Ligon Duncan: The Invisible Church
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- čas přidán 15. 04. 2015
- Much confusion has resulted and continues to result from misunderstandings regarding the meaning of the visible church, the invisible church, and the relation between the two. In this message, Dr. Ligon Duncan will seek to clarify the meaning of this important biblical doctrine.
This message is from our 2006 National Conference, Bought with a Price: • Jones, Sproul, and Spr...
Purchase this conference on DVD: www.ligonier.org/store/bought-...
Thank you for posting this lecture for us. It is timely to speak of the church. The reformers have five "solas", but if it had been a question at all in that time, they would surely have come up with a sixth: Sola Ecclesia. God bless you for your work.
Many are Called = Church Visible
Few are Chosen = Church Invisible
Why would Jesus called them and then not choose them? Why not just choose them?
*One * Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church
@@fellowshipofthecrown3341 Matthew 7:21-23
@@maximhornby5493 Catholicism is a religion based on Jesus's sacrifice and works for salvation. That isn't what the bible says. We are saved by grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone.
@@mikemccormick9667 thats not what catholic means. The words i used were quoted from the Nicene Creed, which is generally what you use to decide whether you are christian or not. Catholic in this sense is more akin to "universal". It was the term used to designate Orthodox Christians as opposed to all the heretical sects. I used this quote in opposition to the Church Visible-Church Invisible dichotomy, which implies that the Church Visible and Invisible are parallel structures, wherein you can be part of the C.I. and not be part of the C.V.. On the other hand, the correct view is that one is nested within the other. The Church Invisible is within the Church Visible necessarily, otherwise the Church Visible is not the Church. Its preferable to think in terms of Church Organisation vs Church Organism, where the Organism is inside the Organisation
Yes indeedy...God's people will hurt you. That is why you have to stay close to the True Shepherd and His Word. Let God be true and every man a LIAR.
If the Church is the body of Christ, the doctrine of the invisible church is quasi gnostic. How can one's body be invisible? It has never ever been a teaching of the Church.
No, you're missing the point of what is meant by the "invisible church" entirely. You've misrepresented Ligon Duncan.
All that is meant by the "invisible church" is that the true redeemed church consists only of actual believers. In any given local congregation (and around the world) there are many who outwardly identify as Christian who are not actually saved, who are not actually redeemed, who are actually on their way to hell and not to heaven. These unredeemed individuals are not truly a part of God's redeemed church. Rather, it is those who have actually been redeemed by Christ who are saved. THUS, the "visible" church, that is, those you can see with the eyes who claim to know Christ as Savior may not all by a part of the true church, it is only those who are actually saved, the "invisible" church consist only of the saved.
And YES, this is taught in the Bible. For example, in any church gathering, there will be true "sheep" along with "wolves". The true sheep are the invisible (spiritually redeemed) church, the wolves are not. The wolves visibly identify with the ship, but are false. Likewise, you have in a congregation the wheat and the tares. Only the wheat are the true "invisible" church. The tares may "visibly" look a bit like the what, but they are not a part of the true, spiritual "invisible church.
Jesus also made it clear that there are many who outwardly profess to be Christians who are not saved and will discover on the day of judgment that they are lost...thus, they were only a part of the church visibly (outwardly), but not spiritually (or inwardly/invisibly). That's the point of the lanuage behind the "visible/invisible".
And no, there is NOTHING Gnostic about this.
And yes, this has been the teaching of the church BOTH in the Bible and throughout church history, so, you're are simply wrong at every point.
Read the Bible
The Bible never uses the term visible church or invisible church. But the idea of the visible church versus the invisible church is a natural result of a biblical understanding of the doctrine of salvation. The visible church is the expression of Christianity that people can see: the gathering and practices of the individuals in various church buildings on Sundays. The invisible church is the true church, which only God can see: born-again believers, past, present, and future. Because not everyone who attends church or performs religious deeds is saved, the visible church includes unbelievers. The invisible church is comprised of the redeemed and sealed by God.
In some ways, the concept of the visible/invisible church correlates with the concept of the local/universal church. The difference is that the local church refers to one congregation who gathers in one building; the visible church encompasses all local churches, everywhere.
The visible church is easily identified by its religious trappings: church buildings, ministers or clergy, calendars, ordinances, ceremonies, denominations, etc. When someone says, “I go to Such-and-such Church,” he is referring to the visible church. When someone drives by a lake and sees some people being baptized, they are looking at part of the visible church.
To identify with the visible church is to accept the label of “Christian,” but, without a spiritual transformation initiated by the Spirit of God, the label is only that. Nominal Christianity fills a large part of the visible church. Demas forsook Paul “because he loved this world” (2 Timothy 4:10); Demas was part of the visible church for a while, but he was never part of the invisible church, and he eventually showed his true colors (see 1 John 2:19).
The invisible church, comprised of all the redeemed, is spiritual and heavenly and not of this world (John 18:36). As Jesus explained, “The coming of the kingdom of God is not something that can be observed, nor will people say, ‘Here it is,’ or ‘There it is,’ because the kingdom of God is among you” (Luke 17:20-21).
The invisible church does not need the physical accoutrements that make the visible church visible. Take away the liturgy from the visible church, and the invisible church will remain. Religious ceremony makes no difference to the invisible church: “Neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything; what counts is the new creation” (Galatians 6:15). Burn the church building down, and the believers still comprise the church.
The visible things of this world, including church denominations, church buildings, hymnals, prayer books, and pews, will all pass away because they are temporary (1 Corinthians 7:31). The invisible things of God will never pass away because they are as eternal as heaven (Luke 12:33).
In John 4:20, the Samaritan woman at the well told Jesus, “You Jews claim that the place where we must worship is in Jerusalem.” In our terms, the Samaritan woman was speaking of the visible church. Jesus answered by defining the invisible church: “Believe me, a time is coming when you will worship the Father neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem. . . . A time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in the Spirit and in truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks. God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit and in truth” (John 4:21-24).
All of us should make God “visible” to the world in which we live, “for it is God who works in you to will and to act in order to fulfill his good purpose” (Philippians 2:13). To do that, we must be part of the invisible church, “made . . . alive with Christ . . . and seated . . . with him in the heavenly realms” (Ephesians 2:5-6).
I hear no sound.
This is the Mistery that only Few understand. Because the Spirit is Invisible, the Church is Invisible.