to die. I just wanted her to feel what it's like to be powerless. I don't think I've ever felt so similarly to a character since Arthur Morgan fighting Micha Bell
That memory of Joel made her feel again.
Made here heart speak to herself.
Something else then hate and depression.
A glimpse of her old self.
That was enough.
Enough to stop,
see the madness and here own pain.
Understanding that she can solve here pain and loss with conflicting more pain, murder.
She saw the truth of here own loss.
The past is never gonna change for the better.
But I can stop creating more suffering in the world.
This game is the best. I hate the loss and pain. But that is the whole point. Making you feel....
Epic
I'm glad they didn't went with Ellie killing Abby at the end. Turned out way better this way because I didn't want her to go on with her revenge scheme hours ago already for her own sake.
One of the best games I’ve ever played it was a few things I didn’t care for, still a great experience…
One of the best?!??!? That’s a stretch don’t you think?
@@jacobgonzalez2002 g.o.m.d.
@@jacobgonzalez2002 no i agree
@@RomanMercado-ms1mw I think you mean disagree
@@jacobgonzalez2002Buddy, everybody is allowed to have their own opinions.
I don’t like Doom or Dying Light or Bioshock Infinite*, but I had fun with Days Gone and loved TLOU series in its entirety. Does that invalidate people’s opinions about the games I did not like? No it does not.
Does it invalidate other people’s opinions about the games I had a great time with or loved playing? No it does not.
Granted I have a few problems and nitpicks with some games I love, TLOU 2 especially, but I don’t try to shoot down other people’s opinions because I personally hated a game or because I have had a stick up my butt for the last 3 years about it. Careful it’s becoming a personality trait.
* Mind you I loved Bioshock and especially Bioshock 2.
I honestly do believe that justice was served here. Yeah Abby lives, finds the fire flies and has lev but she has to live with all the consequences of her choices which ultimately got all her friends killed. On top of that she was held hostage for a year and who knows just how awful things were. Sometimes the best revenge is letting a person like Abby live
Abby was also a victim. Didnt you play the game? At the beginning shes an innocent good girl that loses her father to some thug who killed him and the only (supposed) chance for humanitys salvation. Although one can argue that humanity does not deserve salvation at that point. Still, from Abbys point of view Joel was a monster. Afterwards, when she realizes who Joel was to Elly and what that revenge brought upon herself and her loved one, she heavily regretted killing him in such a brutal matter. And thats part of why she saved Lev, to change and redeem herself to an extent.
One of the most beautiful stories but it is in game format it makes it very hard to go through the story because of the nature of things keep happening continuously. If this was a tv series i think it would be masterpiece and would have counted as one of the best of all time.
I think a lot of people who didn't understand character motivations in this game have an issue with viewing stories as an equation. The "complex human" thing doesn't register with them because they want a simple, singular answer to the equation they've created in their own head.
These people pop up at every discussion of stories that have interpretations, especially to their endings. The Thing, Bladerunner, Shin Godzilla, The Witch, The Lighthouse, Bioshock Infinite, Gris, the Metro games, Journey, etc. Just to name a few movies and games. I'd put Twin Peaks in there, too, but I've yet to watch it myself.
People are so obsessed with deducing the exact, singular answer when there isn't meant to be one. It's so exhausting.
Drives me crazy when I see yet another post or article about whether the alien is alive and who it's taken in The Thing. The vagueness is the point: there are multiple possibilities and that is what feeds into the central themes of the movie. Distrust, isolation, responsibility to protect others conflicting with self-preservation, etc. By hyper-focusing on whether there's a glint in their eye or some other arbitrary nonsense, you are trivializing the point of the movie and oversimplifying what is meant to be complex.
Should have created a choice for players to either kill or spare Abby with 2 different endings.
but Ellie would never kill abby at that point in the narrative. the whole game is not about what the player wants. if that mattered i bet a whole bunch of stuff in TLOU 1 would be different too. They never were multiple choice games.
@@ChajosDid you play Tlou 2 with your ass? Ellie literally stopped drowning Abby due to a last minute change of heart. As well, TLOU 1 was never as idiotic as part 2 and didn’t require a sequel at all, let alone 2 endings.
Get a life @@Chajos
No because they didnt give us a choice to save or let Ellie die at the hospital back in 2013.
@@RatedRLoquenderIn tlou 1, it wasn’t a last second decision by Joel, but it was a logical outcome for his character development. In part 2, Ellie was drowning already bleeding Abby to death if not for an instantaneous change of heart. Different scenario requires different approach.
both of them killed a lot of there frends and love ones ands 100s of soldiers and henchman along the way . just to give some open ended reasons on y they didnt kill each other ?
my take is
they didnt kill abby because shes the main character in the next game 😄😄
The Last of Us unequivocally shows us Joel's motivation to save Ellie's life, whether you personally agree with it or not, we all know WHY he did it. The main question of why Ellie spared Abby in the 2nd game remains diluted at best. Here’s the thing, it’s Ellie’s choice to make so I felt quite separated the moment it actually happened and then I personally felt empty after she made the decision not to take Abby’s life. Not because I didn’t understand the decision but because I didn’t know why it was truly being made, the real motivation behind it. I still don’t know the answer to that question as I am left to guess at why. There are WAY too many themes interwoven throughout the game that the answer becomes murky and depends entirely upon your own personal perspective and as the player you project your own personal reason/s onto Ellie as to why she did not go through with killing Abby. I understand that this was the entire point of the game, but this is what made it NOT a bad ending but an incomplete one. I don’t know the driving motivation of Ellie and that’s what makes it feel empty, not the actual decision in and of itself. At first Naughty Dog gave me a very simple and straight forward (black and white) reason for Ellie to kill Abby as she brutally murdered Joel and then at the end of the game provided Ellie’s true motivation for going after Abby and her friends. Then proceeded to give me at least several different competing ideas and/or emotions throughout the game as to why Ellie shouldn’t or wouldn’t kill her. Then Neil Druckman deliberately chose NOT to tell me the deciding factor/s as to why she didn’t. Whether on an emotional and/or intellectual level, how can I empathize with any decision one way or the other when I don’t fully understand the parameters of the actual choice being presented? This is not bad storytelling, it’s LAZY storytelling! Nailing it down on one side of the choice and leaving it openly ambiguous on the other. Telling me why Ellie should kill Abby and then deliberately NOT telling me why she didn’t. It’s as if Naughty Dog is using an age old intellectual and emotional sleight of hand to explain what I consider to be a rather incomplete ending. To me this ineptitude is laid low at the feet of Naughty Dog and specifically Neil Druckman’s direction. They told an incomplete, convoluted, and ultimately messy end game story. From Naughty Dog’s perspective I am willing to concede that they felt like they answered the reason as to why Ellie spared Abby and that I am simply too dimwitted to see it. If that’s the case, then it is my opinion that Naughty Dog did an abysmal job at attempting to show Ellie’s true motivation and therefore the driving force behind her ultimate end game decision. The developers are either deliberately trying to deceive me, or they did a poor job of making it clear. I ultimately believe they are trying to emotionally manipulate the players one way or the other.
I’m not flat out calling this game a piece of art, at least not in the same way you think. If you look at it this way (I’m gonna use Art as an adjective so it makes sense) some of the best pieces of art (whether it’s a book, a film or an actual painting itself) never have a clear cut answer as to what it all REALLY means, you usually have to look for it and come up with your own interpretation, take The Sopranos for example. You could simply look at the ending as a flat out lazy cop out on the part of David Chase, but it’s not really is it? Part 2 is constructed in a way where everything is SUPPOSED TO FEEL MESSY, you’re supposed to be questioning what Ellie’s TRUE motive is. And yeah she spares Abby, but it’s for many different reasons. What they went for was “we don’t want to outright explain why these characters are making these decisions’ cause at the end of the day, that’s what humanises Ellie and Abby even more, it’s just a really fucked situation that they’re all in. But the only point where it’s clear cut, is when Joel did what he did in the hospital. That’s really the only point in these games where A, we see why a character did what he/she did, and B, we understand both POVs. What Ellie and Abby do after that, purely up to the players opinion. That’s where the player becomes relevant, having to come to terms with what they’ve done, and trying to get a clear answer out of these 20 something emotional immature characters is very difficult.
Ellie wants to kill Abby for revenge. The whole reason she wants to do it is because she lost someone she cares about and has all of these emotions boiling up inside of her. She is angry. She is sad. She has no real outlet or way to truly process those feelings. So these feelings turn into a desire that the person who did this deserves some kind of "justice" or like this idea that they "can't just get away with it." So she goes out and essentially kills every single person that Abby ever gives a shit about. She inflicts the same pain back on Abby (honestly probably even more) and she never processes those feelings or emotions. In her attempt to feel better by seeking this form of justice, she endangers more people she cares about and at the end I would say she doesn't even feel better. She is still traumatized by what happened in that basement and she can't let it go because she ties this idea of justice with her feelings. Because she still feels this way and it hurts so much, the justice must not have actually happened. They must have still gotten away with it. So when she finally finds Abby again and she has been enslaved and tortured along with this companion that she has clearly formed a deep connection to (it's been months at this point), I think it's kind of clear that Ellie is chasing something that is long gone. Abby has suffered more than enough and yet Ellie doesn't feel any better. She is about to kill Abby and this memory of Joel comes back to her and she realizes that none of this is helping. All she is doing is taking a "Joel" from someone else who probably doesn't even deserve it at this point.
I feel like they don't explicitly spell it out, but you are meant to think about why people seek revenge and what the desired outcome is. Then you need to think about whether that revenge would actually fix the root problem that starts the search for revenge to begin with.
Problem is the writing didn't really build up or felt earned to that moment where she spares Abby. At least make it a player's moral choice like with the ending of Ghost of Tsushima where you could choose to spare Jin's Uncle Shimura or kill him. And i chose to spare him and I felt like the writing build up to that moment when Jin chose to Sacrifice Honor and his Traditions that he was brought up to learn with ever since he was a kid & decided no more bloodshed and refused to kill the last of his family just to please his Uncle's twisted desire for a honorable warrior's death. And even the alternate ending where the players chooses to kill him works too in its own unique way.
For some examples, like Sam Raimi's Spider-Man 3, where Peter forgives Flint Marko & chose to let go of his hatred & vengeance. That felt earned, and it helps that Peter actually learns the story from Flint's perspective. Ellie really never learned or understood Abby side of the story or never knew the REAL reason as to why Abby killed Joel was because he killed her Dad Jerry, only us the players saw everything else. You see, Ellie in game thought the reason why Abby killed Joel because he ruined the world's chance for a cure, Abby never really explains any of this to Ellie. It would've made more sense as to why she spared Abby as Abby reminds her so much about herself and seeing how they're kinda similar in many ways. Ellie didn't know anything else about Abby's side of the story beyond her being a former Firefly turned WLF. or like How in Rambo: First Blood where Rambo didn't get his revenge on Sherriff William Teasel, and it ends where nobody truly wins. Where both Rambo & Teasel had consequences for their actions without dying and was left broken & alone. Or like in Disney's The Fox & The Hound, where towards the end of the film, Amos Slade chooses to let go of his hatred and vengeance realizing his petty revenge was not worth it in the end and killing Tod would solve nothing and his anger/temper almost could've gotten himself and his hunting dog Copper killed by a grizzly bear. Or in Brother Bear where it also taught a better message about the themes of revenge, forgiveness, loss, guilt, finding your humanity, what it truly takes to be a man, and love. Like when Kenai kills Koda's mom at the beginning of the film because Kenai blames Koda's mom for the death of his older brother Sitka. And him realizing the guilt and cost of his terrible mistake tells Koda the truth and Koda learning to forgive Kenai for what he did to his Mother. & then Kenai's 2nd brother Denahi, was trying his own little brother Kenai because he didn't reconize him as a bear when the great spirits from the sky transformed Kenai from a human to a bear after committing his horrible act of wrongfully killing Koda's mom. Showing the cycles of violence, and revenge, just leave everyone blind & trying to atone and finding forgiveness is the true path to redemption And it's ironic that an animated kid's movie from 2003 that wasn't afraid to go dark and explore heavy adult themes told a better version of The Last of Us Part 2's themes, story & morals.
Well, next time, they're going to hire you to write the story. Then, you can share your masterpiece of "earned" revenge with the world.
Absolutely shit take. Respectfully
@jeffstartswithj 🙄😒 Typically defensive. Makes me wonder where did this topic came from out of nowhere? I wasn't even talking about hiring me to write it. I simply just expressed my honest constructive opinion, and I wasn't even being an asshole about. So, I'm not even gonna bother responding to your comment with an insult. Because there's this classic quote here called, "Don't fight fire with fire"
@@djr3385 Eh, whatever makes you feel better about yourself, I guess. 🤷
@@jeffstartswithj Is there a single movie, video game, or tv show that you dislike?
im so glad this commentary is making the rounds. maybe some people have finally calmed down and can see why the decisions were made.
So Hilarious to listen them about Eliie keeping her Humanity sparing Abby when she had brutally murdered hundreds of people and some more dogs, while abandoning Dina and remembering Joel beginning to mend their relationship ehile drowning Abby. Haaaaah!
I think that’s also kinda the point, Ellie had these good things going for her, but she couldn’t let it go, from a certain point of view she is right, Abby and them are technically deserving of something, TO THEM. But imagine one of us was immune and someone had come up with a plausible way to cure the infection, but the person you’ve come to care for so much, robbed you of that opportunity. It’s easy for us to dismiss Ellie’s despair with Joel but none of us will ever experience that feeling, being robbed of something you thought was your reason to still be alive. As Ellie saids in part 1 ‘I’m still waiting for my turn’. Part 2 Ellie is caught in this absolute mind fuck ‘I want to kill Abby and everyone’ while also leaving the secure place of Jackson, only to then do it again when leaving the farm. And it seems like she’s okay with potentially dying in the process. Ellie is also around 20 let’s not forget, the emotional maturity simply isn’t there. Then again, if we saw that same person(Joel) die a brutal death, you’d probably want to act immediately. Killing 100s of soldiers, look, it is a game at the end of the day, the player needs to be entertained/intrigued by the gameplay in some way. But you could look at it from this POV, those soldiers Ellie kills, that’s coming from a place of ‘if they get in my way they are going to die’ but at the same time, the nature of the wolves seems to be ‘assume that anyone we don’t know is a scar, shoot on sight’. The game is basically telling you ‘this is the fucked up world they’re living in, where murder is treated the same way as getting a cup of coffee in the morning’
Riiiiiight like abby had humanity left as well
Would’ve been more interesting if they gave the players a choice… though they might’ve just been afraid people wouldn’t spare Abby…
One of the reasons she lets her live is because Abby is strangely the only person left on the earth that she has a close bond with. In many ways they are inseparable and linked by the similarities in the pain and loss they have felt in a unique way.
I don’t think Ellie was thinking that when she let her go.
No
wtf are u talking about so u create a bond from the person who killed ur dad?
deep meaning search syndrome
Even the developers and the cast don’t know WHY 😂🤣😂 Apparently the answer is all of the above….Lazy storytelling!!!
Read a book you fool, interpretability of characters is good writing not bad. I bet you think Hamlet is a bad character because no one truly knows why he does what he does, and your favourite character is iron man or some shit
Anyone with a brain that played both games know thats shit storytelling
@@andrerocha3998 anyone with a brain that has finished high school knows stories being interpretable is good writing
@@Ulalamulala your answer donst make sense ,... i cant interpretable anythink i look and want in live, That doesnt mean is correct or not...
@@andrerocha3998 I can't even understand your reply, read that back to yourself and see if it makes sense to you because it's incoherent to me
I like this ending although I am very aware that many people wanted Abby dead. The original ending would have pleased the majority of fans most likely
Would've been a sick ending if she did kill abby and takes care of Lev as her penance
This message would’ve had more impact if Ellie actually killed Abby. If people can’t understand why Ellie spared Abby, then you haven’t executed your point well.
It's funny that people like you never see the mistake in yourselves.
most people have the emotional intelligence of a cockroach
@@ProgazQQsaying the one harrasing others because they didn't like this bad written story. You fanboys are not morally superior in any form so go crawl back to the hole you were please
I mean, many films that released at the time they came about, were met with negative views, only to then pull a 180 and now they’re helmed as the greatest pieces of film ever put to screen. I feel like this is kinda the same, while a majority silently loved this game, the minority of people that disliked it, will revisit this game in a few years and realise that it’s actually brilliant
Also this the first game I’ve ever witnessed that absolutely warrants at least a 2nd play-through, if your willing to give it a chance, and buy into what it’s trying to do
Because it makes debates about the game last longer. Joel would have killed her.
Knowing the reasons just makes the game worse.
For me it always was about Ellie feeling guilty of Joel's death and thats why you have that ending where she has the last talk with him.
Ellies story is coming to terms with his father's death and the reason she leaves abby lives is because she understands her guilt and forgives herself.
Knowing the real reason makes me feel more dissapointed in Neil Drunkman.
The fact that Druckman's answer is so hollow speaks volumes about characters that he never understood and story beats that he ignored. The reason she spares Abby is so blatantly obvious, it's like 3rd grade language arts class all over again. It is painstakingly painted to us that it becomes less about revenge and more of wanting the pain of Joel's death to go away. I was holding out hope that Druckman had a clear understanding but it's so clear that that he disguises his ignorance by throwing a bunch of stuff at the wall and hoping someone goes "oh I guess that makes sense".
I still think this is stupid
I just want factions 2 WHAT THE FUCK YO
She spends the entire game murdering people left and right, but sparing the one person she was focused on is redeeming? Why did she kill everyone else? Stop trying to be artsy about doing a twist ending.
It's a video game, you have to suspend your disbelief a little bit with these mediums. It's why the TV show is so different.
@@AdiusOmega theres plenty of games where gameplay and cutscenes match tone, it just isnt the case in this game
@@darthshard8967 Like what? Literally any shooter game is incredibly unrealistic, thick heavy plot armor to provide continuity to the story being told.
@@AdiusOmega last of us the first one that is, the older assassins creed games mainly the original 4, red dead redemption 2 arthur in that game will talk about the players actions in the camp good and bad choices influences the story the whole game dialogue changes and scenes are different based on the gameplay and the chapter your in, the original battlefront 2, shadow of mordor and shadow of war are consistent in tone, games that have scenes that dont match gameplay famously is uncharted 4 i belive theres an acievement called Ludonarrative Dissonance in that very game, far cry 3, also i didnt talk about plot armor i talked about the gameplay not matching story/cutscenes tone, plot armor is in every work of fiction to some degree its just that in well written naratives you wont notice it but you will with bad narratives and messy writings witch the main writter of last of us 2 has said the tone is supposed to be messy, and it is bullshit that ellie didnt kill abby out of everyone in that game she deserved it the most, no scene with abby petting a dog gonna make me like abby, i like the dog i dont like abby, honestly even with ellie letting her go she should have bled to death but no she walks away like she wasnt stabbed in the chest and arms, (sorry for the rant)
Killed 300 plus people that have nothing to do with her revenge to find abby plus all her friends, and ruined all her relationships with people, lost jesse, spares the one person that caused all of this. Niel u cant defend this
Lmao by this logic Joel should have just murdered Henry and Sam and left Ellie by herself after Tess died. "If you do bad thing, you must keep doing bad thing or else gamer upset"
your comparation is so bad... but here take a cokkie dont be mad@@Ulalamulala
@@Ulalamulalawith that logic Joel is the hero if he didn't save ellie she wouldn't have saved abby
@@nestormelendez9005 there are no heroes in this game it's like real life.
@@Ulalamulala there are heros in this game its like a video game
The original ending would have been way better. Y'all should have stuck with that. The ending felt like ND giving me a giant ass middle finger.
Thankfully, this is an authentic story, not just a tale for your entertainment.
@@ProgazQQ but it is a tale for peoples entertainment is it not? the whole point of a video game is entertaining individuals
I am entertained@@asher8610
Make sure u suck that middle finger
In my opinion (strictly my opinion please don't hate me for this), I think what this game gets so wrong is that fans are already invested in Ellie and everyone important to her from the first game. Forcing us to play as Abby to convince us that she's not the villain and the real villain is Ellie just seemed misguided and didn't work for me. I only wanted revenge and to brutally murder Abby because I'm team Ellie. It does not matter to me what's right or wrong here. I just wanted the satisfaction of revenge.
All the long chapters you get to play as Abby did nothing to change my mind that she had to die. And I didn't find her likeable despite everything.
I don’t think they were trying to frame Ellie as the villain here- like they said this story if based on blurry lines- I don’t think there is a true villain- just two suffering people and I think what naughty dog is asking is, what is the cost of justice?
@thebassman723 yes while I respect that theme and that idea, I personally wasn't amazed with how it was executed. You're suddenly forced to play as Abby without knowing who she is and why she did what she did. The game builds you up to a certain moment playing as Ellie and then you're suddenly forced to spend hours playing as someone no player has any reason to even like. The disconnect between Ellie and Abby's campaign is too big.
If the game was structured in a way where Joel's death occurs near the end of the game after already giving us players time to be more invested in abby (with a more important role for abby to play in her campaigns and not just feel good sidequests her campaign is about to make herself feel better and forcing players to sympathise with her).
I don't think the story is necessarily bad. It's just structured in a way that loses its narrative consistency.
Be nice if you had a choice and an alternate ending
Your choices never matter for the narratave in TLOU. why would that change in the finale of part 2? giving the player a choice in the matter is just not the style of the game. by all means hate the ending, or wish for the last of us in a different style of game. Personally i would love a Mass Effect style game in the world of TLOU, where you have to choose which party member to keep alive etc. but TLOU never gave you any choice for the narrative / important NPCs.
@@Chajoscope
He said nothing to the question jeezz! : "to me is all those things!" wait what! What did you mean to portrait in your game that's what I want to know! You are the director! You did change the ending! Explain what's on Ellies mind that where are not getting!! Did you write this or not? So easy to just f say the memory of Joel made her forgive, innocent Lev makes her forgive that was my mind when writing this down, seems he didn't even know himself or the answer! Like is not the definitive answer.
he did answer it. People's reasoning for their actions is complex. There are a lot of different aspects that play a role. For that decision there were a lot of things going on and all that comulated to Ellies decision to not kill her.
@@Himolino well the answer is a bunch of things? Say that! Or what? There must be an answer is not a real life deal! Is a fictional writing thing
God this ending was stupid
😂😂😂
Not like all those stories you wrote, am I right?
@@jeffstartswithjand you?
It definitely was it makes no sense to let her live in part 3 Abby will probably come after her her and hopefully ellie will take her her out
Guys it’s so simple a game bent on revenge and bloodshed. Just because you have the opportunity of revenge doesn’t mean you have to take it. Forgive those that have wronged you. The game was all about forgiveness. That’s what Joel would have wanted Ellie to do. Forgive
You can forgive yourself after Abby's murder) Why not? In the zombie apocalypse, "forgiveness" is too expensive
Then abby should have forgave
She tortured and killed Joel. Ellie killed everyone but Abby. She doesn't know Abbys journey. How does a flashback to Joel influence her to not exactly revenge. It doesn't make any sense.. she there away a chance at a family...to rescue Joels killer? Also, Abby murdering WLFs after being with Lev for a couple of days is treachery. The games story is just not good.
"Imagine John Wick where he goes through the entire movie killing mobsters but at the end spares the guy who killed his dog."
- TheRealCarlBrutananadilewski
They're masters of authentic writing
Personally I would rather Ellie killed her because that would complete her transformation into a complete monster and have no way of redeeming herself plus it would set up the inevitable third game better because then it could’ve continued the cycle of revenge with Lev pursuing Ellie like how Ellie hunted Abby
Thw only chatactwr drjven way it works is if Ellie cant kill Abby in gront of Lev, because her PTSD wont let hwr make someone go through what she did s😢seeing Joel die. But to portray that would mean the wroters need empathy, depth and skill.
this is the only part of the game i truly hate, it felt like such a bait and switch bs ending
Why did Ellie spare Abby?
Neil: “I don’t know.”
Save you two minutes.
Basically he’s saying that it’s meant to be more ambiguous and based more on interpretation essentially.
its so sad they cut the part of lev dying, but i dont know if i like the idea of abby dying, i wouldn't be really sad but still
Well at least we had fat gerald punch lev
@@andrerocha3998 hell yeah, enjoyed this scene so much, watched it like 20 times, Ffat gerald is the goat for that punch
Why is it sad they cut Lev dying??
its obvious why ellie spared abby but the toxic joel fanboys can’t accept it and won’t. most tlou fans don’t understand the whole point in the game they only see joel’s death and thats it
They're upset because it's a pathetic sequel that used a beloved already existing IP to do a generic, predictable, and basic plotline that only talks about revenge being bad. It's not an awful game but it is by no means better than the first one and that is why the outrage even happened. It was just extremely disappointing and a huge letdown to original fans who had waited years for this game. Joel's death would've been perfectly fine if it was done in a coherent way that didn't retcon the entire character into a washed up shell of what he was in the first game.
@@chickenwing1887Thank you so clear and concise. Couldn’t have said it better my self well said man.
@@chickenwing1887 "predictable basic and generic plot" ?? lmao in what world is tlou2 generic? 💀 if everything you got from the game is that "revenge is bad" then maybe you should do a second run, even a third. I literally have pdfs of every character some of them with almost 20k words, but everything you got from it is "revenge is bad and the game is generic"?? The fact that this game didn't k1ll their main character in a cliche way saving Ellie of smt and actually k1ll him in such a brutal way just as the game itself should tell you how unique this game is
@@chickenwing1887 Game is generic because they didn't follow the same trope of getting revenge which itself is generic? I don't know many games that don't go through with revenge that can lead to "revenge is bad" being generic.
@@chickenwing1887 I have some issues with the game as well, but in no way is it generic. No story can have a public opinion as split TLOU2 and be labeled "generic". If it was generic, you would not see as many people talking about it passionately and even revaluating their thoughts nearly 4 years later. Again, I don't agree with everything the game does, but this is undeniably a complex narrative that is saying a whole lot about the human condition. TLOU2 is as much of a "revenge bad" story as TLOU1 is an "old man rediscovers life with a surrogate child" story. On the surface you can boil it down to cliches, but that ignores all of the character nuance that went into these stories
good ending xd
What about the other hundreds Ellie killed without remorse? Why stop now. Just a another dead body on the pile. And one that killed Joel. Shit writing, Neil.
Horrible ending sorry never liked it
they should have killed off abby what a joke of an ending
She was supposed to die but they changed it
People wanting ellie to kill Abby are just as bad as Abby
Imprisoning a kidnapper makes you as bad as the kidnapper?
Good video. Sadly the comment session showed why this game became a meme. Lame fanboys attacking anyone who did not like the story or have another opininion. Is so sad seeing people doing this just for the need of attention 😢
The game became a meme because of the conservative hate campaign full of misleading propaganda that influenced dumb gamers into hating it before they played it. I guarantee you no one made memes about it because it had "fanboys"
I understand you, I personally don't like the game. I've met a lot of fans who defend the game, and if you don't like the game, then you'll be branded "underdeveloped" or "a person who has a problem with empathy"
You also have lame fanboy attacking anyone who did like the story or have an opinion for the need of attention
@@nestormelendez9005.
.. Just go home and learn some basics of reading comprehension please
@@johnybarrera9973 just return to your house and practice common sense and logic thank you
I still would have rather her did it. By the end, Ellie lost everything. Joel, her friends, her gf, hell, even her fingers so she couldn’t even do the one thing that was taught to her and brings her memories of someone she cared about. She was left with nothing, and leaving Abby alive, to me, felt like it was all for nothing at all. It’s the Last of Us, there’s no “happy” endings, but for me there was no satisfaction at all with this ending.
Just like Ellie says in the first game... "It can't be for nothing." When in fact, it really was for nothing since Joel saves her. Hmmm... coincidence?
Nah, man. If you think it was all for nothing, you’re missing the whole point. After Ellie gets back to Jackson, she still has that tiny chunk of humanity left, the piece that could still be normal and hadn’t given in. It was the last possible moment to turn back and she finally took it when she should’ve taken it forever ago. When she returns to Jackson with that tiny piece in tact that didn’t go away, she can use it to begin her own redemption. She can apologize to Dina, she can tell Tommy to stuff it, she can rebuild. She had to lose her fingers the same way that she also loses her knife at the end. She has to lose her connection to the past, let the memories begin to fade, because that’s the only way to move on. It’s a hopeful ending when she returns to Jackson because she still had possibility
@@jeffbezos3200 you’re assuming Dina is in Jackson. Maybe you’re right, maybe not. I get they built the game to play through a different perspective, and I actually really like the way the game was designed around you switchback and forth, the dialogue of what the other was doing while you were playing as the other, it was brilliant. However, no matter how much they tried to get me to see through a different lens it didn’t work. In the end I still didn’t give a crap about Abby or her dad. I play games as an escape from life, so I don’t look at games as real life situations. That said, Ellie and Joel are the ones that I’ve spent months, and hours with and the ones I became attached to. In TLOU, no one is a hero, everyone has done bad things. In my eyes they left the character I liked with absolutely nothing and no one
@@WICK3DIncStudios but they didn’t leave her with nothing…the whole point is that the ending was open to her putting things right back on home. It was definitively hopeful. Yes she had nothing at the moment, but she was walking on to a new day with new possibilities
I don't care that Elle wouldn't have felt better after killing Abby. *I* would have felt better, damn it.
Grow up.
@@Joce_0thank you
who cares about you? let your mother write storys for you
why cant you expect somone opinions maybe you should grow up @@Joce_0
@@ProgazQQcope
Last of 2 should have never had joel killed niel could til bring in abby without killing joel off have abby side of story as well til do joel and ellie story as well .like sould had show in start of of part 2 at settle were during joel killing everybody in operation room he goe make run at elevator he see jerry getting into other one same time he does joel thinking he met jerry in parking garage. But we see jerry get off at different floor of parking garage getting into his truck .then we see joel kill marlene .then we should of seen joel follow truck out of parking garage joel rember truck being jerry because of label of baseball team jerry like redsox said to himself go hide jerry we met up someday i find u .then have joel and ellie met abby at same time at cabin during infected attack set off by fedra army .then have a attack happen at cabin while joel and abby try explain jerry alive but owen and others keep trying interfere in chat between joel and abby then out of nowhere attack took place fedra army move in throwing fire bomb onto cabin shooting threw windows it cause joel ellie abby other fight back they didn't know who was attack them al at once .then dina jesse show up fire off shot at fedra army from behind they force fedra army to move .joel saw guy planing to jump ellie from behind goes save her kill guy when joel when see if ellie was ok 2 men from fedra army took joel into woods yell out we got joel fedra army took off on horse follow a near by truck .after things settle ellie and dina jesse and tommy look around see abby owen few goes what hell just happen here tommy goes whoever it was took joel why .jesse goes this guy will give us answer we looking for throw him in front of circle of tommy dina and abby and her friend .guy goes there no stoping us we going take u all out we know jackson place is it going be ours soon just like what we did to other places .ellie goes who hell are u guys tommy rember guy goes oh my god he a fedra army guy goes yup we back thanks to u and joel tommy and ellie u help us take out firefly .expet abby her friends we wanted her dead to but plan got ruin .abby goes oh u going pay guy goes if u kill me now u never know were your dad is abby .abby goes he dead guy laugh wrong again marlene set u up and that guy owen knew about it guy joel killed was one of your other doctor friend .abby goes that not true guy goes ask him owen see abby turn around goes is that true u lie to me owen goes i don't know what u talking about has piss off abby walk up to him abby goes look me in eye tell me it not true but owen couldn't shot guy told truth ellie goes it is true joel never killed jerry it was set up all along .abby started attacking owen but others broke it up owen put gun on abby goes i kill u and ellie if try come closer try convice other come with me i am member of fedra we can win war other look only few of friends hechad also agree they were part of fedra expet pregnant one wasn't she didn't know they owen fired off shots owen and other took off expet pregnant women .jesse dina tommy goes looking for them abby u can run owen and your punk friend i make u pay along with fedra to i now going help ellie .tommy returns dina jesse goes we lost them storm starting pick up .ellie backpack on dead guy body took it off open it find a map notes on map and fedra plans are they see red marker trail starting were they found jackson place and cabin then go threw past texas into California into circle to santa Barbara then back threw texas into mexico city ellie see note were it all started time rebuild new army of infected circle around mexico city tommy goes oh my god they taking joel back to that lab were marlene created cyclop virus they must have rebuild it back up ellie goes they going try make joel pay turn him into one .that not going happen .so part 2 of ladt of us should had dina abby jesse tommy goes back jackson to prepare other for maybe attack by fedra at some point .ellie abby become friends goes i help u save joel if u help me save my dad ellie agrees they all take off but run into fedra got into fight met levi his sister who joined as well but they run into scars rattler bloater inside big mansion near a beach then found other fedra base other big mansion got into other fight with fedra fedra prisoners saved abby dad but jerry told them they took joel ellie goes i know ere they taking him jerry ask were abby goes were it all started years ago in mexico jerry goes we got stop them i think i know how with ellie help kill that new found virus they trying make like anna did but thing is we got get inside lab there hidden door joel build for anna if know anna she may have hidden some4 in that man made under ground tunnel joel and tommy build for her .ellie goes u think fedra will findvit jerry goes i doubt it joel tommy made sure marlene could find it so i doubt they will .but i rember there letter on floor near mom old desk letter was eil peice of l broke of and i and e ellie goes what if that clue mom left for me it could be door to tunnel.
Part 1 was one of the best games ever, but with a GIANT flaw at the end
the makers of this game should have never taken the ability out of the
players hands whether to kill the surgeon or only shoot Him in the leg.
Nobody should been surprised by what was going to happen in part 2
because of the game makers playing GOD and removing the player choice.
"Playing GOD" Dude. What the fuck are you on?
@@dumbsow9420 it's very clear by Your comment that You don't understand what "playing god" means
"Playing God" generally refers to someone using their power to make decisions regarding the fate of another's life or many lives.
@@user-bj6lc5ij6f Yeah I know but this is a video game. Utterly stupid to use that phrase in something like that
Absolutely deranged fan boy talk. How embarrassing
@@user-bj6lc5ij6f TLOU isn't a game about choice and its not the only game out there to deny the players significant control over the game's narrative. The notion that the people who made TLOU are "playing god" is frankly ridiculous. By your logic, any game that has a narrative but no dialogue options/significant story options made by players is one where the creators are "playing god". In reality, it is a creative decision. "Oh, Leonardo Da Vinci didn't give us the option of seeing the Mona Lisa as blond, he must like playing god!"
Player choice is a feature in the same way that an open world is a feature. It does not make sense everywhere and, arguably, it doesn't make sense in The Last Of Us, whose story is very deliberately crafted and has a very intentional message which would be undermined if, say, Joel could just punch the surgeon's lights out and run away, or Ellie could slit Lev's throat and drown Abby.
Damn, this game got to me. Yeah, I don’t agree with some of the messaging, but what a brilliant work of art. There’s no studio like naughty dog
This game saved my 2020
Ellie has no character arc in this game. the moment Ellie decides to save Abby comes at a drop of a hat. which as a story writer and a person with BA in film pisses me off.
Your BA is wasted, if you cannot identify Ellie's character arc you are 100% a hack writer. Pure delusion
@@Ulalamulala Okay, then tell me where it starts and how it develops, because all I saw was, 'I WANT ABBY FUCKING DEAD,' and then out of nowhere, 'just go.'
In a character arc, a character slowly progresses from one state to another. Take, for example, Part 1, where Ellie went from naive innocence to a survivalist. How did Ellie change from the beginning of Part 2 to the end of Part 2? Well, she didn't. All she wanted to do, and I quote, was 'finish it.' What did she mean by that? To kill Abby. That's the only thing she wanted to do throughout the whole game. How can that be considered a character arc?
@@rwwilson21 u r hack, take this 🖕🏿🖕🏿