How Dream Became A Target - A Reflection On Stan Culture | TRO
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The Right Opinion: How Dream Became A Target - A Reflection On Stan Culture | TRO
0:00 - Surfshark Sponsorship
1:58 - Introduction
8:08 - Fever Dream
14:05 - Parasociety
22:16 - Loyalty
27:56 - Influence
34:02 - Timebomb
41:43 - Countdown
48:29 - $ell Out
54:37 - Running Down A Dream
1:02:40 - Bad Dream
1:11:22 - Rinse and Repeat
1:17:14 - The Mask
1:24:15 - Human
1:30:46 - Intentions
1:36:11 - Provocative
1:46:12 - Stan Culture
1:53:38 - Dream Vs. The World
2:02:20 - Finale
2:09:39 - Conclusion & Credits
Dream is a Minecraft CZcamsr, he started his channel in 2014, assuming the moniker of “DreamTraps”, and although it didn’t take him too long to hit 1,000 subs, his channel stagnated after that, and although he’s on record doing a little gaming with his friends, and interacting on Twitter, these few years seem pretty uneventful by a CZcamsr’s standard. However, this all changed in 2019, where Minecraft was experiencing a bit of a renaissance amongst online communities, and creators alike.
However, it was also a refreshed sense of interest, not necessarily based in nostalgia, and this created a gap for new creators to rise up and fill the increased demand for Minecraft based content. Dream was one of those eager creators, and he wasn’t just any old chump mooching off its popularity, he was a seasoned and experienced patron of the game, and his skills were regularly showcased in the content he produced, which often revolved around challenges that tested his in-game ability, as well as his rather popular Minecraft Manhunt series. Although he wasn’t regarded as a force of personality, his proficiency with the game at hand was highly admirable, and as more people tuned in, his channel picked up momentum, though I’m not sure anyone could have quite predicted where he would be today.
You see, in the space of two years, he went from a thousand subscribers or so to over twenty million, which I think is what some would call “blowing up”. He streams with a crew known as the “Dream Team”, which includes old and new friends alike, he uploads on a semi-regular basis, has various successful side hustles. It would be fair to take a glance at his channel and say he’s doing alright for himself, but is it the full story?
Such a great amount of success, in such a short amount of time is certainly a lot to adjust to, alongside the increased sense of influence and responsibility you hold. However, it’s nothing that creators online aren’t used to, is it?
For more... Watch the video!
*Important Credits and Notes Below* Read if you can.
CAVEAT 1: After some criticism of his first Pastebin, Dream did send a more direct apology to the mods (web.archive.org/web/20210602082611/pastebin.com/F76HAfy0 ) where he does say "sorry" multiple times. The reason I missed this was due to the fact it was posted on his Discord as opposed to other social medias and therefore didn't receive too much publicity. However, it was discussed on Reddit and I should have seen it there, so I'm sorry for missing that. Although seemingly received better by some parties, this still met mixed responses from speedrunning community (www.reddit.com/r/speedrun/comments/nqiiu7/dream_apologises_to_the_speedrun_community/ ) and I feel I missed out on a chance to discuss that. This doesn't really change my criticism of his first, and more public statement, however, it would have definitely nuanced my thoughts on the matter of his apologies. I'm really disappointed I missed that.
CAVEAT 2: in “Intentions” I talk about the criticism Dream received from people who felt he had put off streaming during Pride Month until he was called out for it. Although I still feel the same about the optics of it, I don't want to imply that he didn’t actually raise money. The onus is on me for being ill-judged when using the word “streaming”, because he did stream and raise money through other platforms, just not on his main Twitch, and I should have been more scrupulous when researching/analysing that criticism. The money raised will change lives and I don’t want to understate that.
*I FORGOT TO THANK THEM VERBALLY BUT THANK YOU MERRYWEATHER COMICS FOR THE INTRO* : czcams.com/users/MerryweatherComics / czcams.com/users/MerryweatherComics
CREDITS BELOW: It seems that CZcams only currently integrates US registered charities, as my one isn't a US listed I would assume *only British individuals will be able to donate* , however, I will leave a link here in case you are interested: donation.macmillan.org.uk/ . Sorry for the delay between videos, unfortunately there have been some unexpected changes that have taken a while to adjust to, not quite where I'd like to be but we're working on it. Hope you enjoy the video all the same.
Cordwit's video: czcams.com/video/CACIAQrByJk/video.html
Stand Up Maths' video: czcams.com/video/8Ko3TdPy0TU/video.html
*EDITING CREDITS HERE CHECK EM OUT* (thank you CZcams for not allowing me to post them again): docs.google.com/document/d/1Q8s9ifEAiyTYbWqMyZq8g4WskdFd1Pk4m4sf5332kOk/edit?usp=sharing
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References: docs.google.com/document/d/17VREXYyD7NEgVjLtb-JdU35IDyfV8jOqlbugG5CVgCw/edit?usp=sharing
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Ok
Her channel's kinda cringe but good video overall, keep up the great work tro
Nobody:
Me (a German): 11:34 MONTEEEE
Thats what the mattress
Someone in another video said that Dream is the definition of a man who was NOT ready to be famous. And i’m inclined to agree. I don’t hate Dream, I in fact feel bad for him, but at the same time I don’t. It’s very complicated.
I feel the same
Grew too fast to be able to get used to it
I just think he grew too fast. He didn’t have enough time to actually grow slowly with his community and experience things slows, he instead had all the hate comments and the loving comments all at once. Everyone was talking about him and even though he appreciates and loves his fans and stuff, it’s just too much and he can’t control his fan base.
@@undercoverfangirl5491 i agree, most content creators take a while to become as famous as Dream is, they get to grow the community at a slow pace which in turn can make the community more calm and kinder due to the fact that they stayed withsaid creatort
Yeah it kind of happen to douchetubers too who get quickly famous solely because of their money and capital. These people never experience humility from a humble beginning that it didn't prepare them from the coming wave. From what I've seen it only became worse, let's just hope that it's just a symptom and not a full blown incurrable cancer.
Early in my fandom experiences I saw a video from markiplier telling his fans that they have harassed and threatened his girlfriends or potential girlfriends so much he is scared of being close to anyone. He called them out on shipping him with his CZcamsr friends. He told his fans that they need to police themselves and stop each other from hurting people like that and ruining his and others’ relationships.
I’m only partway through watching this video but it’s reminding me of that experience of realizing that fan actions can cause chaos and harm to real life people. Dream very well could have talked directly to his fans and told them to knock it off and be nicer, but he failed.
Seriously. All it takes is a slap on the wrist and stern face to straighten people out, but he can't even do that much
Mark's relationships with fellow CZcamsr Sean (Jacksepticeye) was strained due to the shipping of them. They have started to do vid collabs again but for awhile both kept their seperate ponds. You can tell the shipping effected their friendship for awhile. Dream rose to fame too quickly and aside from his obvious fragile ego, weaponzing his fanbase when he's called out (i.e. the cheating scandal) He really could've handled it better, but he doesn't he just keeps being defensive. I think he needs to take a break from Twitter and reflect.
Dream has said dozens of times to not be a shithead, yet that's never acknowledged? Why?
@@aff77141 Are you just lying or have you seriously done no research?
@@lumibean7494 He was 100% being not the smartest in the speedrun drama, however it's also important to note that he never specifically stated "go hate" and said multiple times in the same situation to not hate, and he's gotten much better and hasn't been in drama for several months now, so you're pulling "he just keeps being defensive" from thin air.
the weird thing is that dream's like- 23 yet people like ranboo (who experienced peak fame at 16-17) managed to set boundaries and handle fame a million times better than dream. when i was in the fandom dream had over 20 different controversies that he handled terribly. ranboo had one. and he immediately apologized for it and owned up to it- and it wasn't even that bad. everyone who was part of that community forgave him for it. it kind of goes to show the different maturity levels going on
dream's tripped bigtime, he should have stayed in the gmod dark rp
@@TauTauofSkalga honestly
Ranboo yes, but also Tommyinnit. He started blowing up at that age too and he got huge but he still handled himself professionally and maturely. I get that people are different and all but man. How could Tommy be that much better at managing fame.
@@pidgedidge tommy also had his issues but on a whole he's still doing better than dream has like huh???
@@AmphibiousCreature876 tbh i VERY much doubt tommy and ranboo are nt. like i do not think that's a factor. also most people are not ready for the type of fame they get especially to the level that those three have obtained. i can understand your last point, but i honestly think some people are better equipped for fame than others and dream ain't one of them
Dream: "Doxxing is no big deal if you're a complete nobody."
The internet: "ok bet"
that’s not what he meant lol. and i’m not a dream stan. he meant if you have 7 followers, the likelihood you will get doxxed is incredibly low, because it’s hard for someone w a small accounts tweets to get seen, aka harder for a crazy stan to notice
@@hello-wl7pk Doxxing is never ok, no matter if you're a small account or not. And Dream has been literally targeting small accounts like that. He's a big name now, he should know better.
@@hello-wl7pk this isn’t actually what he said. he said that if an account with only 7 followers got doxxed, the likelihood of something bad happening (i.e, someone sending a bomb/anthrax in the mail, people appearing at your house, etc.) is extremely small. which is incorrect. the account in particular that got doxxed is a minor who is apart of the LGBT community who lives in a red state, of whom were hiding from their abusive parents. with this information, anyone can email their employer and out them, placing them at considerable risk. people can contact their abusive parents and leak their address. it doesn’t matter if you only have 7 followers, it only takes one completely unhinged person to do this. hope this helped clear things up
@@hello-wl7pk I've seen people with one follower still get dogpiled on
@@hello-wl7pk >and im not a dream stan
Doesnt seem like it
Cheating at a speedrun isn't some terrible crime, but Dream's behavior during the whole thing really speaks a lot about him as a person. He cheated, attacked the people calling him out for it, then pretended it was an "accident" that he cheated (and spent months covering it up).
This speedrunner Karl Jobst analysed the whole situation and Dream fully coorporated and gave him access to his emails etc and he came to the conclusion that it probably actually was a really, really dumb accident
czcams.com/video/G3Yzk-3SZfs/video.html (Warning, the video is over 1h, but if you're reading this you're watching a 2h video so whatever)
I've went on a bit of a speedrunning content binge recently and this came up and it was really interesting and a lot of stuff I hadn't heard. I'd only vaguely heard about the drama as it was happening.
That guy like I said is a speedrunner himself, so I don't think he'd cover for a cheater so it's his honest opinion informed by a lot more knowledge and access to information other commentators like H3 didn't have as the situation was unfolding.
He also talked to the modder guy about why he didn't come forward and imagine you're responsible for maybe the biggest twitter drama of the year in your community, and nobody knows but you. Idk about anyone else, but my anxiety tells me "take it to your grave" and it seems for him it was similar
I personally don't agree with the he attacked people for it and tried to cover it up,it wasn't a cover up, neither did he attacked people,I'm pretty sure the "attack" you were talking about is the time he didn't realized and people attacked him for "cheating" when those reasons people have weren't even the thing he accidentally cheated for,the reason it was accidental is because he didn't realized,you can't say someone tried to covered it up when they didn't even realized it,and you can't say he attacked people when he was defending himself during the time period he was accused for other stupid reasons rather then what it really was.He also had grown over time and has said that he realized how reckless he was acting during the situation and he would handle things like this better in the future.One drama doesn't speak volume to a whole person,that doesn't make any sense.
@@DukeDukeGo yeah i saw that video and to be honest i feel that that made him worst, but at the same time i understand him. is like i think i would do the same, but is not an excuse. Is like trying to do something that you think is inocent, but you end up making a disaster, then when you notice instead of saying sorry you point fingers and try to cover up things. is relatable but at the same time you can see how you make things worse over time
@@alexbluer
its a lesson that if you need help, you get help. his music video shows that his mindset avoids help, seeing pills as crutches rather than aid. essay videos like these also shows that there's a huge chance that dream acted alone and committed these mistakes alone, seemingly never asking for advise or help.
kids, if you're in a spot of bother, don't be afraid to ask for help from people you trust. preferably those older than you and those with enough experience and wisdom to know what to do when mistakes happen. kids asking help from other kids don't usually end well.
@@RaveDecoy242 i just wanted to comment and say i appreciate you talking about this. a lot of people (especially those with social anxiety) are too scared to ask for help (or like you mentioned for Dream's case, avoid it) or think they'll be judged or misunderstood and addressing it is very very important, and i admire you for that. :)
as someone who used to be an avid dream fan, i can say with confidence that 99% of the problematic shit about his fanbase is that so many of them are young kids who are in "baby's first fandom". So many dream fans are only just beginning to learn what fandom etiquette is- how to tag fanworks, how to respectfully talk to fanartists, and generally just how to act around other fans. Just the other day i had to politely tell someone off for spamming me with requests to finish this fancomic series i was making. I'm a young adult, i have my classes to think about too, yknow? anyway, hope isnt all lost. give it a few years and probably most fans will settle down by then
I've seen some adults and teens act so dumb and stupid in the twitter platform and i cant believe that they would call themselves fans after breaking boundaries/disrespectful towards other people, i dont think young kids would even bother, in my opinion at least
Stans will slowly start to fizzle out of dreams community because once they get older and aren't going through puburty anymore their batshit obssession will usually fade away
@@ohmywht1437 its because in the USA all these groups like BLM and the Feminist groups don't really have anything to fight for anymore and thus turn to twitter and start SJWing
omg that must be it
@@ZeroDim ..blm doesnt have anything to fight for ? are u ok in the head
Dream is 22 but he might as well be 15 because of how internet fame stunted his growth as a person immensely. Like seriously, some people don't have the mental fortitude to handle large scale fame and it can be detrimental to not only them but also their fans if you don't establish boundaries immediately.
a beautiful quote i heard once is that every person has a moment where they stop growing. Maybe it's when an actor strikes it rich, and doesn't need to try anymore. maybe it's when a youtuber finds himself surrounded by a constant stream of praise and approval. Whatever it is, he will continue to receive the validation , no matter his actions
Think the perfect comparison of a youtuber who got in the same position as Dream but handled his rise MUCH better was Corpse Husband. They're almost the same age, had a jump in fame because of a game, and at some point gained a fanbase both good and bad. He didn't let his fans control what he was gonna do, he didn't interact too much with them, and did not flaunt towards haters. He actually showed that if Dream just didn't interact too much, his fanbase would not have been this toxic.
HE'S 22???
I am around his age and barely feel like an adult. just because ur an adult legally doesn't mean you are mentally esp if ur neurodivergent or suffer from mental illness as well. people say to act his age but forget that people in our generation have been thru a lot of trauma and the pandemic stunted me a lot and a big part was being online a lot
not defending him I don't even like him, everything I learned about him is against my will lol, but i do feel sorry for him for some reason
I remember when Tehnoblade said he had cancer, and every Dream stan in existance said "He deserves it" or "That's what you get for defying Daddy Dream!" It's honestly sickening,
it's like that for kpop as well
Those are the ones who deserve it! But it wasn't every Dream stan, just the ones that have a very loud mouth.
Must be the circles one is in because I heard absolutely nothing besides people being sad and offering support. Techno and Dream were great friends. I definitely did see things from antis though.
@@lightnightsky I definitely saw hateful statements like the ones this commenter said from dream stans, but it wasn't "every dream stan in existence". I wouldn't even go as far as to call it the majority of dream stans, especially with the amount of overlap between the two fandoms
Well now we can let techno rest in peace
dream is a person whose fan base and detractors fascinate me more than the man himself. with both sides having such extreme beliefs to the point that they either want to destroy him or that they worship him like the 2nd coming of christ. the fan/detractor culture surrounding him definitely is intriguing
well it isnt that odd if you really think about it: you really are exaggerating here but the fans do like them, some of them. the detractors arent that different from that guy in school who would bully you for playing minecraft or something (or you being the bully idk); the overall nerd-bully culture i think has more to do with the nerd's obsessive behavior rather than the stereotypical smarts. the whole "want to destroy him" is an exaggeration as well, but you can see how it does fit the bully archetype and it makes sense. it is like when people make fun of like fortnite or something, cause they feel superior to the perceived majority, and they feel superior to younger people (in the internet, both are thought about as one, im not sure why, maybe younger people have more interaction maybe it is just that there are more younger folk on the internet than older folk). so it is somewhat nonsensical but it isnt really that strange.
Look up BPD and you'll understand some of their reactions.
It's so awkward being a moderate fan because I see both ends of the spectrum and going 'Christ can you chill?' to both of them. I like Dream and his content and some of the fan content is extremely freaking good, but I don't make up sexualities revolving around him and pretend I have schizophrenia and claim I see him. I of course understand if people don't like his content. But the reaction that some people have jumped to- 'Dream said his community was great because he won an award?? I want to kill him' is so disgusting. It was so disturbing stumbling on one of those videos because even though it was a meme (Peter Griffin saying 'I just want to talk to him' while wielding a gun) the comments seemed to genuinely believe he was everything wrong with the world.
It's the same kind of shit I put up with in other fandoms to be honest, but usually the simultaneous obsessive love and hate is spread out to the fans or to a larger group rather than one person.
@@ElanaVital83 that is not related though
@@stjeep It is very much related when you realize the level of those who indulge in stan behavior tend to be prone to having porous ego boundaries and associating their sense of self with the target of their standom.
That's why they're so overtly invested and fixated: their celebrity idol is where they're defining self identity. That's why they get so angry and fight so ruthlessly.
I've talked to many stans who have informed me of having a formal diagnosis. I think it's just a byproduct of being on the internet.
My dad is a Mathematics Professor and he’s given lectures in Universities all over the world. When Dream’s defence came out for his faked speed run I showed my dad the numbers and he literally laughed and asked me if someone was seriously trying to claim they were genuine.
smart dad
Oof 😅
really thats so cool.....its for sure too complex to explain but what was factor that was so obvious(im a math idiot and hav no idea of the gameplay either lol) but jea smart dead
I'm a mathematician-- can you link me?
czcams.com/video/8Ko3TdPy0TU/video.html
I’ve been berated by dream stans for discussing how I disliked how he was acting. Dream has grown to be a cultish leader of many young fans who take it a step too far. And there’s no end in sight.
Dream is a narcissist and he's finally reaping what he sowed. If you defend and side with your army of immature children, all you have left are immature children. I don't feel bad that they are all turning against him for what seems like false allegations. Karma is a bitch.
Well I have some good news for you, compared to early 2021 no one really stans Dream anymore.
I'm so sorry about that mann.
Hearing TRO say "daddy dream" triggered my fight or flight response 💀💀💀
It Triggered my Flight or Flight response.
dream is just an example of why it is deeply important for creators to set bounderies
I miss the times when CZcamsrs straight out told you "we are NOT friends". Because they aren't our friends.
@@Nekoszowa I absolutely agree
@@Nekoszowa There is this one content creator I love. Sometimes she can seem harsh and "mean" towards her fans but this is because of this. She says that her fans are not her fans and should not be treated as such. When people cross those boundaries she set, she'll straight up tell them to fuck off. A lot of content creators now don't really have that attitude (at least the "we're not your friends" kind) which causes these kinds of things to happen.
So glad that i don't know his channel become a meme...
Or even just make it clear to their fans that they do not condone bullying others on their behalf. Much less depend on it as Dream did, whether for money or ego.
"I tell them to stop and they stop." as a person who's seen a lot from dreams toxic side of his fanbase, no they do not.
It's like these people have free will and he can't just take over them like a hive mind. So weird.
@@anaalina5964 but saying you tell your fans to stop and they do is incredibly ignorant and honestly delusional. I don't hate dream, I don't think he can control his fanbase into a hIvEmInD (wow shocking). I just think he needs to stop acting like they listen. he just needs to reword things better. instead of "Oh WeLl I sAiD tO StoP SO tHeY dO."
@@anaalina5964 yeah but like a government, you should put up rules and those who don't follow them should be outlawed and banned so that it isn't just in a perpetual state of anarchy that could lead not only the government into an unwanted war, but for the said government itself to crumble and replace with an even worse yet somehow more stable one
I remember Jacksepticeye told people to stop making explicit artwork of him and Markiplier. A really big fanartist who made a name off of that kind of artwork legitimately flipped her lid, sending hate towards him and the fans. She eventually just said the characters were "original" slightly changed their names, despite just being the exact same caricatures she was using previously.
@@GummyDinosaursify are you talking about Cartoonjunkie? I remember they made a lot of that kind of artwork back in 2015-2016 when septiplier was a thing, I don't remember if they did any of the hate towards JSE fans If theres any links to that happening I'd love to see them in all honesty I haven't followed them since 2016.
A while ago, someone called Dream out on Twitter (I can't find the specific tweet, but it's been told it was criticism towards him) and he, knowing that his fans would harp on anyone that mildly dislikes him, replied to the tweet. Not a couple of days later, they set their twitter account to be private, because they got doxxed and sent death threats. This person was in a dangerous place and Dream's fans could've endangered this person even more-so. Then, after hearing about this, Dream made his own tweet on his private account (no clue why he would have that in the first place), saying that he finds enjoyment from seeing people deactivate/private their accounts, not understanding the gravity of that person's situation. He compared it to going to a petting zoo of sorts. In a livestream he did, he said that "The chances of you being doxxed and something happening are very low", so he doesn't even care about the fact that his fanbase is literally committing crimes. (In the same livestream, he did say he doesn't support doxxing and he has stated that multiple times, but he still openly finds enjoyment in watching people go private because of him, so this means kinda nothing in comparison to the stuff he's done. Actions speak louder than words and junk)
Dream was also accused of making a racist edit (specifically about the KKK) when he was 16 (originally, he said he was 14 when he made the edit, but that was debunked) and instead of saying "no I didn't" or "yes I did" he said that he *"might* have made an edit with the KKK in the footage".
He has failed to take accountability for his actions over and over again. It really shows when he fails to learn from his mistakes. It's upsetting to see how much he's hurt so many people in the past and yet people continue to support him despite him being wrong over and over again.
I wanna clear some things up because a lot of this is wildly untrue. The person you mentioned actually did not get doxxed and set the account to private a minute after the tweet. They later said they weren’t doxxed and instead boosted a dox of Dream that came out during it.
ALSO! One more thing to note about that person. The tweet was wildly homophobic and written underneath DREAM’S COMING OUT TWEET. They were not criticizing him. Many of the people who claimed to be doxxed after he responded weren’t being critical. They were being bigots and their tweets contained homophobic abuse towards Dream.
Secondly, about the doxx thing he said on stream- yea, that’s not the best way to word things because I can kind of see what he was trying to say but also it was a pretty bad statement.
Thirdly, about the edit. Dream did admit to it, the age doesn’t matter in the way you think it is. Because it isn’t automatically malicious that he got his age wrong. Dream can say he was 14 and just be incorrectly remembering how old he was when it was made. Dream did apologize and take accountability for the edit and even wrote another paste bin that was- honestly a WAY better response than I think a lot of people make when these things happen because it was very direct and called it what it was. Now, where age DOES matter is how old he was when it was made (a teenager living a conservative household) and who he is now. How he is, truly, trying to change from who he was back then. He did a lot of growing up. You don’t have to forgive him, or accept the apology but he has committed to changing. I don’t mean to spout this kind of stuff but I’m a firm believer in letting someone learn and grow. Especially because Dream is still a pretty young guy.
ballslover32
@@ColaLoser He is 22 years old. That's old enough to know that you should not be okay with your own fanbase doxxing people who say something as light as them not liking you. He needs to do a fuck ton more growing up if he still thinks that doxxing people is okay as long as it's not someone who's him or that he agrees with.
@@ColaLoser I wonder how you could justify Dream not setting boundaries when his crazy stans drew NSFW gore drawings of his 14 year old sister, made a bunch of LGBTQ kids get doxxed and exposed to their homophobic parents, and acts like all his fans are okay and its the huRr duRR haTeRs that are toxic? I believe in growing up but to do that you need to take responsibility for your actions, which in Dream's case, he takes zero action and tweets about liking to sniff his cat's butt.
i really appreciate my inclusion :)
for some additional context:
-dream and i had exchanged pleasant dms prior to our twitter feud, and I had no reason to think we were on bad terms.
-additionally, i waited to tweet that I had won the giveaway until after a real winner had been confirmed on twitter. the joke being that I obviously had not won.
-in the months following everything, i expressed a positive attitude towards stans on the whole, because I didn't at the time think that the harassment I had experienced was reflective of stans overall. though, i've come to doubt that in the year since, given that I *still* experience harassment, even now after dream has apologized to me.
all in all this is an absolutely brilliant video, though. its a really measured analysis of everything, and its super impressive. just wanted to add in some additional details for anyone interested! :)
ratio !
@@dhooth Can you guys please shut up about ratio?
@@M16_Akula-III i am one person
@@dhooth delete your account
@@dhooth
L+ ratio+not funny+ bald
I learned a long time ago to not blindly follow creators. They are people just as susceptible to the same problems that occur in our own lives. Creators are also not perfect. They make mistakes and sometimes say things in the heat of the moment. And sometimes fandom just gets taken too far.
That's just called growing up. Reject totalitarian collectivism, embrace individualism
watched f1 the past few months. no difference to what you said.
Well, yeah
Yep, creators can be wrong. Like this video for example, which fraught with misinformation even if it is well made
@@simplymarvelousliving TRO is very good at being speculative based on information and being only declarative based on provable facts. I'm curious as to the misinformation, if you care to elaborate?
i think the biggest problem is that dream's attitude created a 'you're either with us or against us' mentality among his viewers. in an attempt to be closer to his fans he alienated not only them but himself from outsiders. his relationship with his fans is a really good example of why parasocial relationships are so harmful in the first place. he isn't mature enough to admit when he's wrong and continuously decides to hide behind his army of fans that are ready to fight for him at any moment. people started out not liking his fans because of their obsessive behavior, before moving onto disliking him because of his childish attitude. i just find it odd because there are plenty of creators in his direct circle that stay out of drama and yet they still foster this parasocial relationship with their fans because it benefits them financially. i don't want to give him too much credit but i can't help but think he's normalizing this type of interaction with fans
i mean of COURSE he wants to be with his fans, he gets shit every single day and at one point he just got done with it and only wanted to focus on his fans for his mental health.
Can I just add to that, this' why I'm a bit leery about vtubers?
It's all the problematic implications of a parasocial relationship, but now with somebody pretending to be a fictional character.
@@Superboologan1 vtuber fanbase is very peaceful compared to this and i love it very much
@@Just_Flipy there’s a difference between appreciating fans and feeding into obsessive behavior, and he clearly does the latter
@@Superboologan1 i agree ! but at the same time i feel like it’s less harmful in the sense that the person they’re obsessing over isn’t real and they don’t have to bend over backwards to excuse their shitty actions
I cannot for the life of me comprehend that man's obsession with defending the word "stan" as not meaning "stalker fan", which is what it literally has always meant and has always been used as. Like, bestie, literally just say fan. That's clearly what you mean.
[in a stage whisper] it's because he cultivates a parasocial relationship with his fanbase and tries to downplay the toxicity of his community because he's allergic to holding himself accountable
Because it doesn’t mean "stalker fan?" It’s from an Eminem song where a fan named Stan sends Eminem a bunch of letters before killing himself and his girlfriend because he didn't get Eminem's responses in a timely manner.
So really it’s even worse and more loaded than "stalker fan"
@@emcustard My guy why do you think Eminem chose the name stan
Or, alternatively, instead of using a made-up term concocted in an internet echo chamber, why can’t they just use the word “fanatic”? It has existed for years and means the exact same thing. The word “fan” is also probably derived from that root word anyway.
Uhm no majority of people use the word differently or do not know the origin.
One small critique TRO: an apology that is retracted is not still an apology. If Dream took down an apology video then he also took back whatever apology he gave. Otherwise extremely enlightening video covering a background drama I hadn't the energy to look deeper into. Cheers for all the work you put in and the high level of objectivity you strive to maintain!
"Uhm, excuse me, but the people who are slavishly loyal to me and obsessed with my approval have NEVER been mean to ME, so I don't understand how you can have a problem with them attacking you." - Dream, re: Stans
Lol it’s crazy how Dream’s sense of mortality is based entirely on what’s good for him alone, and how he’s so open about that.
“The people who hate me are so much more toxic than the people who love me and hate everyone else.”
@@wingedhussar8552 narcisisms
@@wingedhussar8552 AND THE WINGED HUSSARS ARRIVED
that's not even true lmao remember when the supposed pics of dream leaked some of his "fans" have been mean to him
i felt so bad for the guy in the pics
can you please tell me where he said that? /genq
Man, I still remember the days when Dream was an up-and-coming phenomenon, crazy how everything's changed since then
@just do it Okay then.
I remember him at 50K subs. Not even a lie
Dream is gross
@@dvreaux why? :v
He’s still famous and at most, a decent creator with just a few mistakes in his name and a rabid fan base
I don't know why I just watched a two hour video about drama I don't care about from a CZcamsr I'm barely interested by a CZcamsr that I haven't heard of before, but I gotta say, this was incredibly well-put together and informative, analyzed intelligently, and touched on many many points that I hadn't considered or known about before. Excellent work on this. Thanks a ton for putting all the info in one place.
I always fall into rabbitholes of watching TRO videos because he writes them and sets them up so well, even though most of the times I don't even know them.
@@lightnightsky There's something about TRO's presentation that makes listening to him enough of a reason to waste two hours for it.
"I don't know, and I don't care about who's being talked about but listening to him speak is a treat in and of itself."
Dream’s extreme rise in popularity in a very short time is probably why so much of his public relations feels immature and unprofessional. Many of the top creators on youtube such as Markiplier, Pewdiepie, and JackSepticEye, all gained a following overtime, and they were able to better transition and grow as people as their followings grew. They did have hiccups from time to time but it’s growth none the less.
The problem with Dream however was just how unprecedented his rise in popularity was. Rarely anybody could generate a following that huge in a short amount of time. It’s a fairly recent phenomenon that’s driven by the way internet culture as evolved over the years. I can remember back when it was groundbreaking news that Psy’s Gangam style was the first CZcams video ever to break 1 billion views, where as nowadays there’s countless over videos that easily break that number.
Because of Dream’s fast growing numbers, he wasn’t able to cope with it in the same way other large creators have done. It’s not possible for a human being to comprehend that amount of people who love what you do. And I think his unpreparedness to handle such a huge audience is what lead to all of the troubles he got in. Most people at his size would usually have a publicist or access to some kind of PR team. But it’s clear that Dream doesn’t have any of that, and perhaps if he did, many of these situations could have been avoided.
I may have been a bit harsh when I made my own comment where I largely criticised his way of dealing with controversy, because I would’ve probably made the same mistakes if not more had I blown up seemingly overnight like he did. I, too, often react with my feelings before thinking. I do still believe I could’ve handled or completely avoided some of the things he walked himself right into.
Sure, but how is it that the actual kids in his circle that gained a similarly insane following handled it infinitely better
I’ve seen this before and I’ll repeat it here:
“This is baby’s first fandom.”
Of course, it doesn’t apply to everyone in the Dream/DSMP fandom, but there are people who have never really been online in a community until now, and it shows. That being said, it’s all a learning experience, and as time goes on, they’ll grow out of it _hopefully._
Yes I have totally seen that! Being in the community there are so many young kids who are new to fandom culture and who don’t understand boundaries or understand some of the stuff older fans talk about. I’ve seen plenty of kids in the fandom who don’t understand things but because the creator they like talks out of there butt they do too. Misinformation is such a big thing I’ve seen and honestly it’s sad that this is their first fandom. The mcyt creators don’t have good boundaries and because of that as people onto new fandoms they don’t have an understanding of boundaries with creators. I hope these kids move onto better fandoms and I hope that they don’t ruin them.
Hopefully they do....
^^^THIS. any online fanbase big enough will have large parts of their community be newbies to fandom culture and act in the most bizarre ways. i have hope for the dsmp fanbase though, a lot of their more influential fanartists in their community (sadist, wolfy, etc) are fandom veterans (ie have been in large fanbases before) so they have good role models to begin with
I grew out of it, so there's at least a little hope for them
it’s like homestuck in the modern era
I watch Philza regularly on Twitch, and I think he has a really good perspective on the whole thing. I’m not sure when it was, but I remember him talking on stream about how Dream just doesn’t know how to set boundaries for himself, let alone millions of other people (something that Phil is VERY steadfast about himself). It was sometime last year (I think in the middle of the speedrunning drama), but when he said that it really stuck with me and gave a new perspective on the way Dream reacts to things.
I remember that stream & yeah the boundaries thing is spot on. I think at some point Will said he thinks Dream should hire a social media manager or something along the lines of that. He has like,,, 4 twitter accounts & having all of them public facing/accessible to his viewers is def not good for him
He did "finally" did like some of his contemporaries and wrote a lost of boundaries, but it was kinda hidden on a merch drop
Oml yes
Phil is just,,, mm i love his streams
Exactly, because his fanbase are so young and a part of the cancel culture, so if he were to say something like “don’t use me as a basis for your profile” that would mean that he hates his fans
Well like, Dream is or was a speedrunner, speedrunners grind like 10 hours a day and shit, and ya'll expect him to be a God in socializing and just moonwalk over every controversy? Hell nah
I can’t believe that he really proposed the take of “my stans are nice to ME so ofc they’re good.”
Props to Tommy for explaining ACAB in a respectful way!
Thank you so much for letting us make an intro to your video!! Was really fun to work together, and extra fun to get to write the script! ❤️
🪤🪤
Wait… I know you…
THE INTRO ART WAS RLLY GOOD YOU DID GREAT :DD
Imo it was kinda cringe but I respect the hustle and the rest of the video and the creator of the video so I won't sweat it, I won't lie an say keep up the *good* work but keep up the hustle.
Nice artwork you did for the intro 👍
one thing you can say about dream, is that if you’re constantly on the internet you definitely have a reaction to his name.
czcams.com/video/tvRRvxl0UZE/video.html
you missed This
ㅤ
My current reaction is who is this man and why does he attract the types who exhibit fatherless behaviour
you are beyond correct
The internet and metaverse are completely different. Hyper reality is the a new symptom. History never repeats, it rhymes 🤨
@@TheNeurotichi, What are you even talking about?
as someone who has been IN in so many fandoms before, I think it's very important to not attach yourself THAT MUCH with someone you don't even know personally, not everything is real in social media, well realistically. i just hope people would at least keep their selves sane enough to not worship influencers.
it's very fun to watch them for entertainment but pass than that, that's something we should *never even think of crossing
i’m super late but i was in the speedrun discord during the time that happened. they ended up had to lock all the channels every time dream spoke because his stans overran the discord and made it impossible to discuss anything real. he was incredibly hostile pretty much every time he spoke, but so were a couple of the mods replying to him so i can’t fully put that on him. they had to make a separate channel in the discord solely for discussing that because his constant presence in there along with his stans overrunning the entire server made it impossible for it to function as normal. it took months to recover-and i had left by this point, but when he finally admitted to cheating i can only imagine the server was a mess again for days
Why should being a stan of dream be treated any different than in other aspects of popular culture? It shouldn't. All celebrity worship should be discouraged across the board.
It’s generally looked down upon because worshipping creators creates a toxic unhealthy obsession. It’s also considered invasive to a creator’s life. Even if the creator doesn’t mind this, it paints a really bad image. This applies especially to Dream stans. While it’s not a problem to have stans in a creator’s community, going out of your way to deliberately feed and grow their obsession is a problem. Dream has basically managed to create a whole community based off of “stan culture”, and while that did help him grow quickly, it overshadowed people who genuinely enjoyed his content and replaced them with overzealous fans that will go out of their way to attack people and defend their content creators when they’re clearly in the wrong. An example of this is Dream’s speed running incident, where they defended and attacked anybody who thought Dream cheated, but when he admitted to it, they quickly switched over to saying “it’s just a block game”
yea, there’s been some pretty weird starbucks ads over the years if yknow what i mean
Probably because a huge chunk of the dsmp is racist/problematic
People do look down on stans for other popular cultures. Hell, before dream stans there were k-pop stans and Enimen stans. Hell there’s die hard fans of even cancelled/exposed celebrities.
@@roun6479 bruh. If you talking the content creators, they fucking play minecraft, they don't care much about politics. Ya'll really think people who's career is playing video games and editing videos for hours and hours a day just happen to hate black dudes or are offended by with whom the gays are sleeping with. Yeah nah. I frankly don't see how they time for that shit. If you talking about their fans, yeah they would have a number of fans that are problematic based on the size of fanbase and level of devotion.
Just throwing it out there, from rabbit hole dives and other people's testimony and shit, for example the alt right rabbit hole takes a lot of devotion into reading and interacting within content and the community with those beliefs to be sucked into it. Most of the dsmp have like crazy work ethic and shit. Its very likely that they very frankly do not have time for this shit.
TRO telling an anime girl too, and I quote 'Shut the Fuck up!' in a super deep voice was art
On god, and the fact it’s in the P5 style is everything lmao
ok dude
@@Monasaurus_Rex
Bro wtf have you been smoking? The UI was very cleary based on Visual novels, P5's is way different
It was really brilliant advertising and it convinced me to consider getting a VPN at some point.
@@funninoriginal6054 the music and sound effects are literally from P5
As someone who has been in the Dream smp fandom for over a year now and recantly started watching Viedeos like this and starting to see things in the fandom more criticly (or more rationally) I have to say that when you are in this bubble you don´t really get to see any other side but the Side of "your" Content Creater, that you want to defend. I never was to invested in all the controversy Stuff, because I just enjoyed to watch the Content. But I always was on the "Dream smp side" eventought I didn´t even knew any arguments from the other side. Most of the Fandom is pretty young (not everyone but there are many minors in the fandom) and is getting influenced pretty easy, they want to have an Idol that they can look up to and realate and if this Idol gets attacked they feel like they are getting attacked themselfs.I still enjoy to watching the content from some of the Content Creaters but as a once part of the fandom I have to say that the Community is selfdestructing themselfs and the Fandom ( mosty stans) was a part of my reason to distance myself from the fandom and stop watching most of them regulary.
And for Dream I think he got to big to fast and doesn'treally know how to act with this mass following him ( he could never learn "how to be famous"). He is very impulsive and treats his Fandom as if he has a hundred fans when infact he has millions of them and from what I can see he doesn't know how to act when he is in the wrong.
Don´t take this as an attack on the Fandom (or on Dream), that is just my personal oppinion of what happens in the Fanbase.
(P.S ignore my spelling and Grammar mistakes English isn´t my first language)
I think the problem is that his fans are terminally online and unfortunately their leader is also terminally online but with an artificially inflated ego. Dream can be proud of his achievements but he refuses to own up to his mistakes and his followers back him up on it. I think we all need to take a step back and realize that dream is literally just some guy.
When the world needed him the most he returned
Admittedly I’ll probably have a much more fun time watching this TRO video than his last one
@@TheDigitalApple why? The other one was really good
@@raphaelbrown6314 I don’t know. There was always a nagging feeling at the back of my head how TRO’s previous video wasn’t made for introspection but instead his (quite noticeable for the past few videos to an obnoxious level) political biases
@@raphaelbrown6314 Which is shame, TRO’s videos are pretty good. Certainly don’t want to believe that TRO is putting his biases into videos
@@TheDigitalApple what political biases?
what i just don't understand is how blind he is to the toxicity in his own fanbase. how can he not see the death threats to everyone that isn't him? the best quote from this was "one person's stan is another person's enemy"
Wtf are you on about LOL he's literally called that shit out dozens of times? Why are you pretending he's never done this?
@@ShadowRLX Prolly cuz it still happens, just not as loudly and proud
@@pichuwholackstime7108 i mean yeah it still happens but the Fandom is too big. Dream cannot control all of their actions. It’s unfortunate but he won’t be able to stop them :/
Dream stans are amazing cash cows so in his eyes they could do NOTHING wrong.
@@omgwhatwasthat_5219 A fanbase bigger than the entire population of australia
the funniest part of dsmp is that news around it died down hard around september bc so many of the dream stans went back to school and didnt have as much time to post abt him or get into fights
Funny!
honestly i feel like my first impression of dream just being a guy who doesn't know when to shut up is absolutely correct
Dream is unbelievably annoying. He refuses to admit he did wrong, and he refuses to see how his actions have consequences. Yes, his fans won’t dox him, but they have done so to others that are supposed “enemies” to Dream.
There were other bad stan groups before. Hetalia Stans, Undertale Stans, Markeplier Stans, but NONE of these groups and their actions go back to the creator(s) because every one of these creator(s) heavily disapprove their stans for their actions. All Dream does is defend and approve their actions.
Wait, when did Markiplier have stans?
@@thelolim___ster It was a briefly lived extreame group of fans between 2017-2018 who would defend mark from anything and everything, it seems to have mellowed out or they got bored with it.
@@Titan_TM Thank you for enlightening me, good sir.
Mrs beast, Logan Paul, one direction,fake toxic Corey fans 💀
@@thelolim___ster so you avoided the SepticPlier Era huh?
the main reason i love TRO is his format. I love seeing others editing skill throughout the video. He always gets good editors and each section has its own feel. Its all comes together as a one of a kind collaboration.
yeah, it's like a reanimated video
this is why i love it too!! i love seeing the different editors too and how they edit and he really does his research
It’s kinda sad to see that people will literally do anything for a creator. I do understand that you can’t control your fan’s actions or just knowing what they do/say. BUT, I do think he is responsible for the DEATH THREATS that people have gotten from his fanbase.
Also, if I was in Dreams situation with having my fans try to dox, death treats, send rude comments to people who has an opinion or something along the lines, I wouldn’t “reward” my fans with a compliment/heart emoji/“i love u guys” because then those people will think that being mean is okay, and they would continue.
As a person who was a dream stan I can tell you that i genuinely did not see ANYTHING wrong with dream back then. Everytime id see people hating on dream or his fandom my heart would SINK because the dsmp was such a big part of my life at that time (I was chronically online). And I’d search every crevice of Twitter just to see people make dream look like the good guy and not someone to blame. I remember seeing him apologize for eight different controversies during the span of one week and I’d comment “dw we still love you” (I didn’t know anything about the controversies themselves). I also remember just hating some parts of the fandom, but always thinking bad to the fact that dream said something along the lines of “the bad parts don’t represent the whole fandom”. Which obviously was true, but due to points you mentioned in the video, still wrong. And I also clearly remember how much I hated the “antis”, mostly because I agreed with many of their points but I was already too deeply invested in the dsmp😭😭😭😭 Like it’s insane to me now how much impact this MAN WHO I DIDNT KNOW had on me, a teenager
Glad you finally woke up
@@jordashi same🙏 i honestly feel kinda sad for everyone still in that fandom
i was a dream stan for a good period of time, back during the peak of the dream smp. i remember angrily defending dream when jawsh made the iconic anti-stan thread. but just a few months later, i made a comment making fun of stans that infantilized georgenotfound, and was sent death threats and harassed for several days. the entire fandom is self-destructive, and i hope it just fizzles out like previous fandoms have done.
Jawsh is an icon for that statement. I think Dreams reply to it showed who he is as a person, replying "You're an idiot" but not explaining how.
so harassing people it's fine unless it happens to you? aren't you just a sheep?
@@anaalina5964 I get the impression that they grew up.
Jawsh was entirely in the right.
@@anaalina5964 you took that completely the wrong way
As an older fan of the Dream team, I am able to realize that they are not required to say anything about important issues and they aren't perfect people. I don't expect anything except funny and entertaining Minecraft content. I don't look at Tubbo and think, "What's your opinion on BLM?" lmao
And this is is why this is slowly becoming a new internet rule
"Everything Woke turns to shit."
As a black person I get so annoyed when people force celebs to speak it out on subjects like racism I watch let's say Pewdiepie for example for entertainment or things that interests him and in turn I escape the world's problem for a little bit
Literally lmfao
@@theoutsiderjess4869 As a white guy I just keep my mouth shut because my opinion is racist and bias and I’m too privileged to speak on these issues. (Also cause I don’t care, I have my opinions and people have theirs, usually completely pointless to try and argue)
Same. Don't give a single SHIT about anything dream and his friends do outside of the videos, and only those videos I am interested in watching.
"Only the ones that hate me are furiously defending me and harassing others."
Make that make sense, Dream. Who goes to bat so hard for someone they don't like, respect, or idolize in some way?
It's obviously to make the community look bad. It's also trolling.
The k-pop stans fandom also have plenty of these guys, and almost every youtuber with at least 1M subs and an active fanbase.
That's more of a deflect than anything else. The stans are just people who have no identity, so they tie themselves to a youtuber they don't know, and defend him at all costs, instead of doing anything to better themselves. It gives them a sense of duty and fulfilment, despite no one asking for it. They elect themselves vigilantes, defending their city at all costs, however they deem fit. And because the average dream stan is below the age of 17, they can't really realize they get nothing out of it, and make themselves, and the person they like, look like clowns. I think dream knows that, but he deflected the issue by saying "My FANS, arent the ones doing it" as a way to save his fanbase's face.
Holy dang, I listened to "Stan" when it was released, I knew that was where the fandom term came from, but I literally never knew that it was short for "Stalker Fan". I know that's not really the takeaway here but it's been... 22 years. That song is old enough to drink and I'm learning this now.
@@bunny-dl2fithey never said they didn’t know the song was about a crazed stalker fan….They said they didnt realize the name meant anything. OP knew Stan was an obsessed fan in the song, but didn’t know his name actually meant stalker fan.
Navigating parasocial relationships should be something that gets taught to children, the internet increasingly makes it easier to fall into unhealthy levels (as seen through general stan culture), since minor CZcams celebrities are just as beloved and far more accessible than previous parasocial relationships with celebrities
How do you even explain that to children though, I wonder?
@@danceswithmetroids162 Tbh I don't think I would begin to know, I feel that there's some way to do so tho. Maybe not directly, but as a greater part of "Internet Safety" and maybe more as trying to teach healthy expectations to children. Idk how effective it could be, but something might be better than nothing anyway. I don't think parents are typically equipped for this with how things are increasingly online and they weren't necessarily online so much themselves growing up
@@danceswithmetroids162 to say the least I think a lot of people watching this video cannot drink. So there is a chance.
Also, parasocial relationships have only been a thing for like a decade, can definitely consider adding it to school curriculum, adapting to the internet age and shit.
Personally I think the better solution would be parents not letting their kids be this involved on the internet in the first place.
@@kugelblitzingularity304 Well I think it’s just an evolution of previous celebrity fandom, really.
It's been so interesting to see this whole mctwt stan thing get so out of hand. I remember this same cycle of bullshit happening back during the SMPLive days lmao. Same shit, same ass, I say. Always the majority of stans disavowing and tight-knit groups of incredibly online bullies and sociopaths hate raiding them. Dreams fanbase is just on a completely different scale compared to even the biggest hitters in SMPLive, so the problem is obviously going to be exacerbated.
cooper's water bottle 💀
@@shiori2896 if I recall correctly it turned out that was actually a copypasta
Ah yes, hates dream stans=sociopaths of course
@@shiori2896 the Danganronpa x SMPLive fanfic
@@samt3412 WHAT
I love that his main argument for stans was that stans weren’t sending him death threats or trying to find his address. Like of course, they just do that to everyone else who disagrees with you😅
Stans are legit nuts. Like I know K-pop idols get stalked, bullied and harassed, but I’ve never met a more boat rocking Stan community like the dream community. I understand not all fans r gunna be like that but it’s very disturbing how big the BAD fandom was compared to the sane and normal side of the fandom. It was so crazy
That's what happens when a famous person has no redeeming qualities. You get a fanbase with 0 good people in it.
Like fans of PewDiePie, Turkey Tom, Keemstar, Shadman, & Seth MacFarlane.
This goes to show that Fandoms always have positives and negatives. Sometimes, those negatives shines brighter than the former.
Edit: I may have started a argument and brought a racist over here LMAO
or you just don't bother looking at positives
@@cryjasper7667 no, the negatives show more and we all know it
@@cryjasper7667 Spot the loser Dream Stan
@@micah0000 fr like people were literally bullying some random guy because of their dislike for dream. The hate cult around dream is just as toxic as his fandom
@@micah0000 "fatphobia" LMAO
the worst is being a fan of someone before they met Dream ( Jschlatt, Wilbur, Quackity ect) and then being grouped in with stans, its like you watch anyone like that and then boom you are a Dream stan, even if you dont like Dream. shits fucking wild because if you play minecraft or make minecraft content people will be like, oh you are trying to be dream. Like no please leave me out of this.
edit: some people in this thread are super bitter, if you dont like content creators and where they have gone, you dont need to call their content trash ( main example is quackity). they are doing what they like i was simply trying to state frustration with being like a quackity or slimecicle fan and being grouped in with dream stans. this is not a " i hate cc' thread. keep it mature. im a fan of many poeple who are in the smp as i liked their content before the smp and i still watch them, so lets not start any comment wars, be kind. Like TRO said, sometimes anti's are just as harmful as stans.
Agreed, I used to watch wilburs content back in the soothouse days and had encountered quackity's channel in the same time frame, but because of the rabid fanculture I'm hesitant to involve myself in their current content... It honestly sucks because I do like the content but if I watch a couple vids I'm suddenly flooded with Stan content and honestly it's making me watch less and less of the videos.
I don't even watch Quackity anymore
Even worse is seeing how dream warped all of these creators into basically servicing a much younger audience now and their content feeling stale now and you can't do anything about it as you watch in horror how quackity becomes a kids channel
@@BasileosHerodou bro ngl Quackity's old stuff was already mid. It's clear that he's doing stuff he actually enjoys now instead of making overly edited videos of annoying people on browser MMOs
No seriously. As a former Soothouse fan, seeing Wilbur's fandom shift is so bizarre.
You know 90% of his fan base is children, especially when they comment something like
"this is how many ppl wanna rematch ⬇️"
It's sad how committed and loyal children can get
Honestly, turning your sponsor into an anime girl is one of best advertisments I've ever seen
he reminds me so much of my younger self except with a large platform. I hated taking my ADHD meds and I often blew up and went on rants about things I knew nothing about. I was endlessly impulsive and I ruined all of the friend groups I was in because I needed the stimulation from drama. I can't imagine how often I would be cancelled (for good reason, probably) if I had a large audience back then instead of just my 5th grade class.
edit: everyone is fighting in the replies so don't look there if you don't want to watch a fight going down
Also someone with ADHD and a lack of impulse control here and I, as well, see the similarities to Dream and how he reacts.
It does kind of make you feel for him but at the same times I also know that I need to work on that about myself and he has to, too.
Even at 27 years of age now I still struggle a lot, but it's not an excuse to blow up on people, you gotta actively work on that.
ADHD medication is a scourge on the earth, evil stuff.
@@woods1768 Heck no.
@@woods1768 Definitely. If its hindering your life getting help will improve it a lot. Don't listen to that other person.
I was thinking that too. A lot of it seems in par with certain ADHD symptoms if left untreated.
The psychology around Stan culture is honestly really intriguing and I think there should be psychological studies on how it behaves. Charlie (critikal) made a really compelling video talking about how TommyInnit was harassed to the point where he took a break off of Twitter for making a lighthearted joke and then the same stans who harassed him off of it started attacking him again for leaving. It just blows my mind that people like this exist, and can’t see the hypocrisies of their own actions. The message stans commonly spread about positivity and stopping hate - and then subsequently telling people to commit suicide is just mind blowing to me. Your video does a really good job discussing the possible reasonings for this behavior. Really well made!
Mob mentality isn’t something new
Seriously there are so many examples of stans being hypocritical. It's like they have an on-off switch for their morals and ethics
I watched that video I didn't even know that happened until Charlie made that video Stan culture is the weirdest most interesting thing
@@internettraveler8666 Yeah, but this kind of mob mentality is something else. It's mob mentality that is so warped that they attack the people they support.
That’s why people hate Stan’s and many creators don’t want them or why I understand how in this video the CZcamsrs said to not follow them if they Stan.
I think Jawsh needs more recognition. With the amount of viewers he has compared to dream, him taking a stance on this unhealthy behavior could’ve cost his career (and maybe even his IP), and yet he still talked about it because he cared.
Dream's ultimate defense of his stans is Incredibly narcissistic. It's always "Well it didn't really hurt ME so..."
Dream redefining "stans" to paint them in a positive light as if it somehow refutes the criticism makes no sense at all. It's like if I said that lemons are yellow, then someone claimed that I was wrong because they define "lemon" as what we normally call an apple. Dream has even made it clear that he believes that it doesn't matter what a listener believes a word means, what matters is the intention of the person saying it, so redefining "stans" to refer to a completely different group than what it was used to refer to by anyone else doesn't even make sense by his own logic.
Him redefining 'stans' makes me relate it to celebrities singing 'imagine'. You get some wishful thinking, which is cool and all, but executed in the wrong context.
the word stan has been redefined like that for years, it's not something new and he didn't do it himself
stans from all kinds of fandoms have been calling themselves stans since at least 2016 and they havent been calling themselves stalker fans
most stans just see the word as very big fans and invested in the fandom
@@akaphaedra Perpetuating someone else’s insane take for his own benefit isn’t inherently better than had he come up with it on his own.
@@None-lx8kj except it's not just perpetuating someone else take
Tens of thousands of not millions have been using the term like that for years, it's not just a few people
@@akaphaedra If everyone already knows it, why would he need to explain it to everyone?
The main thing i actually disagree with dream for, is when Jawsh simply stated his dislike for stans based on his own experiences, Dream simply replied with 'you are an idiot' which clearly spread hate towards jawsh. and it worked! because now thousands of peope dislike jawsh and he 'encouraged' their hateful behavior towards others when it benefits him.
Agreed! That was the turning point for me as well.
I just can't imagine how hard Dream fumbled the ball like that; it just feels genuinely spiteful
What's funny is that I'm pretty sure Deltarune stans are the ones that hate him now. The whole Dream thing is so old in Internet time that few people even remember it
Jawsh was getting hate from the stans long before Dream got involved. Same thing happened with ThirtyVirus, even though Dream never got involved in that situation, a lot of other CZcamsrs did and ThirtyVirus got a lot of shit just for voicing his right opinion
Dream can’t control his community. We have seen in the past that him saying ‘don’t send hate’ doesn’t do anything
@@mushroom_pluto6598 Fine, let's assume he has absolutely no control over his community. The least he could do is not rally them up like a total dumbass to attack another creator. In that situation, he very clearly endorsed the existence and behavior of stans, as he called the very criticism of that behavior "stupid".
Brown-haired white boy wears a green hoodie, hides his face behind a simple smile mask, and makes it big by playing video games. Honestly, the similars between the late Cryaotic and Dream are eerie….
cryaotic died?
Imagine if Dream told his viewerbase to go outside and do good things for society - like community service.
Or at least touch grass(I'm talking about the stans)
I was a Dream fan when he started to get popular, but him saying idiotic things when angry ended up pushing me away from his content. Dream needs a better understanding that his words affect others, no matter his intent. TRO mentioned that Dream needs to apologize to people he wronged, which includes people that don’t like Dream.
Do your research lol. He HAS gotten a better understanding, he hasn't been in drama for several months, and he's apologized to the mods 2 or 3 times already.
@@ShadowRLX I only learned about the mod apologies after I watched all of the video. I probably should’ve edited my old comment to reflect this. I’m not really into Dream’s content anymore. Also, if it is true he has changed, he wasn’t that changed person when I was a fan.
@@mintythedemon1785 I mean that's fair, some people just get bored of the same content over and over while others are just addicted to it. However no one can majorly change in a short amount of time, but now that some time has passed Dream has definitely gotten better, and I'm sure he'll continue to get better and deal with situations better than he did in the speedrunning drama, mark my words.
he has not gotten better and his stans need mental help
@@warsect I will never understand why you people do absolutely no research on a subject and then still go on to make statements on it.
I think I'm either just too old to understand the whole phenomenon, or don't have the right disposition.
To me, Dream is just... some guy. He could be funny, or the greatest Minecraft player in the world, but even as a kid I don't think I would have latched onto him as a figure worth following that strongly. I've never been one to idolize athletes or my favorite gamers, or heck even content creators, to the point where I stan them. I just see them as people, and appreciate what I can from them.
I just don't feel the calling to rally behind someone who, for all intents and purposes, is just a normal bloke.
SAAAMEEE
im what some would consider a 'dream stan' and i totally agree w this
I've just finished the video, and still feel the same as op. I don't get the appeal, he does come off as just some guy people have put on a pedestal, for some reason, for good and for bad. Without that aspect of it, nobody would be talking about Him. He'd just be another face in the crowd of minecraft CZcamsrs.
I think I have an analgous story that might sum up what my understanding is of the whole thing. Bear with it.
Dream comes across as like...some Lovecraftian cultist who finally succeeds in getting Cthulu senpai to notice them. Bob is super hyped about this, at least initially. There's bound to be plenty of perks for being the guy to get personal attention from a Great Old One.
Some of the cultists are super hyped about his achievement too, and they think this guy is awesome, and they sing his praises when they meet up at Jeff Bezos's super secret volcano lair underneath skull crusher mountain.
The rest of the cultists are just sick and tired of hearing about how awesome Bob from Walmart is for summoning Cthulu, and wish the other cultists would just shut up about it already, especially during their ritual sacrafices. It's already gotten tiresome, and it's only getting worse.
And Bob? Bob really had no idea of the scope of the baggage train Cthulu senpai brought to this relationship, but now He's stuck with no way out. Also, now he's kind of responsible for whatever madness and horror the High Priest of the Great Old Ones unleashes on the unsuspecting world, because, y'know, it's Cthulu, that's just what He does.
But its somehow worse, because for whatever reason, Cthulu senpai likes Bob, and will do almost anything for Him. Even if Bob is an otherwise perfectly ordinary and otherwise ethical guy (maybe he joined the Cthulu cult for their dental plan, or something, idk), anything and everything He says or does is going to result in problems he never anticipated, often beyond his control.
The other cultists hang on his every word, looking for reasons to justify their own groupthink, either for or against him.
And meanwhile if someone cuts Bob off in traffic, or the cashier at the dollar store accidentally shorts him a few cents, Cthulu senpai is liable to wreck their entire life and swallow their souls.
Of course Bob isn't going to really go that hard on chiding Cthulu senpai for his atrocious behavior, not when he's the one who woke him up. He wanted this, to some degree. Of course he's going to apologize to Cthulu when he upsets him. Senpai is here to stay, as long as the stars are right. And if he goes, Bob goes back to being Bob from Walmart all over again, which would probably suck just as badly as the position he's in now. Worse, actually. It is Walmart we're talking about after all.
Maybe in time the stars wont be right, and senpai will have to go back to sleep underneath the ocean, but for now Bob from Walmart is stuck with him, whether he likes it or not. So he may as well make the most of it while he can.
Best bet is to keep your necronomicon close and handy, maybe get an elder sign tattoo, or just draw in on witha sharpie marker, and hunker down to wait it out in a bunker.
Or, you could just go mad, and laugh at all this drama and the three ring circus that formed around some ordinary guy. That's whats worked for me.
Also, it's always the Cthulu cultists, isn't it? That's why I only stan for Hastur.
@@harbinger_jay To be honest i've seen far more toxic Dream Haters then i have Dream "stans" and if you remotely defend dream or talk about him in a positive light in any shape or form your automatically called a Stan which is very annoying tbh i get the toxic "stan" part that worship or are super toxic towards other ppl but thats fairly common in any community Star wars Bts etc
I was a fan in the earlier days and I liked the upbeat vibes he and his friends had. They were fun to watch for me. Although as time went on my opinion of him soured by quite a large margin.
i love how this video holds him accountable. he's not an amazing creator and he's done some unsavoury things
I find it funny how dream stans look at boffy thinking that they're a copy of dream when in reality, the OG smiley face + green hoody guy on youtube was cryaotic/chaoticmonkey. Dream was the original knock off. He even did the same "dreamwastaken" thing while cry's handle on twitter was "CryWasTaken". Granted, cry got cancelled years ago for being a groomer iirc but he was still the OG smiley face/no face youtuber guy with a squad and if he didn't fuck it up, he still would've been.
Agreed 👍
The best way I can describe Dream is that he’s a cautionary tale of how setting boundaries for your fandom will do.
He puts more effort in a VPN ad than most CZcamsrs do in a 20 minute video
He puts more effort in a sponsorship than dread did his entire career
When I seen that ad, my mind immediately goes *"Did TRO collab with Merryweather for just an ad?"* considering the artist and the voice actress behind the Surfshark-chan are the regular collaborators of Merryweather
@@ardantop132na6 Yes.
Yes TRO did.
Back in August 2020, I happened to upload a comparison video with me and Dream in a parkour course from the MC Championship tournament. Because I happened to be a few seconds faster than him, that video has over 250 dislikes, and I received 3 death threats in the comments, as well as numerous accusations of faking the video.
I never understood why people were getting so upset about the speed run thing. But his attitude and response to it makes that make a lot more sense now
Dream doesn't look like a bad or terrible person but he in fact needs to learn from his mistakes which i hope he does. And i kinda wish he brings back his unsolved series. His content now is just.....unenjoyable after getting repetitive.
Finally someone who has the balls to say that.
As with everyone, we fuck up and carry on, no one is perfect and we can be shitty all the time but we are still human with redeemable qualities
@@FriskyFoxx sadly, everyone expects perfection from youtubers not even realizing they're just normal ass humans who upload videos.
how is it even getting so much views i dont get it? like 20-30mil every video?? his unsolved series never got this amount
@@nils4415 his channel was a lot smaller back when he was making unsolved series i think.
Why is it so fucking difficult for Dream to just admit he was wrong? Without attempting to excuse his actions in any way, or blaming anybody else? Even in the big apology he STILL insinuates that the mod team and critics are somehow responsible for him all but calling a crusade against the mod team and for him withholding the fact he, in fact, did cheat. Or that spur of the moment emotions were to blame. I understand he was ashamed, scared, anxious, whatever, but that does not excuse his behavior. It upsets me that he can't just own up to what he's done.
The answer is quite simple: Ego
He is just a human.
It doesn't help him, but constantly arguing about him being dipshit is even more stupid. Let's just hope dream learns in future
That's my main problem with dream. Sure, it's a big ego blow and tough pill to swallow when you realize you've done something wrong, but it's straight up manipulative to always turn it into us against them, as if anyone who doesn't agree with you is your enemy. He says he does things but never follows through, THAT'S why his fanbase is out of control
@@kurodo9926 he is human, and that's exactly why he needs to face repercussions for his huge ego.
@@skyre5528 I didn't object that.
That's the point I agree with the most, but constant hate and namecalling will never give him idea that he is not the best person
Always love the different editors giving different visual styles and ways of portraying the information that's being given. I usually listen to videos in the background while driving, doing chores, working, etcetera, but the variation helps for watching; especially when it's hard to sit and watch for hours at a time. Much respect
It’s extremely sad to see someone his age handle just controversy so poorly in comparison to say TommyInnit, Ranboo and Tubbo, AKA people who blew up in their teens. Somehow, three people, who are barely out of their teens, are much better at adapting to valid criticism, addressing controversy the right way and setting their own boundaries. Dream has had more controversies than Tom, Ran and Toby combined, and he too has handled said controversies in a way worse manner than the aforementioned three combined as well.
His biggest weakness is his impulsivity. He says he reacts to criticism almost immediately, acting off of his emotions. Impulsivity is very difficult to apprehend when you have ADHD, but I would say you could learn to dampen it over time. (I’m not saying that process will take no time at all, please do correct me if what I’ve said is objectively wrong).
He has yet to realise that he needs to cut the bond he’s pretending to have with his fans, because they don’t know him, and he doesn’t know them. My theory is that he is letting them have this parasocial relationship with him because nobody else seems to do this, although there is a very good reason why literally no one does this.
I do not care if he’s comfortable with it, it is actively putting others in danger and is affecting them greatly. I’m glad I can finally come to the realisation, that he does carry the responsibility of his fanbase’s actions. (To a certain extent, but he could definitely do something). He seriously needs to wake up from the exotic fever dream he’s having.
my issue with dream is he simply grew too big too fast and let all that go to his head in a way. unlike most youtubers who followed the same road, they took years to grow their fan base, to find what they want to do and how to do it. along the way they encountered the usual bumps in the road, people who hate their content, the usual fake accounts/accusers, the old fans leaving from both growing up and the change in content, everyone has dealt with this. but the problem is dream grew too fast, and in turn has to deal with ALL of this at the top of the mountain, not on the journey up. and that's where I know things are bound to turn sour, because he has no experience with any of this, the slightest problem makes him jump, and goes about dealing with the problem in a negative way. on top of that, he hasnt gone through the inevitable moment where you lose some fans to stay with those you want to make content for, and i feel like thats apart of the reason he only uploads the same content now, because he never had that moment that separates fans and stans, he doesnt want to lose any of them because hes afraid of losing what he has now, which, is scarry when it becomes your livelihood. but still, this doesn't alleviate him of his actions, he just needs to learn to actually deal with it, but because of the community he built, and how scared he is of breaking it, i have a high amount of doubt he will learn unless something major happens.
Faxx
very good point! the massive rise to fame in such a short amount of time mixed with his very competitive, impulsive behavior was not a good mix. he isn't evil, and i dont hate him, but like you said im sure it did get to his head even if he didnt realize it.
No offense, not trying to be an ass by typing this, but this take is just horrid. He literally has not been in drama for several months. He has gotten SO MUCH better. I'm not a stan, but saying things like "the slightest problem makes him jump, and goes about dealing with the problem in a negative way" and "he will learn unless something major happens" are totally weak and unresearched claims. Also I'm sure he cares about not wanting to lose what he's built, anyone would. But if he cared THAT MUCH he wouldn't drop his upload rate to 1 upload per 1 or 2 months (he used to upload weekly fyi.) I'm sure he's just trying to live his life while also maintaining his platform, if it were more extreme in either direction he would either be way less active or upload/stream way more.
he uploads the same thing because it's successful lmao, that's almost certainly the end of the story. i don't think there's some advanced psychoanalytical motivation or whatever, the video archetype is wildly successful so he keeps uploading it.
The real interesting thing is that he almost never streams or uploads any DSMP content despite it being also wildly successful. And whitelists a whole lot of small creators into the server, it seems like that's more of a passion project than the manhunt cash-ins
@@transformera4834 Well that whole "outside of his content" was kind of my point. He has a life, he probably just wants to live a little at times instead of focusing all on his platform, and I'm sure he's also doing some stuff here and there like lore building as you said; and I'm 100% sure he's also prepping for George to move in with them and to start doing IRL content (he DID say he was gonna do that this year.) Like his upload rate, his stream rate and shorts are pretty inconsistent and infrequent as well so I'm sure he doesn't put much time towards those. Dream studied the shit out of the algorithm and creator growth, he was very smart in how he approached CZcams, and has reached a point where he can not upload nearly as much as most other active creators and still do much better and maintain his platform.
Btw I haven't really watched the video, I've listened to some parts of it but not a thorough, full-on watch, because it's 2 hours, and I've already been pretty invested into things Dream-related for a while now and have seen multiple other videos already so everything TRO says I'm already aware of. So, I kinda just came to the comments to give my 2 cents, I already knew almost everyone was gonna be against Dream here.
Honestly one of the best sponsership intros i have seen in a while. I love how much effort you put into your videos even in sponsored ad segments
"wow! Thats amazing!"
"Shut the Fuck Up"
One of the few I don't skip haha
I think the best was the Nikocado Abocado one
The amount of effort TRO puts into these videos is insane. It’s aspirational
Du hast zwar Recht aber ich hol trotzdem die Kettensäge. XD
30:36 as a friend and viewer of colin at the time that his discourse with dream happened, i can 100% confirm that he did get a lot of nastiness from dream’s community, and it did affect him a fair amount mentally. i definitely think that dream could have resolved it in dms (i did back than too), as to not send his stans on a witch-hunt against colin.
50:17 As a canadian i can confirm that people have in fact not been fined for misgendering other people, as that is completely bizarre and unethical to do. Why be fined for a plain misunderstanding that can be corrected with a few words? that seems very unlikely to anyone who thinks about it for half a second.
i have been in internet fandoms since 2008, and while i know im not the oldest i land just at the right place and at the right time to observe the lead up to the "stan" culture that exists today.
i see the dream fan beheaviour as a crossbreed between homestuck and bts, it being the "babies first fandom" and very vocal. Homestuck cosplayers were banned out of conventions because they didnt know how to conduct themselves in those places (not knowing how to cosplay, respect conventions and other peoples space), and i see the same kind of behaviour in the dream fandom.
I say its a cross between the homestuck fandom and bts because it takes that "first time" fandom feel plus the activeness of the bts in social media, and i think the perception is similar to the perception people had of homestuck.
I know right??? Like I enjoy Dream as a casual viewer and Im more invested in the lore for the Dream SMP but its just seems like a lot of fans are very very young and dont know of the fandom etique that was pretty relevant and important in like tumblr "golden" era cause they never got to expience it or hear it.
How sad that it seems like this people first people on a fandom live to the stereotype of "crazy stan" :(
omg yes i’ve always thought that the dsmp fandom has similar vibes and levels of toxicity to the homestuck fandom
With that in mind, I still would rather stay the hell away form fandom like that. Understandable that these new stans would make mistake and cross the line here and there, but man! I would rather save myself a headache and avoid them all together. You mentioned about conventions banning Homestuck all together and guess what I would take the similar approach too.
you are so right. i got into mcyt right after being really into kpop twt for a year. literally the first thing i noted was how similar the two felt with all the fancams, update accounts and general internet culture.
@@bnnuy3624 all stans are crazy.
The Right Opinion is the ONLY channel that I don’t want rushed videos every week. I mean I would love that but, these videos are extremely well done and so in depth that, when you come out at the end you completely understand the entire situation. Thank you for taking your time on these we know it’s not easy.
Keep up the great work my boi
I like his videos but his political bias was so obvious in this video its quite unsightly and he should definitely leave his bias out of his "unbiased" videos
@@ThatOneGuyWhatsHisName what political bias did you see? also idk if he's claimed his video is unbiased either.
@@ThatOneGuyWhatsHisName I didn’t get any political bias from this video.
He mentions Dream being compared to Trump a few times. CLEARLY political bias.
@@pariahmutt3589 the only time i remember that is when they talked about a tweet sounding similar to trumps writing style? which isnt really a political take its a comment about the way someone speaks
I'm just devastated to learn TRO here doesn't stan j aubrey. I thought they were mutual stans, what crushing news
i have never been a dream stan but it kinda scares me how *easily* i could’ve fallen down that hole. thanks to my lonely childhood, i’m extremely prone to parasocial relationships. thank fuck it was never an attachment to this man
as someone who doesn't consider themselves as a stan, but likes MCYT/ MC Streamer content, Dream IS the reason why a lot of people are where they are today. But creators like him have a HUGE flaw which is they dont know how to denounce their community's behavior. if your community is harassing people, doxxing people, ect... regardless of how big or small the part of your community is, always PUBLICLY denounce bad community behavior.
He does though. There’s whole compilations of him denouncing that behavior. He does it regularly. Surprise, surprise, none of the toxic stans listen.
@@simplymarvelousliving I agree with your statement, but as TRO said, a lot of those toxic stans stemmed from his lack of direct action. And what I mean by that is him not addressing the issues as they show up, rather, he reminds his stans of his values as general statements. Dream usually says 'x is bad and I don't agree with it', which while it does address the overall issues with his community, does not do much to stop it.
Because he doesn't actually address the drama or call out his toxic stans, it never goes anywhere. And trust me, I'm not saying he has full control of his community, I'm just saying he has SOME control over his community, and he should learn how to properly use it. I've watched him for almost two years now, I just wish he would address that stuff more directly.
Honestly, the fans denounce creators behaviour more than the creators ever denounce their fans.
@@simplymarvelousliving I mean, he does champion "stans" as a term meaning great fans, so he does a good job of blurring the line.
@@jadefang2222 I always see people saying that Dream should do more to stop these stans, but the problem is they never listen to anyone, they just do things on their own accord. Every time Dream tells them to stop, it just pours gasoline on the situation and makes them behave even worse.
In the past few months Dream has stopped giving a shit about this stuff, and it's just led to less of it happening
I personally consider the speedrun stuff to be fairly serious, but that’s because I was into speed running and had heard about how much of a taboo cheating is in that community years before Dream came onto my radar. And I was introduced to Dream as him being a speed runner that dabbled in other Minecraft things, not the other way around, so that also factors into it.
Edit: Even if he didn’t realize he was cheating at first, why in the world would be not take a look and make sure there weren’t mods or anything installed before hiring someone to do that math and make sure? Especially if he’s straight up fighting people online over this, and would know he’d installed a pack like that in the past. His rude behavior combined with that takes any sympathy/respect I would’ve had for him if he just hadn’t known.
Watch Karl Jobst's newest video on it. I changed my perspective on it imo and shows that he may actually have not known he was cheating
Edit: this one
czcams.com/video/G3Yzk-3SZfs/video.html
I would consider the cheating scandal something serious, if it wasn't Minecraft. This game is not meant for speedrunnig, or rather for competitive speedrunnig. Like, at all, there is too much rng involved from every corner.
@@petre1758 There are many games not meant to be speedrunned but are speedrunned competitively anyway.
You'd be surprised as to how many speedruns for many games rely on getting good rng.
@@nothere1578 i know a lot of speedruns rely on rgn, almost all of them do to some degree. But in MC specifically literally every centimeter of the game is rng based.
I hold a lot of respect for any speedrunner of any game. But I do think it's kind of silly to be so obsessed about your placement on the MC sp leader board specifically. This goes for both Dream and the Mods.
@@imanidiotforreplyingbut7465 Yeah that's the worst part, he probably completely forgot he had his mods on, which makes his reaction to deleting his mod files and hiding the truth for so long even worse.
this is so unrelated but i had a really bad stomach ache to the point where i couldn’t breathe (it’s where 6 months after covid u get horrible cramps in ur stomach) and i couldn’t walk at all so i turned on ur video and i fell asleep cuz ur voice is so relaxing and now it’s just a small stomachache and i had very good dreams
It’s been 6 months. The kids miss you.
I think the problem with the Dream tweet about 'drug songs' is that he tends to take this extremely smug attitude whenever he's in the line of fire, then wriggle and grovel when he realizes he said something stupid. I find the cycle of "start shit, apologize, then start shit again" a lot of online figures do really tiresome
Honestly his original drugs tweet is fine. Funny enough its his apology that is somehow racist when it someone specified black people, like bruh. I guess he is addressing what he is accused of, but bruh, where did black people come in.
I'm entirely unfamiliar with this so sorry if I'm saying something dumb but:
Doesn't he have ADHD? And bare with me here but I think the cycle of him being an idiot then being defensive then backtracking is understandable in that case. Impulsivity is a symptom of ADHD, so is poor self-control. I think he says dumb things and because he has an ego he won't just go "sorry, I was being brash", he will get defensive.
Idk, I kind of see my friend in him with that behavior. They both tend to do something extremally dumb and potentially hurtful and then, because they have troubles with admitting they're wrong, they will just go around the topic vaguely trying to apologize without actually saying anything lol.
@@panonymousbloom5405 Oh gosh, that makes me emotional, the fact that his actions remind you of your friend's actions.
This is kinda sad. Ngl, I do feel pretty angry towards Dream whenever he gets all wacky and defensive, but after some though, I grow sorry for him.
@@bopitgenius8996 that's very sweet of you. You must have a good heart.
Imo he is just a very avarage dude with some impulsivity issues. My friend with ADHD does that - he says something dumb, or even does something that he will regret. For example, he once threw a pillow at my other friend in pretend anger. The problem was, the pillow had a pretty big zipper and it hurt. He did the same thing - firstly he was like "how could I know?!" etc. Then he went silent and hugged her. And then he sheepishly apologized. I overall think people tend to be even less forgiving of mental issues when they dislike a person for reasons but that's another conversation for another day.
But the fact that I *think* I understand where he's coming from on some level may also mean I tend to give him a pass, I don't know. I also tend to be frustrated with the way he handles things (because one, called it about the stans. Two, please hire a PR manager already, this is not good for anyone!) but then I see both the stans and anties and I also can't help but get a bit defensive and sad over him.
Again, thank you for that comment. It just warmed my heart. :)
@@panonymousbloom5405 awww, no worries 👍🏻
I really respect your empathy, that's something I really admire actually !
TRO is the only youtuber who could make a video about a person I have 0 clue about or interest in and I will still click and watch the whole thing. His research and nuance is pretty much always enlightening.
Honestly same I have no interest in dream either
smoothie
Thank you once again TRO, for breaking down a subject I had absolutely no knowledge on and being extremely comprehensive and neutral about the whole issue. You are one of the most evidence based commentators I have ever seen and I think I've watched just about every video on your channel at this point. Keep doing what you're doing please, even as somebody who has no real interest in social drama like this, in and of itself, it's extremely interesting to hear your take on things
the music from the videos of Summoning Salt just instantly warmed my heart, when I heard it and you started talking about speedrunning right after it.
if the idea originally came from one of your editors or someone else instead of you, give them my regards and a small bonus, but anyway it was just a such a genuinely nice and subtle way to reference a loved speedrunning youtuber.
Man goosebumps when it happened hahah. So great to hear that it caught me off-guard
Dream made an interesting point: He was 16 in 2016, when Trump was elected. He is a very young guy at the time of a lot of the popularity came his way. He was a man who acquired so much of a following, so much power, so much prestige, with not enough time to figure out how to deal with it. Dream is someone who acquired fame and power before he was ready to wield it.
Many of the famous 'bad' monarchs through history, are usually people who are forced into power and fame before they are old enough to be ready.
Dream is a CZcamsr who clings to his audience, because he feels emotionally attached to them. It doesn't matter if he's hurt people outside. Very likely, he sees his Stans as a part of him. That if he doesn't protect them at all times, he's fanbase immediately dies and his career ends. And lets face it, many Stans and people like that are Twitter Mobsters, in that they will never stop trying to destroy the enemy.
And that's his attitude. Us or Them. Tribalism. It lacks nuance. It's immature. And he fosters that immaturity. Yes, it is correct to say that sometimes it's us vs them, but not to everything. Not everything is WWIII. Not everything is a red line that can't be crossed. Dream has MADE everything, even minor criticism, a red line.
A man gifted too much power and fame, before he was mentally and emotionally ready for it.
Bro why u acting like dream boutta start ww3 or sum he is only a youtuber that sucks lmao
What does Trump have anything to do with this? Just asking.
@@luigi4798 He started streaming around that time. I was using it as a time period.
@@peterbc6129 Ohhh... I get it, you just don't expect to here Trumps name talking about something completely irrelevant. Haha. Also speaking of Trump, I would just like to say how annoying and stupid it seemed how Dream had to apologize for supporting Trump back then, like what the heck does his ideology have anything to do with anything he does online? Just another example of him pandering to his stans. I don't really care for dream at all I just found this funny.
Do you think money played any influence on Dream's behavior ?
at 12 years old I was an Eminem stan & after my friend brought to my attention how obsessive I seemed I immediately stopped. I’m thankful I experienced being a stan at such a young age because it taught me earlier to not idolise public figures so much & focus on building yourself up.
bruh i almost ended up being a shapiro fan. My dad showed complete disinterest in the mentioned stances and it kinda snapped me out of it. Then again, I ended up raised distrusting of most people and questioning all my relationships, so realizing that I trusted an online figure out of nowhere probably helped.
For me it took my brother bullying the fuck outta me to realize being an Justin Beiber(keep in mind I was 7) stan was cringe
@@Starrrycandy didn't they have a name?
@@TheCornishGuy bieber fever?
Damn. Maybe your friend should give a speech to all those crazy football stans going on riots when their teams loses.
I like Dream as a content creator but it's undeniable how he is an immature Twitter user, he isn't a bad person, but he got a huge fanbase when he wasn't prepared and now everyone needs to deal with it
Why did you say "Immature twitter user" as if there was a difference?
@@takumirodriguez1358 Most of it wouldn't have happened if he didn't use twitter as we all know that place is a hellspawn for all sorts of crazy stuff and with his fanbase and immaturity that treats millions of fans as just a few hundred it has quite the drastic effect
35:00 The top tweet on the left was a very unpleasant discovery. I had no idea that Dream insulted CaptainSparklez because he wanted the Chillager to win over the Glowsquid. It may not seem very serious, but I've often seen Dream be very nice and respectful towards Jordan, and this tweet just shook up that image. As far as I know, he started being nice later. Was he actually doing that to make people forget about that tweet? It seems like a sudden twist.
I've come across Dream stans coming to CaptainSparklez videos that weren't even related to the mob vote, spamming "You're that guy who hates glow squids, the best mob, you're so salty, get over it already!" when in the case of some of these comments, many months have passed since the vote, and I'm pretty sure he has "gotten over it". It seems like they were the ones that haven't, since they were still bringing that up. I thought that they were just being ridiculous and felt way too personal about the vote, but now I think that they did this because of Dream's tweet.
I'm just disappointed, because I've never seen CaptainSparklez publicly say anything rude towards Dream, he's a very careful and controversy-free creator, and yet, Dream decided that it would be a good idea to call him out and bring his horde of fans into it. All because of a vote that he claimed he didn't care about? And even if it was meant as a "joke", he should realize that his jokes have lead to people receiving death threats before. Maybe next time, he should keep to joking about himself, and not others. Especially if he's aware that the other person wishes to stay out of controversy, and his stans start them all the time over the simplest of things.
I am aware that his has happened over a year ago, and that he may have changed, but I've found out about this now, and I wanted to share my disapproval. Hopefully he regrets his words.
.
I've been aware of him calling Jawsh an idiot in response to a fine argument for over a year now, so I no longer feel any strong emotions towards that. Still, I think that his reply is so filled with immaturity it's incredibly striking and offputing. There are so many better things he could have said, but he jumped to derogatory terms immediately. I expect more thought and tact from a public person.
Edit: I looked at the replies to Dream's immature tweet, and so many people were supporting him and congratulating him on his "simple, on point reply", plus, making memes that villify Jawsh. What the hell? That is such an obviously bad and primitive reply, and they still failed to see that? I've heard people say that most of the Dream stans were little kids, but I somehow didn't want to believe it, perhaps I thought it was an exaggeration, since it's often said about Minecraft too, but I've met many adult Minecraft players. However, in this case, I hope they were kids, because it would make more sense for them to simplify the situation like that. If they were not kids, then their obsession is/was _extremely_ blinding and hindering on a very unhealthy level.
Waiting to tell his audience that he did, in fact, have an illegal mod pack that enabled him to break the spreedrun record until the controversy calmed down was a really bad idea. If I was in his shoes and had discovered that, I think I would have apologized immediately and then set up a new speedrun recording. I would even make sure to record going through Minecraft files to ensure the public that he isn't cheating. It's much better than putting on a mask to make yourself look authentic.
Idk if he was banned from speedrunning as a whole but imo he should. I don't hate him or anything but since he did cheat and denied it many times I think that's only fair.
@@putent9623 I say give him a second chance. He may have just been doing it out of fear to keep his rep up. I'm sure that he's matured some since then. After that, give him the 🪓
@@dennis_s nah I don't really care, I don't think his a bad person but I'm also not sure if I can fully believe his story about what he did so honestly I think the fairest conclusion is to ban him, although I do guess most of his runs are legit and his actually a top competitor.
@@putent9623 dream has actually stated himself that he still speedruns, but he doesnt submit them to the charts anymore. the state of his relationship w the mods is pretty chilly so im guessing they just dont wanna be in each others business anymore
@@dennis_s Tbh, I'd say the second chance he had was when he realized that he had made a mistake, yet still pushed his misguided narrative, even though the other side was burdened with "proving" he cheated mathematically, and did so beyond a reasonable doubt. Banning him for at least a few months/years will bring home that that kind of gaslighting to disrupt fair runs just to save face is not welcome at all.
He only came out with his "apology to his fans" regarding it because he had a direct reason to do so, yet he still managed to address the harm he caused and not only forgo an apology, but instead focused on how stressed and hurt he was because they did their jobs and dared to question his runs integrity (in which they were proven 100% correct). In my opinion that doesn't really evoke regret of ones actions and all harm from them, but instead speaks of regret of getting caught.
I don't much care for Dream. But I kind of do care for his Fandom. I see myself from 10 years ago in them, I constantly bump into them absolutely everywhere online, and I'm continuously impressed by how massive this Fandom apparently is.
I checked AO3, and the highest rated fanfic about Dream/George has the most amount of kudos (=likes) I have ever seen. Ever. Not the most for a CZcamsr, the most of everything. More than any One Direction fanfic, ever. More than any BTS fanfic. More than any Lord of the Rings, star wars, Harry Potter, Supernatural, BBC Sherlock etc. Fanfiction OF ALL TIME.
If it wasn't 50k words long I would have probably read it just to see what the buzz is about lol.
Let me guess, was it called "Heatwaves" lol
@@Chia_Mochia Yes it was. Have you read it? I'd actually be genuinely curious to hear about that.
@@baguettegott3409 idk if this is something u know already but fun fact ! heatwaves is based on the song heatwaves by glass animals and the fic got so popular that the song blew up, trended on tiktok and i think got into the top 100 of something.
also ao3 crashed one time because it updated lmao.
also i've read it and it's pretty good! if you wanna read the full story heatwaves is part of a series called "dreamland" and the next part is called "helium"
@@baguettegott3409 Yes, I've read it! It was one emotional rollercoaster lol
They will probably look back and cringe a lot this is a new generation of Internet users they need to go through this
I’m telling you he’s gonna have some allegations cause he’s giving major creep vibes, for sure he’s messaged fans and probably took advantage of them.
It seems like Minecraft CZcamsr and pedo allegations are like peanut butter and jelly at this point.
this aged perfectly lmfao
THIS AGED LIKE WINE LMAOO