Neil Druckmann On The Last Of Us Getting Rejected, Making Hit Video Games | Logically Speaking Ep. 7
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- čas přidán 25. 06. 2024
- Logic sits down with director, writer and award winning video game designer Neil Druckmann. Best known as the creator of The Last of Us and co-president of the renowned video game developer Naughty Dog, Neil shares his unique story of moving from a 12-home town in Israel to the US to eventually creating an Emmy nominated TV show.
Full of unique stories like learning English through video games, having ideas rejected by George Romero (Night of the Living Dead), designing one of the best selling video game franchises in Uncharted, bulldozing his way into internships from CEOs, how Logic made it into a video game, dealing with the pressures of successful sequels, the art of collaboration, and so much more- Neil gives us an inside look into how he blazed his own path.
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Timestamps
0:00 Welcome Neil Druckmann!
2:12 Growing up in a small town in Isreal
4:42 Learning English through Video Games & Movies
6:47 Moving to the United States
8:32 Falling in love with Video Games
9:57 Deciding to Pursue Video Games as a Career
14:37 Meeting the CEO of Naughty Dog, Getting Your Foot In The Door
19:07 Masters Carnegie Mellon
24:32 Learning how to collaborate, lead & direct
30:47 When Logic knew he wanted to be a rapper
33:44 Pitching Last of Us to George Romero, Getting Rejected
38:02 The Last Of Us as a Comic
39:20 First Time at Naughty Dog as an Intern
44:50 From Intern to Designer to Working on Uncharted
47:32 What’s next after video games?
50:30 When Logic Fell In Love With Video Games
51:47 Living Up To Expectations (Uncharted Sequels, Logic’s Albums)
55:35 Neil & Logic’s Relationship & Logic in Last Of Us 2
1:00:03 Logic’s Auditions
1:02:28 Logic’s Process For Albums & What’s Next
1:08:42 Logic’s Love For The Last Of Us TV Show
1:15:29 Making The Last Of Us TV Show
1:17:29 What Makes Neil Happy?
#logic #thelastofus #videogames #podcast #uncharted #tv #zombie - Zábava
Y’all already know how much I love playing The Last Of Us! I beat the game at least 20 times and had to get the safe codes tatted on my hands so I never have to look em up again lmao!! Those digits are in the handwriting of the dude who created that game and today’s guest on the pod, Neil Druckmann!!!
Hey dad I beat it like 5 times and the 2nd once but man it's an incredible story! Masterpiece! Can't wait for ultra 85!
🐢👽🔥
Arguably better graphics than GTA V on PS3. Blew my mind back then.
Awesome, I love your comment on this!
The Goat !
I've literally been playing video games since the original Nintendo, the last of us is undoubtedly, the greatest story in a game ever. Even on the 6th play through. Thank you Neil for this game and series.An absolute masterpiece 👏
"It's hard being an introvert. You keep playing a conversation in your head and you want it to be perfect, so you just hold off on that conversation until I can make the perfect version and then I just never do it". I feel that.
Man these podcast are so inspiring for someone in their late 20s who still hasn’t quiet figured out what he wants to do with his life, you and your guests are awesome and i cant wait for the next episode thanks for all the dope content you create cant wait for the next album too!
I didn’t figure it out until I was 30.
After that I went all the way to the top of where I wanted to be. I wasted my entire 20’s!
As long as you have passion, enthusiasm and can speak well, you can get anywhere. Just go above and beyond for whoever you work for (as long as they are kind and interested).
I’m a voice actor and did mostly commercial work. Played TLOU really late on PS4 and after the first cut scene I called my coach and said, “I HAVE to do a video game demo”. Changed my entire perspective on what voice acting could be and what I could do as a voice actor 🙌🏼 Also auditioned for Stranger Things but still waiting for that call lol
Keep waiting. Not gonna happen.
@@adriantrusca1245It's a joke, but thanks. I'm just grateful casting picked me to audition for two roles, how about you??
LEGENDARY EPISODE! Good on you Bob for getting Neil on the pod. Both of you are legends
Absolutely love Neil, though he’s told these stories a million times I have all the time in the world for the guy that made my favourite games. Thank you for giving him time to speak.
Let Neil tell his story without interrupting all the time
True! Makes it super annoying to watch when the guy is interrupting all the time with random memories, thoughts.
Quit crying. It’s called having a conversation.
I agree. We already know Logic’s story, we want to hear from his guests their stories.
I'm about to be 16, and I have switched many career ideas. To wanting to be a police officer, engineer, or psychologist. Until I did an assignment on researching an artist; that artist was neil druckmann. Through Neil, I realized my passion. I love writing and creating a world that people can relate to and feel connected to the characters and story. Ive been doing it ever since I learned how to read and write.Through research, it made me see another skill of mine directing. Throughout all of school, I've always been put into leadership positions even when I didn't want to be. my teachers always pushed me to be the leader of the group project while I reluctantly agreed. I was good at it. It was stressful because no one ever did their work, but I got it done and did it correctly. I'm really determined to be a writer and director for a video game company, and honestly, I wish I could be there now, but I know I need to work hard to get there and I'll do whatever it takes to get there. Thanks for reading ❤
One day you are going to be interviewed just like this one because you made a difference and this sounds crazy and it should be so keep on doing and it will happen
@SaeedTayeb thank you I appreciate your kind words
@SirJonHarringtonBlumpkinThe8th thank youuu
Hope you get what you aim for my man. Keep grinding!
@@zidanealexander3740 the grind won't ever stop!!
Insightful interview, all the interrupting mid-flow became a pain in the ass but that seems to be part of the deal.
Wow, I never expected this collab. I am tuned in!
Amazing. Thank you for having the guests I really want to hear from and holding conversations with them that feel natural and comfortable.
Would have loved to have heard Neil a bit more
You’ve been killing it with the guests of the Podcast, thanks for bringing everyone on Bobby!
I’m addicted to No Return in TLOU2 Remastered. The story hits like a truck in a good way but it’s also just a smooth and fun video game to play 🤤. Thank you for bringing this guest on!
Did you beat the daily run on grounded difficulty yet?
"Remastered" is a bit of a strech. Looks the fucking same as the standard version.
My brother loves your music Bob (I'm not much of a rap / hip hop guy myself - but I appreciated the shit outta you in Mr. Corman), and I love and am inspired by Neil's work (Part II very much included). So this was, I think, the best interview I've ever seen.
Also, the "Ellie in Hillcrest" line - sick.
Cool interview but allow your guest to talk more bro. We don’t get to see a lot of interviews with Neil Druckmann and I feel like you spent a good portion of this show being the one talking instead of allowing him to talk. I would have loved to hear more about his experiences with TLOU2, especially his ordeal with the hate and also if that negative response now hinders some of his creative direction out of fear that he may once again relive that terrible experience. I adore TLOU2 and it would have been great to hear more about it. Next time, less yappin bro and keep your guest on the mic
Logic talks waaaaaaay to much for an interviewer. Let the guest speak.
No Neil you are arguably one of the best Game directors out there.
its not. His partner built an entire career, while he walks around trying to figure out how to ruin perfectly good businesses.
@@batucenk3997 I have been following his work since high school am 31 years old now. I did my College project on him and Naughty Dog. Either you don’t know nothing about him or you’re just an idiot that judge people by word of mouth. No one is perfect and Neil is certainly not perfect he even say so himself
Bad take @@batucenk3997
@@batucenk3997 I did my college project on Naughty Dog either you don’t know what you’re talking about or just talking out your backside
What's more impressive is playing TLOU2 and not realizing that Logic was even in it. Voice acting is pretty good. Like Nolan North in TLOU1 but on a much smaller scale.
Such a great conversation. Two of my favorite creators.
AWESOME episode! I swear Neil had every ounce of my attention this whole podcast. What a cool pair of creative minds
Was waiting patiently for this one 👏💯
Nice of Neil to interview Logic..
Fr
reading this just as he started yapping ab himself again
Great episode! Hope there's a "PART 2" of this because we wanted to know more of what happened when Neil started pitching TLOU! Just the history is so great to know!
Two of my favorite artists talking about making art. This was a dope conversation.
Man it would be a dream come true if I could be on this podcast one day. I grew up in MoCo the same time that Logic did. I'm surprised we never met each other back then tbh. We are actually the same age as well lol. Anyways, you're my hometown hero bro! It makes me so happy to see you thriving and living your best life.
Love the Pod!!!!!!!
Love the review and comparison of the show. That is spot on. I had to rewatch the show binge style to fully enjoy it. I loved the first time watching but once rewatching 3-4 episodes at a time was much better. Also Neil makes a great point on what you watch first, also similar vibes to if you read the book first your imagination has more to explore versus watching the created movie is more limited.
This was an amazing podcast!
god i love this podcast
One of the best podcasts I’ve ever seen
I ❤️ Logic. I love his podcast! Thanks for always spreading the word of Peace, Love and Positivity!
Thanks for this awesome podcast!
Brilliant podcast. Would love to see Neil come back. You guys vibe so good together
This was an awesome conversation. I want more of this.
I can absolutely relate to learning English because of videogames. I didn’t speak that much until I was like 13-14, but even then I wasn’t that good at it, so I studied for a couple of years and reached a point where I felt comfortable enough and started playing games and watching everything in English, basically. That really helped a lot and now I do believe both my written and spoken English are at a very high level, I can have a conversation virtually as if I were speaking my native language, throwing some slang in there as well lol. Looking forward to visiting the US again in July and speaking some more.
This has inspired me to play the last of us! Cool interview
Such a good game, you’ll love it
Amazing podcast! It was awesome to hear Neil speak about his passion and game dev! Hopefully we get more gaming folks on here!
oh wow as a game developer this one really hit the spot, love both of you guys' work!
Please let Neil TALK MORE. I dont care about rap
This was a great interview hope to see Neil there again after his next game.
Now THIS is one I can’t wait to listen to!
Hey can the editors please edit time stamps in when Neil is actually speaking?? This is insane I'm almost to the end of the video and Neil hasn't said anything other than how he grew up and that's it, barely talked about how he made the games because the whole freaking time logic is explaining to him how much time he has on his hands and that he doesn't want nothing from him but in the same breath will tell him in detail about all the scripts that he's writing and how much he loves being involved in the industry NEIL IS IN or he'll just talk about his own music career, God damn it I clicked on this to hear the freaking man speak, what are wasted opportunity
Crazy he has this much time while also playing 30 games of chess a day...minimum.
Absolutely agree. I just skipped all the parts where the host was talking about himself
@@Rectorn 😆😆 I mean the whole freaking interview sounded like he was tooting his own horn didn't it?
@@NickZheleznov94 yeah I wanted to do that but I couldn't find the parts where Neil was speaking so I had to restart from the beginning and just force myself to listen but oh my God I was getting agitated so bad but Neil doesn't do many interviews so I had to sit through this one
@@ScoundrullonCZcams yeah he is super annoying. I wish he would have just let ND tell his damn story.
This is awesome! Clickered so fast
Hehe
ha! i see what u did there!!! hahahahahaha!!!!!😅
Bro these guests have me shocked!!!
In a good way
Though i absolutely hate many elements of the story in tlou2, i have SO MUCH respect for this man.
these guests are so top tier
My alma mater is FSU as well and I had no idea Neil was an alumni! So cool 😊
Talk about worlds colliding. This may go down as the best podcast in history
Cuckman is your idea of the best podcast ever? lmao
logic was in the second game
@@blinkq_530 I know.
Neil Druckmann’s first story about his upbringing was having a “naughty dog” - so ironic, yet iconic
Logics for the people
This is probably one of the best podcasts I’ve listened to
This is so insane Logic!
Bobby,
This has nothing to do with this pod, I meant to get around to it but life been lifing lol. Anyways, I watched the pod of you and your dad and I knew in a sense what to expect from the stories you have spoke on your music and interviews, but I didn’t expect the feeling and watching you and your father walk through that process was just purely beautiful.. I found some sense of peace in my own with just watching you exercise your feelings and ask to not be interrupted with words. I know that feeling you felt in those moments, I’m glad you were able to grace this moment with your father. More sons need to be able to release some trauma and more fathers need to accept and resolve the trauma they have dealt… I’m now getting closer to touching 30, a long way from when I was just rocking with your mixtapes and watching you live in NYC Webster hall from the under pressure tour. But I now have two children of my own, and I once again am glad to be able to grow older as one of my favorite artists grows older and wiser. I wish nothing but good health and blessings for u and ur family. Enjoying all the different content from the books to pods, discord, and without a doubt the music of course, I’ll be there to support brother.
FINALLY!!! was waiting for your next episode to drop 😍
I respect Neil Druckmann and his incredible work on tlou. I was curious to hear more about his insights and challenges, but you did a great job with this episode.
Came here to say I totally agree with Neil that whichever you see first is often what you like better. I watched the show first and fell in love with the world and characters. So incredible, seeing the struggles and the good and bad in the characters actually changed some life perspectives for me. We loved it so much that my husband and I started playing the game after watching the show. Definitely love them both but if I had to pick I’d pick the show. It just has a special place for me. I wish I could watch it for the first time again, it made me feel all the feels. We are stoked for season 2.
@21:35 WE ARE LISTENING!!!!
Goated podcast great episode
didn’t even know logic made podcasts and the first one I watch is with the creator of the best game of all time. for real such a dope podcast🔥
wow Bobby getting really great people on his pod
Seen it on Spotify it was Great
Logically speaking, I feel it from you both as you’re talking. I’m on the same journey, and I am at that threshold now. What happens next? Don’t know, but I’m excited. All the hard work trying to find some recognition for the craft, unique, in trying to express that feeling. Sick interview. Maybe I can do the test, and watch the show before I play the game 😉🤣
I’m currently writing a thesis on the last of us but it’s been a little bit stagnant lately. This gave me just wanted i needed! Many thanks!
If this is a professional thesis, you'll wanna do enough research until you uncover names like Robert Cogburn.
Spoilers: If your thesis involves, in any way, that Neil Druckmann is a smart or good person, get ready to be shocked! Cogburn's the tip of the iceberg!
@@crazyinsane500 I have indeed noticed some inconsistencies in Druckmann's account of things.. For example, he once said that Bruce Straley helped with a lot of the story of Part 1; in the remake for PS5 and the HBO show, however, they didn't credit Straley. The subreddit The Last of us2 has a lot of opinions against Druckmann, but it's sometimes difficult to discern which ones are true and which are just spurred by discontent and hatred.
Would you care to elaborate on your opinion of Druckmann?
@@nike77155 My opinion on Druckmann is formed largely by those who actually have had to deal with him. There's a lot of surface-level stuff that shows he's genuinely a bad person, but once you start talking with ex-employees (who are VERY candid, it's just that literally nobody has reached out to them due to vested interests not to do so) you'll find he's worse than the surface-level stuff you can find.
Like you point out how Druckmann stopped crediting Straley after Straley's departure? Well it was pretty infamous that he stole credit for Uncharted, which was uniquely Amy Hennig's work, when it came time to promote the Uncharted movie. His whole life is basically that, to which he earned the title "The Hitchhiker." He would always just steal credit from others.
@@crazyinsane500 Thank you for your input. To me, even just the surface evidence suggest that while they handle things okay externally(as far as the public can see), both Hennig and Straley’s departure soon after Druckmann’s rise suggest that there could be some bad blood between them.
My study focuses on the adaptation process of the game to the show. I have no doubt Druckmann is a very talented writer and knows how to tell emotive stories, but it indeed seems that execution-wise, he has some flaws.
The thing that confuses me is that these interviews and most official information say that he wrote the first game; that he came up with the idea of a police officer with a little girl and the Ico game inspired the change in control in the latter part of the game. But it’s just unclear how much creative input he got from Straley. Some even seem to suggest that the story was more of Straley’s idea than Druckmann’s, who wanted to a revenge plot with the first game with Tess as the villain, before they decided to scrap it.
So yeah, it’s unfortunate that there are such inconsistencies with the creators behind such a great story. And Druckmann’s personality flaws, while not necessarily detrimental to the work itself, it does seem to undercut his credibility.
@@nike77155 Oh, well, to clarify that confusion that's mostly historical revisionism. Think on it, do you remember *ever* hearing about Druckmann before Amy Hennig was ousted? Of course not.
And this follows true in interviews for the game. He wasn't *the* writer, he was "part of the team." In the artbook you can find evidence of this, because if he was the writer why did all his ideas keep getting rejected? Coincidentally, why in TLOU2, which it is uncontested that he did write, almost all his rejected ideas made their way into it?
See, he isn't a talented writer, that's a common misconception because people try to cope with how he's ruining the company, thinking he at least got where he was because he was talented. He's not. He's not the author of The Last of Us, he's the author of A Second Chance at Sarah, a story you and nobody else has heard of. You can't even pirate it, and I don't think you can purchase it legitimately because it performed so poorly, but it is a real look at the issues that were always and continue to be there.
Hbomberguy's video on Tommy Tallarico actually touches on (in a general sense) the reasons why Druckmann's credited, but not "the team." It's a common issue in the game industry where people go uncredited, even to this day. Back in the day it was women being totally erased from the history of Street Fighter's development. Today it's everyone else who typed out iconic lines like "He ain't even hurt." Druckmann is the Tommy Tallarico of videogame writing.
Neil's question about whether people who watched the show first will prefer it to the game. I just don't see how that's possible. To me the game is on another planet of quality storytelling. I really liked the show... but its not even close. I can nit pick the show to death for this and that. (Not enough infected) but when it comes down to it, I prefer the characters in the game over the show.
Amazing, thank you for this logic
This is going to be a great watch
Yo Logic, thanks for this interview. I’m in the same exact boat as you. Neil’s/ND’s games have impacted my life greatly. I feel like how you described what it did for you is identical to me. It’s almost uncanny. I’m born in 1990 as well, Jan 30. 8 days after you. I was also 19 when I played Uncharted 2 and holy shit that thing blew me away. There was nothing like it before. I think we were at the prime age to experience that game too. 19, you have a decade of gaming experience prior to it, so when UC2 came out you were old enough to appreciate how crazy that game was. I learned so much from this interview. Some inspirational shit in here for me as an artist as well. Looking forward to Naughty dogs next game. Hopefully a reveal this summer. I know he probably told you what it was off camera. Lucky bastard
Can’t believe I was on the ground floor of this amazing podcast! Been watching since this first one dropped! Every guest is incredibly inspirational!
So 7 episodes?
@@Youngblaise2 This is clearly gunna be a thriving podcast for years to come.
I think many musicians go through what Bob does with music, but most musicians struggle and it costs them every cent they have to keep going.. But then they find other passions, even if its just enjoying video games/film, I wonder how many go into educating themselves about creating video games later in life.
That Ellie in Hillcrest bar 🔥
Can't wait for this one
been WAITING for this episode 🤭😆🌿
Neil created 2 of 3 of the best games I have ever played
The 🐐 is here!
New to the podcast, fan of you logic, i might understand you're new to this i think, but maybe try to hold back your questions and remarks until after the speaker finishes. Idk just my opinion
BRO LOGIC YOUR SKIN LOOKS AMAZING ❤
Neil being a Nintendo kid but currently killing it for PlayStation. There’s a message in that
Love the pod, but can you please fix the fire's frame rate?
There's so much more Logic could've asked about everything. Felt like this was just half of what it could've been.
neil is such a cool dude. very inspiring. whatever he decides to get into i’m sure will be incredible. hopefully tlou3 is in there tho 😅
Great interview ….once this Logic dude is edited out.
I love you logic but you interrupt the man too much, specially when he gets so excited and gets so close on his highs on what he’s talking about. I’m sure you can find a better time in the end of the conversation to jump in. Just some constructive criticism. Much love.
Edit: other than that I loved this. It was the best. The university part was very new and inspiring.
Are u joking?? I wanted to hear more from logic, he barely spoke?? Neil was like me me me me oh and more me. Logic literally had to interrupt otherwise the whole damn podcast would have been Neil talking. This guy is too self absorbed when Logic is so interested in what he has to say. Neil is giving bad energy
@@User99887x100% opposite. I was drawn in and engaged when Neil was talking about his history with school and getting into the industry only to have Logic interrupt and take time to share examples of how he can relate. That is certainly a normal thing to do and welcomed in this setting, but by the end I felt like we were about 50% at best into Neil's story and really wanted to hear more about how his career took off and really the making of The Last of Us at all.. never even got details on that. Logic is new to this so I hope he is getting some of these stories and what not out of his system now because often times podcast hosts will retread the same stories and anecdotes that are new to the people they're talking to but very much old news for the listeners.
Omg!!!! No way!!I’m excited for this podcast! This man is the best guest so far 🎮 so happy to see this🙌
woke up at 3 am to discover this gem
This podcast has been amazing ! Please have Andy Hull on !!!
Neil seemed offended after Logic basically said TLoU game shits on the show. Dawg, the show was just a condensed speedrun of the game with some questionable actor choices (mainly Pedro playing Joel). I only enjoyed like 3 episodes.
I wasn't a huge Naughty Dog fan as a kid coming up playing games in the 90s/early 00s...
But that PS3 catalog thoughhh🔥🔥
Cannot believe this!!
I think this was an enjoyable episode for sure but If Bobby wants to improve as an interviewer I think he needs to loosen his grip on asking about trauma to every guest all the time, I would have loved to know more about the music in Neil’s games such as using ice cube in the last of us 2 and those kinds of things that connect the both of them
Stand down!
We need Neil on Scared Symbols.
Colin already said Neil would never do it.
Lol I always felt just like Neil about not having enough life experience to write novels. Especially when you start looking at many famous Novelists and what they did before writing books and how that heavily influenced their work.
I love neil druckmann and TLOU - cant wait to hear all the insights in this pod!!
He barely even talked about TLoU tbh :(
@@RealTalkAlexVforreal. Logic really wanted to tell Neil about himself rather than ask questions
I would recommend listening to the Directors commentary from the TLOU2. Very insightful towards the writing and directing process of the game.
Neil Druckmann fired people for reporting his best friend, Robert Cogburn, to HR over his best friend sexually harassing people.
Still a fan?
I like to think it’s not a green screen and the fire is just outside of the fireplace. Lol
No lie I love it. I’m an editor I get it 😂
@10:29 what game is he talking about? Sim city or sin city? Bc i dont see how sim city inspired with TLOU?
A legend in the Gaming Industry. People really don't have a grasp on how taxing game development is and Naughty Dog is on another echelon altogether. I think at the very least, he'll do this New IP and Part 3. Beyond that, I wouldn't blame him at all for feeling run down at that point no matter how much he loves what he does.
Funny he said uncharted 2 was the most fun for him and I felt it when I played the Uncharted Trilogy. You can tell their was alot more love put into it the designers outdid themselves for sure.
I actually did not know Logic played the guy Ellie gets the Gyatt from.
Leisure Suit Larry inspired game confirmed as ND's next IP
This is the greatest interview with Neil ever. Neil never looks that comfortable. Perhaps because he’s always a representative of Sony and the games media is looking for game information above all else.